Hey guys. That's Alex. Or "weeds-or-wildflowers". Or "insider in orbit" . As some of you know me or remember from twitter or deartv forum.
I just wanted to say i needed to step back from walking dead series and fandom completely because it crushed me bad all recent months were too much misery to add to my already progressive depression and mental health ruined by war in my country. Please tell those like Yana or Amal or Klarka or Valentina or Dying light or anyone from deartv or twitter friends who might be worried that im ok physically and i just deleted twitter and logged out everywhere because being caryler in this fandom became unbearable.
I thought it's gonna be less painful after some time but no. Im not angry or furious or desperated anymore but i think it turned into infinite sadness and i don't think I'll ever overcome this whole "experience" that happened with caryl spinoff with something else. And i don't think ill gonna be as invested ever with anything else.
As to sdcc...i got some thoughts after lurking here and watching whole panel.
Couldn't miss seeing Melissa and as result watched whole thing.
Whole speculating on my part coming from my limited knowledge about some events behind the scenes and official statements or what was said.
:
- i was happy to see Melissa again. She looked healthy and that's what important. I hope she's as happy as possible in her personal life beyond what happened with spinoff and amc
- she was so sad but im not sure and don't think there's only one reason but mix of things. She was overwhelmed by show ending but at same time it seemed she was uncomfortable.
- yeah during some moments Norman reached to her she seemed uncomfy but i could interpret wrongly.
- but also seemed like she was warming up to him during other moments. So generally mcreedus got me in mixed feelings. I don't feel like im good character judge when it comes to people's body language and actions especially with someone like Norman and Melissa. But impression i got that he either tried to be "seen" as good supportive friend or he really felt guilty and needy for Melissa's support or both. So maybe Melissa's underwhelmed replies to him was her trying to keep distance because she didn't know how sincere he was. As many of us.
- that leads me to speculation that 80% of rumours were truth.
I speculate that's what happened:
1. After fallout of Daryl and Carol bonus episodes especially Carol one, amc decided to change spinoff course and form. And they also started to think about options.
2. Kang " got called to the carpet" by amc and she made quick and sketchy changes into s11 script or at least A part removing some daleah, possible Carol/Leah and caryl interactions out of the picture. Leaving reapers arc almost fully to drive plot.
3.i think in the end of the year caryl spinoff still supposed to happen and Kang was still showrunner. Last time Norman was on noticeable liking spree and public caryl support he posted on December 31st caryl tweet. I believe it was still happening. Then something happened which i believe was his sheldue getting filled and his fiance getting hers that created conflict for Norman to get everything he planned fulfilled. That's where i believe first talks about time/location changes started.
4. Talking about richonne and Rick movies i believe in February Gimple and Kang already worked on bringing them back not through movies but other type of project. Kang who didn't seem to talk about richonne/Michonne since her leaving eventually made huge thread on twitter about richonne even reaching to SG to promote couple in most desirable way for richonne fans possible (SG is much known and opened richonne fanboy)
5. I believe when Andrew visited set in the end of February that's when things became more concrete for richonne and neggie spinoff and less concrete for caryl and that's when sheldue issues became solid problem as Norman was bringing it to amc knowledge he can't do spinoff in that time on that place because he needs to be with his family in France.
6.that's when i believe amc started to think about options without Carol as new caryl spinoff format was already about driving plot to "endgame" point which is Rick reuniting with everyone.
7. I think mcreedus couldn't solve issue and that made their relationship on set more tense that led to fight on set which i believe wasn't as dramatic as some think but it pushed Melissa to step back from spinoff, maybe phrase that she needs a break was said by her as she got tired from all difficulties and misfortunes that came to them and fight with Norman only pushed her to final decision.
8. Richonne fan who i wont name but i guess many know who that was. Who originally found out about caryl spinoff cancellation and upcoming richonne spinoff from Nicotero got it from him during Walker Stalker. GN said at that moment already that caryl spinoff was cancelled because Melissa either "got tired" or "needed a break". So grain of truth is there, in that " she needs a break"
- here i don't think she really wanted a break from playing Carol rather than she needed break from drama behind the scenes. By this speculated order of events i don't think Norman stayed as excited as before after February and i don't think he desired things how they happened and don't think he just wanted to kick her out of his orbit.
- i believe he had idea things gonna work out but they didn't and Melissa saying final no was taken personal and touched his ego.
- following reaction from fandom and carylers especially made it only worse. And his sm childish sometimes deranged activity has some proofs of what i wrote happened.
- here please hear me out. Im not justifying his behaviour or anyone else's. Im trying to understand what drove this man actions from things i observed.
- so i think amc sacrificed Melissa/Carol more easily cuz their contracts weren't equal and they didn't want to lose more losing Norman. His spinoff is still under question.
- Norman would be ok without filming his spinoff but just taking money from contract but amc wouldn't. So here why they made this spinoff in certain location with such unsatisfying conditions for them. It still will be better paid than no spinoff.
- as for future idk what in amc plans regarding caryl. By things i saw at sdcc i don't think things are certain in any way. Caryl either gonna get their ending (happy or else) in the main show or Carol supposed to appear somewhere in twdu just to wrap her and caryl story if Norman not straight out lying there. Melissa's skeptical expression is either her knowing caryl story ends on main show (which can be flashforward as i said) or she just skeptical because she doesn't trust Norman and his words anymore and after that happened if there will be possibility to bring caryl back together as their separate show or her cameo she's not certain they won't fool her and fans again. And even if they wouldn't be able to fool her, fans will be gone already or just won't buy any promises and she won't take advantage to promise anything herself anymore because now she knows she doesn't have any voice to keep promise.
- as for richonne spinoff and else i really don't care. Couple years ago i shipped them and cared about characters when they were still on the show. But now? Don't care about AL or Rick. Richonne dynamic is established romantic but is underwhelming for me personally. Not because established but it seems became stale and Kind of very trivial in bad sense as can be with ship under Gimples direction through years. AK was bit better but still doesn't come to me as interested as she was with caryl during season 10. So i really don't know what they are gonna to explore with richonne there.
Neggie is "chewed plate " of mutual hate which doesn't develop characters so i don't see point of their spinoff either.
Sure these fanbases have lots of invested people for making couple seasons but from art and creative point i dont see point of these spinoff existence.
Caryl was only one that kept me and had most sense. Tales has interesting concept and showrunner whom eps on twd i respect but i wont be watching that any longer.
- that said i want to watch last episodes but only to find out that caryl ended up happily ever after. Even if there stupid travels to Europe and dumb side missions in between.
I just don't believe in quality and sincere love from twd creators to keep things realistic and true to characters.
- as someone said caryl belongs to fans
You all guys are amazing passionate people from all corners of the world. Without you there wouldn't be even possibility considered to continue their dynamic.
Gimple never cared much about caryl since season 6 and im not certain about Kang ( really don't know what that woman really thinks and feels regarding them) so caryl never had much chances if there weren't fans imo.
I remember before they introduced Leah, in same month AK implied that caryl can happen only on spinoff but even that under question. So maybe just maybe we really didn't lose in this.
We don't know what these bosses supposed to do with them in spinoff.
When AL left show and movies were announced Gimple couldn't stop talk how he hopes Daryl will meet Rick again. He never talked about Carol in same way as SG didn't care much about her in twdu back then but i can be wrong. He could plan to give caryl space in their spinoff just to develop them into romance and kill her later just before Daryl will find Rick. Or he just didn't see importance of Carick relationship in general. Just thoughts how things could be unfaithful in way we can't imagine but also there could be other misfortunes in way of that spinoff later during production.
- i just want caryl fans to find peace and sort of happiness even if Melissa won't ever appear as Carol in twdu.
You all deserve better. Please don't fight each other and try to forgive other fans who mistreated Melissa, Carol and our fandom for years. Their souls are shallow, fact they get something or are happy because you're unhappy doesn't mean they will be happy as this in some time in future. I don't wish bad to them i think we really need to forgive them and each other and ppl like SG and Norman more even if it's too hard. But i don't believe this twdu ship gonna be good for long sail.
Please stay healthy sane and wish good miracles to happen for everyone of you and our ship ❤️
