#tws meta

[amarriageoftrueminds]

Okay, so in Captain America: the Winter Soldier Zola is in the scene where Bucky was captured by Hydra, and considering the fact that Zola was captured on the train and so wouldn’t have been able to capture Bucky, that means that scene had to have taken place after the events of Captain America the first Avenger. And considering that Bucky would have probably died if he wasn’t captured fairly soon after falling, does that mean that Zola was freed only days to at most probably weeks after everyone thought Steve died?

My take on that moment was that Bucky was kind of hallucinating and amalgamating / blurring together different memories.

So like that might've been a memory of Zola from first being tortured in Krausberg, and/or from much later on blended with that memory (from after they've both been shipped off somewhere else in Europe, post-Valkyrie-mission, but before Zola has been officially employed by SHIELD and it's made front page news. So, eg. March - August 1945).

Because the timeline doesn't exactly make sense there, does it?

My personal headcanon is that Bucky was found by Germans (not Russians, because Russians form no part of CATFA and wouldn't have been anywhere near it). And it was they who communicated their find immediately with US Hydra (now including Zola), since they could already see that the war in Europe was as good as over.

So like... yes, maybe Bucky was expeditiously brought to the UK (where Zola was, instead of the other way around) since Zola was in allied hands, and maybe his first WS horrors at the hands of Hydra... actually went down in London or somewhere near? Maybe within the War Rooms/bunker SHIELD HQ?

Extra angst factors:

His buddies the Howlies would've been in London at the same time, drinking to Steve and him on VE-Day, with no idea Bucky was still alive and within walking distance. 😭

It's always been a headcanon of mind of half-zonked captive Bucky waking up and hearing English and American voices and thought that meant he was safe, so his earliest chances for escape, he couldn't and didn't take due to both illness and the mistaken belief he was in the hands of 'friends.'

[amarriageoftrueminds]

Gosh, you know what always gets me? That Steve is so sure, like so certain, about Bucky’s love for him.

- He doesn’t know you. He will.

- If he’s this far gone, Nat, I should be the one to bring him in. Why? Because I’m the one least likely to die trying.

- She tell you to stay out of it? Might have a point. He’d do it for me.

And it's not just Bucky's love he believes in; he has faith in Bucky's fundamentally non-violent nature, beneath WS conditioning, and that he's the one best suited to bring it out (with the power of True Love. 😭)

What pisses me off is how the films have people who really should know better (Nat and Sam) questioning both Bucky's innocence and Steve's judgement.

The films think Steve waking up in a hospital after fighting TWS means he was wrong to believe in Bucky; whereas, in fact, if he'd really been wrong, he would've woken up in the Morgue.

As it were. 😅

[eatingcroutons]

Hi! I love your discussions about Hydra ideology! It bothers me how people simply say "nazi" to avoid any discussion."They're evil, if you ask why you're defending them". But understanding doesn't mean judging, and looking for causes means looking for prevention. So thank you for your analysis! And about fascism, I recently read a very interesting article; the author, Umberto Eco, was an important Italian intellectual who just died: www(.)pegc(.)us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf Thoughts?

Hi! About Hydra / NSA parallels. Couldn't sleep so I read your meta tag. As one does! What thrills me about Redford playing Pierce is that he was also in my favorite flick of all time, Sneakers. Where the all-seeing NSA are cast as antagonists (or so we think). It's so very post-USSR pre-9/11, but it is a head-trip when you consider what he and Kingsley went on to do in MCU. Meta like bowls of spaghetti, everywhere! T O O M A N Y S E C R E T S

So, I’m assuming both these are from the same anon -- thanks for the messages, and thanks for the link to the article!

Sorry for taking so long to get around to reading it; it’s a great piece about the common features that define fascism, and the importance of recognising it in different forms. I believe it was @stoatsandwich who first raised the question of whether HYDRA would actually fall into a definition of fascism, almost a year ago now. I’m too exhausted to do it right now, but I think it’d be really interesting to go through and consider what we know of HYDRA in terms of to what extent it manifests each of these features.

(Although to be honest, my first thoughts when reading the article were that several of the features listed are disturbingly reminiscent of a lot of US political rhetoric, especially from people like Donald Trump. THAT would be an even more interesting comparison to explore...)

I have also seen Sneakers! And yeah, I still love that they cast Redford as Pierce after the roles he’s played in movies like that and Three Days of the Condor.

Also, I’m ridiculously flattered that you stayed up reading my meta tag of all things. You’re welcome here any time, anon xD

[eatingcroutons]

just-tea-thanks:

Military knows military, it’s so weird. We’re fucking eerie. I don’t know if I can describe it. Basic trains you to move differently than other human beings. I can pick a soldier out of a concert crowd on instinct (and have.)  Here are some tips from your Steve to your Sam: Steve saw Sam’s regulation hair cut; Steve recognized how Sam ran like a service member: stride wide, chest high, hands in fists because we are trained to run like that; Steve saw that Sam runs with calf socks and they are fully pulled up bc that’s uniform; Steve saw the way that Sam eyeballs his surrounding areas like he might always be on the verge of attack; Steve saw Sam’s water bottle or shirt with a unit logo (yup we have them we’re dorks); Steve saw that Sam was wearing a fairly recognizable running “uniform”, he had spandex on under his shorts, his socks were above the ankle and he had something reflective on; Steve saw Sam do some fairly typical military stretches like the bend-and-reach before he started running, or saw that he ended his run with 2 minutes of sit ups and push ups (or started it).  I hope this helps Crou! Like I said, military can sniff itself out by instinct; Steve might not even know how he knew. Half the time I don’t. We move differently.

flightinflame​ Tea’s answer as requested!

[ilikeithereinsidemyhead]

You know what makes me really uncomfortable?

That moment in CA:TWS when Steve is mad at Natasha and is trying to get answers out of her, so he pushes her into that stairwell(?) and grabs her arms and shakes her.

Now, don't get me wrong. I know it wasn't like a hugely violent moment or whatever and the Russo commentary stated that this was supposed to show that Steve viewed Nat as an equal, which was why he got physical, but...

I just can't help but cringe at that.

Whether or not Natasha is his equal PHYSICALLY is debatable (we know she can take care of herself, but this version of the black widow doesn't have the super serum, right?), but even if she were, the fact that Steve got so frustrated that he shoved, grabbed, and shook his teammate is, what, supposed to be okay? Because Nat could arguably kick his ass, too?

I mean, besides the fact that I think these characters could just TALK to each other regardless of how angry and frustrated they are, I sort of see it as, because someone has so much power (in this case, being extremely physically strong) they should be very aware of the responsibility that places on their shoulders and use it the right way. You know, the “great power, great responsibility" bit.

I didn't view it as a highly charged moment between equals, I thought it came across as needlessly and uncomfortably violent.

[eatingcroutons]

Advice for US servicemen being sent to the UK in the Second World War:

BRITISH WOMEN AT WAR. A British woman officer or non-commissioned officer can--and often does--give orders to a man private. The men obey smartly and know it is no shame. For British women have proven themselves in this way. They have stuck to their posts near burning ammunition dumps, delivered messages afoot after their motorcycles have been blasted from under them. They have pulled aviators from burning planes. They have died at the gun posts and as they fell another girl has stepped directly into the position and "carried on." There is not a single record in this war of any British woman in uniformed service quitting her post or failing in her duty under fire.

Now you understand why British soldiers respect the women in uniform. They have won the right to the utmost respect. When you see a girl in khaki or air-force blue with a bit of ribbon on her tunic--remember she didn't get it for knitting more socks than anyone else in Ipswich.

[eatingcroutons]

(about Bucky dying)- well, apparently, Smithsonian exhibit is a breeding ground for controversy- not only it has 2 different years for Bucky's death, they have 2 years for Bucky's date of birth! Which is, I guess, simply Marvel not doing their job well (judging by their translation of a russian phrase that WS says on the bridge).

[relevant post]

Haha yeah, when I transcribed the Smithsonian exhibit I spent SO DAMN LONG staring at that top date trying to figure out why it didn't look like a 7. The date at the bottom was very clear though, so I just assumed the weirdness at the top was due to crappy video quality and put it down as 1917.

Clearly someone at the Smithsonian didn't do their job very well.

[eatingcroutons]

a-singer-of-songs replied to your post “a singer of songs replied to your post: "A Fallen Comrade" This has...”

In the comics he isn't immediately made into the Winter Soldier, so maybe they're going that route? I'm not sure. Maybe they just didn't notice their own timeline inconsistencies AND WE'LL NEVER KNOW and write lots of fanfiction about it instead.

I'm not up to that point in the comics yet but as I understand it in that case Bucky fell into frozen water/ice when he died, then Hydra discovered and revived his body some years later. He didn't have any of his original memories and only got them back thanks to Steve invoking Deus Ex Cosmic Cube.

I'm totally up for all the writing of fanfiction though :D