#valaquenta

[readinginithilien]

According to the Silmarillion/Valaquenta Sauron was less evil than Morgoth only in that he followed another. Morgoth held him back, evidently. Morgoth is more powerful, obviously, but Sauron is easily his equal as a villain as soon as he becomes one in his own right.

[transfemfaramir]

i very much enjoy depictions of oromë with animal traits. i think that is a very cool design choice. oromë is my favourite vala and i always love to see art of him. HOWEVER... i would like to provide a perspective i rarely see acknowledged: that oromë is a god who symbolises man's stewardship over the natural world. depictions of him as a very human figure, with all the trappings of civilisation, make a lot more sense to me, considering his role.

oromë's association with animals is all about domestication. he rides a horse, he keeps trained hounds, and he even has cattle. the hunter-god identity could be animalistic; obviously animals hunt. but oromë hunts with weapons, and trains animals to serve him. therefore he has dominion over beasts, rather than being himself beastlike. this dominion is peaceful, not abusive or controlling or unnatural. domestication is seen as good and natural.

on the wilderness as his domain: oromë is called 'the lord of forests', and loves trees, and the lay of leithian calls him 'the forest-god'. but he doesn't live in the forest! he rules over the forests, but he lives in a house; the book of lost tales says it's in the city of valmar (a city can be seen as the opposite of the wilderness). it's full of spears and bows and knives and hunting trophies: all signs of civilisation.

most interesting maybe is the living trees that grow inside. this blends oromë's house into a mixture of the forest and a structure: peaceful cohabitation of nature and civilisation.

the women oromë is associated with also have this theme of peaceful harmony between the wild and civilisation. nessa his sister runs in the forests with deer, but returns to valimar to dance on lawns (lawns that oromë himself 'culled' from his forest glades- hmm!) vána his wife tends to gardens, and picks flowers; we could see this as the feminine version of dominion over nature. oromë is the master of animals and tames them to his will, while vána turns wild flora into cultivated gardens.

so when i think of oromë, i think of furs, leathers, and arrows, not teeth, claws, and antlers. he symbolises a belief that mankind (using this word as a catch-all for non-divine beings) should live in peaceful dominion over the natural world, so he must be man-shaped. hunting is part of that dominion, even though it is associated with death and predation.

after all, oromë's role as huntsman only becomes threatening when morgoth lies and tells the elves that the dark rider will hunt and eat them, not the animals that are his sanctioned prey. and what prey is celegorm hunting when huan, hound of oromë, leaves him for good?

[almathoraleydis]

Some Maiar

Some older designs for the different Maiar.

Curumo, Arien, and Uinen.

[tastethebloodofmeatthawsmoth]

"Mightier than Este is Nienna, sister of the Feanturi; she dwells alone. She is acquainted with grief, and mourns for every wound that Arda has suffered in the marring of Melkor. So great was her sorrow, as the Music unfolded, that her song turned to lamentation long before its end, and the sound of mourning was woven into the themes of the World before it began.

But she does not weep for herself; and those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope.

...all those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." - JRR Tolkien, The Silmarillion

I liked her cameo in The Rings of Power.

[eri-pl]

Silm reread part 2

I want an English text... Nvm, I shall go buy one eventually.

Valaquenta

It's not "valenquenta"? Oops. Another name I misspelled.

So, Manwë and Varda don't see/hear everything (except powerfully hidden by Melkor or Ungoliant). Just more than anyone else. Which is still a lot, but less than I thought.

Ulmo stopped hanging out with other Valar when they made Valinor. I get him. His material form is terryfying and I'm not clear on how humanoid it is. Also, he does have some canon elements of looks. Plus, he seems better informed than Manwë and Varda, because water does spy for him.

Aulë's Melkor-induced burnout is canon. Yavanna canonically wears green when manifesting. Estë wears grey. Nienna visiting Mandos ofted to do therapy is canon too. Tulkas also has canon looks (ruddy, gold hair, beard); Nessa canonically wears her hair loose. Vana is Yavanna's younger sister, I forgot that part.

Ossë is for shallow seas, which probably restricts his ship-drowning ability to near-shore sailors. this explains well why Ar-Pharazon's fleet reached Aman. Melian is aligned to Vana and Estë, I forgot that too. (I thought Irmo, because she lived in Lórien)

Capital D Darkness again — this time meaning Morgoth's …evilness, I think. I'm not gonna comment about Feanor making the oath in context of this meaning, because I can't say anything polite.

[atane-is-here]

The meeting of Melkor and Mairon during the early days

He descended upon Arda in power and in majesty greater than any other of the Valar, as a mountain wading in the sea with its head above the clouds, clad in ice, and crowned in smoke and fire. And in the eyes of Melkor was a light that withered as with heat and pierced as with a deadly cold.

[velvet4510]

Who is your favorite of the Atanatar (the 8 greatest of the Valar)?

Manwë

Varda

Ulmo

Yavanna

Aulë

Mandos

Nienna

Oromë

Voting ended onMay 12, 2024

[edennill-archived]

Interesting element in the Valaquenta: while this fandom has more or less decided on Morgoth being older than Manwë (in so far as it is possible for beings created before time), and while I think I can see where this comes from (Morgoth's seeming fixation on making people believe they will be usurped by younger siblings which might seem to point to him having persuaded himself that's what happened between them and other nice parallels), it explicitly says here that they were "coeval", meaning "having the same age or date of origin; contemporary" (source: a simple Google search)...

I wonder if the other popular fanon of them being created the first of all the Ainur has any source in the text... I don't think it's contradicted anywhere though.

If they were, Varda was second or close; I'm not accepting any corrections. This serves the additional benefit of her feeling personally betrayed by Morgoth, since she would have known him pretty closely before he became evil incarnate.