Today I'm going to walk you through the cluster fuck of Toriyama not paying attention to what he writes from the Trunks arc to the epilogue of the Perfect Cell arc.
Reminder that I divide the "Android Saga" in 4 arcs:
Trunks arc (arrival of Frieza to 3yg training),
Android arc (until the time machine is discovered)
Imperfect Cell arc (until Cell absorbs 18)
Perfect Cell arc (+ epilogue of Trunks killing imperfect Cell)
I will also pull Toei and Daizenshu content if needed just to show how bad it gets, BUT that's just to enhance my argument. Everything here is manga-deductible without extra context or content.
As I've shown in the link above, the manga implies 4 timelines:
Forgotten timeline (Cell kills Trunks and steals his time machine),
Lost timeline (the timeline that dead!Trunks traveled to, which did not have a Cell pop in the middle of its Android Saga, otherwise Trunks would've known about Cell),
Future Timeline (the one we know and see, Trunks traveled to a uni where Cell traveled to first, so there's changes and Cell pops up in the Android saga),
Main Timeline (the one we know and follow, to which Cell and Trunks traveled to),
Let's go into details about dates and math and everything first. (under the read more because LONG)
When Future Trunks discovers dead!Trunks' time machine, he states that it comes from age 788, which is 3 years from where he comes from (which means he comes from 785), and that the Machine landed here "4 years ago". 4 years ago was about one year before Trunks first came (aka one year before Meca Frieza stuff).
During the first trip, Trunks states he comes from 20 years into the future.
That means during his first trip, he went from 784/785 to 764.
We also know he's 17 at this point and "will be born in 2 and a half years"
(Baby Trunks is supposed to be ~6 months old by May 12th, 767, so "I warn in 764, I'll be born in 2.5 years, so I was born in 766" works. Ignoring the wikis about Trunks' birthday being June and Future Trunks' birthday being in November, it doesn't matter here, we just need the years))
For Trunks to be 17 during his first trip, he needs to travel from 784 (before his 18th birthday). So by the time he comes back the second time, it needs to be in 785 (so he is 18!); since it takes 8 months to charge the machine (Trunks the Story manga chapter), that works out.
So in terms of trips, we have:
Trunks (both versions) : (early-mid) 784 to 764
Trunks (both versions): (early-ish) 785 to May 12th 767
Cell: 788 to 763
(handy recap sheet)
At the time, for Toei, there were only two Timelines (aka it was both multiverse theory AND dynamic time travel theory, because Trunks becoming aware of Cell who killed him means Trunks isn't killed by Cell... yeah it's all sorts of EHH ??):
(Toei pamphlet for the Super Android 13 movie)
(animedia 1992-1993, "Dragon Ball Z across time special, new year summary")
Anyway, you'd think this would be fine right? The image of Cell killing Trunks while he still had his sword (which he shouldn't since he broke it on 18's arm he never used it again in canon) is anime filler, we're all good.
Except... no. This fucking panel right here. Cell explains "(the machine/bots collecting dna) could've gotten Trunks cells but didn't because we had enough Saiyan cells".
Cell supposedly comes from a timeline where GOKU killed Frieza and Cold. But this god forsaken panel contradicts that. (of course it's just that Tori forgot, but we are DB fans, we take things seriously and word of god of the manga is supreme and can't be wrong)
This means that THIS particular version of Cell doesn't come from the Forgotten Timeline.
The Cell we know and love/hate comes from a timeline in which a future Trunks killed Frieza and Cold, BUT everything still went to shit (Goku + gang dying, dead!Trunks traveling to the past, and coming back to destroy the Androids).
In this timeline, Bulma met Future Trunks (who killed Cold and Frieza) in 764, presumably the gang got all the warnings like in the main timeline, but everyone STILL died. So she invented the Time Machine to send her Trunks to the past (perhaps with different instructions so as to not repeat the mistakes of the Future Trunks she saw 20 years prior).
Here's the thing. There is a way for this timeline to exist. You "just" gotta work on the postulate that "each time there's a time travel to the past, a new branch is created". And "if the time machine travels back in time a second time, it lands in the timeline it first branched out unless it travels back further in time". Rephrased: The "784 to 764" trip created a new branch in 764. The "785 to 767" trip landed in that new 764 branch. However the "788 to 763" trip created a whole new branch in 763.
The Time Machine that was piloted by dead!Trunks actually "traveled further back in time", creating an earlier "branch"... which is why Trunks noticed changes, including Goku's late arrival (or Frieza's earlier arrival, we don't know).
Yes, because Future Goku did not use Instant Transmission to fight Frieza and Cold. We know he didn't because Future Bulma had the coordinates where Goku landed, which is how Future Trunks got said coordinates. If Goku had IT to fight Frieza and Cold, Bulma wouldn't have known where the pod was going to land 3 hours later.
So timelines and where does Cell come from? Well you need a timeline from the Branch that started in 764 (with a Future Trunks' arrival to kill Frieza and Cold) but in which everyone died to the Androids, and in which, when Trunks traveled back home, he was able to destroy the Androids...
Anyway here's my final recap of all the timelines in Z, in which "one time travel is one interference creating a new branch". And this is how we can see where Cell comes from :D
This opens a realm of possibilities!!
Did a version of Trunks stay in the past, during his first trip and got a wish to Shenron to have a way to destroy his androids, so he didn't come back in 767 and didn't grow strong at all? Did the future trunks that warned against the Androids but that timeline still went to shit approached the problem differently?? who knows! Time for fanfics and doujins I guess :D
So I bought this SF Magazine from September 1st, 1984, because "omg first Goku print??" (look at him he's SO CUTE) and actually found good Black rep in manga? Like, over 40 years ago?!
This fucking panel right here is what breaks the entire timelines and time travel situations in Dragon Ball.
Let me know in the replies and reblogs if you'd like an in depth analysis as to why! That's going to be a LONG article (without even talking about DBS, but DBS only duplicates the madness! XD )
Woke: Tama (or Scratch), the Capsule Corp pet and employee.
Bespoke: The reason why Vegeta stayed at Capsule Corp, fearing Tama is one of Beerus' minions keeping an eye on him for some reason and remembering his childhood terror.
Galaxy Brain: Vegeta got it wrong. Beerus is Tama's minion, not the other way around, and He and Panchy are retired Angel and God of Destruction. Neither ever age, they're immortal, and they're far too relaxed and resilient to everything to be regular Earthling inhabitants....
Babidi arrives with Dabura, Trunks gets basic training by Shin and Kibito, who both die against Dabura, but Trunks kills Dabura and Babidi so no Buu (but the egg is still there...)
A few years later, "Goku Black" (D) arrives, recruits the local Zamasu (C ), and they do the thing.
Trunks flees to the past (to Timeline 5, our original canon main timeline). Depending on whether you follow Manga or Anime continuities there's 2 or 3 back and forths.
Trunks, Goku (E) and Vegeta (E) come back, deal with Zamasu (C ) and Goku Black (D), and Zeno (C ) yeets that timeline.
Timeline 4:
This is Main Timeline until the end of the Universe 6 stuff.
Zamasu (D), after seeing the Universe 6 stuff, kills Goten and Chichi after stealing Goku's body. He becomes Goku Black (D)
Knowing Beerus would get on his ass if he stayed, "Goku Black" flees across time and space to find a timeline where there's no Beerus: the Future Timeline (because Shin died in the Dabura/Babidi situation).
We don't know what happens after that in this timeline. Chichi (D) and Goten (D) are rezed and Goku (D), in Zamasu's body, is confused af lol? That TOP sounds interesting though. (There’s conflicting info about whether Zamasu in Goku’s body killed Goku in Zamasu’s body, the manga and anime differ quite a bit).
Timeline 5:
Trunks (C ) arrives after the Universe 6 stuff, creating a divergence for Timeline 4 because of his "warning against the future threat" (tho he doesn't know it actually comes from the main timeline)
Beerus and co deal with the local Zamasu (E) (might as well now that they know about it!)
After dealing with the threat in Timeline 3, Goku (E), Vegeta (E) and Trunks (C ) come back with Zeno (C ). TOP and co go on as usual, then Moro, Granolah, DBSSH, etc.
Timeline 6:
Using the time rings, Beerus (C ) goes to a previous point in the Timeline 3 (to universe 10) and seals immortal Zamasu (F). His intervention creates another Future Timeline: timeline 6.
Trunks (C ) and Mai (C ) travel to a pre-Dabura/Babidi version of this Timeline and "start over" by making sure Shin (F) and Beerus (F) don't die in that Timeline. But there's two Trunkses and two Mais (C and F) in this timeline.
So in we have these timelines:
Timeline 1 (Forgotten Timeline): Trunks killed by Cell, only Bulma remains, probably destroyed by Babidi/Buu?
Timeline 2 (Lost Timeline): A timeline in which the Androids were dealt with in the Android Saga, but Cell didn't appear. Goku didn't die of the virus nor by Cell's explosion, so... all bets are off.
Timeline 3 (Future Timeline): A timeline that was erased by Zeno.
Timeline 4 (Confused Timeline): All of Z and all of DBS until Universe 6 is identical. the native Zamasu stole Goku's body from this timeline and fled to Timeline 3. We have no idea what happened there, afterwards.
Timeline 5 (Main DBS Timeline): What we read/watch in DBS; this Timeline is the same as the previous one except Trunks (from Timeline 3) came back and that landing created a divergence from timeline 4.
Timeline 6 (Clone Timeline / pair of trunks timeline if you prefer lol): this Timeline is created by Beerus from Timeline 5 when he decides to go with the Time Ring to deal with a future version of Zamasu (the Immortal one, not the Goku Black one). It creates a mirror version of Timeline 3, pre-shitstorm. This is the Timeline Trunks and Mai travel to, but they actually chose to arrive before the Babidi situation so Beerus and Shin don't die in that timeline.
Now let's talk some honorifics and ways to address each other in Z ^^
I did a part 1 about how some of them say "I" and what that says about them, please read it!
We all know Japanese culture has a whole lot of emphasis on how people speak to and about each other (it's also pretty common to not say "you" or "he/she", but directly the name of the person, which is a godsend for manga readers as it really helps memorize the names of a vast cast of characters).
Now in Z, honorifics, last names (or lack thereof) and "you" really say a lot about the characters and their relations, sooo here goes a little preview of the whole study (because this will take ages lmao).
First, some "yous". Omae is informal and very guy-like, and either super-close-friendship (Tenshinhan-to-Chaozu), or plain superior/intimidating (Piccolo-to-Gohan, Vegeta-to-Nappa, Nappa-to-gang (omae-tachi for plural)). Kisama and Temee are both used as "you bastard!" rather than actual pronouns in most of DB.
Obviously the most famous use of honorifics in DBZ is Gohan-to-Piccolo: it's always Piccolo-san. Oh and Kami-sama of course.
It's important to note that most characters who consider each other peers at some point drop the honorifics when talking to/about each other (Tenshinhan, Goku, Krilin, Yamcha and Piccolo dropped honorifics about each other early on, but Chaozu still uses -san for Ten-san). Future Trunks gets included in the "no-honorifics" gang early on by experienced fighters, (except Gohan who does call him Trunks-san as he's part of the adult group, and keeps the difference in Super; Trunks-san is the future one, and Trunks-kun is the present one) but he himself tends to keep the honorifics with everyone (including Gohan-san who's only like, 8 at this point!), keeping an "not-belonging" feel.
Speaking of "yous", Vegeta talks to Trunks as kisama (which is also super insulting/derogatory; Piccolo uses it for Goku too) but Gohan uses anata (the polite formal you, when he didn't know his name). When talking about him, but not -to him- Bulma says "this kid" (kono ko), but Gohan says the polite "this person" (kono hito), while the rest of the gang mentioned "aitsu" (that guy), which is more familiar. Clearly establishes dynamics to come!
Speaking of early days, in Dragon Ball, Bulma is angry that Goku calls her Bulma plain and simple (and even adds "omae" to it!), and "since she's older", he should call her Bulma-san, which he does even if it's hard to pronounce at first. But Bulma herself says Son-kun for Goku, which she carried all through to Super (which implies "longtime childhood friends", I mean, Goku's far from a -kun kid at this point). Goku and Krilin both say Bulma-san. And because Goku says Bulma-san, Gohan gets to say it too (and kept it).
Goku and Krilin are both good martial arts students and using proper honorifics for all their teachers and deities (Goku's very consistent with the -sama of Kami, King Kai and so on).
Piccolo is an absolute savage who never uses honorifics, with the notable exception of Shin (which is a big thing, because he doesn't do it for King Kai who complains that he "worked hard to earn the title"). Piccolo calls Goku Son (as he does with everyone else), plain and simple, and calls Gohan just Gohan.
Bulma also shows her magnificent balls by calling Vegeta Vegeta-kun when back from Namek, which is big dick move. They switch to first-name-no-honorifics later on (tbh Vegeta mostly calls her "Woman", but he does straight up say "Bulma" a few times).
Chichi calls Goku, Goku-sa (dropping the n), as per rural customs; it's common for married couples to still use honorifics (especially in arranged marriages).
In other "let's fuck with Vegeta some more", the Ginyu force calls Vegeta Vegeta-chan, which is the humiliating ever; both because they knew Vegeta as a kid, but keep considering him as such. Recoome absolutely destroys him by doing this.
In other "Gohan and Bulma raised Trunks" news, Future Trunks says he's here to meet Son Goku-san, but first addresses him as Son-san then switches to Goku-san, and keeps -san for just about everyone, including his present-parents (father/mother; tou-san and kaa-san, dropping the o- at the beginning; saying "mom" and "dad" is absolute heresy). This contrasts with present Trunks who says papa/mama (and calls Goku, Krilin and co "uncle" (oji-san) as, "older family friend").
And for some other cuteness moments, Gohan is Gohan-kun to Videl, but Videl remains Videl-san for Gohan, because he's polite, awkward and respectful (tho Goten calls them both "big bro/big sis" (with -chan)); Goten also calls Vegeta uncle (oji-san).
That's about it for now, I'll dig in other sections further down the road (especially with the elder characters!)
Future Trunks isn't a good martial artist and that makes sense
A rewrite/rearranged version of a reddit post I made a few weeks ago.
Gonna be controversial of course, but a reminder that our Future Boi is my absolute fave. In this essay, I'll demonstrate why he's a terrible martial artist (and only talk about Z, I'll talk about super later) :p
Let's start with the obvious. Trunks is strong, and the fight he does win, he wins by overpowering straight up, no BS, no warming up, not letting people power up or any of that nonsense (especially in the manga). I mean, yes, he tells them "come at me full strength from the get go because I'm not as kind as Goku", but no extra chances (the anime does give Freeza three shots, because gotta be cool et al, and he does confront face to face instead of a sneak attack, but still).
But Trunks isn't a good martial artist. His training was always terrible.
Training in an apocalyptic world under constant threat isn't exactly a good environment to center your ki, to say the least. Reminder that Future Gohan started training Trunks only when he was around 12-13. So whatever training he got from our absolute Legendary Future Gohan, it was not exactly under good conditions. Stress + interrupted times + often wounded and recovering... And Gohan died soon afterwards.
Now, even in how little training he got, perhaps it was quality training? Nah. Future Gohan's own training stopped after the Namek Saga, give or take whatever he could do between Goku's return and the Androids appearing; Depending on source (and interpretations, Goku died when Trunks was a baby in the Anime special, but Trunks -says- Goku died before he was born (one year after his return from Namek). So at -most- Gohan continued training with a capable mentor until he was 8 (as he was 5-6 in the Namek Saga). So Gohan didn't train Trunks for very long, he did it in less than spectacular circumstances, and Gohan himself wasn't exactly a great theoretical teacher (up to and including training with only one arm...).
So that's 17 yo Trunks' training background.
Now take him to the past; no training when he meets Goku for like five minutes (with neither of them putting their heart into the cool spar), and then he comes back three years afterwards to help with the present-timeline androids.
What training did he get? One year in the Room of infinite bullshit (I mean the HTC), where Vegeta gave him absolutely nothing. Vegeta is a great tactician up to this point, but he's still kind of a dick, and clearly that year taught Trunks nothing but strength increase, as shown by the Grade 3 fiasco. His second year in the HTC, he went in alone, so again, nothing. 19yo Trunks still hasn't gotten any serious martial arts training.
So what to do when confronted with combat? Overpower asap. Trunks doesn't enjoy fighting, Trunks gets shit done, and Trunks is brutal when doing so. Evidence: Future 17, 18 and Imperfect Cell. Note that his body count is actually one of the highest for the whole manga and anime; kill list including Freeza, Cold, 17 and 18 (twice if you count his dead-by-Cell-self) and imperfect Cell; he'd even have gotten Semi-perfect Cell if Vegeta hadn't been a dumbass. Hell he even blasted Super Vegeta out, too. And if we add Super's Buu saga.. But I'm not going to touch on Super.
The movies acknowledge this in an interesting way. His fight against Tenshinhan in the Bojack movie is pure gold. This clash right here; Trunks going for the kick, which Tien blocks and uses his leg to make sure Trunks can't follow up with a punch. Which Tien does. To win this fight, Trunks has to go SSJ and just SLAMS him down. I love every single frame of this fight, and I wish it was reanimated with modern techniques to show the genius of this move (and acknowledging how Tenshinhan is a god damn role model). Win by overpowering.
(you can see this scene right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJucTTTYPtc)
Alternatively, his fight with Kogu has similar issues; especially at the start. He gets easily locked and thrown away by a miscalculated punch attempt, and leaves his guard open quite a couple of times.
Don't get me wrong, Trunks is the only one who actually straight up wins his fight at this stage, actually, and that win is so god damn satisfying. Like seriously, that punch straight up through the guy after the sword break with that music? Hmpf. So good. But again, win by straight up overpowering.
(you can see that fight right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEC2ZWR9860)
So yeah. Give my boy some proper martial arts training. Hell get Vegeta to shine, bond, and show his baby boy some quality fight strategies and analysis. I mean, it makes sense Vegeta didn't do any of that, due to who he was back then, but come on, that second year in the HTC could have been useful (as a way to repair the Grade 3 mistake and make Vegeta attacking Cell in the Cell games much more oof). Vegeta is a tactician and a technique genius. It's mentioned many times until the mid Cell saga (the Saiyan saga fight, the fight with 19 and bluff of 20, his knowledge of Grade 3 but not using of it...). Thankfully fanfics exist and actually dive into that aspect of fucked up (I can't recommend Point of No Return enough, where Trunks lands to Vegeta, Raditz and Nappa before Raditz tries to recruit Goku, seriously please read it).
So where do you think he could've been if he trained with Goku in the Time chamber? Or if Vegeta actually give him the time of the day and actually talked to him or something? Or if he'd went and meet Mr Popo/Korin/Roshi as a kid/teen?
FYI, I do believe why Future Trunks is loved so much is also because of the contrast with his combat persona (take no shit, get shit done) and his actual personality (likes nature, feeds the squirrels, polite, always surrounded by flowers by some reason).
That's it for today. Roast me!
