#vtm gideon

[alohattan]

I didn't know where Lou would even fit in the original meme. Been scratching my head for 15 minutes I kid you not. In the end I said fuck it and just chucked her into a whole new tier thoughts?

[alohattan]

*Silent post*

[alohattan]

Willem and Safia

I know some of yall are probably (most likely) well versed in the lore of bloodlines 2 so I have to ask about this one thing that’s been bothering me

Safia getting mad at Phyre because of Willem’s death. During my subsequent playthroughs I’ve noticed a lot of things, like Safia saying

“He’s not like the others. He was never cutout for this.” Unlike Benny and Ysabella I assume

She clearly cares about Willem. But at the same time the whole strapping dynamites to the chest thing? I could assume Safia didn’t want Phyre finding out but she’s smart enough to come up with other methods rather than the old school “kys before info could be forced out of you” tactic

But if she’s the one on the phone when Phyre interrogates Willem and then causes it to detonate, very hypocritical of our girl to get all pissy about it.

Not saying she *can’t* be hypocritical. She’s on the verge of a crashout in the current timeline. Still, it’s a bit jarring to explode someone and then grieve them so badly to the point of snapping

There could be a possibility that Gideon’s the cause of detonation? That could explain why she would be mad at Phyre.

But in Willem’s section we see him talking to Safia on the phone regarding Campbell’s death. Gideon’s so messed up, he talks in cryptic words which means it’s unlikely for him to be on the other line.

Then there’s the whole concrete situation. It’s impossible for Gideon communicate that way unless he could astral project into a iphone or something.

This confused me during the Tome Alone quest as well. Marked ghouls immediately go to St. Stephen’s as soon as Phyre gets the intel. This is obviously by Gideon because he’s the one in Lou’s head and she gave us the lead.

And Safia had already sent Phyre to retrieve it, which meant she had no reason to send lackeys (unless for the hell of it). So we know Gideon has some level of influence over the marked ghouls.

Willem *only* name dropping Gardener - he could simply be protecting Safia - is the only reason I could assume Gideon might’ve given the order to one of the marked thinbloods or something to remotely explode the bomb.

[alohattan]

Gideon and Phyre

I saw a post on reddit talking about how Safia played them completely, pleased to see Safia appreciation posts even if they’re basically “You treacherous snake, I liked you!”

One of the comments shared the sentiment and they sorta dissed Gideon - “What do you mean she’s in love with that bald underground troll?!”

That was so fucking funny to me even it caught me off guard.

It got me thinking, why would you hate Gideon? I know that comment was a joke but humour me, you can’t even hate him for fun because the game doesn’t give you enough time to form an opinion on him anyway.

At least that’s what I think, personally.

He appears in two or three flashbacks for Fabien, we only ‘meet’ him once as Phyre and by then, it’s not even “Gideon” anymore. The flashbacks segments show him to be a nice guy, he seems very mellow to warrant any sort of reaction from players (take Nix for example, she has even fewer screentime but her personality is prominent enough that you can feasibly form an opinion on her)

The Gardner is annoying at best, doesn’t really have the meat to hate him in a satisfying manner, if that makes sense? (Except for that “I’m leaky” line. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. Please don’t say that again)

Good examples would be Lou, Benny, Ysabella and Safia who people can form negative opinions on and it would make sense, like you can understand where someone is coming from regardless of the characters’ screetime.

Not saying Gideon is unhateble, you obviously can. I just meant it in the sense that it’s pretty hard for it to be rooted in the lore or his personality. So in that context, the motive here (the comment) would be envy (duh, sry I’m overanalyzing it lol)

And I can’t believe I hadn’t thought of this before but it was RIGHT THERE.

Phyre hating Gideon. No rhyme or reason, they’ve only seen him through Fabien’s memories (in a positive light no less) and when they do meet him, they don’t even know it’s him. You could say Phyre hates Gideon because of the Sabbat corruption. Yes, that’s what they want you to believe. That’s how they justify their hate.

But the real reason is petty. jealousy.

If you guys wanna make a horrible personality for Phyre, then have I got something for you.

It’s not even like Phyre liked Safia. They loved turning their nose up at her, letting her fawn over them just to turn around and humiliate her later. What was she if not but an insignificant little usurper trying to curry flavour with a powerful Elder such as themself?

Then the truth is revealed and Phyre CANNOT stomach that Safia did all this for Gideon. Gideon? That she loves him? Excuse her?

*scoff* Does she even know how powerful, cunning, and most of all… ravishing Phyre is? They are a Legend, dammit! Dubbed death themself! And she dares—!

Thus Phyre develops a hatred so visceral towards Gideon that it’s hard to believe it’s rooted in something as juvenile as envy and bruised pride. And they’re suddenly interested in Safia- now that they feel like she’s not wrapped around their little finger anymore. Makes them itch for her attention, they will get her right back where she belongs.

Bonus points if Phyre was unbothered on finding out Gideon’s Gardener (Sabbat or not, they killed him already, what can he do anyway?) but finding out Safia’s fond of him is what strikes a nerve.

[alohattan]

I love reading the bigass paragraphs of theories, lore and analysis concerning Vtmb2 story. Like stop with the "Sorry for the rant" thing I loveeee reading them A big wall of text fixating on a random obscure codex entry? Don't mind if I do 🥰 But at the same time, reading all these analysis reminds me how much I suck at subtle storytelling and subtext. Because hooo boy, my understanding of the vmtb2 story during the first playthrough was giving delusional The ONLY thing I figured out before the big reveal was Safia's betrayal. I was new to vtm but still, she stood out enough for me to clock that either she's gonna die tragically or she's gonna betray Phyre And this woman hit me with both

Other than that? The story went right over my head until Safia spelled it out for my Phyre at the finale. Before it, I thought without a single hint of irony that— Fabien and Safia were a thing - Don't look at me like that. The dialogue Safia says in the flashback read as longing to me. "We never really get the chance to talk, do we?" directed at Fabien And my second crackhead theory was that LOU GRAHAM and GIDEON were having an affair (Sacrilege). I didn't know about the Malk-speaking-in-prophetic-riddles quirk so I took Gardener's ramblings for facevalue and deduced that Lou lured Gideon with her beauty and whatnot Purely based on the line "Why with her love she quite transfixed me... Her word cold iron through my heart!" I thought Lou basically led Gideon on and trapped him, thus he wants revenge. So Safia and him being a thing genuinely surprised me I'm sorry Saf, but I totally thought Gideon was like an older, mentor-figure to you

[alohattan]

Would it be wrong, if I say I wanted an unethical and toxic fic between Safia, Gideon and Phyre

Like a AU fic where Gideon and Safia are fiancés after a century of dating but then Safia meets Phyre (the AU is just Gideon being alive and Safia not being rabid)

Imagine the excitement you get from a new crush, something like that. So the new feeling has Safia hooked (not to mention she’s READ about the nomad, she’s their biggest fangirl)

So Safia is unintentionally chasing this feeling with Phyre. At first she justifies it, makes excuses, is in denial

Then she just accepts this but is like, “Gideon is still my lover. They’re just a momentary fling.”

But it’s so intense that she’s basically (nah, literally) cheating on Gideon with Phyre. First it’s emotional only, then it inevitably turns physical

Though it’s only just a few kisses here and then (having a hard time imagining Safia going past that without crumbling into dust out of sheer guilt with Gideon alive and well)

Safia loves Gideon, she truly does. He’s such a deeply comforting presence in her unlife. But Phyre is this new, intoxicating and fiery romance (see what I did there) she can’t help but keep going back to

The forbidden nature of their relationship is also… part of the appeal

Bonus points if (when) Gideon finds out, he’s just chill about it and is just wondering why Safia did not just tell him outright

It’s only toxic and problematic when Gideon doesn’t know about it tho. I was initially just curious about how the characters would act in this scenario

What Safia would feel, how Phyre would handle being the side piece or whatever

But it’d definitely be funny if the whole fic is incredibly angsty, slightly romantic (cuz pining! ‘Oh no we can’t! can we?’ 👀)and lots! LOTS of guilt only for the last line to be like

Gideon: “Oh dear, why didn’t you just tell me and save yourself all this torment? Go get that elderussy” </3

[alohattan]

Guys GUYS Listen.... What if... Bloodlines 2 but catholic. Keep some of the supernatural elements but just, EVERYTHING is set in a huge Church convent, late 1800s Lou Graham can be the bitchy and condescending Mother Superior. Ryong be the experienced nun who befriends Safia by giving her advice to avoid getting in trouble. Safia herself is the nun-in-training who entered the convent with the sole reason of killing the Mother Superior. Why? Because Lou defamed Gideon, spread word that he is possessed by a demon. Gideon could possibly have dirt on Lou which, if it got out, would destroy her reputation as a respected member of the Church. (Brother) Campbell as a chaplain who's in training. (Or maybe Campbell could be raised by Lou in the convent to give her maximum influence over him). Campbell and Ryong are adopted siblings. Campbell had grown up under Lou's carful gaze so he's more vulnerable to her manipulations while Ryong's less less influenced by Lou cuz she was taken-in when Ryong was in her teens, not completely free but a little bit more rebellious. Safia and Gideon are from a village which is a few miles walk from the Convent. Because it is isolated, the Convent is the only semblance of a clergy to the villagers, they put Lou (and later Campbell) on a pedestal. With the "demon possess" scare, they naturally turn to them for a solution. Lou as the Mother Superior cannot perform an exorcism but Campbell can. Thus they with Lou's deliverance prayers and Campbell's exorcism they graciously cast Gideon's soul unto heaven (he gets slimed). Safia does not believe the demon allegations but is helpless against the villagers' pitchfork and torch approach so the exorcism happens despite her best efforts to stop it (it also gives a reason for Safia to hate BOTH the villagers and the Church ayeeee) For The Nomad, I had two ideas. They could either be a saint who Safia sorta obsesses over when she decides to infiltrate the Church. After poring over several religious texts she comes across the Nomad and she just... captivated. Gideon could be like a ghost that talks to her in disembodies voice that pushes her towards the revenge (who knows if she's hallucinating the voice or if she's actually being haunted by him) Or we could go a different route. Let Nomad be just that, a wanderer. The Villagers are very cautious of them, rumours that the Nomad themselves are the Devil incarnate spreads. The Nomad is charismatic, very magnetic, allegedly they entice the Nuns and make them turn away from God. Which reinforces the Devil narrative. Every nun in the convent avoid them like a plague. This catches Safia's interest and she thinks what better way to sabotage Lou Graham than the Devil themself.

I just don't know how to incorporate Fabien into this