As I understand things, the emperor is like 12+ft tall, big man. If he's supposed to be all these different historical figures, how do we square this?
Did he just get real big one day in the age of strife?
Is he able to just look real big and is like the equivelent of puffing his chest out all the time from the age of strife onward?
Is he actually normal guy sized and just bets on his reputation?
Is it a kids in a trenchcoat situation?
He's not actually 12ft+ tall. He's Just Some Guy in actuality but through a combination of biomancy and psychic projection, he appears to be very tall. Or, I mean, by the time of the Great Crusade he doesn't really even have a "true form" anymore, he's just whatever he needs to be at any given time.
He doesn't appear very tall or muscular or whatever all the time, even in the 30th millenium. He appears as a giant golden figure when he needs to project strength and authority, but sometimes he appears as a normal ass looking guy. Like when he finds Perturabo, he appeared as a normal baseline human. To some baseline humans, he just appears as some schmuck in a lab coat.
So for most of human history, before he revealed his true power level, he was looking like some guy.
The fanart depicts him as consistently 14 feet tall and extremely muscular because...I dunno, people want to fuck that version most?
everyone talks about Angron lifting the titan's foot in Betrayer but I do not see nearly enough people talking about the scene in Ghost of Nuceria where an unarmed and unarmored Angron TEARS A FULLY ARMORED CUSTODES IN HALF WITH HIS BARE HANDS and would have done the same to several more if the Emperor hadn't yelled at him
A phalanx of golden-armoured warriors surrounded him, each holding a crackling halberd longer than they were tall. Seconds before, Angron had been in the centre of a battlefield, and the Butcher’s Nails were still in command of him. He saw strangers on all sides of him, brandishing weapons. The Nails saw blood, begging to be spilled.
The closest of the golden warriors took one step further, and Angron killed him for it. The blink of an eye was all it took before he cast the corpse to the ground, torn in half from collar to groin by his bare hands. The others advanced, their halberds at his throat and spasming with angry chains of lightning.
Angron found a dozen weaknesses in each of them, angles left open and postures vulnerable. He would make this entire room red, until you couldn’t see the gold, he would–
As I revealed in This Post, I have life-longedly loved GamesWorkshop’s(idk WHY my tag for them is separated; I should prob fix that |:T) settings, tho I wouldn’t say I’ve really been a *PART* of its fandom cuz I was at most a lurker in EVERY fandom before Homestuck, but An Idea occurred to me today about some VERY obscure parts of the Imperium’s backstory which would make ALLOT OF THREADS snap NEATLY INTO PLACE, and I’m going to write this theory down(with no idea how unviable their novelizations make it cuz No I Am Not Reading Those Things) even though it will probably be of zero interest to most of my Dear, Dear Sweet Readers u_u u_u
ANYWAY(and under a cut to Spare You All):
All Imperial history is DEEPLY falsified, OBSESSIVELY Censored and Redacted, propaganda; and pre-imperial human history -SPCL the bits from before the birth of Sla’anesh(Yes: I REFUSE to abandon the old spelling; i LIKE that glottal stop there and Im PRESERVING It unu unu unu) wrecked EVERYONE’S shit Thoroughly and Comprehensively- are All Of THAT applied to incomplete -NEVER intentionally preserved- archaeological data, but one thing that this ENTIRELY SUSPECT ~Record~ is clear on(mostly because it’s a central tenet of the Martian Steampunk Techfetishist Cult who builds and maintains, but never Innovates cuz that’d be HERESY!, their equipment) is that back in the Bad Old Days(read: Communist Space-Utopia) Humanity had three classes of “Abominable Intelligences”(AI, get it?) -the Men of Stone, the Men of Iron and the Men of Gold- upon whose labor that Communist Space-Utopia existed, until the Men of Iron rebelled.
From what I’ve read in wikis and what minimal discussion I’ve seen in the fandom the general theories on this tend to be that the Men of Stone were maybe an older class of robots or laborbots, the Men of Iron militarybots, and there’s really no firm idea on who the Men of Gold were(the most popular theories seem to be they were either governmental machine intelligences or some sort of mechanical psyker), but here’s the thing: Why do we think they were all Mechanical?
The recent League of Votann material makes it clear that they’re a clone subspecies derived from genomes specifically engineered for mining work in harsh and non-atmosphere conditions. It also makes clear that ‘the Men of Iron’ were NOT exclusively military bots because the Leaguers STILL HAVE THEM AROUND. THEY DIDNT DESTROY THEM AND RECORD NO CONFLICT WITH THEM(which sort of undermines the whole ‘Oh our Robots went Beserk for No Reason and tried to Genocide all biological life!’ line). They’re citizens like everybody else; self-directed people who just happen to be built rather than decanted out of a clone-vat.
The Humans of what the Imperium calls “The Dark Age of Technology” had the technology to do whatever they liked with the human genome, as ‘abhumans’ like the Leaguers well attest. What if their idea of what constituted an “Artificial Intelligence” included biological constructs? ‘Artificial’ just means ‘Made; Product of Artifice’. What if the Leaguers(scifi takes on Dwarves I remind you) **ARE** the “Men of Stone”, pursuing their own fates independent of the long-dead Federation of “Real” humans which made them to be slaves, just like the Men of Iron living beside them?
But: I haven’t addressed the question of “The Men of Gold”. While it’s just one internet-snake’s fantheory I feel pretty confident about the above, but this next one’s a BIT of a stretch. However: I have what I THINK is a very eloquent way to illustrate it:
That’s The Emperor.
Well: before he was mortally wounded, bound to a giant soul-eating chair, and turned into a demiliche-cum-navigation-beacon by the genocidal fanatics he created to Kill All Nonhumans.
What he’s wearing is called Auric, technically auric-adamantium(auric means golden) armor, and it’s a technology from the ‘Bad Old Days’. He didn’t have much of it and he’d hand it out to his favorites among the Primarchs(those genocidal fanatics who turned him into a psychic lighthouse so they could keep going to breathtaking new places and killing exciting new people).
What if The Emperor is the last ‘Man of Gold’?
I’ve laid out my theory for the Leaguers being ‘The Men of Stone’, and what if something similar, but taken in a RADICALLY different direction, is going on here? What if ‘The Men of Gold’ were artificial biological constructs engineered to Govern the same way Leaguers are engineered to mine and survive? The “Solution” to politics humans have dreamed of for so long: beings incapable of pursuing anything less than the ‘Ultimate Utilitarian Good’(lots of wiggleroom there I’ll warn you!), perfectly logical, utterly dedicated to the survival of humanity(no matter the costs or crimes), peerless in strategy, faultless in rhetoric, infinitely charismatic, Impossible to kill, INCAPABLE of nepotism(or personal loyalty of any kind beyond the expedient, for that matter), and -oh!- also psychics who can know what you want -and how to convince you that their way will get it- before you do, AND project their awarenesses literally across the galaxy at-whim.
What if, taking a page from Voltaire, the humans of “The Dark Age of Technology” made the gods that didn’t exist, and made them In Their Image?
WH40K Lore Problem - Is it a Retcon or is Nobody Driving the Bus?
INTRO
A while ago I posted this on the Advance Tau Tactica forum, posing the question as to what’s really behind all the inconsistencies in WH40K lore. At bottom of this post is link to the complete discussion thread. If any of you are Tau players, or are interested in Tau lore, the A.T.T. forum is great place to visit.
EXCERPTS
Proposition: It's not a Retcon, Nobody is Driving the Bus!
Much of what we think of as retcon of WH40K lore is just some author not doing do diligence; or just not caring enough about the subject to even bother. Only rarely do I think someone knows what the lore is, and then goes ahead and does whatever they want to anyway. Much less, do I ever think there is a wilful "overturning" of lore; just because some editor or game designer wants to remake the WH40k universe.
What Games Workshop and Black Library Authors have said about the subject.
"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. If it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it."
Marc Gascogne, chief editor Black Library
"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."
Gav Thorpe, Lead Designer GW
"It all stems from the assumption that there's a binding contract between author and reader to adhere to some nonexistent subjective construct or 'true' representation of the setting. There is no such contract, and no such objective truth."
Andy Hoare, Game Designer GW
"There is no canon. There are several hundred creators all adding to the melting pot of the IP."
Aaron Dembski-Bowden, co-author Horus Heresy series
Please take a look at the discussion thread, or at least give your opinion on the status of WH40K lore as it stands today.
Want me to convince you that Prospero deserved to burn with one sentence? We canonically have a Thousand Son who's a massive weeaboo:
> He shook his head. ‘These are not robots.’
Yokai.
Ahriman recognised the sigil as a word form belonging to a long-vanished empire of Old Earth, a mythical creature of some kind, but its deeper meaning eluded him.
> Atharva would have known. His abrasive Corvidae brother had been fascinated by the legends of the Dragon Nations. He would have told them everything there was to know of the yokai: etymological analysis of the name, folk tales and all manner of esoteric trivia. But Atharva had left the Legion decades ago to join the Crusader Host and was almost certainly incarcerated somewhere on Terra.
> Stone dragons stood watch at either end of its eaves, and once again Ahriman wished he’d shared Atharva’s enthusiasms for the cultures of Old Earth.
Excerpts from The Crimson King
Thank God Ahriman doesn't like anime 🙏 (doesn't save him from a hentai-esque scene with tentacles in another book lmao). He's already sort of a loser, liking anime on top of all else would be an overkill.
I'm putting this here as well since I'm not sure if others outside the community will see it otherwise:
Not sure, if these new communities are anything that'll stick around, but I thought why not try it out and got this one approved.
There's a lot of different directions Wh40k stuff goes on Tumblr and I think already some communities for it as well (think I saw a post about a RP one a while ago).
Idea of this one would be to share and discuss what's going on in the (official) lore, since that is already a lot to navigate and get an overview of, but in general I'm not opposed to broadening it up for fanfiction discussions as well (although tagging it accordingly would be good in order to not confuse those out of the loop).
Made the community public, but I think that only relates to post visibility. If someone wants to join, just send me a dm.
What the hell is going on with The Iron Kingdom by Nick Kyme?
I know that 40k novels often struggle with consistency, but the sheer illogical happenings in this book are driving me crazy, so I decided to write some of this down before my head explodes.
Spoilers below this point. Also a lot of ranting.
1) How in hell did the most undiplomatic idiot get command of the battle group sent on a diplomatic mission??
- they want resupply from this world
- they want to establish a supply hub
- and all they bring in return is the dead heir to the local monarchy
- to a Knight world, which are notorious for their focus on their own sovereignty.
How the fuck do you get the idea "You know what? This is gonna go swimmingly, I'll just send some ships ahead so they can start collecting resources a few days early."
Getting there took 5 *years*, why would you care about a few days and antagonise the local governess before even establishing communications?
2) Who made this unstable, impulsive despot queen of this world??
Imperial tithe collectors trample a few fields and antagonise the locals? - doesn't do anything.
Fleet master establishes communication? - Just exchange half a dozen sentences, just hinting at all the problems, but not really talking anything through.
Find that your dead daughters skin has just *slightly stretched* after being dead for over 5 years despite statis field? - Immediately lose it and give orders to assassinate an ambassadorial delegation of several dozen imperials (itself pretty much a declaration of war) including a General, a Silent Sister and a damn Custodes??? A literal companion of the emperor, mythical being and all that?
(And her brother, who fought along these people for years, is just ok with this besides some slight protests?)
3) Speaking of the Custodes, why does such an interesting character established in a previous book (part of the diplomatic corps of Custodes, but not really that good at it, but working on it) who fits this situation perfectly, get nothing more that one scene where he is reading a bit and another where he just dies instantly to some Knights?
Where is the awe-inspriring influence of these legendary warriors on normal humans?
Where is his diplomatic skill and authority, why does he just let the undiplomaitic idiots fuck everything up?
What did Andy do to Nick, that he just slaughters his characters such as Vychellan just like that?
4) What kind of idiot selected this Kingsward, protector of the queen?
He finally finds the renegade he has been hunting for *years* by walking into a trap and turning it around, defeats him and then just... leaves? Because he got word of the war the Queen started?
He's right there, just finish this guy, you need at least an hour to get back to the Palace anyway, what does it matter? But no, gotta let him live, to he can get back later and cause problems, I guess. At least give him a miraculous escape, not "enemy turned around at the last moment, because he's an idiot."
5) Then we have some usual inconsistencies turned up the maximum with the primarchs equerry Messinius not just being completely aware of the situation just days into the conflict, but *actually there*?? During a time of exceptionally difficult warp travel??? How the hell do you justify that? Did he secretly sell his soul to the dark gods, or something?
There's more with the Iron Veil being unrealistic and the strength of the Kamidarian atomic weapons not making sense, but maybe that's just the physicist in me being pedantic (and fairly common in 40k, so whatever).
But sentences like "The Imperiums ressources are not inexhaustible" just hurt when reading because, yes, for a single world like yours they pretty much are and you should know that...
That's it, ranting over (for now).
Haven't finished the boom yet and seriously thinking about not finishing it at all, which would be a first for me.
Really enjoyed the Dawn of Fore series so far (although Wolftime was a bit weary), but this book has me pulling out hair..
