#yrtalk

[kingwille]

The role of the monarchy in Young Royals: A Rant

(Disclaimer: this is my own opinion and of course not everyone has a problem with this but it would be nice if people were open to read and understand this but if you're not open to criticism then maybe don't)

Something that has started to bother me in season 3, but has been the case to a lower degree for the entirety of the show, is the way the monarchy is represented and how little information we actually get about it and even misinformation that's spread. I get that it's a fictional monarchy which doesn't align 1:1 with the real Swedish one but I'm assuming the same rules etc. still apply just because we are never told otherwise. And that's also my criticism: the show never dives deeper into the actual monarchy.

No history, no background, what is the royal family, how far back does their blood line go? What's their family name? What is Wille's full name with all his titles? How come it's such a small royal family? Give me information about Kristina - how come she has no siblings, what was her pappa, Wille's grandfather, the previous king, like? And what about Ludvig? He would probably also be required to have certain duties and accomplishments as Prince Consort, what does he actually do? (and why does the show never address him with that title?)

Why does it even still exist? The reason the real swedish monarchy still exists is because they present themselves nice and approachable and make sure no abolishing voices get too loud by staying popular with the people. What makes our yr monarchy stay intact? How has it survived for this long? Are they popular? How is their marketing? Do the people like their Queen? Or her husband? Because those are very important factors.

I would've loved to have at least a little bit more about the royal history and the people in the show to give us more of a feel for it and make it feel more real. I assume though it's exactly for that reason they didn't do any of these things so the monarchy stays this faceless institution we can just call bad without any nuance and make it easy to support Wille "leaving" it because we don't really know it. We never give it any more backstory or a real foundation or an opportunity for growth and progress because it's not supposed to be anything more. They're supposed to appear personality-less like machines, always serious and regal and not actually be genuinely happy.

Wilhelm is a prince but we are shown only scraps of his life, barely even glimpses of what it really must be like growing up as a royal. Yes, he experiences public attention and pressure and a sense of feeling trapped, that's it. It only uses his title when it wants to make a point about something bad and when it's convenient to convey their message but doesn't actually acknowledge so many other things. The privileges and riches that come with it are barely explored, possibly because it would make Wille look less sympathetic.

Showcasing the royal life as not so glamourous and making it extremely bleak is a choice and don't get me wrong, I do like it not being glorified and being critical of it. Don't take this post as me being a monarchy defender, there are definitely things to critisise and it's worth investigating some darker sides of it but the show doesn't even do that right and properly addresses those things. The criticism is vague and way too generic and feels mostly empty to me. Simon's jab at the royals being the biggest welfare receivers is justified and something real to critisise and talk about but that was it.

To make an actual good, well developed critique/commentary it should feel well researched and should at least make an effort to show both good and bad because it's never just black and white. But like I said, the story is lacking that nuance. It doesn't even attempt to show it also being capable of having a positive impact, every possible positive thing immediately gets dismissed or negated because it doesn't fit into their narrative of the evil monarchy, which they showcase with pointed, selective cuts but no actual depth or truth behind it. Which was a little more subtle but still present in s1 and s2 where you could have hope for progress still and then hammered home very, very strongly in s3.

I'm not a royal expert by any means but I have learned more about royalty and monarchies from fans and reading yr fics than I have from the show teaching me (so thank you guys!). It seems like the writers decided to paint a certain picture of the swedish monarchy today - old-fashioned, very traditional, only harmful and incapable of change and didn't care if that image is true or not, when in fact the real swedish monarchy is known as one of the most modern ones out there. If it's meant to critisise the current monarchy then it's doing everything to paint them in the complete opposite light and make them so unsympathetic to get its point across that it's purely fiction and therefore can't be taken seriously as a critical monarchy commentary anymore.

And making it out like LGBTQ+ rights are too political and the royal family never does anything of substance which is very easy to call out on its bullshit if you just do a little resarch or listen to people who know better. They did their research on boarding schools and managed to capture the vibe and atmosphere regarding the elitism and the hierarchy very well but beyond that, research seemed to be sloppily done or deliberately ignored to convey the message they wanted: the monarchy is inherently bad and everyone in the system suffers in it with no exceptions. It consciously bends the truth and provides a simple, one sided view.

Others might be okay with that and don't see a fault in that and yes, there could be worse things but (and I guess that was my mistake) I expected more (better?) from the show than to just be a blatant anti-monarchy propaganda in the end.

There's proof even in the way the characters are portrayed. Everyone at Hillerska, especially August, are rich, noble, spoiled teenagers who are classist (and possibly adding sexist and racist to it) and what do they support? The monarchy! They might not all be inherently bad but are definitely put in a less sympathetic light and of course they're all royalists.

And now who isn't and has a staunch anti-monarchy stance? Simon! Who is presented as our good guy and represents the 'normal' people who all apparently suffer from the oppression and disapprove of the monarchy (along with Ayub and Rosh who are also painted in a more positive light and are liked by the fandom). He is framed as the one with the 'right' opinions and generally being enlightened and is the hero and savior rescuing Wille out of the dark, toxic clutches of the monarchy, helping him see the light.

Another significant example about spreading disinformation or omitting things: abdication. It drives me crazy whenever I see that being used to describe Wille's actions in the finale and it has become this overall spread term in the fandom but it's just incorrect. It technically means the same as renouncing the throne but it is only used for monarchs, that means Wilhelm would have to be king before he could abdicate and isn't that ironic - that's exactly the opposite of what people want when they use the term.

The show never bothers to correct or explain that though. No, it's on the fans again to figure it out and to know better and let others know. They also don't bother to tell us what would actually happen once Wille renounces the throne and what that process would look like because the majority of the people who watch the show probably have no real knowledge of the swedish monarchy and don't look deeper into it because why should they? The show should give you all the information you need, or at least a sort of realistic view of that because it always prided itself on being 'real' before and not a fairytale.

Like the fact that Wille didn't do anything yet since he can't legally renounce as a minor and that even if he steps down it doesn't mean he's leaving the monarchy and is no longer a royal. It would still make him a prince with all the duties and responsibilities attached to that. And putting August as the next in line would require a change to the constitution and takes time and there needs to be a lot of political and public support to even make that happen and it's not something that is guaranteed to work out.

But no, the show is not interested in giving us a logical (or any) explanation as to how that process would look like or even how August was chosen so they withhold this information on purpose so most people are left with the belief Wille can just do that and give his title over to August so easily, no problem, everything's solved and everything is great now, the end.

Because being a prince is supposed to be the bad, difficult part to be criticised and not being a (crown) prince is supposed to be good and easy with no complications attached and that process is not to be questioned and is not allowed to be critisised. I don't blame people for believing it but I blame the show for presenting it that way.

One other thing that shows how little they cared to do an accurate portrayal: the royal family being in the same car together. It might not seem like a big deal but that would never happen, it's basic royal protocol. Erik driving Wille to Hillerska in ep1 - never would they let the Crown Prince and the spare drive together, that's probably one of the most important things to avoid. And the irony is, Erik does die in a car accident later! In that exact car! It literally could've happened with both of them inside! But the show dismisses that point completely and also lets the Queen and Wilhelm, their then current Crown Prince, drive in a car together throughout the entire show. The safety risks are killing me.

They make it a point to tell us Wille can't eat cake because of a risk of poisoning but this, this is totally fine, why should this safety detail be included, it's not like it would make sense and seem much more important and logical! But we once again ignore it for the convenient sake of the plot. Which would be fine but all of it combined, significantly reduces their credibility and seriousness and my ability to suspend my disbelief much further, even more and that is irksome and unnecessary.

There were obvious priorities chosen with their limited time and providing us with a detailed, nuanced look of the monarchy, the thing the whole show is essentially about and their protagonist is a part of (and always will be), was unfortunately not one of them.

There are more things you could get into and many more examples of inconsistencies and sloppy writing and potential plot holes (feel free to add anything you can think of) and I get into some of them in this other post. The more I think about it, the more all these questions and topics come to mind that leave me very unsatisfied and disappointed with the portrayal of the monarchy in the show among other things and there was a massively wasted potential in properly using it.

[kingwille]

I don't know if it needs to be said but I'm gonna say it anyway - you guys do know there's nothing wrong with making Wille the top and Simon mainly the bottom in sexual scenarios, right? And that making them verse or Wille bottom has nothing to do with making them more equal and you don't need to do that as like a way to balance out their class/power differences outside, right?

And topping or bottoming are not synonyms for being dominant or submissive. And when I say they have no drawn out power dynamics in their intimate scenes that means there are no real dom/sub dynamics involved but that doesn't mean you can't have a bottom or a top because that's not the same.

Of course you can write or read whatever you want and just have a personal preference but you don't have to try and read into their scenes for proof they are versatile and oh so equal and purposefully search for clues that make Simon not the bottom because it would be degrading if he is...? Like what are you trying to prove - that Simon is also strong and 'manly' and it can't be implied that he exclusively is the bottom and likes getting fucked bc that would be disrespecting him? Isn't that kind of the exact mindset trap you're trying not to fall into?

I just want to emphasise this in case people think this - you're not taking Simon's power and agency away from him if you're making him bottom.

To sum it up, wilmon have no pronounced dom/sub dynamic and they can both surrender to the other in different ways but I do believe there is a certain position preference and it's okay if Wille is more the top (that's just my conclusion from watching/analysing their intimate scenes) and no it doesn't mean they can't ever switch bc it's not that deep but I still think canon tells us a different story than what some people desperately want to make it out to be and whatever they get up to in their sex life has nothing to do with being more or less equal or healthy outside of it.

[kingwille]

Anybody else sad and angry about the treatment of Wilhelm and Simon as characters and wilmon as a relationship in s3 and how much they were done dirty?

How Wille was such a shitty friend towards Felice and a shitty bf towards Simon, deliberately ignoring both of their troubling predicament and feelings about Sara in pursuit of his own happiness and was never there for them and put his own issues behind for once, no, it was always Simon and Felice who had to swallow down their own feelings and support him even when they weren't feeling good and he never even seemed to notice or care.

I hate how Wille was painted as extra selfish and self-centered this season and unaware of his privileges and not once truly acknowledging and recognising that and his own faults and taking responsibility for his actions. Or being interested in speaking up and inspiring change and not wanting to hold up the status quo. And stopped going to therapy and working on his anxiety and other problems. I hate how he regressed from S2 and any of his growth and parts of his character were ignored for the message they wanted to convey. I love him to bits but S3 Wille is not my Wille. Honestly it's character assassination and it makes me furious.

And there being such an emphasis on the negative and the narrative making Simon suffer so much and be so miserable for most of the season. It sucks. Also Simon reacting the way he did to online hate, him being uncharacteristically naive and clueless and putting so much weight on what people say on the internet about him. I understand it's something that affects you and they're both teenagers who don't always behave rationally and their situation is a lot to handle but I still expected from Simon to understand their circumstances better because I think of him as clever and smarter than to be against having a private insta and responding to trolls.

I want to put a huge disclaimer that this is not me hating on the characters! I love them both and that's why this behavior is so upsetting to me. I'm not so much judging them, I'm more judging the writer's decisions for these character developments.

If you have to twist your characters like that to make your plot work and bring across your message then maybe that plot is not working...

And how wilmon was never allowed to have good communication and growth but only had fanservicey makeout moments in between the fighting and always talked past each other and were not truly able to be there for each other and work with each other as a united front and have meaningful conversations about their lives and get to know each other better, which is all we wanted from s3. But instead they were torn apart and their relationship made worse and worse, only succeeding on proving how incompatible they are and what a terrible couple they actually make.

And no, it was not necessary to do all these things. I absolutely refuse to accept the argument that this is all the crown's fault and that's the excuse for Wille's behavior and they could've never been happy and Simon has to give himself up and lose himself. No. That is a choice. The writers decided this is the only way they can bring their message across and get to the outcome they wanted. I'm not saying there shouldn't be any conflict but we could've had problems and drama that built off of what has been established in s1 and s2, showcasing the growth they both went through and find a way for them to work it out and be genuinely happy boyfriends in the season. The writers just didn't want that.

It truly makes me upset that I can't even enjoy their "happy"/makeout scenes because they are only enjoyable out of context but I can't appreciate them for real because it doesn't actually feel earned and they were only little reprieves in midst the miscommunication and Wille and Simon were not really in a good place for almost all of it.

And now I'm supposed to be happy for them and believe that everything is fixed and better in the future without them having given me any indication about it in the show? Ignoring facts that will always be true for them. Being in the public eye. Having to deal with hate comments. Wilhelm always being a part of the royal family. That allegedly they don't have to deal with any of that in the future anymore?

They specifically made this arc and made their gap and differences so wide and severe in s3 to tell me they are not capable of working through and handling these things together that will realistically always be a part of their relationship no matter what but I'm supposed to be rooting for them?

Like any of their mistreatment is justified and worth it for the "happy" ending they got and makes it all okay. It is not, they were done dirty and they (and we) deserved better.

[kingwille]

I wonder how so many people seem to be okay with the prospect of August going to be above Wille in the ranks and be Wille's (and Simon's) boss in the future 😶

Because that's the reality of it, Wilhelm will never be a private citizen, he is and will stay a prince and a public figure, he does not want to cut off all ties if we believe Wille's words in the car and he will still be expected to be a working royal. His dismissal of being crown prince does not exempt him from having duties and responsibilities as he is part of the royal family. The only thing that would change is August would be ranked higher than Wille is right now and be able to give him orders and that is the complete opposite of what I wanted actually.

And I wonder if Simon would be happy with Wille giving up the crown if he knew about these facts and that they would live under August and definitely, certainly not be 'free' of him and the monarchy...at least not in the way they perhaps imagine...

[kingwille]

Serious question: am I the only one who thought Wille's dorm room was on the first/second floor at first? I have not seen this discussed at all but it haunts me.

Here are some pictures:

In the scenes we see, the window definitely looks higher than the ground floor, you can see the roof of that red barn so it has to be at least the first floor.

Here a gif that emphasises the outside view

So imagine my surprise when Alexander just tapped on Wille's window and Wille could climb right out and August later could just look and film right through his window.

This is supposedly Wille's window, August on ground level and the windows don't seem to be very high

So now I'm wondering if they are two rooms they filmed in because it does not seem like the same window or even the same view outside. Is that ever addressed anywhere? I can't think of one behind the scenes footage or anything else where this is mentioned when it looks so obvious to me.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees it.

Honestly, it's crazy they put Wille on the ground floor in the first place, he got a bigger room as crown prince but they didn't really think of better security measures.

Thanks to @the-words-we-sung for providing the pictures!

[kingwille]

i watched the first two seasons when they came out but felt like s2 was a decline in quality (the lighting… the cinematography…) so wasnt too interested in the third season, only recently watched it and feel a bit late to all the fandomy stuff and catching up on what people think and i just wanted to say that ur opinion about wille renouncing his title/the problems in their relationship/the further decline of s3 is literally the only one i feel is like rational and correct and realistic!!

i get sad when i see people say that s3 just made them not care or hoping they wouldn’t get together in the end but i also can’t deal with people just buying into the nonsense narrative with a fairytale plaster på såret ending, i completely agree with you that the idea that wille can just like live a normal life isn’t possible and that its much more interesting to imagine how him, and simon, would balance their relationship with the crown (my headcanon is just that sort of after s3 they are like “okay that was cool but lets get real here” and then they sort of goes back to the more realistic handling of the royal family that it has in s1)

also get so upset when i see people saying simon is selfish and always excusing willhems behaviour so thank u for calling him out!!! (more like the writers for fucking him over) i also dont like that in s3 simon just becomes like this passive person while wille takes on the more dominant role as if simon wasn’t the driving force fucking shit up (respectfully) in s1 while wille kept to the sidelines, i guess its to show how they’ve changed as characters but why when wille becomes tougher does simon have to become more docile, like couldn’t they have come togetherrrrr isnt that supposed to be the whole point? they don’t feel like a couple working together despite their differences they just feel like two fanfic characters going from making out to contrived issues pulling them apart so that they can make out again (but sadder this time)

long message sorry, just saying thank you, as im rewatching s1 and being amazed at how good that season was and mourning what could have been, keep fighting the good fight 👑 (also i keep playing with the idea of them doing like a little reunion special in a few years where wilmon are older and the show is more realistic again and in the vein of s1 and i wanted to hear what you think they should do for something like that)

sorry for not answering so quickly but i had to gather my thoughts and find time to give you a proper answer.

first of all, don't be sorry for the long message, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me! and thank you for saying my opinion is correct haha I know it is lmao. But jokes aside, even though I do get frustrated and I'm sure it bleeds through and sometimes I wanna be petty and hateful, I always try to be reasonable and rational when I talk about criticism so thank you for noticing and appreciating it. (and i do think this criticism is justified and rational but apparently most of the fans don't and just see it as being a hater or monarchy lover)

And same, I also find it sad that s3 ruined wilmon so much that you could actually think they're better off apart. Because I certainly don't really see the long lasting success so I just can't be happy about their ending. I guess i have to accept your headcanon, that makes the most sense but it sucks that you have to imagine a better, more realistic ending or future than canon to somehow make sense of it and excuse it, it shouldn't be like that.

(Also wtf, who is thinking Simon is selfish when he is consistently sacrificing himself and putting his own needs before others throughout the show until he can't anymore and Wille is shown to be consistently selfish which is one of his character traits?)

With Simon being more passive and Wille more dominant - I see where you're coming from but I don't fully agree. Yes to a certain degree, how he treated Simon and Simon just retreated into himself but I actually think Wille was more active and tougher previously (esp in s2) and I mean that in both a good and bad way. In S3 I was missing that cunty attitude he had, he never really fully stood up to Simon or spoke up about the bullying behavior from Vincent and other students (well, he kinda did but that never actually did anything), so in general I would say Wille was actually more passive - he just kinda let things happen at Hillerska, let the royal court tell him what to do, didn't pick anything meaningful for his birthday and so on. I wanted that authorititave energy from him, daring anybody to fuck with him or Simon but I guess he couldn't be shown to actually be protective and competent and successful with that, he had to seem like a royal puppet who can't actually make any things happen and only harm Simon with that :/ They should've been fucking shit up together as a power couple but that was nowhere to be seen

"they don’t feel like a couple working together despite their differences they just feel like two fanfic characters going from making out to contrived issues pulling them apart so that they can make out again (but sadder this time)" -> you summed it up perfectly

And yes, s1 is special. It really is so well done (even though it also isn't perfect and has some issues) and stands so well on its own. Now I do love s2, it actually is my favourite lol, we can critisise the same thing that happened in s3 tho, that both previous finales were kind of downplayed and the actions in it were barely relevant anymore and no consequences were shown in the next season. In fact, the sex video was continuously downplayed after the s1 finale where it was portrayed as this international scandal and loads of people on the internet were gossiping about it but no sign of that in s2 or 3. No one seemed to care now that it was official and wanted to know who filmed and posted that video and if the royal court covered it up like that wouldn't be some of the most pressing questions from the public. (but no we had to wrap it up quick and August couldn't be at risk of losing his position for the ending to work)

I could go on and on about the weird choices lol but what I meant to say is, things like the cinematography or the acting is still great in s2 and 3, that's not the problem imo but many other things are that make s3 unfortunately a much bigger drop in quality.

About the reunion - that's a really good question. With the canonical ending I actually wouldn't be excited if they did that (and I honestly don't want it) but it would be nice if it would be more realistic, idk what they would do for that, I can only say what I would want to see: I want Wille to still be crown prince and going to therapy and working on his anxiety and anger issues and be more confident in himself and I want to see him and Simon working through their life as a public queer royal couple with all its ups and downs together and bringing in some new changes and challenge the old rules and traditions and not letting themselves be torn apart but stand strong.

(But apparently that is too idealistic and not actually 'realistic' to think that could happen 🙄)

If you have any ideas about it or wanna write something down, let me know!

And yes I'll continue to fight the good fight and won't stop talking about it as long as I care and as long as I'm here! 👑 💜

[kingwille]

*whispers* wille is still the crown prince at the end of the show and will remain so for at least another year until he's 18 and even if he renounces his title he's still a prince and will still be a part of the royal family and won't ever have an actual 'normal' life :)

[kingwille]

I think what my problem with the 'bad parent Kristina' trope is, especially in fics, that it basically becomes synonym with evil Kristina which just isn't accurate. She is a bad parent, yes but she isn't this evil witch set on manipulating and destroying her son's life. You can actually be a good person and be a bad parent, those two things are not mutually exclusive. And you can do a shitty job at parenting but still love your child, there can even be affection and good moments, it's just not enough.

Another example is Micke - he's also not actually an abusive asshole but can be really sweet and he obviously loves and cares about his children very much. He wants them in his life and be there for them but that doesn't stop him from having his own problems and letting his kids down. You can love them but still fail your children. And even though you want what's best for them doesn't mean that you can provide it (in Micke's case) or actually act in their best interests (in Kristina's case).

Micke and Kristina are both very good examples on being good people with their own set of baggage who are bad parents that are trying in their own way but in the end simply can't be there for their children the way they should and sadly only hurt them instead of being the emotionally supporting guide they should be.

And it's okay to accept their complexities without erasing either all of their good or their bad qualities.