An important background for the discussion of Ocarina of Time is that it was kind of a joke, an expectation around the early 2010s, that you couldn't critique the game. It was a perfect 10/10 game and to say anything otherwise was disrespectful and contrarian. Another example is that BrentalFloss video about Ocarina of Time. People were genuinely terrified by commenters calling them stupid poopyheads for saying that they didn't like the game.
Another note is that Arin is very much a fan of the Angry Video Game Nerd. He's a guy who likes to exaggerate how much he dislikes something to make people laugh- and that's what this Sequelitis is. As much as he talks about game design and whatnot, he really is just trying to make an entertaining video. (whether or not he achieves that is your decision)
The strawman argument character isn't doing Arin any favors.
His critique on Link To The Past being a bit more linear and focusing on plot isn't really fair to the game. The map and quests are designed to have you explore if you weren't planning to explore already. It shows highlights of the map for you to see (and secrets if you're curious to get off the beaten path).
I don't like it when people say ah-cah-ree-nah. For me it's oak-ah-ree-nah. This is not an actual bash on the review.
His bash on Ocarina's graphics has always been a weird one for me. BrentalFloss brought it up too. I genuinely enjoy Ocarina's world and characters. I think they're designed beautifully. The worst thing I will say is the kinda gross stretchy textures on some larger models like the walls in Hyrule Field.
I like Arin's ramble about Link To The Past's selective Z axis vs Ocarina's literal 3d Z axis.
I see what he means with the Z-targeting opinion but I ultimately disagree with it. Targeting enemies by focusing on them is a big part of many action adventure games. When you enter a room, you get a full scope of the area around you and you're able use object permanence to not get tripped up in the room. Of course, it would be cool to use the room's design to help you out midfight, where most Zelda's don't really do that.
I don't think Arin has the holding Z-Targeting option on, something that the dev's on a Shiekah Stone recommend doing. I think it makes the concept of Z-Targeting worse for him.
I agree with his dislike of the Keese Bat enemies. In Twilight Princess, when you target a Keese, Link will hit upward with his sword. I like that a lot. Though it gives less reason for Link to use his multiple long range weapons.
The waiting. I agree with Arin. I don't have the biggest hatred of most of the enemies that make you wait, some have different ways to bait them into opening their guard, others have specific ways to cheese through the wait period. The worst offender of the "enemies who make you sit and wait for a solid ten seconds just to show their weakspot" is the Forest Temple. The Stalfos, Skulltulas, Floormaster, Poes, etc. The other dungeons vary the enemies more or give better ways to speed past it but the Forest Temple just has it everywhere.
I love the Iron Knuckle and wish there were more fights like it. I agree with Arin on that.
I don't understand his beef with the hitting a gem or eyeball on the wall to open a door. It's just a basic barrier between some rooms to not make every room be a "kill this guy to pass" or "find a key to go to the next room". Some of the hitting an eye or gem puzzles are actual puzzles too. The one's I can think of are the 'melting the ice with a fire arrow through a lit torch', the 'twisty room where the eye acts as a key to untwist it', and 'the spirit temple's boomerang puzzle where you have to throw it around a barrier and hit it'.
His hatred of Skyward Sword------- I don't have an opinion on it. I haven't played the game. I like Groose.
I agree with his dislike of needing the Golden Gauntlets as a key to finishing two spots in Ganon's Castle. It isn't clarified well and it should've clarified that it needs a new item that you don't have yet.
The sliding spike death pucks complaint feels unfair. You see those pucks when you walk into the room, see their trajectory, and now know that's how they move. It's basic object permanence. I like the OOPS joke he does with it.
I highly disagree with the jumping on platforms thing. Sure, it's easy but I see it as varied level design and yes, I fell down some pits a few times. Not only that, the visual he uses is for the Fire Temple, the space where that platform is the key you unlock to fighting the boss.
He uses the idea of a sliding enemy that blocks your path and you have to time your movements. That's the sliding puck enemy he just described.
I like the enemy suggestion that pushes you back. It works. I agree.
The bombs are fairly easy to use in Ocarina. After a few throws, you usually get a good understand of Link's throwing arc. Even if you miss, you can fix it in the next throw. My personal beef with the bombs was that Link sometimes just drops the bomb at his feet because you weren't moving enough to throw it. To each their own I guess.
I like the treasure chest bit where the camera swirls around but I understand Arin's complaint. It gets repetitive, especially when its something meager like a compass or a map. The magic kinda dies off after the fourteenth time the camera swirls around Link as he slowly opens a chest for yet another compass. I like the Link To The Past comparison where the chest stares you in the face for a good part of the dungeon, making it a goal from the beginning. I like this critique Arin makes.
Again, with the waiting argument, I can't help but agree. There's a lot of time just given to dead air, opening chests, doors closing behind you, characters who won't shut up, reminders on how to use an item that you already have, music tones to show you did the puzzle right making you see the door open, and especially switching between the past and the present. He doesn't bring it up but the place where I noticed the wait the longest was walking to Castle Town across Hyrule field as Young Link. It's agonizing playing as an adult with little wonder and the curiosity that makes you look around every nook and cranny. Hyrule Field is such a slow and boring trek, it feels like the worst part of a Bethesda game. His reference to Link To The Past's mirror is a fair argument. (Though I would say it very much feels less epic and grand as going to the Temple of Time to change.)
The thought of how the special item in a dungeon being the key to defeating the boss has been one of the most agreed critiques I've seen of Zelda dungeon design. And yeah, I agree with Arin. Many of the 2d Zelda's let you experiment with the bosses and use other items and your sword.
The roadblock argument I get but I disagree. That's basically every adventure game's design. That's literally all of Half Life. Gordon Freeman finds a locked door and has to hike two miles to find a way around it or unlock it. Zelda games that Arin likes does this too so I don't understand what he means by this.
I see where Arin's coming from with the want of some optional side mini dungeon appearing from some hole in the wall but I feel like that's not what Ocarina of Time is going for.
Back to the using items from not the dungeon you're in against bosses. Yeah, I agree. It feels kinda crummy that your inventory in the 3d Zelda's get filled with junk that you never use. I was playing Twilight Princess and I don't understand why a slingshot's even in the game. Link quickly replaces it with a bow so why even have another long ranged weapon like that? At least in Ocarina you have the excuse with the "Adult Link doesn't use Young Link's items for whatever reason". I do wish dumb random items like the megaton hammer could be used in other dungeons other than one off spots.
I see where Arin's coming from where the plot is kinda thrown at Link vs Link in the other games just kinda going where the player goes due to exploration. Like in Link To The Past, the path just kinda leads you to your dying uncle and now you have to escape the castle VS Ocarina having an NPC tell Link to go somewhere to talk to a guy to do the dungeon. I do agree, yeah, and it gets worse in future Zelda's, but I feel like that's kind of the point in Ocarina. Link is given a responsibility without being asked because he is the only outsider in a land of fairytale forever children. Link will have to grow up and be a big kid compared to his peers. The Kokiri tell Link that Kokiri that leave the forest will die and yet Saria forlornly believes in Link and knows he'll be okay. It shows that these characters see Link as a responsible figure, one who is different and one who is up to a task that is given to him. Ocarina's Link is clearly a hero of necessity VS one like Wind Waker's who just kinda ends up as a hero due to him just wanting to save his sister. Arin clearly isn't a big fan of the responsibility excuse according to his Awesome series parody of it. Are there some nitpicks I could give to it despite liking it? YEAH! I think there are better ways to have done it that didn't require Navi, Saria, or that Owl to tell you what to do in an annoying way. At least Saria is an optional choice.
The roadblocks in places like Kakariko Village feel unfair to critique because they're literally put there to 1. Make sure that the player does the right story beats like talking to Zelda, and 2. Make sure the player doesn't end up in a random overleveled area. This isn't STALKER, this is an adventure game where you have to speak to the characters and know what you're fighting for. It isn't purposely misinforming the player in why they should care about the adventure. It's context of why Link is on an adventure. I can tell why he likes Breath Of The Wild so much. I think this is the worst thing he's said in the review.
The complaint about Navi is fair. It's been complained about since the game came out. Though I wasn't much annoyed by Navi as a kid, I definitely drew comics where Link would grab her and squeeze her like a stress ball whenever he was pissed. During my replay, I just found her unnecessary at times. It feels like she only really exists to do Z-Targeting and remind the player what to do if they hadn't played the game in a bit. Comparing her to a side character like Midna is night and day. Midna feels like she's along the ride, really wanting you to succeed while also having this very unique personality. I would not put Twilight Princess in my top 3 Zelda games but Midna, as a written character, is the number 1. I wish Navi had as much personality as Midna, or even like Tatl in Majora's Mask.
Link isn't avenging his mother??? Like yeah she was killed but that's not the point??? It's like saying Goku kills Frieza specifically to avenge Bardock. That's not what happened.
The Goron eating rock thing is a bad argument but it's a joke so I don't care.
I agree with the Saria's Song for the Goron being a bad roadblock. It makes no sense for it to work other than to be a joke, but then again, the game is silly and funny and weird.
The Goron sidekick argument does not work and it REALLY MAKES SENSE WHY HE LOVES BOTW. I don't see on N64 hardware of a teammate like a Goron buddy having good AI to help you out. Maybe I'm undervaluing the power of the N64.
I see his critique of Zelda games following a formula and I really agree with it, especially with Zelda games POST Ocarina. They all follow similar formats, tropes, and dungeon design. AND ITS NOT ALWAYS GREAT.
I agree with the lack of mystery in modern Zelda games thought.
I don't know much about Skyward Sword.
I haven't played Link Between Worlds but his example sounds cool.
The Twilight Princess double longshot critique is warranted. I feel like its a cool item, that didn't need the previous version. It should just be introduced as the cool double longshot and the levels should have been designed around it. It's how I feel about the OoT's longshot as well. We didn't need an upgrade to the item, it could have just been the upgraded one to begin with and the level design to reflect it. (same with the gauntlets too.)
I did not like Hyrule Warriors.
I appreciate Arin's dumb strawman arguer being validated and him saying that it's only fair that they get a chance to rebuttal his critiques.
Ocarina is a 9/10 at the very least to me. It is my favorite game. I avoided this opinion for a while due to feeling like it might be nostalgia but it straight up isn't. I just like the game because it's good. I feel like most of Arin's arguments are fair, if not agreeable. There's a handful of arguments that I outright disagree with. I don't think he was being disingenuous with this review NOR do I think it's a bad review. Good Video. 1/10.
Ask a fellow forest temple disliker, please tell me more
OH OKAY!
To give credit where credit is due, the forest temple is beautiful. The design work of the outdoor garden areas, the weird little well that you go underneath, that one room with the empty hole in the middle where you fight two Stalfos', the middle hub room with the torches, it's all visually great. That room that twists and turns and gravity shifts as you walk past it, I genuinely don't understand with early graphics like that and early 3d programming, how they managed to do that. When you compare it to how simple the Deku Tree is, its so clear that the programmers had learned a lot about 3d graphics, level design, and programming by that point while also respecting your understanding of the 3d space.
The idea to make a Forest Dungeon be themed around a HAUNTED CASTLE is so cool, I don't know why they didn't just go with some tree monsters and call it a day but I'm so glad they didn't. Ghosts, skeletons, castle courtyards, that's so fucking cool.
My complaints: The Forest Temple is just kinda bad? Other than the impressive visuals, the middle hub area is kind of tiresome and full of annoying backtracking that leads you to a locked door, which you'll go back and grab a key, only to reveal another locked door, and then you repeat this several times. One of the most poorly aged things about the game in my opinion is how cartoonishly slow Link can run at some times. It's very obvious in Hyrule Field and the Forest Temple. So much of the design has empty space to just walk and walk and walk with not much in between. It feels like an early draft they didn't get to fix. There are several rooms in the hub area that just lead to hallways with a Skulltulla that does nothing but take your time, and then goes to the room you wanted to go to.
All the enemies in that dungeon, aside from the Deku Baba plant things and the boss, are just games of waiting. They block, make you wait, then attack (and you attack them when they leave themselves open) rinse and repeat. Stalfos, the Flaming Skulls, the Skulltullas, the Poes, the Wolfos that linger outside of the dungeon entrance, they all do this. There is little to no enemy variation in that dungeon. It's annoying to deal with. If this was a small grievance, like if the traversal of the dungeon wasn't tedious, or the enemies didn't have you wait fifty years to do anything, I'd like it way more.
The other temples have similar things to this. The Water Temple has a few enemies that make you wait, backtracking, and a slow descent and ascent but I don't hate the water temple because it feels like it was designed to backtrack, there's much more enemy variation so it doesn't feel the same, and the slow ascent and descent feels intentional. (I'm not defending the pausing to use iron boots they should have fixed that) The Shadow Temple has similar enemy choices but with a streamlined level design and funner puzzle gimmicks, I never minded it.
Also Phantom Ganon is so cool. A piss easy boss if you know what you're doing, yeah, but it's a great introduction to Ganon's personality, a teaching lesson on how to fight final boss Ganon, and I'm so glad its not like a tree or a spider or something that would normally be a forest boss. It's a spirit that hides in paintings. That's fucking awesome.
That's my ramble about the forest temple being the weakest.
just finished the spirit temple, here's my tierlist on Ocarina of Time dungeons.
S Tier: Water Temple & Spirit Temple.
A Tier: Fire Temple
B: Jabu Jabu's Belly & Shadow Temple
C Tier: Dodongo's Cavern, That Ice Cave, and The Well
D Tier: Deku Tree, Gerudo Training Grounds, and Forest Temple
amandla
turnnoffyourmind
kianamaiart
