The Blue Lemon Tree

ASOIAF, SanSan Obsessions and Musings, and Fanfic. I'm Blue_Lemons on AO3.

[alanaisalive]

(this thread)

Had a bit of a rant this morning. Gender is a construct and biology is a joke. Trans lives matter.

[glitchhologram-deactivated20230]

“You don’t care what my biology is or what gender I am. You care that I’m not performing femininity to your standards.” 

That’s a fantastic way of putting it. It reminds me of that 2016 news story from 2016 of a woman, assigned female at birth, who was forced out of a women’s restroom by 3 male cops. She didn’t present as feminine in her baggy Men’s section clothes, short hair, and backwards baseball cap and that was enough “proof” to call the cops and drag her off. 

This is why TERF ideology is so self-destructive. TERF’s claim they’re “pro-women, pro-female empowerment, pro-keeping women safe” but put into practice, it harms AFAB women as well as trans women.  When women are told “you should conform more to patriarchal beauty standards or you deserve harassment”, forced to present their ID (containing their home address) to “prove” their gender, when the women’s restroom fills with male cops to drag out someone for being suspiciously androgynous. 

That isn’t Feminist at all! It’s an anti-woman stance. 

Excluding Transgender Women from Female Empowerment is Counter-Intuitive to the Cause! Trans Women are Women! Policing Gender Expression is Regressive! 

[gayfeatherfiend]

Yeah. I listened to a self-identified Black butch lesbian talk about how a white woman called the police on her for being in the bathroom and the white male officer asked to feel her chest to “prove” she was a woman.

The Black butch - cis - lesbian was giving this talk at an anti-bathroom bill rally by the way. She was revealing this horrible story to the audience to make them understand what transphobia really is, and really does. And yes it is related to racism.

Seriously. FUCK. TERFS.

[lurker-no-more]

Every part of this. And this. Love y’all.

In every red state there are people (many of whose names we never hear) fighting their hearts out. And they get important but less publicized wins at the state/local/policy level. The national Democratic orgs need to elevate and invest in their work, full stop.

[moonlightsdream]

Director Emile Ardolino encouraged the actors and actresses to improvise, and often kept the cameras rolling, even if actors and actresses went “off script”. One example of this was the scene where Jennifer Grey was to stand in front of Patrick Swayze with her back to him and put her arm up behind his head while he trailed his fingers down her arm (similar to the pose seen in the movie poster). Though it was written as a serious and tender moment, Grey was exhausted, found the move ticklish, and could not stop giggling each time Swayze tried it, no matter how many takes Ardolino asked for. Swayze was impatient to finish the scene, and found Grey’s behavior annoying. However, the producers decided the scene worked as it was and put it into the film, complete with Grey’s giggling and Swayze’s annoyed expression. It became one of the most famous scenes in the movie, turning out, as choreographer Kenny Ortega put it, “as one of the most delicate and honest moments in the film.”

DIRTY DANCING (1987) ⌊ dir. emile ardolino ⌉  

[guerrillatech]

[unrealunearths]

fandom extremists need to absolutely fucking stop. there is now a petition going around (that is getting traction) to fire a female writer from house of the dragon because she said something fans don’t like about daemon. do you realize how fucking insane that is??? we have desperately wanted representative writers for years and years… finally there are more bipoc, women, lgbtq individuals, etc. in some writers rooms, and if they don’t absolutely subscribe to bullshit fanfiction, people harass them until they delete their accounts, change their plotlines, or even lose their jobs. i know this post won’t stop anyone from acting horrifically, but it’s got to stop. you don’t have to watch that goddamn show if it offends you so much. but thinking your fanfic is reality (again, it’s all fiction!) and actively trying to ruin real people’s lives is so beyond not okay.

[thebluelemontree]

PSA

I need to close the inbox for a little while out of fairness to everyone. I have things in real life that need immediate attention, and I'd like to work more on my podcast with @littlewolfbird and write fan fiction. I'm still going to work on answering asks I already have as best I can. But to prevent more piling up and anxiety over things that are supposed to be fun, I need to pause on taking more asks. Thanks. <3 If you would like to check out the podcast, you can find it here on Anchor and all the ways to listen.

[atomic-chronoscaph]

Legend (1985)

[la-mannakana]

He is no true knight but he saved me all the same, she told the Mother. Save him if you can, and gentle the rage inside him.

- A Clash of Kings by George R. R. Martin

Left version is “plain,” right version has yarrow flowers symbolizing healing and protection.

[ruebella-b]

“When her kiss transforms the Beast, she is furious. “You should have warned me! Here I was smitten by an exceptional being, and all of a sudden, my fiance becomes an ordinary distinguished young man!””

— the 1909 play Beauty and the Beast:  Fantasy in Two Acts by Fernand Noziere, the very first published version of the story where the Beauty is disappointed when the Beast transforms into a human at the end. (via corseque)

[thebluelemontree]

What the actual fuck. I've just been scrolling over my morning coffee and got THREE extremely hateful terf blog posts recommended to me "based on my likes." Really vile transphobic hate mongering stuff. Not even subtle about it. I have never liked any such content. I follow asoiaf blogs and never had anything turn up on my feed like that before, but in one morning, three recommended in a row? 🤨

[2nowfort]

[thebluelemontree]

Hey thanks for the nuanced Arys Oakheart answer, I really appreciate it! There seems to be this strange refusal from other posters here to even attempt to put themselves in Arys’ shoes when discussing his arc and character, so it was really cool to see a fresh take. Thanks again!

You're very welcome in regards to this post. I think George's narrative is quite sympathetic towards Arys (and many others) and at the same time uncompromising on what Arys should do by choosing to accept the white cloak. He never should have been a kingsguard to begin with, but who tells you that when you're joining your childhood heroes you may be called upon one day to beat a twelve-year-old girl? Who tells you what really lies ahead with that job? No one. You believe in the myth. You think the cloak is going to make you the best version of yourself and it turns out to be the opposite. Oftentimes, it shows you the man you really are. It's tragic to discover well into your tenure you don't actually have what it takes when it really counts. But he knew what he should do and he swore an oath to live by those ideals, so he's still held to a higher standard. A lot of judgment he receives is well-earned, like with beating Sansa. Except I do think George is particularly sympathetic to his falling for Arianne. George is a hippie of the free love era. The criticism of celibacy being unhealthy and unnatural is all over asoiaf. Again, it's tragic that his longing for a wife should be awakened now and not much earlier in life. His time spent with Myrcella makes him think of her as the only daughter he will ever have. If he had to live his life all over again, I bet he would instead marry a daughter from one of his mother's bannermen, have a couple of kids, and live a nice quiet life. He probably would have been exemplary at normal, everyday decency.

[thebluelemontree]

What do you think happened to the remaining women at Craster’s keep?

Their prospects don't look good. Nine mutineers remained at Craster's Keep after the mutiny. They may be forced to serve them. It's hard to say if the wives would plot a rebellion such as killing the men in their sleep. They outnumbered Craster nineteen to one, but Craster's cult-like psychological control kept his daughter-wives from ever raising a hand against him. I'm not blaming them. They are largely cut off from other people. Craster indoctrinated them to believe he is a godly man and their sacrifices to the cold gods (the Others) are their only source of safety in a hostile world. He has conditioned them to believe this is what freedom looks like and everywhere else lies the barbarity of slavery when clearly it's the opposite. Where else could they go? The NW may have a tenuous alliance with Craster, but his wives would never be welcomed at the Wall or allowed to go south. Why should they not expect to find more of the same depraved animals that terrorized them at the Wall? They also are rejected by other Free Folk for their incestuous breeding, which was nothing they chose of their own free will. They are cursed just for being born one of Craster's children. No clan will take them in. There is also the problem of the Others' escalating presence and they are pretty much out of sons to keep their gods appeased. With Craster dead and the center of their world collapsed, it's hard to say how they will process this new reality. I'm not saying they blissfully drank the kool-aid because none of them seem happy with their lot. It's just that the outside world seems so much crueler and dangerously unpredictable compared to the prison they were accustomed to. I don't see how they have any good options moving forward, and I wouldn't expect them to survive much longer no matter what they did. :(

[justsomeguycore]

also while i’m ranting about gender i always see debate about whether girls are rewarded for being tomboys or not and it’s like. actually girls are rewarded for mirroring whatever the situation demands of them. girls can’t be too prissy and refuse to play in the creek, but girls also can’t show up to girly events covered in mud. girls can’t have makeup art as a hobby or else they’re superficial, but if they never wear makeup they’re a slob and dumpy, etc. it’s not that girls are universally rewarded or punished for being tomboys, they’re rewarded for bending over backwards to always be exactly right for any given situation and punished for breaking those boundaries. so yes a classically pretty girl who cleans up nice is rewarded when she can ALSO be a tomboy. but a girl who is a tomboy all the time is definitely punished for never being able to achieve that prerequisite feminine side. this debate is over now thanks

[lousyfuckingratboy]

this is spot on. A woman's masculinity is rewarded as long as it doesn't conflict with being heteronormatively attractive and as long as the masculinity plays harmonising second fiddle to the masculinity of the men around her.

[stripedroseandsketchpads]

Essentially the goalposts for girls and women move situationally and based on who wants what because at the end of the day under patriarchy the only correct female presentation/behavior is “what is demanded of her/obedience”

[thebluelemontree]

Do you think Arys Oakheart had the necessary skill and temperament to be an effective Lord Commander of the Kingsguard? Meaning both in general as well as the present circumstances in Kings Landing

No. Not at all. Arys's personality is very go-along-to-get-along. Skillwise, he's good enough of a knight to be given a white cloak. He's handsome and polite, so he lends that polish and social grace to the rougher elements of the kingsguard roster. He's sufficiently obedient by Joffrey and Cersei's standards but doesn't have the spine or heartlessness to be the kind of tool they prefer. He follows Joffrey's cue and laughs along at Barristan Selmy's disgrace, but he also feels kinda bad about hitting Sansa. Bad enough to muster a little protest, but not bad enough that would risk being disciplined by refusing. So he splits the difference by not hitting her as hard as everyone else. Little by little, small compromises in values lead to becoming compromised. In under six months, Arys is seduced by Arianne Martell and turns rogue against King Tommen when he is persuaded to support Myrcella's claim to the Iron Throne. His whole chapter as The Soiled Knight has him torn apart by his conflicting desires to both wear the white cloak with honor and tear it and its burdens off. It was easier before to wear the cloak when he merely needed to obey the decisions of others, but now that he's far away in a foreign court and forced to make decisions for himself, not so much. What he discovers about himself in Dorne is that he chooses his lover over his kingsguard vows more and more. When Arianne suggests he could have both her and his white cloak under Queen Myrcella... it just feels wrong. So wrong, and yet it would also resolve this terrible conflict within himself, wouldn't it? Oh boy... I don't think you can call any of this leadership material by any standard. The man is dying for someone to provide him an escape hatch from being made to choose. There is a lot of irony to being named Oakheart as if his character and his sense of honor were as strong and stalwart as the mighty tree itself. I will give Arys this: he is far more self-reflective than Barristan Selmy about who and what he has served and more honest about what his own failings have led to. He knows he doesn't have the mettle for what a kingsguard is supposed to stand for, and never did. He was built for a simpler man's life and it's tragic that wasn't his fate. There is no way for him to live as a kingsguard without his heart letting him down at every turn and making him feel soiled and unworthy. He can't make his feelings for Arianne stop. They've awakened in him a longing for a life he can't have. He can't renounce the cloak without shame and disgrace either. When things come to a head, he sees only one escape hatch, one choice, available to him to resolve this crisis and regain his sense of honor and self-worth:

We are taken, ser, Arianne might have called out. Your death will not free us. If you love your princess, yield. But when she tried to speak, the words caught in her throat.

Ser Arys Oakheart gave her one last longing look, then put his golden spurs into his horse and charged. -- The Queenmaker, AFFC.

Ugh. I feel sad now. No, he's not a leader. He was misplaced in the kingsguard. He's a mostly decent, but entirely too passive man who was unfortunate enough to serve bad rulers and was ill-equipped to stand up for himself or others. He was built for love, not duty. And he was harder on himself than anyone else was, and it broke him.

[thebluelemontree]

Any chance a victorious post-Blackwater Stannis Baratheon would let Tyrion Lannister, if he was captured during the battle and requested it, join the Nights Watch, in your opinion?

I highly doubt it. Stannis has no problem with honest men fighting for Joffrey wrongfully believing him to be their true king. He can even grudgingly eke out forgiveness and pardons for the lords who supported Renly because he needs their swords, but he will not forget they knowingly bent their knees to a usurper first. Tyrion is in neither of those camps. For the Lannisters, there would be no such mercy. Fifteen years ago, Stannis would have thought the Wall appropriate for Jaime Lannister, who received a full pardon from Robert for killing King Aerys. But in the present day? No way. Not after the pile of corruption, murder, incest, and treason has built up sky-high. Stannis is not fucking around anymore and swears to take out all the trash:

"I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done, after the Trident. Ser Barristan once told me that the rot in King Aerys's reign began with Varys. The eunuch should never have been pardoned. No more than the Kingslayer. At the least, Robert should have stripped the white cloak from Jaime and sent him to the Wall, as Lord Stark urged. He listened to Jon Arryn instead. I was still at Storm's End, under siege and unconsulted." Cersei, Jaime, and the kids are going to be executed without question. Tyrion is never mentioned by name as committing a particular crime in Stannis's eyes, but I can't imagine a reason why his sentence would be different than his siblings. Other than being a dwarf which means he's doubly screwed anyway, the main strike against him is that he was the architect of defending a usurping abomination's stolen crown at the Blackwater. Looking back to the conversation between Catelyn and Stannis about Jon Arryn's murder, does it sound like Stannis really cares if Tyrion gets lumped in by default with Cersei's alleged crimes either?

Catelyn was remembering, fitting pieces together. "My sister Lysa accused the queen of killing her husband in a letter she sent me at Winterfell," she admitted. "Later, in the Eyrie, she laid the murder at the feet of the queen's brother Tyrion."

Stannis snorted. "If you step in a nest of snakes, does it matter which one bites you first?" -- Catelyn III, ACOK.

Stannis was working with Jon Arryn on gathering proof to reveal the incest to Robert, but Jon winds up dead. Silencing Jon Arryn (and later Ned Stark) critically hampered Stannis's claim as Robert's lawful heir. If Stannis needed more of an excuse, he can always say Tyrion's name was dropped by Jon Arryn's widow in connection with that crime. That's probably enough to condemn him. Just kill 'em all and let R'hllor sort 'em out.

[thebluelemontree]

Do you think animation could hold the key to a 100% completely faithful adaption of the ASOIAF books?

Sort of? Great animation is a powerful medium for fantasy and epic storytelling. As much as I would truly love to see an animated series of ASOIAF, how can anyone say it would be a "100% faithful" adaptation without a finished book series? Sure, you could do an animated series and it could be fantastic and satisfying on every level. And dare I say, it could even turn out to be better than the source material in some ways; however, it would still be a version of the story. I don't think any adaptation is ever 100% faithful, nor does it need to be to be a masterpiece on its own. It is necessary for adaptations to make cuts and changes for it to be successful with a new and wider audience. It's a business venture after all.

Not that I know a lot about animation, but I'm sure it has it's own unique challenges of costs and production. You need someone at the helm that knows how to navigate the realities of translating a story to a different medium while still making the finished product at least true to the spirit of the original. As with many classics in the fantasy genre, sometimes the source material has a lot of outdated ideas that need to be reworked for a more modern audience. How race is handled in ASOIAF definitely needs more thought and improvement. And I'll give the show this much: it made no bones about Renly and Loras's relationship, which was the right call, even if the way it was handled thereafter was garbage. There is no reason to play coy with queer characters in 2022, let alone down the road when an animated series could theoretically be made. LBR, I don't know how you would get around the way more problematic shit without aging up the younger POVs more or toning some things way down. Even with an animated version, recapturing the nuance of what GRRM was going for is going to be a tough sell to even a hardened adult audience. Visual mediums just hit different, IMO, and you won't have the added context of those stories being told through a first-person POV. Again, you need someone at the helm who can anticipate how certain things will come across to the audience and who knows how to make appropriate changes when they are necessary. You cannot assume the audience has read the books or ever will. An adaption has to stand on its own feet.

Also, there are things in ASOIAF that are hotly debated topics to this day. The author intentionally left some things ambiguous, open-ended, and up to readers to ponder over. How do you decide what is the faithful interpretation? At a certain point, an adaptation is going to have to take a stand and assert its own point of view and not everyone may agree with it. (That's putting it mildly for the way the internet fandom gets a bee in its bonnet over anything.) That's fine. I don't want an adaptation that is enslaved to the illusory notion of 100% faithful to its own detriment. Besides being impossible to achieve, it's not the only way to earn the audience's trust and loyalty. Just showing you understand the genre and themes, and allowing your love for it to shine through can go a long way with winning your audience over. Committing to your vision as a creator and being thoughtful and consistent with the themes and internal logic of your storytelling is great, too. I don't think the solution to a adaptation with a lot of changes you disliked is to overcorrect into accepting nothing less than a strict adherence to the books as if they were sacred texts. I totally get that sentiment, though, if that's how you were feeling. I love the books with my whole heart, I do. Artists and creators still need to be free to take some risks, add their own touches, and make their own judgement calls to keep a story living and breathing with future generations. Especially if the book series is never officially completed, which is a real possibility. This fandom runs as strong as it does because we have different people bringing their insights and depth of knowledge to the table. We think a lot about how adaptations can go wrong when they aren't faithful, but rarely do we consider what could be gained from having something new and different. But if we only want the story as GRRM intended, we just need to reread the books.