The Witch's Brew of Nonsense

Welcome to the witch's coffeehouse Here we serve coffee, pastries, warm beverages Rambling about games, dark magic principles All sorts of delights Keep in touch if you're an Undertale/Deltarune/Sonic fan Or if you're just here for a drink

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

The Shelter Gang and Carol's Sacrifice (Deltarune theory/analysis) (Part 2!)

Welcome back to the Witch's Brew. Today we're serving some delightfully dense brookies (we hope you brushed your teeth this morning) and some much lighter ice teas to go with 'em. Get comfy, because this is part 2 of our Deltarune Tomorrow-fest!

Today I want to talk about Asgore and Carol's plan. I found myself digging deeper into this rabbit hole, and it genuinely began to fascinate me about this "sacrifice". It would explain so much, but if you really want the bulk of it, then come and read on. You only have so much time before Chapter 5 releases, and all of this becomes null.

Asgore's Role and the Dark Festival

With Chapter 5 being a major turning point, being the day of the Festival, where the lot of Hometown will be congregated, the perfect setting for something MAJOR to happen. So I doubt Chapter 5 is just gonna be Asgore in his own Dark World sitting on his fat bum being mad about the divorce and Sans boning ur mom XD

No, Asgore clearly has an agenda he needs to fulfill. And judging by the fancy Black Shard he has, and how he seeks to bring everyone together again as a "happy family", it's pretty obvious. He wants to hunt down the Knight to bring Dess back, restoring the family unit.

And because Weird Route stuff implies Chapter 5 will take place at the Festival, we can assume that there's gonna be multiple Dark Worlds created across the festival starting with the Flower King. And Chapter 5 will be a chase from Dark World to Dark World.

It's a pretty baller premise, if you ask me, and the "chase" aspect would make total sense as Susie's afraid they're losing time. They need to find Undyne pronto. And I don't want to hold off finding Undyne for that long.

And not only is Susie taking things urgently, so is Asgore.

And seemingly, so is Kris, Carol and the Knight.

The Antithesis Between Asgore and Carol---and WHY it'll be important

In my original predictions, I didn't consider what would happen to Rudy. I eventually subscribed to common consensus that Gerson's revival was a Chekhov's gun, and that Rudy would die at the Festival, but a good ol' Dark Fountain would bring him back.

However, a lot of people think about Noelle's reaction, but not Asgore and Carol, two characters he's close with who will play major roles in the following chapter!

While Carol and Asgore seemingly have the same motivation of finding Dess and restoring the ideal family unit, they seem very antithetical. Well of course they are, Carol is icy and abrasive, Asgore is a warm and joyous man. Ice vs fire. But I imagine what will REALLY be important, is their reactions to Rudy's death.

Asgore believes that if Dess is brought back, everything will come back together and restore the times of old. But if Rudy dies, that would absolutely cripple Asgore, not just at the permanent loss of the good ol' days, but at his best friend leaving his side forever.

So at Asgore's lowest point, the Fun Gang will help him not give in to the darkness. Standing strong in Rudy's honour, and for the people that need him, is all Asgore can really do! Like, what's he gonna do, sacrifice someone?

Police. . .Sacrifice. . .Tomorrow?!

When it came to predicting Deltarune, I actually left the sacrifice in the air because it's possible it could happen in Chapters 6 or 7, or just not happen at all. After all, they said it was "next week".

But then consider that the "Roaring Gang"'s plans got compromised spectacularly by Susie getting the guitar, forcing Carol to come home much earlier, and the Knight to open the Fountain in late afternoon than tonight, like they'd originally planned. And the caller tells Kris that tomorrow, they need something done. Something Kris had promised.

So, it's gotta be the sacrifice that involved Undyne, right? But it's next week! Surely the Knight has other plans than just the sacrifice? Well, no, I can prove the sacrifice will be happening at the festival. (Also I just wanna find Undyne already, and Deltarune isn't exactly slow with their pacing.)

If you subscribe to ROOTS theory, you'll know that the third Mantle minigame reflects Hometown's layout and residents. And judging by the Weird Route in Chapter 5 seemingly taking place AT the Festival, we can assume this massacre will happen in Chapter 5.

But one thing I want to point out, is that there are three specific monsters you have to kill in order to escape a room.

The Antithesis Between Asgore and Carol---and WHY it'll be important

In my original predictions, I didn't consider what would happen to Rudy. I eventually subscribed to common consensus that Gerson's revival was a Chekhov's gun, and that Rudy would die at the Festival, but a good ol' Dark Fountain would bring him back.

However, a lot of people think about Noelle's reaction, but not Asgore and Carol, two characters he's close with who will play major roles in the following chapter!

While Carol and Asgore seemingly have the same motivation of finding Dess and restoring the ideal family unit, they seem very antithetical. Well of course they are, Carol is icy and abrasive, Asgore is a warm and joyous man. Ice vs fire. But I imagine what will REALLY be important, is their reactions to Rudy's death.

Asgore believes that if Dess is brought back, everything will come back together and restore the times of old. But if Rudy dies, that would absolutely cripple Asgore, not just at the permanent loss of the good ol' days, but at his best friend leaving his side forever.

So at Asgore's lowest point, the Fun Gang will help him not give in to the darkness. Standing strong in Rudy's honour, and for the people that need him, is all Asgore can really do! Like, what's he gonna do, sacrifice someone?

Police. . .Sacrifice. . .Tomorrow?!

When it came to predicting Deltarune, I actually left the sacrifice in the air because it's possible it could happen in Chapters 6 or 7, or just not happen at all. After all, they said it was "next week".

But then consider that the "Roaring Gang"'s plans got compromised spectacularly by Susie getting the guitar, forcing Carol to come home much earlier, and the Knight to open the Fountain in late afternoon than tonight, like they'd originally planned. And the caller tells Kris that tomorrow, they need something done. Something Kris had promised.

So, it's gotta be the sacrifice that involved Undyne, right? But it's next week! Surely the Knight has other plans than just the sacrifice? Well, no, I can prove the sacrifice will be happening at the festival. (Also I just wanna find Undyne already, and Deltarune isn't exactly slow with their pacing.)

If you subscribe to ROOTS theory, you'll know that the third Mantle minigame reflects Hometown's layout and residents. And judging by the Weird Route in Chapter 5 seemingly taking place AT the Festival, we can assume this massacre will happen in Chapter 5.

But one thing I want to point out, is that there are three specific monsters you have to kill in order to escape a room.

A golden trident-wielder, a grey fish, and a black deer. All clearly referring to Asgore, Undyne and Dess respectively. Two of whom have Shelter Codes. And two of whom are currently missing, presumably due to the Knight's machinations. So obviously, that leaves us with one conclusion.

Asgore, too, has a Shelter code. And the Knight has been attempting to capture him, too. I assume Asgore walking away with a Black Shard indicates a direct confrontation didn't go well, so the Knight's trying to draw him out instead by capturing Toriel, opening a Fountain in the Church, where both Toriel and Asgore would've been that night.

So that means the Kris we control in the minigame isn't meant to be our Kris---it's meant to be the Knight. It's the Knight who's got Undyne and is hunting down Asgore.

OK, we solved who holds the Shelter codes, but what about why they were given, and why the Knight is hunting them down?

It goes back to the subject of this subheading;

Think about what happens to those three Monsters in the Mantle minigames (Asgore, Undyne and Dess). They are all killed. . .to escape a room. The Knight needs to sacrifice the Shelter key-holders to escape the Prophecy. So why were they even given the Shelter codes in the first place? Were they intentionally invited as cannon fodder?

No. I think it's the opposite. When you look at the Shelter codes, you'll realize that anyone whom those codes are tailored for are extremely powerful characters.

The pine tree refers to the Holiday family; Noelle and Carol are very powerful, and Dess had to be strong enough to qualify as the second hero

The police badge refers to Hometown's police force; Undyne can lift CARS

The DELTA RUNE refers to either a member of Church or someone related to the Angel; Asgore fits both (if the Angel really is Kris) and is cracked enough to own a Black Shard

So, knowing that whoever had a Code would be a sacrifice worthy of freeing the Knight, Gaster gave Codes only to the strongest Monsters that could hold their own against the Knight, preventing them from being used as a sacrifice at all. Or, maybe they're just his most trusted from Undertale.

But then we run into a gaping gap: what about Dess? Dess is currently lost beyond lost, and even if she were to be found, there's no way Carol would willingly sacrifice her daughter.

To that, I point back to the black deer that represents Dess in the Mantle minigames. The game's code for this enemy has a weird variable that replaces the black deer sprite with the typical black monster sprite we see in-game; variable name Toriel.

In place of Dess, either Rudy or Toriel will serve as Carol's sacrifice instead, and this might be a crucial turning point that makes Kris turn on Carol alongside Susie and Noelle, for the quintessential Carol boss fight.

. . .Although, Kris isn't the only one who's gonna betray Carol.

If you remember how I referenced yon Mantle minigames, you may remember the use of an ice mage to get to the Shelter Key.

An ice mage. . .

Huh. . .

And perhaps when the Knight breaks free from the Prophecy, the Shelter Gang left unneeded, Gaster will finally try and succeed at bringing Dess back from whatever Backrooms she was sent to. In an attempt to salvage the Prophecy, bring back the Shelter Gang, and lock the Knight to the Prophecy again.

How the Shelter Gang Supports Chara-Knight

Remember how I said Dess, Undyne and Asgore getting killed to escape the room indicated that this isn't Kris we're playing as, but the Knight? It puts a lot of other things into perspective, too. Like the first and second Mantle minigames.

If HERO!SWORD Kris is meant to be the Knight, then that would mean the second ice mage isn't specifically Noelle, it's Carol. Which makes perfect sense. It could still refer to Kris and Noelle in the Weird Route, but Kris is pretty similar to the Knight anyway.

So. . .what about the first Mantle minigame? It clearly refers to Undertale's original Genocide Route, the blue fish (Undyne), the golden-trident wielders (Asgore) and the violet monsters (Toriel). And the flowers that clearly represent Flowey. How would the Knight be involved in all this? How would the Knight somehow commit the Genocide Route?

Because Chara (the same one from Undertale's Genocide Route) is the Roaring Knight. For you guys who have followed my work, y'all will know I'm a staunch Chara-Knight propagandist (fellow Chara-Knighters stay strong o7) and when we look through this perspective, everything starts to make sense.

The first minigame is their past in the Genocide Route, the second minigame is their present as the Roaring Knight using Carol as their ice mage (and having moved on to the next world in Deltarune), the third minigame being their future, presumably the shenanigans they'll be up to in Chapter 5.

Furthermore, Chara being the Knight explains so much about them. The Knight resembles a Titan, both of whom have a drive to destroy the world? Chara does that after the Genocide Route regardless of the path you choose.

The Knight's weapon is always called a knife? Chara is most associated with knives. The Knight roars in scarlet? So does Chara before destroying the world. The Knight resembles a corpse? Chara's literally undead. The Knight resembles the Angel? Chara qualifies as Undertale's "Angel of Death" after returning to empty the Underground.

The Knight has antlers and a bat? We know the Knight likely knew Dess, and since Chara preferred Monsters over humanity, they adopted more monster traits from a character whom they identified with a lot. (Dess is rather similar to Chara.)

The Knight's signature trait is their white grin? Chara's signature is their smile.

And Chara being the Knight/the Angel makes sense when you consider Gaster's motivation for creating DELTARUNE. Back in his universe, the Delta Rune boasted an Angel, who saw the Surface and would return to clear the Underground; and whom Gerson stated Monsters have feared to be the "Angel of Death" who would "free" them from their mortal realm. Which is just a vaguely comforting phrasing of annihilation.

What if Gaster were one of these Monsters who feared the Angel of Death's wrath, and escaped to a universe that would herald that Angel's banishment? After all, the Angel of Death did destroy the world; hence, Chara Dreemurr.

Buuuuut I'm rambling. I would say "this theory is insane and probably wouldn't work at all", but the only thing holding it back is fandom fluff. It still explains a lot.

The second voice that exists alongside Gaster, who replaced the Vessel with Kris, who talked to Spamton and Jevil before Gaster and left them for dead, who talks to the player in the 'thankyou' ARG like a smug therapist. The voice's manipulative tendencies and way of speaking, and doing all that sabotage in favor of the Knight, sounds a lot like Chara.

Chara instructing the player to "send this world back into the abyss" on a subsequent Genocide Route is interesting, especially considering Deltarune, a next world to Undertale, first opens in a place called the Depths. And keep in mind, this is stated after the completion of a Genocide Route---where Chara "erases this world and moves on to the next". Hmm. . .I wonder what the next world is.

I know I've GONE TOO FAR and you might not be FALLING FOR THAT SH*T, but I'm a theorist, and I'm going the extra mile. You're welcome. This side tangent isn't that important to this theory, but Chara-Knight is just one of my favorite theories. Even if it isn't true, it still gives us an interesting baseline on what an extended Chara villain arc could've been. Also, the Knight will still be cool as all heck.

December Holiday is. . .US?!

I've postulated before that Dess is the original second hero personally recruited by Gaster, but I think something about Dess we can all be sure of is that she's lost in the code. It's not just the UNUSED code that references "late-night TV" (especially with everything we know about Tenna and the Dreemurr-Holiday festivities), but the Sweepstakes imply that Dess' situation is code-related, with this "hyperlink blocked" site bearing her name.

BTW, if you change the name to "dess" it redirects to a real page leading to a red guitar. It plays "findher.ogg".

And it's not just that. There's also the 1225 room in Chapter 3, the weird guitar noise in Chapter 4 that can only be discovered through backtracking, and then through dipping into the code. So, I'm inclined to believe the UNUSED speaker is, in fact, Dess.

The citation of "late night TV" is especially incriminating with what we know about the Dreemurr-Holiday festivities with Tenna.

If you've seen my theory about Dess being the second hero, then Dess going "UNUSED" makes perfect sense. But what about "finding her"?

OK, let's think back for a second. In the Mantle minigames, it looks like the Knight's gonna do the finding for us, and somehow open the barrier that frees Dess. But then, in the minigame. . .we somehow control Dess??? And then it locks the Knight back into the Prophecy again so they have to kill her??? Or rather, Kris has to???

Here's a crazy suggestion; what if Dess ends up being our new Vessel?

Dess is lost in the code. To "find her", we'd have to cross the boundaries of Deltarune's established reality to do so. What if, when the Knight ejects the SOUL from Kris' body, we'll be able to move around aimlessly? But eventually, we make it out of bounds. And we keep going, and we keep going, and we keep going, until---

I just used this panel for demonstrative purposes, it could still literally refer to anything. Susie finding love in Noelle, either Susie or Noelle becoming our new vessel, or Noelle becoming our new Vessel in the Weird Route and this is the last Prophecy to come true before it's frozen over.

But still, I believe our Vessel changing from Kris (Knight) to the black deer (Dess) definitely means something. It would be an extremely interesting way to "find" Dess, and it'll be even more interesting when in the wake of Dess' disappearance, when Dess finally comes home, when she finally returns---it's to a ravaged world that succumbed to the apocalypse she was supposed to stop.

Not to mention the UNUSED code AND Raise Up Your Bat's lyrics suggests that the relationship between Dess and the Player will be important.

Anyone. . .if you can hear me. . .thank you.

Are we just rizzing up everybody in Deltarune now

The ROARING Shelter Gang?!

But how will our "sacrifice" part of this story end? What's gonna happen to the Shelter Gang at the end of this tale? Will the Knight actually sacrifice them to break the Prophecy?

What if the Knight themselves doesn't do it? Let's look at the Mantle minigame monsters again; the golden trident-wielder, the grey fish, and the black deer. Why is the fish---Undyne---grey? And why is the deer not just black, but obscured by the "black monster" sprite? From my thesis so far I don't think it represents our current Knight, but it has to represent something.

Let's look at this panel for a moment.

Doesn't something seem, hmm, interesting about the particular Titans shown here? Two leaner Titans closer to the Knight's design, and one giant Titan who bears a particular pair of horns. Some believe that Asgore will be transformed into a Titan (a Roaring Knight, is what I like to call sentient Titans), but I don't think that's gonna happen before Deltarune ends, if the minigames are any indication.

But I do believe that Dess, being transformed into a black monster, symbolizes that she will be transformed into a Titan---or rather, a Roaring Knight. The same will go for Undyne, but since she's only greyed out and not fully blackened, it indicates that her Determination allows her to resist the Titan stuff. Asgore might not have been transformed yet, but, here's my hypothesis;

What if the Knight transforms the Shelter Gang into Titans, whom the Fun Gang has to banish by closing a Fountain? Essentially, tricking them into fulfilling the sacrifice for them?

I imagine Dess got transformed into a new Roaring Knight willingly. It would be a pretty interesting turn of events if Dess finally came back, Dess was finally found, returning to a world that became INFINITELY worse trying to save her. So to protect what remains of her family, she offers herself as Angel!Kris' new Roaring Knight. A Roaring Knight NEO, should we put her parallels to Spamton and Ralsei into full swoon.

The Answer to DELTARUNE; the power of three

Now, when writing this theory, I still had one question; why does the Knight even have this plan? Surely, through Kris, they already have a plan to derail the Prophecy. Why do they need Carol or the Shelter Gang?

Maybe these are just multiple steps in an even more complicated plan? Maybe they need all three to actually work? But I doubt Undyne and Asgore actually get sacrificed.

And then I realized the Knight isn't the only one trying to break the Prophecy. There are three secret sidequests in Deltarune, if you've seen my last post. And the Knight has not only three minigames that allude to their plans---but three of those plans.

These plans and those sidequests mirror each other.

The Shadow Crystal storyline? References Kris with the creation of the TwistedSword and the obtainment of freedom. The Weird Route? References their use of Carol. The Egg rooms? Possibly the Shelter Gang. I mean, you can find the Forgotten Man out of bounds, and who's literally out of bounds? Dess!

Each and every one of these, seemingly culminate in Chapter 5.

It was never the Prophecy that was unbreakable and inevitable; it was the Knight breaking it. "There was only one more chapter, and then. . .it all stopped."

But surely, the Prophecy still holds importance, if the end of Chapter 4 is any indication! And there's still one more chapter after Chapter 5, so the Prophecy couldn't be stopped yet!

W.D Gaster. Chapter 6 might be the Chapter where we finally meet him, the author getting engulfed in his own story; and to remedy everything, he attempts to restitch the Prophecy again, which would cost Ralsei's life. So Susie and whatever remains of the Fun Gang confront the doctor for the fate of Ralsei.

-----

But y'know what? I could just be spouting nonsense. Maybe Dess is the Knight and the Mantle minigames are actually telling me something else! Maybe the sacrifice involves Asriel if it's gonna happen next week! Maybe Kris was never the Knight's trump card and they needed them to find Dess to use as a sacrifice and ditch 'em later!

I'll admit it, it's hard to fit in my theories and speculations into predictions that completely make sense. But in a way, that's OK. Theorizing isn't just meant to be right and to gain a superiority complex about it. It's just meant to appreciate what the game laid out for us, and write our own stories spun from what we have. Gerson always did like going the wrong way to get better ideas; and our ideas may not be DELTARUNE's story, but it is our story.

Whatever Toby makes in the end, I'm sure it'll be amazing. Even if it's not what we expected at all.

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

Why is Deltarune so weird? (Deltarune Analysis/theory) (Part 1!)

Welcome back to the Witch's Brew, and let's skip the pleasantries. We all know what we're here for.

Art by me

DELTARUNE. TOMORROW.

This is not a drill, Chapter 5, the apex in which hungry Deltarune fans like myself have been waiting for, is oh so very close. And to think, Chapters 3+4 had thrown us off our feet just last year! I'm somewhat gonna miss this era, because now that our theories are much closer to the truth, and that we're getting closer to the end, it fascinated me to see everyone's different ideas on Deltarune's future.

We had SEVEN CHAPTERS of amazing characters and rich storytelling, with countless secrets to boot! And that got me thinking; surely Deltarune already has enough easter eggs and secrets and stuff that complements the game metanarratively.

Why do we need all this other fluff? Like the Shadow Crystals if we already have the Weird Route? Or the Egg rooms existing? Or the Mantle minigames and their relation to Kris and the Knight?

Join us today as we crack each of them open, like an egg.

The Shadow Crystals and the Pure Crystal

Honestly, the Shadow Crystal storyline is something that isn't difficult for me to piece together.

Where do they come from? Well, if you know the "fallen star" text, then I believe that the "fallen star" is literal. Because when you cause the "star" on the Titan's face to "fall", there's weird black stuff leaking out of its' orifice. Its' "tears".

I believe that is what the Shadow Crystals are made out of. Not necessarily just the Titan's tears, but Titan. . .stuff. The Pure Crystal's description is "the shadow purified by the cat", and purifying is something related to the Titanspawn.

But why was the Shadow Crystal storyline implemented at all? It seems that it's leading up to the TwistedSword's creation, but I refuse to believe all the buildup, all the fighting of secret bosses, is just for the sake of a weapon with a slightly higher AT stat.

So what is the Shadow Crystal sidequest about, then? Well, I think it's quite obvious if the holders are any indication. Freedom.

We've heard the Freedom motif analysis before; Jevil thinks he is free, Spamton wants to be free, Gerson knows he is free. Chapter 3 seems to be the exception, with ERAM as an especially unique secret boss, and the Knight possessing the Shadow Crystal, yet neither of them have the Freedom motif. Both of them seem to mirror Kris, and ERAM alludes that Kris is searching for the Shadow Crystals too.

For. . .fun? Or rather. . .freedom, like the actual underlying theme of the Shadow Crystal sidequest? Freedom from what? It doesn't really make sense for Kris attempting to be free from us, we're looking for the Shadow Crystals too---if anything Kris is the one who wants it and our goals just happen to align. And it doesn't make sense for them to be free from the Knight, either, they're actively working together?

Maybe to be free from the Prophecy? Well, sure, but that's moreso the goal of the Fun Gang and the sidequest itself.

But what if that's exactly that? And if the Prophecy is broken, it'll allow Kris to. . .do what nefarious activities are revealed to them in the Sword Route minigames?

Wait. . .Sword Route?!

That's the official name?!

If I'm remembering correctly, the Shadow Crystals can be implemented into a weapon known as the TwistedSword. And you know what other weapon can be implemented?

The Weird Route and the Unexplainable

It seems like Chapter 5 will culminate in the Weird Route, and from what Carol says (and what we know about Kris and Noelle's childhood), it seems she wanted the Weird Route to happen. But why?

Let's think about one of Deltarune's most cryptic mysteries; the "thankyou" ARG. Like, what's all that about?! This has proven undecipherable by many, because the responses seem really cryptic and self-contradictory. "It was the first time she had smiled since she was a child" to "It was the first time she had smiled in her entire life".

Obviously this is referring to the Weird Route, and how the ThornRing made her smile. The question is. . .why? Why is the conductor asking this question? Why does this ARG even exist?

First, we must ask ourselves. . .who is the conductor?

It could be Carol, she seems to desire the Weird Route. It could be ERAM, they know about the Weird Route. It's more likely ERAM, because they're the one with the "secret hiding place", because the ARG is hella secret. But the idea of this being ERAM is undermined by the idea that they already know how long it took for her to smile. And if Carol is planning this, so would she.

I have a feeling whoever's writing this just learned about the Weird Route and is now taking an interest, because they wouldn't know how long it took for her to smile.

To me, our only real answer is the second voice from the prologue. They talk in a very similar manner, and they're involved in SOUL shenanigans too.

Wait a minute. . .

The conductor seems to have a direct link to Noelle as well, if they repeated what Noelle said. And this isn't just a normal "thank you", it's LITERALLY what the page is called! So it seems that whoever this is just learned about the Weird Route, but has also become linked to Noelle due to the ThornRing.

. . .And the ThornRing is an extension of the SOUL's Determination unto Noelle. But. . .what if it's not just our Determination? What if it's also Kris' Determination? But. . .who's Determination is Kris actually using. . .

OH GOD NOT YOU AGAIN

YOU'VE ALREADY DRIVEN ME INSANE FOR A WHILE STOP COMING BACK

But yeah, seeing how the second voice had laid the Knight's plans into motion by sabotaging the Vessel's creation to implement Kris in the Prophecy, it definitely seems like they're one in the same.

It seems like both the Knight and Carol had been targeting Noelle for a while. The Knight opened a Fountain in the Librarby, where they knew Noelle would be. And they would've known that she had some sort of strength Queen could exploit to help create Dark Fountains.

Noelle seems to be some sort of ultimate outlier. She's the centre of the Weird Route. She's included as part of the Fun Gang's party, but she isn't a hero of Prophecy or at least included in the Prophecy's story of "three heroes". She seems to be the key to breaking the Prophecy, something the Knight would desire if their sacrifice means anything.

So, OK, the Knight's now in on the Weird Route loop. But if they are the second voice from the prologue. . .doesn't them saying "thank you" sound. . .familiar? In fact, doesn't the second voice at all sound familiar?

CHARA-KNIGHT CONFIRMED EVERYBODY

The voice really does sound like a cocky therapist. Just like Chara.

But, either way, let's talk about how the Weird Route will end.

Some people believe the Weird Route is the original Prophecy. But that doesn't make any sense; Spamton and Ralsei clearly state that it defies the Prophecy, and that it's something even worse. The minigames said it themselves; "the forbidden path began with ice magic".

But consider that for a moment. "Ice magic". Ice is frozen water. And what form do the Dark Fountains take? The Prophecy panels? The Depths from where the Vessel is formed? Water.

When they say the Weird Route will defy the Prophecy. . .they mean it will just freeze it. Preventing it from ever coming to pass by, in essence, freezing time forever. So it's possible the Weird Route could end in a softlock.

And that would really piss off Dr. W.D.

Gaster isn't one of the bad guys. It's pretty confusing what his actual motivation is; some say the plot of Deltarune is ultimately a means to an eviller end, some (like me) say he's a good guy who wants to banish the Angel of Death from the Prophecy back in his world. But overall, the doctor just comes off as a neutral observer. He doesn't object to the Weird Route, and even if we fail every achievement, he'll commend our efforts anyway. He's a scientist testing the variables. So as long as the game, the story, HIS DELTARUNE continues, he doesn't seem bothered.

But if the Weird Route does end in a softlock, essentially breaking the game, I can only imagine Gaster would be PISSED. He absolutely ADORES Deltarune, and he wouldn't let anything halt it at its' most promising point. So he'd wanna bring out the big guns. Change some variables.

Enter Susie and Ralsei. While I don't think Susie was ever intended to be here, Gaster seems fond of her, and while Kris and Noelle can only softlock themselves into an eternal destiny, Susie can actively break and overwrite it, inspiring Ralsei to do so as well. This culminates in a 2v2 between the corrupted Noelle and Kris, and the heroes Susie and Ralsei. By Gaster's will as to protect his DELTARUNE.

But. . .here's the skinny---what if it just never gets to that point? Continuing off of our little Shadow Crystal spiel and the tentatively titled "Sword Route", we all know that the ThornRing is needed to created the TwistedSword. Collecting them is a route to the sword.

And the only way to get the ThornRing is to stop the Weird Route, and essentially. . .

Oh nah, Carol is SO COOKED.

The TwistedSword and the Knight's True Intentions

With the Shadow Crystal on their person, and Kris collecting the Shadow Crystals, too---not to mention Carol already supposedly having a ThornRing, it seems the Knight---or Kris---is building up to the creation of the TwistedSword. But why? What would it bring them? To destroy the world some more???

Actually. . .the TwistedSword does have as much of a Titan-beating stat as the Black Shard. And it's a weapon only Kris can equip, something that has a "Trance Down" effect. Perhaps that "trance" lowers Kris' inhibitions. . .and allows them to strike that blade into the ground with murderous glee, and cause a Roaring.

After all, with how powerful the Knight already is, and with the ThornRing and Pure Crystal both powered by Determination; could you imagine how much Determination could pour into the creation of a Dark Fountain? It would cause the Depths to overflow, to pour out into geysers and tear the world asunder.

But on the other side, we have the Fun Gang, who want to use the Shadow Crystals to break their own strings and write their own story, no thorns included.

So essentially, the Fun Gang and the Knight's squad are in a tug-of-war or a race for the Shadow Crystals---for their own sort of freedom.

I'm really fascinated with the parallels and antitheses between Susie and the Knight, the Knight seeking to break the Prophecy by pure indiscriminate destruction, and Susie seeking to break the Prophecy and create something better out of it.

Perhaps once the Knight and Kris complete their fiendish intentions with the TwistedSword, Susie will shatter the weapon and obtain the PureCrystal to write out a better ending. Although, that just sounds like something that would happen anyway, right?

The Tree, the Egg, and the Forgotten Man

The Man Behind the Tree is either super complicated or super simple. For those who prefer the metanarrative reason, the Man Behind the Tree is moreso meant to represent the expression of art and the positive impact it can leave.

For most theorists, it might be Deltarune's Gaster variant, or in my opinion, [REDACTED]. It could also be Everyman. It could be, like, a piece of Gaster.

For those deep in UTDR evidence brainrot, it's friggin Papyrus. Which is a less likely theory considering Papyrus almost never leaves his house.

To solve the mystery of our favorite Eggster, let's ask ourselves one question; why does the big W.D consider the Eggs an issue? Sure, Gaster doesn't seem offended if you don't fulfill any of his achievements, moreso fascinated; but that doesn't explain why the Eggs are considered an issue at all.

Well, remember Sans?

Y'know how everyone speculates the world of Deltarune is actually where Sans comes from, and that he just migrated to Undertale? There are several, and I mean INNUMEROUS layers there, but some parts don't neatly add up. For example; Gaster's from Undertale. And if Greenster theory is accurate, he's been living with the Skelebros for a while now. And Papyrus is a whole other can of worms.

In that case, I propose an alternative concept. I theorize Gaster's actually been working on HIS DELTARUNE for a while, way before he even left the Undertale universe. Remember how Undertale's Gerson claimed that some Monsters interpreted their Delta Rune's Angel as the wrathful and destructive "Angel of Death"?

What if Gaster was one of those Monsters? And to get to the heart o' the matter, let's look at this narration from the True Lab.

A man? And a tree?!?! Like the Forgotten Man?!?! But how is that even possible?! How would that even work, unless. . .unless the Forgotten Man was a failed experiment of Gaster.

And that makes everything click. What fans fail to consider is the glitchy nature of the Eggs and the Man himself (does the Egg multiply when it goes into Asgore's fridge in Chapter 1 or???). Not to mention the Forgotten Man's correspondence with Noelle implies he isn't a regular Lightner, and more of a supernatural entity that transcends both mechanics of Deltarune's universe. And because of his glitchy nature, someone who hails from Deltarune's foundation of code.

Remember in one of my earlier posts, how I discussed that Chapter 3's Egg room resembled a prototypical game build? And may have also been Gaster's game build from developing Deltarune and where Dess had gone missing?!

This ties everything together into a cohesive thesis statement; the Forgotten Man was one of Gaster's failed experiments and was left, obviously, forgotten, due to the glitchy nature of him and his Eggs. And Gaster would perceive it an issue for such a nebulous variable to potentially negatively affect such a promising experiment. Essentially. . .glitchy egg worrying.

I had an alternate theory that the Eggs literally were the Tail of Hell because both were things that "shouldn't be followed". But the connection there is a little weaker.

Why is it all ending?

You know, it's not just the Weird Route which is indicated to end in Chapter 5.

It's the Shadow Crystal sidequest, too. And the Egg rooms, with how the Man Behind the Tree's last divulged Egg is in Chapter 5.

And Lord of the Hammer, too, with how Chapter 5 is the last one mentioned, Chapter 6 is left vague, and Chapter 7 just doesn't exist at all. This is even the case in the Deltarune newsletter, as we've heard ZILCH about Chapters 6 and 7!

Why does it seem like everything we know about Deltarune is ending in Chapter 5? Yeah, it's a big chapter, but don't we have two more chapters to go?

It seems obvious. Chapter 5 will be a crucial turning point for the story of Deltarune. OK, yeah, that makes sense, but why do the Weird Route, Shadow Crystal and Egg storylines end here, too? Why were they included at all?! We don't need ALL of these just to complement Deltarune's themes of breaking expectations, or of playing games, or of secrets.

So, why are there so many secret sidequests. . .and why are they all ending at Chapter 5?

Well, let's think about what will happen after Chapter 5.

Keep in mind, Lord of the Hammer is meant to reflect the Prophecy, and each chapter reflects the chapters of Deltarune. So, seemingly, the sixth chapter is where it all ends. Which means the Prophecy would never be fulfilled.

Why not? Allow me to go into a detailed tangent about Deltarune and its' creator in W.D Gaster. Deltarune is a very new, incomplete experiment on Gaster's part, to achieve his hopes and dreams. This dream is ideal, haphazardly put together, and imperfect, and it shows in the cracks and seams in each part of it.

The Man Behind the Tree found out of bounds, the forbidden path the ice mage can take, the artifacts found among the fallen. Each secret can alter the story in different ways, and yet, it only fascinates and not infuriates Gaster because, surely, the end will be the same.

Here's the thing; the story (Rune) had been changed (Delta) since day one. When instead of "the cage with human soul and parts" being the first hero, it was haphazardly altered to someone working for the Knight. Kris Dreemurr.

Each secret tells us something about Kris. The Shadow Crystals? Kris' struggle with freedom. The Weird Route? Kris' struggle with morality. The Man Behind the Tree? Kris' struggle with innocence.

But, you'll have to learn more in my next post;

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

Asriel's Influence over Deltarune (Deltarune theory/speculation)

Welcome to the Witch's Brew. Today in our countdown to Chapter 5's release (ONE WEEK GUYS, ONE WEEK), we'll be talking about our favorite fluffy boy!

No, not you this time, the other one.

Much better. Now, we all remember Asriel Dreemurr; a good fluffy boy torn apart by trauma and soullessness, cursed with an eldritch power and extreme survivor's guilt driving him to play the villain. He ends Undertale with powerful boss fights and a strong emotional end that solidifies Undertale's top-tier status.

He's so iconic and well-constructed, Deltarune had to leave him out and give him the happy ending he always deserved (going to college), and have a NEW traumatized fluffy boy in his stead, and a NEW murderous antagonist with polychromatic aura and star motifs.

In that case, it works kind of perfectly for Asriel to have been Undertale's top dog, but now he's absent and at college, and ALL the roles he played are scattered among Deltarune's lot. Kinda like. . .how Gaster was shattered across space and time.

But one thing interests me about Asriel in Deltarune. Have you heard of this passage?

"And so wept the fallen star, crying rivers with its' tears. Then slowly, from the bitter water, something grew. It looked like glass."

People have interpreted this multiple ways, most popularly being the Knight as the "fallen star" having wept tears that became Shadow Crystals---although, i don't really see that as possible. But what some fans kinda missed, is this additional line from the Ribbicks.

If people could piece "THEY'LL SEE THE TAIL OF HELL TAKE CRAWL" and "the children followed the pointed tail" together. . .why hasn't anyone considered that maybe the fallen star who cried tears that cascaded into rivers. . .was the crying boy, himself? Asriel Dreemurr?

But, ok, everybody cries, right? Maybe it's just a coincidence?

Until you regard the actual meaning of the passage. The fallen star's cascading tears eventually crystallized into Shadow Crystals, artifacts that defy the border between realities. Something that drove Jevil and Spamton insane when they saw past the light, past the darkness, past everything.

Just like it did with one Flowey the Flower.

Nah. NAHHH. You're not telling me that Asriel somehow gained Shadow Crystal-style knowledge, and after what happened to Dess, got so traumatized, his tears manifested into Shadow Crystals that revealed the knowledge that shattered him.

I mean, that's impossible---how can a perfectly normal Lightner shed tears that transform into mystical artifacts?

. . .What if tears, too, transform in the Dark Worlds?

Oh, come on, that's nuts! There's no way Asriel would know about Dark Worlds! I mean, sure, Asriel was a frequent Church-goer so he might know about the Prophecy and a horned prince that may or may not be him, but so what???

Yeah, Asriel has a close connection to Seam. Anything else? Oh, he owned a "How to Draw Dragons" book and might've been a fan of Gerson's "Lord of the Hammer" series and maybe he and Dess may have used the book to animate their own Dragon, but. . .

Actually, let's think about this. There's a non-zero chance that Asriel KNOWS about the Dark Worlds and the Prophecy stuff. Like, Kris knew, Dess knew, and Asgore knew, why not Asriel?

There's the popular theory of there being a first Fun Gang consisting of Asriel, Dess, and whoever woulda served as the first hero, with Seam following suit. I really like this theory because of the unlimited storytelling potential, but from it we can actually decipher a few context clues;

Perhaps the hearts in Dess' closet were her attempt at creating the soul for the first hero. Even the shoes and human stuff to go along with it. But when everything else failed, she chose Kris instead. I can't imagine Asriel would've been very happy with this, but Dess convinced him to get on board.

Maybe Dess tried to animate her own Dragon to fight, and thus learned "How to Draw Dragons".

So what happened next? DEMONS did. Kris and Dess are analagous to one character; Chara Dreemurr, Asriel's mentally troubled best friend. And both are also analogous to one Roaring Knight.

A demon's gotta offer bargains, right? And I imagine while Dess and Kris may have been into Chara/the Knight's offer. . .Asriel wouldn't be so compliant. He's the one who originally defied Chara, remember? Of all people, Asriel would turn down the bargain of ultimate power or killing people, even if from a best friend.

But while everyone eventually turned against the Knight, and they, in response, got Dess missing and Asriel permanently traumatized. . .something changed within Kris. The Knight's promises of adventure, and how with the Prophecy everything was meaningless---destruction serving as its' only meaning---all of it, stirred in Kris' mind.

And their family started to slowly unravel. Carol schemed away with seemingly sinister intent for Noelle, Asgore was purged from the fray, Rudy fell mysteriouly ill, and Asriel. . .the only one Kris could hold on to. . .left for college. And then, the Knight was all who was left.

. . .I'm gonna be honest, I never liked the concept that Asriel or really anyone was the original third hero, because it sorta devalues the weight of Ralsei's character. He was written in the STARS to be the Fun Gang's tutorial NPC, to be their guide, to be the Prince of Prophecy with no other traits of his own.

And I imagine neither would Asriel. He was never "alone in deepest dark" before this, as a matter o' fact he was the life o' the party before Dess' disappearance. And once Kris got involved I can't imagine he wouldn't say anything other than "I don't like this plan anymore". Maybe Dess TRIED to make him the third hero. . .*but he refused.

Taking everything we learned from this post into perspective, my views haven't changed that much, but I do think Asriel was involved in whatever happened to Dess and whatever supernatural antics his family is up to---but not to his will, like Rudy, and honestly I doubt he wants anything to do with it. Just let my boy be happy.

Asriel's a great character, and if it wasn't for everything leading up to being Flowey, a good person, too. I hate how fan content tries to make him out to secretly be a morally depraved scumbag because they find good people boring and want him to essentially be Flowey.

Like, good people can still have interesting stories and conflicts told with them, for God's sake Asriel has MOUNTAINS of trauma behind him in the OG game! Asriel wasn't a prick for the sake of being a prick.

And I also don't like the interpretation that Kris' motivation is purely to find or save Dess. They never really had that strong a connection, and from what we can tell so far from secrets and stuff, Kris' motivation seems a lot more personal than finding Dess---especially with other themes of Deltarune like escapism or self-expression. Also, finding Dess seems to be the motivation of, like, three other guys. Feels like a cop-out to make "finding Dess" the ultimate motivation card for every character even if one has a lot of compelling character potential. Kris and Asriel included.

Well, that's all! This post isn't intended to be much than just talking about a character I really like, and some suspicions and reservations I have.

Wow. . .Deltarune, just a week away! I am so excited for this information---

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

Things in Deltarune that no one talks about (Deltarune theory/speculation)

Welcome to the Witch's Brew. We're in 9 DAYS before the big rune drops and we've still got a few to talk about and keep up the hype. Today's topic. . .things in Deltarune that no one talks about!

Like the Titans!

The Titans and their really weird rotoscoped hands. When you think about the body of a Titan some things kinda fail to add up. Like, what are all those wings on what seems to be its' scalp? Does that mean there would be nothing behind its' own arm? Does its' entire body just have wings everywhere?

The cooler option is that the Titan's autonomy isn't meant to make sense. Titans are the materialized fear of the dark, and as such their form is incredibly abstract and have no fixed "form". And fun fact, the star on its' face is only described as its' "shield", which means the creepy orifice leaking some black fluid is its' face. The Titans are just things I don't think people really talk about, because their setup and creepy subtext is honestly brilliant.

Another creepy thing nobody talks about---

This secret room was genuinely creepy as heck, but it was excellent atmosphere building and is an underrated source of Dess lore and why people are so invested in the mystery of her disappearance. I mean, the labyrinth that feels like it goes on forever, the saturated colours and unfinished textures, the lack of collision and of course, the gatcha machine.

"You couldn't find

your hand."

Yeah but I could find all the PISS in my pants. I think this really tells us just how missing Dess is, this room being a metaphysical space of nonexistence kinda like where Dess might be. Or maybe this represents Dess herself.

Let's look at the only bits of dialogue we get from this area.

"Inside was something hard, like lacquer. It was a small, dark triangle. But when you tried to grab it, it fell out of your hand. And you couldn't find it anymore."

Whether it be a Black Shard or a guitar pick, this might give us a solid idea on how Dess disappeared; or rather, the nature of her disappearance. Her guitar is still there, but the pick just. . .slipped from Kris' hand.

Do you think this is the place where she went missing? Or that this place is a representation of her? The former idea is supported by the UNUSED code and the fact that 1225 POINTs is required to access this room. The second idea is supported by the fact that the UNUSED speaker has seemingly lost some of their memories.

I actually think this could be grounds for an interesting discussion---

Using Chapter 3 to solve Dess' disappearance!

A lot of fans relate Dess' disappearance to the Egg rooms and some deep-seated trauma Kris has. They read too closely into Chapter 4, but what about Chapter 3? The 1225 room represents an unfinished build of TV World, with the background and the basic level format, but none of the polish like collision, details, set paths. Sorta like the prototypical game build the Forgotten Man was standing in.

You know what else this reminds me of? A prototype, a base, an unfinished build? Before the real, more polished and complete one comes in?

That's right. And especially with the Shelter being the place of confrontation and the blue backdrop of the ERAM fight, this could very well allude to the 1225 room being the place where Dess disappeared.

We know the Shelter is some Gaster type-crap and he's kinda Deltarune's author, so perhaps the reason the 1225 room and the third chapter's Egg room are like that, is because those are still the early days of Gaster developing Deltarune and conceptualizing the Prophecy and the Fun Gang's adventures. Perhaps Dess was invited to be on board as the second hero, like I theorized, but because Gaster's project was still unfinished and unstable, she no-clipped out of the code. . .and remained UNUSED.

. . .See what I did there? She disappeared from the Shelter and the world that night, like how the guitar pick disappeared from Kris' hand.

But I don't think it's just Dess who disappeared. The song that plays in the background of the 1225 room is the same song that plays when you touch Dess' guitar in her Deltarune page. Which, by the way, can be only accessed by the browser page being "Dess" and not "December".

It works both ways. The guitar pick is gone from the guitar. The Black Shard is gone from the Black Knife. The world lost Dess, and Dess lost a part of herself, and that's even apparent in the track Lost Girl.

There's a Freedom Motif in Lost Girl and NO ONE's talking about it, which is surprising considering how FRIEND-pilled the fandom is. But yeah, perhaps Dess was looking for a sort of freedom, and only found a perverse caricature of it, becoming "free" from the code of reality itself.

But that's not all the musical easter eggs we have to share with you, today. I really like Raise Up Your Bat's rendition of Lost Girl, but what interested me was how the melody continued off of the actual leitmotif, in contrast to the OG Lost Girl, where the melody stops after the Freedom Motif.

In a way, Lost Girl is telegraphed similarly to BIG SHOT, where the Power of NEO melody keeps repeating, and the Freedom Motif just gives up in contrast to other Freedom-pilled songs. However, in Raise Up Your Bat, the melody continues and the Freedom Motif never changes.

As if. . .something was missing from the original melody. Something was missing from Dess. Like a guitar pick to a guitar, or a Black Shard to a Black Knife.

And if it really is true, the Lost Girl motif is in Black Knife, then we know exactly where that "piece" of Dess ended up.

After all, the Knight seemingly has the power to drain Lightners' memories. . .

So, THAT'S what I believe the connection between Dess and the Knight is. The Knight isn't Dess---it simply possesses a part of her that completed its' form. Not her SOUL, or her body, because that's not how those work, but a literal piece of Dess altogether.

It's a little something like this; the Knight is Dess Holiday, Dess Holiday isn't the Knight. Does that make sense? I dunno, makes sense to me.

But anyway, ANOTHER thing nobody talks about is Kris.

How Colors Solve Deltarune

We all know pink and yellow, right? Usually of the FRIENDly variety. Those are the colours boasted by Spamton, Susie and Gerson, all of whom have the capacity to break the Prophecy and defy fate. It's pretty obvious; pink and yellow are colours of FREEDOM. And they're the colours of Susie and Noelle, too.

But along with pink and yellow, Gerson is also green. And the strings on Spamton are green, too. Now, we can make green Gaster jokes all we desire, but I do believe when paired with pink and yellow, it means something. It means control over destiny. After all, it is Gaster who's deciding Deltarune's destiny and the path of its' story.

And Susie's OKHeal is green, too, referencing how she defies expectations and carves out her own destiny with her hands. Individually, though, pink can mean friendship as what is established by most blue enemies in Deltarune turning pink once you RECRUIT them.

And from the SAVE points, we can assume that yellow means will or strength. It is Noelle, the "yellow" party member who has some innate strength in her after all. And I suppose that Ralsei, the "green" boi will learn how to control his own destiny, too, after gaining the will to accomplish things on his own.

In summary, pink refers to friendship. Yellow refers to will. Pink and yellow mean freedom. Green means control over destiny, and all three represent true freedom. "The air crackles green with freedom".

But what about the "blue"? Y'know, Kris? Aren't they part of the heroes' party, too? What does blue actually mean?

Well. . .y'know how the Dark Fountains are blue? And most enemies before they're spared and become pink are blue?

OK, yeah, we know the whole spiel, "Kris is an enemy in disguise pretending to be the heroes' ally," blah, blah, BLAH. BUT. BUT. Notice how Kris adopts pink along with some darker/cooler colours for their colour scheme. . .as a contrast to Noelle adopting yellow with some lighter colours for her colour scheme.

If we're right to assume Noelle is the "light" Angel, the SOUL serving as the light---what if, as her parallel, Kris is the "dark" Angel, the Knight serving as the darkness that sponsors them. They are the color of Dark Fountains after all, perhaps it foreshadows them as its' emissary. . .? And the SOUL and the Knight are cool parallels as Angel candidates, too, because the SOUL's Angel thematics is tied more to subtext and foreshadowing, while the Knight literally looks like the Angel.

Like the King's Chariot my Kris-Angel propaganda cannot be stopped

And speaking of the Knight. . .let's talk about that, shall we?

Y'know how I said the Knight's body resembled the Angel? I lied. It resembles the entire Delta Rune.

Now what could this mean? Is the Knight the Prophecy incarnate? Or better yet, because they're the main, overarching villain---the Knight is an amalgamation of the Angel and the previous Fun Gang.

Earlier in this post I talked about how Titans are amorphous and abstract because they represent the fear of the dark. Y'know what else is amorphous and abstract? The Amalgamates. Who are all deceased in Deltarune.

But remember what happened to a popular deceased in Deltarune? He got revived by the Dark World.

What if the same happens to Hometown's deceased when the Roaring happens---except, because it's the Roaring, they're reanimated into Titan-like abominations of dread and darkness?

And what about the Knight? An Amalgamate-style dark creature, but also an Asriel-style Angel of Death? Well, remember how I established how the Knight can seemingly drain people of their strength or memories? Toriel, Rudy and Dess being possible examples?

What if they did just that to a previous group of Prophecy heroes, adopting all of their traits? They were already the Angel turned Roaring Knight, but adopted the traits of Kris, Dess, and Asriel/Papyrus to complete their form. . .

After all, in Chapter 2 we've seen the heroes "fuse" in one way or another. . .

Notice how the features of Kris, Susie and Ralsei are fused together into a giant robot, with the Thrash Machine that was created and later disposed of serving as its' head. Parallelling the Vessel. Parallelling the Angel.

Will the Fun Gang summon their own Titan?!

That's all I've got for you today. I'll see you tomorrow, where Deltarune. . .will be a week away.

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

Where DID the forest actually grow? (Deltarune discussion)

Welcome back to the Witch's Brew!

Deltarune gets closer to tomorrow every day, and there are SOME things I'd like to talk about before that day comes. For one, being this passage;

"Lost where the forest would grow, the children followed the pointed tail." If you're a scavenger of Deltarune lore and theories you'll know EXACTLY what I mean. And that's my problem. I'm not a fan of the consensus that "FRIEND led Dess and Kris to the Shelter" but overtime I've grown more neutral with the basic concept. I moreso hate the interpretation that "FRIEND was super scary and killed Dess and traumatized Kris and forced them to do evil stuff".

Because I don't think that's enough to traumatize Kris, Kris the demon-summoning "I rip my SOUL out of my body on the daily" knight who stares down eldritch abstract horrors. They eagerly and "knowingly" open the Shelter at the end of Chapter 3, so I doubt they're that afraid of what's in there.

I think if it were to be "traumatizing", it would rather be something from Kris' own hands or something a little more. . .cosmic.

So. . .what really does this passage mean, and how did it affect Kris?

Chapter 1: Who really is FRIEND?

Not a character, that's what I know. FRIEND doesn't really. . .do anything in Deltarune, the times they do show up they're more of a visual than an actual character. Like as spawns in the Pluey minigame, as dispatches in the Mantlekeeper boss fight, and a visual for Ralsei's monologue beginning Chapter 3, appearing shortly before the Dark World.

That led me to believe different things. My profound belief is that FRIEND is a symbol for freedom, pink and yellow being common colors for characters who have the potential to defy what's written (Susie, Gerson and Spamton). And they appear for some reason in the Pluey minigame, which has the FREEDOM MOTIF.

If we want to take it a few steps further, FRIEND could be the LITERAL SHADOW CRYSTAL.

Pay attention to this line. FRIEND's face approaches the camera, and fades in to a view of the Dark Worlds. . ."an alternate view of reality through the lens of shadow". A "lens of shadow" eh? Like some kind of. . .Shadow Crystal?

From how this monologue is framed it's like we're viewing the Dark Worlds THROUGH FRIEND. OK, but any other evidence?

Yeah, the definitive "IMAGE_FRIEND" only appears in Queen's basement in Chapter 2, where they actually commit to the bit of mirroring the Cheshire Cat, and smile before quickly disappearing, and Kris just moves on.

What else is LITERALLY "through the looking glass", and shortly disappears after a first glance---"for just a brief moment"? A SHADOW CRYSTAL VIEW.

And. . .that really puts into perspective this one weird line.

"For some strange reason, for just a brief moment. . .you thought you saw through your hand."

IS FRIEND KRIS' HAND???

Now, the moment of truth, is FRIEND really the "pointed tail" the passage talks about? I mean, possibly??? During the Mantle minigames, ERAM uproots images of FRIEND. Could you say it's pulling FRIEND from. . .their ROOTS???

Chapter 2: I remember you're WEIRD ROOTS

ROOTS is probably FRIEND-related what with "Digital Roots" and "BIT ROOTS" playing wherever FRIEND shows up, and y'know. . .they were literally pulled up by the roots in the ERAM boss fight. And is therefore related to the "pointed tail" passage.

But I'm not gonna lie. . .the house in between those trees looks NOTHING like the Shelter. It does resemble Kris' house, tho, which is at the north of town and therefore DIRECTLY across the Shelter.

You could say it's some kind of. . .Northernlight.

Buuuut we're not here to talk about that. Let's talk about the actual wording at play here.

The tree. Where the forest would grow. Roots. From roots, comes a tree, and from a tree, comes a forest. Therefore, roots are where the forest would grow.

Now you might be thinking "OK, now he's just saying random freaking buzzwords, he's lost his mind." No, I'm considering something. The children were lost where the forest "would" grow.

Would. Implying that the forest didn't grow. Implying that something happened to the ROOTS. There is only ONE tree, after all.

Where's the other tree? Is the tree all Kris can remember? What about the weird house?

Or perhaps. . .this never WAS the past.

Chapter 3: Charred in an Inferno of Jealousy

The field of pink and gold. So far we've agreed that the "poor children" passage is related to FRIEND and the ROOTS. With a Dark World so heavily imbued with the colours of FREEDOM (and FRIEND) and flower-themed, we'll be getting our answers FOR SURE, here.

What if the "inferno of jealousy" that scorches the field also damages the roots? Preventing the forest from growing?

It's not impossible, I mean, in ERAM's boss fight, they have fire abilities that SCORCH the arena, and pull FRIEND from the ROOTS right after! Makes you wonder if FRIEND is actually a byproduct of the pointed tail passage.

And thus, the children who follow the pointed tail would be the Fun Gang, finding the one tree in the midst of the damaged roots where the forest woulda grown. And got. . .lost?

Ok, what does that mean?

What does any of this mean? How is FRIEND---a symbol of freedom---gonna appear after the forest is incinerated? Perhaps it symbolizes the defiance of destiny that will occur once the roots are damaged? And why is it so important to Kris?!

Let's look at FRIEND again, and their relationship with Kris. We've established that FRIEND is a symbol of freedom. They might even be the essence of Shadow Crystals. But how is this relevant to Kris? Why is Kris the one who personally receives all the Egg foreshadowing?!

SPECIAL MIKE SECTION!

OH MY GOOOOOOOD

We can answer the relationship between Kris and FRIEND through their parallels with Cat Mike. The Fun Gang all parallels the Mikes; Motormouth Mike being a parallel to Ralsei, Cowboy Mike mirroring Susie, and Cat Mike mirroring Kris, and weirdly enough, FRIEND.

Cat Mike takes on the IMAGE of FRIEND, and acts like a cat the same way Kris acts like a dog. And then there's Motormouth Mike's words. . .

"Just because it's a FRIEND doesn't mean it's YOURS. Those TEETH, they BITE!!!" Could that allude to some kind of betrayal?

And then we have the OddController. The Controller meant to play the Mantle minigames, notoriously pink and yellow and meant for Kris to gain their "freedom".

What follows is Kris killing enemies and farming power in these minigames using the OddController. Including the companions that follow them.

Keep in mind, that in Deltarune, "killing" enemies registers them as "LOST". And FRIEND is the pointed tail, embodied by the OddController.

The children followed the pointed tail. . .

Lost where the forest would grow.

Chapter 4: Kris Dreemurr, the pointed tail

That's right! Kris IS FRIEND!

. . .Well, not really. But yes, I believe the Mantle minigames---which depict something happening in Chapter 5---explain the "ROOTS" passage. Once the forest can no longer grow after being scorched at the ROOTS. . .the pointed tail, Kris, will betray the children who follow them, until they become "lost".

The poor children.

Both Kris and FRIEND are very demon-themed, Kris possessing a set of demon horns and got involved in the demon-summoning trade with Catti, and FRIEND is the opposite to the divine white dog as the black cat, and could be described as "the tail of hell".

This could probably also describe something that happened with Dess and Kris (and maybe even our good buddy ASRIEL), but from what we know, Kris was directly involved.

This theory could've been a simple rebuttal of the consensus that "FRIEND killed Dess and traumatized poor Kris" because it's just such a horrorbait, uninteresting idea. But I really wanted to gauge what it actually means based on the information I gathered myself, and I think this is a pretty solid if not far-fetched interpretation.

Oh, and I can't forget that according to the Organikks, the pointed tail passage was heard in-between, and for some reason, jumbled up.

And remember what Gerson said;

In between. Whatever that passage was, it, too, was in between and therefore defying the Prophecy. That defiance leads to freedom, and from that scorched earth, freedom is personified in the form of spectres. . .FRIENDs. . .all pointed tails of hell just like Kris.

This is a bit of a reach, but to me, it's the best possibility. Now, this could just as easily refer to Dess. Maybe it refers to MULTIPLE events at different intervals. If the general consensus is true, that something in the Shelter (not FRIEND specifically) took Dess and changed Kris forever, I'm sure Toby will execute it tastefully.

Maybe the reason "Kris can't wash it all away" is because of some kind of guilt. If Kris really did come across a demon on that day, then perhaps they may have sold their original SOUL, and that tainted them and their hands. . .forever.

But either way, we will find out in 11 days. Because whether 11 hours or 11 days, Deltarune will be waiting.

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

Deltarune. . .NOW!

THAT'S

RIGHT

FELLAS!!!!

I was there when Chapter 5 got revealed at the Nintendo Direct and I COULD NOT BE HAPPIER. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE in the Deltarune community was anticipating this and our hopes were ABSOLUTELY JUSTIFIED.

Despite this trailer being rather short and sweet in comparison to the rest of the Direct, it easily carried. It's coming so soon, and it's gonna be a free update, so I'm actually rather afraid for it to be shorter in comparison to prior chapters.

But "shorter" doesn't necessarily mean "less eventful". Toby did say that he left out the "most exciting parts" for a surprise, and in a trailer this limited and short---how exciting is the chapter as a whole actually gonna be?!

We've already been fed a plenty breadcrumbs and it's all that we needed. From the amount of "running" scenes in this chapter, I can already tell my theory of this chapter being a chase from Dark World to Dark World might ring true.

Now, what else is coming. . .?

Wow, Toby REALLY wants to limit the excitement scale of Chapter 5 to the letter, but I don't think REFERENCING OMEGA FLOWEY IS THE RIGHT MOVE.

Damn, Unc is living a way better life than most working-class citizens are in this current economy.

Ok, so we ALL agree that the cracked TV and those seven flowers in Asgore's room are gonna merge to become something akin to Omega Flowey? Like, maybe THIS is where a Dark World is created after multiple other Dark Worlds and it ends up creating a Titan in Omega Flowey????

OK, but that MIGHT be a reach. Judging by how Kris is alone and knives are their thing it might be something rather personal to Kris. Maybe an image of a FRIEND, or a funhouse mirror version, or one of Asgore's flowers animated in THEIR image.

Some people share the concept that Asgore's seven colored flowers will reflect his shattered family;

The orange flower may mirror Dess because of her bravery, and the green flower could mirror Asriel because of his kindness.

The purple flower could be Rudy because Asgore wants him to persevere through his illness, and the yellow flower could be Carol because as the mayor it's her job to uphold justice

The blue flower could be Noelle because of her arc about finding her own strength/integrity

And the cyan and golden flowers are interchangeable, but I'm leaning more towards the cyan flower being Kris

And this. People are theorizing this is the "white pen of hope" Gerson was talking about. I swear EVERYTHING is literal with Toby. Honestly, I really doubt that. I'm not averse to the "white pen" being literal, but that's just a standard quill. Like, not even something vaguely resembling a weapon? Not sure how it'd help against the Roaring. Maybe it's a Mario-style power-up.

Now, about the Dark Worlds themselves. . .

It's definitely flower-themed, we ALL knew that. But everyone's wondering whether it's the Flower King or the Festival. Although it does seem inspired by Japanese culture, so there's possible Carol or Alphys influence? But hear me out---it's a mix of all.

"I'm expecting record sales for my flowers!"

In the sense that Asgore's definitely gonna be up to something at the Festival, he says it himself. And he's also gonna be in business too. . .around the Festival. So it's NOT just Flower King!

Remember that Asgore's planning to make the most of his flowers at the Festival; which, according to this screenshot, is all smothered in 'em. Is Asgore gonna create a Dark World AT the Festival and bring his flowers to life? And they're gonna protect Hometown's citizens or something?

But Carol's also been preparing vigorously for this Festival, and this part actually interests me the most.

Everyone's been assuming the Festival holds religious significance, and that got me thinking; what's Carol actually up to?

She's extremely controlling of Noelle and shapes her life to her expectations---and considering Noelle's tied so much to angel imagery, it doesn't look too good for the mayor. Especially with that phone call to Kris during the Weird Route where she conveniently leaves out her "promise" to mention Noelle's gonna go with them to the Festival.

Hmmmmmmm. . . .

And that's not even factoring in the Shelter codes and sacrificing each character who HAS them, or the Festival's seemingly religious connections, or how she has an obsession with preserving objects and has seemingly supernatural "cold" attributes. . .

So, what's my verdict? Asgore and Carol are trying to mold the Festival to suit their agenda; Asgore wants to animate his flowers to protect everyone and restore the past he yearns for. Carol, meanwhile, is making the Festival serve as her ritualistic backdrop; the unity of Kris and Noelle, the sacrifice of Undyne & Asgore & a third party, all for the recovery of her missing daughter and the eternal preservation of the world, by freezing it solid.

However, both have a common goal; find Dess, and restore their families. Carol's just stringing Asgore along for darker, yet darker intentions.

That's why the Dark World seems to be a combination of both Asgore AND Carol's influences; flowers and Japanese culture.

Finally, about the chapter itself, Toby has this to say.

Wow, how incredibly RALSEI-flavored. Or Noelle-flavored, depending on the Route? (OK, yeah, Ralsei & Noelle are DEFINITELY running 'em hands on the Weird Route.)

And yeah, I think we can place all our bets on the Roaring happening at the end of Chapter 5. Or as the stage for Chapter 6!

Which, speaking of which, has been finally spoken by the big Fox man and. . .yep, true Gaster-style ambiguity.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN CHAPTER 7 PROGRESS WILL START BY THE END OF THE YEAR

Ok, yeah, I'm not ready for this game's story to end so soon. MAN, AT LEAST WAIT FOR A FEW MORE YEARS! For more people to speculate, for more people to create! We're impatient, but outta that deficiency we spawned LEGENDS, man! SLOW DOWN!!!

So, ok. Let's roll out EVERYTHING we know about Chapter 5, whether it be from subtext/foreshadowing, the trailer or the direction of the plot.

The Festival is the center stage Dark World, where Asgore and Carol are setting stuff up for the shared purpose of restoring their families, thus creating a Dark World molded by their desires. We may or may not enter Flower King or Holiday Manor.

The chapter will be a chase

Ralsei will finally be able to enjoy the Festival with his friends. Perhaps he bonds with the Lightners like Noelle & Berdly, Catti & Jockington, Alphys, Asgore, Asriel, Papyrus, the possibilities are endless!

HOT DOG EATING CONTEST. Asgore challenges Susie, Ralsei and Sans to a hot dog eating contest. Weirdly enough, I think this actually MIGHT happen because Asgore is broke and needs all the food he can get, and he's a bit of a goofball so I can see this happening. Also, good character building for Ralsei if he actually wins.

Alphys and Papyrus get some spotlight. They're some of Undertale's most important characters, and with Undyne outta the picture and Deltarune catering to unexplored Undertale concepts, we could see them get some screentime. Asgore did trim a hedge in the shape of Papyrus' smile after all. (And Papyrus and Flowey ARE friends.)

THERE MAY OR MAY NOT BE OMEGA FLOWEY IN THE FLOWER SHOP. I wonder if I'm predicting those flower roles correctly. . .

If Rudy does die, it's gonna accentuate the antithesis between Asgore and Carol even more, and provide Noelle some trusty character development.

Educated guesses about future chapters (or the current one) based off what Toby Fox says; uhhhh the ROARING's gonna happen ending Chapter 5, and Ralsei's gonna run the fade with Noelle in the Weird Route.

Well, that's all from me. See you guys in two weeks! I'll be posting a LOTTA Deltarune stuff 'till then!

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

Art goes out to @premieregoatboy on YouTube.

There isn't that much art of the Knight being a mischievous piece of crap so props to this.

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

The Fun Gang's Future Lost Its' Rights (Deltarune analysis/theory)

Artwork by me Welcome back to the Witch’s Brew, and to another installment of our Deltarune Tomorrowfest. Today we’re serving some pesto sandwiches and some Lemon Zinger tea, and a theory postulating the future of Kris, Susie and Ralsei. Wait, what?

What do you mean the pesto is moss?!

First off, let's answer a question; why am I so interested in answering the question of the Fun Gang's future? For one, the Fun Gang is awesome. I mean, their designs, their lovable dynamics, how each character complements each other and makes me feel a certain way about them, and how each one feels unique.

Furthermore, I believe Kris and Susie's friendship (and Ralsei's inclusion) to be the most important parts and keys to solving Deltarune. . .'s Pacifist Route, at least. Let's start with Kris.

Kris: The ROOTS of NORTHERNLIGHT

God, it's like reading Winter Soldier passcodes. The point I'm trying to make is that the Mantle minigames seem pretty important to understanding Kris. That and the Egg rooms, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Let's take a look at ERAM for a minute. "Burning eyes" is a pretty interesting phrase, because not only does it refer to Kris' eyes "flickering red, like pretty little flames", but also ERAM's fire abilities and the Titan eyes that show up during their battle.

And I gotta tell ya, it's pretty peculiar that ERAM has Dreemurr-style fire abilities when Kris is a Dreemurr---and the Black Knife motif and Titan eyes when Kris is working with the Knight. The evidence speaks for itself. ERAM represents Kris under some kind of Dark metamorphosis.

And this is supported through the Northernlight stuff. In Chapter 4, you can find a secret single Prophecy panel that looks like this;

I'm just gonna say it, this does not look ANYTHING like the Shelter. Buuuut, it does apply much more to Kris' house. Not only does it resemble the house the most (trees and all) but it's also at. . .north of town.

Notice the Angel symbol on the house. The wings are sleeker and sharper, and this time, two triangles point downwards and one points upwards. And then look at ERAM. Their horns look. . .weirdly akin to those sharp wings.

And the Knight's torso just happens to resemble the Angel with familiarly sharp wings for shoulder blades. . .

The Knight's theme is also called "Black Knife" when Kris is the only character confirmed to use a knife, so. . .

Anyway, taking ERAM and the Knight's similarities to Kris into perspective pieces it all together. Kris will be possessed by the Knight, break the Prophecy and ascend into the Angel of Death, starting the Roaring unencumbered by fate.

But why do I think Kris is needed to break the Prophecy? It's implied the Vessel was originally supposed to be the first hero, but the Knight---someone of the Knight's forces at least---interfered and made Kris the first hero instead. That had to have a reason. And to me, that reason was to break the Prophecy; take a look at this scene right here.

Not only does the Knight YEET Kris and Susie, but they specifically break the Prophecy glass; the Prophecy boasting the Delta Rune. And while Susie broke through the glass seamlessly, Kris is absolutely ragdolled.

I believe that breaking Prophecy glass indicates someone's ability to defy the Prophecy's rules, hence Susie and Gerson shattering the glass, and why the Knight can't seem to do it themselves; unless through the variable they changed.

But why? What motivation does Kris have for doing any of this? Why work with the Knight, and why would they want to work with each other?

I don't think they're being forced to or doing it out of obligation, I feel like Kris should have their own personal motivation to aid universal omnicide, aside from "saving Dess" or other reasons.

Personally? I believe the whole game has been building up to it; the fantasy of Dark Worlds, Noelle asking Kris if they missed exploring like with Asriel and Dess, ERAM and Ramb inquiring if Kris just wanted to have fun again, Tenna and Asgore wishing the family could get back together.

Kris wanted adventure again. They wanted to have fun again, to be surrounded by friends and do fun things and tackle impossible odds, and not torn apart by grief and loss.

And then, just like Tenna, left all alone. . .

. . .The Roaring Knight appeared. The Knight promised Kris endless adventures, with new friends, and something worth fighting for, something that would make them happy again.

And that was the Roaring. If Dark Worlds were pockets of the adventure Kris craved, multiple Dark Worlds would've been heaven. An Angel's Heaven, one might say.

And so, after Kris has carried out the Knight's plans, the Knight shall possess them, and together will evolve into the Angel of Death, Deltarune's final enemy. And that would be a perfect climax, setting up great character development for Susie, Kris and the player, their relationships, the subversion of expectations.

And it would also set up one thing beautifully.

Susie: The BURNING EYES of hope

Susie, too, is determined to defy the Prophecy. And Susie, too, has burning eyes. Gerson said so himself; a story lit up in her eyes, burning bright, burning black, burning up everything. THAT is what will out-write the Prophecy. Because Lord of the Hammer's pages were never finished.

And because it reflects the Prophecy, perhaps it implies the Prophecy would never get completed either. Because it had been broken by the Knight's eyes burning through Kris' own.

But Susie? She's got the burning eyes too, to write out her own story, to defy the rules. And that will allow her to confront the possessed Kris and save her friend.

There's a lot of antitheses between Susie and the Knight---they're both reminders of Dess, one truer than the other, and they're both Kris' closest allies.

While I certainly think others' ideas could be just as awesome with the right execution, I still think if Susie and the Knight-possessed Kris became the final confrontation, it would be an amazing culmination of their character developments and to cap off such a spectacular friendship and story.

And perhaps this is the inverted Delta Rune at Kris' house. The two downward-facing triangles representing those hailing from the Depths---the Vessel we'll return in, and Ralsei---and the one triangle facing the Angel being the Lightner in Susie, who will save her friend from the Shadow of the Knight's Hand; the Angel's Heaven.

Boy, I love Susie. But in the confrontation of Delta-history, what's Ralsei gonna be doing? Sitting on his bum? Well, no. He's important, too, but for a different reason.

Ralsei: The GONER KNIGHT

What really is Ralsei? I doubt that he's Kris' horned headband or an object, because he would need to be a very specialized Darkner not just to fill the role of the Prophecy's prince, but to have all the transcendent knowledge that he does. And he'd need to be. . .alone in deepest dark? Like, why is that important?

Take a look at these lines. . .

Don't they sound. . .familiar?

And think of the context both of these lines are told. Not only are both Goner Kid and Asriel asking us to "forget" about them, but they're both proposing a world where neither of them exist.

Ralsei isn't just a Goner. He's a Goner of Undertale's Asriel Dreemurr. And I feel like this is not just a key to understanding Goners, but Gaster's motivation as a whole.

What are Goners, really? They can't be ghosts or zombies, because their colored counterparts are very much alive. "Copies are monochrome", after all, so they're copies? What for?

Well, Ralsei and the Vessel seem to answer this. The Vessel is a Goner, but specialized by the player to fit the first hero. What if the Goners were supersoldiers created by Gaster, clones that could handle Determination when Monsters could not? Hence, the Vessel and Ralsei.

So, yippee! We discovered what Ralsei really is! But. . .there's still one question. Actually, make that two.

Why does Ralsei need to be "alone in deepest dark"? And why, in that respect, would he be so similar to Spamton? Or rather. . .similar to Dess?

Everybody knows of his parallels to Spamton. The glasses, the transcendent knowledge, the hidden clinical depression, being controlled by a higher force while having the most knowledge about Kris' SOUL. And the puppet strings that used to puppeteer Spamton now serve as Ralsei's PuppetScarf.

But that PuppetScarf, according to Noelle, "feels like guitar strings". And like Ralsei, Dess, too, is alone in deepest dark. And when Ralsei sings the lyrics to Raise Up Your Bat, not only does he leave the "Lost Girl" portion unchanged, but Lost Girl plays during his soliloquy in his room!

And there's more;

The black deer in the Mantle minigame (that clearly resembles Dess) is obscured by the "black monster" sprite, and those sprites are usually associated with goat monsters

The same way Dess is often painted as the "black deer", Ralsei was introduced as the "black goat"

Both Ralsei and Dess are parallels to Asriel

I don't think I need any more explanation. Bottom line, Dess and Ralsei are both "alone in deepest dark". That has to be for a reason. The Spamton and Asriel parallels, being the "black deer" and "black goat" respectively, that has to be for a reason. If Dess is the Knight or will be some sort of future variant (don't trust the former, highly believe the latter). . .then, that obviously implicates Ralsei, too.

Ralsei is going to become the future Roaring Knight.

Or as I like to call him, the Roaring Knight NEO. This is a pretty wild theory, and it's kind of an extension of the Titan Ralsei theory.

I imagine this is the final tragedy. It couldn't be Ralsei sacrificing himself, because Susie claimed it was something Ralsei specifically wouldn't let happen. It couldn't be the banishment of Castle Town, because if Ralsei wanted Kris and Susie not to worry about the Darkners and spare themselves the pain, why did he encourage their RECRUITs if they have to seal Castle Town anyway? Only causing more pain to his friends.

If there's anything Ralsei loves more than anything, it's his friends. Being corrupted by the dark to betray them, to Susie and to Ralsei himself, feels nothing like him. And that's why he doesn't want Kris and Susie to worry about him. So they're ready to take his life to save the world.

I imagine that's why Dess and Ralsei even exist in the story. Other characters' motivation to save Dess is driven out of nostalgia, the comfort she brought, how she completed the family.

But never out of the actuality that she deserved to live. But rather, what she brought to the table.

"I guess I didn't mind being scared if it meant. . .someone would comfort me." - Noelle

"Then. . .we'll all be a happy family again. . .won't we?" - Asgore

Sound familiar?

“I’ll do every area. I’ll do all the work. The next time, too. You two can just hang out and… have fun!” - Ralsei

Ralsei isn't valuing himself for. . .well, his own life. Just for how he can help the Fun Gang. We're not gonna prevent his tragedy because he'll be our personal crashpad, we're gonna prevent his tragedy because he deserves to live. He deserves to keep his friends. And I imagine, that's how we'll save Dess too.

----

That's all for today. I absolutely adore the Fun Gang so writing these theories about them and their future really fascinated me. They sound sorta wack, but never say never. See y'all next time.

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

How I imagine the Roaring Group Chat

Carol: Susie nearly compromised the codes. . .we need to move up our operations. . .to festival night. . . Roaring Knight: Hey Kris I thought of something funnier than 1225 Kris: . . .? Roaring Knight: 1226 (cue the Knight and Kris' uncontrollable raucous laughter as Carol stands disapprovingly on the other end of the group chat making the grinch face)

Or maybe it's voice chat or smth like that

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

The Haunting of the Holiday Household (Deltarune Analysis and Theory)

Welcome back to the Witch's Brew. We've, uh, been closed for quite a while, but, I feel as if people need to hear this. Are you still out there? Good. While you're with us, have some French toast with some strawberry shortcake. We're talking about the Holiday family in this new series counting down to the release of Chapter 5, presented under a rather corny designation; our "Deltarune Tomorrow-Fest".

The Holiday family has been a centre of tragedy and mystery. With Noelle's growing prominence, Carol's mysterious and sinister affairs, the mystery of December Holiday, the lost girl, and how the Knight factors into all of this. Today, we will be poring over popular theories and stringing together our own thesis on what will happen to the Holidays.

Rudy Holiday

OK, I hate to break it to Rudy-Knight truthers because I think the theory is genuinely cool and the evidence and foreshadowing is compelling---but if Rudy was the Knight, the hospital would have to notice him going out at midnight to aurafarm at Kris' house, and his sickly ass would have to be PRETTY DANG STRONG to carry the CAR-LIFTING Undyne in the Light World and book it to the Shelter at the same time.

So, unfortunately, Rudy can't---at least, physically---be the Knight. So what about all that foreshadowing? What the heck is up with Rudy's unexplained illness?

Well, let's take a look at the Knight for a second. The Knight glitching out at the end of their boss fight. . .doesn't make a lot of sense??? I mean, this is obviously attributed to the Knight's similarities to the Titans and their Spawn, but they start glitching out only when a quarter of their HP is depleted. And even when the Titans glitch out, they don't actively stop existing.

Think about this. When the Knight's still glitchy and vulnerable, they SWOON Susie and Ralsei, and it seems like Kris---whom they're obviously working with---is the only one spared. But Kris has most of their HP depleted as well when you check again, and the Knight seems to be back at full strength.

I think the reason the Knight glitches out is because the Knight isn't from Deltarune's world---they're not really supposed to be here. So, they need to steal the strength of Lightners so they can materialize in Deltarune's world.

And I suspect that not only did they steal Kris' strength to continue existing in Deltarune's world, but they also took Kris' original SOUL which allowed them to open Fountains.

And I'm betting that they're taking Rudy's strength, too, which is why his illness is unexplained. And it's not just Rudy, but Jockington and that weird striped bird from the library, which is why their speech has been declining, and why they're conveniently at their weakest in Chapter 4, where the Knight is at their strongest.

But most interestingly, the Knight steals Lightners' strength, the same way the ThornRing depletes the user's HP.

So, let's talk about Noelle's mom.

Carol Holiday

When it comes to Knight candidates, it's either a candidate held back by actual hard evidence (Dess or Rudy) or a candidate held back by metatextual fluff (Asriel or the Vessel). With Carol it's just both. I'm sorry, but if it turns out the spooky character introduced for 3 minutes is the Knight, would anyone be satisfied? It's not like there's even that much evidence.

Buuuut, like Lukerfuffle proved with Future Kris-Knight, any idea can be compelling with some good enough execution.

I still don't think Carol could be the Knight, tho. I don't think Rudy would let Carol make her "proceed" if it was actually killing him, especially considering their relationship is sort of rocky. The Trance effect wouldn't make sense in that respect, either.

There is the possibility she sold her SOUL, and that's why demons seemingly haunt the Holiday household, and that's why she's somehow involved in the SOUL being used for Kris instead of the Vessel, and why she's so obsessed with heart-shaped objects. But what would she even sell her SOUL for??? She's the mayor of Hometown with a happy nuclear family. You could say it was to get Dess back, but these demons have haunted the Holiday house since before she disappeared???

However, in my research, I've deduced a few things about Carol.

She's a major fraud. As in, she seems to have an obsession with Dark Worlds and the legend of DELTARUNE, having faux replicas of important doohickeys; heart-shaped pillows that evoke the SOUL (possibly bought as a result of Dark World research), the black katana that invokes the Black Knife, and it's possible she's trying to replicate the ThornRing as well.

She seems to have an obsession with preservation. Not just authentic katanas, but bronzing Noelle's childhood snowflakes. Not to mention her Dark World knowledge; Dark Worlds can revive the dead, the Roaring sets every Darkner in stone, the SOUL can RESET endlessly, she's literally related to ICE which freezes things, therefore preserving them. Oh, by the way. . .

SHE DEFINITELY HAS A THORNRING. I mean, the way she lowers the temperature in the room with her mere presence, like Snow!Kris with the ThornRing. Her obsession with the SOUL when the ThornRing is an extension of it.

We can deduce a lot of solid conclusions from Carol's character that isn't just "Carol is the Knight" or something so simplistic. And with this, we can deduce where her character is going.

Her obsession with finding her daughter and preserving things provides her a good reason to help cause the Roaring; placing her in the sacrificial villain role, and at odds with Noelle and her friends.

And speaking of the Knight. . .

December Holiday

Let's talk about the girl of the hour. I still don't believe Dess is the Knight, and that comes down to a variety of factors.

Dess has a Shelter code. And judging by its' placement, it's implied she had to really keep it hidden, which implies she went there frequently. And because Gaster seems related to the Shelter (it plays the Entry 17 noise 666x slowed down, which are both numerics related to Gaster), and Gaster and the Knight's opposing interactions with Jevil and Spamton, and the Shadow Mantle's placement in the Shelter in the minigame, it's implied the Shelter is actually anathema to the Knight. Like, Dess even possibly has a Black Shard if that creepy 1225 secret is any indication.

There's a lot of evidence to imply the Knight is a doppelganger of Dess, rather than Dess herself. The same way Ralsei is a doppelganger of Asriel, or the reanimated Gerson statue is a fake of the real deal. The same way "copies are monochrome". Or the same way "when you have a bat (Dess)", "everything (the Knight) looks like a ball".

The UNUSED speaker is strongly implied to be Dess. Unless they make it Asriel or something, the allusions to late night TV (with everything we know about Tenna) and the Sweepstakes implying Dess' situation is code-related, all imply Dess is the UNUSED speaker. How can Dess be the UNUSED speaker and the Knight at the same time? There's the explanation that the UNUSED speaker is her SOUL and the Knight is her Darkner-ified body, but if Kris is any indication, that would have to imply the Knight would still be Dess with all her memories and such??? Not to mention Dess can still BODILY sense things like the scratching noise. . .

But the thing that disproves Dess as the Knight for me is that it's too obvious.

No, I'm, like, half-joking. I mean Dess as the Knight fits too perfectly. Look, Carol is a lousy red herring if the Knight's identity is meant to be a mystery. Sure, players won't get it on their first playthrough, but if they focus just a little bit, they'll notice a missing character---a character who's identity is currently a mystery---and a ton o' connections between them---and obviously connect the dots.

Like it or not, Dess and the Knight are related in some way. But all my other evidence points to neither of them being the same person, at least not physically. But. . .I realized something about Dess.

Dess seems to have a comforting aura around her, protecting Noelle and wiping her tears, promising her to take her somewhere with shining lights.

And to King, Queen, Tenna, and even Jevil and Spamton, the Knight has that similar familiar and protective presence.

But the Knight is also a

massive

liar.

That's when it hit me. The Knight isn't Dess. They adopted her cosmetic traits through their memories, as a protective pelt to manipulate and lure their victims into doing their dirty work. They aren't her---they are a corruption of everything Dess stands for.

And that's what makes their antithesis to Susie all the more tantalizing. Because while Susie never really resembles Dess, she does have her ingenuity, her rebellious but righteous personality, which is far more Dess-like than the Knight's fraudulence could hope to be.

So, what's actually up with Dess and the Knight?

Well, there isn't just an outlier in the Shelter codes (because why would Carol or anyone entrust the code to a notoriously rebellious teenage girl?) There's also an outlier in the heroes of Prophecy. The first hero (the Vessel) and third hero (Ralsei) seem personally commissioned by Gaster, so what makes the second hero any different?

Well, what if Gaster were to kill two birds with one stone? What if he PERSONALLY gave Dess the code, inviting her to the Shelter to serve as the second hero?

What if Dess is the original girl with hope crossed on her heart? It's an idea that makes the most sense to me, and is an interesting way to explain Dess' character, and the attention to detail in Dess' room, and her blacklit doorway implies she's created a Dark World before. I mean, maybe all the heart-shaped pillows were an attempt to create the first hero for Gaster? Or close the Dark Fountains?

Also, the placement of the Shelter code in her guitar implies she used to go there frequently. Being the second hero, perhaps?

And perhaps this is how she disappeared. When asking Spamton about the Knight, a familiar voice sounding a lot like the UNUSED speaker (who I believe is Dess) begs not to be obscured. This places the Knight as being somehow responsible for her disappearance.

And consider Spamton's parallels to Dess; Dess' page on the website is a [HYPERLINK BLOCKED] site, the title of which Spamton is obsessed with. The strings on Spamton's NEO form also "feels like guitar strings" and he literally references the UNUSED code.

And now consider Dess' parallels to three characters; Spamton, Susie, and the black deer from the third Mantle minigame. What they all have in common is that soon enough, they shall have been betrayed. This could be Dess' fate; betrayed by the Roaring Knight, who took her appearance as their own!

Well, it looks like despite the Knight's relation to antlers, snow, and Asriel, we've got no solid clue on who the Knight is.

. . .Or do we?

Y'see, if you've been following our content, my personal theory posits Chara as the Knight. I mean, it fits almost perfectly with their presence in the first chapter, the Knight's similarities to them and Asriel, the Mantle minigames and a bunch of other evidence.

But you can't hinge yourself on one theory on the basis that it beats out all others, because we can't be right on everything. We'll just set ourselves up for disappointment and failure because we're biased towards one perspective, instead of considering what Toby actually wants to write.

So. . .let's look at this at another perspective.

The Knight is working with Kris.

The Knight seemingly grants wishes (giving King new purpose, supposedly helping Spamton become a Big Shot, transporting Noelle to the place with shining lights, promoting Carol's resolve of preservation through the Roaring)---at the cost of truth.

The Knight seemingly has an unexplained connection with Rudy.

The Knight is very similar to Asriel Dreemurr.

The Knight is using a ThornRing on Carol---

--Hang on. That's weird. The Knight is connected to Rudy---and is using a ThornRing on Carol. The ThornRing is seemingly a marriage allegory, and if Rudy and Carol are married, but the Knight is using a ThornRing on her. . .is the Knight being a substitute for Rudy?

And if the Knight is using Dess' pelt to manipulate others, even fulfilling Dess' promise of taking Noelle to the shining lights. . .does that make them a substitute for Dess, too?

And the Knight seems to be working with Kris and has very similar attacks to Asriel, the God of Hyperdeath himself---an Asriel sub?!

It seems that the Knight is some sort of jack of all trades; serving as the Dreemurr-Holiday's absent kin. And that. . .explains. . .why they look like an Amalgamate---

Wait. Stop.

What if that's the Roaring Knight?

As in, what if we were all wrong in finding a candidate, when in reality, there was none?

Because the Knight only, and always has been, the Roaring Knight?

THE ROARING-KNIGHT THEORY

We know the Knight is similar to the Titans and their Spawn. They share similar design elements and glitch in and out the same. Is it possible the Knight is some sort of sentient Titan? A developed Titanspawn? We know that Dark Worlds are shaped by the will of their creators. Does that apply to the Titans, too?

If so, if someone had the will. . .of a specific person, could they create a Titan in their image? Sorta like Ralsei or the Hammer of Justice? What if Carol/Kris/Asriel did just that? And what if, who propped out, was the Roaring Knight?

I imagine that when we make Kris imagine the Knight, they immediately start thinking of Jockington. Not out of protection, but rather, denial. Because, the Knight isn't exactly wearing a helmet.

They'd like to think there's someone there. They'd like to think the Knight's an actual person. A knight in shining armour who will protect them and take them on awesome adventures, like Rudy, Dess, or maybe Asriel, or someone super cool like Papyrus! But the painful reality is that there's no one there. The Knight is a hollow, heartless monster that they thought could replace the ones they'd lost.

Noelle Holiday

OK, while it sounds like the Roaring-Knight theory has cosmic aura, but it's also really funny. Just, because it would mean this one meme has actual credence;

I still think Chara could still be the Knight and they're trying to replicate the Dreemurr's family troubles from their world to motivate Noelle or Dess into becoming someone just like them; a perfect companion like Asriel or the Geno!Player. But I still think Roaring-Knight would be cool for an AU or something.

Anyway, there's one character out of the Roaring loop. Noelle Holiday, and just like her sister she seems to be the centre of attention. Why is the Weird Route about her and why is her family involved as well? What role will she play? Why does she seem so important?

Again, I don't think she's gonna become, like, the final boss who has to be stopped. I want Noelle to get positive character development, and her conflict with her mother and her relationship with Susie shows just that.

But what is happening with her? There's the theory that she's the original second hero, but. . .I feel like it would be more compelling if it were Dess. Also, Dess just makes more sense.

Let's consider one thing; like Dess, not only is she the grand McGuffin, she is also the ultimate outlier. She is the one left out of the Roaring-Knight theory loop despite the fact she was the closest to Dess. She is included in the party despite not being a hero of prophecy. She is the central figure that's involved in the Weird Route, a route that quite literally defies the Prophecy and the game itself.

She seems to be the key to defying the Prophecy. Perhaps she is the Knight's ultimate goal; the girl they were meant to protect and serve, if the pathetic, dying light could not. And the key to freeing them from a Prophecy that dictates they will lose no matter what.

I imagine Carol perhaps incites Noelle to get stronger throughout Chapter 5 as they adventure across the Dark Festival and they send out more and more bad guys, and as Rudy's near death's door, Carol will ask Noelle to join her side. But with her actual growth of will and courage, she defies Carol and that cruel and heartless Knight pretending to be her sister, and defies who she was desired to be to become her true self.

I don't think Susie alone would be enough to encourage this growth. She needs a good influence in her life.

Someone who has their own sort of unavoidable "freezing" ability. . .

. . .someone who, despite their loneliness, has relentless optimism, courage and determination, even when their sibling isn't around. . .

. . .someone who could help Noelle rizz up the huzz, if he could play matchmaker with Undyne and Alphys.

Someone who revels in the snow (main boss of Snowdin) when Noelle and her family are strongly tied to it.

Someone who will believe in Noelle even if she doesn't believe in herself.

Someone who's already a sibling like Dess, but somewhat radically different to introduce Noelle to a new perspective.

Someone who could replace the absent Undyne.

Papyrus

NYEH HEH HEH! YOU THOUGHT THIS WAS JUST A THEORY ABOUT THE HOLIDAY FAMILY?! BUT NOW, THE GREAT PAPYRUS IS HERE, TOO! NYEH HEH HEH!

But seriously. Papyrus seems like Noelle's perfect mentor. He is so drastically different from all Noelle's previous good influences (rebellious, headstrong 'bad girls'), he would be unironically perfect, and if Noelle gets closer to Susie in Chapter 2 (who is very similar to Dess, who bears a strong presence that chapter), then in Chapter 5, it's most likely that Noelle will get closer to Ralsei, who is very similar to Papyrus.

Papyrus would also be the perfect Weird Route boss; as Undyne's trainee, he would come in mind to take her place if anything happened to her, and it's implied that Undyne would get Snowgraved. When Noelle has the power to summon snow and ice, Papyrus literally lived in Snowdin and his battle sprite is more frozen than a JPEG. While we transform Noelle into a callous murderer, Papyrus would believe she's just a good person riddled with mistakes and fear.

Papyrus, too, has a sibling who isn't always around, but that hasn't stopped him from finding friends he can trust and helping the King to save Dess (hopefully to earn him some prestige and friends from the town in the process).

And neither should that stop Noelle. Her sister isn't guaranteed to come home; neither are her parents, or Susie. She can't keep waiting for someone to comfort her. She has to believe in herself, act on her own will! After all, Papyrus would believe in her!

----

OK, the last part was literal fanfiction. It would be cool fanfiction, tho.

So, my ultimate verdict on the Holiday family? While some people suggest the Holiday family's dysfunctional supernatural maladies are meant to draw parallels to the Dreemurr family's fallout in Undertale, I simply don't believe that.

For one, the Dreemurrs are already there in Deltarune, and when their family fell apart in Undertale it was more natural. But in Deltarune, the Holidays' troubles are almost supernaturally perpetrated. Rudy's weird illness, Dess' supposedly code-related disappearance, Carol's strange ice powers, and Noelle being marked as a prophecy breaking fountain maker.

It's like someone wants the Holidays to become the dysfunctional family unit of the Dreemurrs and suffer the same problems they did. I think, ultimately, that is what's up with the Holiday family. The Knight's been trying to mold them into their allies by replicating the family disasters that made Chara who they are.

. . .Of course, there are other explanations, but this, I find, is the one that fits best. See you all next time.

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

MALADY

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

idk

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

of all deltarune characters to pick as their favorite or their best roaring knight candidate genuinely WHO is picking carol, like yeah she's ALLUDED to be a complex character but in a game with four chapters of awesome characters, who in their right mind is picking the mayor

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

CHAT

CHAT

CHAT

OK OK OK OK BUT

red dot, right???

red dot, right????

And while I subscribe to the theory that the ThornRing results in an extension of the bearer's SOUL, if this is the same for Kris---where does the "red" actually come from if they have no SOUL during this occasion? (According to Carol, it seems that this is the only SOUL in Kris' body.) Furthermore, if Determination is found in the SOUL, as the power to close and open Dark Worlds---how did Kris open one without their SOUL?

Unless, it wasn't their own Determination used to make the Fountain. It was someone else's.

CHARA-KNIGHT CONFIRMED EVERYBODY

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

Merry Krismas, from the Witch’s Brew!

We at the Witch’s Brew ain’t too crazy with the Christmas decorum, but we wanted to treat you to at least something. Here’s an art piece; but mind you, you might need to read some of our Deltarune Predictions to understand.

[thecoolerhuntermaximoff]

Crackpot Deltarune Theories (MARK II)

Oh! You came a little late to the Witch's Brew, we're already closed. Or are we just opening? Well, we have some leftovers of beverages and theories that I think you'll appreciate. I hope I'm not late to the party for this one. . .or maybe I'm a bit too early?

1 - Sans is the Roaring Knight

We're immediately setting the tone with the idea that the incredibly hard aurafarming boss is also the incredibly hard aurafarming boss in Undertale, aka Sans. But why do I think this?

Well, stranger, if you're a heavy Deltarune theorist, you're probably part o' the lot that assumes Sans is actually from Deltarune and he just arrived to Undertale. While, yes, this theory does make a lot of sense with the evidence at hand, there is one oversight. Deltarune's monsters can't use magic. . .so where does Sans' magic actually come from?

What if it's from being the Roaring Knight? And sure you could assume he's some kind of dispatch of Gaster but then we have the Knight resembling the Delta Rune, which is meant to represent the Angel, implying the Knight is therefore the Angel.

So what does it mean for the Angel to be banished? Well. . .if we're assuming Sans is the Knight and therefore the Angel, it could mean he was banished to Undertale. Makes sense?! It would explain his connections to Gaster and how he got here in the first place.

And during Chapter 4, the Knight is being a massive troll, leading the Fun Gang on, taunting them and breaking their spirits, opening multiple Dark Worlds and not even causing the Roaring for the sake of funny. They smile and laugh the entire time. And this isn't just because it's a Prophecy requirement, Kris is part of the Prophecy and working with the Knight, therefore sabotaging it, showing how the Knight's autonomy extends beyond the Prophecy.

And they knew Toriel wasn't here either. They did this all for fun. And the best part of it is, since they knew Toriel wasn't here, they---as Sans---could just defecate salt into the wound by dancing with her at home.

This is kind of an ironically compelling idea with Sans' morality having been changed by the time of Undertale.

2 - Sans and Papyrus are both the Knight

This theory is so wack it loops back to being absolutely amazing. Let's tally up some of the major pieces of evidence for Papyrus Knight. The mere fact of his absence is enough. You could attribute this to Papyrus just being shy or younger, but Toby specified on Steam that he's busy, a weird detail to include unless he was gonna somehow be important. And while Sans softlocks us into hanging out with his brother, the next day he says he's unavailable. And now Papyrus is growing more and more absent from his house. Simply being left out for laughs is one thing, but this seems way too. . .specific.

And then Sans gives us a lot of clues about his brother. "A day, maybe two years, maybe when your brother comes home----"

WAIT. Two years? That time frame clearly alludes to the release of the next Deltarune chapter. . .and y'know who we meet in the next chapter? THE KNIGHT. And a day had just passed in-universe, too!

And guess what? Not only is Bonetrousle the baseline for Black Knife, but there's a leitmotif of Black Knife in Dating Tense! And the Knight not only has skeletal aspects, but shares the exact same body type as Papyrus!

. . .OK, but, how would this make sense in-universe? It's not a satisfying plot twist because we've never seen Papyrus outside of a few optional interactions. And Papyrus is way too genuine and kind to be a monster like the Knight.

. . .But you know who is cunning, shrewd and rather amoral enough to be the Knight---and an unskippable part of the plot? Sans. While it wouldn't make that much sense for this rando jokester to be the Knight, it would make sense for Papyrus to be the brawns and for Sans to be the brains.

If Sans and Papyrus are the Knight at the same time, it would explain so many things; the Knight's connections to Gaster, why the Knight looks like an Amalgamate, how Sans can use magic if he's from Deltarune and why Papyrus doesn't bleed if Sans (and monsters from Deltarune) can, and why we have to "banish the Angel", who is implied to be the Knight themselves.

3 - The Knight is an ethereal being using multiple hosts

This actually makes a lot of sense. While the idea of multiple Knights is technically impossible at this point, the idea that the Knight themselves stay the same and other hosts provide as their vessel in the Light World to open Dark Fountains.

But does that mean that everyone will just look like the shadow of Dess when they're in the Dark World? Why does the Knight take on the same form regardless of the vessel they adopt to open the Dark World?

Well Ralsei didn't just say that the Dark Worlds gave the Light World a change in color palette. It recontextualized reality itself, essentially bringing out its' essence in a different kind of reality. A realer world. So whenever a vessel opens up a Dark World, they are shown as the Knight in their truest self.

In fact, there's evidence of this as early as Chapter 1, where we see Kris brandishing their knife and smiling with a flickering red eye. A knife and an eye (+ a smile), the Knight's motif. Almost as if the Knight is extending an influence over Kris to open a Dark World in the library. . . .

. . .of course before guzzling down an entire pie Chara-style.

And this would be really interesting if the hosts ranged from Kris, to perhaps Rudy, using him as a prolonged host it caused his mysterious illness that was never explained, and maybe to Jockington, StripBird, or that one Rudinn in Castle Town!

4 - Carol sold her SOUL and is using Kris to incubate a new SOUL for her

This theory is meant to kill a few birds with one stone. Y'know the theories going around implying the Holidays are haunted by a demon i.e ERAM or FRIEND? And how Carol, for some reason, has an obsession with red heart-shaped objects? I took issue with the former because I always found it as bland cheap shock value that explains everything by "this demon nobody knows before is responsible for literally everything". I know I also thought that for Chara as the Roaring Knight but Chara, to me, is just much more compelling. They have two games' worth of lore, character building and thematic merit.

And also what even incited this "demon" to haunt the Holidays?

Let's turn our attention to Carol for a minute. Her eccentricities seems to weird out the Monsters, which is especially weird with how the Monsters are a cornucopia of eccentricity; specifically her obsession with red hearts.

My verdict? Carol sold her soul to demons, and they have ever since stuck around her home. But why did she sell her soul? It couldn't have been to gain her position as mayor, she seems to be relatively competent in her job. It can't be because so she can become the insanely powerful Roaring Knight---the collection of red hearts makes this theory work, and if she's been the Roaring Knight since Dess' disappearance, which happened when Kris and Noelle were way younger---why hasn't she tried doing anything with that power, at least not until Kris was already a teenager?

Maybe she sold her soul so that she could control her daughter, but this demon---let's assume it's FRIEND---mistook that for capturing her instead. Ever since then she's tried to negotiate but---you see, FRIEND isn't very bright and just kinda screws around. So, Carol sought the help of another spectre; the Roaring Knight, who used a ThornRing to extend their--presumably human---SOUL to provide Carol just enough strength to find a new way to restore her SOUL.

And the answer lied in Kris. Using the Knight to interfere with the Prophecy to make Kris the incubator for the SOUL, to make it suitable for her to use.

But here's the problem for Carol. Dess and Toriel have been magnificent pawns in the Knight's game. Kris is proving to be one of their best allies. And the Prophecy is nearing an end, meaning the Knight's plans nearing fruition. Compared to all that. . .what use even is Carol?

So yeah, a lot of these theories are related to Sans and the Roaring Knight, so I hoped you guys had fun reading this, and I'll see y'all in. . .I dunno, a day? Maybe two years? Whenever the Knight turns up again.