This theory is going to be rather short, because the title is a nice summary really. If you read the artifact set lore for "Disenchantment in Deep Shadows" (sounds like my life), you will find that there are multiple similarities to our own mage.
First, the silver hair. This seems to be a very distinguishing feature, to the point it's brought up constantly in the artifact set. I have seen Pierro's character sheet and I am inclined to believe that he has naturally silver hair, not from age. This is also because that wouldn't be the only odd thing about him. There's the second part, his eyes.
His are not regular pure blood Khaenri'ahn eyes. Yet he is cursed. That means there is something else going on. I already made a theory before we went to nod krai that Hyperborea might be where Khaenri'ahns originated. Why is this important? Because that is where the "silver haired infant" is allegedly from.
They take her from the ruins of Hyperborea, the golden city, and she is special, the hair an important marker. She also becomes a mage. Maybe due to her odd nature, she is naturally suited to such an occupation? There is a high chance she is Pierro's mom ancestor, because there are way too many connections already. And if not that, then they are at least of similar origin. Whatever the Hyperboreans were up to, they could have made more than one silver haired baby mage.
Anyway, I do not feel like explaining further. We will probably hear more of her and Pierro in Snezhnaya anyway and will be able to deduce further if this is wisdom or folly.
I cannot believe Dottie was just casually waving an elixir of immortality in front of two Khaenri'ahns... in a funeral no less XD
In anycase, this is a recap on my stance with the harbingers and the newest information.
The fatui's affairs are more and more ridiculous than I imagined. I mean, one harbinger here was creating an elixir of immortality, that somehow worked on no one but his... comrade. But also, he somehow did not experiment on either Khaenri'ahn to make it...
Dottore casually mentioning the sixth seat is suspiciously empty... but he tenth isn't? Who is the tenth Dottore? Who is Pierro hiding?
Also, Dottore was obviously lying when he was telling his little backstory. Even Feofan interrupted him several times to correct him but Dottore did not give him a chance. I personally think that whatever Dottore's... friend wanted to say, it was more accurate. Feofan seems to be... very well acquainted with the subject matter. Business man turned test subject turned subordinate turned harbinger... What an interesting life he's had.
Then there is the fact Dottie keeps messing things up and the harbingers need to cover it up or make amends, even adjust their plans.
But... what if that is not true either. Pierro's manner of speaking, on both occasions so far, struck me that he was acting. Like this was all a big play and he was playing his part of the big villain. Not unlike how Dottore acts at all. There is proof Dottore likes his reputation worse than it actually is. Like he wants people to see him as the vilest villain.
This all makes me wonder, maybe he is not the only harbinger like that. Maybe they are all acting and none of what they make seen to the world is true. Would certainly fit their titles that come from stock characters for comedy plays.
Which means that there is a big chance all of this, all of Dottore's actions, were all accounted for from the start. That everything with Dottore was not a setback as they claim, but part of the plan.
When we first see Pierro, we see him playing chess with himself and he says somethings about wisdom and checkmate not being the end of the game. He seems very wise and knowledgeable, to the point even the archon of wisdom is impressed.
Do you really think someone like that, who has also spent the last 400 years with Dottore, did not know Dottore well enough to anticipate most of his actions? The gnosis is now gone, and I am betting Dottore has it and Pierro knows. This feels like one big play, one big game, and everything is falling into place. Just as it did in Fontaine...
Some theories even point to Pierro having taken into account that Thrain was to end up at that throne, and that is why project Mistleteinn exists...
In the end, I think Pierro is playing 5D chess with his harbingers, and it's all going as planned.
More than one has very draconic motifs, and to this day not a single explanation.
Exhibit A, Thrain:
Quite obvious points of interest. Scales on the overcoat. Scales on the forearms. Claws on the gloves. Fangs on the helmet's rim.
He's also the strongest "human" to ever exist... very suspiscious.
Exhibit B, Feofan:
The points of interest are more all over the place but still as obvious as ever. Scale pattern on the inside of the overcoat. Scale pattern on the front sashes. Wing like motifs on the back, also on the ornamentation on the sashes, maybe even the silver lining the inside of the coat. Literal wings on the sides.
Compare with Neuvillette and you find this banker more draconic for some reason. Though there are similarities in motifs, especially with the new outfit.
The brooch on the left side. The strand of colored hair. The two sashes on the front. The silver on the coat edge. The ornamentation on the cuffs and back. They are slight, but they give similar vibes.
I find it so odd that Feofan out of everyone has draconic features as well. With Thrain I thought it was just Khaenri'ah's connection to dragons (I have been onto that for years after all). And a draconic looking knight made sense. Nothing like dragon features to make yourself look imposing and dangerous.
But a banker? Why the heck would a banker need to look like a dragon? There is also the fact that the elixer only worked on him... maybe he is just more dragon than others? (or 35 is lying, like usual.) But Feofan does not have vishap eyes... Yet he refers to Dottore as a human in a rather peculiar manner too.
The tone was what caught my attention. It's like he is not the same...
In any case, I just found it interesting that we now have another dragon looking harbinger... Pierro, is there something you want to tell us?
Nicole, and by extension the seelies and angels, bears dragon related motifs.
(Look at her tiara and ear piece, then look at the inscriptions made by the pyro sovereign and the fins and tail of a koholosaur.)
If you are wondering why I think this is important, you can literally look at any of my posts. Phanes is a fraud that steals and plunders and he created very little. He relied a lot on what Nibelung had already created. Even when the dawn angel rebelled, her people still relied on the dragons to create (fae are made from dragon bones). Who is to say angels and seelies are any different...
Since writing this theory about how Nibelung could be the vinster king or have possessed said king, I have revised more lore and realized I was right about Phanes not having created anything at all. Not Irminsul, not the leylines, not the humans. Nothing.
According to Kukulkan and the lord of the night, Phanes modified the leylines. The leylines existed before Phanes. So it stands to reason that so did the tree. Which means Nibelung is the one that created the tree, Irminsul. So the chances of Nibelung being king Irmin, as in my theory, increase.
Also, these two accounts tell of humans as being "brought" or "tossed" here. Making it highly likely Phanes did not even create the humans.
Then there is these two accounts which prove Nibelung might have become one with the abyss and its will was now his which is why the abyss woke up his sovereign. That gives me more confidence that the voice that mimicked Vedrfolnir could be Nibelung's will. Another theory of mine.
There is also Nicole's teaser which just exacerbates the idea this Phanes brought his shit to Teyvat, tried to make something of it that was never meant to be nor was ever his, then failed miserably, and now he can't deal with the consequences.
Just give Teyvat back to Nibelung already.
In any case, I just wanted to share the proof I found that no creation so far has been proven to be Phanes'. He only steals for himself and modifies to his convenience.
Since writing this theory about how Nibelung could be the vinster king or have possessed said king, I have revised more lore and realized I was right about Phanes not having created anything at all. Not Irminsul, not the leylines, not the humans. Nothing.
According to Kukulkan and the lord of the night, Phanes modified the leylines. The leylines existed before Phanes. So it stands to reason that so did the tree. Which means Nibelung is the one that created the tree, Irminsul. So the chances of Nibelung being king Irmin, as in my theory, increase.
Also, these two accounts tell of humans as being "brought" or "tossed" here. Making it highly likely Phanes did not even create the humans.
Then there is these two accounts which prove Nibelung might have become one with the abyss and its will was now his which is why the abyss woke up his sovereign. That gives me more confidence that the voice that mimicked Vedrfolnir could be Nibelung's will. Another theory of mine.
There is also Nicole's teaser which just exacerbates the idea this Phanes brought his shit to Teyvat, tried to make something of it that was never meant to be nor was ever his, then failed miserably, and now he can't deal with the consequences.
Just give Teyvat back to Nibelung already.
In any case, I just wanted to share the proof I found that no creation so far has been proven to be Phanes'. He only steals for himself and modifies to his convenience.
Nicole, and by extension the seelies and angels, bears dragon related motifs.
(Look at her tiara and ear piece, then look at the inscriptions made by the pyro sovereign and the fins and tail of a koholosaur.)
If you are wondering why I think this is important, you can literally look at any of my posts. Phanes is a fraud that steals and plunders and he created very little. He relied a lot on what Nibelung had already created. Even when the dawn angel rebelled, her people still relied on the dragons to create (fae are made from dragon bones). Who is to say angels and seelies are any different...
Even the shades power cannot escape Irminsul's effect it seems.
It's true that Asmoday started preserving history in this temple since the start of the funerary war,
Or maybe right before because of this lady here.
But then there is this one NPC only available during the world quest that talks about the dendro archon.
This clearly shows she forgets about Rukkha after you do the Sumeru archon quest and instead only remembers Kusanali. (The people of Sumeru now remember there only being one archon that got small and not two separate ones of different sizes.)
This is really bad because what do you mean even the shades domains are affected by Irminsul? A domain specifically made by a shade to preserve history... can't because of Irminsul... This just makes me wonder even more who created that tree, Phanes, or Nibelung?... And why? Souls did not originally go there, they went to the moons...
So what was its original purpose?
(Side note: I doubt Phanes created anything at all. He might have modded the leylines, or at most added them to irminsul to mess with it, but even that I suspect was with Nibelung's help after the war. Phanes has not been proven to create anything so far. Only steal.)
A quick and dirty Nibelung timeline as I understand it after interviewing a bunch of NPCs in the temple of space. (Most of the information is from sources all over the game though. And forgive the somewhat messy content, these notes were for myself mostly, but they make for a nice 100th post XD.)
[00] Nibelung, Takoja Ianikuinen, dragon king, dark dragon king, black-winged lord, dark-winged lord, primeval blacksmith, great father of genesis, formidable father, forger of the earth's bones and the tripled moons, eternal workman, and lord of two natures, creates everything.
[01] Nibelung lives with the sovereigns on Teyvat.
[02] Seutervoinen comes and warns of destruction.
[03] Nibelung creates moons to govern while he is away.
[04] Nibelung leaves to find an answer.
[05] Phanes, the first, comes and takes over, defeating the sovereigns.
[06] Phanes creates his shades, then unleashes his humans. (The wording is rather odd in before sun and moon… like humans always existed and Phanes just let them loose onto Teyvat.) (Kukulkan says it the same way too.) (Now there is the primordial human fable… I wonder if nibbie had a hand. And WHEN was the copy stolen. If it were STOLEN at all.)
[07] The moons follow Phanes and they get along. People's souls are sent to the moon.
[08] Seutervoinen returns and sees Nibelung was gone, she then seduces the fallen dawn angel, Koitar, into rebellion. (They create fae from dragon bones.)
[09] Nibelung, as the second, returns, bearing the power of the abyss, and sees all the shit going on.
[10] The "great war of vengeance"/"war of funerary flame" happens.
[11] Nibelung imprisons the three moon goddesses in the moon's reflection, then turns the moons into weapons.
[12] Phanes destroys two, and flings the third beyond his egg shell firmament.
[13] Phanes gets ruined and Nibelung supposedly "loses" and "dies"? (No one is actually sure of that. its like a collective delusion.) (Everyone says "must have been defeated", and "as far as i know …(nibbie)… was destroyed".) (Apep says "died" then "returned after the world was irrevocably changed".)
[14] The nails were sent down some time after the "dragon king's death".
[15] At the start of the war (or right before shit went down), Asmoday starts preserving civilization and history. (But it's useless because Irminsul tampering.)
[16] The souls start being sent to the tree, Irminsul, instead of the moons. (But since when did the tree exist? Always? Did Nibelung create it? Or did it start with Phanes? Phanes so far has not been proven to create anything though, only take over and use.) (The tree and leylines have existed before Phanes, Nibbie made it I am quite sure.)
[17] The third arrives. (Maybe Nibelung "returns" before or after the third… or is the third too. Just kidding.)
[18] Phanes and Nibelung both create gnoses from the third. (Vivi lore says it plainly. It also says it was because Phanes got ruined…) (Third is called Saarelainen in the hymns.)
[19] The archon war happens.
[20] The fourth arrives.
[21] Vedrfolnir hears Nibelung or Nibelung is king Irmin. Or both (Dark dragon king, dark king, king of darkness, vinster king, king Irmin… It can't all be a coincidence.)
[22] Khaenriah gets destroyed.
[23] The fourth arrives. (Again? That thing with our twin is weird. I know we were told the twin is not a descender... but what if that wasn't always the case?)
The way Istoria says it in the new world quest tells me a lot about why I could not find any traces of the "dragon king". The humans likely know him differently, the "dark/vinster king".
Vinster means dark btw.
When you question a lot of the NPCs in the space temple, you quickly realize no one has heard of a "dragon king" Nibelung. Except Istoria.
Istoria comes from the age when the "dark dragon king" returned. And that's the whole point of this post. "Dark" dragon king.
Nibelung was never referred to in that way by the dragons. Only the humans. And that makes sense. The humans did not know him before he went on his voyage for an answer. They did not know him before he came back bearing the abyss. So of course they see him as the "dark king".
But that just leaves another set of coincidences. "Dark dragon king", "king of darkness", "vinster king", "king Irmin".
All of these titles carry the epithet of "dark". I have long harbored suspicions that the reason we could not find Nibelung anywhere, despite Apep saying he returned, was that he was currently in human form. Not unlike Neuvillette.
Whether it was to "imitate the victors" as Enjou described it, or because he was simply ruined alongside Phanes and devolved, I think in the end the result is the same. He now looks a lot less dragon.
But that leads us to the "king Irmin" title. I think that also makes sense. There is an NPC in the temple that says she is from a time the three moons still hung in the sky. She also says that souls used to go there instead of the tree called Irminsul.
If you think about it, Phanes was never proved to have created anything so far but his own shades. He hijacked everything Nibelung left behind and used it for himself. So when he destroyed the moons that the souls used to go to because they posed a threat to him, don't you think that he would have been incapable of creating an alternative?
So, regardless of when the tree was created, it stands to reason it was created by Nibelung. Therefore "king Irmin" of "Irminsul" makes sense.
Also... this has been bothering me since I heard it:
But this is where it gets a little messy because we don't know anything solid about it yet, but the "primordial human parable" could tie all this nicely if it is as I suspect and the humans really are referring to Nibelung when they mention a "dark king".
You first need to bear in mind that this is a tale passed down among the humans, who know little of dragons, let alone anything that came before. Therefore some reasonable assumptions can be made.
First, the "god of light" is likely Phanes, for I doubt humans would describe Nibelung that way, even though he is an elemental creature (and therefore more "light" than they think). They simply never saw him before he got dark.
And second, they know nothing of who came before who. They do not know Nibelung was the original ruler. It is highly likely Phanes was the one doing the taking and not the dragon. Phanes definitely has a track record for it. (He took the planet, he took the moons, he took the throne... need I say more?)
There is also the possibility Nibelung thought the human form had a key to their survival against their inevitable demise that Seutervoinen spoke of. The original reason he left Teyvat in the first place. Kukulkan was experimenting with it too (Ochkan).
Then there is also the fact that Phanes and Nibelung actually worked together to make the gnoses. According to Neuvillette and a bunch of coincidences like these:
So there is a faint possibility Phanes and Nibelung were not always opposed. Or even worked together after realizing they were both screwed from the war.
But whatever the circumstances, it leads to one end. Both forms mixed, creating the "primordial human". The vishap people.
I have countless posts on the vishap people theory over the years. A lot of evidence points to the Khaenri'ahns. And coincidentally, they have a "primordial" mark on their eyes.
Theories: vishap people and eyes
There is also the possibility that Nibelung was not physically present in Khaenri'ah, and was simply "possessing" the king. There is a chance he became the abyss and is whispering to all sorts of people. Like Vedrfolnir... and maybe the king if its not him.
More theories: ved whispers, the abyss is key
There is also another reason I just realized that makes this even more likely. What an abyss mage says to Dvalin at the very start of the game.
Dvalin is the anemo dragon sovereign. He has only one "true master" to serve. And that is Nibelung. If serving the abyss is serving his true master, then it is highly likely the abyss IS Nibelung. Or at least its will is his. So more points to the "dark king" title.
But this has interesting implications... the sinners are actually on the right side of this war, following Nibelung.
In the end, I think the chances are high that whenever someone speaks of a "dark king" they mean the dragon king. Especially if they are human.
Today I would like to share one of my beloved ridiculous theories. That Phanes is a chicken.
I have much proof that dragons and snakes are in fact connected. Many of my posts go over dragons and their lore.
That made me think that maybe the rest of that sentence has some truth as well.
The second half of the quote is related to the dragons and therefore Nibelung. The first half seems to be related to the story of Phanes and his eggshell/false sky.
So what if the statement is more literal? What if Phanes is the real emergency food here?
In the Sauron quest, the abyss seems to be fond of calling Phanes' spawn (the humans) chicks...
I just found it funny since I had been thinking Phanes could be a chicken for a while now.
People saying Crepus tenth harbinger, Kaeya tenth harbinger. I raise to you Anfortas tenth harbinger.
It's mostly just a hunch I've had for a while though. Anfortas is nowhere to be found. He is likely alive though since he is a pure blood noble and he left that message in Sumeru using the ruin guards around his golem, with his name as the encryption key.
So... where is this powerful Khaenri'ahn man?... Likely with the other two, Pierro and Thrain.
As to why he is hidden can be anyone's guess, but he wouldn't be the first Alberich to be hiding somewhere doing work under cover...
Remember THIS theory. Well yeah, now I come with something even crazier.
(Hymns of the Far North is so real for having a full-blown prayer dedicated to Nibelung though.)
As a brief summary, my previous theory went into how the same as the moonlight in Nod Krai is split in two, Nibelung was split as well. Kind of like the Deadly Selves technique actually... And now I am looking for a light and blue colored vishap person and a dark and red colored vishap person to fit those two lost halves.
Why those colors? Because those are the colors of the moonlight when it split in two. Why vishap person and not dragon? Because the game seems to hint that the human form is part of the natural evolutionary cycle of the dragons. (this happened mostly in the Kukulkan world quest)
So... lets look for our first half, a light colored blue vishap person... I don't even need to look because he's been there for a while.
I know you are thinking "this is the hydro sovereign, not the dragon king", but allow me to explain my crazy shit please.
It was never explicitly mentioned in Before Sun and Moon that the dragon king was defeated, only the sovereigns. But we know for a fact that he was defeated from Apep's dialogue.
So there is a chance that the dragon king is actually from among the sovereigns. And who better than the "heart of the primordial sea" to be the "great father of genesis".
There is also the matter of their names alliterating. I made a POST on it before, how alliteration was important to the Norse and how it might be important to things inspired from Norse mythology... like Nibelung. We also know "Neuvillette" is not his true name anyway.
Apart from the first half... we also have a second half to look for... a dark, red half.
This probably sounds even crazier but just think about it for a moment.
We KNOW EYES are very important to the lore (thank you Enjou). And he has more than just very perfect vishap eyes going for him.
That hand thing is suspicious too.
But think about the circumstances for a bit. Rerir, that has vishap eyes, likely indicating he has "purer" vishap blood (Khaenri'ahns were vishap people theory), is tempted by the voice of the abyss, that is likely Nibelung's will, and when he succumbs to it, his hair turns white... like the other potential Nibelung half, and he gets this hand eye thing with the other color too...
Who is to say he did not get possessed by Nibelung's more chaotic half, like what was happening with Zibala's deadly selves?
There is also a chance Nibelung was not just split in two, but three, using the technique of the three deadly selves. That would mean that they could be dormant and his will is moving around activating them. But that would also mean that we have a third self somewhere as well... (Vedrfolnir anyone?)
In any case, even if this is all nonsense, I still stand by my opinion that it is highly likely we have more than one "Nibelung" on our hands (lord of two natures), and that it is also likely he was reborn in human form like Neuvillette.
Thank you for listening to my crazy vishap people theories.
