It seems that my hunch was right all along, and so, I am here to argue.
Argue that Nibelung knew what he was doing when he sought out the abyss to change the fate of his dying world.
Argue that Vedrfolnir is right to do the same.
Argue that the abyss is the only solution presented so far...
and here is how it works.
Everything Alice said about the abyss in the event was important, but most importantly of all are the last few lines talking about discarded fates:
This shows us that the fates (or outcomes) that were different from what actually happened, get discarded and turn into the abyss.
This is VERY important because it means that if the fate we are currently headed to is bad... then a good one might exist among the abyss (discarded outcomes).
Nibelung, after knowing from the outlander scribe that Teyvat was destined for doom, went traveling in search of a solution. And he came back with the abyss.
I think he was right to do so. The abyss does in fact contain a fate different than what was or is to be. The only issue that occurred was controlling it.
This makes me think Vedrfolnir realized the same and decided it was worth another shot. For whom better than the visionary to navigate "alternate" fates...
"Those who can observe fate see both the good and the bad of what could have happened." - Alice.
What Alice says reminds me too much of Vedrfolnir. He is also "Blasphemy against Time" these days... which means time in its entirety is probably laid before him and all has likely already occurred to him, so he can try and change anything at any time. Even our future... for it might just be his past right now.
The only issue with the abyss is its aggressive nature... If it could be tamed, by let's say, with the help of a descender resistant to its corruption... then maybe it could work. I have a feeling that is what anyone who dabbled in the abyss, be it sinners, Khaenri'ah, or Nibelung himself, were thinking.
Alice also talks of how introducing variables made the abyss (alternate fate) appear. The variables "allowed some of these unchosen fates to come very close to reality"... this was bad this time because the chosen fate was the good one and the alternate one the bad one. But what if it was in reverse?
What if what had actually happened was the bad one where Dvalin dies, and the discarded one was the one where he is purified in time... Wouldn't such "unchosen fate" coming close to reality be a good thing? Something worth orchestrating?
And luckily, "(they) see both the good and the bad of what could have happened"...
She also mentions that, in the bubble, it was a nascent form of abyss that, if left alone, would become the real abyss. That means the abyss can manifest anytime something changes and threatens the chosen fate. Like a variable.
Now we all know who the variable in Teyvat is. This seems to be why only Descenders can change fate. By leveraging the nature of the abyss. And it also seems to be the reason why the traveler is such a coveted chess piece in this game...
So, in short, my long-standing suspicions since years ago were correct. The abyss IS a valid solution. Nibelung WAS trying to save Teyvat. And Vedrfolnir might be doing the same (under Nibelung's instructions if he's not Nibelung himself, but that's a different theory with its own set of posts you can check out). It's simply that no one could make it work so far... so they were treated as "villains who bring destruction".
I think the traveler shouldn't reject the abyss so blindly. The traveler might be the only one able to make such a plan work at all. Imagine actually trying to help the visionary instead of making things worse. But we all know how stupid they are so whatever.
I would even go as far as to say he is more dragon than most... maybe even Nibelung's reincarnation.
I've only ever seen that disconnected eyelash line on the hydro dragon sovereign.
He also has white pupils, unlike all other Khaenri'ahns.
There is also so much evidence pointing to Vedrfolnir being 'different' than everyone else. Some evidence even pointing to a potential connection to the 'Dragon King'.
Here is some of that evidence and its reasoning:
"Snakes and Dragons are Kin" and Khaenri'ah is filled with snakes.
"Vedrfolnir is Nibelung... or Connected". He's just that different.
"Khaenri'ahns are Vishap People". My theory ever since Enjou blessed me with his knowledge.
"Except for their Pupils". Scrutinizing Khaenri'ahn pupils for Enjou.
Just wanted to share a Vedrfolnir thought because I can't get it out of my head so I thought I would just write it down.
My latest post was about how long ago in-game it was said that dragons and snakes are kin (I will die on this vishap-people hill). That line just screamed Vedrfolnir in my head after we saw his chess piece and how the Abyss/Nibelung whispers to him... so now I can't get the image/headcanon of buff-dragon-catalyst-"meek seer" Vedrfolnir, whose boss keeps whining in his mind, out of my head.
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He would be huge like Varka, have fangs and maybe even a tail or some other defining features like Neuvillette, and would be a catalyst user because that is his weapon + the irony.
Long hair is a must too because fancy court member. And seeing how Neuvillette cares about appearances so much, and dresses well and befitting his status, I like to think that it's probably a dragon thing and Vedrfolnir would be no different.
Also, one can't forget the vishap eyes. Except his are really well defined vishap eyes, almost like a snake but still diamond-vishap-shape.
Forked snake tongue would be so cool too. The seer with the serpent's tongue...
He would definitely call himself just a "meek seer" or some shit because he strikes me to be the kind of person like Haitham and Enjou when it comes to pride. ("feeble scholar" and "lowly clerk" anyone?) ("dear creature, I am just a sinner" sort of gives off that vibe you know...)
I also have this theory that the Abyssal whispers could be Nibelung (you can find it in another post) and that gave me the idea that those whispers to him are like the whispers of Dorn's patron to Dorn: infuriating, ceaseless, whining, yet still his boss... (Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 in case you are wondering who's Dorn. Just my fav bg1&2 character is all.) So Ved is fed up with Nibelung's wailings but still has to listen.
Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. If I were a good enough artist I would have drawn him with all these details... but I can barely draw plain faces, let alone bodies and such unique features... If I am ever able to draw anything remotely resembling a humanoid creature, I will definitely post it... not that I expect to succeed, but I will definitely try because that's how much I want to see it.
Our trusty visionary Vedrfolnir seems to be more than just a clairvoyant human... so I will proceed to discuss and theorize about the interesting points about Vedrfolnir in the new 6.1 quest.
First, his regenerative abilities. According to Rerir, he has no doubt he can recover his sight in half a day because of his "abilities".
You might think his abilities are just his visionary abilities... but I'd like to argue about that. How would seeing the future obviously (according to Rerir) help with healing?
Answer; it probably doesn't (but who knows for sure, Teyvat has its own laws). I'm inclined to believe that he has great regenerative abilities. And that these abilities are what he put into the ring he gave Dain to reset his body.
They could also be "resetting" abilities... but that would just make him even more special. Why CAN he do something like that way before becoming a sinner? It only makes sense if you consider him special from the very beginning.
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The second point is his other ability. The ability to accurately see the future. It seems he is the only one that can do it this way. Others glean from the stars or hydro or something, but only he seems to be so accurate that all who know him know he is always correct.
This further proves my point that he is no normal human. Who knows, maybe too much pure bloodedness made him a dragon... maybe even Nibelung reborn... (insert my vishap people theory here).
I mean, he talks about vicious dragons like he's met them.
I actually find this comparison quite odd because at some point I believed Irmin could be Nibelung in human form (like Neuvillette)... or at the very least in cahoots with Nibelung.
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The third point is the Voice™.
The Voice could be just the voice of the abyssal will mimicking Ved... And since the abyss was brought in by Nibelung himself, I think there is a chance the abyssal will is Nibelung (or at least his will). In any case, don't you find it odd that it's mimicking Ved specifically?... (maybe he really did meet the dragon king recently).
And if the Voice actually is Ved, that means it's Ved from the future trying to manipulate Ved from the past to take the abyssal power, which is what created future Ved in the first place. A neat little time paradox for our temporally endowed visionary. How fitting...
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The final point is Dain. Dain was so obviously sheltered from everything in a way that tells me the Voice™ is most likely Ved.
Dain wasn't manipulated like the rest. Dain had a choice in whether he took the abyssal power or not, whether he became a sinner or not. Dain was given a ring to spare him from the worst effects of the curse.
So, thanks to stygian onslaught, we now have the weapon names and types of the weapons the sinners wielded. Some of the names are easy to decipher. Two I have no idea about. But overall, these names give me funny ideas as to what the sinners were like.
And in case you haven't noticed, this post is less serious and more jest than my usual content. Actually, that's just my usual content, isn't it?
First, my favorite, Vedrfolnir (just because I think he'll be more useful than his brother).
He apparently wields a catalyst, not surprising considering he is blind, but the name is what's truly interesting (and funny). Not "Hallowed fetters" but "Gleipnir".
Gleipnir in Norse mythology is the fetters (like a leash) that hold Fenrir. The big bad wolf that is a big part of Ragnarok.
If you didn't already know, the "end" that Teyvat is currently headed to is almost exactly like how Ragnarok is described. First a flood (Narwhal caused that in Fontaine), then a freezing (the fatui are probably trying to achieve that with project "Stuzha", which just means "severe cold"), then the battle where most will die (including the gods), then rebirth after all is destroyed.
Now the interesting bit is that, for the battle, both Fenrir and Surtr are a big part of it. And Surtr wields the sword "Surtalogi". So like how instead of the dwarf Dain we get his sword "Dainsleif, the same can be said that Surtalogi is a stand in for Surtr.
Also, if Vedrfolnir has Fenrir's leash, and Surt had an "all devouring narwhal" for a pet, there is a high chance Fenrir is Vedrfolnir's pet. This is funny because Vedrfolnir keeps giving out prophecies about the end when some of the key elements are his friends, his friends' pets, or his own pet...
According to the traveler, Vedrfolnir gave out that prophecy in Fontaine... the one caused by his friend's pet... I can only imagine how that might have went.
Vedrfolnir: (to Egeria) I see your future. Your people will be destroyed.
Egeria: How?
Vedrfolnir: They will be destroyed by a- wait one moment. (whispering to Surtalogi) You said you left your pet in the primordial sea, correct?
Surtalogi: Yeah, why?
Vedrfolnir: Nothing. (aloud to Egeria) -destroyed by a great flood.
Egeria: A flood?
Vedrfolnir: Yes. The primordial sea will flood all of Fontaine.
Egeria: I must warn them then. Thank you, Visionary.
I don't know, I just think it's hilarious that the elements of the end of the world are all connected to Vedrfolnir and he's giving out "prophecies" about that. I'm beginning to question his... "clairvoyance".
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Second, we have Surtalogi, he may be as funny as Childe at this rate.
His signature weapon is a bow... Yes, a bow. Like Childe. Who doesn't know how to wield it and throws the arrows. I think this is funny because the name "Gusisnautar" gives me the impression Surtalogi was just as hopeless with a bow.
The Gusisnautar were three magical arrows that always hit their mark, no matter what, then returned to the wielder...
Surtalogi was literally cheating. I imagine Surtalogi tried using the bow, failed miserably, then went like: "Well, this sucks... I'll just get one of the royal smiths to forge me some magic arrows. I'm not dealing with this shit"
So yeah, maybe Childe's lack of bow skills started with his master's master, and it has just been a deficiency since.
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The third is Rerir, Racher of Solnari.
How is this Rerir? Because all the other names are obvious. A process of elimination! (sorry, not sorry).
Anyway, this one's interesting because "Barnstokkr" in the volsunga saga is the name of the tree where a sword was thrust in it and only a certain hero (Sigmund) could remove it.
The interesting parts are not the tree or the sword or the hero, it's the stranger and this weapon. That stranger was Odin in disguise. This weapon is not a sword but a spear... Odin's weapon of choice.
Considering Irmin is another name for Odin and he was the last king of the black sun dynasty, that is opposed to the crimson moon dynasty, and this weapon speaks of it's wielder hunting the moon... there is a non-zero chance Rerir is Irmin.
Ok, that one is too ridiculous. But still possible because maybe Irmin was just a name the king took up, that would explain why Dain never says it. Besides it would be really funny if the king was one of these rouge band of sinners.
Nevertheless, the connection to Irmin is interesting, especially so since we know nothing of this Rerir.
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The fourth is Hroptatyr the wise.
This is one of the names I couldn't understand, but my friend found what it could mean and I think the story connected to it is very interesting.
The word she found was "Störkuðr" from "sterker" and "Höðr". This is interesting because of who Hodr is, and that he is related to the Ragnarok myth again. Said to be the one tricked by Loki into shooting Baldr dead, which is what starts Ragnarok in some renditions. He is also blind.
Blind. And he sets Ragnarok in motion... I just voiced my concerns about how all the steps of Ragnarok seem to be related to Vedrfolnir in some way, and now I find this.
I really do think that Vedrfolnir is trying to start Ragnarok himself, kind of like how the same happened in Fontaine. They fulfilled the prophecy on their own terms in order to shape it to their will and avoid the worst of it. I think this may be Vedrfolnir's plan as well.
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Lastly is Rhinedottir, gold.
Both me and my friend are confused what this should mean. There are multiple possibilities (some have to do with norse and some with greek) but none make anything clearer. I also don't feel like explaining all of them so whatever.
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And that's all the weapons. I wrote this post before the shades lore drop video so I am not going to discuss that here. I may not make a post for it just because I think the video is clear enough. I will just say this though, Pierro is highly likely an Alberich and I am so looking forward to the latest Alberich scheme. They tend to be very interesting.
Either way, the sinners are as much clowns as the fools that call themselves fools in italian. I actually think there is a non-zero chance they could be working together as the fatui are the ones in charge of project Stuzha, a step in Ragnarok, the grand project Vedrfolnir is seemingly heading.
This post is less theory and more discussion because I simply have no idea what the heck is going on with the 5 sinners thing. All I have in mind when I read "five sinners" is "Of five people, three must pay the price..." So yeah, nothing too useful... unless– no, there's enough crazy going on. I don't need to add anymore.
In any case, it's become quite obvious that the "self-proclaimed prophet" talking familiarly to Dain in his introduction might very well be his older brother, Vedrfolnir "the visionary".
A self-proclaimed prophet can be called a visionary, right?
Assuming such, I have several things to say. [A] That's cute. [B] When did he say this to Dain? 500 years ago when he allegedly betrayed him? Sometime in the future when Dain confronts him? [C] Who's "strand of blond hair" is it? I mean, there are at least 3 people with blonde hair that are relevant to this discussion. (I assume Vedrfolnir would have blonde hair as well).
Lets discuss the points in order. As for point A, I really hope Dainsleif and Vedrfolnir get along and settle their differences in the end. As someone with a younger sibling, I really hate it when this happens to siblings in game. Like, you two are brothers, who cares if Khaenri'ah fell? Sit down and talk. Your relationship is way more important than some stupid ancient self-destructive fallen nation. You two are still alive. Khaenri'ah isn't. At least understand each other. I don't know why, but I feel like Dain really just doesn't understand what's going on and that's why he thought he was betrayed. Maybe it's Vedrfolnir's words in the end, "such is the cycle of the world in truth", like he's explaining to Dain a truth beyond him. Or maybe it's because Dain seems to suffer severe memory loss and simply tells us stuff like, they betrayed me, rather than actual details. Plus, in one of his collected miscellanies, he actually says he's "long forgotten the happenings of five hundred years ago"... so maybe he really doesn't have the full picture. Either way, I've always felt like there's something weird about Dain... almost like he's clueless... yet knowledgeable. It's a bit like Alhaitham's "Book learning alone does not cultivate intelligence" line. Dain has a lot of knowledge... but he doesn't seem to understand a lot... or maybe he does and is just hiding it. Which reminds me...
I nEveR inTeNDed tO hiDe anYtHinG
I neVer iNtEnDed To hidE aNyThiNg
And many more, "I never intended to hide anything" from previous quests. The idiot has the guts to say that... You CANNOT tell me you didn't know your own older brother enough that you HAD to make sure first, or whatever silly reason you had, and left us without even telling us your speculation. A "he" and then he just dissappears. I mean, why couldn't he just tell us what he thought? What's the worst that could've happened? He would've been mistaken and that's it. Yet he was desperate for a chance to run and "hide"... just like this quest as well... [dramatic eye roll]
There's also that ring...
He was holding a ring tightly in his hand...
I know I keep bringing it up, but I'm pretty sure you understand why I'm very suspicious of that ring. Afterall, a very powerful cursed ring is the whole reason behind the disasters that happen in Wagner’s Nibelung ring story... which the names Alberich and Rhine gold are from. And of course Nibelung. A ring that in the original story, Odin stole from Alberich (which is why he cursed it), and it passed hands a few times after. In case you don't know this story, it's very likely the inspiration for another well know tale. The lord of the rings...
Now all we know is that during the cataclysm Dain said he went back to the palace.
and I think a lot happened there beyond the mere potential filching of a ring...
And after, zurvan says she saw him with a ring. And Irmin is another name for Odin... Then he has the guts to tell me he doesn't intend to hide anything... Well then, I'd like to see that ring, please.
He also still hasn't explained what "it" was... and that was all the way back during the chasm Dain quest...
Now point B, it's more than likely Vedrfolnir IS GOING TO say this prophecy(?) to Dain later in the game. Mostly because he says "original calamity". And his words at the end seem to imply that Dain has realized something and is at a crossroads of some sort... I think. Vedrfolnir, like every Khaenri'an we've met so far, loves talking in obscure, vague phrases. "He", "it", "him", "certain things", "strand of blonde hair"... So I actually have no clue about his implications, especially with point C still standing. But it could also be in the past, right after the cataclysm... but I feel like there's something off about that...
Point C, there are 3 people with blonde hair and relevance to the discussion. The traveler, their twin, and Vedrfolnir... (an assumption). Depending on who Vedrfolnir is referring to, things could be interpreted quite differently. If it's the traveler, then it's likely a discussion to happen in the future about his stance towards us. If it's the twin, then Dain might have realized some truth that has made him rethink his stance with the twin. So likely in the future as well, for he is still hesitant to draw a blade against our twin. If it's his brother, then it could be past or future. If past, then it was likely at the time Dain realized he was betrayed. If future, then Dain really didn't know everything. Or... there could be someone else with blonde hair and relevance that we don't know about...
Also, I think its very interesting how Dain's brother was connected to Chlotar Alberich... and now Dain has met Kaeya Alberich... I wonder what their connection might be. Enemies? Allies?... there definitely seems to be a parallel going on... It's almost as if those two bloodlines are fated to meet...
Anyway, I'm done complaining about Dain... for now. Let's hope his brother is more reliable... (I really think the abyss isn't as evil as they make it seem.)
And I forgot to mention but, why did our twin say dain was a traitor, then dain say that he was betrayed and another 5 people are the traitors... all I see is just finger pointing and no actual explaining going on. Can't anyone just be straight with us and tell us WHAT happened? I don't care who's to blame, I just want to know what happened... How can all of you be traitors?!
