PoisonMushroom

[toxic-blogman]

I cant believe that ang is friends with a dad fucker 💀💀💀

Apparently they believed it was a harmless fantasy and didn't know it was allegedly real but whether that's true or not I don't really care because associating with someone engaging in incest doesn't warrant a harassment campaign or a death sentence

If you have to resort to using the crimes of a completely different person to condemn Ang, you are REALLY reaching

[teehee-peewee]

I thought it was very cute how you unfollowed everyone except the two burners after I caught you following Z0NE I guess porn of underage cartoon characters is only bad when the person you want to destroy is doing it, right buddy? The cartoon porn is you assholes' only actual grievance and you can't even be consistent about it LMAO

If you guys read what i said, i dont really care about the proshipping art.

Ang admitting to getting off to little kids getting diddled and having incestuous thoughts about their brother.

I dont have to say much there

Call me a Hypocrite lmao, i made this account to highlight their past actions with irl people and how they damaged and hurt them. The cp just adds to how their fictional taste translates to real world actions.

[toxic-blogman]

"i don't really care about the proshipping art" - person who will not stop whinging about the proshipping art

Ang admitting to getting off to little kids getting diddled

And we're already back to fictional characters. That was fast!

having incestuous thoughts about their brother.

Weird if true but also a total nothingburger unless they were acted on and also not remotely a justification for a targeted harassment campaign

highlight their past actions with irl people

Your absolute best evidence of which is a horribly put together collage that

accuses Ang of "grooming" two 19 year old "children" based on.. an invader zim ship?????

victim blames Ang for being sexually assaulted for some reason

Evidence that's so laughably bad it makes your entire case look worse because you are so very obviously clutching at straws

The cp just adds to how their fictional taste translates to real world actions.

>refers to porn of cartoons as "CP", a fun weasel trick antis use to equate drawings with CSEM Fictional tastes also don't translate to real world actions as I'm pretty sure you already know.

If you want people to think this is about more than cartoons and your friend groups' personal grudges, you're doing a piss poor job of it. And despite all your pissing and moaning about "CP" you seemed to have no issue following an extremely well known creator of that "CP" you're so ready to condemn Ang for

[teehee-peewee]

"And we're already back to fictional characters. That was fast!" they said this themselves, who knows if they were only referring to art. but they have said before finding real minors attractive.

"Your absolute best evidence of which is a horribly put together collage " if you spend time to look around a bit you can find the same info from different people, even with pictures, can you believe it. i dont tend to do this sort of thing , i deemed this type of information important to have publicly.

" Ang of "grooming" two 19 year old "children" based on.. an invader zim ship" Ang Grooming the teens was referring to how they were *grooming them to draw more "proship" content this includes the their cp interests "refers to porn of cartoons as "CP" cp is a a abbreviation of child porn, in this instance its "fictional cp" but can still be under the umbrella of cp, i could also abbreviate "cartoon porn" to cp from now on for your comfort.

i didnt call the victims children but anyone inexperienced can be taken advantage of. this particular relationship didnt stay online and was in real life for atleast a year. this seem to be a case where fresh adults/teens where in a abusive relationship with ang with a sizable age gap. i have very little knowledge of these relationships but i have seen a pattern where they are usually teens/very young adults. there are also people who claim they dated minors but i have not seen any info on that. since they enjoy being in fandoms where the main fanbase are children and they enjoy drawing cp along with saying they are sexually attracted to minors- i wouldnt be too shocked if it was true. The abuse consists of verbal, controlling, guilt tripping, and rape(may or may not be true) accusations rape should not be taken lightly and accusations should not be tolerated if this person was SA they should receive justice but from the info ive seen in 2020 from either ang themselves or a friend. they referred "a bite" as rape .... ive seen similar accusations from future relationships -but i have no place to infer further due to the severity of it. you may have your own opinion on it. i also seen something where they gave alcohol to both of these teens, depending on where they are located this is considered a crime for a 26 year old.

"Fictional tastes also don't translate to real world actions as I'm pretty sure you already know." there are plenty of cases where it has, it doesnt happen to everyone but this person has shown signs that they are capable of doing so/leaning towards it. its now a viable concern.

"having incestuous thoughts about their brother." I added this here because of how often they draw incest and how its becoming a real life issue. they claim this is their alt persona sexualizing their brother but still strange esp with future contact with people who divulge in fucking family members.

there was some evidence i came across not too long ago that this person was in contact with someone who's in a sexual relationship with their biological father.

there is art possibly on this person's "afairmaidenvee" mastadon account where this individual was recounting their experience meeting angela vondra in real life with their father. and how nervous they were meeting them irl and talking about " being degenerates"

"have no issue following an extremely well known creator of that "CP" And we're already back to fictional characters. That was fast!

[toxic-blogman]

if you spend time to look around a bit you can find the same info from different people, even with pictures, can you believe it.

"it's real, just trust me bro" You keep claiming this evidence exists and yet no one ever posts it anywhere. You just play gish gallop with any random allegation you can think of. Throw everything at the wall and pray something will stick, right? "some said this" no evidence "I heard this" no evidence "I saw this somewhere" no evidence "it came to me in a dream" no evidence The only evidence you actually have is fictional fantasy BS from a website dedicated to posting NSFW art. Quite a reach! Even again now the only thing you were able to dredge up was fictional fantasy crap from an 18+ website.

there are plenty of cases where it has

Source: it came to me in a dream

but this person has shown signs that they are capable of doing so/leaning towards it.

The signs: 90% fictional bullshit (again) and a dash of guilt by association

enjoy drawing cp

>Refers to drawings of cartoon characters as "CP", a fun weasel trick antis use to equate drawings with CSEM Anyone else getting deja vu? Seriously though let me get two things straight with you; 1. Stop calling it "CP". Porn implies consent. Children can't consent. It's CSAM or fuck off. 2. Nothing an adult can create by themselves with a pen and paper or a drawing tablet is ever going to constitute CSAM. Stop trying to equate the two. You people putting the shit CSA victims went through on the same level as drawings of Foster's Home characters is more disgusting than any fucked up artwork of a fictional character is ever going to be.

along with saying they are sexually attracted to minors- i wouldnt be too shocked if it was true.

I'm sure you realize that they were once again talking about fictional characters and I have zero doubt at this point that you used the term "minor" to once again try and conflate fictional characters and real people. As always, every single argument you've made was either based on nothing or came riiiiiiight back to accusations based on fictional porn bullshit. Speaking of which;

"have no issue following an extremely well known creator of that "CP" And we're already back to fictional characters. That was fast!

No deflecting, Burner #2. You don't get to pearl clutch about ~proship art~ and "CP drawings" when YOU followed one of the most prolific western creators of pornographic content featuring underage cartoon characters. The hypocrisy is so palpable you could roll around in it and make snow angels. "Rules for thee but not for me", right?

[teehee-peewee]

k. information for the people sometimes rumors are true, sometimes they come from some basis of truth what i care about is how ang affect people in real life. i could go looking for all the evidence but i kinda dont care to spend too much time on this. when i have more free time i could try to look it up if it wasnt deleted for the 100th time

[toxic-blogman]

You are so fucking disingenuous it's amazing.

what i care about is how ang affect people in real life.

And yet you will NOT shut up about cartoons. Every single claim you make leads back to the cartoons. Zero evidence of any actual wrongdoing except you trying to make some psychological analysis over the damned cartoon porn. I find it REALLY weird that you people will claim over and over again that Ang's apparently done all this horrible stuff to real people but not a single one of you ever has evidence or proof to post. You bothered to save screenshot after screenshot after screenshot of the "CP" they drew on social media accounts (if you think it's "CP" why are you so insistent on spreading it around?) but not a single one of you bothered to catalogue any evidence. Tell me, Burner #2: If you really don't care about the cartoon porn and this is all about Ang's alleged actual wrongdoings, then why do you only have proof of the former and not the latter?

i could go looking for all the evidence but i kinda dont care to spend too much time on this.

And yet you have enough time to make multiple single purpose burner accounts solely dedicated to convincing people that a disabled artist deserves to die over cartoon porn...

ASIDE FROM THAT

It's almost like you're being dishonest on purpose!

They were hung up on me following zone toons. Kinda weird they stayed on that topic rather then dealing with the real allegations.

There is nothing to "deal" with because you have zero evidence for even a single one of the multitude of crimes you're accusing Ang of. What you are attempting is deliberate gish gallop and I'm not going to entertain it by individually tearing down the 3000 random assertions you're making with nothing to back them up. If you want your "real allegations" to be address then bring some fucking proof instead of "RANDOM BULLSHIT GO!"

I keep bringing up the Zone thing because you will not address it. It's a clear display of hypocrisy from you. You just deflect, and deflect, and deflect, and deflect. So I'll ask you once again; If you're so aggrieved by "CP art" that you would go to this length to bring a person down, then why were you caught following one of the most prolific western creators of cartoon "CP art"?

[teehee-peewee]

I thought it was very cute how you unfollowed everyone except the two burners after I caught you following Z0NE I guess porn of underage cartoon characters is only bad when the person you want to destroy is doing it, right buddy? The cartoon porn is you assholes' only actual grievance and you can't even be consistent about it LMAO

If you guys read what i said, i dont really care about the proshipping art.

Ang admitting to getting off to little kids getting diddled and having incestuous thoughts about their brother.

I dont have to say much there

Call me a Hypocrite lmao, i made this account to highlight their past actions with irl people and how they damaged and hurt them. The cp just adds to how their fictional taste translates to real world actions.

[toxic-blogman]

"i don't really care about the proshipping art" - person who will not stop whinging about the proshipping art

Ang admitting to getting off to little kids getting diddled

And we're already back to fictional characters. That was fast!

having incestuous thoughts about their brother.

Weird if true but also a total nothingburger unless they were acted on and also not remotely a justification for a targeted harassment campaign

highlight their past actions with irl people

Your absolute best evidence of which is a horribly put together collage that

accuses Ang of "grooming" two 19 year old "children" based on.. an invader zim ship?????

victim blames Ang for being sexually assaulted for some reason

Evidence that's so laughably bad it makes your entire case look worse because you are so very obviously clutching at straws

The cp just adds to how their fictional taste translates to real world actions.

>refers to porn of cartoons as "CP", a fun weasel trick antis use to equate drawings with CSEM Fictional tastes also don't translate to real world actions as I'm pretty sure you already know.

If you want people to think this is about more than cartoons and your friend groups' personal grudges, you're doing a piss poor job of it. And despite all your pissing and moaning about "CP" you seemed to have no issue following an extremely well known creator of that "CP" you're so ready to condemn Ang for

[teehee-peewee]

"And we're already back to fictional characters. That was fast!" they said this themselves, who knows if they were only referring to art. but they have said before finding real minors attractive.

"Your absolute best evidence of which is a horribly put together collage " if you spend time to look around a bit you can find the same info from different people, even with pictures, can you believe it. i dont tend to do this sort of thing , i deemed this type of information important to have publicly.

" Ang of "grooming" two 19 year old "children" based on.. an invader zim ship" Ang Grooming the teens was referring to how they were *grooming them to draw more "proship" content this includes the their cp interests "refers to porn of cartoons as "CP" cp is a a abbreviation of child porn, in this instance its "fictional cp" but can still be under the umbrella of cp, i could also abbreviate "cartoon porn" to cp from now on for your comfort.

i didnt call the victims children but anyone inexperienced can be taken advantage of. this particular relationship didnt stay online and was in real life for atleast a year. this seem to be a case where fresh adults/teens where in a abusive relationship with ang with a sizable age gap. i have very little knowledge of these relationships but i have seen a pattern where they are usually teens/very young adults. there are also people who claim they dated minors but i have not seen any info on that. since they enjoy being in fandoms where the main fanbase are children and they enjoy drawing cp along with saying they are sexually attracted to minors- i wouldnt be too shocked if it was true. The abuse consists of verbal, controlling, guilt tripping, and rape(may or may not be true) accusations rape should not be taken lightly and accusations should not be tolerated if this person was SA they should receive justice but from the info ive seen in 2020 from either ang themselves or a friend. they referred "a bite" as rape .... ive seen similar accusations from future relationships -but i have no place to infer further due to the severity of it. you may have your own opinion on it. i also seen something where they gave alcohol to both of these teens, depending on where they are located this is considered a crime for a 26 year old.

"Fictional tastes also don't translate to real world actions as I'm pretty sure you already know." there are plenty of cases where it has, it doesnt happen to everyone but this person has shown signs that they are capable of doing so/leaning towards it. its now a viable concern.

"having incestuous thoughts about their brother." I added this here because of how often they draw incest and how its becoming a real life issue. they claim this is their alt persona sexualizing their brother but still strange esp with future contact with people who divulge in fucking family members.

there was some evidence i came across not too long ago that this person was in contact with someone who's in a sexual relationship with their biological father.

there is art possibly on this person's "afairmaidenvee" mastadon account where this individual was recounting their experience meeting angela vondra in real life with their father. and how nervous they were meeting them irl and talking about " being degenerates"

"have no issue following an extremely well known creator of that "CP" And we're already back to fictional characters. That was fast!

[toxic-blogman]

if you spend time to look around a bit you can find the same info from different people, even with pictures, can you believe it.

"it's real, just trust me bro" You keep claiming this evidence exists and yet no one ever posts it anywhere. You just play gish gallop with any random allegation you can think of. Throw everything at the wall and pray something will stick, right? "some said this" no evidence "I heard this" no evidence "I saw this somewhere" no evidence "it came to me in a dream" no evidence The only evidence you actually have is fictional fantasy BS from a website dedicated to posting NSFW art. Quite a reach! Even again now the only thing you were able to dredge up was fictional fantasy crap from an 18+ website.

there are plenty of cases where it has

Source: it came to me in a dream

but this person has shown signs that they are capable of doing so/leaning towards it.

The signs: 90% fictional bullshit (again) and a dash of guilt by association

enjoy drawing cp

>Refers to drawings of cartoon characters as "CP", a fun weasel trick antis use to equate drawings with CSEM Anyone else getting deja vu? Seriously though let me get two things straight with you; 1. Stop calling it "CP". Porn implies consent. Children can't consent. It's CSAM or fuck off. 2. Nothing an adult can create by themselves with a pen and paper or a drawing tablet is ever going to constitute CSAM. Stop trying to equate the two. You people putting the shit CSA victims went through on the same level as drawings of Foster's Home characters is more disgusting than any fucked up artwork of a fictional character is ever going to be.

along with saying they are sexually attracted to minors- i wouldnt be too shocked if it was true.

I'm sure you realize that they were once again talking about fictional characters and I have zero doubt at this point that you used the term "minor" to once again try and conflate fictional characters and real people. As always, every single argument you've made was either based on nothing or came riiiiiiight back to accusations based on fictional porn bullshit. Speaking of which;

"have no issue following an extremely well known creator of that "CP" And we're already back to fictional characters. That was fast!

No deflecting, Burner #2. You don't get to pearl clutch about ~proship art~ and "CP drawings" when YOU followed one of the most prolific western creators of pornographic content featuring underage cartoon characters. The hypocrisy is so palpable you could roll around in it and make snow angels. "Rules for thee but not for me", right?

[teehee-peewee]

I thought it was very cute how you unfollowed everyone except the two burners after I caught you following Z0NE I guess porn of underage cartoon characters is only bad when the person you want to destroy is doing it, right buddy? The cartoon porn is you assholes' only actual grievance and you can't even be consistent about it LMAO

If you guys read what i said, i dont really care about the proshipping art.

Ang admitting to getting off to little kids getting diddled and having incestuous thoughts about their brother.

I dont have to say much there

Call me a Hypocrite lmao, i made this account to highlight their past actions with irl people and how they damaged and hurt them. The cp just adds to how their fictional taste translates to real world actions.

[toxic-blogman]

"i don't really care about the proshipping art" - person who will not stop whinging about the proshipping art

Ang admitting to getting off to little kids getting diddled

And we're already back to fictional characters. That was fast!

having incestuous thoughts about their brother.

Weird if true but also a total nothingburger unless they were acted on and also not remotely a justification for a targeted harassment campaign

highlight their past actions with irl people

Your absolute best evidence of which is a horribly put together collage that

accuses Ang of "grooming" two 19 year old "children" based on.. an invader zim ship?????

victim blames Ang for being sexually assaulted for some reason

Evidence that's so laughably bad it makes your entire case look worse because you are so very obviously clutching at straws

The cp just adds to how their fictional taste translates to real world actions.

>refers to porn of cartoons as "CP", a fun weasel trick antis use to equate drawings with CSEM Fictional tastes also don't translate to real world actions as I'm pretty sure you already know.

If you want people to think this is about more than cartoons and your friend groups' personal grudges, you're doing a piss poor job of it. And despite all your pissing and moaning about "CP" you seemed to have no issue following an extremely well known creator of that "CP" you're so ready to condemn Ang for

[toxic-blogman]

The OP of the post I reblogged (or her SO) made a burner twitter account where she accuses Ang, her victim, of grooming 19 year olds based on zero tangible evidence She literally never gives up even when her victim is going through EOL

[lullabyofbirdlxnd]

anyone hanging out here on behalf of ang vondra will need to submit the following before i will even allow myself to take even a single word of what they have to say seriously:

emails i have sent to any of ang's employers at any point in their life or mine, insisting they be fired over fictional art

any time i have ever said that ang vondra deserves to die of poverty and medical abuse for fictional ship/kink crimes, or that i would like or enjoy it somehow if they did

any time i have ever said in the past 7 years that survivors deserve to feel unsafe for being survivors, or for coping w/ trauma via the use of fiction (NOTE: THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE ME SCOLDING MY FELLOW INCEST, CSA, ABUSE, ETC SURVIVORS FOR POSTING GRAPHIC SHOTACON IN PUBLIC, which is explicitly a complaint with WHERE the content is being posted, WITH WHOM it is being shared, etc., and not a complaint with the content simply existing and benefiting survivors who use fiction to cope)

a 10k word essay proving that you understand my actual, mostly unchanging views on fictional ships and kinks that i have held for the past 7 or so years of my life, and you're not just getting them from your nutjob friends, including a good thousand or so words on the trauma the anti AND proship communities have caused to me at pivotal points in my development as both a very young child and a teenager

an at least neutral score on the IAT regarding biases towards human beings of african descent. and no, you don't get to ignore the rules of the test and slow down. you have to do the flashcard shit assigning descriptions to black and white children. you have to actually admit that sometimes, even if in the back of your mind, you see black expression as inherently more aggressive or mean than white expression.

basic literacy whether regarding fiction/media or real life human communication, psychology, sociology, etc (i imagine this is the one where folks'll get a bit tripped up but i'm afraid i cannot budge even a little bit on any of these criteria, much less this one in particular)

a "distressing meme" that meets my personal standards of actually being creepy and disturbing. if you post a "skinwalker" meme or something about gendered violence in my goddamn inbox i'm just outright blocking you, because you could not possibly have anything of value to say to me, or, frankly, anyone

if even a single one of these is missing from your complaint, i'm sorry, but i have to shred it. the rules are da rules and da facts are da facts. And when you accuse someone of murder because they think there should be basic ethics and standards in drawing little boy penis to cope, you gotta pay da tax (submit the above materials)

[toxic-blogman]

It's been real neat watching every single one of you throw your hands up and claim no wrongdoing like you didn't spend a year gleefully harassing them, misgendering them, and clapping like a fucking seal as the supreme efforts of your equally horrible friends gradually stripped them of their livelihood and support systems. You, like all the other lunatics, tried to justify your targeted harassment campaign - fully intended to ruin their life as much as possible - with madeup garbage about how the fiction thing make da thing happen for realz! Like that isn't a worn out crusty conservative talking point that we as a society grew tired of before any of us were even born. It's never been about protecting kids from grooming. If you cared about that at all then you would go after actual groomers or mechanisms that allow them access to kids instead of specifically targeting vulnerable people who create certain types of fiction. You cretins just want an excuse to hurt and mistreat easy targets because you're fundamentally terrible human beings.

You all knew what you were doing. What did you think was going to happen when you systematically deprived a disabled person of access to employment and by extension, healthcare?

[toxic-blogman]

I would love to study you. Which Petri dish did u spawn from

lol you also think fictional characters are real people

[toxic-blogman]

holy shit. u weren’t kidding. god help you brother there’s something absolutely fucked afoot at the circle k which is your brain

Can you really say that about anyone when you're out here thinking that fictional characters are real people?

[sad-boy-coven-moved-deactivated]

Im sorry this is true. Happened to me so i can vouch.

[toxic-blogman]

When your “expressing discomfort” is:

telling people to kill themselves

spewing disinformation

spewing heinous accusations at people (pedophile/rapist/zoophile etc) over fictional bullshit

engaging in harassment yourself

painting a target on someone for your followers to harass them

it’s not “expressing discomfort” anymore

[toxic-blogman]

Not wanting people to get off to porn of kids fucking isn’t Puritanism thanks. It’s actually called being a human being with a functioning set of morals. Like rip to you for wanting to beat off to kiddie porn or whatever but some of us are actually decent people.

thinking fictional characters are real people = having morals trying to censor all fictional content that upsets you using whatever bullshit you can possibly come up with = isn't Puritanism ok dude

[profic-miku]

antis; "stop saying it's just fiction!! I know that!!" do you? do you, though?

[toxic-blogman]

They’ll say something that conflates fictional characters and real people, claim they know fictional characters and real people aren’t the same, and then follow up by conflating fictional characters and real people again.

[marshemillow]

Reminder that if what you say sounds almost verbatim like something Jack Thompson would say, you’re probably not as left-leaning as you think you are.

[toxic-blogman]

Antis will criticize us for constantly making this point, but they never have an argument against it. Usually they just sidestep or deflect, but like 1/10 of them will completely agree and will actually support moral panics like “video games cause violence” just to give their argument credence.

[fite-club]

the greatest trick online predators ever pulled was convincing teenagers that “people who are not cool with pedo/incest/rape/etc fanfiction” and “bullies who tell people to kill themselves over fandom” are the same singular group

[fite-club]

thanks @toxic-blogman for providing an example of the exact shit i’m talking about! you have a brain the size of a raisin and you spend waaay too much of your free time fighting for your right to face zero consequences or reactions for sexualizing children. maybe put some of that time into reading actual books about adult relationships?

[toxic-blogman]

Why are you still conflating fictional characters with real people? It’s actually baffling. You claim that you aren’t doing it, but then you deliberately engage in decontextualization to make it sound like actual real kids are being preyed on and harmed - not narrative tools that don’t actually exist. What’s also grimy here is you thinking that people need to face consequences for the horrible crime of merely consuming fiction that you find icky. Antis, when you boil it down, are made up of two groups of people - those who just want to bully people for the crime of being “weird”, and those who mistake their own feelings of personal disgust for objective fact and want to censor anything they’re disgusted by. But much like the aforementioned venn diagram of antis and evangelicals, these two groups also form a venn diagram and judging by your desire to see “consequences” over the existence of things that offend you and you giving asspats to antis who actively engage in doxxing and harassment, you fit perfectly in the middle.

[fite-club]

i have not once ever said that fictional characters are real people, nor have i implied that fictional child porn is as bad as IRL child porn. find me proof that i did, i dare you.

i don't think people who champion for this kind of disturbing content NEED to face consequences; rather, i think they deserve the consequence of social shame. just like how i think someone who tells/laughs at racist jokes or lies to their advantage deserves the consequence of social shame. it benefits a community to oust and ostracize those that are harmful-- just because you, personally, subjectively think that what you're doing is okay and not harmful, doesn't mean that everyone else is forcing their objective views onto you. it means you're unaware of the harm you're contributing to, and worse, you're actively denying it. it's not just "weird" to enjoy consuming child porn, it's disturbing, and an indication of predatory desires, and a disrespect for the victims of CSA/rape, and an abysmal "coping mechanism" for survivors that contributes to the normalization of CSEM and the cycle of abuse.

you saying "[extremely wide group of people with varying opinions] when you boil it down, have one of two opinions" reveals how you actually process the world: as black and white, as good guys and bad guys, no other options. this is the point of my original post--it is impossible for you to perceive nuance--and it's going over your head over and over again. i don't want to censor anything. never said or implied so. but you automatically assume that i do, because then you get to take a stand against this opinion i don't actually have and make yourself feel like the "good guy". bad guys believe in censorship, and you think i'm a "bad guy", so obviously i must believe in censorship. i think child porn is gross, so obviously i must think it's good for people to doxx others. for all your talk about causation and correlation, you sure as fuck love correlating my discomfort with CSEM with unrelated views like "loves to suicide bait". because it's easier for you to imagine me as an irate, bigoted, boot-licking puritan than a reasonable, well-intentioned, intelligent artist, right? one of those people is waaaay easier to dismiss as spouting bullshit.

i am an atheist who was raised in a decade+ of private catholic school in the deep south. i am gay, trans, punk, and horny. i have been on the receiving end of microaggressions, verbal harassment, discrimination, and actual censorship. i am not an evangelical puritan and i don't appreciate you calling me one considering all that i've been through. you don't get to lump me in with those people. you don't GET to say i'm just as bad for being against posting child porn. you fucking don't! you can't even explain any similarity between the two venn diagram circles beyond "people i think are bad"! the fact that people are telling you they're offended doesn't mean they're pearl-clutching prudes, it means you're doing something offensive. the least you could do is shut the fuck up about it, post and read that shit privately, and deny any involvement with it. why is that so hard? genuinely why do you care this much about who's speaking out against the sexualization of fictional children, if not because you want to normalize sexualizing children? and you see nothing wrong, at all, whatsoever with that???

[toxic-blogman]

How are you going to start your reblog off like that and then in the VERY NEXT PARAGRAPH go back to decontextualizing and misrepresenting NSFW of non-existent fictional characters as “child porn”. You claim you don’t see them as real people, but you keep drawing comparisons between shit about fiction to real world harmful beliefs and behaviours. You say X and then immediately do the opposite. 

the harm you’re contributing to

The harm that doesn’t exist. You’re confusing your personal feelings of disgust for objective fact again.

it’s disturbing

confusing your personal feelings of disgust for objective fact again

and an indication of predatory desires

You made that up. Again.

disrespect for the victims of CSA/rape

“Nothing that someone might’ve been traumatized by should ever be enjoyed in fiction”

an abysmal “coping mechanism”

“I, a random person on the internet who draws furry porn, knows more about what is and isn’t a good coping mechanism than actual mental health professionals.”

contributes to the normalization of CSEM and the cycle of abuse

You made that up, too. Again. You’re also arguing, again, that fiction <thing> cause real <thing>. I don’t even think you realize you’re doing it.

i don’t want to censor anything

“I just think people who create or consume fictional content that bothers me should be harassed, ostracized and labeled as pedophiles.” (as per your second paragraph and your general rhetoric starting from the original post). If that’s not a desire for censorship, then what the fuck is? Being an anti inherently comes from a position of bad faith. "antishipping” was fundamentally about harassment from DAY 1 during the VLD drama - and it was always “antishipping”, not “anti-pedophilic ships”. You made that up, too. The idea that bad fiction causes irl harm, or that the fictional content you create or consume is either indicative of or causes irl immortality is already an extreme position and trying to pretend that it’s actually a nuanced, balanced take is just a thinly veiled attempt to shift the Overton window. In the tags in your OP, you immediately downplay the harassment and bullying of REAL PEOPLE (not fictional) over FICTIONAL CHARACTERS (not real people). Downplaying it, attempting to posit it as “less harmful” than what their targets (those horrible icky weirdos~) are doing is absolutely support of harassment. Being gay or trans or discriminated against does not preclude you from spewing right wing rhetoric. It is kind of funny - y’all whine that proshippers use this argument against you and yet you never have ANY response other than “well gay, how can I be reading out of the conservative playbook???” Do you know why these comparisons are made about you? Comparisons between antishippers and right wing puritans and conservative moral panics? It’s because every single argument y’all use - and I mean literally every argument - is taken 100% verbatim 100% word for word from 50+ years of crusty catholics railing against various forms of fiction. You regurgitate all of their exact talking points just with different subject matter swapped in. Like, if I grab a quote from, say, Jack Thompson, and I swap out [violent video game] and [some kind of violent crime] for [proshipping] and [pedophilia], he sounds just like you. If I take one of your diatribes about proshipping “normalizing” pedophilia and I swap it out for video games and violence, you sound like Jack Thompson.

This is not rocket science. When someone who has never groomed anyone in his life goes on a rampage and looks like Jeffrey Epstein, he's a proshipper.“

it’s not just “weird” to enjoy violent video games, it’s disturbing, and an indication of violent desires, and a disrespect for the victims of mass shootings, and an abysmal “coping mechanism” for survivors that contributes to the normalization of violence and the cycle of abuse

But the idea of these video games that dehumanize individuals to have a game of shooting individuals and others – I’ve always felt that is a problem for future generations and others. We’ve watched from studies shown before of what it does to individuals. When you look at these photos of how it took place, you can see the actions within video games and others.

Top is an edited Jack Thompson quote. Middle is an edited You quote. Bottom is a real quote from a Republican politician. You sound like them. They sound like you. 

And then you end by misrepresenting proshipping as “child porn” (a term which refers to actual CSEM), treating your personal feelings like objective fact (again), state a pro censorship position for content you find offensive (here you confuse your personal feelings of disgust for objective fact... yet again), and then finally more blind claims of “normalizing”.  It’s also very funny that you claim to create furry porn, because by your own deranged logic you are “normalizing” bestiality and zoophilia. Furry antis are just the absolute best - you gleefully use talking points that can be reversed and deployed against your own fixations. You’re pointing a gun at yourself to hit the guy behind you. Most of the rest of your end is just you doing the same things again (positing proshipping as CSEM, blind claims of “normalizing”) but then you say some real grimy stuff:

the fact that people are telling you they’re offended doesn’t mean they’re pearl-clutching prudes, it means you’re doing something offensive

This goes a little beyond presenting your own personal feelings of disgust for objective fact - you strip the subjectivity out of “offensive” and present all feelings of personal disgust as objective fact. This is another ass backwards talking point that can be deployed not only against you (gestures vaguely at the absurd number of incredibly vocal people who absolutely cannot stand furries and refer to you as zoophiles) but against anyone who consumes or creates any form of content that is even remotely controversial. And then you get even worse somehow:

the least you could do is shut the fuck up about it, post and read that shit privately, and deny any involvement with it

Earlier you claim you don’t want to censor anything, but then here you claim that content that offends you should be suppressed, never shared, never mentioned. This is blatantly a pro-censorship position - which is a pretty puritanical position to take when you consider that your personal feelings and kneejerk emotional reactions towards proshipping constitute your entire argument.

[fite-club]

the greatest trick online predators ever pulled was convincing teenagers that “people who are not cool with pedo/incest/rape/etc fanfiction” and “bullies who tell people to kill themselves over fandom” are the same singular group

[fite-club]

thanks @toxic-blogman for providing an example of the exact shit i’m talking about! you have a brain the size of a raisin and you spend waaay too much of your free time fighting for your right to face zero consequences or reactions for sexualizing children. maybe put some of that time into reading actual books about adult relationships?

[toxic-blogman]

Why are you still conflating fictional characters with real people? It’s actually baffling. You claim that you aren’t doing it, but then you deliberately engage in decontextualization to make it sound like actual real kids are being preyed on and harmed - not narrative tools that don’t actually exist. What’s also grimy here is you thinking that people need to face consequences for the horrible crime of merely consuming fiction that you find icky. Antis, when you boil it down, are made up of two groups of people - those who just want to bully people for the crime of being “weird”, and those who mistake their own feelings of personal disgust for objective fact and want to censor anything they’re disgusted by. But much like the aforementioned venn diagram of antis and evangelicals, these two groups also form a venn diagram and judging by your desire to see “consequences” over the existence of things that offend you and you giving asspats to antis who actively engage in doxxing and harassment, you fit perfectly in the middle.

[toxic-blogman]

Lowkey wish I could share some of the abuse I’ve gotten on my mains here but I think that would be overall more harmful to me than any potential catharsis it might provide

[astoriavixen-deactivated2024030]

@antiproshipping My roommate successfully reminded me about the screenshots, so here we go. This is what I mentioned about Wizard-Antis falsely accusing someone of being a minor because of their inability to read, before doubling down, and then dropping random Pedophilia allegations they refuse to substantiate.

I'm usually more coherent than this, but tonight? I'm admittedly tired from work. There won't be much eloquence here.

As a note, Wizard-antis has deleted the initial post and their complaint about Tumblr refusing to take down Pupwhore's blog. I sadly didn't get a screencap of the second post, everything else however...

For full transparency, I know between Jack and shit about Wizard-antis. They show up on my recommended/for you tab because I do follow Proship content, and they do use the phrase in their posts often enough. That's actually how the call-out post crossed my dash to begin with.

Quick note: CP and CSEM are the same thing. CSEM is the preferred term, standing for Child Sexually Exploitative Material. I quote Wizard as saying CP, but throughout the post I call it CSEM. Please note these are the same thing.

...and before I begin, one thing I'm not going to waste time addressing beyond this paragraph because it's a nonissue. Wizard mentions a hentai image on Pups blog. I'm not addressing Wizard reading the image as rape, I saw the image and it was absolutely a grey area in both the age of the recipient character and the state of consent (with nothing to go off of but two frames, I can't solidly tell you the characters age or whether or not the scene was rape. It takes more than two panels with minimal dialogue to determine consent, and the character getting screwed was drawn in a way that makes their age ambiguous.) They aren't drawn like a young child, but if you told me they were 18-21 I'd buy it. The character had a similar body type to me and I'm in my 20s. Wizard interpreting that scene the way they did isn't what I care to address here. They had two panels to go off of. If that's what they got from the image, so be it, and good on them for tagging what they perceived as rape. They did a good thing there, better to tag where it isn't needed than to neglect to do so where a tag is required.

To start, here's the initial post that crossed my feed.

Now, Wizard was kind enough to include the post in question, albeit with the images censored. So we can see the immediate and blatant lie at face value. You'll see why I fully believe this to be a lie later on, because I'll address that when I address the random inclusion of Proshippers in this post.

Plainly, however, Pupwhore doesn't say "minor" anywhere in their caption. They have "minors DNI" as a tag, in fact. What Pup says is "Don't mind the dirty *mirror.*" A comment that would make more sense if you could see the images.

There they are, for reference. Pup is fully clothed in this image. I didn't see these until later.

Regardless, Wizard doesn't call it "CP" in this post, that actually comes later, but we'll get to that.

When I saw the initial awareness message(?), I figured they just misread the post. I didn't have my glasses on when I saw the screencap, and misread it myself. It was only after a second read through that I went "wait. That's not what that says."

I checked Pupwhore's bio, too. No mention of being a minor, his blog is explicitly +18.

Now, stupidly, I give the benefit of the doubt to Wizard because I misread the post at first, maybe they did too. I send them an ask explicitly saying "hey, the screenshot you provided says mirror, not minor. I think you misread the post."

Cue the tantrum.

This would be where Wizards calls the images CP, and blatantly misrepresents the ask in question. It didn't address the images (I hadn't seen them at this point), it doesn't even make a comment on the allegations themselves. It mentioned they misread something, which they did. Pup doesn't say "sorry for the dirty minor." Nowhere does Pup say "minor" except for the "Minors DNI" in his tags.

This is also why I included the images. I really need to hammer home that this is not CSEM. Pup is fully clothed and sitting on his bed. This isn't fucking CSEM. The worst things Pup has on his page, about himself, overall (not even in the post Wizard is complaining about) are an image of rope marks on his stomach (no nudity outside a lifted shirt to show his stomach, no genitalia are shown), and a picture of him with ropes under his clothes (which is actually suggestive, but still features no genitals and only shows his stomach). It's an +18 blog with "Minors DNI" on it, there is no indication here that Pup is a minor outside of Wizard misreading a post and then doubling down.

The "boy thighs" thing? That's, not an indication of age either. It's really not. I talk about "girl cock" with alarming regularity, because that's the phrase I learned from trans women to refer to a penis in those instances. The person I refer to when I say it? She's 20. Appending "boy/girl" to a phrase doesn't really indicate age. Neither does using Pup as a name. Full grown people in the BSDM scene use Pup/Puppy as names in their dynamics, a scene Pup seems to be involved in considering the aforementioned rope images. WattsTheSafeword (a kink education channel) is a really good example of the Puppy/Pup title in action, Amp gets called Puppy in every bloody video and that man is very clearly past his 20s.

These are not solid indicators of age the way Wizard wants to pretend.

Circling back to the supposed "CSEM defending ask," however... Funny thing.

Wizard wouldn't post it.

I sent that ask, as well, the one asking to see the supposed "CSEM defending ask" Wizard lost their shit over. The one I know isn't defending CSEM. I genuinely wanted to see if they'd be transparent and just post the damned thing, they don't. They make up a random quote and just act like that's evidence.

It isn't. You do not get to boldly declare "oh, we had a pedophile in our inbox, lol" and then just make things up when asked to back that statement up.

The TL:DR - Wizard misread a post, was informed they misread it, doubled down and threw out pedophilia allegations, then refused to back them up when prompted.

The tantrum then continued with Wizard claiming that they were getting paragraphs upon paragraphs in their ask box from Proshippers, throwing a tantrum over that as well despite... Not actually showing the asks.

It's also worth noting, the asks they whine about were very likely anon. They claim to turn anon off for a night, and then gloat about an empty inbox. So there isn't even any proof they actually had Proshippers in their ask box. We don't even have proof that Wizard received any asks, let alone from Proshippers. Anyone can send an Anon. Again, we don't even get to see the anons Wizard mentions.

I'm genuinely convinced the Pupwhore thing was just a way to smear Proshippers, because genuinely, there is no connection there. Wizard even says that Pupwhore followed them. That's an indication of the opposite, that Pup might be an anti instead. There's no evidence that Pup is a minor honestly with the fact he actually bothered to put "minors DNI" on his blog and mark it appropriately I'm really certain this isn't a child. I see adults neglect to do that. Wizard genuinely looks like they found an easy target and ran with it... Which is gross.

As of finishing this, Wizard has removed the post about Pupwhore. No apology or retraction has been issued, the misrepresentation of my ask remains posted. I just checked because I wanted to grab a scrolling screencap instead of multiple regular ones, but the post is gone. So, isn't that interesting.

I'll be blunt that I might take this up to Pupwhore directly if that blog is even still active. There were very few posts on it to begin with. Regardless, I made a claim, here are my screencaps to back it up.

I'd @ Wizard and demand an explanation, but it's late and if I do that, it's not going to be in a post with another person @'ed. I'm not going to put someone in the crossfire.

[chuuyasdog]

Anti ship is the right wing-ification of fandom and i refuse to sit quietly and let that happen

[things-antis-say]

literally today an anti tried to cite an article that claimed ALL pornography was a gateway to csem

they aren't even trying to hide it anymore

[toxic-blogman]

#the venn diagram of antis and pearl clutching evangelical christians is a circle