Eccedentesiast
(n.) Someone who hides pain behind a smile
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Eccedentesiast
(n.) Someone who hides pain behind a smile
11x02 | Form and Void
I can’t believe we’re never going to have this again. {12.07}
who’s making me coffee?
okay but the real truth is that lacy pink bra is dean’s
—Dean, You just upset your brother so much he had to leave the room.
—Dean, You just made your brother so mad that he had to strangle you.
—Dean, You just bossed your brother so much that he had to choose a demon over you.
—Dean, You just pressured your brother so much that he had to stop his suicide mission.
This is part of an ongoing pattern, a message. You wanna here what the message is? Lemme spell it out for you.
Dean, Your brother is never responsible, he is never at fault. You make him do these things, you trigger him by your actions, words, and thoughts, you are responsible for his actions, you are at fault. You have to change, accommodate and understand. Always and forever.
13x04 | The Big Empty
Sorry, Andrew Dabb, you can’t make us forget Crowley that easily!
The problem with a discussion of Dean, and how and why and when he is being paralleled to John, in regards to Jack, is that you need to accept that enough of an inherent parallel can even exist in the first place. And I don’t accept that it can because Dean didn’t choose to be Jack’s father, whereas John chose to be Dean’s, so the whole idea of a parallel between John and Dean, where Jack is concerned, is flawed to begin with.
Exactly. Sam’s argument was that Dean needed to act a certain way -aka Sam’s way- to be a “good” father, not emulate John, the “bad” father. Except that Dean had already said, in no uncertain terms, that he was not going to function as Jack’s parent. Dean would put up with Jack, keep an eye on him, make sure he didn’t hurt anyone but that’s it. No emotional bonding; it was a purely practical arrangement on Dean’s end. I don’t think Dean could have made it any clearer - it’s just that Sam refused to listen.
Honestly if anything Sam is behaving more like John, forcing a parental role on Dean that he never asked for and isn’t prepared for.
13x04 “The Big Empty” In which two things aren’t remotely comparable at all (if you ask me)
Fair warning ahead, there will be Sam criticism in the following. Though tbh I am not so much annoyed by Sam as such, but how he has been written for a while in relation to these recurring topics.
I’m not going to make myself any friends in saying this, but WTH?! I won’t even open the can of worms relating to Dean mentioning not wanting to be “Jack’s mother” and how all of that harkens back to Dean having been “mother, father and brother” for Sam, which Sam sometimes seems to forget (seriously, I’m too tired for all the arguments relating to that aspect - maybe tomorrow), but will instead just focus on how friggin appalled I am by Sam (and not for the first time) putting Dean down for not having been able to rebel against his father (I am critizing the writing here tbh, because the writing has made Sam look and be very unsympathetic for seasons now and partially that is due to the writers apparently being unable to have Sam form a meaningful relationship with someone who is not in some proximity someone Sam sees himself in - that sadly makes the character running in circles and just around himself) the way he himself could (newsflash, Sam, you were only able to form a healthier way of standing your ground and developing more freely, because Dean shielded you, Dean didn’t have anyone to shield him from your father). Nevermind that Sam is comparing apples and oranges here imo. Dean may not show any warmth for Jack (but at least he’s honest - that doesn’t excuse some of the harsh words of course, but it’s better than pretending to care when you don’t), but handing him a shovel is hardly comparable to the treatment that Dean experienced from their dad.
Dean is neither using emotional blackmail here nor is he manipulating Jack, two things Dean had to suffer from (among a long list of other things) by the parenting of his father. Furthermore, the question begs to be asked if Jack is needs “getting through”. To me he seems like a perfecty fine kid so far, that doesn’t need “getting through” (it’s quite telling how much Sam projects himself into Jack here and expects him to be just like himself), but understanding and time to develop. Sure, Dean is giving him a hard time, but he gains Dean’s trust in an “organic fashion” for lack of a better word and you can see how Jack felt about the genuine compliment at the end of the episode.
I think at this point Sam doesn’t have an excuse for his blindness when it comes to how Dean suffered as a child. I can understand he wouldn’t see things Dean hid from him (to protect him) but Sam’s a grown man now, he should know better.
Esp when there have been so many times on the show when Sam HAS now seen or at least heard about what happened to Dean, it’s been happening since Season. It’s 13 years and Sam STILL thinks of Dean as “daddy’s good little soldier” instead of the abused and neglected child he was?
Dean Winchester + I’m sorry (1 of 2) for @squirrelsan
2.04, 3.06, 3.16, 4.04, 4.22, 5.05, 5.07, 6.20, 9.10, 11.13, 12.03
I could just leave it there but I also want to file this under: Dean Winchester + Emotional Intelligence, because Dean understands why the other person is upset and addresses it. People who are emotionally unintelligent generally ignore that part. The second is Dean Winchester + Misconceptions because I’ve heard it said more than once that Dean has difficulty apologizing. It’s prevalent in fanfiction too. And you know what’s really baffling about that? Dean offers up apologies more than anyone else. Often when he doesn’t actually need to apologize (or he’s not the only one in the wrong). Some of the above apply too, but here’s a few more:
1.18, 2.22, 5.04, 7.14, 11.13
For the people who think it is ‘apocalyptic’ that Dean apologises. Like what show are you watching?
13x04 “The Big Empty” Projection and Misplaced Blame
Alright, so this scene should have had by all means more emotional impact than it had for me personally - like I said before to me this episode made a beeline back to S12 and everything I disliked about that entire season. Here we have all of that expressed in a nutshell. And it is kind of frustrating, because this “family therapy”-talk thing could have been a great scene. But here are my issues with these scenes.
First and foremost, of course we see Dean showing not the faintest bit of interest in seeing Mia and has his walls up. That said, despite his clear “get off my back”-attitude, he is honest here. Yes, he is using harsh words, dark irony and the drinking to keep people at arms length, but ultimately Dean isn’t pretending here (he knows himself perfectly well that his “sympatico”-line and how Jack throws it back isn’t meant to be taken seriously) and yes, he may use his anger as a shield in some proximity, but that is also due to how he is pressured into a corner by Sam projecting his own issues and struggles onto Dean.
And this is where I really have my issues with these scenes, because
a) Where and when please did we see Mary care at all about Dean? All throughout the entirety of S12 we saw Dean reach out to their mother and being ignored and that going right until the season finale where she just showed any kind of slim interest in her older son when he started talking about his younger brother. Plus, Sam was the one to work with Mary (behind Dean’s back as well). So sorry, show but this entire thing is just bs from an objective outside perspective, which of course Sam doesn’t have, so I get his reaction. It’s not the problem that he says these things and how he perceives them, but how the narrative later implies that he is in the right for what he thinks when what we know is the utter opposite. The lack of correction here is what bugs me, but I’ll talk about this more in a little while.
b) Sam placing blame and being jealous of Dean and attacking Dean, because he supposedly is withholding a relationship he could have had with his mother is just all kinds of wrong. Especially because he knows damn well Dean will take that blame and treat it as is he truly is to blame, which he isn’t.
c) I am not excusing Dean exploding into Sam’s face the way he did here, but I can understand why it happened. Thing is, like all of S12, the narrative and with that the writers make a point about how Dean’s reaction is wrong, when by all signs and means it isn’t. It is a natural reaction. This has been my main issue (aside from lack of emotions - which were lacking in this episode as well where they should have been front and center) with S12: the way the narrative treated Dean and now here we are again. Dean is being walked all over, the one who is singled out as “the problem”. I mean, we have the narrative strengthening twice how supposedly what Sam throws at Dean’s head here is somehow right (when it isn’t by a long shot but whatever) and that Dean is “wrong” and in need of “correction”. First, we have Mia tell Dean that he is to blame for Sam leaving the room and conveniently leaving out the huge chunk of hurtful stuff Sam threw at Dean there as well and then at the end of the episode we have Dean apologizing to Sam (once more proving his emotional maturity) and Sam not even considering to maybe apologize as well, which by all means he should as well. This is how the show renders Dean wrong and how it has been doing it all throughout S12 when none of the things Dean was subjected to were corrected in the end, so yeah, this episode had raw potential, but all it did for me was show me that Dabb doesn’t give a flying fuck about consisent writing and even more so Dean as a character. Sighs…
Sorry for the negativity, but I am frustrated. But it’s my own fault, I shouldn’t have trusted the first three episodes to actually be emblematic for the entire season…
“s02e02 im so mad that Dean had to apologise to Sam here for cracking at Sam after he pushed him but Dean ALSO had to apologise yesterday for pushing Sam so much it was his turn to crack where is Sams apology I agree with everything Dean said in both these scenes even if he was pretty harsh when he said them s13e04″
What angers me is that Sam (and the narrative) seem to forget that Dean responds poorly because his emotional boundaries are ignored. In an earlier scene Sam started yelling at Dean for wanting to be alone, claiming he was avoiding the issue of their dad’s death. Dean was working on his car. Grieving in his own way. But Sam refuses to let it go, until Dean clearly asks what Sam wants from him, (what are you asking for, Sam?). Sam says he wants a “reaction” (vague. Seems like he wants a particular reaction or to talk about it). Dean indicates that he can’t do what Sam wants right now, b/c he doesn’t know how else to react.
In this scene, Sam will again push Dean despite Dean literally asking him to back off. Stop. Leave me alone. Sam ignores this and continues to try to police Dean’s emotions. When Dean inevitably snaps back at him, then Dean is painted as the bad guy and must apologize (it’s even more interesting that later, when Dean finally caves and “confesses” his feelings, Sam offers no support, comfort or encouragement. But that’s a topic for another day). But as you say, Sam is not required to apologize for his behavior. Worse, he’s not even required to recognize it. As a result, Sam never learns to respect Dean’s boundaries. That Dean has a right to grieve in his own way and talk about it in his own time. That demanding that from anyone is hurtful and NOT okay. That back off means back off.
This is why Sam is still doing this 11 years later.
But could you stop and imagine for a moment, someone screaming at you because you aren’t grieving “the right way.” Someone hounding at a wound that’s already fresh and bleeding, refusing to take “I can’t right now” or “stop” for an answer, a mere week after you’ve lost someone close to you. Exactly how composed and polite and nice would you be? And that’s without all the extra survivor’s guilt, formative psychological abuse, and ongoing burdens Dean is dealing with here. Anyone is going to crack under all of that.
You know when a fic is tagged ’ Dean is bad at feelings’ the person writing it probably doesn’t watch the show and if they do they are not paying any attention to Dean.
the best part for me, in that scene between Dean and Mary, was Dean asking Mary, begging Mary to ‘see him’. to turn around and SEE Dean. the way he repeated it was heartbreaking. that need for someone, for one of his parents to please, look him and see not the hunter, not the bigbrother/substitute parent, not the little child Mary misses and remembers, not the role he has in the family, in the universe– just look at him and see, simply, Dean.
2 in 1
Why is it so damn hard for people to understand that if somebody repeatedly and numerously proves that they can’t be trusted, it’s only natural, understandable and goddamn reasonable for you to be wary of putting your trust in them again?
Except a part of me thinks the concept of “person A being repeatedly untrustworthy and person B therefore hesitating to trust person A again” is actually perfectly acceptable, until you say that person A is Sam (or Cas) and person B is Dean. Or maybe just that person B is Dean.