Valrev blog

The blog that turns product ideas into businesses!

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How to Sell Extraordinary Products at a Great Price– Part 2

In Part 1, we covered some of the major considerations that go into accurately determining a product cost.  Part 2 is going to be much shorter.

One of the best ways to sell extraordinary products at a great price is to buy from the factory making the product and sell directly to the end consumer.  On the surface, this is quite obvious, but this isn’t how business is usually done.

Typically, a company will sell a product to a retailer at a wholesale price, which the retailer than marks up and sells to the end consumer.  In many cases, the company uses an agent in China, who adds their margin in also. 

When all is said and done, a product that cost $5.00 is selling for $30.00 – everyone needs to make money.  What’s happening today is that retailers are squeezing everyone’s margins, as costs continue to rise to produce overseas.

What if you sold that product, direct to consumer, for $10?  And sold 100,000 units because people got so excited about the value that they told their friends?  This is happening more and more.

I’m not against traditional retail by any means – in fact, shelf space is your best friend.  My point is that there are other (more profitable) ways to get your company started that most entrepreneurs do not consider.

For instance, how many entrepreneurs think of an idea, and say “I want to take this to Walmart!”  Good luck.  And most get discouraged and quit once they learn how challenging this can be. 

Instead, why not keep your margins high and sell direct to consumer.  Then, once you have sales and a track record, retailers will call you.  You have money in the bank, you have a following of happy customers and you have confidence (and proof) that people really do want your product – that is how you start a successful business.

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How to Sell Extraordinary Products at a Great Price– Part 1

Many leading business books say that price does not matter – it’s all about value.  I don’t buy it.

I think price is extremely important.  I think one of the best ways to gain exposure in the market place is to give an extraordinary experience at a great price.  Notice I didn’t say sell junk at a great price – I said extraordinary.

Our challenge as entrepreneurs is to provide extraordinary experiences – that is your idea and your plan for execution.  And that’s your job to figure that out.  But the best way to keep the price of your extraordinary experience low is to keep your costs low.  That is what we will talk about here.

The preferred model for a USA company is to import product directly from the factory you are working with overseas.  For instance, ship the goods directly from a factory in China to your distribution center (or home) in the USA.  If you ship the goods within China, you will have to pay what’s called VAT (value added tax), and we want to avoid all unnecessary costs. 

When costing, you need to keep in mind the following costs:

1.     1. Product cost

2.     2. Packaging cost

3.     3. Freight

4.     4. Taxes and duties

5.     5. Brokerage fees (recommended)

Conducting this costing exercise accurately is vital because it helps you determine your selling price.  I’m not saying you should set your price directly based on the cost, but you need to know your costs to know how much money you will be making.

This can get complicated and varies from case to case, and you probably want to enroll the help of someone who has done this before – but you can use this as a guide to make sure you aren’t missing anything major. 

A few key points to keep in mind:

1.     Every product type has a different duty for importing, which can be found on the government HTS website.

2.     You should use a broker to help you iron out all duties and logistics related to shipping your product into the USA.  Some brokers can help with distribution and warehousing too.  As a general rule of thumb, use 2% of product cost for brokerage fees.

3.     The cost of freight is based on either space or weight.  Shipping by boat is the cheapest option, and your cost is usually based on space.  A boat from China to USA can take anywhere from 3-4 weeks, and don’t forget train and trucking which can add more time.  Shipping by air is much faster, and the cost based on space or weight, depending on the circumstance.  Unlike shipping by boat, shipping by air can be as fast at 5-7 days, 2-3 days or even next day – the more urgent, the more expensive.

As you can see, a lot of factors go into determining the cost of your product.  And if you are smart about it, you can lower your per unit cost, allowing you to keep your selling price low and still make a lot of money.

Some people will argue that higher priced products have a higher perceived value.  True in some cases, but I think the better path is to provide an extraordinary product at a great price.  And that is what we do with all our entrepreneurs on Valrev.

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Our Goal at Valrev (Seeking Feedback)

Our goal at Valrev is to make it possible for anyone to launch a great product idea and live the American Dream.  Lots of people I meet have great ideas, but don't know where to turn next.  As a result, they never take action, and the idea will die in their head or be taken to market by someone else.

We want to create a system that any idea can plug into and become successful.  When you have a new product idea, you shouldn't be asking yourself:

- Who is going to design this?

- How am I going to make sure that the design functions?

- Who is going to manufacture this?

- How am I going to generate sales?

- How do I make sure people actually want this product?

- Where am I going to find investors to fund my business?

You should just go to Valrev.

We have the engineers, designers, sourcing, manufacturing, and branding ... plus, we get you sales on your product idea.  And you don't need to break the bank.  And you don't need to quit your job.  And you don't need previous business experience (though it helps being familiar with business in general, which lots of people are).  It's something anyone who is serious about an idea can do.

There are lots of companies in the market today that promise to take your invention idea to market.  Quite frankly, I think I lot of them are not as honest as they should be.  Inventors spend tens of thousands of dollars and, in return, receive a stack of "market analysis" papers and a notification that no one was interested in buying, making or licensing the product.  If you don't believe me, do a quick Google search and you will see how many people feel they've been ripped off.

At Valrev, the goal is to remove all the smoke and mirrors, and give people what they need (and only what they need) to get their product ideas live, so we can see if people will open their wallets and pay.  You can do all the market research in the world, but it's all just a hypothesis until the product goes live.

Market research is a good idea when you are starting a business the traditional way.  Hiring your staff, investing in manufacturing molds and building an initial inventory, hiring a PR company or buying advertisements.  This can get REALLY expensive fast, and the market research will certainly teach you something.

But what is new and groundbreaking about Valrev is that you don't need to take all those risky steps I listed above.  And you can test if your idea is a winner with little money out of pocket -- in fact. less money than the majority of marketing firms would charge you for the research!

I am grateful for all the people I've spoken with over the past month or so, giving feedback and telling me about their experiences.  We are here to build a company that let's anyone build a company who has a great idea and is willing to put in the hard work.

We don't care about how much money you have (though if you are serious about starting a business, you will need some), how much experience you have, who you are, what degrees you have.  Great ideas are powerful, and through Valrev, we will watch great ideas turn into inspiring businesses run by people like you.

We will even consider partnering with you if you cannot afford to pay for Valrev, in return for a piece of the action.  But the idea must be truly great.

And all the ideas must be great.  That is why we have an application process.  Initially, we were considering opening the gates to any and all ideas, and let the market "validate" all ideas with "revenue".  The problem is that if the ideas are not good, people will feel less inclined to visit Valrev, thus reducing the number of pre-orders and hurting all parties involved.

If you are an inventor or entrepreneur with a great product idea, we welcome your feedback and thoughts.  In fact, if you like Valrev, but there is something that is stopping you from applying, send me (Michael) an email ([email protected]) and let's discuss it.  The goal is to allow anyone and everyone who wants to live the American Dream to live it.  If something is standing in the way, let's discuss it, and find a way around it.

And truth is, perhaps 100 other people feel the same way, and we need to change our policy here at Valrev.  We are in the early stages as a company, which means a certain need to be flexible while staying true to our vision.  We've already made a lot of tweaks, the majority came when we first observed people using Valrev.com for the first time.

With the way things are moving in business and tech, I see it becoming easier and less expensive to start companies, which means ideas need to be better than ever.  More options means more clutter, and only the best product ideas will get the attention and will be worthy of conversation between friends.

If you have a great product idea, email [email protected] and let's discuss how you can inspire millions of people as you build your company through Valrev.

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Ship!

Learn to be comfortable shipping (ie. launching) stuff.

Before it's "perfect".

Before it's "ready".

Before it's "great".

Ship it.  Learn the facts.  Make changes.  Make progress.

The process does not begin until you start shipping stuff. 

Valrev is live today.  Let's start the process.

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People Who Say Ideas Are Worth Nothing (or $1) Are Wrong!

We all get the point.  A great idea without execution results in nothing.

  100/100 idea x 0/100 action = 0/100 results.

  You multiply anything by zero, the result is zero -- yes, we all get the point.

  But the generalization that ideas are worth nothing -- or, according to a poster hanging in my father's office growing up, ideas are worth $1 -- is absolutely false and ridiculous.  If ideas are worth nothing, than what is worth something?

  Ideas are everything, and in 2013, great ideas are source of wealth.

  Consider this:

  - If you want to get paid for KNOWLEDGE: Knowledge is expected to be free.  Someone smarter than you has shared what you want to get paid for -- for free.  You and I have all the knowledge of the universe, conveniently stored in our pockets, 24/7. 

  - If you want to get paid for LABOR: Labor is progressively becoming cheaper and cheaper, and businesses are outsourcing more and more of their responsibilities every year.  People are losing their jobs every day because someone is willing to do the same task for less money.

  What will last the test of time -- forever and ever and ever?

  IDEAS.  Ideas cannot be purchased, and cannot be generated through an assembly line -- great ideas are only generated through experience.  Each person walks his or her own path, and from that walk thinks of ways to make stuff better.

  And the best part of ideas -- anyone can have them.  The best ideas are not reserved for Harvard MBAs or neuroscientists.  Everyone is equally capable of doing up with a great idea once they develop a basic understanding of what makes an idea great (which we can talk about later).

  Ideas certainly aren't worth nothing -- they are the only thing worth anything of lasting value.  Just about everything else can be done by someone smarter than you, for less.

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The Roller Coaster of Launching a Product

When you are launching a new product, you can expect to feel something like this:

(Borrowing this image from Seth Godin's blog post today, read it here: http://bit.ly/12ATFxR),

It's a roller coaster of ups and downs.  When you are up, stay humble, because the going will get tough.  When you are down, stay hopeful, because things will get better.  And if you can persist the test of time, you have a chance of being great.

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Why did we make Valrev?

People have great ideas.  

Some better than others, but there are lots of ideas in our minds that have the potential to be great.  We all know people with great ideas.  Sometimes, you will hear an idea so great you wish you thought of it.  I know this happens to me all the time.  Usually the simpler the better.  

A big part of the fun in life is found in thinking of new ideas.

Once that stroke of genius strikes, we begin to question if the idea is great or if we are crazy.  

So, we begin asking around.  We can ask our friends, and see what they think.  We can ask our family, and listen to them too.  Or, we can sit in deep meditation, thinking and thinking and thinking about whether or not your idea will sell.

But if we are really honest with ourselves, we will realize that none of that really matters.  

In fact, it's a big waste of time.  Individual opinions are usually misleading.  Nothing really matters until we take the action necessary to see if people will buy your product.

An idea becomes great when it sells.  

Sales is the ultimate sign that other people believe your idea is great.  The act of opening your wallet affirms an idea is a great one.  At least in business.

With this in mind, it only makes sense that we -- the logical citizens of Earth -- would test to see if every "great" idea will sell.  How else will you know if its great?  Yet this is the opposite of what the great majority of people do.

Few people will ever learn if their "great" idea was great, because we throw in the towel before we begin.

From my experience, personal and watching others, here are the 3 barriers that stop people from trying:

- We don't try because we don't have enough MONEY - We don't try because we don't have enough TIME - We don't try because we don't have the "KNOW-HOW"

Have you ever thought of how much we've collectively lost in terms of progress when we all throw in the towel without even trying?  

Never mind the profits we leave on the table for ourselves when we don't even try.

We made Valrev to eliminate (or greatly reduce) each of these 3 barriers:

- We don't try because we don't have enough MONEY - We don't try because we don't have enough TIME - We don't try because we don't have the "KNOW-HOW"

If money, time and know-how were no longer a factor, what would you do next time you came up with a great idea?  

It's worth noting that the fourth barrier is you, and what you believe is possible.  If you don't believe you can, all the money, time and know-how in the world won't help.

It's a personal mission to make launching a great idea something that anyone can do, regardless of who they are, where they come from, or what they believe about themselves.

Because great ideas come from everyone.

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Nice new invention. Does it solve a problem?

The pace of innovation and new inventions is more rapid than ever before, and that is only going to further accelerate as time passes.  More people are able to make more stuff for less money.  Hardware is the new software - anyone with some time and money on their hands can build something and promote it to the world for less than ever.

On the surface, this seems like a good thing.  More inventions, more innovation, more companies, more jobs, strong economy.  That's the story we want to believe, but is it really what's happening.

No.

Instead, we see more and more entrepreneurs jumping on trends, and working on products or software that do not solve any real problems.

The cost of launching products is going down, but there are certain laws of business that will never change.  A business becomes successful by making a product that people want, not by jumping on the latest trend.  The first place to look at this happening are tech companies.

Entrepreneur everywhere: Make products that people want, rather than aimlessly jumping on trends.  The fact that you are a "mobile" company does not give you a high chance of success.  

If you can make something people want and hop on a trend, you will have found yourself a rocket ship.  But the most important part is the want.  And the easiest way to create the want is to solve a problem.

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Got a new idea? Keep your head down and execute.

Your "new" idea probably isn't new.

If it's any good, someone else is probably working on it too.

Your goal is not to ask all your friends and family what they think, or ask advisors what to do next.  Your goal is not to scour the web for similar products or waste time on Facebook seeing what your friends are doing.

Your goal is to execute.  To launch.  To start generating sales as quickly as possible.

You don't need to be perfect.  Heck, you have no shot of being perfect.  But you do have a shot of missing the boat entirely if you drag your feet.

Yes, get feedback.  Yes, get advice from people smarter than you.  But let that phase last a week (or two at max).  Then, execute.  Get off the ground.  Begin the journey.

Then, go ask everyone and their mom what they think, and how you can get better.  

Contrary to popular belief, products do not successfully launch with a "big bang" anymore.  Companies don't go from 0 to $10,000,000 by running a big superbowl ad.  Get 10 people who love what you do, and those 10 will tell 10 more, and so on.  That's how basis for how marketing works today.

Go live fast.  If you don't, someone else will.

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Launching an idea -- Who Should You Listen To?

Every company is founded on an "ah-ha" moment, a single moment in time where the entrepreneur believes they have come up with an idea that people will buy.  And then, through a series of brainstorming sessions, the entrepreneur will determine whether or not they believe the idea is viable.

A lot of the time, the answer is no.  And the persistant, strong-minded entrepreneur moves on.

But every once in a while, you come across an idea, go through your pondering, and come out the other side thinking "Wow, this actually might work."  And if you're like me, you get really, really excited.

Then, the doubt creeps in, or you just want to see if you've gone crazy.  So you begin asking people around you the infamous question:

"What do you think?"

It's not a bad thing to ask other people what they think - but realize, it's just an opinion of one person.

No single opinion should exclusively tell you whether or not to pursue your idea.  This is a mistake lots of first time entrepreneurs make, mainly, because they are lacking confidence and have the fear of failure.

With that being said, let me outline why these opinions are often worthless.

You ask your family

Your family loves you (I hope), and that love will backfire.  No matter what your idea is, they probably won't have the guts to tell you if its bad.  Your passion, the look in your eye, the exuberance -- they'd feel horrible bursting your bubble.  It's hard to get an honest opinion here, making these discussions worthless.

You ask your friends.

A good friend who tells you the truth is something to cherish.  But lots of acquaintance-type friends will tell you that your idea is bad, so that you don't become too successful.  They like you just the way you are.  I partially feel bad writing this, but I've learned this is the way some people are.  It's hard to get an honest opinion here, making these discussions worthless.  

You launch and ask the market, and listen to their credit cards.

Alas, the solution we are all looking for.  We aren't looking for opinions.  We aren't looking for praise.  We aren't looking for a pat on the back.  We are looking to validate our ideas, and the only way to validate our ideas is through revenue.  People opening up their wallets, and parting with their hard earned money.  That is the ultimate proof that your idea is a winner, and the only opinion you need.

The goal, of course, is to get to this point as quickly as possible, spending the least amount of money as possible.

The more seasoned you become as an entrepreneur, the easier this becomes.  You learn very quickly that opinions are misleading, and that customers are the ultimate fortune teller of your startups success.

I am not suggesting to start your idea in isolation, or being so stubborn that you do not listen to other people.

I am simply suggesting to take other peoples opinions with a grain of salt, knowing that they may not actually reflect the truth of how they feel.

Opinions and feelings are one thing.  Customers and revenue are another.  Aim for the latter.

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Great Ideas Without Action Is Like Intelligence Without Courage

Both are useless.  And are closely related.

The greatest idea (often through the gift of intelligence) becomes useless without courage of action.

What you know is becoming less and less important.  I have the collective intelligence of millions of people in my pocket everywhere I go.

What matters is having the courage to act, to take calculate risks, without doubting yourself over and over again.  This is one skill that will never go out of style.

If we want to liken intelligence to success, it's time we redefine what we consider intelligence.  It's less about acquiring facts and knowledge -- and more about having the courage to act, and try things that no one has tried before.

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How to Start a Business in 2013 -- 1 Piece of Advice

More and more people are starting businesses, which is a great thing.  But it's also a scary thing if you do not know what you are doing.

There is no recipe that will guarantee an idea to be successful.  The greatest ideas sometimes fizzle out, and the "OK" ideas sometimes go to the moon.  It's really hard to tell which ideas are the winners and losers, but that doesn't mean there aren't shortcuts to success or better ways of launching your product.

The best piece of advice I ever got that I'd suggest everyone follow:

Only spend money that is absolutely necessary to generate revenue.  And spend as little as possible to get there.

For every Facebook that grows to $1 billion without focusing on revenue, there one million companies that fail because they waste all their money before they focus exclusively on revenue.

- Don't rent a fancy office.

- Don't hire people full time.

- Don't raise a lot of money from investors.

- Don't make cool t-shirts and other startup swag.

- Don't worry about company culture.

Until you generate revenue.

Of course there are exceptions.  But don't count on being an exception (that is the nature of the word).  

Build your business one sale at a time.  Take really, really good care of your customers. Then, you will find yourself running a company with a fancy office (if you want that), a big team (if you need that), investors knocking on your door (if you need cash), cool t-shirts (and much more), and a company culture that is supported by a real business that generates cash flow.

That's the type of business I want to run.

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Ideas for a Product - How to "Come Up" With a Great Idea

So, how do you think of a great business idea?  It's a question that every entrepreneurs gets asked all the time.  Human beings are naturally creative and want to make things - but the hardest part for some is figuring out what to make.

It's first worth stating that the question "How do you come up with a great idea?" is, in itself, flawed.  The best business ideas do not come from a bunch of MBAs at HBS brainstorming in a room full of whiteboards -- well, at least that's not the first step.  So the concept of "coming up" with an idea will probably result in an idea - just not a good one.

Your chances of coming up with a great idea are much higher if the product solves a problem that you yourself experience and understand.  So, rather than trying to come up with a great idea, consider right now:

- What things in my daily life give me the most trouble?

- What things annoy me?

- Am I totally weird in being troubled / annoyed, or are chances good other people feel the same way?

Once you have a big enough problem, then think of ideas to solve that problem.  That is how to come up with a great idea.  I'd also like to reiterate that the problem should be one that you absolutely understand personally.  Want to launch a product that you know "everyone will want", but "I'm just not in the target market!"?  Count me out -- been there, done that.

OK, I tried to think of what annoys me, and I came up with nothing.  What do I do now?

Keep thinking ... especially if you only spent 15 seconds thinking of a problem.  That is something to brainstorm and whiteboard.  Come up with a problem that is important enough to you to give it your all.  Or an idea that is "cool" enough to keep your interest, even through the hard times.  If you try that and still cannot think of this after a couple of days ... 

Go to the mall.  

Visit the stores you usually shop at (or any store really, I just say that because you are more likely to think of a product you'd actually use) and some simple investigating can give you a sense of what is selling and what is not.  Ask a store manager what the newest, hottest selling items are right now.  He / she will tell you.  From there, you may get inspiration to think of an idea that could sell.

But again, the challenge is that you are "coming up" with a great idea, rather than finding it via necessity.  So be extra careful and selective as to what ideas you bring to market.  And you are not simply taking hot ideas and cloning them - you are looking for new products that are already selling well, and seeing if you can put a spin on them that makes it unique and better.  

Most great products aren't revolutionary in what they do - rather, they make an existing product better, easier, faster, cheaper, etc.  So you can go do that too.

Summary:

1. Don't try to "come up" with an idea.  Think of a problem that you understand, and find a solution in a product.

2. If you must "come up" with an idea, go to the mall (a store you shop at ideally), and ask the manager what products are selling well.  From there, you can put your own unique spin to make it better in some way. 

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Steve Jobs and Failure

Most of us are too afraid to fail (and that is an entire topic on its own)

And we've all heard the quotes from Thomas Edison, Michael Jordan and (seemingly) every other successful person who preaches that failure is part of the path to success.  

I just came across an article that outlined Steve Jobs' failures as an entrepreneur.  And there is something different about the idea of Steve Jobs failing that makes this point even more clear.  I mean, this guy shaped a handful of the biggest, most lucrative industries ... period.  The thought of him failing is something I think few people think of.  I even just phoned some friends, and they agreed.

The lesson: Everyone successful fails.  Even Steve Jobs.  And the sooner you get over your fear of failure, the better off you are.  Now, go build something!

Here's the article:

http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/01/five_of_steve_jobss_biggest_mi.html 

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"What I'm going to do today might not work" -- Seth Godin at MIT

This is the mentality for success in the future.  Playing it "safe" is no longer safe.  What makes us successful is when we overcome the fear that says "stop, this might not work", and we move ahead anyways.  When we ship something and say "I made this" -- not ashamed, but instead confident.  (We are all too often shamed into compliance of this bigger "system".)

If it doesn't work, so what?  In 2013, it's easier to adjust then ever.  Overhead is minimal, so tweak your strategy and move on.  Go out on a limb.  Make a ruckus.  Of Picasso's 10,000 paintings, 50 were masterpieces -- the rest were failures.  Does his .5% success rate make him a failure?  I don't think so.

My take: Don't hold back.  Go for it 110%.  Seth showed a video of a cheetah running after its prey on the big screen - that is how to go for it 110%!  The cheetah is not thinking 'What if I trip?' or anything like that.  He's going for it 110%.  And if he misses, there will be another meal around the corner.

The same is true for all of us.

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Bringing a Product to Life - 2 Important Questions

Bringing a product idea / invention to life can be one of the most exciting experiences a person can have.  The combination of solving a problem that will help people, along with the possibility of tremendous financial gain make an awfully appealing combo. 

If you want to increase the odds of your success, you will need to make sure you have strong answers to the following 2 questions:

1. Is the product manufacture-able?

It's fairly simple to draw up a product idea.  But can what you draw up actually be manufactured?  Answering this question up front will save you a lot of time.  This is why its worth investing in someone who has a deep understanding of manufacturing and engineering to mockup your concept.

2. Is the product manufacture-able ... at the right price?

Sure, you can make it.  But can you make it at the right price?  Does your product require a manufacturing process that is outside the norm of products in your industry?

Answering those two questions is a good place to start.

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I'm begging you ... don't patent your idea on day 1!

It still amazes me how many people think the first step to launching a product and starting a business is filing a patent.  On one hand, its understandable -- protect your idea before someone else steals it.  On the other hand (the smarter, more seasoned hand), it's absolutely ridiculous and is a major source for failure of new products.

Look at some stats.  

- 3% of all patents filed ever go on to make any money.

- 95% of new products launched fail.

Not fun stats to look at for too long, and you can argue with the numbers a little bit, but the takeaway is that the odds are against you.  That the challenge is finding a product that people are willing to pay for, that solves a meaningful problem.  But when you do find that product, a great business is on the horizon.

So why am I begging you to not patent your idea on day 1?  

Because in the great majority of cases, the idea you patent on day 1 will quickly be proven unwanted, or will undergo massive reconstructive surgery before it becomes a winner.  Said differently, you just spent anywhere from $5,000 - $20,000 (depending on the lawyer and how much work you do personally) for something that is absolutely, positively worthless.

So, please, stop filing patents on day 1.  I don't care how good your idea is, don't do it.  And I'm not suggesting that protecting your idea isn't important.  In fact, I think it is.  Some people feel that your best path is to just go to market, and if someone rips you off, well, be happy because you probably made some money in the process.

I don't buy that as a smart strategy.

Instead, here is what you should do:

1. File a provisional patent application.  There are plenty of DIY books that will show you how to do this.  And you can always pass it off to your lawyer last minute to check it out.  Best part is, it will only cost you a couple hundred bucks, all said and done.  I'll do a post on PPAs sometime.  

2. The biggest pain of the whole thing, for me, was learning how to file the patents.  The forms, the sites, etc.  I put together an ebook to show you how to file provisional patents (I'll send it to you free for reading this blog) with screenshots.  I filed my last one in 5 minutes (the filing part).

3. OK, OK.  I'm not a lawyer.  In fact, I probably shouldn't be giving legal advice.  So go talk to your attorney, there are cases where you should file regular patent right off the bat, but in many cases, it's a terrible idea.  A great idea for your lawyer (sorry, it's the truth), but often times, not for you.

Find yourself a market, then invest.  There are plenty of better ways to spend $5,000 - $20,000 -- I promise you!