Hi, I'm Venus (she/her)! I'm one of the admins of @thinkin-bout-milgram but this is my one where I just kinda say what I want about whatever. Profile pic courtesy of @accirax (my sister)
Long ago, in a playlist page far, far away, the DRDT YT channel held a playlist containing 16 songs. Each of these songs were said to be connected to one of the characters in the series. This playlist has long since been deleted, existing now only in fanmade recreations like this one by venus-is-thinking. How seriously we're supposed to take it is obviously up in the air, given the deletion and all, but it's still a fun exercise to try and assign these songs to our favorite goobers! And today, we're going to go over this challenge, so I can give you my thoughts on who each song belongs to!
Of course, though, the exercise is fun until you realize how insanely difficult it is. There's a reason I've been sitting on this for literal years lmao. I tried my best, but... well, you'll see!
Spoilers up to DRDT CH2. CWs: Animal death, suicide, alcoholism, smoking, mention of WWII, betrayal.
Now, if you've been following me for a while, you know that I've already analyzed a playlist like this before, right? I didn't struggle for literal years putting together the Danganronpa One Shot playlist guesses, and I even managed to get like half of them right.
Well, there's two reasons for that. One is simply that I did the DROS one when DROS was starting CH3, which is technically a bit more context than we have for DRDT right now. Two is that the DROS playlist... made sense. This one doesn't.
What do I mean by that? Simply put, every song in the DROS playlist had not only plenty of lyrics, but also either a very specific message it conveyed, or a story it followed. There were exceptions, but they were far and few between, so you could assign most of them on lyrical analysis and then sort out the rest with some vague process of elimination.
There's three songs in the DRDT playlist that, even when put together, don't have any more than 7 lines of actual words. There's also one or two that are in Japanese and don't have easily accessible translations, not to mention the possibility of conflicting translations. There's several songs that have either a vague message or just very little imagery to go off of, which makes them hard to assign. All this and more makes the DRDT playlist a bit of a headache.
So! Instead of assigning only one character to each song right off the bat, I'm going to do something a little different. I'm first going to talk about every possibility I can see for each song, then only at the end try to arrange them in a way that makes sense. I feel like letting you see my entire thought process instead of just the end result is going to be the best way to communicate why exactly I reach the conclusions I do.
I'll start with the songs that I find are relatively easy to assign, then slowly make my way to the harder songs. The song number refers to their placement on the playlist, which I don't believe is particularly important, but I'll keep track of it regardless.
Though, before we start, huge shout-out to demodraws0606, gleamingtempest, googledetective, venus-is-thinking and accirax for making their own posts about this before me! There are definitely more out there, but they're the ones that helped me the most when reaching the conclusions I'll present here. Check out their posts in the links, they're very good!
They're calling it the most Rose coded song in history. Not only is it about the singer feeling detached from reality and the world, but it expresses the point through a bunch of drawing and animation allegories.
Abstraction's how I live my day to day
Sketchy lines upon an empty page
Hard to explain, and to express
Forever just a work in progress
Can't tell you how I feel when nothing seems real
It's all just cartoons in my head
And everything's unseen like the fastest inbetween
It's all just cartoons in my head
Rose is an artist, and she regularly has issues with memory and telling apart what's real and what isn't.
Rose [2-5]: My dreams are strange. My memories, my imaginations, my fears... They all mix into one until I can no longer tell what's real.
I mean, yeah. This is Rose's.
You might be wondering about the "Reaching" section thing. Basically, in case I run out of characters or songs, it's nice to write down any character that's even tangentially related to the song. Teruko has talked about herself and others in the context of "characters in a show" in a couple of occasions, which arguably fits the idea of "none of this is real, just cartoons in my head."
Teruko [2-1]: You all have the misfortune of being "characters" in a story where I'm the "protagonist." Because of that, you're all doomed.
Hehe I found a way to get yellow text back >:)
Again, this is an insane reach, don't take it too seriously. I really doubt Teruko genuinely doesn't think of this whole thing as real. The point is that if I'm absolutely forced to put Rose somewhere else, I have this to fall back on, even if it's silly.
Song #7 - Shun-ran (Spring Storm)
Prime Suspect: Arei
Reaching: David
Translation used linked here.
Shun-ran opens by telling us that the singer lives behind a facade.
I was covered in false images, just like God
In particular, they project an aggressive image, always looking for a chance to take out their anger on others.
I won’t pay attention to small fry
For one such as I, affecting composure, to speak
Is because I become angry easily, watching hawk-like for my chance
They "summon a spring storm" (presumably lash out in some kind of way), but they're upset at their violence.
I summoned the spring storm and then cried. My heart was wounded.
They feel the need to continue their aggressive act, even though their anger has long faded. They've forgotten how to live without that facade.
My rage and other such things vanished long ago
but though I perform my act, I’m ignorant.
However, the song has a happy ending. The singer is able to destroy their facade and live in peace.
I pledged a ceasefire. My personality peeled off and fell
because I have the courage to accept disappointment.
And just in case this wasn't already reading like the most Arei coded song in history to you, the song ends on the note that the reason the singer was able to shed their false images was because they met someone they considered an idiot for going against their worldview, but who eventually helps them "wake up."
I called you an idiot. Like smoke, you made me uncomfortable. I looked at you and woke up.
Arei [2-5]: I can't stand that naivety of hers! I can't stand how easy it is for [Eden] to make friends!
Someone like her clearly has never had to fight so that others wouldn't look down on her!
It's not fair! It's not fair that she can be kind and trusting and naive and no one takes advantage of that!
That's not how it works! That's never been how it works for me!
Do I need to actually explain this? We've all watched DRDT, I take it. Arei put up a mean and insulting front so she wouldn't get hurt, but eventually grows past that facade and becomes nicer thanks to Eden. If I didn't know better I'd think Arei was deadass written after the song. Hell, her sisters are called Fuyuko and Natsuko, which respectively mean "winter child" and "summer child", so her getting the "spring storm" makes sense even from that angle.
David's here because of the constant mentions of facades and because technically you could replace Eden with Xander and the song doesn't completely fall apart. But David's pre-killing game persona is not that of an aggressive spring storm, so the whole "ceasefire" thing doesn't work for him as well as it does for Arei. Thus, our favorite Bowler gets this song!
Song #11 - Hi-Fi Evolution Theory*
Prime Suspect: Veronika
Reaching: Xander, J, Future Context
*Song name translated from Japanese, exact wording may vary
This is one of the songs that doesn't have a translation I could easily find. Thankfully, even with just Google Translate to guide us, it's not that hard to see who gets this one. This song shows the singer talking to someone, asking if they're tired of living the way they are. They consider the way of living of that someone to be kind of pitiful and awful, and essentially tells them that they don't plan on living like them (at least that's how I interpret "if you want to die, do it alone").
Hey hey, are you getting tired of it?
Hey hey, why don't you stop always hanging your head?
Your brain is rusty
Doing tasks you don't want to do
"This is a happy way of life"
I don't know anything else, if you want to die, do it alone
Instead, the singer proposes moving past society's expectations and living according to their own desires. This is the "evolution theory" of the title, as the singer believes those who live according to their whims to be stronger than the rest.
It seems this world is dominated by the weak
Bending reason and raising their voices
"That's just how your life is"
I don't know about the others; expectations are futile.
At this rate, we'll drown
A yearning that won't fade, driving us mad
Unable to spread our wings now
Do we look like clowns?
History changes like that
Let's keep evolving from here
The Earth too
A high-fidelity, easygoing view of life
But it's fine to have fun, right?
I have no clue what "high-fidelity" is meant to mean in this context, but it's there.
It's not hard to see how this fits Veronika. Although at the start of the series she's a bit more self-conscious, she slowly shifts into a character who truly has no regard for people's expectations of "normal" behavior. She regularly acts purely on whims, and generally has a pretty easygoing view of life. Thus, this is most likely Vero's song.
Xander and J are mentioned because they, too, go against society's expectations, but I wouldn't call either of them particularly easygoing. The focus on "fun" in the song fits Vero far more than those two.
What you might be wondering about is the "Future Context" thing I put in the "Reaching" department. Basically, I believe there are many songs here that may refer to events later in the series, which would make it impossible for us to correctly assign the song at this time. This is what "Future Context" as a possible suspect means, "there is a chance we can't properly assign it right now." Think of Shun-ran, and how there would've basically been no way to give that to Arei during CH1 unless you hard read her character arc. Technically this could apply to all the songs, but there's some where this is a bit more likely than in others.
In the case of Hi-fi Evolution Theory, because the song is so Veronika-coded, it is also inherently mastermind-coded. There is a non-zero chance that (provided they're different characters) this song is meant to go to the mastermind, who may also be acting on their whims against society for all we know. Because we don't know who the mastermind is, we can't assign it safely.
Do I believe that's likely? No. Veronika fits the song so well that there's really no need to bend over backwards with assumptions about the mastermind and their motivations to explain it, even when the video has a famously black and white chess board front and center. I'm happy to just let Vero have this!
Song #9 - Undead Enemy
Prime Suspect: David
Reaching: Min
For whatever reason, he put on a mask symbolizing
the leading role he had yearned for in the past. And from the next day onward,
the unhappy boy's smile did not falter,
he was even loved by someone.
So like do I keep going or is that enough to convince you this is David's.
I mean, an "unhappy boy" puts on a mask that allows others to smile and laugh, making him loved by people. He desires their love even though he also resents them.
Laugh and sneer, you prisoners,
at the good fortune that came to those who smiled, and its messengers too.
Slander and criticize,and then,
I won't need anyone else. Just leave me alone.
I can hear it from far away,
sobbing choked up tears stained by angry roars.
Just stop it everybody.
Don't leave me alone.
David [2-11]: People who are born lazy, useless and stupid will stay that way until they die. If you were able to "improve" yourself into a better person, then it only means you were a better person to begin with.
Aaaaand with that, my career is officially in the trash.
I mean. It fits him even better than Literature Girl Insane, and that's an achievement. The only reason to even consider Min is because of the repeated theme of perfection and references to school in the song.
An equation on the abacus, connections rattle and clatter.
1 mark? 100 marks? 10 marks? Oh my, a failing mark?
1 mark? 100 marks? 10 marks? …and how about you?
But like. Everything else about the song is so incredibly David coded that there's no reason not to give it to him.
These first four are the songs I'm most confident on. That means that if there are any other songs that fit these characters in a vacuum, I will push them to the Reaching tier no matter what, because the song would need to fit better than these. That's difficult.
However, there are two more songs that I find have one prime suspect that stands above other characters. I could see myself being wrong on them, which is why I won't just default to the Reaching tier with them, but still.
Prime Suspect: Teruko
Reaching: David, Future Context
The song talks about how the singer loved someone who hurt them and left them.
I can't go on livin' alone now that you're gone
You done me wrong, so here's your song
Now sing along, baby
Well, I know you know that you're killin' me
But it's worth it just to see you smile
Tell 'em to carve my name in the barstool, baby
You know I'm gonna be here a while
So, Teruko with Xander and to an extent Min. This line in particular fits very well with her fatalistic attitude and generally pessimistic outlook on life.
Compromise is made out of peace
But history's made out of violence
After the war of the worlds has ceased
All that's left is the deafenin' silence
(All that's left is silence??? -> Silence -> Mai dislikes silence!!!- I'm insane)
David could actually work pretty well with Xander and possibly Arei too, but he's so locked into Undead Enemy that any other song you want to give him is gonna be a reach.
However, "Future Context" is actually very relevant for this particular song. At the end of the day, the only thing we have here is someone feeling bitter at someone even after their departure (which in a killing game is probably gonna be death). Do you realize how likely it is that this ends up applying to multiple characters? Already, it might apply to Levi feeling frustrated at Ace's behavior before his death. Eden's also lost people, and the only reason she's not mentioned is because she's not really bitter towards them. I still think Teruko is the most likely, because betrayal is something that's pretty integral to her character and is likely to continue being that way for a while, but there's certainly a possibility that someone else ends up making more sense here.
Song #6 - A Mistaken Belief of Love
Prime Suspect: Arturo
Secondary Suspects: Future Context
Reaching: Whit, Xander, Charles
Alright so those of you who've already read other people's opinions are probably raising your eyebrows because whaaat is this guess. And yeah, at first glance it looks weird, but I swear it makes sense.
The first thing I need to establish before we go any further is that the song isn't strictly about romantic love. Like, yes, you can take it that way because all songs can be interpreted in many ways, but it's not what the song is originally about. Instead, the song is actually about the love between a cat and its owner. Yes, like, deadass a pet. Although the cat is represented as a cat-person throughout most of the video, the ending makes it clear that it is indeed a straight up cat.
In fact, the song might actually be based on a short story by Edgar Allan Poe, "The Black Cat." It helps with context, but I'll mostly focus on the actual song.
To put the story in chronological order, it starts with the owner being neglectful towards the cat, no matter how much the cat loved them.
“Hey, do you still love me?”
The answer to this pantomime-like question
Is still smoldering beneath the surface
I’ll always be suspicious about it
Tonight, the anti-satisfactionist sneers, “you won’t return to the gap in your bed, or your clean and tidy little room.”
The cat doubts the love because the owner doesn't return to "the gap in their bed," their place in their shared room. This neglect comes from the owner's problems, namely alcoholism, though the video shows a few other vices visually, like smoking.
With your ego swelled by a feeling of omnipotence, don’t drink for three straight days
Just about everything is drunk and unsteady
This eventually culminates with the owner... presumably killing the cat in a drunken rage. It's not ultra clear in the video, but that's what it looks like, and it's what happens in The Black Cat, so. The cat dies, is the important thing.
Just about everything is drunk and unsteady
I’m not there, I’m not there, “that’s right!” you say
I’m the one who coughed up blood!
However, the cat's spirit lives on, and begins haunting the owner. This is actually what's shown during most of the video. The cat's anger comes from its mistaken belief that its owner loved it enough to care for it.
Weak, without exception, if we just play peekaboo
Then, I’ll kill you at our rendezvous
I just wanted to mistakenly believe that you loved me
There’s no mistake, you’re no exception, hey, if I die,
I’ll leave you my precuneus, my pennies, everything
I just wanted to mistakenly believe that you loved me
The precuneus is a part of the brain which (among other things) deals with self-consciousness, including comparing your own personality to that of others. Feel free to interpret that however you want, it's not that relevant for us. All we need to understand is that the cat leaves a part of itself with the owner.
Now, it's hard to apply a lot of this to DRDT directly. As far as we know, no one has drinking problems, and no one's killed a cat. However, I believe the main points we can take away are these:
The owner killed the cat.
The cat believed the owner loved them.
The owner is haunted by the cat's death.
You can see why "Future Context" is such a big possibility here. A situation like this can easily happen within the killing game. For example, imagine that in CH3, somehow, Hu ends up killing Nico, but doesn't get executed for some reason or another. Nico fits the cat theming, would've believed that Hu at least liked them, and their death would obviously haunt Hu. At that point, the song would go to... well one of them, I'm not sure which one :v
Do I think that particular scenario is likely? Not really, but it helps to illustrate that an event like the one in the song can happen.
However, it's not necessary. Because I'd argue that there's a character who already fits this song. Arturo, because of Felicity.
Let's review this. The cat loved the owner, just like Felicity admired her brother, as stated in a deleted part of a Q&A answer. However, the owner often left the cat on its own, neglecting it, similar to how Arturo abandoned Felicity. And while Arturo didn't directly kill Felicity, he certainly blames himself for her death. It haunts him, just like the cat's death haunts the owner.
Arturo's Motive Secret: Your younger sister killed herself because of you. You should have never left.
It's not crazy to say, based on what we know, that Felicity committed suicide because she "mistakenly believed" her brother loved her, and stopped believing that when he left.
The counterargument here is that it's a little strange for the song to have large sections sung from the perspective of a side character, as opposed to the singer being the DRDT character related to the song like in most of the other songs. However, given some of the other songs we're gonna see, I wouldn't rely on patterns for these things lol.
As for Xander, Charles and Whit, well. They're some of the only characters who we know have dead people in their backstories who could've had "a mistaken belief of love" (so no poison victims for Min because they presumably didn't know her) and who might actually be haunted by the deaths (so no Levi because he's remorseless). However, we know fuck all about Elliot, Xander doesn't strictly blame himself for his family's death so much as he just feels survivor's guilt over it, and I don't really think Whit's mom could have "mistakenly" believed he loved her, seeing as he does appreciate her very much. So, uh, unless future context gives us extra possibilities, I'm going with Arturo!
My confidence in my guesses is about to take a dive off a cliff. Here we get to the songs that really caused me to procrastinate on this post for years lmao.
Prime Suspect: Whit
Secondary Suspect: Min
Reaching: Charles
Officially the first song with a whole two suspects! Asymptotic is a silly little love song, themed around math, about two lovers who can never get together.
I think you're curvilinear
A real nice graph to see
You're a cutie face in x-y space
Not imaginary
We're asymptotic, we're on it
Till the end of linear time
Asymptotic, divided
By the smallest slimmest line
Asymptotic, obliquely
Here's the point of this speech
As close as we could ever get
You'll be just out of reach
In case you're not caught up on your math, an asymptote of a curve is a line that the curve infinitely approaches, but never intersects. For example, take the function 1/x, graphed in the image for the song, and make x tend to infinity. That means, make x a big ass number. Then, 1/x becomes really close to 0, right? In fact, if you tell me any positive number larger than 0 (call it ε), and I can tell you a number x' such that not only is 1/x' smaller than ε, but 1/x is smaller than ε for any x larger than x'. However, what you can't do is name a value of x such that 1/x is exactly zero. So the curve 1/x approaches the straight line y = 0, but never touches it.
And yeah, this is pretty Whit coded.
Whit's Profile: Unfortunately for Whit Young, he seems to lack all luck when it comes to finding a relationship himself.
Whit can try all he wants to get into a relationship, but for one reason or another, he never actually manages to establish the relationship. So he and his crushes can always get very close, but they never end up "touching". Additionally, Whit has some connection to math, or at least computer science and data analysis.
Whit [2-7]: Machine learning! We both like machine learning!
Charles: Machine learning is the use of computer algorithms that have the ability to learn from data without being explicitly programmed. [...]
Machine learning also has its uses in matchmaking, or any fields in which one may need to process a large number of individuals.
However, there's a much easier way to connect math to Whit. It's also the reason Charles is in the "Reaching" part. The Ultimate Chemist is Whit's most plot relevant love interest at the moment, and Chemist -> Science -> Math. Sure, chemistry is (to my understanding and depending on the specific branch) not the most math heavy of sciences, which is why Charles is in the "reaching" tier, but it's close enough.
And the song really does make a lot of sense if you take it as Whit singing it to Charles. Like, you look at these corny ass, immensely pun dense lyrics and tell me they're not some bullshit Whit would say to try and put the moves on Charles.
I think you're curvilinear
A real nice graph to see
You're a cutie face in x-y space
Not imaginary
The limits are infinitely great
I wish that we could cosine
But that'll have to wait
It's derivative to say
You're integral to me
We're off on our own tangents
Fading constantly
So, the Matchmaker gets what is probably the most explicitly romantic song in the playlist. Makes enough sense, right?
Well, eh. There's an issue with it, which is that it feels reductive. Like, Whit definitely has some other shit going on. Giving him a song based exclusively on one line in his profile, which hasn't even come up in the main series yet, feels very strange.
But you could argue this is a problem with asymptotic itself, as opposed to specifically the Whit guess. DRDT characters are all very complex and have a lot of shit going on, giving any of them a love song that has very little else going on is always gonna feel like a disservice.
And when taking that into account, you could argue that being reductive actually fits Whit, in a way. A big part of his character is that he always ignores complicated situations and feelings, right? So why not give him a song that brushes aside all his other issues and focuses only in his misfortune with romance, arguably the least of his issues?
The other argument you can make is that... well, these songs don't have to be a full encapsulation of the characters. I'll point you again to the three songs that have almost no lyrics; those ones can only hope to encapsulate a character's vibe, and little else. It'd be unfair to ask every song to capture the entirety of a character when those three could never do it. And for what it's worth, I'd argue asymptotic's silly goofy sound fits Whit pretty decently.
Still, it's worth keeping our options open. And while giving the Matchmaker a love song makes sense, it makes just as much sense to give the Student a math song. The question is, how would it work? As much as I love Terumin, their relationship doesn't have the same kind of explicitly romantic undertones that Charwhit has imo. And none of the other Min ships are particularly prominent in canon, either.
But perhaps we don't need the romantic undertones. It's possible this is meant to be about Min and Teruko in a more general sense, in that Min wanted to be closer to Teruko, but Teruko was distrusting as ever and ends up pushing her away, especially after the first trial. That could certainly work, especially as Min's secret quote is directly about Teruko. However, I'm not super convinced by this possibility because Min... just didn't actually express that much interest on getting close to Teruko before her death, imo. She wanted to save her, sure, but that was an impulsive decision. She doesn't really express the sort of eternal yearning the song talks about. They hung out, like, once before Xander's murder attempt, and Eden and Rose were there too.
On the other hand, you could abstract the person the song is about to just be an allegory of Min's goals. Not being the Ultimate Student, because she did achieve that, but rather making something worthwhile with her life, like becoming a teacher. The issue I have here is that while this fits the whole "the lines don't touch" idea, it sorta fails at the "infinitely close" aspect of an asymptote. Min doesn't fail at becoming a teacher because she could never have reached her goal even with infinite time, as the song would suggest, she fails because she dies before she can.
What I'm arguing is that the situation looks like this:
I'm having fun with the math song >:)
Per Whit's profile, he's "fated" to have bad luck in relationships. No matter how hard he tries or how long he spends trying, he just has bad luck with romance. Meanwhile, Min could have reached her goals, only she got killed before she could. Arguably, she could have also gotten closer to Teruko, if you consider that her goal. So she's not asymptotic, she's a curve cut short. Does that make sense?
However, I am being a little pedantic, and the song itself already does some amount of math butchering (why are you talking about "divided by the smallest thinnest line" then showing two curves that diverge in literal opposite direction on screen-), so you can probably get away with the wiggle room. These are both still very good interpretations, even if I personally prefer the Whit one. That's why Min is still a secondary suspect!
Also I would be lying if I said I'm not a little biased. I don't really like asymptotic that much and Min's my favorite character so I'm more likely to look for reasons to give it to a different character xD
Also Charles is here, should probably elaborate. Well, I mentioned it before, but Chemistry -> Science -> Math, is the logic. The issue here is that from Charles' perspective, there's no reason to believe he would be "asymptotic" to the Charwhit endgame. If he wanted to date the guy, he could just ask, no reason to believe they would always be separated and parallel. The one who has bad luck in romance is Whit, after all. So, uh. Moving on!
Song #3 - RUNAWAY
Main Suspects: Future Context, Charles
Secondary Suspects: Teruko
Reaching:
Chat we have a problem.
I find that everything I am is
Everything I should be
Chat this line disqualifies the entire cast how do I proceed.
Indeed, this song has the peculiar problem of being too damn happy for this cast of 16 crashouts (and before you mention Eden, fork). That's why I genuinely considering finding a way to put Mai in the playlist, because she's just the happiest and least troubled character here, or she was until They Got Her ig. Twas' not but a fleeting thought, however, since the songs are ostensibly about the main cast.
However, let's not panic. What is the song actually about, if I'm saying it's so happy? It's effectively about facing your flaws, acknowledging them, but still loving yourself despite them. The song starts with the singer pointing out their own flaws, and feeling bad about them. They're silly flaws, but flaws regardless.
I've been searching, nothing's working
I've been tripping, no one's perfect
Chasing vision, just the surface
Shirt's on backwards, not on purpose
I've been learning, something bigger
Expectations, feet were failing
However, they then face themselves and decide that despite these flaws, everything will be okay. They don't need to be perfect ("redirecting my perfection somewhere else"). That's "the promise"... I think.
Staring into my reflection
Redirecting my perfection somewhere else
(Ohh, ohh, oh)
When there isn't any progress
Lean on truth inside the promise, it is well
(Ohh, ohh, oh)
Despite these flaws, they see a bright future for themselves, filled with empty pages ready to be filled. They are content with themselves, even in their imperfections.
I hold my life out in front of me
Dreams of who I want to be
I'm seeing every empty page
I find that everything I am is
Everything I should be
I don't need to run away
With this, they finally begin growing past their doubts, and learn to love themselves.
Something's working, heart is turning
Vision's clear, and still I'm learning
That what I am, what I am, what I am, what I am
Is something more than I can plan
So... it's cooked. Like, it's way too happy a song for anyone here, right? The only thing that makes sense is that this is talking about the end of a character's arc, thus, Future Context is the only real possibility.
Or at least, that's what I thought, until I read googledetective's post where they called out Charles as a possibility, and I saw the vision. Just like the singer, Charles originally had very high standards for both himself and the people he interacted with, dismissing most of his classmates out of hand because of their talents. After CH1, however, Charles is arguably the character most willing to confront his flaws without running away from them. He acknowledges his original attitude of a loner was bad, he gives the secret he receives to Teruko to account for the possibility of getting incapacitated by his hemophobia/necrophobia, and he even starts learning basic adulting skills like cooking and laundry with the help of Whit. Sure, he's still arrogant about his intelligence, but to be fair to him what competition does he have beyond Teruko and maybe Rose?
Additionally, out of every crashout in this cast, Charles is arguably the one most comfortable with himself. He's never really showed much self-doubt after CH1, trusting his abilities while still keeping his flaws in mind. And if you argue that the RUNAWAY haver must 1. Confront their flaws, and 2. Be comfortable with themselves, it becomes clear why Charles is one of the only options. Characters like Whit may be pretty happy with themselves, but avoid their flaws, while people like Eden can face their issues, but don't feel fantastic (thinking about Eden's guilt over Min and Arei's deaths here).
Finally, there's one last reason to give this to Charles, but it's related to some "deeper" lore. I know I talked about the storyline in A Mistaken Belief of Love, but that was because it was directly included in the lyrics. RUNAWAY's video has an extra story sort of running in the background of the song's more general statement, so whether or not dev took it into account is certainly up in the air. However, I still wanted to address it because look at this description:
1960 - 26 year old Jessica Avet opens a stack of 20 letters from her father, J Francis Avet, addressed to her before he was drafted in 1940. Francis left his 6 year old daughter knowing he might not ever return, so wrote with the intension [sic] for Jess to read a letter on her birthday every year for 20 years. Jess never read a single one, until her 26th birthday.
So, this person has a family member who died when they were young, but they kinda ignored them for years and only faced them when they were much older? That's so Charles coded it's incredible. I'm this close to outright theorizing that CH3 is gonna have him receiving a letter from Elliot or something.
Charles is not the only option, however. Again, at any point a character could just... have an arc where they face their flaws and suddenly they fit here too. That's why Teruko in particular is a suspect; if anyone's getting a happy ending, it's probably her due to protag privilege, so she's the likeliest to have an arc that fits RUNAWAY. Something to watch out for, I guess.
Song #8 - Yesman
Prime Suspects: Ace, Nico, Min
Secondary Suspects: Arturo, Xander
Reaching: David
Me when I'm a DRDT character and my recap foil gets a song-
Okay so we have a problem chat. It's the everlasting problem that has plagued, like, every song analysis post in my Tumblr backlog. The issue that translation is very hard! Because there are quite a few different translations online, but a lot of them have some pretty big differences with the official English captions of the original video (the one on the DRDT playlist is a cover). There's a decent chance some of these translations have slightly different meanings, which could change interpretations of the song. I'm making the executive decision to use the translation in the captions on the og video for this analysis, please don't kill me if you prefer to take other translations into account T_T
Anyways. The song is a dialogue between two characters, which I believe may have names within the storyline of the song but which I'm going to call Flower and Miku after the Vocaloid used for their lyrics, because it's funnier that way. Flower is the titular "yesman", someone who behaves exactly the way society wants them to without pushing against it, even if they hate that life.
Flower: Hiding a selfish, angry laughter
Pitted malt of selling complaints
Hiding a casual abstention
It's okay if I dance forever, right?
"I just want to live normally
Isn't that lovely?"
"Ordinary person, extraordinary person, there's not much of a difference, right?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, if I just nod it'll be fine
I want to live fair and square
Do you understand?"
Miku, meanwhile, is someone who isn't like that. She calls flower out for being "caught in the trap" of disillusionment.
Miku: Yes, face to face with things I hate
"I have no euphemism, I hate this"
The you that says these is still a ghoul, truly great
"Well, I didn't have motivation from the beginning
By now, there's no meaning of going back"
Saying these, you were caught in your own trap
The "ghoul" imagery connects to the chorus, where Flower is directly compared to the living dead.
Undead, Undead!
Beside you
Undead, Undead!
Dancing 'till the morning
Undead, Undead!
Peace at any price
I'm just a performing blockhead
Side note, because this is kinda relevant for DRDT related discussion, the word translated here as "blockhead", 朴念仁さ (read: bokunenjin), can also be translated to something like "introvert", which you might see in other translations.
In any case, Flower initially dislikes Miku for being the "disappointment" society believes Miku to be, but she eventually realizes that she doesn't want to feel that way. That's the view of a critical "adult."
Flower: The "disappointment" label that was attached to you some day
I can't get it out of my head
Somehow, by the time I realized
I turned into one of those useless critics called adults
Then Miku... does some yuri stuff? I think? Idk what's actually going on here.
Miku: Being surrounded and taken care of wasn't an ideal
I'm okay with being inside of your heart, when it's not lonely
I want to lower the curtain as if I am going to sleep
Regardless. In the video, the character Flower represents ends up breaking everything around them, as if finally being free from those expectations. However, the lyrics don't seem to reflect this all that much? So I'm a little confused at that part.
Undead, Undead!
Same as usual
I'm just a dancing blockhead
Moaning/singing* x2!
Begging 'till death
Moaning/singing x2!
I want to finish with you
Moaning/singing x2!
Don't fall into here
Into a waiting blockhead
Ah, this life is the best
*In the video, the Japanese writing says "moaning", but there's also English writing saying "singing'". This works because homophones rule
Look, the details aren't completely important. What we need to look for, assuming we take Flower to be the "main character" of the song, is a character who is a "yes man" and does what people expect them to, even if they hate it.
When I first got that, my immediate thought was Ace. He's stated he hates horse riding, but still does it out of performance anxiety whenever he's forced to. So, a complete yesman in that regard. Adding onto that, he's the character that best fits the "undead" chanting, having survived a murder attempt. Even LGI calls it out, with his numeral being attached to the phrase "a cat has 9 lives."
However, Nico works well too. They're also forced into a particular role by society, having to hide their gender identity, even if they hate being called a boy or a girl. They arguably also work better with the idea that the singer ends up rejecting society's pressures in the end, as they have come out as nonbinary, while Ace never got a chance to quit horse-riding. They're not as connected to the "undead" imagery, but they do work better with the "introvert" translation of 朴念仁さ.
But if you're talking about introverts who succumb to societal pressures, you have to mention Societal Pressure Girl. Min shows clear contempt towards her talent in her Bonus Episode, so the connection is made pretty clear there. Additionally, she works best with Flower's insults towards Miku, because of Xander. Flower and Miku beefing over different ideals on fighting against expectations is extremely reminiscent of Min's clashes with Xander throughout the entirety of their stay in the killing game. Especially since, like Miku and Flower end up agreeing on how much dancing to society's tune sucks, Min and Xander actually sorta agree on how pointless the Student talent is.
In fact, Xander also manages to sneak in as a suspect just because of these clashes. If Min is Flower, then Xander is Hatsune Miku (put that in the "out of context theorists" compilation), so he is technically connected to the song. The only reason he's secondary is because I'd expect Flower to be the one connected to the DRDT character, as she's the titular "Yesman," but still.
Why did I put Arturo as a secondary suspect. I'm writing this a few hours after writing his name there, so... I forgot why I did it. Like, I think I was cooking something about beauty standards and how they could be related to societal pressures, but like. Arturo doesn't hate beauty standards. Chat I've reached the point where my theorizing is incomprehensible even to me, is it all over?
Anyways, at least David as an option is a bit clearer. All the reasons he fits with Yesman are the same for why he fits with Undead Enemy, the only reason he's in "reaching" is because Undead Enemy just fits him better overall.
Song #12 - tip toes
Main Suspects: Min
Secondary Suspects: Hu, Arturo, Charles
Reaching: J, David
At the risk of sounding a little pretentious, you know how our world has a bunch of superficial symbols of status? Well, the singer is someone who achieved something like that, and indeed feels pride over it. However, they're not super happy with it. They wish they could be more earnest and follow their real desires instead of these symbols of status. They want to be "set free from wanting things they don't need." Think, like, a famous singer living a luxurious life, but hating how superficial it all is.
Demanding my mind be set free
From wanting the things I don't need
My pride is hiding its lies behind all the dreams
Living inside
Delusion is weighing me down
It's taking the hope that I found
And giving me nothing back
The feeling is creeping in slow
It's feeding my need to be known
And giving me nothing back
The "delusion" here is a delusion of grandeur taking away their true dreams and passions, it's the "need to be known" that's "giving them nothing back". However, it's not easy for them to let go of the pride associated with these superficial status symbols, causing an internal conflict they describe as a "heart attack."
Heart attack, so now I'm on my
Tip toes, trying to see past my ego
I'm reaching for something more than this feeling of being important
Leaving my heart behind, it's bleeding
But still my pride is screaming
My future will listen to me
Listen to me, listen to me
Will I always know this divide?
Living most of this war inside
Take this ghost of me with the tide to die
And release my heart to come alive
They want something more substantial than this meaningless status, this "feeling of being important" that's making them "leave their heart behind", but their pride is making it difficult, "screaming" for them not to give that up. They lament over this divide, wishing they could take this superficial "ghost" of themselves to die and fully follow their heart. And we don't have any more lines so we kinda gotta work with this.
With the way I described the song, you can probably guess which character I'm angling towards. Because if there is a symbol of status that someone has that they feel is superficial and meaningless, that has to be the title of the Ultimate Student. Because an Ultimate title, a spot in Hope's Peak, is obviously an extremely important symbol of status. And yet, in her Bonus Episode, Min makes it clear that she doesn't find her title to be as meaningful as others', because it's sorta inherently unsubstantial. She expresses a clear desire to grow past the title, to do something more with her life, something more than this title that does little more than make her appear important and well known.
And yet, Min doesn't just completely dismiss her title. Whenever Xander expressed his clear hatred of the title and what it stands for, Min was always quick to defend her lifestyle and argue for the importance of her talent, even though she fundamentally agreed with Xander. This is where the "ego" comes in. A part of Min does still feel proud of her accomplishments as the Ultimate Student, even when another part of her thinks it's an useless title, so it's hurtful when someone insults that. And it's not something she lets go of easily, as illustrated by the fact she continued studying even within the killing game.
This is why I put Min as the only main suspect, because I find her to be the best example of the song's conflict. She clearly expresses both the pride and the feeling that the thing she's proud of is stupid and worthless. However, the song is much more vague than I've been treating it as, so other options can definitely fit here as well.
In particular, Hu and Arturo could both easily fit this song in the near future. "The feeling of being important" is something that Hu explicitly looks for, wanting to be seen as reliable by the others. And of course, Arturo chases status more so than he chases beauty, as he quickly went from not thinking about J at all to immediately becoming obsessed when he learnt who her mother was.
However, they share the same problem; this song only works for them if you assume they'll go through a certain character arc. Currently, neither Hu or Arturo actually feel conflicted over their "pride." Hu sees nothing wrong about wanting to be seen as reliable and important, and Arturo has expressed regret over very little beyond his sister's death and catching Veronika's attention. For the song to work, then, you need to assume that either Hu will begin loving herself regardless of what others think of her, or Arturo will look past his desire for status and search for something more meaningful. And even if you feel comfortable assuming that, the fact Min effectively starts the killing game already fitting the song makes me lean towards her more than these two, you feel?
Charles, meanwhile, has already grown past his pride as one of the only "real" Ultimates that he expressed during the Prologue, so he fits a bit better in that sense. He realized the Ultimate thing was not the most important thing ever in the face of stuff like basic adulting skills, he "looked past his ego" and learnt to rely in others.
But there is a reason that he's not a prime suspect. His blinding pride and his desire for something more meaningful never truly coexist. In CH1, he's arrogant and self-important, but he doesn't show a desire to grow past that. And in CH2, he's already pretty much completely let go of his "feeling of being important" as one of the few "true" Ultimates. And even if you argue it could be referring to how he still considers himself smarter than anyone else, we then run into the same problem as CH1, because he has no desire to let go of that. The conflict, if it ever existed, ended before it became relevant.
On another note, David once again faces the funny situation of being really fitting for a song, but getting put in "Reaching" because of Undead Enemy. He feels his talent is just as useless as Min considers hers, and he definitely looks for something more meaningful by following Xander. But again, Undead Enemy.
Finally, J is here as someone who let go of a whole lot of status to follow her passions, but like. If she ever felt conflicted about leaving her status behind, we sure as hell never see it. The only reason I'm even mentioning her is that the only other song I mentioned her in is Hi-fi Evolution Theory so I kinda have to start giving her some options lmao.
Song #16 - Good Grief
Prime Suspects: Eden, Whit
Secondary Suspects: Xander, Teruko, Future Context
Reaching: David
Stated directly by its writers, this song is about how confusing grief is. The song is about someone who lost someone else.
Watching through my fingers x2
Shut my eyes and count to ten
It goes in one ear out the other, oh
One ear out the other, oh
Burning bright right till the end
Now you'll be missing from the photographs
Missing from the photographs
Watching through my fingers x2
In my thoughts, you're far away
And you are whistling a melody
Whistling a melody
Crystallising clear as day
Oh, I can picture you so easily
Picture you so easily
They're "watching through their fingers" either because they're scared to confront the death, they're crying with their hands on their face, or both. Now, this loss makes them feel very sad and hopeless, of course:
What's gonna be left of the world if you're not in it?
What's gonna be left of the world, oh?
Every minute and every hour
I miss you, I miss you, I miss you more
Every stumble and each misfire
I miss you, I miss you, I miss you more
However, because of how intense their grief is, this sadness isn't simple. It's interrupted by moments of intense emotions in general, including a weird euphoria when being reminded of the lighter moments in that person's life. That's why when they're "caught off guard by your favorite song", they begin "dancing at the funeral." It's representing the way people might laugh and joke about silly stories of the dead to celebrate their life, for example.
Caught off-guard by your favourite song
Oh, I'll be dancing at a funeral
Dancing at a funeral
Sleeping in the clothes you love
It's such a shame we had to see them burn
Shame we had to see them burn
You might have to excuse me
I've lost control of all my senses
And you might have to excuse me
I've lost control of all my words
So get drunk, call me a fool
Put me in my place, put me in my place
Pick me up, up off the floor
Put me in my place, put me in my place
Which gets us into the very obvious problem that a song about grief in a killing game might as well be a song about water in a school of fish. It can end up applying to basically anyone, provided the right people die. Hence why Future Context is a suspect. But if you ask me, this idea of laughing about better times to celebrate a person's life in the wake of their death makes me think of one conversation in particular, at least for now.
Eden [2-3]: You know, being in this kitchen, it reminds me of that time that you, I, Rose, and Min were baking together. You remember that, right?
Teruko: ...
Of course I remember.
Eden: We had a ton of fun back then! Baking, decorating, and chatting... I could tell everyone really enjoyed it!
But then... When you dropped that cake, and Min had to clean up the mess... Because of that, she ended up having to kill Xander.
The conversation continues, but you get the idea. Combine that with Arei, and it looks like Eden will be doing a whole lot of grieving in the near future. And with her being an intensely emotional person, it makes sense that she'd embody the entire massive spectrum of emotions grief can bring. Also this is literally the first time I've brought her up I need to give her some songs already.
However, Eden works if you take the intended meaning of the song. Because if you read the lyrics divorced from the writers' statements, then you can actually interpret it as someone ignoring their grief. The dancing in the funeral, the shutting eyes and looking through fingers, the "picture you so easily", the sleeping in clothes they loved, the losing control of the senses... It certainly gives off Whit "looking away" from his mother's death energy. The fact this is grief he felt before the killing game also arguably gives him points, as it is an integral part of his character from the start, as opposed to Eden who only starts feeling grief during the killing game. But at the same time, the fact that the song does acknowledge the death at all ("you'll be missing from the photographs", "I miss you more") is a little strange when Whit ignores the issue so much he deadass forgets his mom is dead at all. So. There's that counterargument.
Similar to Whit, Xander also feels grief before the killing game, which is why he's here, but unfortunately we just don't know enough about how he feels about his family to make him a prime suspect. And Teruko is here on the basis that she will definitely feel a good amount of grief over the course of the killing game, on top of whatever the hell she's going to feel about Mai's very likely death. But because it hasn't been shown yet, I don't want to put her as a Prime Suspect for now.
And David is here because look at tally 5 dawg my guy's grieving. But for the fiftieth time this post, Undead Enemy pushes him to the Reaching tier. I'm starting to wonder if maybe always disqualifying him was a bad move but oh well.
Song #10 - Drawing Pins
Prime Suspect: Levi, Nico
Secondary Suspects: Teruko, Hu
Reaching: Min, Rose, Future Context
This song is about someone who feels stuck in an awful situation, "held down by drawing pins."
I'm held down by drawing pins
They pierce the skin
Additionally, the singer feels they can't understand the person they're speaking to. Apparently, this person has done something to them, and the singer can't understand why they did it.
Lights are on but no one's in - When you talk
I don't feel like I belong - Here at all
Tell me what you did it
What you did it
What you did it for
'Cause I can't figure it out
Finally, the singer wants to be loved by the person they're speaking to.
What do I have to do
To be loved, loved by you
And... that's it. You can see why this is so difficult to determine. The song's very vague, and the emotions it expresses are pretty common amongst the cast.
Still, if you're talking about people feel like they "don't belong here at all", you're probably looking at Levi and Nico. They both have issues understanding people and their actions, fitting the whole "lights are on but no one's in when you talk" and "tell me what you did it for" thing. And they've both been stuck in unfavorable positions, being unable to freely discuss a part of themselves. Particularly, Nico didn't feel comfortable sharing their gender identity at the start, and Levi didn't feel comfortable sharing his low empathy. The desire to feel loved can then be abstracted to being accepted for Nico and being seen as a good person for Levi, though I give the slight edge to Levi here in terms of who it fits more.
As for secondary suspects, we go to Hu. She fits with the desire to be loved while being stuck in the unfortunate position of mental health issues which led her to attempt suicide several times, and you could argue she struggles to understand Nico's and David's actions for the chorus. However, I feel like that might be recency bias, if that makes sense? Like, Hu not understanding people isn't as core a part of her character as it is for Levi and Nico, the David and Nico situations are just particular cases where she struggles to see the other person's perspective. It feels to me like that aspect of lack of understanding only feels really relevant because it's one of the last things we've seen of Hu's character as of the end of CH2.
The same can be said about Teruko, but at least "why did Xander try to kill her" seems to be a highly important question for the storyline as a whole, so it would make a bit more sense to draw attention to it with that chorus. And her misfortune is certainly something that "pins her down," so it tracks. She's not a primary suspect solely because I think this fits Levi and Nico better, not because there's too many problems with it.
Going to the final category, Min and Rose work in the sense that they're the most directly "under drawing pins" in the sense that XF-Ture Tech and the Spurling Foundation have forced them into horrible positions, but they really struggle with the "tell me what you did it for" thing. Also, cartoons exists, so Rose has better options. On the other hand, if we're going to accept that said chorus is about a particular point in the killing game, like Xander's attempted murder or the Nico and David situations, then we have to acknowledge the possibility that something like that will happen again, and more suspects will enter the list. So, Future Context.
Song #13 - Polygonal
Prime Suspects: Teruko, Ace, Hu
Secondary Suspects: Nico, Levi, Xander
Reaching: David, Charles, Arei
The second song without an easily accessible translation, so we're gonna have to put our faith in Google Translate once more. And unlike Hi-fi, this one's a little hard to understand.
This song is about... uh... it's, like. So it's. Hm. Uh... self-loathing?
Ah, a life full of failures
And so time melts away again
Ah, a life full of regrets
And yet another anchor appears
The scenery I can't see is still
Stained bright red
Everyone wants to laugh with someone
Okay, that's a start. The self-loathing causes the singer to grow jealous of... just, like, someone. From my understanding, they call themselves a mirror, because they... presumably are trying to replicate behavior?
Narrow-mindedness. You saw the "white" personality and dreams
Unable to love them properly
This rotten mirror
Was jealous of someone
I hate you, who grows straight and tall
My understanding here is that the "white" personality and dreams are, like, a facade of "good" born from the singer trying to replicate the person they're jealous of ("rotten mirror"). Or the "white" personality is actually the real personality of the singer, but they feel it cannot be loved regardless. The main idea is the whole "reflection" and "unable to be loved" thing, at least from my interpretation. The singer's trying to be a "mirror" of good people to be loved?
This pain that we can see
"Melting away like a mirage"
In a prison no one sees
Alone, we
Rot away
Okay, okay. We're making progress. Again, the singer doesn't feel "seen", their pain is sorta festering away from sight and causing them to rot, right? That's what's going on? Maybe we can understand the chorus now?
Ah, this light that shines only on me
It hurts so much I feel dizzy and want to vomit
The auditory hallucinations that never stop today, endless delusions
Beyond the never-ending nightmare
The urge to scream and someone's amplified sobs
It's on the other side of the mirror
Many voices that seem about to burst
Resonating through the mirror, that's my pain
What the fuck is happening.
Okay let's take it one line at a time. "Light that shines only on me" is a spotlight, so the singer feels put... on a spotlight. They feel like the center of attention, but they don't like it ("it hurts so much"). Because of the whole "delusion" talk, it reads to me in a sort of self-destructively self-centered way, if that makes sense. They feel like everyone's judging them, basically? That's presumably what the "auditory hallucinations" would be, the thought that other people are judging and talking shit. Am I making sense or making shit up.
What's on the other side of the mirror? Well, if the mirror is sort of the singer pretending to be similar to other people... then they are the person beyond the mirror, screaming and sobbing with a voice about to burst.
Okay, okay! Again, hidden pain, etc.
The lingering echo, terribly dull
Those eyes reflected in loneliness
It turned "purple"
A bruise I don't remember getting
A green corpse
And this memory that is eating away at me, a melancholy that frightens me
Why are we bringing memory into it. Why is purple in quotes. Am I losing my mind.
Uh... would you all forgive me if I just let this little part go as "the singer is vaguely depressed about the past"? I'm struggling with the imagery around here.
Okay, uh. So as a summary, the singer feels they can't be loved, put on a spotlight and constantly judged. So they put up a front of a "mirror" which you take however you want. They hide pain behind that mirror. They're jealous of the people who can stand themselves. Memory bullshit.
I think why you can see why this is such a problem. Unlike other songs, which are so vague that it's impossible to draw much meaning from them, this song is so detailed that no character can fit it perfectly. And that's without mentioning that a lot of the song is up to interpretation, so a lot of what I said might not even apply.
Arguably, Ace fits the best here. He does feel constantly judged as if he's on a spotlight, he hides his fear of death, he wants to be loved even if he tries to put distance between himself and others, he expressed jealousy over Arei, and... the memory thing can maybe go with Taylor?
But that doesn't mean he fits perfectly. Even beyond the stretch for the memory connection, Ace's issue is that the mirror, in his case, is only concealing things. I wouldn't really argue he's "reflecting" anything. Unless you say he's replicating everyone else's aggression, but... he's usually the one starting shit, so I don't think that works very well.
Teruko here is essentially the same thing as Ace, with the feeling of being unloved despite wanting to connect to people, the hidden pain, and the feeling of a spotlight (see: her referring to herself as the "protagonist"). She's a stronger guess in the "memory bullshit" department with all she's forgotten (incident of her back scar, Mai's name, prosopagnosia), but she arguably doesn't care as much about being judged (outwardly, at least, but also she doesn't respect a lot of people's opinions). And she still has the issue of the mirror not making a whole lot of sense, seeing as she generally does her own thing.
Hu, meanwhile, fits perfectly with the mirror imagery.
Hu [2-6]: You see, when my parents were younger, they often visited a local lake.
Supposedly, the water was so still that it perfectly reflected the sky and the many butterflies that flew above the lake during those quiet morning hours.
They had many fond memories of that place and wanted to work it into my name. My last and first name can be translated into something like "still lake."
See? It's not just that, but Hu also (arguably) goes along with David's ideas during CH2, in a way "reflecting" them. She's mirroring the actions of someone she considers good and upstanding, even if "jealous" is maybe too strong of a way to put how she felt about David before 2-11. And the reason she does this is out of a desperate desire to be loved, to be seen as reliable. She is extremely worried about what other people think of her, far more than Ace and Teruko imo, to the point where the main reason she doesn't want her secret revealed is that she doesn't want it to make her seem less reliable. So, the "hidden pain" part is obvious.
Finally, the memory thing sorta works with the idea that she's hurting either herself or others without realizing, as she does by talking over Nico. "A bruise she doesn't remember" might just mean she doesn't see the damage she did to her relationship with Nico until it's too late. A little bit of a stretch, but not the worst imo.
And speaking of "not noticing you're hurting someone until it's too late," that's where our secondary suspects of Levi and Nico come in. They both struggle to understand how others think, and as a result end up mostly "reflecting" behavior of those they respect, though Levi much more than Nico given the Pet Therapist mostly does their own thing. The "hidden pain" and "constantly judged" things works better for Nico, but the "memory bullshit" part might work better with Levi "oh yeah I forgot I killed my dad" Fontana. It works, but I don't see it as much as the first three.
So... what about Xander? Well, he's kinda a suspect mainly because the imagery fits him extremely well. "Rotting" gets brought up a lot, and Xander's family was described as "rotting." The video shows someone... not having the greatest time, fitting that again. And his family's deaths are the clearest idea of what "a memory eating away at [the singer]" could be referring to.
"Hiding pain" behind a "mirror" would need some assumptions, but you could argue that following the Chariton incident, Xander became more like his idol David pretended to be; a "mirror" of his idol to hide his survivor's guilt. Shaky, but works. The spotlight and "feeling constantly judged" thing... are ever shakier, but Xander has been known to do some bad things because he trusts himself (see: attacking Teruko), which could be seen as a sort of self-centered attitude. In this case, feeling bad about the spotlight is a little defeatist, like he hates that he's the center of all these hard decisions, but he's only like that because he trusts his judgement over others'? Something like that. There's a lot of assumptions made there, some of which I don't believe mind you, which is why he's only a secondary suspect. However, you can work around it all, so he's not "reaching."
Speaking of that category, though. David and Arei actually fit extremely well given they're foils of Teruko and Ace in the relevant aspects, and the only reason they're not prime suspects is because Shun-ran and Undead Enemy exist. Finally, Charles is here because "a bruise I don't remember getting" sounded like Elliot to me on a first listen (or, first read-through of the lyrics), and even though the rest of the song doesn't fit too well imo, it's enough to consider it at least.
With this, we've officially run out of songs that make any degree of sense. The next three songs are the "quasi-instrumentals" that have basically no lyrics, which means we're gonna have to do this by vibe check alone. Save me.
Prime Suspects: Xander, J, Ace
Secondary Suspects: Levi, Teruko
Reaching: Charles
This song is pretty "punchy" and groovy. It's energetic and somewhat aggressive. I'm struggling to describe the vibe, but from that alone you can see why Xander, J and Ace are options.
Teruko is a secondary suspect because I think the vibe fits well, but not as well as the other three, and because the idea of something being "unbreakable" fits her whole Ultimate Luck making her survive anything. Levi is here because he's big and muscular like Jojo characters, and the vibe doesn't not fit him.
Charles is here because diamond is, uh, a material, so like chemistry and shit.
Oh dear God the quality of the guesses somehow fell even harder than before T_T
It's the same suspects I'm not making a new graphic lmao
This song has (count them!) two lines.
If I was in World War Two they'd call me Spitfire
'Cause you know that I can
... Well then!
The song is loud and extremely abrasive. It has its chiller and more melodic moments, but it's mostly just a bunch of screaming over harsh sounds. So, again. Xander, Ace, J, and to an extent Levi and Teruko. Though, if it helps, the Spitfire was a British plane, so... Xander evidence? I don't fucking know man.
Veronika and Arei are here because I've lost control of my life.
Song #15 - desk rotation
Prime Suspects: fuck if i know dude
Reaching: Nico, J, Whit, Charles, David, Eden, Arturo, Min, Veronika, Rose, Teruko
And here we have it, the song in the playlist without any lyrics at all! dev this song has 23k views on YT what is this incomprehensible ball knowledge you posses?
Anyways, the song is- I don't fucking know, it's a bunch of noise and it's sorta kinda upbeat? Not to say it's bad, I think it kinda bangs but my music taste is sorta trash so idk if I'm the best judge of that.
Look you saw the list. The song's vibe is so absurdly indescribable that it can basically fit anyone if you look at it a certain way. And what the fuck else am I supposed to say here? Min could have it because Student -> Desks -> desk rotation? Nico because it has no words and they have trouble communicating? We've completely lost the thread. It's probably going to have to come down to process of elimination. It is what it is, I guess.
With all of this, we can reach a conclusion I'm decently comfortable with. Sort of.
See, for a lot of these songs, even if I think there are multiple people that fit well, it's convenient to choose one person over the other for the playlist overall to work better. I think Yesman works great with both Ace and Min, but Min is a great choice for tip toes. Meanwhile Ace's other songs are all pretty heavily contested, so I'm giving Yesman to Ace, which in turn means I can also give Polygonal to Hu without too much issue. Similarly, I could see Good Grief for Whit, but Eden's been absent basically the entire post while Whit at least has asymptotic, so to Eden Good Grief goes.
The surprising issue is Drawing Pins. Nico and Levi haven't shown up a lot aside the quasi-instrumentals for Levi, which means the playlist can work well with either of them on the song. Ultimately, I'm going to give the song to Levi because I think it fits a bit better, but I'll also give an alternate solution with Nico on Drawing Pins to cover my bases.
With that stated, here's the final list!
Diamond is Unbreakable (Main Theme) - Xander.
Confidence Rating: 2.0/10
Sing Along - Teruko
Confidence Rating: 7.0/10
RUNAWAY - Charles
Confidence Rating: 4.5/10
cartoons- Rose
Confidence Rating: 9.5/10
asymptotic - Whit
Confidence Rating: 5.0/10
アイアルの勘違い (A Mistaken Belief of Love) - Arturo
Confidence Rating: 6.5/10
春嵐 (Shunran) - Arei
Confidence Rating: 9.5/10
イヱスマン (Yesman) - Ace
Confidence Rating: 5.0/10
アンデッドエネミー (Undead Enemy) - David
Confidence Rating: 9.0/10
Drawing Pins - Levi
Confidence Rating: 2.0/10 (low because of Nico, not because it doesn't fit)
And there we have it! Clearly, I'm not particularly confident on most of this, but I think it's a pretty reasonable solution. I wonder if the dev will ever reveal which was which, or if we'll never get to know just how wrong I was.
Hope you all enjoyed reading, regardless of whether you agree with me on these picks or not! It was certainly fun to go over all of this and try to figure out a way to make it work. If you made it this far, you deserve your own playlist song! Hope yours at least gets lyrics. Anyways, see ya'!
Accirax and I read the original P:EG story bible from Obelusk today and I’m genuinely so sad… I feel so sorry that his story ended up outside of his hands like this. I really loved the way he presented the characters and the themes. I wish both he and we were able to see what would come of his original ideas.
Does anyone know what socials he may use (/gen)? I want to let him know that I loved his story, even if he didn’t get the chance to fully tell it.
Hello every ! Deltarune Chapters 3 & 4 are upon us, and I want to toss my hat into the theory ring. Why so late into the wait time, you might ask? Why not give people more time to read and think about this theory before the chapter comes out? Well! Let me share a text conversation between my beloved sister @accirax and myself.
Accirax: Btw I was thinking earlier today. How much do you actually know/remember about Deltarune lore
Me: Lore? Not too much tbh
Accirax: Like do you remember the knight. Or the angel
Me: Vaguely but not well
Accirax: :o
Accirax: Well if you ever want a catch up on fandom/out-of-text stuff I can try my best to provide a recap :)
This recap – a thorough presentation on the leading Deltarune theories and known lore – occurred at approximately 5 PM PST today, the night before the chapter drop. It concluded at approximately 9 PM tonight, the night before chapter drop. I sit here at approximately 10 PM tonight, the night before chapter drop, hopelessly speedrunning the entire creation of this theory. I hope you will enjoy, but even if no one reads this version, it will be recorded for posterity.
Suffice it to say, this is going to be a bit of a thought dump of a theory, but I will try my best to streamline it as much as possible! I’m mostly doing this to make a coherent version of my thoughts headed into Chapter 3/4; I will very likely (hopefully) make some kind of updated or revised version sometime during the next hiatus.
With all that being said, please enjoy my speedrun of thoughts!
BIG SPOILER WARNING FOR EVERYTHING PRE-CHAPTER 3, INCLUDING SECRET TEXT, RELEASED IMAGES, NEWSLETTERS AND THE SPAMTON SWEEPSTAKES
ZERO: What of Chess Theory?
It is my understanding that Chess Theory is pretty well known across the fandom. But, in short, it’s the idea that, while King and Queen are representative of a deck of cards, they’re also part of an overarching chess motif throughout the story. Namely, that Deltarune’s hypothetical seven chapter structure could correspond to seven different actors in a game of chess: the king, the queen, the bishop, the knight, the rook, the pawn, and the player. These theories attribute certain characters to certain positions in this structure. Notably, the Knight of Deltarune lore is, of course, the knight.
Part of the theory as accirax described it is that the main antagonists of each chapter (i.e. King, Queen) are one set of chess pieces, and that the members of Kris’ class (minus one?) make up a set of eight pawns, all of which can theoretically be promoted into any other piece in the game. This is supported by Queen saying that she could theoretically create a Knight out of any Lightner. However, when hearing this, I thought of an interpretation allowing for two main sets of characters that I thought was more likely and, personally, more interesting: having two sets of pieces, black and white, in opposition.
Notably, I’m thinking about how this ties into the concept of Lightners and Darkners, and more notably, the Prophecy and the Roaring.
The Prophecy is that, when light and dark fall out of balance, destruction would be wrought upon the world, and a human (Kris), a monster (Susie), and a prince of the dark (Ralsei) would come together to banish the Angel’s Heaven.
Not-so-coincidentally, this is the exact same image we receive when Ralsei explains what would happen if there are too many fountains created: the Roaring.
What I believe (outlined in this theory video) is that the Prophecy happens when the light/dark balance is out of harmony in favor of light – meaning that there are too few dark fountains. Hence, we have to banish the Angel’s Heaven (which represents an overwhelming amount of light) in order to fix it and restore harmony. The Roaring is the opposite; when there are too many dark fountains, the Roaring occurs, sending things spiraling out of control the opposite direction. (I have no idea what's cooking with the Titans and all that, btw.)
This Prophecy/Roaring divide is very important for the theory I’m proposing, because I think that the Prophecy side (which I’ll be referring to as “Heaven”/white) and the Roaring side (which is Roaring/black) are the two sides on the chess board. This is heavily based on Queen specifically saying “the Roaring Knight” as opposed to just “the Knight” in her ending speech. I do believe both Chapter 1 and 2’s fountains were created by the Roaring Knight as opposed to the Heaven Knight, but we’ll get into that later.
As a general rule of thumb, I’m expecting that the player characters (usable in combat) are part of the Heaven team and that the antagonists are part of the Roaring team. I do think those lines can get a little blurry, but that’s the base premise behind side assignment.
I’m also going to speedrun a few other talking points/things that aren’t going to be included in my piece assignments up front to sort of shove them aside to begin with, listed out here:
I’m excluding Monster Kid, Tem and Snowy from consideration for these roles because they don’t have face sprites, something I consider essential for characters this major.
Characters who were heavily featured in Undertale aren’t included because I don’t believe they’ll ever be recruitable or main antagonists. I suspect their primary lore involvement at this time is housing the eggs you can get in the secret tree rooms.
Secret bosses aren’t included because I also don’t think they’ll ever become main antagonists or recruitable characters. More on them when I talk about elemental themes later.
So, without further ado, I’m going to start going chapter by chapter, and therefore, piece by piece. I’m organizing the pieces in (roughly) order of most to least valuable material in chess terms as I understand it because it SEEMS like that’s the order we’re going in. Also, I’m using this article’s explanations of chess piece symbolism so if it’s wrong, blame them. Let’s get to it!
ONE: Susie (Heaven King) & King (Roaring King)
King is obviously the king. This is because it is his name. I’ve also heard that some people likened his movement (or lack thereof) in the chapter to that of the king; he mostly stays as the final boss to defeat or lose to rather than scrambling across the board and making things happen. He commands through his armies rather than doing himself.
Susie may seem like the opposite; she’s always going and acting on her own, and she doesn’t have the charisma or social power to wield armies. However, Susie and King are quite paralleled in Chapter 1; the most notable part is when King, threatening Kris, says that “Quiet people piss [him] off,” a direct quote of what Susie said in the Lightworld at the beginning of the chapter. She does also exhibit leadership, given that she’s the one who teaches Ralsei how to act and always does what she wants rather than what others tell her. While it may look like rebellion, as Susie becomes more and more integrated into social groups, her willingness to make decisions and plow ahead turns her into a leader figure, considering everyone else is content to follow suit. And, notably, in Chapter 1, she actually is the one to call on an army – the true pacifist squad who instate Lancer as the ruler instead.
Obviously, Susie is probably the one saying this because she’s on screen and facing down against King, as well as being paralleled to him. But, it would’ve been really easy to have Ralsei to step in and comment on it, too; this moment is given entirely to Susie, Ralsei not even being on screen at the time the army floods in.
I also just generally think that the focus character of the chapter will be the one whose piece equates to that chapter’s boss, both in terms of creating parallels between pieces and because it just… makes sense, from a theme exploration standpoint. Which, of course, means that our next two are…
TWO: Noelle (Heaven Queen) and Queen (Roaring Queen)
I don’t think anyone would deny that Noelle is certainly the most focused-on character of Chapter 2. Even beyond the weird route, she’s Queen’s target, she undergoes a lot of character growth, and drops a lot of personal lore, both about her and Kris and about Dess. Queen is, obviously, the main antagonist of the section.
Queen is much more active than King, going around and doing everything across the chapter, fitting in with the piece movement idea mentioned in King’s part; the queen can move wherever it wants. Queen also strongly represents the concept of women in power, and encourages Noelle embrace this concept. She also seems to take on a motherly figure, likely paralleling Mayor Holiday as being a well-meaning but overly strict parental figure to her.
Noelle fits the queen in many ways. A lot of them are the ways in which Queen tries to convince her they’re similar. The most notable reason to me why Noelle has to be the queen is because, in chess, the queen is by far the most powerful piece. Noelle is both explicitly stated and shown to be extremely powerful, both through her access to Snowgrave and through her magic; her healing prayer, though costing the same amount as Ralsei’s, heals for the whole health bar rather than just 45 (or whatever your magic stats gain you), and sleep mist is just a better version of pacify.
Not that I think that was really in contention, but Noelle and Queen are both very solid on the Heaven/Roaring split as well. Noelle is associated with angels (and may be THE Angel) and other similarly light things constantly, her mom is the Mayor of the town back in the Lightner world, and she’s, y’know, a Lightner. Queen is a Darkner who is queen of a Darkworld kingdom and who wants to create infinite dark fountains so darkness can overtake all.
Is named Tenna based on some Spamton text you can find somewhere. I am also strongly assuming that he is the main antagonist of Chapter 3.
I’m slotting Rook before Bishop and Knight because it’s considered to be higher value and because I want to use the Bishop and the Knight later for specific reasons. So, given that I think Tenna is going to be the main antagonist and be pro-dark fountain, Roaring Rook is kinda there for them by default. I’d be interested to see how rook movement could be represented in a chapter; hopefully we’ll find out!
Berdly being here… might be surprising, considering that it’s highly plausible he might be. Y’know. Dead. However, I personally cannot comprehend a world in which Berdly isn’t one of the chess pieces — he’s too important even from this chapter alone to get stiffed like that — and if he’s dead, him being a central point of any chapter moving forward would be difficult! But, how is he supposed to be the focus character if he’s not even there…?
Well, let me explain the reasons why I am putting Berdly here. A lot of it is proximity to Chapter 2. We learned a lot about Berdly in Chapter 2, including his character motivations, some of his past, why he’s spent so much time with Noelle, and the fact that he can put aside his ego and genuinely care about Noelle and try to save her in Snowgrave. That means that he’s already sort of gotten a lot of focus in a chapter, so even if he isn’t AS present as, like, Susie and Noelle in Chapters 1 and 2 (HIGH bar), if he’s dwelled on (even off screen), he could ride his momentum. I also think that the symbolism of a rook as a defensive tower/something that protects fits in really well with how he views himself as being Noelle’s savior/needing to protect her.
Finally, there’s the weird route relevance numbers. As part of the Spamton Sweepstakes Silence Ending, users were able to receive a string of 5 numbers seemingly related to the relevancy of the weird route.
Only 2, 4 and 5 show up, with 2 being the most important based on sizing. However, if you highlight, you can actually find additional hidden numbers written in black.
The 3 is, like, exactly as big as the 2, meaning the weird route will somehow be as relevant in Chapter 3 as it was in Chapter 2… despite the fact that it doesn’t exist in Chapter 3???
My thoughts here are that, if Berdly is an important character in Chapter 3 (no matter what state he’s in), the effects of Chapter 2’s to-Snowgrave-or-not-to-Snowgrave would become immediately relevant in a major way. Like, even if Berdly who “died” or has a broken arm is somehow fine by the morning, he probably has some fucked up memories from that time frame that would change how he’d act around, like… Kris.
So, like, will Berdly show up in the Kris’ house dimension? Hard to say! I’d like to believe he will, though. I’m gonna miss him if he doesn’t show up much or at all :(
(I'm also realizing that I should say that the "where'd Berdly go" issue only exists on the weird route. In pacifist Berdly can just show up normal style.)
Alternately, I think you could say that Catti could be here. I’m not really sure about her symbolism leaning rook, but we also don’t know that much about her yet. She also has the added benefit of being Kris’ neighbor, which means that her showing up to the Kris’ house Darkworld in particular would make a lot of sense. I can’t really come up with any other affirmative reasons for her to be here though.
I also want to touch on two other things here: secret bosses and elemental pairings. Secret bosses (like Jevil and Spamton) who carry immense lore and give you cool items seem to be solid one-per-chapter, which means that we should be getting ones for Chapter 3 and 4! I’m mentioning this alongside elemental pairings because I think the two are connected.
INTERLUDE: Secret Bosses, Element Pairings and Undertale Souls
Elemental pairings are based on the elements that the creatures have in the recruits area back at the restaurant in Castletown. The types are the following:
The elemental pairing theory (and the image) are, to my understanding, made by JaruJaru. The elemental pairing theory is based on some lines in the code and based on Spamton’s response to this question:
The 22 elements seem to come in pairs. The ones we know concretely are the ones mentioned in this image (Puppet/Cat, Thunder/Light, Dark/Star, Death/Scythe) and Holy/Electric, which we know about because of the redacted Sky Mantle.
I mention this here because Seam mentions needing the Shadow Mantle to defeat the next secret boss (the holder of the third shadow crystal). If the Shadow Mantle has a similar effect to the redacted Sky Mantle, we can theorize that the Chapter 3 boss will use a specific element pairing that you’d need the Shadow Mantle’s resistance from — likely not Holy/Electric, because that would simply still be the Sky Mantle in the first place.
This is me kind of making stuff up on the lowkey, but here are my best guesses as to what the pairings might be:
The general principle I’m trying to use for these is “things that are connected in an overarching sense, but might seem to be different/opposite/interpretations going in different directions from each other at first glance.” My logic is based on the pairs that we do know:
Puppet/Cat: Puppets are lifeless unless manipulated and cannot act for themselves. Cats are known to be more solitary and self-oriented animals that defy even owner desires. However, both can be controlled/domesticated/"owned" by humans and have an affinity for string/yarn.
Thunder/Light: Thunder is sound, light is visual. However, they both relate to lightning striking, and they’re both things that are processed through the senses.
Dark/Star: Dark is dark. Star is bright. However, both are related to lighting and space and all that.
Death/Scythe: Death is death, commonly viewed with destruction and endings. A scythe is, technically, a tool used to grow crops (plant life). However, both are connected to the grim reaper.
Holy/Electric: Holy relates to religion and the divine. Electricity is more closely related to technology. However, both connect into a system of something much bigger (a religion or a power grid) that powers society around them.
Hopefully the pairings I made make enough sense; I’m not planning on going through all of them because I think it would take too long.
The fact that there are 11 pairings is bothering me; I can’t really come up with any nice way to divide or explain 11 pairings. I definitely think it’s possible we’ll get more elements as we meet more enemies or something, but this is my current lean.
However, I do currently think that each chapter may have a pairing that directly relates to it, with Chapter 2’s being the highlighted Puppet/Cat. On top of that, I think that, if I’ve distributed it correctly, Chapter 1’s would be Chaos/Puzzle, for the puzzle guys and Rouxls Kaard being originally from the first world, and for Mr. “Chaos Chaos” himself. Based on that, I think that each chapter would have one of the pairs be for the overall enemies in the world or a sort of miniboss (task manager type vibe) and one for the secret boss.
For the Shadow Mantle, I think the pair that might fit best would actually be Dark/Star, so I’m locking that in as my bet. Based on the fact that Puppet/Cat is listed with puppet first, it might mean the boss is listed first, making the secret boss Dark and the world Star?
I also think that each secret boss will pick a different soul color of the original Undertale fight mechanics, with Jevil being red (determination) and Spamton NEO being yellow (Justice). I’m theorizing that the Shadow Mantle will be used as a shield in the secret boss fight, meaning that it’ll use green (Kindness). A shield in a shield-based fight is certainly something that you need to survive against the fight. Shielding also fits in with the defense idea of a rook!
Anyways, interlude over. Back to the chess pieces!
FOUR: Catti and Jockington (Heaven Bishop(s)) & ??? (Roaring Bishop)
So, I get that it’s kinda weird to have two people on one slot, given that I’m, like… not doing that for any of the others. But
In fact,
Like, ALL of Jockington’s content is about how he and Catti are always together, no matter the world or the kind of world. To me, that feels like they are Very Easily Pairable. Plus, I’ve seen a promotional image that basically confirms Jockington being at least, like, relevant to some level in Chapter 4’s Darkworld, so it would make sense if this is the/a chapter that he’s actually there for.
Next is the question of the piece. The bishop or the knight could both go here, but, uh… I don't think it's gonna be the Knight. Like I feel like the chapter heavily featuring the Knight has to go as late as possible. I’m also a believer in the popular idea that, since Rudy says he wants to go to church “tomorrow” in Chapter 2, Chapter 4 will take place in the church. That means that it makes way too much sense to have Chapter 4, the church chapter, also be the bishop chapter.
As for Catti, I think the bishop suits her pretty well. Bishops are supposed to represent “wisdom, foresight, and indirect influence,” which I think works with her love of the occult and attempts to give Noelle charms and stuff. And Jockington… is also here, because he and Catti are an unbreakable duo!
I have no vibes on who the big bad or the secret boss will be here, but if it is a church-themed dark world, I’d bet on Holy/Electric pairing coming out to play here. As for soul color… maybe cyan (Patience)? That’s really just a vibe check, though.
I also suspect this is going to be a big chapter for Noelle. She did already have a big chapter, but, like, she’s pretty obviously an Important Character, so it checks out. Between stuff with her dad and the fact that her family seems decently religious and I’m theorizing this happens in Churchland, plus the holiday imagery on promo stuff… yeah.
(...Berdly could also be the bishop because… he believes he’s incredibly wise…?)
I want to asterisk this by saying that, while I do believe Gaster is the Roaring Knight and I think he’s going to be Highly Relevant come Chapter 5, I don’t know if we’ll necessarily fight him right here right now. Like, maybe we will, but I don’t know. In early Deltarune chapters, the main antagonists are pretty solidly confined to their one chapter, so thinking of ANY big picture characters being a main antagonist of a chapter feels weird. So, tossing that disclaimer out first.
Knight being in Chapter 5 is mostly just a positional thing from me. It’s headed into the first of what I’m expecting to be the endgame chapters (1 and 2 as setup, 3 and 4 as midgame, 5, 6 and 7 as endgame and conclusion), and if it IS the knight chapter, SOMETHING is going to happen. It’s also the last of the major chess pieces to be in my order, so unless we actively skip it, it seems like it should be here. We’ve also been getting enough info about whatever the hell Kris is cooking at the ends of chapters that, if we start really unpacking stuff by Chapter 5, I think we’d be ready.
So, let’s assume Chapter 5 is the knight chapter. At this point, I’m using the information we have about the chapter as clues in the broader mystery of who the Knight is. And, for the sake of what’s happened in canon so far, assume that the Roaring Knight is the one who made both the Chapters 1 and 2 fountains and that they’re the one people are talking about.
What does a knight do in chess? Well, it represents tactics and unconventional thinking, and it has extra agility with the ability to jump over other pieces and bypass them completely in its movement, something no other piece can do.
This extra movement is a big part of my reason for picking both Kris and Gaster for my Knight candidates. I think that, in the context of Deltarune, the ability to move through unmovable territory represents the ability to take actions outside of the player’s control, entirely offscreen. For Kris, this comes in the form of pulling out their soul and going to do who-knows-what while we can only watch or wonder. For Gaster, this comes in the form of basically never actually being on screen and instead existing only in the periphery of lore. This unique movement is why the knights are even more relevant plot-wise than the kings or queens; they have the ability to exist outside of the playing field, an incredibly potent ability in a game about fate and being stuck under the whims of a game.
Another fundamental ability of Knights within Deltarune seems to be their connection to fountains/being able to make fountains. Queen seems to think any Lightner is capable of creating a fountain, which means that this might not be an exclusive skill of theirs, but based on the dialogue and such, it seems like they’re the only ones who have created fountains. In that case, Kris is basically my Heaven Knight by default. What about Gaster, though?
Okay, this one is a bit more of a longshot. But, I think that, basically, the Core from Undertale is a sort of fountain.
Hear me out. The Core is Hotland’s power source, and fuels everything that happens there. It was created by a highly important lore figure (Gaster) and sits at a central point within the architecture of the central part of the world.
Fountains are a power source for the Darkners and their worlds around them; the worlds cannot exist without the fountains, and without a fountain that suits them, Darkners turn into stone. They’re created by a highly important lore figure (the Knight), and they always sit at a central point in the castle or castle equivalent of these worlds. See the similarities?
Notably, in this theory, Gaster falling into the Core and getting his essence scattered across a lot of different worlds totally makes sense, if the Core basically diffused his soul across what would be several different fountains. The dark, darker yet darker would relate to the Dark Fountains he learns how to create and the Darkworld in general, in contrast to the heat and light that the Core generates.
As sort of an aside, I think it’s really interesting that in the game with the central hot thing (the Core) you fast travel via water (Riverperson), but in the game with the central water thing (Fountains), you fast travel via hot thing (the doors with the fire underneath them). Dimensional movement through these methods? Gaster and Sans both being characters with access to both worlds? It’s more likely than you think.
I also think there are a lot of cool parallels that can be made between Gaster and Kris. Kris is the character who seems pretty burdened by the pressure of being the protagonist and by being under the player’s influence all the time. Meanwhile, Gaster is, like, the character who’s least under our control. Hell, assuming he’s the one in the Goner maker, he literally gets to take us through a whole series of options menus and then says “lol who cares!” Kris could never.
In terms of elemental pair, secret boss, location of fountain… I’ve got basically nothing. The only thing I have to contribute here is that I think the double doors inside of Town Hall that lead to the Mayor’s office are going to become a relevant set of double doors in one of the later chapters. I feel like we gotta.
Anyways, hopefully that made sense! Coining who the Roaring Knight is is, like, one of the biggest mysteries out there right now, so there’s a lot to think about. Now, onto:
SIX: Ralsei (Heaven Pawn) & Dess (Roaring Pawn)
Who is Heaven and who is Roaring can VERY easily be flipped. I am still unsure if I’ve even designated these correctly for what I think.
Anyways, pawns stand for sacrifice, perseverance and ambition. They’re also, y’know, pawns, and are thought to be smaller pieces in a bigger plan, meant to serve their role even if it results in their demise. They’re typically not considered very powerful.
Ralsei fits the idea of a pawn very well. He’s very clearly operating in accordance with the whims of… fate? What Kris wants? The video game??? There are a lot of screenshots out there of Ralsei being suspiciously aware of what’s going to happen and what’s “supposed” to happen, and I definitely think that ties in here. Ralsei is just playing his part in his goal to close the fountains that risk causing the Roaring, which is why I decided he had to be on the Heaven side. He doesn’t want to fight in favor of the Roaring, so he belongs here. Plus, if the Heaven side is the playable character side, then, like… Ralsei is definitely one of those.
Dess took a while for me to settle on, but I think it makes the most sense. She seems to be at the mercy of… whatever lore thing caused her to disappear in the first place, and she may very well be a smaller part in a much bigger plan. Based on her pleas for help, it’s easy to assume she might be less powerful (although I’m hesitant to fully believe that, considering I’d believe Noelle might do that in her situation too, lol).
The main thing that I like about both of these picks for pawns, though, is that pawns’ goals are different from most pieces’. While most chess pieces are focused on capturing the opponents’ pieces, pawns are most powerful when they’re questing to get across the board. I think this idea of “get to the other side” works really well for Ralsei, a Darkner who’s firmly on the Heaven team and invites his teammates back into the Darkworld, and Dess, a Lightner who may have gotten displaced and lost in the Darkworld and is trying to find her way back.
Ralsei as a main antagonist of a chapter is lowkey kinda crazy, but also, like… I believe it. Something weird’s going on with that guy. Or, I guess, based on the side assignments, it would be Dess…? Maybe, like, a “Dess is corrupted and you have to rescue her” kind of thing. Or maybe there’ll be someone else! Who’s to say!
SEVEN: You (Heaven Player) and Toby Fox (Roaring Player)
DISCLAIMER: I do not think that Toby Fox will be the seventh main antagonist in-game. I guess it could be, like, Annoying Dog or something, but somehow I doubt it.
The player is kind of a weird one to represent in-game, but suffice it to say that I basically think this chapter will come down to the concept of fighting fate itself. Fate, like what the player playing the game wants and what the writer/developer decided ahead of time as the one true ending.
The antagonist could be the egg guy, if that’s not one of the characters already mentioned. It could be Image_Friend. It could be Gaster, if someone else stands in for his main antagonist slot in Chapter 5. Hell, it could be ICE-E! I have no idea. The point is, this is thematically the struggle that the chapter would center around.
And, uh… I have no idea how it would end! I think it’s way too early to have any kind of idea about that. My ideas have gotten significantly less concrete as we progress through the chapters. Funny how that happens.
CONCLUSION
Thank you so much if you read all the way through this theory! I’m fully expecting to get hard disproved on at least like a quarter of this within the next four hours, but how exciting is it that we might have those kinds of answers so soon? And, it was really fun to actually dive into the lore and try to figure out what I thought was most likely of the outcomes. If anyone has any questions or wants to talk about any points of the theory, please feel free to reach out in any way! I want to get to know you guys :)
To go out on a fun point, I’m going to try to go crazy just fully predicting the fountain location, elemental pairing, and soul color for the secret boss for all of the remaining chapters :)
Chapter 3: Rook, Berdly/Tenna, Kris’ house, Dark/Star, Green
Chapter 4: Bishop, Catti and Jockington/???, The Church, Holy/Electric, Cyan
Chapter 5: Knight, Kris/Gaster, The Hospital, Death/Scythe, Orange
Chapter 6: Pawn, Ralsei/Dess, The Mayor’s Office, Color/Jewel, Blue
Chapter 7: Player, You/Toby Fox, The Bunker, Heart/Order, Purple
Anyways, have lots of fun everyone!! I’m excited to be playing soon :D
Have your rankings on who will come back changed now that episode 13 is out?
(for context, this is about my ranking of most likely eliminated contestants to return in Disventure Camp)
In short, yes, 100% absolutely, for reasons I'll discuss under the cut to hide spoilers from DC4 Episode 13.
...So I didn't know that there would be two returning players--
By the way, I think that two returning players finally puts us at the point where episode count evens out for a clear path forward. If we assume that Episode 14 will not only not eliminate anyone, but instead bring our cast size back up to 12 from 10, it would take 11 episodes to distill us down to one winner. (This is assuming that, like DC2 and DCAS, the finale will be split into two episodes that go 3->2 and 2->1.) 14+11=25 episodes, plus an extra one that will probably be used as a second Loser's Motel-esque episode closer to the finale. Hence, the onslaught of non-elim episodes seems to finally be coming to an end! Know that, if your fave gets eliminated now, they'll be gone for good.
But, back to the task at hand! Obviously, things have the potential to change when bringing back two contestants instead of one. But honestly, what's more relevant to me is the extra information that we've gleaned from a glimpse at the daily lives of the eliminated players on the Edge of Extinction... I mean, "Rescue Island."
Relevant info ranges from new bonds that players have made with people they may not have even met before, whose plot arcs seem like they were getting either set up or shot down, and even who was getting focused upon and who was getting more sidelined. (Although, that last one is a bit of a double-edged sword, as getting focus could mean that they're getting everyone re-invested in your return, or that this is your last hurrah.) The stage has been set for a double return, and I'm taking it upon myself to examine the stagecraft to refresh my predictions.
This will once again be a ranking, although a bit different than the last. With 8 eliminated contestants, there are 28 possible pairings to consider. While that number isn't unmanageable, I would rather not have to write 28 separate entries in this follow-up, and I doubt you would really want to watch me ponder the minute distinctions between Amelie + Marissa and Amelie + Ivy anyways. Therefore, this will be a simple top 5 of the most likely duos I see making a return to the game. If the true combo is one that I don't wind up mentioning, then, I guess we can just say that I failed, lol. Also, because I'm only doing 1-5, I don't think it makes sense to start from #5 and work my way up. Instead, we'll be starting with my pairing #1, which is...
#1: Diego + Tristan
Are people surprised to see that Ted has fallen out of my #1 contenders? Well, I did just combine my #2 and #3 contenders, so it's not too much of a shakeup. I'm, like, 80% certain now that, given the context of last episode, Diego and Tristan will soon be back in the game.
Diego had just about the perfect episode to set up for a return to the competition. On top of him not showing that he's moved past whatever he and Spencer had together, attention was drawn multiple times to the fact that he hasn't gotten over what happened, and typically refuses to even acknowledge it. Showing off Diego's still-open wounds similarly reinvigorates our interest in seeing the drama between him and Spencer play out. And, while there's still potentially time for that story to be concluded outside of the competition, it now feels like big enough of an issue that it should be handled in the main story moving forward (especially in the wake of Spencer just revealing his continued guilt over what happened to Logan as well).
Speaking of Spencer and Logan, what of the shipping side of things? Have I backtracked on the prospect of logancer being canon kings? Ehhhh, sort of, but not really. Notably, Trevor's comments in the episode recap made me even more certain that romance between Logan and Spencer will be relevant to the season somehow.
(Although, it's possible that could just be Trevor being fruity lol)
If Diego does come back, though, it's possible that we could be face to face once again with our old friend (or, foe?), the love triangle. My hesitance now comes from being less sure if it would be a diencer endgame or a logancer endgame. I could totally see a world where Logan's feelings are one-sided and/or Logan and Spencer decide that they're just better off friends, but I can also see one where, over the course of the season, Diego comes to realize that he and Spencer aren't a good match for each other, and ultimately supports Spencer being with Logan instead.
In a based world, Diego's clear physical attraction to Logan as highlighted in his exit interview could be a hint towards a poly Diego/Spencer/Logan relationship emerging. However, given how ONC handled huntessally, I'm hesitant to believe that that would ever happen.
While perhaps not as good as Diego's, Tristan also had a good episode to support their return. The main argument I can see against Tristan coming back now is that they got so much focus in this returnee episode-- focus that ONC might have placed elsewhere if we're about to get a bunch more Tristan content in the series proper anyways. However, Tristan is a fan favorite (and probably a writer favorite) character who likely would have merited a lot of content anyways, and their reunion with Ivy was something that would have been weird to skip over, especially with Ivy sort of serving as this episode's POV character.
However, beyond what I already outlined in my prior post about how Tristan coming back into the competition would make sense, my sister (@venus-is-thinking) highlighted some logic that made me really high on Tristan's chances.
We all know that Tristan is very conflict-averse, and easily gets uncomfortable when others are arguing. We were even reminded of that in Episode 13 with Amelie and Emily, who are shown on the thumbnail. Therefore, bringing Tristan back into the fold when their former bestie Zaid is absolutely furious at their former crush Benji opens up a ton of interesting opportunities to explore Tristan's character and help them grow. Making a vibe tribe between a bunch of strangers is one thing, but reestablishing that vibe when people are already mad at each other is another entirely. I think this would be excellent timing for a Tristan return, which is why I'm rooting for it to happen.
Also, to the extent that ONC would want the two returning contestants to have at least a bit of a dynamic between each other, the fact that Tristan was ultimately the one to hug and comfort Diego near the end of the episode felt like it may have been very intentional foreshadowing that Tristan will Diego interpret his feelings in the future. That can't happen if only one of them comes back into the game, so let's just bring both of them back!
#2: Alessio + Ted
From red to blue, here's #2! Wow, I should be a poet. Or, perhaps, a musician...?
I imagine I wasn't the only one surprised to see such an emphasis placed on Alessio and Ted's dynamic throughout this episode. I mean, I guess the two of them were in an alliance (kind of) once upon a time, but so much more focus was placed on Alessio's bond with Logan that I genuinely forgot that was the case. Still, I understand why the writers did it: Alessio and Ted have a lot of chemistry with each other. Enough chemistry, perhaps, to justify their return to the competition...?
Ted's reasons are about the same as I last laid them out. Yes, we got a bit more information (or at least, information more directly stated) about Ted's insecurities, and how he feels like his life lacks a purpose other than gambling. However, when Lynda had the same crisis of faith (about being ashamed that she was only a housewife), even if she didn't win, her accomplishments were highlighted by Richard during her elimination, and Marissa prior to that.
To my memory, no one has ever done the same for Ted. Therefore, without any further story content, Ted is just left feeling like a loser, which is a pretty unprecedented route for DC-- unless the character is as obviously evil as Riya or Yul. Even Fiore got a happy ending eventually! From the beginning, I think Ted was meant to be at least somewhat rootable. I'd think he's bound to get a confidence boost someday.
Meanwhile, Alessio. Now that we've gone into even further detail about Alessio's deal-- how the high expectations of his artistic family have caused him to lose faith in his abilities and worth in general, not just to lack inspiration-- it really seems like Alessio's character could be wrapped. Him playing the guitar and singing at the end of the episode could prove that Alessio has, once again, found inspiration, and the drive to keep being a creator, despite his fears.
However, that's kinda what I thought last time, and then Alessio came back swinging with more content than I thought was there! He's a man of many surprises, so he could surprise us yet with reentry into the game.
In terms of their dynamic together, like I said, this episode did a great job of making me care about Alessio and Ted's dynamic should the show want there to be one between the two returning players. Because Alessio and Ted weren't particularly close during their time on the Blue team (hell, Alessio even voted for Ted on his way out), the players still in the game probably wouldn't expect for the two of them to be working together. Therefore, I think it could be fun if they had a secret alliance with each other where they could give each other recon. For instance, maybe Alessio could reconnect with Logan and Richard and tell Ted what's going on there, while Ted schmoozes with the former Red Team and gives Alessio the deets. They could be the most undercover duo this game has ever seen! (Now, where have I heard that one before...? /ref)
#3: Ted + Tristan
Okay, now this one is just me shamelessly smashing together my top two picks from before Episode 13. You've already seen my arguments for why I think Ted and Tristan could be good returnees (from before and after e13), so I won't go through it again. Instead, let me argue against myself for why I don't think that my former two contenders will be the selection anymore.
Issue #1: Diego. And, to a lesser extent, Alessio. While I think that any further content for Alessio is potentially skippable, Diego is now in a position where it might be tricky to conclude his arc in just four more episodes. (Any characters who don't return will probably only be seen in next episode's challenge, the other LM episode, and Finale pt 1 and 2). Not choosing to include Diego might wind up fumbling his character a little, which would suck.
Issue #2: Ted and Tristan have little to no connection to each other. Speaking of, perhaps I should elaborate on the whole concept of "the returning players having a dynamic."
Technically, there's nothing wrong with having two characters come back to the game who aren't connected to each other. In fact, one could argue that it's better, because it would imply that the characters would affect a greater range of players still in the game. For instance, even though Marissa and Lynda have a great dynamic with each other, they would both be very tied to Anastasia/the former girls' alliance upon their return, leaving the dynamics of the red team largely unaffected by the returnee challenge.
However, if handled properly, I think it's better to have the characters be at least slightly connected to one another. First off, it's a representation of the time that's passed at Rescue Island. In real life, Tristan and Ted would have been living together with only a few other people for about 2 weeks before reentering the game, so it would be weird if they acted like they basically didn't know each other at all in the game itself. It would diminish the impact of Rescue Island as a twist and institution.
Secondly, it would just feel... random. My fear with Tristan and Ted returning is that the whole thing would just feel like, "man, we really can't decide whether we want to bring back Tristan or Ted... so what if we just brought back both?!" It's an issue that might not even bother people other than me, but in my eyes, pulling a move like that would be more of an instance of just wanting to restore a previous save state of the game than to truly build something new. Agree or not, that's what I mean when I talk about returnee characters having a dynamic.
#4: Ted + Diego
Logistically, this one should at least be above Ted + Tristan, because I think that Ted and Diego are the two characters who have the best argument to currently facing unsatisfying endings.
However... I dunno, I just don't vibe with this being the returning pair. Maybe it's just my bias of liking Tristan more than Diego, or maybe it's that these two would both sorta gravitate towards the Spencer/Logan pair. Although, Diego would certainly interact with Hannah, at least, as well. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? It kinda ruins the Hannah curse plotline, but so does, like, anyone eliminated from Red returning.
For whatever reason, I just don't see this pairing as much as I do the three above it. However, it does have most-if-not-all of the benefits of both a Ted return and a Diego return, which certainly makes it a worthwhile pair. Perhaps I'll be eating my words two weeks from now, much like Diego with his fruit.
#5: Ted + Lynda
It's very funny to me that I've put Ted in all of my top 5 combinations except for the one that I actually think is most likely to happen. That's just how the cards were stacked, I suppose. Ted's a gambler; he'll understand.
Advantages of Lynda returning? Like I said in the other post, it would give her a better chance to fully prove herself, and have a unique plotline, to say the least, of always coming back from the brink of disaster. If she gets to come back with Ted, it would be interesting to see how Richard would react. I also just like the dynamic between her and Ted, which I mentioned before.
I'll stop beating around the bush, though; I don't really think this is going to happen. There are still a lot of problems with Lynda returning, and the capstone she got with Marissa this episode felt like a suitable end to her character. The fact that she didn't talk much with Ted this episode also didn't seem great for their chances of returning together. I was just kinda struggling for a fifth pairing, and thought this would be more interesting (and probably more likely?) than just saying, "okay, here's Alessio + Tristan!"
So, those are my new choices for which pair I think will ride on the Carnival of Chaos once again. I also want to give a shoutout to Tristan + Ivy, which I think is a uniquely terrible pairing to come back. Defusing Zaid's anger that hard would be both awful for the story and absolutely hilarious.
Can't wait to be totally wrong again. Thanks for the ask!
POTENTIALLY SPOILERY EDIT:
Okay I've been watching Silly Billy's episode 13 reaction now and he really makes it sound like neither Ted or Alessio is returning-- and especially not with each other. So... Tristan/Diego sweep!!! or it's secretly like Marissa/Ivy or whatever lmao
I always love to read what you think could happen. My only big problem with these specific predictions is, I can't really see Tristan coming back in any way. I'm really bad at this stuff, but I still want to give my two cents, so here.
It's not a "who still has open plots and who doesn't" but rather a "who can get new plots without having their coming back ruining anything that happened in the first half of the season".
Ivy and Tristan, I can't see them back because of what you said about Tris in your previous post, they would undermine Zaid's possible (not certain though) solo run and character development -and maybe Benji's, in Tristan's case.
Same goes for Marissa with Anastasia, as much as I love both of them.
Lynda already got her chance and that's it, plus again, it would undermine Anastasia's revenge making it null.
Alessio unironically has more chances to create some new content without undermining anything that happened until now than all the people above, I think. But still, he got a good development in the few episodes he got, so I don't really know.
Amelie, she's a potential instigator of conflict within the remaining cast with some good potential -if Hannah gets eliminated in the next few episodes, so that she doesn't have a moral per to remind her how to act.
Same goes for Ted, right now I would easily lump them together as the big instigators, since we're short an antagonist at the moment, and if Spencer is getting a redemption like it looks like, he won't be able to fulfill that role anymore.
Of course there still are Jade and Isabel as potential villains, but I don't think the two of them alone can do much going forward, even with the idol, especially if Hannah finally changes their mind about them and Spencer and Jade decide to detach themselves from each other once and for all.
And Diego, he is the obvious choice, clearly. He's got a good motivation, some open plots to deal with and so on. Still, the stuff with Spencer might very well be concluded with a short conversation during the comeback challenge itself, if the eliminated contestants get to meet those still in the game.
So that's it. Everyone has their good pros and their cons. As I said, I'm bad at this prediction stuff and I don't have a specific idea for who's actually coming back, this is just what I think about what we've got for now.
Thank you for the compliment, and for sharing your thoughts on how you think this episode is going to play out! You raise some good points that perfectly illustrate why this is an intriguing thought exercise to run in the first place. I agree that everyone feels like they have at least some sort of issue they would raise upon their return, other than maybe Diego.
(Although, I still don't think that Diego is a 100% lock for one of the two spots given that I don't think that the inverse is true; that it not bringing Diego back would cause any problems too massive if handled correctly. And Diego coming back has the potential to make Spencer's guilt arc weird, which is at least a very minor flaw.)
However, while I do think that Tristan's return would ruin Zaid's vengeance/lone wolf arc on paper, I think there are ways to keep it going even with Tristan back in the game. It was a little hard for me to explain with words, so I decided to sketch out my ideas instead.
(I don't have any practice writing these guys ;-;)
Basically, if Tristan quickly sides with Benji in Zaid and Benji's disagreement, I think Zaid's arc could still continue with minimal issue if it went down something like this.
Then again, it seems like the popular opinion is that it'll be Ted and Diego who return to the game, so it's probably just those two and I'm the weird one for thinking otherwise :P thanks again!
Hello hello! #1 Tristan/Diego comeback believer Venus breaking accidental tumblr hiatus (whoops) to point out some cool details I noticed in the intro that could suggest that I'm right about these two!
So, during the Season 4 intro, like most Disventure Camp intros, we see all the characters having little mini interactions with some of the people they're notably linked to during the season. These groups are:
Derek, Trevor & Emily (if you count them)
Alessio & Logan
Amelie, Benji & Hannah
Anastasia & Marissa
Richard, Ted & Lynda
Natalia & Isabel
Spencer, Diego & Jade
Zaid, Tristan & Ivy
These all make sense for the season we've seen so far, so I don't think we can learn much about who's paired with who. If, say, Alessio and Ted did come back together, that wouldn't want to be in the intro because 1) spoilers and 2) this combination of characters already intuitively makes sense for what we see in the early season.
However, it's in these little interactions that I found an interesting note.
In both Diego and Tristan's segments, they appear on camera, fully leave the frame, and come back into frame. No one else in the intro does this; it's only these two.
This is what happens in Diego's:
Diego stays in more or less the same position from when he's left behind to when he comes back. However, he first leaves the scene because Spencer is backing away from him nervously-- sort of like how he left the game (the first time?) because Spencer grew wary of getting too close to Diego and ran away from his feelings.
If Diego does come back, this could potentially suggest that Spencer is somewhat upset to see him again-- maybe because he worries that an old ally he cast aside will ruin his game? Maybe because it means he has to confront what he did? Maybe it's because of something that happens with Logan! Who's to say.
As for Tristan:
Tristan ducks off screen unceremoniously, which makes sense given that (from what I remember) they kinda just got axed to split the trio up.
The fact that Zaid and Ivy seem to be emphasized more as a couple in Tristan's absence here could just be that the team wanted to show Zaid and Ivy being couple-y in the intro but it was weird with Tristan there, but I also think it would make a lot of sense with the game implications. Once Tristan left, the two grew closer as a couple and were targeted as a couple, resulting in Ivy's elimination from the game. Now, Tristan returns between the two; they helped Ivy in the edge of extinction episode, and they're going to talk to Zaid once they're back in the game. They bridge the gap between the two of them when they aren't as physically close to each other anymore.
For whatever it's worth, Diego and Tristan's segments are also last in the intro. I don't really think that matters too much, though.
Anyways, I definitely don't think this is conclusive and could very well be confirmation bias, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case this is a cool and subtle detail the storyboarders decided to toss in! I'm excited to see who it'll be :D
DRDT Chapter 2 Text Animatic: Hold My Place in Heaven by Saint Motel
Hello everyone! I'm not sure how intuitive this concept is, so I'll explain it a little.
Basically, I like to imagine animatics to various songs, but I don't have the time nor skill to actually create them, so I just envision them through the magic of Google Docs tables with text in them.
Recently, I was listening to a new Saint Motel song -- Hold My Place in Heaven -- and I thought it fit DRDT Chapter 2 super well! So, I decided to share the end result. Hope you enjoy :)
Hold My Place in Heaven (Saint Motel) Text Animatic Lyrics Image/Action Ciao señora, away from me Levi walks in on Eden making breakfast, b
A genuine question for you all: as I've mentioned in a few posts now, @venus-is-thinking and I have been working on a very long analysis/review regarding Project: Eden's Garden's first chapter. To be completely transparent, there are a few parts of the chapter that we thought could be improved, which we occasionally remarked upon throughout the essay.
The reason why we did so is because we care a lot about the art of crafting a fangan, have invested much of our time discussing with each other what we believe makes a good fangan narrative, and wanted to share some of that speculation with you guys (and the team, should they ever find the post and choose to read it). We were attempting to show our passion for both P:EG and fangans as a whole by investing the time to thoroughly analyze how P:EG both succeeded and struggled in telling its story, respecting the project in the same way we would a fully licensed game, through the lens of our opinions.
However, we have also recently seen (or at least, recently seen brought to attention) an uptick of so-called "fans" being cruel to unpaid, passionate fancreators (of fangans or otherwise). Many good points have been raised about how, as a fangan is essentially a fanfic, it's not fair to walk up to them and criticize them in the same way you would a published novel or triple-A game. A creator sharing the fruits of their passion might not necessarily want to receive industry-style criticism on their free-time hobby.
The last thing either of us wants to do is incite drama or a barrage of cruel commentary towards members of the community that we love. So, again-- as genuinely as I can communicate through this text box--
Should We Post Our Analysis?
yes; if you have good intentions critique is very helpful
no; avoid potentially hurting small creators at all costs
it's nuanced (please explain your stance in the comments)
i don't care/see results
Voting ended onJan 27, 2025
I would include the option of posting only the positive parts of the analysis, but if we can only post half of our opinion we would rather not post it at all. I hope you can understand that stance. And thank you for reading! <3
Howdy everybody! Accirax and I just finished replaying the prologue and are now doing predictions game posts for Project: Eden's Garden (don't worry we haven't started chapter 1 yet). If you don't know what the predictions game is, we explained it pretty thoroughly in this post.
As Accirax said in her partner post, because P:EG has said they aren't doing a double kill in chapter 3, we decided our standard ruling would be to add a bonus survivor as a result of only killing one victim in chapter 3. This may not be what happens, and in fact, I'd suspect we'll probably get an extra death in another chapter for one reason or another instead, but this was the simplest way to change the format.
Also, please note that Accirax and I said we'd be keeping these brief. I've been betrayed and mine are now going to be short. My bad. I don't have a lot to say about some of these as a lot are based on vibes or me running out of slots, so I can't write paragraphs about the logic :')
Anyways! Here we go!
Grace as Chapter 1 Victim
I think there are a lot of options for the Chapter 1 victim who, if they make it past that slot, have the potential to go long game. Grace is one such character; I view Cassidy, Toshiko and high key also Eva and Wolfgang this way. As such, especially with how points work, it was really difficult to figure out who to stick in the early game instead of the late game.
I eventually settled on Grace for 2 reasons:
I think her most obvious/likely potential character arc is about learning that she needs to work with others instead of against them, and that arc feels a bit too similar to what I expect both Eva's and Damon's arcs to be like.
I don't get Grace. This might be a me problem, but I have a hard time figuring out how she fits into the cast or the themes in general. I feel like most conversations/conversational moments, she's either 100% the main focus or 100% not important, and that kind of character is really hard to write for an extended period of time without dominating the story.
I could definitely see Grace making it far or even surviving though. I initially had her flipped with Toshiko; I think Toshiko as a first victim would also make a lot of sense (copy/paste accirax's Toshiko first victim if you want an explanation), but I went with this because it feels more intuitively right in my gut.
Jean as Chapter 1 Killer
Originally based on Accirax's theory, but wow, that man did himself no favors in the prologue when I looked at him more suspiciously. He's sort of a joke character, but he insists he's more than that. He seems to have some level of anger issues, and he's already mentioned wanting to leave a bunch. This just makes sense to me. Plus, I think the first chapter will probably affirm Wolfgang's views (I think Eva/Wolfgang/Damon are all going to make late game based on the logos/ethos/pathos thing we got going on), so man kills woman makes sense.
Desmond as Chapter 2 Victim
Truly I have no idea. Desmond strikes me as a Chapter 2-4 kind of guy, and this is where he fit best.
Eloise as Chapter 2 Killer
Accirax and I have been joking about Eloise Chapter 2 Killer since her introduction, just because she's so very "I want to leave because I miss my family," which is usually a pretty Chapter 2 Killer sentiment. At this point I'd be betraying myself NOT to put her here, so here she stays lol
Ingrid as Chapter 3 Victim (where is my yellow :( )
Ingrid has INSANE Chapter 3 energy to me. I think it's the "generally nice person with a gimmick, but seems to be largely centered around that gimmick and therefore might not survive the whole time"? Idk, she was a lock here for me.
Cassidy as Chapter 3 Killer
Cassidy is THE highest variance character to me. I truly feel like she could take any slot and I'd be like, "yeah, tracks." I guess that's why she ended up in the middle.
My logic here is kinda flawed, 'cause I was thinking that Chapter 3 killers are usually kinda gaming, but then I realized that was related to double kills which... isn't happening. Whatever. She stays here.
Jett as Chapter 4 Victim
I REALLY considered flipping Jett and Mark. I don't feel like they're both gonna make it all the way, which I guess means I think one dies one survives? Obviously there are lots of ways to break that mold, but the two of them particularly give me that vibe. I ended up choosing Jett to die both because I already had a different comic relief character surviving and because I feel like Mark gives special little guy energy (a term accirax and I use for "creator's favorite lil guy").
Imagine Mark and Jett aren't even notably connected. Would that be fucked up or what?
Diana as Chapter 4 Killer
I hate this one. She just kinda ended up here. I don't like Diana as a killer. I first had her as Chapter 4 victim, but the my gender balancing got weird, and now she's here. I'm suffering.
Wolfgang as Chapter 5 Victim
Idk man. He feels like a late game antag to me, but I also didn't really think he was gonna survive, so I kinda put him here by default. I don't even really necessarily feel like they're gonna put him in the classic antag slot, I just didn't have any better ideas.
Ulysses as Chapter 5 Killer
I feel like Ulysses is cooking something, so I wanted to lean him late game, although like Desmond, I think he only has a slightly better Chapter 3-5 range to me rather than 2-4. and I could even see Chapter 2 without being too surprised. I also thought he had the potential to be a late game killer (just on vibes), so he took one.
Please know that, after seeing Accirax's, I would switch Ulysses to Chapter 4 Killer and steal her Chapter 5 of Wolfgang kills Diana for the exact same logic. It's smarter and more satisfying than me putting my people in slots just because.
Eva as Mastermind (Survivor)
The idea of Eva as the mastermind for me came up when I was trying to figure out the payoff of Eva being the Ultimate Liar, because it feels very important. I think that the fact that she is NOT ethos plays into this (people, in fact, actively trust her less because of who they know her to be), but that didn't feel like enough for me. I'm also assuming she's Damon's support character, but that doesn't necessarily tie into her talent itself.
I started to like the idea that Damon and Eva become genuinely really close and Damon defends her, saying that just because she's the Ultimate Liar doesn't mean you should disregard everything she says. Then, in Chapter 6, she's figured out as the mastermind, and she's like, I still am the Ultimate Liar. IMO it'd be fun if that's also kind of a lie (and she still does genuinely care about Damon at last to some extent), but it could go either way. Whether or not she's redeemed would depend on what the story themes are exactly, which I'm not feeling like I can predict right now. I'd lean redeemed...?
Damon as Survivor
Protags can die, but Damon really doesn't strike me as one of those. I feel like he has a lot of clear reasons to be the protagonist (talent, being set up as Wolfgang's opposition, nonstandard reactions/opinions to what's going on), and he also seems to have some kind of important complex about talent that we'll definitely be exploring. I also don't know who'd replace him as pathos, or as protag. I feel pretty comfortable with this one.
Kai as Survivor
Ever since I learned that the devs ship Kaimon I see too much special little guy in Kai for him to die early. Which is good, because he's one of my favorites and I was worried about him dying instantly the first time I played the prologue!
I think he'd make a good and interesting survivor, he has a good, varied arc to go through, and I just know he has some tragic habits or secrets or something to unveil.
Toshiko as Survivor
Mentioned already in Grace's section. She could really go either way to me, but I feel like they're having too much fun with her to cut her so early. I really hope we get to see her try to actually matchmake some characters in-killing game, I haven't seen that before (don't worry Whit I love you anyway).
I also think that the fact that she's been so quiet since the first "body discovery" might be a good sign? If she starts that quiet, we'll presumably get to hear her speak up someday, which means she needs time. Besides, who wants to kill the kid? (Ignore that there are also other minors.)
Mark as Survivor
Mentioned in Jett's section, I was picking one of them. He gives me the vibes that he's cooking something and that the writers enjoy writing him, and that's good enough for me.
Wenona as Survivor
As my last survivor pick, I figured I should pick a woman to balance it out, especially with Eva as the mastermind. I think Wenona has decently late game vibes. I'm still not really sure what her deal is (billionaire comes with the connotation of exploiting others to me, but it also seems like she might have been making products that are for the greater good, like something with agriculture I think was mentioned?). I also think that, as one of the ones with the most obvious "real" talent, she might be interesting to keep around for Damon's sake for a while.
Conclusion
Hope you enjoyed my rambles! I have no idea what's going on. See you after Chapter 1 :)
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