nonbinary cishet

Robots are cool. | Queer | Maverique | they/them

[odddaysgeorge]

Nonbinary person: nonbinary genders are genders

Tumblr goon: oh so you believe in a gender trinary? You wanna be fetishized by cishets? You think all nb people are the same? Idiot. I’m enlightened enough to know there’s infinite diversity among nbs. For example, half of them are men and the other half are women

[prokopetz]

Where else on the internet might we find you, in case tumblr implodes?

I’m working on it. It’s tough to pin down a suitable platform; Twitter’s not a good fit for my output – even this post wouldn’t fit! – and Facebook demands too much personal information for my liking, so I’d have to range further afield. Maybe if Pillowfort ever gets itself sorted; my username there’s the same as my username here (and I have a bucketful of spare invites if anyone wants one), but I haven’t posted there much owing to their ongoing technical growing pains.

[find-me-at-x-blog]

It’s an exaggeration to say “ongoing,” which this was the first major issue they’ve experienced in the nearly two years online…and even that they could’ve rolled the dice on and probably been fine-ish on. But then, we’d be right back to literally this exact bullshit of kicking the can down the road.

That said, DW’s been seeing the biggest uptick in user activity since it opened. I may just fire up my imported LJ blog there and try to find old muturals to reconnect with there in the meantime.

[prokopetz]

Nah, Pillowfort has had plenty of teething issues if you’ve been paying attention – this is just the only recent one to involve significant downtime. At the time of this writing they’re already on to the next crisis: apparently, in spite of their minimal-censorship commitment, they literally didn’t notice until just now that the .io TLD’s domain registry rules stipulate that “[…] no .IO domain may be used, directly or indirectly, for any purpose that is sexual or pornographic or that is against the statutory laws of any Nation” (ref). Now they’re going to have to get a whole new domain!

(It’s the “against the statutory laws of any Nation” clause that’s problematic more than the porn clause; a strict reading could suggest that anyone using a .io domain is obliged to enforce the censorship policies of literally every country on Earth, should someone choose to complain about it. It’ll be interesting to see how vigorously the domain registrar enforces that.)

[cremia-deactivated20210626]

‘ does anyone remember that post going around about how aphobes kept stereotyping aromantic heterosexual people as men and heteroromantic asexual people as women ‘

YOURE ALL STRAIGHT? NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOU STRAIGHT PEOPLE  

[bihets]

oh hey that’s my post! 1. im bi, my url literally has ‘bi’ in it like you have no excuse for not knowing that, that’s just straight up intellectual dishonesty

2. the point is ‘hey this discourse is actively reinforcing gender stereotypes and that’s kind of fucked up’, not about caring about straight people more

[blankkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk-deact]

bone app the teeth

[blankkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk-deact]

like it’s such a HUGE can of worms that i’m genuinely scared to open it, but turns out the evidence is incredibly easy to find

[wyrmlovingwyrm]

She also follows miniwrecks and eatyourfacecat who are either terfs or follow terfs

[pizzaback-deactivated20201011]

like all her posts about transmisogyny talk about it in either hypothetical/abstract or are in relation to cis women being misgendered. sorry but i dont trust her either lmao

[scqqhic]

tbh it’s fucked that lgbt people can’t talk about lgbt issues or being exclusionists on main due to fear . like, it’s not great?? gay people being scared abt shit like that? hm. sounds familiar

[tracecourse]

i’m sorry, this is just so manipulative and guilt-trippy i can’t just ignore it.

like look. i’m an ace lesbian and i’m afraid to mention being ace on main because people get harassed for it. i know people who have stopped publicly saying they’re ace altogether because of this.

i was afraid while wearing an ace flag at pride this year.

what you’re talking about is fucked up, but you’re framing it here as if exclusionists are purely the victims here when i deadass have to be careful about expressing my sexuality in lgbtq+ spaces.

being an exclusionist is an opinion; being ace is who i am. and i think you can agree that gay people being afraid to talk about their sexuality is very familiar and very fucked up.

[sick-of-aphobes]

Op, exclusionists have made it so that I’m also very cautious about publically identifying as ace, even among other lgbt+ people, because people have been targeted for being asexual in the real-life queer groups I’m a part of. One ace girl was reduced to tears because an irl exclusionist assumed that she was cishet and kept on attacking her for it. That was last year and that girl still has yet to come back to the group as far as I know, even though that exclusionist was banned for other reasons. The entire environment was very toxic and harmful while that person was there.

Exclusionists have also attacked me for pointing out how the discourse has affected offline spaces, like what I mentioned above. They told me that I wasn’t really oppressed, that I have a victim/oppression complex, that I don’t understand oppression, etc. They said that to a person who is transgender, non-binary, pan and queer, as well as asexual.

Lgbt+/queer people being scared to embrace their full identity because they may be attacked for it? Also sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

[aroacemonster]

OP can’t tell the difference between “why do I have to be afraid of people disagreeing with my hatred of a minority sexuality?” and “I’m afraid of talking about my minority sexuality because there are people who hate me and will attack me because of it”

[aaa-hope]

i'm sometimes afraid of being nonbinary on main because exclusionists, apparently trying to justify their ace exclusion, have insisted that i must pick a side of the gender binary

but i suppose being worried about voicing your opinions that are sometimes (oftentimes, in my experience) "justified" using transphobia and misgendering is totally even worse than that /sarcasm

[nonbinarypastels]

What’s your take on the claim that mlnb/wlnb are fetishizing nb people?

I think it’s BS.

The only reasoning I’ve ever seen people use for why men and women saying they’re attracted to nonbinary people is ‘fetishizing’ is that “not all nonbinary people look the same and not all nonbinary identities are the same so saying you’re attracted to nonbinary people makes no sense!!”…except that this reasoning can also be applied to people saying they’re attracted to men and women.

Not all men look the same or experience manhood in the same way, not all women look the same or experience manhood in the same way, and the difference in appearance and identity between one man and another or one woman and another can easily be the same as the difference in identity and appearance between two nonbinary people - two demigirls or two genderfluid people - between an agender person and a genderqueer person - etc etc etc.

And yet NO ONE is pulling this fetishization argument on wlw or mlm or even straight people. No one is out here saying, “how can you say you’re attracted to women/men? not all women/men look the same! not all women/men have the same personality! are you sure you’re not fetishizing women/men?” because it’s basic common sense that when someone says “I’m attracted to women/men” they don’t mean “I’m attracted to every single woman/man on the face of the earth because to me they’re all exactly the same with no difference between them”. It’s literally no different with mlnb or wlnb and people saying “I’m attracted to nonbinary people”.

Being attracted to nonbinary people (sexually, romantically, platonically) isn’t fetishizing in and of itself. In order for someone to be fetishizng us they would have to see our identities (and us by extension) as nothing more than a turn-on for them, they would have to not care or acknowledge that we are actual people with our own minds and our own thoughts and feelings, they would have to see and treat nonbinary people and nonbinary identities as little more than a means by which they could facilitate their own sexual fantasies and desires. A similar comparison is to look at attraction to women—being attracted to women in and of itself is not fetishizing or harmful, but the objectification of women and seeing them as nothing more than sex objects is, but we know that attraction to women does not automatically mean that someone is fetishizing/objectifying them.  Attraction to nonbinary people (or to people of any gender identity) only becomes problematic when you forget that they are, in fact, people and start to consider your attraction to them to be more real than they are and see them as nothing more than a kink for you.

From everything I’ve seen from mlnb and wlnb and even nblnb, this isn’t what’s going on. People are very simply saying “I’m attracted to nonbinary people” with the same meaning and inflection they have with saying “I’m attracted to men/women” and if people don’t find attraction to men/women to be “fetishizing” then they shouldn’t find attraction to nonbinary people fetishizing either, as literally every argument I’ve seen about the latter can easily apply to the former as well.

[phase-shifting-deactivated20230]

lgbt people: here’s this fun meme we have! It’s based on D&D alignment charts and it’s a meme by and for lgbt people, using the same basic chart with minor humorous alterations (like every other meme)!

straights(+straight aces):

[afabitch]

it didn’t include trans ppl either, piss off

[tempest-caller]

It only included gay men, lesbians, and bi people. Tons of people felt excluded and then made variations that included us. Why is it you’re only mad at aces? Perhaps because the problem isn’t aces at all but it is you being an aphobic asshole? 🤔

[wetwareproblem]

OP: I say “lgbt” a lot for someone who literally forgets trans people exist when given a chance to do The Straights’ work for them.

[actuallysafe-for-aro]

Hey guys i just came across the tumblr @/wuvsbian who is anti mogai and has stolen the designs of many aspec/mogai flags, i assume to disvalue and erase mogai identities. I have a few side by side examples of their flag edits and aspec flags

Heres the aromantic flag and a side by side of one of their most recents labeled the “science lesbian flag”

Here are the grey aro and grey ace flags

And here is 2 of their other edits

Look familiar?

Now the most repeated color scheme for their edits is colors and designs that are near copies of the abrosexual flag:

And 3 abro like flag edits

Not to mention this:

[actuallysafe-for-aro]

Id also like to point out that the first abro copy also looks very similar to the arofulx flag

And the last one looks very similar to the apothiromantic/romance repulsed flag minus the X and more stripes

There are also more copied flags i saw including other mogai gender flags like lunarian and bigender flags as well as one looking similar to the bear flag (but that one is probably a coincidence) that i wont post here because this post is already long. If you wanna check for yourself feel free.

Please I DO NOT condone sending hate to (almost) ANYONE

[actuallysafe-for-aro]

Update :

[nonbinarypastels]

hot take: people in discourse don’t have “bad reading comprehension”, what they have is a bad habit of purposefully misinterpreting the words of anyone who doesn’t agree with them to hell and back in order to con their way into “winning” arguments by making the people they’re debating look as irrational or monstrous as possible and making themselves and their own arguments look better by comparison.

there’s a major difference between someone who reads text and genuinely does not understand what is being said and someone who reads text with no intention of even trying to understand what is being said because it doesn’t subscribe to their already held world views, who then goes on to reduce the text to the worst possible interpretation of it they can imagine (no matter how much they have to reach to get there) and attack that interpretation rather than what’s actually being said. 

[redkrypto-deactivated20211128]

if you were lgbt and ace why would you… literally ever tell someone that. being bi, gay, or a lesbian is not about whether you have sex. that’s between you and your partner. your ‘sexuality’ isn’t about what you do with your body it’s moreso a relation to society anyway. learn your history

[acelations]

Translation: I don’t actually understand what asexuality means and I love double standards.

[cottagesmasher]

Tag yourself I’m the “LGBT” but not mentioning anything about trans people.

[a-polite-melody]

How many times does this need to be said?

Asexuality doesn’t mean “doesn’t fuck”. It doesn’t mean “doesn’t like sex” or “thinks sex is dirty” or, worst I’ve seen at this point “can’t get their dick up”.

Asexuality is a lack of sexual attraction.

Not a lack of libido or sex drive. Not a lack of sex-positivity. Not a lack of the physiological processes that cause erections, tenting, production of vaginal lubrication, or other things of that nature.

Can asexual people feel or have a lack of those things? Sure.

Do they all? No. Are they defined by those? No.

Asexuality is the lack of sexual attraction. That’s it. Stop saying this shit to try to give a “hot take” or make asexuality out to be something it’s not to be easier to get people to exclude it.

[a-polite-melody]

So, I’ve seen a lot of exclusionists going on and on about how there are asexual people saying they’re uncomfortable with all PDA at pride. But I’ve seen absolutely no asexual people making posts to that nature. It really seems as if someone decided to either make up this problem or take the existence of one or two posts and blow it up to some enormous and widespread problem, and other people saw those posts made by that someone and thought it is a widespread problem even though there are very few asexual people actually saying that - to the point where I still haven’t seen a single one, while having seen a couple dozen or so posts about this “huge problem.”

[anthonyampersand]

honestly, this all stems from the discourse a while ago about sex-repulsed and romance-repulsed people taking part on lgbtqia+ spaces.

the debate was originally about accommodating ace, aro, and traumatized folks who were uncomfortable with pda - often for perfectly valid reasons - in safe spaces, while also accommodating people who sought those spaces as a refuge, who were unable to publicly display their affection to each other elsewhere because they weren’t out, or were in dangerous home/work/personal environments.

i think that the consensus was that this should be handled on a case-by-case basis. essentially… like any other trigger.

i haven’t seen a single person complaining about pda at pride, nor do i think that’s a serious discussion that’s happened. i think some people who deeply misconstrued the original debacle (which was, essentially, about triggers) just anticipated it bleeding into pride month, and started complaining about it before they even had any evidence that it was happening. and then it didn’t happen. and now they look like hatemongers.

i really cannot stress enough that this debate is not even really just about aces and aros, nor does it apply to every ace/aro person. not every ace/aro person is sex- or romance-repulsed! and plenty of otherwise lgbtq+ people ARE repulsed by those things, or triggered by pda specifically, because of their own personal history.

this has been giving me a huge headache because it’s the same misunderstanding that’s made the whole “bars vs cafes” discourse so toxic. there are lgbtqia+ people who need spaces that are alcohol-free, spaces that do not contain sexual undertones, spaces where they will not be hit on, etc etc.

no one was saying that gay bars were any more sexual than any other bar. that’s just realistically what a bar scene is like. it’s a place where people go to relax, indulge in alcohol (and possibly other substances), and be social. people often go to bars to hook up. that’s not specific to gay bars. not one person was saying “get rid of gay bars”; they were saying “lets diversify the spaces that we congregate, so that no one is left without a community” and those words were twisted.

this is the same situation.

i’m not sure where this misconception that ace and aro people all unanimously dislike pda. that’s never been true in any ace or aro space (online or off) that i’ve been a part of. in my city, there’s an ace specific group that marches in the pride parade every year.

the people getting overly aggressive towards the imagined threat of ace people trying to like.. “censor” pride, or whatever it is they’re trying to insinuate, just need to calm down and enjoy pride. they will almost 100% not find a single person at their local pride events who remotely behaves this way.

i can’t even understand the logic here, tbh. pride events are notoriously rowdy events, that people attend specifically to enjoy being queer in public. pda is a given at an event like this. if someone is too triggered by those things, they just won’t attend.

(and besides, it’s not like there aren’t other parts of pride that they can focus on if they do choose to attend. parades, live entertainment, and vendor browsing are all things i enjoy at pride, which have nothing to do with pda)

the thing i do see people complaining about pride is unsolicited kissing, groping, etc, which you’d have to be a terrible person to deliberately NOT address in favor of shitting on ace attendees.

because it’s definitely not just ace people who dislike outright sexual harassment.

it’s very tiresome that everyone is framing these issues through the lens of “ace/aro people don’t belong, that’s why they’re uncomfortable” because that’s literally not true. the issues that were talking about are harmful to a much wider range of people - particularly victims of trauma and abuse - and deserve to be addressed, for the safety of everyone.

tl;dr, nobody is complaining about pda at pride, calm tf down.

[just-shower-thoughts]

Being asexual is very depressing from an evolutionary standpoint. It’s the “you had one job” of the natural world.

[aaa-hope]

lovely

[thewinddrifter]

yeah i’m gonna have to ask discoursers on tumblr to stop saying ‘kweer’ and then pretend like that somehow isn’t a slur, thanks.

also not every asshole making a bad take about butch women is a ‘queer theorist’

like i know none of you will stop because you are desperate to demonise queer folk as destructive, lesbophobic and out of touch, but thanks

[thewinddrifter]

Like a friend of mine pointed out that the rhetoric of ‘butch women don’t belong in women’s spaces’ is more of a radfem position than a queer one, but y’all are just gonna ignore contributions by butch women to queer theory aren’t you.

[thewinddrifter]

>  Lesbian separatists such as Sheila Jeffreys argued that all forms of masculinity, including masculine butch women, were negative and harmful to women. The group of radical lesbians often credited with sparking lesbian feminism, Radicalesbians, called butch culture “male-identified role-playing among lesbians”.

While butch-femme roles had previously been the primary way of identifying lesbians and quantifying lesbian relationships in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s, lesbian feminist ideology had turned these roles into a “perversion of lesbian identity”. Lesbian feminism turned the public face of lesbians into white, middle class women, often excluding and alienating working class lesbians and lesbians of color.

But yeah all those queer theorists amirite?

[nowat-ladybugbutch-blog]

thegayuk has an article about allosexuals now.

i am so tired. people worked for the lgbt community. people died for us. people protested and were arrested for us. people risked their lives just walking outside for us.

and you fuckers are ruining it. me being a lesbian? that’s something i can’t change. i CAN’T make myself not a part of this community. but because of all this shit no one takes me seriously anymore. nobody. my family calls me a dyke instead of lesbian because it’s a gross word. when i id’d as bi, they ignored it. now whenever i stand up for myself when they do something homophobic they think i’m standing up for all you fuckers with 20 labels. i’m not. you all can choke. i face more homophobia than i ever experienced now that you guys have made it to the mainstream media. you are stripping away everything the older lgbt people in our community have worked and died for because you just want to be included into something you don’t even fucking qualify for. you are taking the community they worked so hard for people to respect and we haven’t even gotten there yet. you are taking away the ability for actual lgbt people to come out because they’re scared of not being taken seriously. i didn’t come out because of that reason until 2 years ago- and as a lesbian 1 year ago even though i already knew. you are harming lgbt people. you are destroying our resources and rebuilding them to accomadate you when we need them. get the fuck out of our spaces. stay away from us. you’re doing nothing but harming us and ignoring it. you are setting us back years with every stupid article you guys make it into.

stop hurting us. stop killing our community. please.

[melmoths]

some journalist, most likely gay considering he’s writing for a goddamn gay magazine: sometimes people feel sexual attraction and asexuals use this term to describe them, it just means non-asexual

you: has a meltdown, blames everything wrong in their life on every single asexual person that has ever existed, despite most asexuals being lgbt themselves on top of already belonging to a marginalised orientation, invalidates people’s labels because apparently you can only call yourself gay or bi, implies we can “stop” being asexual, claims that people knowing that asexuality is a thing is “harming lgbt people” instead of you know, actually helping people understand who they are and avoid feeling broken and subsequently force themselves into having sex they don’t want to have

(x)

[fumbledeegrumble]

did op seriously deactivate because of this omfg

[deactivated-blog]

Could we get the percentage of exclusionists that are allo vs a-spec and the percentage of inclusionists that are allo vs a-spec?

Among people identifying as neither asexual nor aromantic (nor with common fill-in identities such as demiromantic and gray-ace):

54.3% identified as inclusionist

34.5% identified as exclusionist

In comparison, people who identified as either asexual or aromantic:

93.8% of aromantic identifying people who chose to answer the question identified as inclusionist.

91% of asexual identifying people who chose to answer the question  identified as inclusionist

2.2% of aromantic identifying peoplewho chose to answer the question identified as exclusionist

3.6% of asexual identifying people who chose to answer the question identified as exclusionist.

Note that “identified as in/exclusionist” means “answered yes to the question, do you consider yourself an in/exclusionist.” It is a self-assigned identification.

Questions such as “Regardless of other factors, do you believe asexual/aromantic people have the right to be part of this community because of their asexual/aromantic identity?” have different numbers of responders and show slightly different results.

61.2% of neither asexual nor aromantic responders held that asexual people have a right to access this community.

58.3% of this same group held that aromantic people have a right to access this community.

95.4% of asexual identifying respondents held that asexual people have a right to access this community. 

94.5% of this same group held that aromantic people have a right to access this community.

96.6% of aromantic identifying respondents held that asexual people have a right to access this community.

95.7% of this same group held that aromantic people have a right to access this community.

Survey

Most recent data release

Results tag

Patreon

[delightful-ace]

Since this doesn’t quite answer anon’s question (this is “how many a-specs identify as inclusionists,” not “how many inclusionists identify as a-spec”), here are those percentages, for people who are curious.

Of the 2,409 people answering “Yes” to whether they identify as inclusionists, 1,278 or 53.1% identify as ace and 670 or 27.8% identify as aro, with 557 or 23.1% identifying as both. Also, 67 or 2.8% people identify as demisexual and 45 or 1.9% as demiromantic, which may overlap with the previous groups. 

Of the 683 people answering “Yes” to whether they identify as exclusionists, 51 or 7.5% identify as ace and 16 or 2.3% identify as aro, with 5 or 0.7% identifying as both. None identify as demisexual or demiromantic.

I don’t believe there was a question asking whether respondents considered themselves allo or not, but if allo is taken to mean “not identifying as a-spec,” then that could be approximated as anyone who did not identify their orientation as ace, aro, demi, a lack of attraction, or the attraction to no genders: 

For inclusionists, 920 or 38.2% chose none of those options.

For exclusionists, 611 or 89.5% chose none of those options.

Keep in mind that those last numbers do include “queer” and “questioning,” so they might include people who aren’t allo but chose not to specify that they were a-spec.

(Let me know if I’ve misunderstood anything about the survey or messed anything up.)

[dysperdis]

Teenage transmedicalist fresh out of grade 9 biology class: You NEED dysphoria to be trans, it’s the only requirement! Just ask the medical experts, they’ll tell you!

The American Psychiatric Association: No you don’t, and no it isn’t.

The World Medical Association: Sure, dysphoria’s common in trans people, but it’s not necessary.

World Health Organization: Including GID and Gender Dysphoria diagnoses in official diagnostic standards pathologizes trans people. (pdf)