a list of some sites that I find helpful for research:
mythopedia.com not academic, but given how many notes and references to both primary and secondary sources there are, I'd say if you're looking for a place to start, this is a good one
theoi.com is also really good for finding a place to start. it's much more academic in nature since the information provided is strictly from ancient sources, but it's easy to navigate with a genealogy, extensive bibliography and image galleries
for ancient texts:
topostext.org -- an absolute wealth of mythological and historical Greek and Roman texts, with searches for both Places and People, and access to the original Greek/Latin. absolutely wonderful for cross referencing. there's also a free app for both Apple Store and Google Play
Perseus Digital Library -- this also has extensive Latin and Greek (and more!) texts, though I prefer using the Scaife Viewer due to the ability to see English and Latin or Greek side by side
miscellaneous:
Project Gutenberg is great if you're looking for free, easily accessible ebooks, here you go! there’s not many current books, but if you’re looking for classics this would be the place to look
LibriVox (and here’s LibriVox’s youtube channel) is free, public domain audiobooks!
as I was skimming Servius' Commentary of Vergil's Aeneid, I came across two sections that discuss Medusa (2.616 and 6.289). I will (hopefully) be posting an analysis of them soon, but before I do, I felt it was necessary to make a particular stance clear:
unfortunately, Servius' Commentaries have no English translation, thus all translations I provide will be mine
aside from Servius, any Latin I provide going forward is either my own, or will be sourced reputably, and linked to when able. for this reason, I tend to prefer to use either Perseus or topostext due to accessibility
I will not be using AI for my translations, I will be doing it myself
I hate AI in general. in my opinion, translation is like art or acting, in that it is a skill that must be learned and honed. there are nuances to language that an AI does not have the capability to fully understand
in short: AI is a shortcut that I have no interest in using
as I was skimming Servius' Commentary of Vergil's Aeneid, I came across two sections that discuss Medusa (2.616 and 6.289). I will (hopefully) be posting an analysis of them soon, but before I do, I felt it was necessary to make a particular stance clear:
unfortunately, Servius' Commentaries have no English translation, thus all translations I provide will be mine
aside from Servius, any Latin I provide going forward is either my own, or will be sourced reputably, and linked to when able. for this reason, I tend to prefer to use either Perseus or topostext due to accessibility
in Book 4 line 743 of Ovid's Metamorphoses, he tells us that Medusa is a daughter of Phorcys
Ovid gives no information about Phorcys, but based off contemporary literature such as Book 5 of Vergil's Aeneid, he is a sea god. based off of Hyginus' Fabulae, it can be reasonably assumed that within the context of Roman tradition, Medusa's mother is Phorcys' sister Ceto. their parents are Pontus, a sea god who is specifically associated with the Black Sea, and Gaia. their brother is Nereus, who by the Oceanid Doris had 50 daughters known as the Nereids
the only logical conclusion is that within the context of Ovid's Metamorphoses, Medusa was a sea nymph before her transformation at the hands of Minerva
adding to this is the story of Scylla's transformation into a monster at the hands of Helios' daughter Circe in Book 14, established in the previous book during the story of Galatea as a sea nymph. and in Book 5, the Sirens are described as daughters of the river Achelous and were given wings in order to continue their search for their lost playmate, Proserpina
all this to say: I have no clue where the idea that Medusa was a human and/or a priestess came from because there is no evidence whatsoever within the text of Ovid's Metamorphoses to even imply that would be the case
from The Origin of Homer and Hesiod, and of Their Contest, translated by Evelyn-White
We will set down, however, what we have heard to have been said by the Pythia concerning Homer in the time of the most sacred Emperor Hadrian. When the monarch inquired from what city Homer came, and whose son he was, the priestess delivered a response in hexameters after this fashion:
"Do you ask me of the obscure race and country of the heavenly siren? Ithaca is his country, Telemachus his father, and Epicasta, Nestor's daughter, the mother that bare him, a man by far the wisest of mortal kind." This we must most implicitly believe, the inquirer and the answerer being who they are—especially since the poet has so greatly glorified his grandfather in his works.
Madeline Miller: Helios doesn't care about Circe
me: are you sure about that???? because uh --
Ptolemy Hephaestion, New History Book 4 (summary from Photius, Myriobiblon 190) (trans. Pearse) (Greek mythographer C1st to C2nd A.D.) : "The plant moly of which Homer speaks; this plant had, it is said, grown from the blood of the Gigante (Giant) killed in the isle of Kirke (Circe); it has a white flower; the ally of Kirke who killed the Gigante was [her father] Helios; the combat was hard (Greek malos) from which the name of this plant."
Eustathius, Ad Odysseam10.305 "Alexander of Paphos reports the following tale: Picoloos, one of the Giants, by fleeing from the war led against Zeus, reached Circe’s island and tried to chase her away. Her father Helios killed him, protecting his daughter with his shield; from the blood which flowed on the earth a plant was born, and it was called μῶλυ because of the μῶλος or the battle in which the Giant aforementioned was killed."
YES HE DOES
like the fact that this tidbit survives twice over, especially second hand, is an absolute wonder in itself, but I have no clue how you can read even one and come away with the idea that Helios doesn't care about Circe
Does anybody have any art that depicts Athena bursting through Zeus's Head? It's a hilarious concept to me but like I need a visual interpretation because on my own it's very hard to figure it out. I'm begging here
This might be a bit corny lol. Admittedly, I'm not really satisfied with how this turned out (might tweak things later maybe), but it's been so long since I've drawn anything and I wanted to get something out by Halloween at least, so this will have to do. u_u
a late valentines gift. I forgot to post it here. Punderworld Hades and Persephone inspired by their actual counterparts on an Athenian red-figure kylix from C5th B.C.
haec rursus patienda manent, hoc ordine belli ibitur, hic stabit civilibus exitus armis [lucan, pharsalia], or alternatively titled, Aeneas Kills Turnus
there’s a million and seven things that went on in the ‘dialogue’ of figuring this painting out, but it’ll take like, literally 15 pages to explain, so instead I’ll pull together a thread of quotes that rattled around in my head while I made this and hope that the dots are all connectable
the aeneid, tr. fagles
the iliad, tr. fagles
blood in the arena, alison futrell
@thoodleoo‘s tags on this post
the epodes: horace’s archilochus?, lindsay watson
the memory of philippi in horace and the interpretation of the epistle 1.20.23, mario citroni (you know, because philippi is where the republic dies, and functions as a spectacle, funeral, and foundational sacrifice for empire, which circles back to—)
I've seen some discussion on what Odysseus' bow might be, and I would like to offer my opinion: that Odysseus' bow is Scythian
for textual evidence, we'll look at Book 21 of the Odyssey (translations taken from Penguin Classics Edition, translated by Robert Fagles unless otherwise noted) —
it is repeated referred to as "backstrung" (for example lines 12-13 "and there it lay as well...his backstrung bow / with its quiver bristling arrows, shafts of pain"), which in Greek is rendered as palintonos / παλίντονος or "back bent"
this phrase also shows up in Aeschylus’ Libation Bearers and is tied directly to a Scythian bow by the Chorus as they are going through death rites for Agamemnon
Let him come, a man of the spear,
a liberator of the House,
his Scythian bow bent back,
Ares’ death-bolts, ready,
he closes in, sword in hand
(lines 160-4, translated by Peter Meineck)
in the Iliad, Teucer is also described as having a “bent back bow” Book 8 line 266, via Scaife view) (for comparison’s sake, Fagles describes Teucer as having a “reflex bow” (Book 8 line 306)
here’s the Perseus entry on παλίντονος frequency
it is referred to as being horn (line 188), and Odysseus turns it over in his hands to check for worms just before stringing it, implying wood was used in its construction (439-442), both of which are used in the construction of composite bows, including Scythian
it is relatively short, given how Odysseus can draw and fire it while sitting
Setting shaft on the handgrip, drawing the notch
and bowstring back, back...right from his stool,
(lines 468-7)
it is referred to as having a burnished case, which seems to be both sheath for the bow itself and a quiver for arrows. this would presumably be a gortys
Wikipedia describes a grotys as “a type of leather bow-case for a short composite bow used by the Scythians in classical antiquity. They are a combination of bow case and quiver in one, and are worn on the archer's left hip with the opening tilted rearward."
the relevant lines are:
63 “still secure in the burnished case that held it”
66 “as she drew her husband’s weapon from its sheath…”
69-70 “cradling her husband’s backstrung bow in her arms,
its quiver bristling arrows, shafts of pain.”
plus we have similarities in how Odysseus’s bow is depicted in ancient vases and the Scythian bow, this oinochoe at the Metropolitan Museum of Art,
here’s a second example:
One of the most dramatic scenes from the myth of Odysseus’ return home is
depicted on this drinking bowl (skyphos). The hero Odysseus is sh
and for comparison, a fragment of a kylix, depicting a Scythian with a drawn bow:
as described in this article from Scythian-Style Bows Discovered in Xianjiang by Bebe Dwyer for The Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies Scythian bows have several features that characterize them, almost all of which can be applied to Odysseus’ bow:
is very short (Odysseus fires this bow from his stool, and above oinochoe and amphora)
has recurved tips (the amphora)
has a setback center section (oinochoe and amphora)
limbs are thick in proportion to their width (we can’t say for certain, since we don’t have a head on example of Odysseus’ bow depicted from the front)
usually carried in a gorytos (described above)
primarily a cavalry weapon (there is no way to establish this with certainty, beyond visual similarities between Odysseus’ bow and a Scythian bow, though I do find it interesting to note he received the bow from Iphitus, who himself was on a trip to retrieve some stolen mares and mule offspring (25-6) as well directly afterwards describing Iphitus' death because of the mares. alongside the story of the Centaur Eurytion, lines 330-340, this, to my mind, ties the idea of horses to the bow)
the above article also provided a picture, Figure 6, of what the bow would look like strung and drawn, which is visually similar to how Odysseus' bow is depicted on both the oinochoe and amphora
Hi, I'm reading Bullfinch's Mythology to get better acquainted with Ancient Greek/Roman mythology. The intro says that Bullfinch, being of the Victorian era, sanitized some of the more "naughty" bits from the myths. I plan to continue reading Bullfinch since it seems to be a well regarded source, but do you have any suggestions for resources I could explore with the unadulterated, NSFW, depraved even, versions of these stories?
I have an answer but I keep getting stuck on "NSFW, depraved even". because while depraved acts do occur in myth (the House of Atreus is certainly not the only example, but it is particularly infamous), I genuinely think if you're going into myth for that alone you might find yourself a bit disappointed -- and I am admittedly Grumpy and Annoyed with the constant "Dark and Disturbing Origins of [insert myth or fairy tale here]!" I see on YouTube
but I do have a recommendation: tragedy -- my personal favorite of the three is Euripides, but both Sophocles and Aeschylus have their strong points too. I feel I should point out there's never any actual acts ever committed on stage and if you're looking for NSFW content (or at least jokes placed front and center) that's more the wheelhouse of comedy, but it is made painfully clear what's happened -- either as it's occurring offstage or via a messenger afterwards
I suppose the other sensationalist source I can think of would be Ovid. he's...a bit controversial, but his Metamorphoses is perhaps the closest you'll get to what you might be looking for
Unless i'm getting names wrong (possible since greek myth is huge), I vaguely remember reading that Aethra meet the nereids. Tried looking on Theoi and Wikipedia and couldn't find.
assuming you mean Aethra, mother of Theseus, from theoi's Nereid: under The Nereids and Theseus:
Bacchylides, Fragment 17 (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric IV) (C5th B.C.) :
"[Theseus speaks :] ‘[Aithra (Aethra)] bore me after drawing close to the sea-god Poseidon, when the violet-crowned Nereides gave her a golden veil . . .’
