The purpose of this blog is to provide a personal, secondary outlet to present my related thoughts/questions while I work on a larger creative project based within Hazbin Hotel's premise. I may also periodically post ideas, compiled research, and drawings as well.
Additionally, I gladly welcome any discussion my commentary/questions may inspire!
Hazbin Season 2 Commentary:
Sinner Forms: What We Know (+Valentino/Moth Speculation)
Random Season 3 Theory: Valentino Caught In A Web
Season 2 Finale Frame: Vees Popularity
Hazbin Hotel Season 2 Finale: The Good, Bad, Ugly + Predictions
Post-S2: The Face of the Vees
Season 3: Thoughts/Predictions On Angel
Vees Spin-off Thoughts
Random Thoughts On S2 E5/6
Vent on Hazbin S2 Episodes 3 + 4
Short Thoughts On Hazbin S2 Episodes 1 + 2
Hazbin Pre-Season 2 Commentary:
Human Angel Dust Design + Quick Thoughts
Angel and Valentino's History - Theories On Similarities/Differences + Meeting/Partnership
On Valentino + The Case For Potential Redemption
Lingering Thoughts, Questions, and Critique of Hazbin Hotel
I've seen a lot of headcanons about Valentino's past as a human and a popular suggestion is that Valentino was a sex worker when alive.
If I had to put my finger on it, I would say the best idea I have is that Val's history (whatever the show decides to give us anyways) will mirror Angel Dust's.
If we ignore Vox being the de facto leader of the Vees for a moment and center Val as the main one (which he will be next season), then Valentino strongly parallels Angel. He's energetic, flirtatious, charming, funny, often femme-presenting (though he does both) and uncomfortably sexual around others. He's a bug demon just like Angel. He also has an older love interest in Vox who calms him down and that he's softer towards much Angel is with in his prospective relationship with Husk. And much like Angel and Cherri, Val has a best friend in Velvette who enables him and stands by him.
So, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Val's experiences in his past would mirror or parallel Angel's current predicament in some way.
That said, let's look at some surface observations that fit closely with the "Val was an abused sex worker in his human life" narrative:
- Valentino will always sexualize and paint himself as desirable every chance he gets. His penthouse is full of posters of himself being a performer. He seems to enjoy and relish in being wanted and desired and never second guesses it. There's even a point to be made about how his spit is commodified into a substance that can make love potions/r*pe drugs. Valentino doesn't hesitate to shed his clothing or dress scantily clad in nearly every scene he's in save for when he's wearing more masculine clothing at work.
It's almost like it's second nature for Valentino and that he knows his entire value is wrapped up in how desired he is. Performing is natural to him.
- Valentino's concept of love seems to be based around it being conditional. He lovebombs people, notably Angel and overwhelms them with his lover boy persona and gets them dependent on him. He's uncomfortably good at what he does and it's not crazy to wonder where he's learned such tactics from. Vivzie noted that while Val is Vox's dumb trophy wife, he's still "very good at what he does". And he is. Emotionally, he's quite adept at manipulating the scenario in Ep 4 until Angel demands for Charlie to leave himself so Val didn't have to. So... one could easily speculate he knows how to manipulate others emotionally because he has experienced it himself through a brutal sex industry in the 70s.
-Look at everything Val does to excuse Vox's behavior in S2. He calls himself dramatic, says Vox is "Just a man". He mutters to himself and walks off after Vox slaps his ass, but still lets Vox get his way while his frustration builds. After the way Vox treats him, Val just... does as Vox wants and gives him Angel too. We know Val's feelings for Vox are something different and real in contrast how he works on others he treats as disposable. The only line Vox crosses is when he tries to blow himself and everyone else up at the end of the season and only then does Val jump in to stop him with Velvette.
But this vulnerable side is definitely curious from Val, who is no stranger to violently ripping apart his best friend's models when he feels his tantrums aren't being listened to.
-Valentino doesn't know what consent means. Take this with a pinch of salt with Vivzie and the crew just joking on the commentary track, but ithe comment is notable. The only reason Val would not know this word is because it was never once used with him in any context in his actual life.
-Val, while being an attention whore, isn't put off by being under constant surveillance from Vox. It's normal to him. Keep in mind, Val has about six cameras in his penthouse on him alone and feels completely comfortable with it.
-Val more than likely has an ED, a trait so many sex workers amd performers struggle with in the industry. Angel also alludes to having something similar when he tells Husk that his lunch was "three cigarettes" in S2 Ep6.
-Val can take being stabbed with really so much as blinking at it. He's also notably great at crawling with his fists. Even though he's usually portrayed with his gun, he seems more adept at scraping by with his hands. It's like he's used to physical pain.
-Vox is prone to grabbing Val and shaking him roughly and Val doesn't have much of a reaction to it at all.
-Valentino is a moth, commonly a preyed upon insect. Spiders eat moths, fun coincidence. Also, moth was once considered slang for a prostitute because moths would linger under lamp posts much like sex workers.
In essence, I think there's a lot of evidence to point to Val's backstory being a big commentary on both the cycle of abuse and the dangers in the sex industry as well as being a tool of contrast for Angel Dust's character as a whole. That said, we don't know if we will get that much, but it is still interesting to speculate and I do believe the subtext is definitely there.
At this point if it's not canon that Val is an abused sex worker that's continuing the cycle by hoarding what little power he can get and using it against whoever he can force below himself because he's terrified of being weak again I'm going to be so fucking confused.
It explains why he clings to Vox so much, him having a man in power that also let him be in power as an equal. Someone who's safe without infantilizing or controlling him (Val being immune to hypnotism).
It explains why he acts the way he does with Angel, emphasizing control over his personhood and autonomy. If he's the abuser he cannot be the abused and the most upset he gets is when he's losing a significant amount of his control over what Angel does (Angel moving out).
It explains why he sexualizes himself just as much as he sexualizes others. It's a lifestyle that's always been a part of him and taking control of that has been a great way to reclaim himself after what he went through.
It sets up numerous ways for him to have fallen to sin, whether it was lashing out at his abusers like Angel did or resorting to things like stealing from his clients to get ahead.
It sets up the perfect cycle of abuse story between him and Angel, Val symbolizing a person Angel might become if he regresses his progress and serving as a manifestation of every element of his character that led him to ending up in Hell. Rejecting that, being better than that, will be what let's Angel ascend like Pentious did; confronting and changing the part of himself that led him to sin.
Hell- it explains why he's a moth specifically. "Moth" is a Victorian era slang term for a prostitute.
I hate when fandoms lean on popular fanon expectations for a series then get genuinely mad when the showrunners do something different. There's a lot of theories and expectations I can let go of to see the series' actual vision but I will actually be pissed if none of this is true.
Sinner Forms: What We Know (+Valentino/Moth Speculation)
I've been seeing more and more people discussing this and have been rather... underwhelmed by the theories that assume a character like Valentino was 'eaten alive by moths' or 'died choking on a moth' hence why he is portrayed as one (lol). I figured I would compile what information we already have on how the main cast's sinner forms came to be before speculating on how I personally interpret what could be the logic/backstory behind Valentino's form.
Of course, this is all in good fun - I just think in some cases people might be limiting what these forms can theoretically symbolize since (from what we know) they can, seemingly, be related to any aspect of a sinner's life!
And, to be fair to the killer moth death truthers... there's still a chance you may be correct as the show has revealed to us with S2 that they're not opposed to acknowledging/having fun with fan theories (nor do they mind absurdity given Vox's death) lol.
To begin, let's examine the confirmed 'sinner -> demon forms' that we have already been shown/told. I am going to try and explain these various aspects as succinctly as I am able for the sake of brevity.
Alastor
Cause of Death: Shot by a hunter mistaking him for a deer in 1933.
Personality: Before his death, Alastor was a suave successful-radio-host-turned-predatory-serial-killer that was already in contact with other demons in Hell (well before being killed) through the art of satanic (?) rituals. We do not know why/how he has this connection to the afterlife, but we do know he established this contact out of the pursuit for power.
Metaphors/Symbolism: While a predator/killer in life, there may be a certain irony in the fact he is now eternally forced to live as a prey animal, a creature divorced from power within the animal kingdom. It is the creature a hunter mistook him for and may also be 'mocking' in that regard. Alastor is portrayed as an anthropomorphic deer with antlers and pointed ears though it is not an extremely literal design as it's quite abnormally red and many might find it difficult to clock him as even an animal upon first introduction, but, ultimately, he is a deer and others refer to him as such.
ETA: As @/diamondkat mentioned in the comments there could also be something to explore in this transformation that harkens to Alastor's 'trickster' and 'double-dealing' tendencies. He presents as one thing (an innocent deer) but shifts into something far more predatory (the shadow monster/creature that commands great power) that his true target, the hunter-turned-hunted, realizes only too late.
Vox
Cause of Death: TV fell on his head and he (and his supporters) were electrocuted to death as they were standing in water.
Personality: Before his death, Vox was a smooth-talking, attention-hungry TV personality who steadily climbed the Hollywood ladder to secure bigger roles and earn more fame/name recognition through secretly stalking and murdering his contemporaries. He displayed further grandiosity by establishing a cult-like following.
Metaphors/Symbolism: He is literally presented as a man with a TV for a head thus having one of the more literal cause of death -> demon form designs. Metaphorically it also speaks to his megalomania wherein he desires his face on every screen.
Pentious
Cause of Death: Unknown.
Personality: Before his death, Pentious was a brilliant man with ambitions to become a great inventor. He was, however, extremely reclusive and shy to the extent that his cowardice led to multiple women being murdered even though he knew of this crime/the killer's identity and could have reported it.
Metaphors/Symbolism: Pentious is portrayed as a snake (often deemed 'shifty/untrustworthy' creatures) and has many eyes plastered across his body, perhaps suggesting a connection to his voyeuristic lifestyle in which he is always watching but not acting.
Angel
Cause of Death: Drug overdose in 1947.
Personality: We do not currently have many confirmed details on Angel's past life/before his death. According to a Vivzie Stream (I am not sure the canon relevance of these) Angel comes from a mafia family that all appear as spider demons due to their 'web' of crime. We do see Angel sport a Tommy gun (classic mob weapon) and fedora (classic mob styling).
Metaphors/Symbolism: As stated in the aforementioned streams, Angel is portrayed as a spider due to his involvement in his family's 'web' of crimes. This indicates that Angel has more of a metaphorical demon form than a literal one.
Ultimately, sinner demon forms thus far seem to be based on a random amalgamation of three factors:
1.) Means/Cause of Death
2.) Personality/Way of Life
3.) Metaphor/Symbolism
Onto what we can speculate with Valentino's design/characterization...
Since nothing has been confirmed yet, a pretty popular theory I've seen floating around for a while now (and the one I personally subscribe to due to its potential for intrigue and complexity) is that, in life, Valentino was actually a sex worker himself and likely (at least for a bit) continued that line of work in Hell (especially given the posters that exist of him in his private quarters at Vee Tower) and his form therefore reflects that past lifestyle/serves as a more 'symbolic' transformation similar to Angel's.
Moths are prey animals with many predators and are extremely delicate/fragile/vulnerable. There is a striking beauty to them to the extent that they are coveted by lepidopterists who display them in various collections around the world. The word/imagery has also been used specifically in reference to prostitutes (those who come out at night).
Here are examples of some of the moth-types that I've seen speculated to have inspired Valentino's design (namely the Rosy Maple Moth and the Virgin Tiger Moth):
And, for reference, these are the suggestive/revealing posters we are shown at Vee Tower which indicate Valentino may have led a very different lifestyle before this current iteration of him we see at the start of the series:
Also for consideration, the similarities between these two advertisements:
Continued under the cut.
To those who don't know, in some of Vivziepop's earliest work/character designs, Vaggie was first explored as a moth demon who had worked as a prostitute in life and her being a moth demon was explicitly meant to reflect that reality and evoke 'lady of the night' vibes.
Though it's certainly not canon, we do know that some early story details (from even before the larger inception of Hazbin Hotel as its own title/work) have remained relevant over the years. I just think it's not entirely out of line to bring up Vivzie's past takes on demon moth forms and many have already commented/seem to suspect that Valentino might have absorbed parts of her backstory.
Here is that early Vaggie concept:
Link to WaybackMachine archive.
There's also something to be said for Valentino's broader characterization that I think we should take into account, especially as S2 revealed quite a bit of new information here.
From what we are shown, his private, 'true' self tends to be more flamboyant/feminine and he often defers to Vox and Velvette's direction/leadership. The moments where we see him really leaning into performative masculinity are only when he is acting in the 'pimp' role and is taking on an outward-facing leadership position.
This is true even in the news clip at the end of the season where he is 'taking over' Voxtek as the 'new boss daddy'. What we are shown in this final outfit is a very masculine/stereotypical 'pimp' look that we don't often see him in except when he is working. We also know that these news clips are used as propaganda for the Vees and portray the image that they want to project, not necessarily that which is the truth (hence why Valentino, who we know adores his found family more than anything else, claims not to 'know' Vox/diminish his role in an attempt to salvage their brand with the public who largely despise Vox at this point in time - this is for the public, it is not a projection of his or Velvette's true feelings).
Below are some more visual examples of Valentino's 'many faces/roles' that I think are worth exploring and really add new dimensions to who he is/who he might have been...
Valentino Working:
-Outside of his full wing-jacket which will cover him up completely, he is the most 'covered up' in these outfits.
-There is a greater emphasis here on gold jewelry (ie prototypical pimp styling).
-These outfits are far more masculine than anything else he wears.
-These are the only instances where we see him wearing pants.
Valentino Not Working:
-These are his most revealing outfits (he might even be naked in the first image as we only see fishnets, no hat, and his wings are the only thing covering him).
-He is far more likely to wear skirts/dresses in private/outside of the workplace.
-These outfits tend to be more feminine presenting/leaning.
-His personality also tends to be more playful/whiny in these instances and we often see him defer leadership/decision-making to Vox and Velvette.
Valentino Mixing The Two:
-In all cases, he always seems to be wearing heels in addition to fishnets/garters if his legs are visible (from what I can find, at least).
-He often utilizes his wings to form his 'classic' long, red jacket which is heavily furred and expensive-looking (again, prototypical pimp fashioning).
-Notably, in the second outfit, it seems like Valentino intended to actually shed the jacket and may have even planned on performing in drag given he is fluffing a wig before speaking with Vox... as Vox changes the plans to show less of Valentino/Velvette, however, we do not see this look come to fruition and the jacket, of course, stays on.
-I'd argue that (save his usual/standard wing-coat) these looks are certainly feminine though not nearly as much or as showy as the ones where Valentino is completely in private/among the other Vees (ie where he is most comfortable/free to be himself).
If you'd like to read more on classic 'pimp' fashion from the 1970s and some common misconceptions, I worked on a short post about it a while ago.
While Alastor can in some ways represent a predator-turned-prey analogy through his demon form and I can see the argument that a Valentino (in life) who previously operated as a pimp might have transformed (in death) into something more vulnerable and similar to those he trafficked, I'm not completely sold on it given 1.) the hints we are liberally fed of him being some flavor of sex worker himself and 2.) his general characterization in S2, especially where we see him free to be himself.
Given there are so many clear similarities and parallels between Angel and Valentino throughout the show, I feel fairly comfortable going out on a limb here and saying that Valentino's demon form might have taken on a more symbolic/metaphorical presentation in the same vein as Angel's spider one, meaning the transformation exists on the 'lifestyle led in life' paradigm more than anything else.
Frankly, if the Valentino we are shown existing in private ever tried to posture/project power against other more stereotypical pimps, they'd probably outright kill him. Pimp fashion/culture is flashy and extravagant but its most pervasive form is emphatically not queer. Note, that I am speaking broadly here and there are many additional considerations that should be factored in (including the time period, location, race of those involved, etc) that make this more dynamic/complex, but generally speaking there is deep homophobia entrenched in the more classic presentations of pimping (and that is the one I am wagering the showrunners are playing from and that is why I think Valentino's personality/deviation from the stereotype matters so much).
All of these are just general ideas, but, to liven up the Valentino analysis out there, consider:
A sex worker Valentino who had earned the role of bottom bitch while alive and went on to sell the same false dreams of money/fame to other prospective sex workers and recruit/rope them into the same life of exploitation that he fell for.
A sex worker Valentino who snapped one day and killed his pimp or a john who was perhaps trying to kill/harm him (less interesting imo as we already have a number of murder/killing stories in the show, but it's an easy leap to make -- also as an adult male sex worker he may not have even had a pimp which should be factored in).
A Valentino who never stood a chance at a 'normal' life and ended up exploited by a parent, family member, or partner at an early or formative age leading to a chaotic, toxic, and unhealthy life that greatly influenced how he now views/interacts with the world.
To play into the 'a moth to flame' idiom, perhaps a younger/more innocent Valentino that found himself attracted to the bad actors around him, those who only wanted to bring him harm or exploit his looks/vulnerability in a way that resulted in him being metaphorically (or literally) 'burned'. Ultimately, this then warped his view of love, people, relationships, and how society operates.
We know that he died at some point during the 1970s which saw the rise of the 'pimp' culture we most often see being evoked today. We also know that he tends to be quite immature (especially around his fellow Vees) to the extent (and I say this without anything being confirmed) I'd wager there's a high likelihood that he died quite young, perhaps even younger than Velvette even though he's been in Hell longer.
My personal death speculation is that he died of disease (most likely an STI). I think the fact he is one of the few sinners with a notable disability (his low vision) might speak to the profound impact the disease had on his body/health. A problem I see with this idea, though, is that it's a bit too grounded in realism and that doesn't really seem to be something the show is after lol... so who's to say.
I just think there's so much you can really explore here by delving into a more complicated history/past that goes on to not only further Valentino's characterization, but Angel's as well. If Valentino is perpetuating the cycle of abuse then the question of whether Angel will continue it as well becomes a major point of contention. I don't think Angel would, personally, in fact I think a really interesting storyline for him would be demystifying the terrifying image he has of Valentino once he finally peels back Valentino's true layers and reveals the deeply insecure person beneath, but it would certainly be a satisfying story beat to have Angel navigate.
And, regarding Valentino's insecurities for a brief moment as I think they too are relevant in this discussion, I find it interesting that we are presented with them constantly and he is frequently the king of projection (calling Angel addict trash, calling Charlie fat, his blatant self doubt regarding how Vox views/treats him in the latter half of S2).
On that note, I also think there's something fascinating to explore in his passivity with Vox, particularly this last season. That he was constantly making excuses for Vox and trying to mentally justify his behavior is very interesting. It definitely chips away at the self-assured, confident image we've thus far been shown of him. Your 'classic' most 'stereotypical' pimp is meant to ooze confident masculinity and self-assured strength/power... that is not at all the Valentino we saw this season save when he finally snapped and beheaded Vox out of unconditional love/desperation.
Idk... I personally hope the show takes this route of exploring Valentino as a more complex individual/villain whose past reveals (but does not justify) why he is causing such great harm/must be stopped rather than going the uncreative and nauseatingly boring 'he's evil just to be evil and he's always been evilly evil' route. So far, they've laid some interesting groundwork this season. I think when given this kind of depth, it's a really compelling concept and potentially presents a far more interesting story of a victim going on to perpetuate the cycle of abuse (a very real reality) that would also create further parallels to Angel wherein Valentino took the 'wrong' path and Angel is eventually able to break the cycle and take the 'right' path.
We will have to wait to see, but so far the way Valentino acts in his personal life just absolutely does not give 'classic pimp through-and-through' at all and none of the takes trying to make that argument (at this point) have really sold me on the idea given what we are shown in the source material.
There's also such dark tragedy in exploring the idea that Valentino may not know any other life outside of sexual exploitation or that he believes his survival (and perhaps even his general self esteem) depends on inflicting the same pain/exploitation he experienced onto others as he claws his way to the top so that it never happens to him again...
It makes what he does to Angel that much worse, because he KNOWS exactly what he's doing/the damage it can leave behind and he is, perhaps, becoming just like the people who he used to hate/despise and who once exploited/abused him.
EDIT: I should add just to further clarify, the conflation of the 'sex worker' being illustrated as more 'feminine' and the 'pimp' as more 'masculine' is an expectation of assigned roles built within the culture itself. This is not to say there are never and have never been feminine/female pimps or masculine/male prostitutes because that's flat-out untrue, rather this analysis is largely playing on the standard expectations one might have of these roles (yes, building off of expected present/historical stereotypes) to try and paint a picture of what we may be seeing here for the purpose of analysis. If the dynamic the show operates on truly was a great aberration of the norm, then we the audience could expect to have seen more indicators showing/hinting at this being a new normal (especially at this stage) and we have not.
Major props to @/ValBonded on Twitter who had many of Valentino's outfits compiled.
TLDR: Valentino = moth = symbolism for past as a sex worker.
(Lol, I really spent all this space just for that simple thesis).
Saw someone comment "what if this is foreshadowing for Valentino getting caught walking into a spider's web next season" as a throwaway joke about this image but I think they might REALLY be cooking with that idea - especially since we now know there was quite a bit of pretty direct S2 Vox foreshadowing from S1.
Things to consider:
Moths are fragile and a natural prey to spiders and we know Angel's family members (all spiders) will feature heavily in the next season.
We also know Angel's relationship to his family was supposedly quite tenuous and potentially abusive (?) as well, given what is implied to have happened with Angel's dad.
Angel's family are also theorized to be heavily involved in crime/the mafia and are likely capable of some pretty heinous/high-stakes stuff (obviously it was enough to land them in Hell).
Valentino, now the head of Voxtek, might be considered a pretty lucrative target and he's clearly not always the brightest/might be deep underwater/struggling to run the company next season even with Velvette's help. Maybe this results in him letting his guard down.
So, the question on my mind then is...
Does Angel's family capture/kidnap Valentino at some point to get back at Angel or lure him out because they want revenge and/or to confront him about the patricide?
I know many have theorized that Angel's family (sans Molly) were homophobic, with the father (who, again, we still don't really know anything about, this is all just theory) being outright abusive to Angel due to his sexuality. How would they treat a kidnapped Valentino who, for all they maybe know, is a flamboyant man that is at times seen to be romantically involved with Angel (though, I don't know if this is public in-universe knowledge or not) and/or, at the very least, is responsible for promoting Angel as a gay porn star across all of Hell? Valentino whump would not have been on my bingo card, but you never know with this show and I'm sure some would find it fitting/cathartic.
Do the Vees then have to extend an olive branch to the Hotel and seek out their help given they're likely still busy trying to salvage their empire and can't manage a rescue on their own? Is this where we see Vox start to swallow his pride, turn over a new leaf, acknowledge how much the Vees mean to him (etc, etc, basically jumpstarting the Vox redemption arc they seem to be hinting) so he can save Valentino/reconcile with him?
I kind of theorized that part of Valentino's contract with Angel was that he (as an Overlord) would be providing Angel protection from his family in addition to making Angel famous and in exchange for Angel's work/compliance at the studio... maybe if Valentino is captured/unable to meet his end of that bargain, it leads to Angel being freed.
Once freed from his contract (maybe also seeing Valentino in a new, helpless light that helps demystify his fear of him) and presented with a Valentino who is still tied up and vulnerable, does Angel take revenge? If we learn more about Valentino's past in the middle of all this and the popular past victim/sex worker backstory theories of him repeating the cycle of abuse prove to be true, how does Angel react (if he somehow learns of this)?
Does Vox, another of Angel's direct abusers, have to beg him for Valentino's life?
For fans of redemption for the Vees, I really think one of the only (satisfying) ways you're going to realistically be able to do it, is if you really strip them down completely and force them to contend with being at rock bottom again. They may well be powerless once all is said and done (and with a pretty nasty list of enemies awaiting their downfall to boot), but I think the fact that even within that struggle they will still have each other to rely on and clearly care so deeply for one another (dare I say unconditional love), hints that their familial love is what will ultimately give them a chance.
Maybe, somehow, this plot is the one that finally brings Vox, Velvette, and Valentino down to their lowest (on top of everything lingering from last season) and it seriously forces them to start soul searching/reassess as a collective, with the culmination of that coming to a head in S4 (OR Velvette is overdue her own crash-out in S4 and Vox/Valentino have to save her from herself meaning S5 is the rebuilding arc OR they ultimately end up 'still needing to work on themselves' at the end of the series and that is what leads into their spin-off).
It also kind of feels like we'll see two diverging plots this upcoming season just based on creator comments so far. If Charlie is too tied up in Lilith/Morningstar drama to help out (she already seems kind of weirdly checked out of Angel's redemption journey right now and I'm not saying this is a good thing lol, I actually think it's kind of weird, but this is just an observation) it would further raise the stakes of this unfolding drama with Angel's family, if only to remove her (and the Morningstars) as an all-powerful ex machina and also give more spotlight to Angel within his own story.
Who would have thought one little still frame and a random comment would inspire so many questions/ideas, lol?
So... we see that Vox's approval ratings are obviously tanking but Valentino's are high and there's a livestream of him hanging in the wires outside the tower that Vox has his eyes on.
Was hanging there... boosting Valentino's popularity for some reason?? What were they even reacting to on the livestream?? Was the edging comment he makes later actually relevant? Is Valentino always/frequently being livestreamed (we know Vox always has cameras on him)? Does this in some way contribute to why he is being used as the face of the Vees in the interim?
I don't know why this random detail is so intriguing to me lol.
(I have terrible eyes but if there is actual text there I'd love to know what it says)
Hazbin Hotel Season 2 Finale: The Good, Bad, Ugly + Predictions
**Hazbin Hotel S3 Finale Spoilers**
So much has already been said and, honestly, I think it's at least a little bit funny that so many people from all different corners of the fandom are disappointed, but these were the main thoughts I personally had along with predictions for S3 at the end. Buckle up, it's a long one.
The Bad:
1.) Vox's backstory was ASS. No wonder Valentino was so underwhelmed at the very beginning of the season when Vox started talking about this shit again. So he's just another callous murderer? Really? Ugh, it feels so uninspired. Alastor's background was already stupid/made little sense but here we go again...
My expectations are so low for these backstories going forward now which is a shame because they feel like they should be CENTRAL to the characters. The writers know there are other big 'wrongdoings' out there, right? It's bad when we are in 'fans are writing better theories/meta than the show itself' territory and that's a big red flag for future seasons (in my opinion).
Yes, his backstory was different than what I personally envisioned, but I always knew that it would be... I did like the one far more likely (again, imo) fan theory about Vox being a terrible father/husband too devoted to his career/work since I think that would have really played into his selfishness/self-centeredness especially since it heavily connected to what he was putting his new family, the Vees, through this season. What we got in the end, though, was just such a waste and with such a hideous (sorry) human design too. I get that this show doesn't really want to be grounded in any realism given the other evidence we have but wow... and to think I was even preparing myself to be disappointed and that backstory STILL managed to piss me off lol. Ugh, and we know Angel's is going to be another artificial murder story too. Yawn.
2.) I'm still confused... so the winners in Heaven don't care AT ALL that sinners were being exterminated and wanted revenge?? No one in Heaven has a loved one they knew 'wasn't perfect' but is now stuck in Hell that they're worried about??? We are told there are more sinners than winners and I think we can safely assume there would be a shit ton more altruists among the winners who would rightfully be HORRIFIED that Heaven was conducting a genocide, but instead they're all sucking their thumbs like toddlers in a fucking ball pit??? Ugh, what IS THIS lol. It's gross and weird. Speaking of which... really seems like we're just giving Heaven a get-of-jail-free card on that whole genocide front, huh... like somehow Vox, one singular sinner, going off the deep end for 10 minutes (not even successfully invading them btw) cancels out all the horror and permadeath Hell had to endure during the Exterminations for multiple years... okay...
More under cut.
3.) Alastor. He has lost all intimidation and is doing nothing for me. He is just as whiny and petty as Vox is but is treated far lighter (if that's even possible) by the narrative. With him being the next big villain I'm hoping this will change... but he's a writer's pet so I have low expectations. Was generally very disappointed with his character arc this season, but I need to ruminate on this more since specific instances/examples aren't necessarily coming to mind.
Also, so I'm understanding correctly, when Charlie deems Vox the most powerful sinner in Hell (which I'm still not sold on how her random admission would affect Alastor's contract with Rosie, but, whatever) he then becomes the most powerful again due to his agreement with Rosie? And that's why he was able to easily go toe-to-toe with Vox? I'll have to rewatch the scenes for myself, I guess, but I don't feel like revisiting it right away.
4.) This is so petty lol, but why do Baxter and Pentious even understand high-level modern-day technology? I guess you had to write something to get the broadcast working but they're from very outdated time periods and don't seem to even be doing technical science (Pentious more than Baxter). Pentious looks like he does steampunk design-work and Baxter is a biochemist... I was just side-eyeing this thread the whole time, it felt like a kids show (a gripe I've had for much of this season actually) like somehow they're just 'general geniuses' and randomly good at all science.
The Ugly:
1.) Lute. Oooooof. She is a ticking time bomb and that's fine but wow, my jaw actually dropped when I saw how dirty they did her with pathetic ass Abel (this character really annoys me btw, the show does not need more bumbling buffoon types) humiliating her like that... I kind of think we had Gravity too early and maybe better pacing would have helped here (like maybe we could have seen her descent into madness progress more slowly), but holy shit was I surprised to see her just stand down like that after all the buildup. She is vile and has an incredibly fucked up mentality (I hope she gets a chance to heal and they don't go an Azula from ATLA route - Azula deserved better) but I need her to get some help and/or character progression STAT.
2.) The Angel whump. WHY. I don't really see how or why Vox needed Angel AT ALL for his final plan. Maybe I missed something, but it seems like a completely contrived way to simply revert Angel's progress. Having Angel spy in some way is one thing (ie. this is how Vox knew he couldn't be smited - though I think you could have also just used Baxter for this purpose and cut out the 'hypnosis' plot completely) but to torture him in such a gratuitous 'muhahaha' sequence with Vox just to doll him up and have him insult the hotel for 5 minutes? Whhhy? The hotel's reputation was already trashed by that point, Lucifer is what drew Charlie to the party, and we've already been told Angel isn't even that famous lol (Valentino talks about how he hasn't been doing jobs and is 'falling off')? So, again, why? What did this add?
This was so unnecessary and provided nothing to the plot. I guess it made him a damsel in distress for Husk? But, I just didn't care for it, especially since they (Husk/Cherri) literally let him walk away anyways at the end... Imo it regressed Angel and Valentino unnecessarily. And now we're going to have to sit through them rehashing Angel's trauma, again, which they've already established in season one. I really think Angel should have been freed from his contract this episode so more focus could be put on his family drama and actually looking into why he is in hell and what he needs to do to be redeemed for next season. We really need to be doing more with him at this point.
3.) The childish writing is exhausting. Is this an adult show or not? I hesitate to also call the fandom out in this too, but I do think there's an issue with far too many children watching the show (especially with the lack of media literacy I'm seeing in a number of 'takes' online right now) - and that worries me given some of the heavier topics explored in the show. To be fair to them, though, the 'this could be a kid's show' label gets reinforced every time the show gives in to its poor tonal writing and refuses to tackle more challenging concepts or conflict.
It is a universe with SO much potential, it has many interesting characters (some with more intrigue than others), yet it throws all this aside way too frequently in favor of crappy dialogue, black-and-white/cartoonish backstories, mediocre explorations of morality, and far too many contrived plot points (and plot holes). I just wish it was more elevated. At this point, I don't think it ever will be, but it does suck to see what could have been. The worst offenders of this are characters like Lucifer, Charlie, Emily, and, more broadly, most of the Heaven characters. They just think, speak, and behave like children constantly. They are far too naïve for people who should be all-knowing, ancient beings.
The Good:
1.) Velvette solidarity with Valentino was peak. I think it's pretty clear she is now pulling the strings and Valentino is merely the pretty face out front while Vox recovers. I am very happy the found family is preserved and I'm looking forward to Vox begging them for forgiveness/seeing them further define their established loyalties to one another.
Also, Velvette pulling her limbs back together, having very cool powers, and just in general her looks this season? Excellent. Valentino repeatedly being a tank/monster of a fighter and ripping Vox's head off while also shaking off the fight with Husk/Cherri? Damn. They definitely reiterated why these two are Overlords (like, oh, they fought for their place at the top) and I really liked that they stood by Vox and saved him from himself. People have already pointed it out, but the Vees continue to feel like better found family rep than anyone at the hotel (hopefully next season expands on the hotel family in turn).
I also like that we humanized Velvette and Valentino more this season. As I've said before, I get that this opinion isn't popular with the crowd that wants black-and-white morality and blanket eternal punishment over any rehabilitative efforts that actually work towards harm reduction (even though this is the 'anyone can be redeemed' show) but I think it adds a lot more depth to the harmful actions they go on to choose to do and a lot of people seem to be missing that. They know how to be supportive and loving to one another but they still choose to be bad to others. It's that choice they are actively shown being very capable of making that presents the question of what it will take for them to finally choose to stop causing harm and instead choose to do good.
Backstories aside, at least in this season we see that Valentino clearly understands how painful it is to be ignored, tossed aside, and looked down on by someone he respects/loves. Velvette clearly understands how painful it is to see a friend (in this case Valentino) being treated poorly but who still defends/goes back to a person who is actively making them miserable. Yet both of them do not apply this understanding to others and not only that, they are also actively creating these same, negative circumstances/conditions for others around them.
Y'all this is NUANCE and it is surprisingly good for this mid-ass show to highlight lol, you should want characters to have these contradictions and dimensions within themselves because it makes them far more interesting. Now we (the viewers) need to ask ourselves why the Vees cannot (or will not) apply these feelings they have among themselves to others around them. What will it take for them to stop causing harm?
This show is first and foremost about redemption (the voice of God literally absolved Sera for her complicity in genocide at the start of the season so let's be real about what we're working with) and, yes, because of that theme I personally want to see some of the worst of the worst try to make some progress/improve even if it doesn't mean they're ending up at the pearly gates. In fact, I think the Vees would HATE life in Heaven anyways lmao (that would be their REAL punishment), so I'm ultimately holding out hope that their long-term story arc is they get to stay in Hell and work with Charlie as leaders who, eventually, make life for sinners a little better/safer so those that want a more risqué afterlife can have it (Heaven looks so patronizingly terrible from what we've seen so far) and those who want to be redeemed can make their way to the Hotel and safely access redemption that way.
2.) Oy, I know this is unpopular... but I liked that everyone came together to stop the weapon in the end. Yes, it was juvenile. But I do think it fit with the show's central theme and was on brand (because this show IS fucking juvenile lol). I think it also reiterates Charlie's point that anyone can be redeemed IF they make the active choice to do so. Obviously no one was redeemed by this alone but it showed that even some of the worst of the worst can come together and work towards a common goal. I didn't hate it. I also liked that it was the Vees themselves who saved Vox from himself in the end.
**Edit: I reordered these to end on a more positive note.
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Season 3 Predictions
So I learned a bit more about the next season through osmosis (there was an interview with the creator and certain clips from it have been floating around) and it sounds like these first 2 seasons were made to establish everything for season 3 which she implied is the main season/the one that got the show greenlit.
That to me reads as the season will predominately focus on rehabilitating sinners since there are no longer any obstacles:
People believe in the hotel.
Charlie's reputation is good.
Relations with Heaven are good.
Redemption was proven possible.
Charlie is now in the role of a counselor.
Charlie is giving her full attention to the hotel.
No exterminations.
Overlords are largely in-check.
Check, check, check: all the boxes are good. In theory, those who want to be redeemed have every reason now to give it a shot.
Since she confirmed the next season will have Angel's family as VAs, it sounds like it will be a lot more scaled down and focused more on interpersonal relationships and healing.
In the background I believe we'll have Alastor as the major villain (he is freed and wants to be pulling all the strings - not to mention, he still owns Husk)... what his main plot will be I have no idea. The show also seems interested in exploring more with Lilith (who knows if she'll be on the 'good' side or not) and Lute will likely be kept on the backburner as a ticking time bomb as well (possibly connected to Lilith).
In comparison, I think the more minor villains for now will be Valentino/the Vees and Angel's family. No doubt they'll still be impactful, but I can't see them enacting mastermind-level, large-scale BBEG plots like the aforementioned characters likely will.
I've already written about my hope for Angel's time with Valentino in Season 3... but I'm really hoping his contract drama is resolved relatively early and rather quickly so more time can be spent on his family drama and healing with Husk/Cherri since those are NEW plot points that feel more relevant. We've had the contract for two seasons now with no progress on it and I think it's time to move on and show that, that alone is not really what is holding Angel back -- there's still so much unresolved trauma that has to be addressed first for him to heal before he can seek redemption.
I think it would be interesting/most fitting to see Valentino 'throw him away' for being 'broken' at this point (as explained in my earlier post, this is something we've already seen hints of in both Valentino's own interest in Angel waning and in Angel's assertion that 'being broken' is the only way out for him) and it would then pave the way to explore how Angel now struggles to know what to do with himself/be his own person after what he has endured.
It would be interesting to see if the main theme of Season 3 ends up being solely about healing for all the characters:
Charlie healing her relationship with her parents. Maybe throw Lucifer in there repairing his relationship with Lilith.
Vaggie healing from her past as an exorcist (very interested to know more about what is going on there).
Angel, obviously, healing from his abuse/trauma (both with Valentino and his family).
Husk (FINGERS CROSSED) working on himself/his own vices and (FINGERS CROSSED) figuring a way out of his deal with Alastor.
And, of course, the Vees repairing their relationships with Vox/coming back together as a family.
In that vein, the more indulgent things I'd like to see for S3:
1.) More Vee Backstories/Found Family. How the three of them met, who they were beforehand, etc. I keep saying it just to manifest it, but I really think exploring Valentino as a victim in his past life (most likely related to sex work) and now responding to his trauma in an extremely harmful/negative would be not only 1.) good for this fandom to contend with/challenge a lot of the rigid black-and-white morality I see so many people applying to many of the characters, 2.) create further parallels between him and Angel (ultimately highlighting how Angel could have followed Valentino's path but is actively choosing a better, healthier way to move forward), and 3.) be realistic given the other bits of characterization we see for Valentino throughout the show. I also really want to dive into Velvette's backstory as well.
2.) Vaggie's Background. I have had this lingering theory that the exorcists likely had to undergo extremely harsh, Red Room-levels of training. I really want to explore Vaggie's trauma with that experience and have the focus be on her for once over Charlie. I like that they keep peppering in bits and pieces from her time as an exorcist and I hope it really gets a spotlight. It will also be interesting to explore her trauma of being an exorcist more generally ESPECIALLY as she is now actively in the process of redeeming (and getting to know on a personal level) so many sinners she might have otherwise mercilessly slaughtered not too long ago. That has to do a number on you mentally.
3.) Husk Recovery Arc. Begging on my knees for it. We focus so much on Angel but we've still only scratched the surface of Husk's alcoholism and gambling addiction. I see people wanting him to gamble for Angel's soul and that seems... so counterintuitive? Gambling obviously destroyed his life and he is constantly surrounded by his vices (it's still so bizarre they have him as the bartender when he has an alcohol problem), it would be great to give him and his recovery some time to take center stage. Not to mention, I hope we get more details into his past as an Overlord and the guilt he maybe now has in ruining/owning the lives of others (especially being on the other end of it now) AND that we explore what will be required to break him free from Alastor's grasp.
4.) Angel's Backstory. Again, on my knees begging that it is not the predictable, uninspiring, boring ass 'his dad was abusive and he killed his dad because of it' backstory they're setting up. I'll be SO disappointed. Let. These. Characters. Be. Complex. I think Angel being a mobster means he should have done some pretty heinous shit that he needs to answer for. It doesn't negate the fact he is a victim now (and was likely abused by his father too) but I would LOVE to see it explored that he's not only 'paying' for the murder of his father (maybe, in fact, the universe has already declared it justice/in self-defense, I don't know), rather he is paying for all the drugs he knowingly sold to addicts on their last legs, all the women he widowed during wars between the rival families, the murders he helped cover up, etc. If it ends up being another lame, childish backstory that adds nothing to the complexity of the universe's moral system or his character's journey then ugh. Predictable, but ugh.
5.) Morality System Explored. I would love to see Charlie have to contend with the fact that Hell, as it is currently structured, encourages sinners to be the worst versions of themselves. I really love the idea of someone like Valentino having significantly lesser 'crimes' to answer for in his past life but to then really have to address how he became x10 worse than he ever could have imagined because of the gauntlet Hell puts people through - like for his own survival (and coping) he became the worst version of himself. What does that say about the kingdom of Hell that Charlie/Lucifer rule? If they truly want sinners to become better, but they're potentially standing by while the system they preside over creates new Valentino's, Vox's, and Alastor's then are they not making their goals of redemption harder to achieve? Something must change within Hell (most notably the Overlord system itself) to avoid situations where people become worse simply because 'it's Hell' and 'it's expected'.
Also, how are the crimes and wrongdoings committed while alive weighed against those committed in death? What happens if someone is there for cheating on dying spouse (morally pretty bad but not the worst possible thing) but they go on to become a mass murderer after every extermination season because that's what everyone else is doing or they figure out how to buy up souls and are now causing more harm that way, etc.?
Pentious didn't actually answer for any of the bad stuff he did in Hell (even though we see him vying to be an Overlord and engaging in turf wars - yes, he apologized for spying, but that was it), they really only focused on how his single act of bravery 'redeemed' him from his sin of being a coward and not reporting crimes (never mind the victims of his cowardice are never actually addressed or given any justice through his act of bravery....... but I digress)... does that mean if someone like Valentino overcomes his relatively 'minor-in-comparison' earthly sins (think of something like grand theft auto, I'm just throwing out an example here of an act that is criminal but not comic-book-level evil) are his actions in Hell then ignored by the greater system? I would obviously hope not (that's incredibly unsatisfying), but I must ask the question lol and I do want the answer...
6.) Charlie Learning About Humanity. I really think so many of Charlie's issues stem from the fact she doesn't understand what it means to be human and what humans are faced with on a day-to-day basis. I think now that the show is really centering the hotel and rehabilitating sinners this will be a big wake-up call for her.
Sometimes a sorry just won't cut it. True redemption can take a lot of time (which they DO have given they're already dead, this is why I really love the setting). The therapies she employs will have to be highly individualized and not having a firm understanding of the many shades of grey humans endure, the systemic oppression, the multiple failures in the system, etc and how all these factors impact the experiences sinners will have lived in their life... how can she possibly relate to them? I want to see her grapple with this.
How can she possibly understand concepts like racism, socio-economic disparities, mental illness, persecution, etc. when she has no frame of reference? She doesn't even understand Japanese lol, how is she going to help sinners of all backgrounds if she doesn't know their cultures and histories and how these are extremely relevant factors in influencing the decisions they made both in life and the ones they're making now?
---
Alright... that's all I have for now. Much to think on. The show continues to disappoint, obviously, and not quite live up to its expectations. I recognize it's not very well written and I think it unintentionally targets (and brings in) a much younger audience than it should, but it does always give me a lot to think about regardless and I still can't help but be intrigued by its central premise.
Oh, and the Vees. They did get me hooked on the Vees lol. I really want to see how awful people might learn to be less awful and I continue to enjoy the loyalty they have to one another - it's both charming and entertaining (plus it drives the conflict that keeps this show interesting).
EDIT: Moved the 'read more' because my god I didn't realize this ended up being so long.
Not to defend the writing in this show which consistently ends up being ass (lol) but I keep seeing people upset that Valentino is being portrayed as the 'new leader' over Velvette (who they're saying is being shafted) and I'm a bit confused because I really doubt that Valentino is somehow completely 'taking over' in the sense they're implying.
What we know:
We are only shown this new dynamic through a Voxtek news broadcast which we know is notoriously false/serves as a propaganda tool. The news in Hell being unreliable is a concept constantly reinforced throughout this series. Charlie LITERALLY says the Vees 'found a way to spin it' please, y'all...
We know that Velvette is the one who is repeatedly leading Valentino - she does it all throughout the finale. Ie. Velvette is the one who tells Valentino 'no' when he's about to be distracted by Vox losing it, Velvette is the one who kicks Vox and triggers the reset of the Vees, Velvette is the one who brings Valentino over to help at the very end.
Let's be real, Valentino really doesn't seem to have higher ambitions beyond being a kept trophy wife with artistic freedom. His part in the 'I want' song is all about Vox and keeping their family together... does he like power? Absolutely, but we've been repeatedly shown he cares more about his loyalty to the other Vees.
We are also shown again and again that Velvette and Valentino are in-sync with one another. This is further evidenced by their outfit coordination which frequently serves as a more subtle way of signaling this. They are literally wearing the same thing at the end of the episode.
My guess is that Velvette is absolutely the one pulling the strings because we are shown she is far more competent at it (especially when compared to Valentino). Valentino also takes direction well and we watch him routinely defer to Velvette.
The way I interpret that final scene is that Valentino is literally just the new face man, at least from that brief bit we are shown. Velvette gets to dress him all pretty, he says his lines, then he gets to go back to make whatever 'films' he wants, and lets her lead things.
My money is on:
Vox regenerating (there would be no reason for him not to regenerate his body) and maybe keeping the technical side of their business up-to-speed since he can still (I'd assume) manifest within technology pretty easily -- but generally keeping a lower profile until things smooth over.
Velvette taking a much larger role in the operational management of the company/directing and managing Valentino (ie. backbone of the Vees).
And Valentino being shown as the 'pretty face' of the company and reading whatever scripts Velvette is giving him.
My hope is also that my theory for Angel's story arc comes true and we can focus more on the Vees rebuilding/taking this new angle in the background (at least where their storylines are concerned). I think the Vees/Valentino being the villain again next season would be a really bad move - the stakes need to be higher and we've already seen what they're capable of.
I don't know... I don't disagree with the takes that the show runners can't write female characters (because wtf did they do to Lute omg) BUT knowing what we do of Velvette I'm just saying if she wanted to be the face, she would have been the damn face... nothing was in her way and I'd guarantee Valentino would encourage it. He adores her lol.
I will likely have more thoughts later, but I'm wondering how they'll spin Angel trying to reintegrate with the Vees (ngl, all the Angel whump has been a bit gratuitous and I'm not really looking forward to more of it, I think we're overdue an Angel recovery arc).
I still think it's meaningful that they've shown Val to be so displeased with what Angel has become AND that Angel's original admission to Husk was that his only hope was 'he'd be too broken' for Valentino to want anymore (paraphrasing).
So it makes me wonder if he'll try to go back to Valentino, but Valentino will now be too busy fronting for the Vees, rebuilding his family, AND have fallen out of obsession with Angel to the extent that he does drop Angel and this ultimately leads to Angel seeking out his family (or his family hunting him for revenge, depending on what the backstory will be).
This is pure theory, but I've always thought Angel sold his soul to Valentino partially because he 1.) loved Val but also 2.) because he needed protection from his family that are down in Hell with him. So I'm thinking some elements there might come into play and maybe the only thing keeping Angel safe from his family was Valentino's status as an Overlord.
My hope is they shift to focus more on Angel's family drama and we might be spared from more of the SA whump montages. I also think it would further the character development for the Vees... I am delusionally hoping this is a major 'reset' for them and their storylines will focus more on rebuilding trust with each other because I still desperately want a Vees spin-off and I just really enjoy the insanity they've got going on lol.
So... is the Vees spin-off just a pipe dream or might we actually be getting that?
Because now I can't stop picturing a post-fall from grace Vees-centric show that depicts them losing everything BUT the little found family they've formed and focusing on how that connection to one another is what ultimately redeems them in the end.
I think it would be fascinating to see them starting all the way at the bottom again and (potentially) addressing the lingering feelings over Vox's betrayal or (more broadly) his poor treatment of Valentino/Velvette these past few episodes. I want to see Vox begging for their forgiveness and Valentino/Velvette ultimately relenting (with conditions) because they ARE a family and now more than ever they have to stick together.
It would also be interesting to see what skills/coping mechanisms they all fall back on. I could see Valentino pretty seamlessly returning to sex work, using his body like he always has to survive. Would Vox need to scavenge for scraps of technology to rebuild his information systems/get himself back up and running? How would Velvette cope as a younger ex-Overlord who had JUST gotten a taste of life at the top? Now it's gone, just like that - surely that would sting.
At the end of the day, though, they're all resourceful. They've built so much individually and as a team, it only makes sense they would eventually manage to cockroach through. They clawed their way to the top once and I could totally see them all trying to do it again.
Are they anonymous now? Do they view this fresh start as a chance to completely rewrite themselves? Did they sign contracts with someone to retain their powers (a la Husk)? Did Charlie order them to community service and therapy as part of their punishment (forcing the three of them to have a sit-down group session with her once a week, lol)?
I just think it has the potential to be a fun and heartfelt show while also giving the writers a chance to better worldbuild, particularly with what Hell is like for the average sinner at the bottom - not one who is an Overlord or in proximity to the royal family.
One of the ideas I hope even the main show explores at some point are the systemic issues inherent to life in Hell that primes all these negative conditions wherein sinners find themselves incentivized to be awful to one another just to eke ahead and survive. If Charlie wants more people at her hotel and in a place where they are ready for self-improvement, she needs to first make sure they're not still stuck in this constant, violent survival mode. Showing how terrible the conditions are at the bottom, through the Vees in this make-believe spin-off, I think would highlight some of those problems.
The more I think about it, the more the idea just seems really fun to me - especially because it would feature three characters who previously served as antagonists which has so much room to be entertaining. One of the reasons I personally enjoy 'villains' so much is that they're often given more liberty (in a lot of cases, not all) to just be more human. We get to see them being more selfish, have deeper negative emotions, make mistakes, take the easy way out of things, etc. than we typically get to see from the 'good guys' and I love that. Their stories are more relatable in all the worst ways simply because they don't always make the 'best' choices... and when they do make the selfless choice or take the high road, it resonates even more because we know they are actively choosing a different path.
Also what an opportunity to slowly reveal more of their backstories too. If they're falling back on the skillset they had before being granted all the power of an overlord, what does that say about them and the life they've led prior? A Valentino who seems completely at-home living out of a cheap motel room and navigating the seedier parts of town says something, for example. There's just a lot of fun storytelling potential here and it can also deepen their interpersonal relations as they help one another adjust.
Anyways... I'm just preemptively seeking the 'comfort' before the 'hurt' we're probably going to get this coming week, lol.
I'm about to be the 'too woke' friend so forgive me, but some of y'all are getting a little too comfortable mocking people with visual impairments just because you're presenting it in the context of a character you dislike... vision loss and being low vision/blind can be extremely difficult, depressing, and isolating.
As someone who has gone through major vision changes due to a very painful lifelong eye disease, some of the 'Valentino is blind LOLOLOL' jokes are landing a little flat.
To the writers/fans/artists that explore Valentino as a person with a visual impairment meaningfully and with depth - I see you and I appreciate you.
Shocked that I didn't dislike these episodes, 5 + 6, as much as the previous so fair warning these aren't as negative as usual (I still think 3 + 4 were a complete travesty)...
>>Spoilers<<
1.) I think they're actually doing a good job weaponizing valid critique within Vox's manipulation of Hell. Pointing out the sheer absurdity of Heaven bringing GIFT BASKETS as an apology for genocide and rightfully calling it insidious is 100% on the money. A part of me wishes we would go further than that and have used it as a moment of growth for Charlie (ie. this could have been a moment of reflection for her where she realizes her juvenile approaches to apologies/redemption are actually incredibly harmful and sinners are NOT receptive to them meaning she desperately needs to course correct/redevelop her program), but I guess we have to take what we can get. Having so much valid critique mixed in does a good job, in my opinion, of making Vox's arguments all the more compelling even though he obviously doesn't believe in these arguments himself. I also think it works better than just mass-brainwashing the crowd and goes a long way in highlighting Vox's charisma/social intelligence.
2.) The pacing is STILL off. Though, somehow it seemed a little bit better these episodes (or maybe I just enjoyed the extra time we spent with the Vees so I'm biased)? But, like always, it was still rushed and trying to accomplish too many things. The 'actually you've been brainwashed this whole time, Angel, muhahaha' plot felt very... cheap and thrown together? Lol. Why did they send Pentious to the hotel then? What did Vox originally think he was getting out of the hotel if the brainwashing started so early? I could buy that he was just doing it to spy on Alastor until he learned more/could develop his current BBEG plot, but idk feels underbaked.
It felt like the other Overlords were a bit too quick to hop onto Vox's plan - like I found it odd that Alastor still had such weight/importance in their minds (especially when we are repeatedly reminded that his reputation has taken a significant blow during his 7-year disappearance) that somehow this rushed 'Alastor Defeat' was enough to shake up Hell's power structure so notably. Not that I want to spend a ton of time with random new side characters though, lol.
We're also speedrunning the Vees breakup which feels a little fast for me after all of them were pretty quick to reiterate their loyalties to one another not too long ago, but I believe we're supposed to pin all this on 'genius mastermind' (groan) Alastor. I was very pleasantly surprised the scenes with Vox-Alastor weren't so gratuitous this episode. Counting blessings where we get them.
EDIT: To clarify, I think we NEED this tension between the Vees to keep the plot moving. I think my critique stems more from the fact that Alastor is the only real catalyst of this. It just seems kind of lame especially because we know his beef with Vox is so stupid. I'd rather see the actual interpersonal dynamics of the Vees come under strain rather than Alastor sniping Vox's braincells in real-time during any scene they're sharing together. It seems a bit too dramatized/goofy/rushed in a way that detracts from how clever/intelligentwe see Vox being in other moments.
3.) This is incredibly petty of me and obviously subjective but I personally think Angel's drag look was ugly as hell. I just thought the design/execution looked messy rather than the 'beautiful' I think they were going for. There was something really off about the glitter effect? Obviously it was a nod to Jessica Rabbit but knowing that made it feel even more lackluster in comparison (like this show WISHES it could make something this iconic). Also... how much free time does Angel have? They seem torn between 'he is always under Valentino's control 24/7' to, actually he can fuck off and do whatever he wants including being a drag queen at some random casino in his free time.
4.) Keith David, holy hell. He is one of my FAVORITE actors/VAs of all-time and damn, lol, this show does not deserve him. Even though the song wasn't my favorite, his voice is just incredible here. That being said, I wish we would actually explore Husk's past (there is obviously a lot they can do here to talk about addiction, especially when it comes to gambling which I think would be really timely) but this is not the season for it with so much else going on, so I'm glad we're getting the introduction now and I'm hoping we can build up to giving it the complexity/depth it needs later. Even as a Husk enjoyer I'm glad we're not trying to shove in too much for him right now with so much else going on.
5.) Sigh... the montage of people actually being in the hotel and getting garbage therapy was... disappointing. Charlie is doing all this buffoonery to try and get people through the door when she doesn't even have an actual redemption PROGRAM to run.
So what do people actually DO at this hotel? Lodge for free, drink at the bar (seems wildly counterintuitive when you have sinners who likely struggle with alcohol addiction), and get yelled at/called stupid for an hour? Again, this was the MAIN sell of the show. As someone who was brought in by this concept alone, I'm just so underwhelmed.
6.) The Vox and Valentino moments are great. I've always found them really interesting both as individuals but especially as team members and (maybe?) whatever the hell they're doing beyond that.
I read a theory once where they thought that Vox probably fell first, but Valentino fell harder and I think we're certainly seeing that in a lot of the characterization they're giving to Valentino right now. Valentino this season looks to be constantly overworking his two braincells to mentally justify Vox's behavior even though he clearly doesn't like it... and it's all quite interesting (truly Latinos for Trump ahh behavior smh lol...). It also, at least to me, gives more weight to past sex worker Valentino (which I will forever be manifesting as I think it adds a lot to both his and Angel's stories) and I think there's a ton of insecurity still ruminating within Valentino that I hope we get a chance to explore (delusional, I know, just let me have this).
I also really enjoy that Valentino is the first to remind Vox they are a team and to repeatedly include Velvette. The Valentino-Velvette friendship/solidarity dynamic is very important to me, I really like that they look out for each other. She knew his ass was about to give Vox another pass in the dressing room and was right there to back him up.
Also, credit where it's due, there have also been A LOT of little animation moments that reveal Valentino's conflicting feelings which is a surprising touch for this show, I'm liking that they're at least trying their hand at some subtlety even if the core plot is still pretty obvious lol.
I want to see the three of them pull through, I want Valentino and Velvette to pick up the pieces of this soon-to-be disaster and still be there for Vox when he comes back to his senses. I wondered if Vaggie's 'Cause anyone who finds love in Hell, Can do anything, baby' line in her song with Charlie was a potential hint at this since so many of the friends/romantic pairings seem to be following similar progressions to one another right now (ie. this was the 'breakup/fight' week for a lot of them) including the Vees themselves.
7.) Lucifer. Just. What is this...? I already found the character grating, but I'm still not enjoying his presence or finding a reason to like him. They have to consistently infantilize and nerf him to justify his presence and it's starting to feel like a pointless waste of time. I'm not mad that he can't 'punish' sinners, I think that's fine and makes sense the way they explained it, but he is barely growing as a character and the overgrown manchild bit is not doing enough for me to be interested at all. It's boring.
8.) Vaggie might FINALLY get some more character development?! It would be awesome if we could finally really develop her as individual outside of her relationship to Charlie (and constantly cleaning up all of Charlie's messes since she's so often forced to be the only adult in the room). They keep trying to remind us that she wants to reclaim/change her name, but this feels too little at this point - I want more on this and it would be great to see Charlie finally set aside some of her self-inflicted drama for a moment to better support Vaggie. I was glad to see the little flashbacks to her life as an exorcist and I hope we get more - this feels like a S3 thread.
9.) Where. Is. Lute. ???? Obviously she was physically there with the other angels (side note: they brought HER but couldn't bring Pentious? Okay...) but I mean more broadly, where is her story going? We are going on all these other random plot threads while not answering or paying any attention to one of the most interesting ideas this season proposed! Gravity was great and it looked like Lute was shaping up to be a far more influential character than she has been this season... maybe she is a bigger part of S3 and we'll see that transition by the end of this season (once the Vees arc concludes) but idk. It feels like they either dropped that way too early OR they needed to be giving us a few more crumbs here and there to keep that thread alive. Kind of disappointed we aren't seeing more of her.
10.) Finally, please do not crucify me, but is it just me or do a lot of the songs seem kinda mid this season... The only ones I'm really re-listening to are 'Trust Us' (only the Vees part) and 'Once We Get Up There' everything else has been meh (especially compared to S1), maybe I'll give them all a post-S2 second listen to see if anything new catches my ear.
...
Maybe episodes 3 + 4 simply lowered my expectations so completely into the ground that now I'm delusional, but I thought this week's episodes were lowkey an improvement (at a minimum an improvement over last week's).
Still, I want to see a return to the hotel's main core of redemption/rehabilitation. Would love to see Charlie completely rework her program and realize that while, yes, everyone CAN be redeemed (if the show ever strays from this, I'll be done), there are some things that require a lot more complexity which extends beyond basic ass 'sorrys' and insulting impersonal gift baskets. Please let the 'adult' show be, yknow, adult about things, my god.
And I continue to be hopeful that the Vees will pull through. I want Vox's plan to crash/fail, I want him to develop beyond his foolishness with Alastor/move past him completely, and I want their little found family reunited. I'm definitely enjoying the angst right now - it's fun/interesting to see Valentino and Velvette sneer a little/reveal more insecurity - I think/hope this will make Vox's eventual apologies to them all the more sweeter.
Eager to see what other people were feeling/thinking.
Well... we may have reached my tipping point lol, I don't know if I'll continue with the series honestly (though I think I will continue with my personal reimagining)...
1.) What in the world are they doing with Charlie? She was AWFUL in these episodes (and, if we're being real, has been since the beginning of the season). Her being so foolishly incompetent was such bad character writing (you can highlight her flaws like toxic positivity/ignorance and overbearing personality without completely reducing her to a negative IQ...) and it was all so incredibly unentertaining. The entire time I felt like I was watching a show for children and not what, in theory, is supposed to be an adult animated comedy.
Charlie's immaturity is just astounding at this point, I'm really at my end with it... and why does Vaggie feel more like her handler than a loving, equal partner? It's kind of a gross dynamic where Vaggie's agency as a character with her own motivations is completely disrespected at the cost of Charlie being completely infantilized and in need of constant rescuing/hand holding, which is such a shame. Lucifer and parts of Heaven's portrayal in general (especially Emily) suffer from this too and it's honestly really annoying at this point. I don't get what they're going for here. We already knew she was ignorant... let's start getting some character development to improve on that, please.
2.) I literally do not care about Pentious and Cherri in the slightest. Why are we supposed to be rooting for either of them as couple? This just feels so weirdly forced. If you had to shove in a 'shipping' song (even though, my god, there are way too many plot threads in this short ass series already - the show does NOT have time for this) there were plenty of other pairings that could have benefitted from it more. Maybe highlighting why Angel and Husk are now so close to one another/dropping in moments that emphasize how much they've bonded would have been a better use of time? Separately these characters (Pentious and Cherri) are fine, even if this show suffers massively from an overstuffed cast... but together? Like why?
I just don't get it, maybe I'm missing something. I am way more interested in seeing Cherri help Angel on his redemption journey/generally being a friend to him than this weird connection she suddenly has to Pentious.
3.) The pacing. Oh my god. It was bad last season but it is horrendous here. I would have cut so much from these episodes lol. I'd eliminate Baxter entirely - they do NOT need more mid-ass characters with barely anything to do (calling it now, he only exists to somehow subdue Shok.wav in a final fight). I would have reworked Alastor's backstory since it took so much screentime without really adding anything/marrying its ideas together. I would have completely tossed the Pentious/Cherri song/plot. I also would have cut Nifty's number (was this because the VA was contracted for a song or something?? Why would Charlie even bring Nifty?? Justice for Nifty actually, wtf is she even doing as a character?? Please give her something.)... and I would have significantly cut down on Vox's unearned/dumb victory lap and instead have had him reiterate his goals/next steps of his plan.
4.) The Vees are the only saving grace for me right now, they are the only characters I care about and even then I think we are fast approaching dangerous territory of this too being ruined if we keep going down this weird character regression for Vox...
Highlights: seeing Vox and Velvette's rapport (felt very in-character, I liked him pointing the angelic spear away from Velvette/being protective of her and then being a dick and leaving her to wait for the elevator - it was fun, silly found family things), watching them all show up/fight together without a moment's hesitation (the fight was another episode highlight), Velvette in general really shined (her powers are VERY cool), and the gag with Valentino's glasses/poor vision was fun (his powers were also entertaining and him almost accidentally shooting himself multiple times was well animated, I thought).
I like seeing them being a team, it is what ties these characters together and makes them so interesting - but we really need to start seeing more tension build between them regarding the upcoming plan or a doubling down of why their motivations for Heaven are what they are/why they're important. What are they working on individually to make their BBEG plot happen? I feel like Velvette and Valentino are really being reduced to background characters in the trio and this will absolutely ONLY get worse the longer Alastor sticks around them since Alastor is such a scene hog/writer's pet. I fear we are entering the Alastor-Vox show which is... so disappointing and frankly boring as a fan of the Vees lol.
5.) The Alastor backstory was lame and goofy. I'm sorry... WHY did a radio personality need to be a satanic-worshipping serial killer?? How are these two ideas being married together?? It's absurd and not in a good/fun way. The only way I could see it working is if you make him into a complete freak, like a complete recluse from society, but that's not where they went with it. It just doesn't make sense why someone who had everything going for them would throw that away to be a killer? We needed a few more lines of explanation here because I was not buying it. I also hate the current fanon (god I hope it's fanon) that he 'only killed bad people' - murder is still murder, you are not the law, and from what we saw he killed a guy for spilling his drink on him... so.
6.) This also leads into Vox's fuckass 'backstory' with Alastor. Good lord this was terrible and just solidified for me that this show is for children because why did it feel like pointless 'schoolyard' beef when these are grown ass men who lived grown ass lives?
Why did they write someone who was supposedly a powerful cult leader into such a infantilized mess? I already hated that backstory but at least STICK WITH IT. Why is a grown man in his 40s/50s gushing like a shy teenage girl? Over what??? Who was this for?? THAT'S what kept him obsessed with Alastor all these years? Getting laughed at? Really? At least make the public humiliation something more intense, like a bigger spectacle that stuck with him for decades... make the betrayal deep and complicated! Have it so Alastor sabotaged one of his technology launches (oh, actually, I guess we can't do that anymore because wtf even is Vox's personal connection to technology at this point) or stole his ideas at a pivotal moment or embarrassed him so badly he had to change his name/identity to avoid the ridicule... I don't know? Something that isn't so goddamn cringe for BOTH characters (because lbr Alastor was acting childishly petty about it too - again, not in a fun way). Isn't he supposed to be a powerful piece of shit serial killer? Why is he engaging in this (I presume Vox is his key to getting his shit fixed, but instead of doing a 'Vox is a buffoon' montage we could have hinted at that/grounded the situation more realistically)?? He also keeps coming after Vox for having a team which 1.) is actually the smartest thing Vox does and 2.) is extremely hypocritical for him to say when none of his power is his own/he relies completely on Rosie. Are we supposed to find this argument compelling? We're supposed to see Alastor as a giant, fraudulent hypocrite, right? I would tend to think that's the case but he is so babied by the narrative (almost all these characters are) I really don't know at this point lol.
You know what, I don't even want to ask 'what are we doing here' because, frankly, both these characters and their stories are pissing me off now and I just do not care lol.
7.) Ah, and Angel's 'sin'... sigh. I think it was interesting to have Vox reveal that detail - it was mean and cunning of him, so I appreciated the way that was written. That being said... I'm POSITIVE we're going to be given a predictable sob story that Angel's dad was actually an evil pos so Angel can forgive himself. It's going to be a boring, surface-level exploration of familial issues that absolves Angel in everyone's eyes, I'm certain. It's the same logic so many fans are using for Alastor being a serial killer (murder is okay IF they were bad people, lol, give me a break).
They almost had me with Vox calling him out as a murderer - I was like, GOOD, this is what I want to see explored, let's talk about how Angel likely ruined countless lives while in the mafia! But, of course, this was then followed with 'killed his dad' and I immediately understood that, no, we are not going to get any actual nuance and the show is not going to explore this idea of Angel's mafia crimes at all lol. Okay.
8.) Since so much of this is negative lol, I will end on a positive that I really appreciated the moment of Vox directly asking Charlie if someone like him could be redeemed and I really liked that she stood her ground and reiterated her convictions. That felt very in-character for her (and it's the stance I hope the show continues to take) while also opening that door narratively to explore what redemption looks like for people actively causing harm (in this case, like Vox).
EDIT: How did I forget... wtf was that little throwaway line from Katie about the Exterminations only happening for the past 7 years?!?!? Is this to further (poorly) absolve Sera? I might be legitimately misremembering so this could be on me, but I could have sworn the Exterminations were implied to have been taking place for centuries?
EDIT 2: I also forgot how much I hated Husk's "should I spank you" line when he was getting mad at Angel/arguing... whoever made the legendary Keith David utter that nonsense (and it was so awkwardly written to... like completely out of place) should be ashamed.
EDIT 3: Devastated to learn that garbage 'spanking' line was an adlib by Keith David himself. Captain Anderson, noooo. My critique still stands that it should have been cut, that line did not fit the dialogue, moment, or character.
...
Ugh, I need to just take Valentino and Velvette away from this show at this point. I think you can make some really intriguing backstories for both of them that positions them exactly as the complicated/flawed people with serious 'sins' against them that the show SHOULD be exploring with its central theme. I'm sure with time they will find a way to butcher and fumble these characters too... but I'll remain delusional for now. Lol, I know I sound like such a hater with the new Vox-Alastor developments but I really just do not care about Vox's obsession with Alastor, I care about the main plot of redemption and how complex characters can grow/heal.
Dreading all the Vox-Alastor slop we're going to have to sit through in the coming episodes as the show likely grinds to a halt (because it can never help itself) to inundate us with this overplayed-yet-still-somehow-underdeveloped-dynamic and I sadly think we're also overdue for more buffoonish Lucifer too so that will also be another slog to sit through...
Lute really needs to swoop down asap and speed this plot along. Yeah, my final take on these episodes is... not a happy one, lol.
The lyrics for every song that’s supposed to introduce characters to Heaven are hot garbage.
“And everyone is hot”
“No bums”
“The chums are tens here!” (Literally reducing people’s value to numbers rating their appearance. Not very holy of them.)
“And no one here's addicted to crack!”
Extremely lookist and classist. The way these characters sing about Heaven’s residents has a eugenicist feel to it. All of this shit. And these are the “good” characters we’re supposed to like singing these lyrics. Fuck no.
The dialogue is even worse.
So much open misogyny towards Lute. The entirety of S2 EP2 is Lute getting demeaned, belittled, and brushed off by everyone in Heaven’s courtroom. Sera, who’s been close with Adam and Lute since the beginning of time essentially, shows very little consideration for Lute and puts all of her focus on Pentious and Abel. Fuckass St. Putrid and Cable, the nightmare duo, put down Lute with the most childish tryhard “owns” ever. Lute has valid points and nobody takes her seriously despite her being fiercely loyal to her superiors from day one.
Lute under all that violent rage, is logically sound. Sinners want to infiltrate and destroy Heaven. Despite Charlie wanting to spare him, a member of Charlie’s crew DID kill Adam. Of course Lute is worried that a member of Charlie’s gang is now in Heaven.
An important tidbit dumbasses keep sweeping under the rug… Lute is CLEARLY struggling to be mobile as she had just ripped her own arm off. She didn’t see Charlie spare Adam. By the time she turned around and saw what had happened, all she saw was Nifty stabbing him and the rest of the Hazbin Hotel crew just standing and watching it happen. Lute has no reason to believe that Charlie isn’t out for blood. Pentious himself tried to kill Adam but failed.
There is manipulative framing done by the show when it comes to sinners not during extermination day and sinners during extermination day. A lot of my critiques about the exterminations are worded better by other people so I’m just gonna leave these here in order to get back on-topic:
Abel gets handed the promotion Lute should’ve earned. Just because he’s the son of Adam. Lute’s been primed and trained since her creation to be a hardened warrior who slays sinners to protect Heaven. This conditioning has made her bloodthirsty; it’s made her dehumanize all sinners.
Sera condoned the exterminations. When the exception to the rule, Pentious, one of the maybe twenty only actually redeemable sinners that exist, shows up in Heaven, what happens? Why, Sera throws herself a pity party and blames it all on the “depraved” Adam and Lute, of course! Completely distancing herself from the exorcists when she’s the one in charge of them. Adam was the head of the exorcists, but he answered to Sera. Sera approved the exterminations- Adam was murdered doing the job she condoned and she doesn’t care. Just replaces him right away and distances herself from those who are oh-so violent and depraved because that’s what they think will keep Heaven safe from demons. Adam and Lute definitely had fun with it, but fun wasn’t the main factor- despite what the narrative tries to yank out of its ass.
Lute gets all the flack from everybody for… being loud and having violent tendencies? Adam was the same way and everybody was cool about it. When he died nobody in Heaven mourned- nobody celebrated, either. It’s no big deal to them. The first man ever, Heaven’s first winner resident, and leader of their army has been killed by an affiliate of Hell’s princess. That’s a big fucking deal.
A lot of Heaven’s hypocrisy is intentional, yes. But, a lot of it is genuinely the Hazbin writers trying to show off how “likable” the “wholesome” characters are. Especially the terrible three, St. Putrid, Cable, and Purple Charlie. They are so lookist, classist, misogynistic, and obnoxious just like Stolas from Helluva Boss.
Viv has a toxic positivity problem and thinks “nice” characters can’t be malicious in their “kindness”. Give me a break.
Just firing a few personal thoughts/questions off into the void regarding Hazbin Hotel's new season...
>>Spoilers for the first two episodes<<
Lowkey, I was incredibly underwhelmed by Episode 2 (Gravity was the only saving grace). I really don't understand why Heaven was so indifferent to Adam's death. You're telling me Lute was the only one who cared? That seems so... callous...
I also don't understand why the weight of Sera's wrongdoings (regardless of her intentions, genocide is still genocide) were handwaved in one song.
So... if we're pretty easily 'forgiving' characters like Sera for their active involvement in causing devastating harm to mass amounts of people (whether some think those being harmed 'deserved it' or not) then it's actually NOT that hard to be redeemed, right? And I guess that's fine if that's the case, but are we going to investigate the implications of that?
It just seems kind of frivolous to me at this point, which has me worried (and I continue to be worried that our characters who are ACTIVELY trying to redeem themselves, ie. Angel, aren't being shown acknowledging the horrors they've inflicted onto others... self-improvement is, of course, important but how will he atone for the lives he ruined as a member of the mob??).
And another thing! Lol, apologies this has turned into more of a rant than anything...
So, Pentious' 'sin' was knowing the identity of a serial killer and keeping it to himself, thereby indirectly allowing for the murder of more women. Weak, but whatever. Okay, so how did his one heroic sacrifice bring any justice to the women who were killed by his cowardice/apathy? Why were the victims of the serial killer not even mentioned? I'm trying not to be too mean here because I know I personally really dislike his character, but I feel like these are fair questions. Shouldn't the victims of his inaction be centered in his redemption since that is what he needed to atone for?
Generally, at this point, I don't understand why we aren't asking these harder questions about redemption and better exploring Heaven's role in it.
Why not give us actual 'winners' (not just angels) who are worried about sinners 'invading' their space and falling back into bad habits, therefore having some of them justify either the rekindling of the Exterminations or the blanket refusal of any newly redeemed souls? What about the winners who loved Adam and are mourning him/can be rallied to Lute's cause?
Why not have some winners LIVID that Heaven was slaughtering people in Hell, which might very well include people they loved. A Heaven/winner-led uprising against the angels would be fascinating!
As far as other, hard-hitting moral quandaries go, I'd also love to see a winner positioned as someone who is 'very good' go on and try to advocate for a sinner they love who we (the audience) would consider 'very bad' by the framing of the show.
Totally imaginary 'what if' scenario here for the purpose of example, but presenting us someone like Valentino's mother, a winner, and have her trying to advocate for him to be redeemed from Heaven's side, because SHE may have been a 'winner' but Heaven isn't paradise without her son, regardless of what he's done. I know some people are allergic to the idea of unconditional love, regardless of how illogical it might seem from the outside, but this shit is real - there are people who will stand by their loved ones no matter what. How would they address this? What is the solution? She 'won', shouldn't she have her paradise which would include (in her eyes) her incredibly flawed son? Valentino likely doesn't even WANT to be redeemed (I would be shocked lol) but what do you do when families/loved ones are split? Make. It. Complicated. I beg.
(I think they might explore this a little bit with Pentious trying to go back to Hell but I also think this is more than anything a plot point that will give Vox a means to invade, so... I'm not entirely sure the actual question will be addressed.)
And finally regarding Episode 1...
I enjoy that the Vees are actually being treated as 'bad' people in Hell and therefore have a far more interesting story going on but I, 1.) think the cult background for Vox is so lame (what is the tie-in for all his technology then... TV personality =/= being able to do quantum computing lol? Evil Tech CEO with delusions of grandeur was RIGHT THERE), 2.) will be annoyed if they kill any of them off (might be a deal breaker for me tbh), and 3.) am already so underwhelmed with the idea of Vox 'betraying' them.
Literally the most interesting thing about them is their dynamic as a unit. It's what sets them up as such an interesting foil to the Hotel's cast which is ALSO supposed to be a little found family. Hell is ruthless and somehow these distinct groups of people have come together to form bonds and trust with one another, but now we're doing a petty power grab plot and throwing all of that away? I guess?
(I did appreciate that Velvette and Valentino seem to be so lukewarm on the whole thing, though, like they really don't give a fuck lol - their motivations are so surface level...)
Anyways, I am hoping they pull this off well and I'm just being too nitpicky or something because this show has so much potential... it just routinely drops the ball, every single time, so I'm very hesitant...
Fingers crossed the Vees lose due to Vox betraying his comrades for whatever reason (no perma death, please... we would lose some of the only characters with any intrigue to them given the main plot of redemption and how people who have REALLY caused harm play into that in this universe, well, besides Sera, I guess, who we've just moved on from... but still...) and then we see them coming back together and trying to rebuild their empire or going on to something else with their little found family restored because that's all I'm really vibing with right now - someone did a great fanart of Valentino and Velvette carrying Vox away as the V Tower burns and they're just like 'yeah, anyways, onto the next thing' lol. I would be content with that! If them being back on the bottom rung led to an arc where they contemplate what redemption looks for the Vees I'd be very interested.
Manifesting harsher, greyer backstories and harder hitting questions/scenarios about and for this universe, please.
Angel and Valentino's History - Similarities, Differences, Meeting and Partnership
I originally began writing this in response to @/cynfandoom's question that I saw in some of the Hazbin tags. They were wondering what Angel had been doing in Hell before Valentino's death. I would have directly replied, but I ended up ruminating on some other ideas including Valentino's fall and subsequent rise to power and how the two of them as characters (at least as it relates to my story) likely met and what themes I hope to explore between the two of them, both as individuals and when they're together.
So, here's my theory that I've been working on (still a work-in-progress):
Angel (born Antonio but anglicized to Anthony) died in 1947 at 34 years old in the fallout of a drug bust gone wrong. The mafia family he worked for had been unknowingly outbid by a rival family who paid off a corrupt police chief to interrupt the deal and arrest everyone involved. It had been made clear to the higher ups in the organization that someone would have to go down for the incident while they worked out their next steps against their enemies - they needed a fall guy. Unfortunately for Angel, this role fell to him as the only other person he had been arrested with was the eldest son of a capo.
Adding a 'read more' because brevity is my enemy...
The Family expected Angel's unquestioning loyalty and silence - this was the oath he had taken upon becoming a made man. After being bailed out and told that the Family's lawyer would be in touch about what Angel would/could say to the police, he shared the news with his father and older brother (also made men in the same organization). The news was difficult to digest, but ultimately they expected Angel to behave as the Family wanted - this was standard, they told him, this was business. They assured Angel they would make sure he was taken care of, but Angel viewed this as a betrayal. The way he saw it, his father was choosing the Family over him. In that moment, he didn't want to hear from a hardened mafia man, he wanted his dad.
It should be noted that by this point in his life, Angel couldn't help but feel grossly inadequate compared to everyone around him and where they were in life. This feeling of inferiority was exacerbated by his increasing substance abuse and general self-loathing. He had tried for years to settle down with a nice girl and start a family (as his parents wanted for him), but it never felt right. He had already been experimenting with his sexuality in secret and his 'deficiency', as he viewed it, was never something he could seem to shake - it was always there, always nagging him. This led to an overall feeling of 'not being good enough' or 'not being enough of a man' both harmful self-concepts that had been lingering ever since his young childhood, where he frequently felt outperformed by his older brother. While the two brothers supported each other because of their bond of blood, the rivalry was undeniable and, at a certain point, Angel realized that he'd never be what his family wanted. He was never going to be his older brother and they were never going to be happy with who he really was.
The news that he would be doing some serious, hard time was difficult for him to stomach - it didn't seem fair. After arguing well into the evening with his brother and father he left, furious. They assumed he just needed to cool off, that they would talk to him in the morning and bring him down to the station to do his duty to the Family and take the fall. Angel, however, had different plans. He needed an outlet and took out his rage on his apartment, tossing the place, draining his liquor cabinet, and finishing off his private supply of bennies. This was incredibly self-destructive and in his negative spiral he ended up passing out only to accidentally choke on his own vomit at some point in the night and pass away.
When he arrived in Hell, he needed time to adjust. Hell was overcrowded in the years following the Second World War - vast scores of humanity had died at an alarming rate and in certain parts of Hell the environment was more akin to a free-for-all as this overwhelming influx of sinners tried to settle in. Still furious and navigating his self-destructive sentiments, Angel gave in to his emotions and joined the chaos. He savored the cathartic relief of unbridled mayhem. He may have been dead, but there was something more to whatever 'this' afterlife was and that was making him feel more alive than ever.
After some time, he slowed down and began to realize that, for the first time in his life, he was truly alone. While overwhelmingly daunting at first, he came to understand that this meant there were no longer any expectations of him. There was no family pressuring him (no matter how well-meaning) to be something he wasn't, no brother outperforming him as the 'favorite' child, no 'organization' demanding his loyalty but not offering him the same in return - there was just him and he could do whatever he wanted.
This realization was euphoric. For the first time, he allowed himself to be himself with no shame. He experimented with anything and everything, just to give it a try and say he'd done it. It wasn't all 'great' and not every moment was happy, but this phase for Angel was wildly liberating at its core.
Unfortunately, this came to an abrupt end in 1961 when, during an internal faction war within the Family, Angel's father and older brother were whacked and sent to Hell. They quickly reunited with other past members who had, similarly to many other mafia outlets, already re-established themselves to continue the legacy of their criminal organization, picking right up where they left off. It didn't take long for Angel's older brother to run into him since they shared a noticeable family resemblance.
At first, Angel was torn to see his family again - on the one hand, they were blood. As complicated as the relationship was, he loved them and he knew they loved him too, deep down... on the other hand, any continuing relationship with them would undoubtedly mean abandoning this new lifestyle he deeply cherished. No matter what he chose, he'd be sacrificing something.
Angel's older brother finally convinced him to talk things over with their father. At this awkward family reunion, his father tried explaining that things would be better for them now that they were all together once more and back with the Family. He didn't know what his youngest son had been up to since his death, but he was the patriarch and (in his mind) it would forever be his job to look out for his children. He reminded Angel that there was no 'quitting' the Family, they were in it for life and, evidently, the afterlife. He was a made man, he had taken vows to the Family - this was cosa nostra, this was something they had to remain committed to. Sure, he had had his fun, but now was the time to rejoin his family.
And Angel did. He cleared out his metaphorical dusty 'closet' and reluctantly stepped back into it. It hurt, but he couldn't deny the warmth he felt upon seeing his father and brother smile at him, proud that he had made the right decision.
The three of them continued running jobs in Hell for the Family's overlord. The mafia world and its power-structure continued to shift back and forth among the various families in a brutal, never-ending struggle. Angel relied on his usual escapes from the pressure - secret rendezvous with anonymous hookups and his preferred uppers that kept him going and feeling alive - anything that let him feel as if he wasn't just going through the oppressive motions.
Valentino died just a few days into 1982 at 25 years old.
He and his mother had immigrated to the US from the Dominican Republic in the late 60's, joining his mother's sister and their family in New York City. The transition had not been easy. While it's more complicated than what I can easily sum up in this post, Valentino was ultimately able to support himself and his mother (and their co-dependent substance abuse) through sex work (specifically street work).
To him, he found great power in the lifestyle, even if (like anything) it had its ups and downs. He was tall, handsome, and confident - not to mention adventurous in his sexuality and comfortable exploring the fantasies of his customers - there was a thrill to the work that he enjoyed and he was quick to move on and force out any memories of the less enjoyable encounters. Ultimately, he loved his mother more than anything - it had almost always been the two of them navigating the world together. While this relationship was complex and not always healthy for either of them, they were always going to do whatever it took to support one another and if Valentino could hold up his end by ensuring his mother (and their shared habit) was taken care of through work that he genuinely liked, he was glad to do so.
When she passed away only a few months after he had returned from a traumatic stay at Riker's, Valentino's life continued to spiral. Not ready to get clean and end his dependency (even if he knew his aunt would support him) he took to a life alone on the streets where he simultaneously found himself suffering from an unknown illness that was rapidly and confusingly destroying his body.
His final year alive had been terrible and incredibly painful yet manifesting in Hell felt like, in comparison, God had offered him a great reward alongside the punishment he had always suspected was waiting for him all along. Valentino now had a new body, a healthy one - he was strong again. After confirming that his prayers had been graciously answered and that his mother was no where to be found (thus assuming she was being taken care of in Heaven), he established a new life for himself, making use of the many skills he had utilized while alive.
Not long into his tenure in Hell, however, Valentino began a more serious romantic relationship with his drug dealer/frequent client. Both of them had feigned innocent intentions at first, masking their ulterior motives in the developing arrangement. Valentino was angling to score unlimited drugs that he didn't need to pay for, a performance he was already familiar with and had frequently employed while alive to needle more cash and/or gifts from his clients. The dealer had his own plan as well and, as he was more established in Hell and better understood the innerworkings of contracts and power posturing, he managed to successfully rope Valentino into a predatory contract that cemented Valentino's reliance on him for drugs... something Valentino didn't understand until it was far too late. Additionally, he had used this angle/relationship to cement Valentino's continued presence and employment at a nightclub he was starting. The dealer was still considered relatively 'small time' compared to others, but he had bigger aspirations - Valentino's increasing popularity as a performer and someone who could easily be rent out to entice better deals from high-paying clients would be the key to his success, or so he thought.
Still, Valentino was no stranger to this lifestyle or its darker underbelly. For most of his life, he had taken care of himself and that independence/self-reliance was important to him. The fact he thought he had found someone he could share some of the burden with while he fleeced them for his preferred poison, was just a bonus. But as the relationship between him and his dealer became more toxic and the extent of just how dangerous this contract he had signed was becoming evident, Valentino started seeing the writing on the wall. When a regular mentioned needing to talk to 'his pimp' first, Valentino knew it was time to hit the breaks. He was a man - to him, it was absolutely demeaning and emasculating for someone like him to need a pimp. But, by design, the power his drug dependency had over him was strong... and both he and his dealer knew that.
The dealer managed to retain Valentino's compliance even as their relationship turned more tumultuous all because of the exclusive contract. One day, storming out of their shared apartment after a physical fight, Valentino stumbled upon a rising media mogul, Vox, who was trying to discreetly scout for down-on-their-luck sinners to cast in a few of his upcoming productions - this side of town was generally known for its sex trade and if he could poach good-looking, young talent while they were desperate then he could lock them up in permanent lower-rate contracts, regardless of how famous they later became... it was just lucrative business, in his eyes. Valentino seemed like a good candidate and, as he was ready to cut ties with his dealer, Valentino agreed to a prospective business dinner with Vox to hear about the opportunities he was offering.
Valentino proved to be far more useful than Vox could have ever anticipated, however. As the dinner meeting progressed, Valentino made it known that he believed he knew the direction the sex industry was headed and he couldn't understand why no one had jumped on it yet. While technology moved slower in Hell, he pointed out that VHS was still no where to be seen. While alive, he had been called on by several wealthier clients who would hire him and put on different sex tapes while he 'entertained' them - it was the future, he said, who needed a theater when you could jack off from home?
Vox agreed and saw the profit potential in this. He immediately brought Valentino on, not just as an actor for one of his telenovelas (something Valentino had wanted as the financial independence would help him keep distance from his dealer unless he needed to seek him out for his drugs), but as a consultant too. Valentino and Vox collaborated frequently - while the technological side of developing VHS was on Vox's end, Valentino explored the financial potential. It was inevitable that widespread, distributable porn was coming to Hell and Valentino knew what the people wanted - he didn't mind starring in it himself if he had to, either.
As their project took off, Vox and Valentino began to bond more and more. They were both from two very different walks of life, but that's what made the partnership work. Valentino's dealer, however, remained a problem. They were still in a toxic, on-again-off-again relationship and he would frequently interrupt production to entice Valentino and lord his drug supply/addiction over him. This was in addition to frequently demanding money for Valentino's cooperation/compliance (ie. he was still posturing as a pimp). Vox made the final call - he needed the 'boyfriend' gone so that Valentino was alone/undistracted by his work.
Vox had already employed several of the various mafia families of Hell in the past on his rise to power, mostly to bury competitors and/or to shake out better deals from land owners who refused to sell to his ever-expanding empire. He arranged a meeting between himself, Valentino and one of the leading Families that side of town - having been promoted to the rank of capo for his loyalty, Angel's father was sent to negotiate, alongside his two sons.
Angel couldn't believe his eyes as he watched over the meeting. His father was taking orders from a scantily clad male prostitute who had recently been making a name for himself as a sinner who would 'do anything' on film (including, to Angel's admiration, frequent work exclusive to the homosexual male gaze). The Family seamlessly worked out a profitable standing arrangement with Voxtek, influenced by an already established history of good business dealings between the two organizations, but seeing his father (who was undeniably a bit uncomfortable with Valentino's unabashed and brazen attitude) remain professional with a person Angel resonated with, felt unbelievably empowering, inspirational, even.
While death was impermeant in Hell outside of the Exterminations, they were able to put enough pressure on Valentino's dealer to cut him out of the picture (primarily by targeting his other business ventures). The contract remained, but the loophole that Valentino could receive drugs for free (ie. without a monetary exchange occurring) was now to be explicitly exploited/managed by Vox...
This ordeal and its outcome eventually set the stage for Valentino's recovery. Getting clean is remarkably difficult to navigate, let alone in Hell where vices of all nature are available at a moment's notice. Still, he had learned a valuable lesson, one that he would have to remind himself of for the rest of his life: his addiction, no matter how good it might make him feel, was one of his greatest vulnerabilities and this was Hell. He now existed in an unforgiving gauntlet where only the strongest survived... it wasn't too different from where he had grown up, but he couldn't let himself be exploited like this again. The situation with this dealer had been bad, but it hadn't been the first time and now that he was tasting the sweet potential of success through his partnership with Vox, he truly couldn't let himself fall prey to anyone else ever again. This was the wakeup call that finally stuck for him.
From then on, Valentino's fame grew in tandem with Angel's admiration of him. Angel watched quietly from afar and couldn't believe that Valentino was not only so open about who he was, but he was notably successful too. Of course, as the years rolled by, more and more sinners were more openly embracing their true sexualities/gender expression, but Angel always felt that it was Valentino's bold and unashamed influence within the media circuit that had helped usher in those sentiments. Angel still longed for that same acceptance and freedom in his own circles and, however, and he eventually came to the brave decision that he would embrace it too. Either his father would just have to accept that or he would mourn the loss of his blood ties and finally achieve the happiness that came with self-acceptance.
Now, I know this is already long and I don't want to reveal too many specific details about their relationship and how it develops/falls apart, but Angel eventually comes to Valentino as an escape from his family/mafia ties after his father lashes out at Angel coming out.
While Angel's sexuality was, at this point, a poorly kept secret they all were actively choosing to ignore, Angel's father feared for his son and what a more 'open' display would mean for their status within the Family. But Angel was done. He called back to the moments just before his death - reminding them how his own flesh and blood family had been ready to cut their ties with him and how badly that hurt him - and explained that, yet again, he was begging for a father, his father, to be someone who was supposed to love him unconditionally... the Family be damned. He offered one final ultimatum to his father: himself, exactly as he was without any hiding or lying, or the Family ties he had devoted his life to.
His father, not ready to accept his son, tried to explain that for Angel's own protection he needed to keep his 'failing' a secret... that, even if he walked out right now, the Family would always have him on their hit list as someone worse than scum, a traitor, and he would never be safe. But, again, this time Angel was done hiding, he didn't need to anymore - not with the world (and underworld) changing as it was.
So, he left - rightfully terrified for his future but otherwise ready to be free once again. Preparing for the inevitable clashes ahead if the Family really did deem him a traitor/refuse to let him go free, he hurriedly tried to work out a solution. Perhaps, if he aligned himself with someone more powerful than them, an overlord maybe, then it was likely they wouldn't be able to touch him (not without retaliation, of course). But who could that savior be?
Angel deeply admired Valentino. He was someone who had recently been named an overlord in his own right upon his solidified, official alliance with Vox, and Angel saw him as a potential savior in his escape... that was if he could convince Valentino that he was worth the investment.
From Valentino's perspective, however, it both insulted and intrigued him to be sought after by someone who believed so surely that his lifestyle was 'easy' to maintain/get into (which had been the angle Angel had presented to him one night at one of his clubs). By this stage, Valentino had already brought up a number of others in his industry and he knew what to look for. He could maybe see some potential in Angel but what really interested him was the fact that Angel came from power already. Valentino had started with nothing and made something of himself, to him, Angel already had it all and was now willing to throw it away... and for what? Him? There was great power in such trusting devotion, power Valentino had never felt before - he had always been the one on the other end, after all. But now he could be the one holding the leash. The idea was intoxicating (and, as we know, bound to become incredibly toxic).
Even if there were good intentions to start and Valentino did hold up his end to insulate Angel from retaliation from his father/the mafia (guaranteed through Voxtek's power and resources), the relationship never stood on equal ground. Valentino, who was finally staying clean and making something of his life that he was quite proud of, now had someone at his beck and call in circumstances much like he had found himself in not too long ago... and, reflecting on that, he couldn't quite decide what to make of Angel. At times, he found Angel disgusting - what self-respecting man actively sought out someone to be his pimp, after all? To Valentino, only women needed that kind of protection not someone who had once been a proud member of the mafia. Other times, however, he felt profoundly empowered knowing just how much Angel relied on him. The roles had finally reversed and something dark inside of Valentino reveled in that shift.
Overall, I love the idea of Valentino and Angel being profoundly similar in many ways yet also so very different. I also enjoy exploring how both of them may have corrupted each other through this unequal dynamic (albeit one far more willingly than the other).
In my characterization, Valentino internalized much of the Catholic doctrine he grew up with - in life, he was raised to be quite religious and had never felt capable of 'properly atoning' for his sins which, while alive, included his sexual proclivities, issues with anger, substance abuse, petty theft, and occasional violence (all of this from his perspective). He was taught that confession only worked if you truly felt sorry and for many of his transgressions he simply didn't - he liked sex, he felt he had usually been justified in his anger, he didn't want to stop his drug use, he thought his fighting had been warranted, etc. In contrast, Angel was also raised Catholic but found no comfort in it and he didn't appreciate being told that he was inherently sinful for simply existing as a man who enjoyed the company of other men. While alive, he was peddling drugs, bootlegging, committing targeted murder, and more - he didn't need a religion to tell him these were the wrong things to do and that he wasn't a good person... he already knew that and didn't need more to feel guilty about.
I won't go into it too much here because it might reveal too many story details, but I find this idea of Hell/the nature of Hell's society as a catalyst of corruption that actively makes someone worse and encourages their most abominable instincts/behaviors under the guise of 'survival of the fittest' to be fascinating.
Valentino, by all accounts, certainly made his fair share of mistakes in life but compared to someone like Angel and his gruesome criminal activity or Alastor who was a serial killer both dead and alive - his 'crimes', in the beginning, are far less detrimental or vicious. It is through Valentino's brutal shift in environment and the encouraging influence of those around him, however, where he becomes emboldened to take back the power he never had while alive, even if this means engaging in disgusting practices/acts he would have never once thought of as a mortal (or had maybe only fantasized of). While there is agency in the choices he makes and he alone is responsible for his actions, it's notable that the environment as a corrupting agent results in this harmful normalization of these vile behaviors that furthers a vicious cycle.
If sinners could see the version of themselves that first entered Hell versus who they are now... how many of them would feel horrified by what they've become? How many would justify the behavior with 'it was either them or me' or other reasonings?
The theme of unconditional love is also important to me and is something I'm planning to explore as I develop these two and their backgrounds. They both come from very committed families. Valentino's relationship with his mother is profound and his extended family repeatedly make it clear that they will be there for him no matter what and that their family will always stick together. Angel's relationship with his twin sister is similar and he knows that he always has an ally in her, but he still longs for acceptance from the rest of his family too. Both Angel and Valentino have masks that they wear for their family and these masks are largely influenced by their family's preference for traditional masculinity and machismo which compounds this dynamic as they both veer outside of this 'acceptable' performance.
It is also interesting to observe the unconditional love for their family that they present versus what they expect in return. Valentino's love for his mother is completely unconditional. Sure, he has been mad at her and her choices, they've fought and argued in the past, but he would do absolutely anything for her and has routinely demonstrated this throughout his young life (saving her from overdoses, keeping her fed and clothed, protecting her from her boyfriend, etc)... yet when his mask falls and his mother offers the same unconditional love, of accepting him regardless of whatever sinful activity he's engaged in or the depravity he's extolled onto others simply because, in her eyes, a mother should unequivocally love their child no matter what, I question whether or not he'll be able to stomach that, if he's ready to accept that same demonstration of unconditional love when he is the recipient. Alternatively, Angel desperately longs for that acceptance from his family. He deeply desires the assurance that their love for him is present regardless of what he does, whether or not he ruins his life, or doesn't meet their expectations, etc... that, at the end of the day, they will still love him just because. He has sacrificed so much of his own personal happiness for them and, in his eyes, he doubts the same would ever be sacrificed for him. How can he come to terms with the fact that their love may indeed be conditional on him remaining unhappy and playing a character he doesn't believe in?
And (since this post is already way too long) I'll share one final dimension that both connects and separates the two of them: their coping mechanisms. Both Angel and Valentino, throughout their lives, rely heavily on illicit substances and the safety of nonchalance, humor, and/or their sexuality when challenged with difficult situations that make them feel defensive - though, if this strategy doesn't work, they both have a likelihood of defaulting to anger/violence as well. That being said, their substance abuse varies. Angel prefers the comfort of confidence-boosting, energy-inducing amphetamines/stimulants (uppers) whereas Valentino prefers the mellowing, euphoric escape of depressants (downers), specifically opioids - so their substance abuse issues, while similar on the surface, manifest quite differently and present a need for deeper self-reflection into why they're drawn to these 'escapes' that neither are quite prepared to commit to.
I do want to offer a disclaimer that the work I'm preparing (which utilizes this general timeline/these ideas above) purposefully deviates from the Hazbin morality structure we've been shown. Without revealing too much, neither Angel or Valentino are 'in Hell' for their sexuality (however they may define it), adultery, or any substance abuse while they were alive. Hell, in my work, operates on a more complex axiom that weighs a sinner's sense of guilt at the time of their death over all else. There is no automatic damnation for sex work or substance abuse (or crime, or murder, etc) unless unprocessed guilt for those acts (or a combination of those acts) is present and/or has been internalized by the perpetrator which varies widely based on the individual. In this sense, a murderer may very well be in Heaven if they believe they had been justified and content with this act OR had already sought forgiveness while alive and found peace through that (for example) - yes, this is complicated and not always completely what we, the audience, might consider 'fair'. Overly simplifying things here, but I think it's important to emphasize that this is a complex system (which neither Heaven, Hell, or Charlie understand at the onset of the story, ie. part of the problem with the current structures in place). There is no inherent demonization of sex work or substance abuse in the afterlife within my work, though individual sinners themselves might view this differently.
The way most of the fandom likes to paint Valentino as just the "big Evil Guy that gets in the way of Angel's happiness!" Is so shallow and honestly stupid, im always happy to find more people who see the potential his character has and how important he REALLY is to Angel Dust
Im putting my Trust on the writers a LOT, cuz If they fuck him up next season im droping the show so hard
I'm honored you enjoyed reading through it! Just for that I'll share my work-in-progress human Angel Dust design:
I kind of get the vibe that the fandom skews towards the younger end and it doesn't help that, even though Hazbin Hotel is billed as an adult show, it often presents its themes in an immature way that doesn't lend itself well to nuance. In a show about redemption for people who have been given the ultimate punishment, though... I think you really need to have a firm grasp on your characters and embrace them as fully three-dimensional human beings that have both hard and soft edges to them.
One-note, almost cartoonishly 'evil' characters that never get explored really don't do it for me - that might work just fine in a kid's show, but in adult media I expect a lot more. And in a show like this, with a theme I deeply resonate with, I want all of the characters to be offered opportunities for growth not just on a selective scale of who is easiest to do that with or who can be made the most sympathetic by ignoring their potential darker side.
I've really enjoyed diving into Valentino's character and building him up into this complex human. Full disclosure/bias, through this process he has easily become my favorite character especially because I think asking the question of 'how he redeems himself' in a work centered on growth and change is very compelling. Credit to the writers, there was already an interesting outline for who he 'could have been' in life and, for me, the rest of my ideas for his character emerged out of that foundation.
In my view, Valentino is a character who, while alive/young, has already experienced a lot of the worst humanity has to offer and as a result feels as if he's been preparing for Hell all his life. At this stage, he's accepted that people are awful, that they will always try to backstab you, etc. and he recognizes this through his experiences with others as well as his own actions, when he is knowingly in the wrong. Sure, there are good people out there and people that he loves/trusts but they're either 1.) no longer with him (to his knowledge his aunt/uncle/cousins are still alive and his mother is in Heaven) or are 2.) so few in number that he can count them on one hand (Vox and Velvette). So, this survival lesson that he has to be strong, that he has to take what's offered whenever he has the chance, and he can absolutely show no weaknesses to others has been routinely reinforced to him - in Hell more than ever.
Angel first comes to Valentino because he is genuinely desperate and looking for safety, community, and comfort from someone he has admired from afar. But Valentino, through all of his experiences, sees first a potential trap (why would someone with powerful mafia connections need him for protection) and second, when that fear eventually dies down, an opportunity being presented to him on a silver platter. And here's the thing, he (Valentino) has been that vulnerable prize before, ripe for the taking... and the lesson he learned from those shitty experiences was to never be on the wrong side of that exchange ever again. Now that he has the power, he feels he'd be stupid not to take it, especially if it is being offered willingly. This, in his eyes, is just how the world works.
We (the audience) can recognize that his mentality is wrong, of course, but by offering a logical connection between his thoughts/past experiences and why he acts the way he does we get a better sense for who he is as a character. It also provides a tangible baseline for this character's perspective that can be challenged later down the line when their potential for growth is being explored.
I also think this added layer of resentment that Valentino has for Angel is interesting. Angel, at first, believes that sex work is easy and something anyone, let alone himself, can effortlessly get the hang of. In reality, it is not an easy lifestyle and it is certainly not for everyone, but Angel (at this point) thinks he needs to angle himself as someone Valentino can invest in to guarantee the protection he is seeking. For Angel this world has the potential to be liberating - he has had a taste of that liberation and he has witnessed Valentino thriving in it, now he wants to carve out space within that world for himself. This actually serves to insult Valentino, though, rather than ingratiate Angel to him. This has already been Valentino's life for years and it has had intense highs and lows for him... to have that trivialized by Angel, not that Angel knows he's doing this, is both frustrating and weirdly intriguing to him. These emotions, while misplaced, then manifest in inappropriate, vindictive reactions that serve to boost his own sense of self and reclaim power he may feel he's lost in the past by capitalizing on Angel's willingness and naivete.
I too hope the writers see the potential here and really explore these complex themes but I'm not holding my breath, hah.
