AndromedaCeline

"May the fires burn brightly for you, Afshin."

[liberalsarecool]

Rights you have from birth are slowly stripped away by conservative politicians.

Constructs are created to control. Medical debt? Student debt? Remove these constructs and you have instant freedom.

Universal healthcare would remove the employer's control of your health insurance and allow you to move from job to job, or if you lose your job, and still have health care.

[andromedaceline]

My Thoughts on the Dateline Episode....

Long post warning lol.....

The Dateline special didn't really reveal anything new. If anything, it felt like a recap for the general public who haven't been following the case closely. However, what stood out to me was the consistent tone of disgust and confusion surrounding the murder (again nothing new), paired with the repeated attempts to humanize BT.

The reason I bring this up specifically, is because I think it's important to address this in more detail, especially after what happened outside of court with those 3 idiots during the last hearing. The conversation around why this murder has had such a huge impact is getting muddied and losing the plot. A lot of people, especially those who support Luigi, seem to struggle with reconciling two things at once: recognizing the murder as a terrible act while also understanding why so many people sympathize with the anger behind it. Here's my interpretation of how we as supporters can remedy that.

As I was watching the episode, Lester Holt asked the legal fund fundraiser organizer, Sam Beard (Bear? sp?), a very simple question:

"Did BT deserve to be murdered on the street?"

They started struggling and bumbling to answer it, eventually giving a sort of non-answer deflect, that didn't really make sense. Honestly, it was frustrating to watch for me. These are the moments where the message needs to be loud and crystal fkn clear. Whether you're standing with press on the courthouse steps or on national TV, people need to know exactly why this case is important. If supporters can't articulate their position clearly, it becomes easy for the opposing entities (like Dateline!) to distort it causing confusion, and confusion kills momentum in any movement.

So, here's how I would answer that question.

"Did BT deserve to die?"

My Short Answer:

No.

That's it. The answer is simply no.

No matter your view on the case, Luigi, or health insurance, BT did not deserve to die. He was a cog of a larger system that rewards profit over people. The real issue is the broader capitalist system we live in that encourages harmful business practices, not just one individual.

Here's the Long Answer/In Depth Explanation:

No matter how you feel about the alleged killing, Luigi, or the healthcare system, BT did not deserve to die. Simple.

Now before you jump down my throat for saying that, please note, this is NOT a sympathy post for BT or people like him. It's just a recognition of a larger reality that we all need to lock in on sooner than later if we want real, lasting change.

For real supporters, this was not some celebration of an innocent guy dying or a blind hatred for anyone who has CEO as a profession. However, where I think most supporters get confused is that they treat BT as if he was the sole villain, rather than a more visible representative of a much bigger and corrupt system. The reality is most of individuals like him, are just one of many cogs, operating within systems that reward the very behavior. The word system here is key. What is a system in this case? It's a group of connected individuals that make decisions and work together to achieve a particular purpose or produce a certain outcome. An outcome that consistently is favorable to those who primarily benefit from it.

The "system" that keeps getting mentioned is Capitalism. Lets just rip that bandaid off now. We all live under capitalism. That's not some pseudo political tiktok buzzword. It's a fact. At its core, capitalism rewards profit, growth, and returns on investment for the select few who benefit from it. In many industries and from certain positions of privilege, that's not necessarily controversial. The problem is what happens when that profit driven mindset expands and colonizes areas for the public good, like healthcare, housing, education, and food (to name a few). Areas that are essential for average people to survive, and are basic rights for ALL human beings, but especially those who are already paying taxes to facilitate those benefits in society in the first place.

Since the 1970s-1980s, when Reagan and neoliberalism first took off, profit focus initiatives have increasingly infected the basic needs of our everyday lives. And everything from our nightly news to the movies we watch, to the music we listen to, encourages us to abide by this economic system for the "greater good" even increasingly at our expense.  The result is that we are conditioned since birth to celebrate capitalism and what it values: Endless growth, record profits, soaring stock prices (The Dow is over 50,000 right now, guys!), billionaires, rag-to-riches success stories, and of course the highly revered and coveted position of CEO. And a lot of us do, without question, exchanging our liberties for the blind misguided fantasy that one day we will be just like them. Never ever asking ourselves how they got the money to afford all of that first place. 

What is the ethical and societal benefit of 10 billionaires? Hell, even just ONE billionaire, especially in a world where people can’t afford to eat? How do companies make record profits during a recession? During a pandemic?? Why do so many workers face layoffs or financial struggle while the companies they helped become profitable continue to do thrive?

Those questions rarely get asked or answered by the powers that be.

That's why I think as supporters, focusing entirely on BT misses the point. He wasn't the system of capitalism itself. He didn’t create it. He was just a cog within it. A big cog, sure, but still one part of something much larger and complex.

The clearest example of this is what happened after his death. Like any broken cog, he was replaced almost immediately after, I think within a week or two. UHC kept operating business as usual. The other predatory health insurance industries kept operating too.  The incentives that shaped his and other CEOs decisions remained exactly where they were. Sure, this murder caused their stock to drop and they are still fighting the negative press to this day (which something at least, that's great), but the reality is they have the profits to outlast and the PR to outmaneuver all of this backlash in the years to come. In other words, despite this bump in the road, they'll be fine, unless we start targeting the true underlying problem of why they exist in the first place.

So when I say BT didn't deserve to die, what I mean is that most people like him, operating and benefiting inside this capitalist system aren't waking up every morning thinking about how more efficiently and effectively they can hurt others. There's no evil mustache twirling plan for people like him. Often their money and proximity to power insulates them from truly seeing any of the consequences of their decisions. The people’s lives they affected get dehumanized and reduced to report percentages and numbers on a spreadsheets. They don’t ever see the harm they cause. So as a result, they don’t see themselves as monsters. Nor do the people in their lives. Even most of the general public don't even see them as monsters. They don’t understand all the love for this murder and "hate for the victim"...because, well, why would they?

No one can see their privilege. And the higher up in society someone gets, the easier it becomes to lose sight of the human impact of their decisions. That’s why the system is designed that way. To hide the consequences and so those individuals working within it only see the benefits, all so this system can continue to thrive for the few who benefit. Success of the employee gets measured by growth and profits. The Shareholders/Investors/PAC Donors, [Fill in Private Funding Entity] reward those results. Bonuses get handed out. Careers advance. Backs are patted. Rinse and repeat this across ALL political and business sectors. NOT JUST HEALTH INSURANCE. This is VERY important part to understand.

Meanwhile, the everyday people harmed by those profit driven decisions remain invisible. Just necessary collateral on the road to endless growth and profit for the few. But in nature do you know what we call entities that thrive on endless growth? We call them cancer. We call them...parasites. And the "few" that facilitate this will always reward their agents of capital (whether it be a CEO or the President), and will always use their money and influence to steer the public's discord to view their endless pursuit of profit as nothing but virtuous.

So this is why someone like BT can be viewed by his friends and colleagues as a kind, humble, hard-working fellow (he probably was) while simultaneously being part of a system that causes enormous and reckless harm to others. Those two realities exist at the same time.

And that is the part I think Dateline and other bs docuseries largely miss, and also what a lot of people on both sides are missing in this conversation as well.

We are talking about political and economic systems that have not centered on public wellbeing for a long time. And this is not new. This did not just start with Trump or just "the republicans". It is about how ALL major political and economic institutions for decades in this country consistently put profit ahead of people and how that negatively shapes nearly everything in our very lives.

In that context, BT becomes less of an isolated story and more of a reflection of a much bigger structural issue. One that does not excuse or simplify the murder, but does explain why people are reacting so strongly with all kinds of opinions, yet the conversation keeps getting muddied and more confusing as this trial goes along.

The point is BT should not have had to die in order for the powers that be to pay attention to the needs of their people.

If institutions were doing what they are supposed to do, regulating harmful business practices and prioritizing public health and wellbeing (or just simply ending capitalism), we would not be here trying to make "sense" of something like this murder at all. And we would not be calling the alleged murderer a hero. I think BT's blood is just as much on their hands as the one who (allegedly) pulled that trigger.

Overall the Dateline episode, was just one of many paid advertisements for Empire. It was less interested in examining the structures that created public outrage and more interested in reinforcing faith in the institutions themselves, by trying to still gloss over that this was just a senseless act of murder instead of a desperate cry for help. This is why the message needs to be crystal clear from us, the supporters, because entities like Dateline are just a mouthpiece for the very institutions we are fighting against. They are not going to investigate or incriminate themselves. They are not going to bite the hand that feeds them.

The stench of propaganda in this episode was strong. From the framing of the "senseless" murder as some fringe event, to the circle jerk admiration for the asshats in the NYPD, to pride over the ever expanding Orwellian surveillance state in our cities, the episode's message felt clear:

You peasants and your anger are insignificant.  The real tragedy was that a man of capital was slain, not because he was important to us in anyway, but because the act caused all of you to acknowledge the cracks in our propaganda. Gave you a peak behind the curtain. It created unity against us, the owning class, and that can’t ever happen. So nothing needs to change, you understand? For your sake, let’s keep everything exactly the same. Nothing to see here.  You all just need to bury this useless anger, bury this case, bury Luigi Mangione, and move on. To something better. Move on tooo.……a brand new.....CAR!! OOoooO did you see the Bezos’ at the Met Gala? Chic! You know you can order a replica of Lauren's dress on Amazon for only $59.99! There’s a new Drake album!! Elon just blew up an another space ship that cost the entire GDP of a country! We know you’re all starving, but who cares about that, huh? He’s such a badass genius! You should want your kids to grow to be just like him. Growth! Hussle Culture! Productivity! One of the Kardashians is dating some new actor boy toy. That's it. That's breaking news headline, we just thought you should know. What...Sudan? What about it? Oh! BTW, Trump said something incoherently stupid again. You should ALL hate comment about it on all the social media. Make sure to like, post, and subscribe! Let's continue the cycle of distract and divide , all to keep you from remembering who has the really has the power here.

[andromedaceline]

Hey love your blog and takes! Could you possible help me understand why Luigi seems to always want to seek out those from UPenn or Standford? Im not from US so anything about frats/Ivy leagues makes zero sense to me, besides that they are seemly prestigious (or pretentious lol) He seems to wear it like a badge of honour like Gilman too. I have the opposite view, I feel these are out dated institutions build around pedigree and classism. It baffles me why he was trying to connect with people from institutions like that.

Thank you ❤️! I know I haven’t wrote in a while, but I liked this ask, so thought I would weigh in.

There could be a lot of reasons why someone gravitates toward alumni networks, especially when they're new to a city or trying to build a social circle. I've done the same thing myself. Connecting with people from your alma mater gives you an immediate point of common ground, making conversations, friendships, and professional connections easier to establish. Alumni events exist largely for that purpose. People attend them to network, make friends, share experiences, and sometimes help one another with career opportunities.

Ivy League schools, in particular, have strong networking cultures, which is part of what makes them so prestigious and sought after. While it's fair to criticize some of the privilege and exclusivity associated with those institutions, that doesn't mean everyone who attends them is elitist or obsessed with status. For many people, the alumni network simply functions as a familiar community and a source of connection.

Some people have described him as shy, even though there are many examples where he seems the opposite. To me, he seemed like a social person, yes, but one who was more comfortable connecting through shared interests or experiences than approaching complete strangers. Thats relatable. Alumni networks provide an easy entry point because there's already something in common. You can skip some of the awkward small talk and build rapport more naturally.

That's why I don't think the fact that he reached out to fellow alumni necessarily says much about his values or motivations. If prestige and status were truly what he was after, there were plenty of places he could have lived and worked that would have offered more influence, wealth, and recognition than in Hawaii. He had the status, credentials, and intelligence to pursue a very conventional American path to success, but he didn't.

Of course, none of us can know his motivations for certain. This is just my speculation. But seeking out alumni connections strikes me as a pretty normal human behavior. People often look for familiar communities when they're in unfamiliar environments. To me, that's a far more likely explanation than the assumption that he only valued people because of their status or background.

[junonthecouch]

what do you think about Mangionistas?

First of all, I don’t want to make personal judgments about those girls because I don’t know them, and I don’t think that would be fair.

That being said, what happened yesterday was genuinely indefensible. I’ve tried to reason through what could possibly have led them to think that saying those things — and saying them in that way — was a good idea, but I honestly cannot come up with a logical explanation.

Even the comparison to Osama Bin Laden: yes, Brian Thompson has very likely caused more indirect deaths than Osama ever did. But you would have to be incredibly socially unaware not to understand that there is a time and place for certain arguments, and that was neither. “Telling Americans the truth to their faces” is not going to trigger some revolutionary awakening. The Epstein files alone should have proven that by now.

And then, on top of that, you pair a potentially legitimate systemic critique with genuinely appalling comments directed at the victim’s family. It creates the impression that some people view the world as if it were a cartoon divided into “good guys” and “bad guys,” when reality is far more morally and socially complex than that.

I read an interesting comment on Reddit suggesting that perhaps Mangionistas see this kind of verbal aggression as a way to provoke revolt or inspire revolutionary sentiment. It’s possible that they believe that, but I also think it reflects a very immature and naïve understanding of how social change actually happens. Sometimes I genuinely wonder whether these people have ever seriously studied history. Revolutions do not emerge this way.

(Realistically, this is where I could write an entirely separate post about revolution as a political phenomenon, but I doubt anyone wants that.)

Very briefly: over the last century, it has become extraordinarily difficult to produce the kind of revolution historically associated with events like the French Revolution within developed Western countries. The situation is entirely different in nations facing extreme instability or conditions associated with the so-called “third world.”

Meaningful social change has never come from randomly provoking crowds and shouting inflammatory things into the void. Schools obviously do not teach people “how to start a revolution,” but the historical patterns are not difficult to recognize if you actually pay attention. Organized social upheaval has almost always involved sections of the “bourgeoisie”, institutional coordination, economic leverage, and long-term political structure behind it. Only after that do mass movements become effective.

Ironically, there people who identify with the political left should remember Trotsky’s observation that the true challenge of revolution is not the uprising itself, but the day after. Anyone is capable of protesting, using violence, or destroying institutions. The difficult part is building something sustainable afterward. Without structure, organization, and a coherent long-term plan, everything collapses into chaos.

At one point I also considered whether this behavior might simply be an attempt to bring public attention back to Luigi’s case. As Andy Warhol famously said, “there’s no such thing as bad publicity.” And honestly, there is truth to that — the internet constantly rewards trashy behavior with visibility and clout. But this situation is fundamentally different because there is a real person involved — Luigi — who is not free to publicly clarify his position, respond, or distance himself from any of this. So yes, perhaps these actions generate attention (especially considering how many views yesterday’s video received), but they generate attention around someone who currently has very limited ability to speak for himself. I genuinely struggle to see what the actual benefit is supposed to be.

If anyone has a perspective on that, I would honestly like to hear it!

As for the “Mangionistas” movement itself, I’ve never fully understood what it is attempting to be (though admittedly I have never followed them very closely). Is it a movement advocating for fair trials? Healthcare reform? Both?

If the goal is fair trials, then logically the movement would need to advocate for the rights of the entire American population. And unless I’m mistaken, I have not seen these people show comparable engagement with other defendants, cases, or incarcerated individuals. If fairness matters only in Luigi’s case, then by definition this stops being activism and becomes a personal cause centered around one individual.

The same logic applies if the movement is supposedly about healthcare reform.

And if the intention is somehow to combine both causes, then the project becomes even more difficult because healthcare reform and criminal justice reform are already two enormous and distinct political issues. Even with excellent organization, sustaining a movement that effectively merges both would be extraordinarily difficult — and, frankly, the organization here does not appear particularly strong to begin with.

Most importantly: you do NOT build movements like this around the name of a single person. That is one of the most basic principles of political and social organizing. Otherwise, comparisons to things like the Manson Family become inevitable. Again, this feels almost painfully obvious. Political and social movements should not revolve around a single individual, especially someone currently accused of murder and awaiting trials.

I honestly have many more thoughts about that, but I’ll stop here.

[luigiarchives]

26, 27, and 28 year old Luigi Mangione.

[lulu-x-baby]

baby was really just a baby back then 😭 ❤️‍🩹

[mochibambigi]

Fuck he’s so fucking fine

Ugh that stubble and long hair 🥵

[depsidase]

[luigis-nostrils]

compilation of these tiny cute curls near lu's ear fighting for their life 💚

[mrsluigimangione]

so kaitlyn-hater-but-lover kept flooding everyone’s asks and it got so annoying that i went digging through kaitlyn’s old twitter. tweets from 2019 to 2022. if nobody else was going to actually check the receipts, i figured i might as well.

quick disclaimer though: it looks like her bykaitjune twitter might’ve been wiped from the web archive (maybe she requested removal?), so that one’s basically gone. tragic, honestly. BUT there is another account that’s still accessible.

https://web.archive.org/web/*/twitter.com/kaitcheung*

and that one has… about 4,000 tweets.

so yeah. i read some of them. i dont have time for 4k tweets. 

anyway, people keep repeating a bunch of claims about her like they’re established facts, so here’s what i actually found:

“emotionally dependent”this one is… kinda accurate. if i’m remembering right, she literally described herself that way in some reddit posts/comments. so that’s not really people projecting — it’s something she openly acknowledged.

“depended on her parents”not really in the way people imply. she moved between cities several times on her own. there were stretches where she stayed with her parents after layoffs or during life transitions, but that’s honestly pretty normal.

“obsessed with men”okay, yes — her more recent twitter (the one people always reference) definitely had a lot of posts about dating and men. but she also talked constantly about wanting to settle down and find a life partner. if your main life goal is building a long-term relationship, it’s not exactly shocking that your tweets reflect that.

“anti-feminist”i actually didn’t see evidence of this. if anything, she came across as more progressive than people tend to assume.

“didn’t care about her friends”this one’s more complicated. some of her earlier tweets were honestly pretty harsh toward friends — like, surprisingly mean. the impression i got was that she sometimes didn’t fully grasp how hurtful her words could be. she’d say things very bluntly without seeming to realize the impact. (i do think that comment about jocks can be read like a shade)

but after she was hospitalized for bipolar disorder, there was a period where she really seemed to be trying to improve. she sounded more reflective and like she genuinely wanted to grow as a person.

then she moved to hawaii.

and somehow a lot of the more self-destructive or dependent patterns seemed to resurface.

anyway, after going through some of them, this is the theory i ended up with:

she really wanted a life partner.

she tweeted a lot about wanting kids, raising a family, breaking cycles from her own upbringing, and building a stable life with someone. it seemed like she had a pretty clear vision of the future she wanted.

and she kept trying to get there.

so by the time she met luigi, i think she was probably very ready — maybe even desperate — for it to finally work. and when she met someone who seemed genuinely husband-material, it probably felt like hitting the jackpot.

especially since they were traveling around hawaii together. that’s basically relationship honeymoon-phase speedrun mode.

so from her perspective it might have felt like: finally. this is it.

and then he left. and ghosted her.

which is why i think she held onto him so tightly afterward. with previous exes, her breakups sounded relatively amicable or she accepted their end — probably because she already knew those relationships weren’t “forever.” but with luigi, she seemed to genuinely believe he was.

so losing him wasn’t just losing the relationship. it was losing the entire future she thought she was about to have.

that would explain why the grief seems so intense — it’s not just about the person, it’s about the life she imagined.

did he love her?

i actually think he probably did.

during the period where she was working on herself, she seemed genuinely interesting — funny, curious, into learning, lots of hobbies and interests. she came across as someone pleasant to be around. it’s not hard to see why someone like luigi might have fallen for that version of her.

let’s not forget he left for surgery in May 2023 and didn’t come back until November 2023. And they’d only been friends since fall 2022—like, that’s really not that long to know someone on a super deep level, and definitely not long enough to realistically be at “best friends” level. so he probably didn’t know her that well—but that side of her, the one that was trying to improve and get better? I can see how Luigi would’ve fallen for that version of her.

but she also had moments where she’d post surprisingly hurtful things about friends and people online, in ways that made it seem like she didn’t even realize how harsh it sounded. i suspect he may have been experiencing one of those moments when she said something extremely hurtful that completely caught him off guard.

and in relationships, i suspect she could be… a lot.

That intense desire to pin down “the one” probably translated into emotional neediness and clinginess; the independence she seemed to have earlier in the year may have completely faded by the time she was with Luigi, after multiple failed relationships.

my guess is that luigi fell for that pleasant side of hers but eventually found her overwhelming. maybe he wasn’t expecting that level of intensity, and suddenly the emotional weight of the relationship was much heavier and faster than he anticipated.

so if i had to speculate, the breakup probably came more from his side because he couldn’t handle how intense she became.

and the sad part is that there really was a period after her hospitalization where she seemed to be doing well. she looked like she was genuinely trying to grow and change.

but something about the move to hawaii seemed to trigger a huge regression.

i remember seeing tweets from her bykaitjune account years ago and thinking she came across as pretty insufferable back then — mean toward friends, weirdly competitive with other women, and very fixated on men.

but in the year before her move to hawaii, she actually seemed different. calmer. more self-aware.

and that version of her?

yeah. i can see why luigi might have fallen for that person.

in a strange way it feels like both of them ended up becoming shadows of who they used to be.

like something about hawaii completely derailed both of their paths.

also she invested in nft i wonder how that went 

Thank you so much for that deep dive into Kaitlyn's social media and the possible relationship dynamics between the two.

You've put together this so well that I'll steal adopt this view 😭

I genuinely feel bad for her. She was going through a lot and all that she wanted was to build a stable marriage, home and have children. I have a feeling Luigi wanted the same. Had they met at different stages of life, it might have worked out for them.

It's like they met when they were oil and water. Had the water been pasta water, they could've created cream. But the circumstance wasn't so and they ended up separating.

[truthluigi]

https://www.tumblr.com/truthluigi/810715676428894208/if-his-parents-dont-attend-the-trials-its-a?source=share

I know someone who works as a supplier for the Mangione family, and this person knows Luigi's aunts, uncles, and close relatives. They told me it's a subject they avoid; it's as if Luigi doesn't exist. The explanation they give for his situation is that a botched back surgery affected him mentally.

They can't believe it and are devastated.

His immediate family continues with their lives, avoiding social gatherings. The one most frequently seen around the area is Lucia, because she lives near her in-laws' house, who own a real estate empire in Maryland. She attends events for her husband and his family, events that Luigi's parents used to attend before the incident. Now they only attend family gatherings.

he also told me that they started to worry when Luigi didn't get in touch, especially regarding confirming his attendance at his cousin's wedding on December 23, 2024. When other family members started asking questions, that's when his immediate family decided to file a missing person report.

That shows me that appearances do matter to him...

interesting anon 🤔

[andromedaceline]

I asked about this:

https://www.tumblr.com/andromedaceline/808895113882402816/from-this

It’s a great take (although it’s still a speculation for now). Thank you for answering. And I am curious of what do you think: If Luigi gets life sentence do you think he will keep to himself or do interviews, write a book or allow to make a documentary from his point of view? Or if he goes out one day or maybe even walks free soon (who knows, don’t come at me, it’s just WHAT IF) do you think he will completely disappear and start over (understandable tbh) or he will tell his story and try to help others in whatever ascpect?

I'm curious on your take on this and want you to know that I appreciate your blog. So far for what I have read/seen here, when you speculate, your doing in respectfully. It means a lot especially if people speculate on someone's life without being at least respectful, forgetting that the person they speculate about is also a human being. Just so you know. (And sorry for my ask for being so long).

Thank you! Appreciate you engaging with me! You ask great questions! ❤️

After this is over, will he go public or say anything?

Honestly, I don’t really know. I’m not fully familiar with how all of that works legally. It probably depends on what kind of sentence he gets and how strongly the Thompson family pushes back on him speaking out. Son of Sam laws generally stop inmates from profiting off their crimes, but they do not automatically prevent someone from speaking about their case. That said, there could still be gag orders, restrictions tied to his conviction, or even additional civil lawsuits that might limit what he is allowed to say. So it is hard to predict how that would actually play out.

If he is allowed to speak after everything is over, my guess would be maybe a one-and-done, big tell-all interview. I do not really see him writing a book, even though he is clearly a writer. Not just because of the profit issue, but also because the whole process of promoting and marketing a book feels out of character for him. It seems more likely he would choose a single interview to just answer questions and tell his story, without it coming across like he is trying to sell something. It would also let people see him and hear him for the first time, telling his side of everything, which I think he has for sure wanted to do for a LONG time. Especially after that small nod he gave at the end of the December hearing when asked if he had something to say. IDK, a one-and-done interview feels more like something he would do. A book feels too complicated and way too cringe, IMO lol.

Also if he were to go public, I think there would be heavy limits on what he could actually say about the crime. A lot would depend on the kind of message he wants to put out. There is no way authorities would allow him to justify violence or encourage any copycats, so I don't think it's going to be the interview most would want him to have. Just something very basic, surface-level, and heavily focused on his pre-crime whereabouts and reasoning.

If he were given a platform, there would almost certainly be conditions attached, especially on any mainstream institution still beholden to the capitalist status quo he was trying to defy. And again, I doubt the Thompson family would want any ongoing celebration of BT's death, so they would likely push back hard on him speaking at all or what he's allowed to say about it. Because of all that, anything he says publicly would probably end up being far more controlled and measured than people might expect.

It is also interesting to think about what the long term legacy of all this will be and how he may or may not change over time. I think some people hope he eventually has some kind of realization about his mental health and maybe shows remorse. But it is just as possible that he does not, and stays stuck in his ways, regardless of whatever consequences come after the trials. Right now the goal is to prevent him from spending the rest of his life in prison and/or facing the death penalty. I think he knows, either way, he is not walking away from this without serving serious time. So it will be interesting, years from now, to see how this experience shapes him and who he becomes, especially if he ever chooses to speak publicly.

That said, if he does serve his time and is somehow released one day, I would expect him to disappear from public view. My guess is he would return quietly and be absorbed back into the Mangione family circle, where they would likely keep him in check and everything private from then on, much like they seem to be doing now. I think he would just have a simple life and avoid the public eye, but again, that depends on how much prison wears on him and where his headspace would be upon release. Would he still trying to get his message across and fight the power? Or did would he feel he sacrificed enough, and now wants to live the rest of his life in peace? Time will tell, but I personally think it will be the latter. We'll see.

However, the only thing that would make us hear from him in large volumes though would be an acquittal. That would be f***king massive. At that point, he would have to be in the public eye, he would have no choice, because he would be literally not know a moment's peace after that.

[andromedaceline]

Do you think Kaitlyn is a pick me

Maybe, but I don't know.

I think of a pick-me as having two main traits:

Someone who is desperate for male attention.

Someone who puts other women down for not acting like them, or who brags about how different or desirable they are compared to the "others" for male approval (e.g., “I’m not like other girls,”, “Girls are too much drama, I prefer hanging out with guys.”).

She seems insecure and self-centered, but I’m uncertain whether she specifically seeks male validation. I think those insecurities make her gravitate toward the wrong guys, resulting in a perceived connection that might not actually exist. It’s unclear if that’s due to naivety or a need for validation. While this can resemble “pick-me” behavior, they don’t automatically make her one.

I also haven’t really seen or heard her put other women down or treat them like competition. She may have made a couple cringey posts about her sex life, but nothing that suggests she builds herself up by tearing others down. So, no, I personally wouldn’t consider her a pick-me, but I honestly don't know enough to make a full assessment on that.

[andromedaceline]

do you think there was anyone in his life who truly understood him like the deepest parts of his soul? i always had a feeling maybe his childhood best friends (it’s very common to be closer with your friends nowadays than with your parents or family), but he did say no one was on his wavelength. obviously he was suffering from depression so probably thought that, but still. what do you think?

Oooo great question!

Something I always found interesting was the fact not one of the people he encountered throughout his life ever said anything bad about him. Not one bad or unpleasant encounter. No arguments, fights, awkward energy, or no outspoken exchange. Even when he wasn't feeling well, he was always kind, loving, fair, great listener, great friend, just all around an amazing person.

Now, on the surface you can easily read this as he's just one of the most perfect, wonderful humans on earth, which yes, I don't doubt that being true. Or also that they are not going to publically share the negative bits for the sake of preserving his reputation currently. All true. But, just to play a little bit of a devil's advocate, I think you could loosely read that as someone who is nice, yes, but is also possibly an extreme people pleaser.

People pleasers are someone who feels a strong need to be liked, accepted, or approved of, often at the expense of their own needs, feelings, or authenticity. They are someone who gets really good at reading the room, reading others energy, and becoming whatever version of themselves feels easiest for that particular person to like. This can show up as laughing when they are drained, going along with things they are not fully okay with or feel like, or downplaying their real feelings to keep the peace. After a while, this can become exhausting and emotional taxing, constantly wearing a multiple masks for multiple people at any given time. All to stay palatable and easy to get on with, while inside they are quietly worrying that if they show up as their full, unfiltered self, they might not be accepted the same way. I know this, because, I am one too (takes one to know one lol).

So I think part of the reason not one person has anything negative to say and why he may not have found "connection" is because he was masking his true self.

As a child, whatever defiance he had in him, was probably quickly managed out at home, and when he was in public, he was groomed to always be a "good boy". Always have good manners, don't talk back, don't do anything to damage the family reputation. Don't embarrass us. Especially as Italians, I'm sure they had to endure and exhibit a lot of respectability politics over the generations to secure stability, upward mobility, and show they were the "good immigrants" to the elite white power establishments there. That kind of environment can teach you early to manage your emotions/authenticity carefully and stay within the lines.

I think when he started going to Gilman that intensified. It stopped being only about being the good, nice kid and started feeling more like survival and social currency. Boys (especially rich, competitive boys) can be mean, and they can immediately tell who's one of them and who's not. He was probably constantly navigating a minefield, almost like a game, where he had to always stay on top, always be the smart one, always one step ahead, just to prove he belonged there. I'm sure he was exhausted and anxiety ridden from it.

By the time he got to Penn, especially within a fraternity, it was just apart of this personality at that point. He was a masking pro. The connections you make in those spaces can genuinely shape your career and opportunities, so there’s a lot riding on how you’re perceived. You’re expected to project confidence and excellence at all times so people see you as someone worth investing in. Even if some of those values or pursuits aren’t things you personally care about, they become important because they matter to the people around you, so outwardly they have to matter to you too. It can start to feel like you’re performing a version of yourself that fits their expectations, rather than actually being yourself.

When he got to Stanford, I think a lot of those same habits followed him, but shifted to accommodate the new groups of people he was around. Being farther from Maryland probably gave him newer perspectives, but the people pleasing and the masking did not just disappear because he changed coasts.

Out there he seemed to shift to a very protective, loving big brother under his mentor role. I think about his friendship with Adam and Katy. I think about those text messages he sent that mentoree (don't know their name) where he was explaining how busy he was, working sixteen hour days, mentoring, apologizing for not even have time to say goodbye. The tone felt almost overly apologetic, overly careful. Like he could not stand the idea of someone being hurt or offended by him simply missing a goodbye (which is of course absolutely sweet, to be clear). That constant need to smooth things over, to make sure no one feels slighted, is also apart of that people pleasing mindset. "I'm sorry" becomes almost a reflex. You start apologizing for everything, for taking up space, for being busy, for having limits. To the people around him, he likely came across as nice, gentle, unassuming, the kind of person who is easy to like. But that does not always capture the whole picture of who someone is on the inside. His real self may very well have included those qualities, while also holding opinions, beliefs, and perspectives he might have felt others would not fully understand or relate to.

Then Hawaiʻi. New shift. Out there he becomes the comfort, the long walk, late night talks, cuddle bear guy. It feels like this is the first time in his life he's received more attention from women than he had before. That kind of shift could have felt new. And the new attention from all the beautiful hotties around him in this island paradise can be really validating, even a little intoxicating.

Not saying he was out there being a f***boy player. More that he may have enjoyed the warmth of being wanted, of being the reliable one, of having a certain status in the group because he was always so available: Need to talk? Need to vent? Need someone to hype you up? Need new ice cream? Need someone to watch sunsets with at Magic Island? Need someone to walk drunk you to the store at 1am for mochi? Call me! Day or night, I’m here for you! The more he showed up, the more people appreciated him, and that appreciation probably reinforced his role.

Disclaimer: To be clear, I am not saying he was fake or that his kindness was not genuine. It clearly was. It just stands out how often he was the one showing up for everyone else, being their rock. How no one saw or noticed any other sides of him except the one he wanted to show them.

But nobody can pour endlessly without running dry. At some point your cup empties, and you start scrambling to figure out how to refill it. You start losing yourself. By the time Kaitlyn came along, especially with everything he was dealing with physically, I think he was depleted, and just did not have anything left to give emotionally. It can hit you all at once, that realization that you have been living for other people your whole life, shaping yourself around what they need, and somewhere along the way losing track of what you actually want for yourself.

Even around those who likely would never judge you, it's hard to tell, it's hard to trust. Connecting deeper than the superficial can be very hard. That's a muscle you have to constantly work, it doesn't just naturally happen just from knowing someone for a long time or even living with them. You can be friends with someone for years, and never truly know them.

Being truly seen means taking off the mask, and for some people that can feel like losing control, which is scary. Control becomes the comfort zone because you decide what others get to see and what stays hidden. That sense of control feels safe. But the tradeoff is that real connection becomes harder. When you spend so much time being different things for different people, you can start to lose touch with who you really are. And if you are not fully sure who you are, it becomes difficult not only to find people who truly match your wavelength, but even to understand what that wavelength is in the first place.

It's not surprising that most of us find it hard to fully understand him or pin down his exact values, because he may still have been figuring them all out himself, on the journey to figure out himself. That could also help explain why he struggled to feel a sense of belonging with family or peer groups. Instead, he gravitated toward spaces that felt more outlier and fringe, searching for that connection in very different spaces from where he came from or where he was expected to belong all in desperation to find/explore others who might understand him.

So in answer to your question, no. I don't think he found people to connect to. I just don't think it was because he couldn't find any one or no one cared. I think it may have been by his own design as well, to not let himself be seen and get truly close to anyone.

[moonrosario]

dad luigi giving his kids a stern look when they misbehave

[mangobabydaddy-deactivated20260]

The part that fascinates me is the homicidal ideation. Did he always have it? How did it develop? What boxes were ticked?????

Long ramble and wild speculation ahead:

I definitely think there was a shift around the beginning of 2024 in Luigi’s mental state and his perception of himself and society at large. He started following and interacting with manosphere-adjacent content and retweeted several posts about feeling undervalued as a man in modern society. Men have been traditionally regulated to two roles in late stage capitalist societies- a producer of sex and a producer of labor. While Luigi had a healthy social life and a wide variety of hobbies, he was always a hard worker and overachiever in both college and the workforce. It’s my personal speculation that he couldn’t maintain a steady job of high caliber or perform sexually because of the effects of his injury, which caused a rapid destabilization of identity. We sentiment espoused on his Reddit in April 2024: “Tell them you are "unable to work" / do your job. We live in a capitalist society.” It’s my theory he chose to travel Asia specifically because Eastern philosophies traditionally empathize the present self and nature over materialism and wealth. Contrary to his expectations, Luigi observed the same sicknesses plaguing America were alive and well in Asia- commodification of sex, adherence to rigid identities regarding jobs and social codes, etc. His loss of personal identity intermingled with his disillusionment of society at large. This disconnection from himself and his social environment led to a sense of isolation and profound “otherness”, hence his subsequent ghosting of others when he returned from his trip.

I think it’s plausible Luigi was also suffering from some form of trauma, which can amplify homicidal ideation. He was asking Gurwinder about epigenetics and was adamant trauma and depression had a biological basis. Trauma causes profound changes in the prefrontal cortex, affecting decision making and executive functioning; in turn, the amygdala is activated into hyperdrive, leading to emotional dysregulation and an inability to control intrusive thoughts. It’s my theory Luigi’s medical trauma retriggered his brain fog symptoms as well, as underactivation of the prefrontal cortex is associated with brain fog symptoms (especially in neurodivergent individuals). While Luigi was calculated in his planning and methods, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say he had personal motives and there were biological factors at play that ultimately led to his fixation on killing Brian Thompson. It’s common for victims to experience homicidal ideation after severe trauma, and the profound isolationism Luigi experienced definitely contributed to his hyper focus on retribution.

I feel like people get hung up on the fact Luigi came from a wealthy background when discussing his resentment against the health insurance industry. “He was rich, his family could pay for his surgery!” While this is technically true, back surgery without insurance can cost over $150,000. That’s over half of Luigi’s estimated annual salary at TrueCar, and we do not know the role his parents played in his life during this time. It’s likely Luigi had his surgery repeatedly denied by insurance and various doctors based on his young age, a criteria set forth and upheld by insurance policies (this is mostly speculation, it’s hard to determine specific facts and circumstances without access to his medical records). Luigi had to wait over a year and a half between when his spondylitis “went bad” and his back surgery, long enough for permanent nerve damage to occur. Regardless of his ability to pay for surgery, he is a victim of a broken medical system largely dictated by private insurance.

Luigi recognized his personal experiences reflected a broken societal system, and committed his action as a way to reclaim his autonomy after experiencing severe trauma. Humans will always strive for purpose and survival; it’s why our bodies instinctively thrash and kick wildly when we’re drowning, why we have those pesky fight or flight responses that cause us so much anxiety. Brian Thompson’s death was as much about personal salvation as it was a wider condemnation of American greed that is literally killing us.

[bornresilient]

[andromedaceline]

From this one:

https://www.tumblr.com/andromedaceline/808321112190730240/your-kaitlyn-takes-are-some-of-the-best-ive-seen

This part: "Not really healing his emotional wounds or internal struggles. Things there way back from when he was a child."

What do you mean by that?

(Thank you for explaining)

NP! Thank you for reading, and apologies this took me a while to write, but I wanted to make sure I got all my thoughts out on this because in those two sentences there's a lot to unpack and explain.

What I was initially getting at is that Luigi obviously seemed to struggle a lot mentally/emotionally. After his surf accident, he seems to slowly spiral, until he is eventually telling his friend before he disappeared he was having a “hard time” and "no one understood him". Plus, there's some reason to believe he was also carrying a lot of emotional weight/trauma from his family and childhood in general (more on that later).

Throughout Luigi's timeline, there are a few key breaks or disconnects, especially the 2 years before the murder, and the move to Hawaii feels like the first major one. By disconnect, I mean a moment where he felt the need to escape something overwhelming, frightening, or unavoidable (I theorize there's about 3 major breaks during that time that ultimately led him to the path he's on). On the surface, Hawaii was the perfect antithesis to the nonstop academic grind he endured at Gilman, UPenn, and Stanford. It gave him a chance to slow down, live his dream life, and meet new people from all walks of life. But, it also seems like more than that.

After graduating college, I'm going to speculate he was at a crossroads. Stay on the West Coast and find a cushy tech desk job (then eventually go back home) or just immediately go back home to Maryland and take up his place as heir to the Mangione family business.

Since he comes from a well known and well respected Italian family in Maryland, with his father running this multi-business empire that his grandfather built from scratch, and as his father's only son, Luigi was likely seen as the next and best successor, just as his father was.

With his intelligence and exceptional academic achievements, the expectation and excitement that he would one day take over the family business was probably enormously felt from everyone in his family and his hometown community as a whole.

Yet even from a young age, he seemed resistant to the path of conformity and tradition laid out by his family. Based on his childhood stories, he was clearly very bright, pragmatic, precocious, maybe a bit stubborn, and often questioning the rigid rules and socially constructed conditioning around him.

Even back then, he seemed to want something completely different for himself than his family and peers back home. So now as an adult, instead of returning home after college or working a boring conventional tech bro life, for him, Hawaii may have been his way of stepping off both those paths, and at least, buying himself some time to breathe and figure out what he actually wanted, not what was expected/chosen for him.

However, once he experienced the freedom of Hawaii, it's clear he never wanted to go back. Aside from returning briefly to find treatment/surgery, he never really settled in Maryland again (as far as we know). In fact after Hawaii, he seemed to aimlessly drift for a while in San Francisco before officially falling off the face of the earth. There are many possible explanations for this, but my personal interpretation is that he was running and did not want to face his family, especially his father, nor the responsibilities waiting for him there.

One thing I’ve always found interesting is that in all the stories and informational tidbits that trickle in about his life, we’ve heard basically nothing, zero about his father. Other than the fact that he has one and he runs the family enterprise. That's really it. There's no stories involving his dad throughout his life, rumors, fun facts, or any real glimpses into what their relationship was like, before or after the murder. Zip. Yes, there are some photos of them together, and they look happy enough, but nothing that really tells us whether they were truly close, distant, or somewhere in between.

If I missed something involving him in Luigi's life feel free to point it out, but from I can see, it’s mostly crickets from Dad. So obviously what I'm writing is complete speculation. I’m just exploring one of many possible explanations, but, this to me seems most plausible.

Obviously, the family is trying to distance themselves as much as possible from Luigi right now too, which is understandable. Still, it is a bit striking that he did not appear involved in the public search for his son, or in communicating with the PI when Luigi was missing, or even with the FBI like his wife did before anyone even knew what had happened in New York. It's also interesting that when Luigi was arrested, at the station, when asked who he wanted to call he only mentions his mother. Likewise, we never get a direct statement from dad on behalf of the family, given he's the head of it publically. As far as I remember, the only family statement ever provided came through Luigi's f**khead cousin, Nino, which is an odd choice, if you ask me.

Of course, none of this proves wrongdoing, abuse, or even any real estrangement from his father, so please don't take this as me criticizing or villainizing him. Not at all. I'm just curious. The closest thing we know is that some kind of "rift" formed between him and his family back in 2023, possibly around the holidays, which may have contributed to Luigi (among other things) to pull further away from the people in his life and eventually run away to Asia (the second disconnect).

My personal interpretation is that the "rift" may have been about his life direction. One can assume his father was probably becoming very frustrated with him at that point. Feeling like Luigi was wasting his time, talent, and potential in Hawaii, and at the very least, if he wasn’t going to work for the family, then he needed to do something with his life.

Also, from what I gather, his father was an older parent, already middle aged when Luigi was born. So as the years progress, he was probably thinking more and more about the future of the family legacy and when/if his son would finally step into a larger role.

It is possible that this pressure created distance between them, or even that Luigi just told him flat out that he did not plan to ever take over the family business at all, which could have been a very painful and disappointing revelation, thus causing his father to estrange from him too (hence the all around radio silence).

So with that in mind, I can understand why Luigi may have avoided going back home at all costs. Also, pride could have played a role too. Since, eventually Hawaii didn't work out for him, the idea of facing his father/family, and seeing all those “I told you so” looks would probably be gut-wrenching for Luigi. (If they in fact had any objection to him moving to Hawaii in the first place, which I personally have a feeling they did.)

Then having to come back with his tail between his legs, fall in line, and conform to a future pre-chosen for him from birth. That may have felt less like an honor, and more like a burden, even a kind of prison. Something he did not want to bear, and possibly added to his anxiety, stress, and further mental decline. Like he has a ticking clock behind him always.

Throughout his life, especially by 2024, he seemed deeply fixated on autonomy and feeling in control of his own destiny.

This desire was mentioned to the author of Luigi The Making and the Meaning (not a bad read btw), who interviewed Substack writer, Gurinder Bhogal. During the interview, Gurinder gave a little more details to the author about his 2-hour video conversation with Luigi in May 2024.

A lot of their conversation focused on autonomy, or a person’s desire and ability to live by their own choices and values, free from outside control or pressure. To avoid becoming a mindless "NPC". A topic Gurinder wrote about in a few articles that Luigi liked and wanted to discuss in more detail during the call.

But, according to Gurinder, at one point, Luigi brought up his own family's intergenerational traumas/secrets and even shared a very specific "family trauma" with him during the call. Now, Gurinder refused to disclose further what it was, just that he mentioned it in relation to the topics they discussed.

If true, it could mean there was some deep unresolved trauma or conditioned behaviour passed down through his family to him that had a huge effect on him. It could help explain how carried himself as an adult, why he always felt this need to “escape”, and why trusting people may have been very difficult for him, especially with his family or significant others. Through him wanting to control his life, he my have wanted to figure out how to avoid allowing this trauma to dictate the decisions in his life, similar to potentially how he saw it did for his parent(s). That he may have made him caught between defining who he was and who his family expected him to be. Add on him also dealing with grief and frustration of his back injury robbing him physically of his autonomy all in his prime, he must have felt like the walls were closing in on him from all directions. Hence his repeated desire to disconnect completely from it, escape, and start over again new (again, just my theory). That extreme pressure and anxiety around his family and life in general during that time, could’ve evolved from not only just running away from problems, people, and responsibilities, but to eventually taking on an alias, and becoming someone else new entirely.

One last thing I always found interesting about his story, is that he seemed to never sought professional help (as far as we know). There's no leaks or rumors from any one close to him that he had or was seeing a therapist at any point, nothing mentioned on his reddit, or any indication he was interested in therapy at all (I know that kind of thing is kept confidential between therapists and their clients, but still it's odd there's not even a hint) .

Instead he seemed to solely rely on self help books, blogs, internet pseudo-intellectuals, and social media in general to understand what he was feeling inside and how to manage it. Very DIY spirited.

While therapy is not a guaranteed solution, it has been known to help many people facing similar struggles, some he was aware of in himself, like family trauma, brain fog/cognitive decline, anxiety, and depression. I would say on average it helps way more than any of the other solutions he was resorting to above. So I find it fascinating, that someone like him, who seemed to take a lot of time and care to research EVERYTHING extensively, consult professionals, and find the best possible solutions to any problem he was facing, like he did with computer science, his back surgery, and what I imagine he's doing now with his trials, that we never hear or see him once mention therapy as viable solution. It makes me wonder whether it just never cross his mind? Did he intentionally avoided it or possibly tired, but never found the right fit?

Finding a therapist can be a lot like dating, and the wrong experience can discourage people from repeatedly trying until they find the right one. Which is exhausting, so I can understand the latter.

Either way, I'm very curious to know what his views on therapy were/are currently, whether he ever seriously considered it, and if not, why?

Anyway, apologies for the long post. I think there's something there in his family dynamic and childhood that led him here, I wonder if we'll ever get a chance to know if/what it was and how it shaped him. But yea, I think he struggled with a lot, but just didn't know how to healthily regulate himself so that it didn't spiral out of control. It’s not easy, especially trying to do it on your own.