hello, sorry to bother you! i saw you show up a lot when i looked up anti-endo here so i thought you might have an opinion on this.
what do you think of schizo-spec "systems"? putting in quotes just in case. i have a longer post about this you can read if you'd like: https://www.tumblr.com/serendipity-sys/820291845839077376/note-i-dont-identify-as-endo-and-please-try?source=share
up until recently i've been ostensibly/vaguely pro-endo, but i'm questioning whether i should be; i've so far described my stpd-based separation of selves as a system, as that is the easiest way to compartmentalize it with the terminology available, though it's dawning on me that this may be incorrect. i don't know enough about dissociative disorders and traumagenic systems to say so.
and i know whatever you end up saying doesn't stand for the whole community (people with dissociative disorders are not a monolith), but i still think it's worth getting your opinion regardless.
my apologies if this comes off as rude in any way! thank you for your time! <3
Thank you for asking respectfully.
Personally, I don't consider the schizophrenia-spectrum self-disorders and dissociative systems to be the same phenomenon.
In schizophrenia-spectrum self-disorders, researchers describe disturbances of a "minimal" or "core" self. The model assumes the existence of a fundamental sense of selfhood (ipseity) which becomes unstable or disrupted. Experiences such as identity confusion, altered self-world boundaries, diminished self-coherence, and weakened feelings of "mineness" are understood as disturbances affecting that underlying self.
Dissociative disorders are generally conceptualized differently. Modern theories of DID/OSDD do not typically describe a single intact "core" self being disrupted. Rather, the personality itself is not integrated into a unified whole, resulting in dissociated parts or self-states. In that sense, the parts are not usually understood as existing alongside some separate "real" or "core" identity; they are collectively the personality in different states.
Because of that, I think schizophrenia-spectrum self-disturbance and dissociative systems are describing fundamentally different structures of selfhood, even if both can involve dissociation, identity confusion, or feelings of internal division.
Those experiences are absolutely real. However, they are not generally described in the literature as autonomous dissociative identities or alters.
This is where I think a lot of conversations become muddled. Childhood trauma is not the only thing that can lead to self-fragmentation, identity disturbance, dissociation, or a feeling of being "more than one." We see forms of self-fragmentation across multiple conditions, including schizophrenia-spectrum disorders, personality disorders, depersonalization, and others.
But not all self-fragmentation is systemhood.
The fact that two experiences may share identity confusion or a sense of internal division does not necessarily mean they are the same underlying phenomenon.
For that reason, I personally don't think "system" is the most accurate framework for schizophrenia-spectrum self-disorders. Not because the experiences aren't real, but because the literature generally describes them differently than dissociative identity states. The similarities seem largely surface-level, while the underlying structure appears distinct.
I think it's completely reasonable to describe experiences of self-disturbance, self-fragmentation, identity confusion, or internal division. I just don't think that every experience of a fragmented self should automatically be categorized as a system.
If every form of identity disturbance, self-fragmentation, compartmentalization, or internal conflict were considered systemhood, then we'd have to start calling large portions of BPD, schizophrenia-spectrum disorders, depersonalization disorders, and other conditions 'systems' as well—which isn't how those conditions are understood in clinical settings.
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