Untitled @astarionenjoyernumber42 - Tumblr Blog

The right to "live a full life," "the freedom to do anything" versus "radiant hoax." Part 5.

Quoted post:

💬 18 🔁 43 ❤️ 149 · About Spawn Astarion’s polite façade and how, according to the critics of the radiant hopeful ending, it supposedly doe

“And well, the lawyer for Spawn Astarion’s rights…” – It is you, esteemed lawyer, who must speak at the podium in the High Hall before the Council of Four (it is unclear what will happen to the government and what will happen to the Upper City in general after the final battle, but previously it was the main government building and governing body in Baldur's Gate). To demand that they give the vampire spawns some rights.

“It’s honestly incredibly sad to still (and I mean STILL) read takes about spawn!Astarion portraying him as this spineless, clingy weakling — utterly dependent on Tav/Durge, incapable of doing anything on his own, someone who would endure any kind of mistreatment with a polite, painted-on smile. All of it based on a few conveniently twisted, cherry-picked lines from his spawn route.”

Where? Who? Can you provide a quote from a source in which critics write that Astarion is “spineless, clingy weakling — utterly dependent on Tav/Durge”? Or that he is “incapable of doing anything on his own”? I can recall a similar opinion about Astarion, but not from critics of “redemption,” but from the author of the post:

"This is why, even if reluctantly (and despite his fear), he ends up leaning on Tav/Durge. Astarion is a follower, not a leader—not yet, at least. He needs a guiding figure to help him figure out what to do because making decisions and acting independently don’t come naturally to him; they terrify him.”

I can explain how I personally chose the lines, criticizing the UA path in the game (not Astarion, but the path as a choice option). Playing through for analysis—I load the save before the ritual, check the results of failed and then successful dice rolls. Then I save before each scene and choose each of Tav's lines to see Astarion's reaction. And what struck me the most, what I remember the most — that's what makes for “cherry-picked lines.” But if you, dear author of the post, want to prove that they are “twisted,” then I'll tell you how to do it right: take the quote I gave and the link to the post where I gave it, then take the original, unaltered quote from the game, and show what was twisted in this quote and how. Please, it's not difficult; if the line was changed or distorted, it's very easy to prove.

Situations on the UA route when Astarion endures abusive treatment from Tav:

Response to Tav's line: “Then don't mess it up” (attitude of a toxic, devaluing partner). Memories of suffering, followed by 200 years of torture. Then Astarion tried to open up, telling this “partner” how valuable they were to him, how important they were in his life. And this piece of shit tells him: “Then don't mess it up.” “Then don't mess it up” = “You are capable of ruining everything.” And the command is: don't be yourself, be what I want you to be.

“I will endeavour to please”.

«I'd like to add that, in the graveyard scene, if Tav tells Astarion something like "don't mess up this time" (a very cruel, callous line), Astarion doesn't get mad. He doesn't stand up for himself.

He says, "I aim to please."

That's not the line of a free man. That is the concession of a slave. He's just traded one master (Cazador) for another (Tav). Surely Tav is a better choice than Caz, that can't really be argued, but a master is a master all the same.

Earlier in the game, if Tav pushes against his boundaries (pressuring him to drink the freaky drow's blood, pressuring him to have sex), he breaks up with them the following day. But, after being denied his freedom, he regresses on that self-determination. He slips back into a slave's mindset - being insulted isn't met with offense. He simply promises to be a better servant, to follow directions more accurately.” © Murderenjoyer

“Spineless, clingy weakling” – those aren't my words and never have been. My words are that this scene is painful to watch. And the fact that this line seems to reflect the whole essence of the fixer's “arc of redemption” – those are my words too. Astarion, with his trauma, may become the victim of a new abuser — Tav, these are also my words, but that doesn't make him a “weakling”; it's the tragedy of two hundred years of slavery. And Astarion can stand up for himself before the ritual; he breaks off the relationship when Tav forces him to bite the drow and pressures him into sex. After the Ascension, Astarion also will not allow offensive treatment of himself. But after being deprived of the opportunity to obtain true freedom, Astarion does not perceive the insult as an insult, he shows neither anger nor resentment, he promises to “please.”

And that is:

Tav: “That sounds very sincere. Are you sure the parasite hasn't chewed through your brain?” This is after Astarion's story about how: “I had to punch a hole in the coffin and claw my way through six feet of dirt. Then when I finally broke the surface, retching up dirt and congealed blood, Cazador was waiting.”

What's “twisted” here?

“Please, let's not simplify him; that would be a crime.” Michanvalentine wrote in their previous posts, and now they claim that critics of the fixer's arc describe Astarion as “spineless, clingy weakling” — hmm, of course, I myself would be disgusted to communicate with someone who describes Astarion that way, but let's see if that's really the case.

The best explanation for the scene in the graveyard.

Murderenjoyer:

“If the scene at the graveyard is UA's ‘playfulness’ and ‘sarcasm’, then he's doing it from behind a mask. He's hiding part of his true feelings from Tav. He's not emotionally comfortable enough to talk openly and honestly about his experiences without adding a nervous 'ha ha, just kidding... or am I?'

This is unhealthy emotional behavior. This behavior does not correspond to the canon of “healing from 200 years of trauma after one good catharsis” adhered to by supporters of the UA truth theory. This is evasion, this is submission, this is a desperate desire to please, this is him conducting a discussion as if tiptoeing through a minefield. Undoubtedly, this is exactly the attitude he needed to maintain with Casador, fearing that any wrong word, any wrong intonation, any wrong body language would infuriate his former master.

In psychology, this reaction to trauma is called hypervigilance. It means that a person is afraid of punishment and imminent rejection every second.

And when does this refusal occur? When Tev tells him not to screw up? This confirms his deeply rooted worldview that everything and everyone, even his own beloved, is dangerous and unreliable. This reinforces his self-criticism and feelings of inferiority, which go beyond the role of a tool.

This person's self-esteem is in complete decline. He considers himself, in essence, a walking dildo, an object in human form, a thing and a tool for others to use. These are the beliefs that Cazador has been hammering into him for centuries.

Therefore, I cannot understand how anyone could perceive his dialogue “I will endeavour to please” in the graveyard and not perceive it as something deeply tragic. There is no emotional growth in it. Rather, there is regression. He doesn't even cry about it. He has come to terms with his fate. He has fully realized that he exists to please others — and let his own desires, needs, and feelings be damned.”

Astarion accepts humiliation even from his ex, when he no longer has anything to do with this particular Fixador, having already been abandoned:

Tav: "You seem... happy. Are you sure you haven't been drinking blood?"

Astarion: “No, this is all me, I swear”.

More details in Loremmaradeur's post:

💬 2 🔁 15 ❤️ 27 · "Ascended Astarion is trapped in his fear of Cazador and the world in Cazador's view point, he lets his fears control him

photo from Loremmaradeur's post:

This shows how insecure he really is and how unsafe he feels when he has to justify himself simply for being a vampire, for needing blood to survive, even to an outright piece of shit. But to call him a “spineless, clingy weakling” for that — no, no one is trying to portray him that way. This is a man who is surviving as best he can in a dangerous and cruel world. “The need to lie always comes from the feeling of fear. You can't tell the truth, it won't be safe for you — you lie.” © Loremmaradeur. Yes, and sometimes this fear is a necessary survival mechanism, not only a consequence of C-PTSD, but also simply a correct assessment by the mind of the possible consequences. Only an idiot would call a person who, for example, smiles at a police officer in a dictatorial state and says, “No, I didn't even think anything like that, I swear,” a “spineless weakling.”

It seems that this fake story about AA fans allegedly despising UA, calling him “weak” etc., is spreading in a similar way — when criticism or dislike of this path itself (rejection of ritual as a game choice) or analysis of how bad Astarion feels on this path, his fears, the consequences of his C-PTSD, his reactions to Tav's disgusting behavior are presented as “portraying him as this spineless, clingy weakling — utterly dependent on Tav/Durge.”

“Secondly, spawn!Astarion lives his un-life just fine as a single man. He doesn’t need to be attached to a partner to survive. He’s independent, autonomous, content — and if you talk to him six months after the end of the game, he regrets absolutely nothing.”

I agree with those who believe that on the path of UA, Astarion is better off without Tav, and that Astarion alone appears more liberated, because only in this case does he say that he now controls his own destiny. And emotional dependence on a partner who does not deserve them in a person with C-PTSD is not at all the same as the need to attach oneself to a partner in order to survive. This is a gross distortion of the essence of the issue. Yes, the lonely UA is autonomous and independent: “I decided not to be defined by the choices other people made — by what other people did to me. My past may be done, but my present — my future — they're mine.” The choice was made for him, but now that he is free, he will not miss a single opportunity if it presents itself. Moreover, he says “other people” in the plural. Not just about Casador. The “hero” who decided that “He knows what he wants but not what he needs!” is also among them. But the fact that he is “content” and “regrets absolutely nothing”... This can only be believed if you have never seen this epilogue with your own eyes. Or is this a good example of how the factual truth can be distorted to suit someone's own “narrative”.

“I felt... ashamed. Like I'd lost everything, just as you claimed your victory.”

This is what Astarion felt at that moment when...

There is also a subtle hint in this line:

“Ha! Hardly. 'Good' people don't spend as much time lurking in the dark as I do.”

Yes, those damn “good” people don't have to do that.

“Every day I yearned for the sun and mourned my curse to live in the shadows.”

“I've been exploring the world, looking for anything that will let me walk in the sun again.

No joy yet, but I've killed plenty of monsters on the way.”

And the worst thing for me personally in this finale (if in the previous lines Astarion also talked about how he tried to fight, to look for something, then this is...):

“I did at first, but then I realised - these shadows, this darkness - it's all part of me.”

When you've read all kinds of bullshit about how “he learned to love shadows” and “is living life to the fullest” in the epilogue (I'm not referring to a specific post, but rather to many similar ones), and then you experience it yourself, hear his words, hear his voice, and see the expression on his face—it's unforgettable.

Loremmaradeur writes about this line:

“Then goes the talk about him "embracing the shadows" (because Astarion is an unstoppable force when it comes to survival, and he does the best what it means to survive in given circumstances; there is literally nothing else he can actually do) and this line of PC.

I'm glad to hear it. Acceptance look good on you.

It almost sounds like a joke.”

I would like to add that this line for PCs is like a “joke-mockery.” Mockery from the mouth of a complete piece of shit. And Astarion… Astarion, yes, survives, copes. He is a strong personality, no matter what happens to him.

“Here’s what single Spawn Astarion has to say to his critics: he doesn’t need to apologize — he is what he is, for better or for worse…”

What “his critics”? Why plural? The line is correct, but the plural form is precisely the distortion in this case. Astarion responds to a specific bitch-Tav, who replies to his words:

“This is who I am. In all my glory, for better and for worse.”

It is no longer veiled mockery, but a specific insult:

“More worse than better, I’d say.”

Astarion: “Then so be it. I've been through Hells metaphorical and literal, and this is what I am. I will not apologise.”

Essentially, it's the same as in the epilogue of the lonely Ascended Astarion, when Tav calls him “just like Cazador,” and he replies, “Try to wound me all you like, but I'm so much better than he ever was.” Only the Ascended laughs charmingly at this and clearly doesn't care what Tav thinks. This is the reaction of a confident, independent person who is definitely healing from his trauma (the trigger of comparison with his tormentor no longer works as a trigger), he can laugh at his unsuccessful offenders and understands their motives perfectly well. Here, on the path of UA, his reaction is also dignified, but there is a difference between veiled mockery and direct, overt condemnation. In the case of the “fucking cop” ("You seem... happy. Are you sure you haven't been drinking blood?“) and ”Acceptance looks good on you,“ it probably still makes sense to lie and kind of go along with their ugly ”goodness,“ but when, despite everything, Astarion is still not ‘accepted’ and continues to be ”judged," there is no point anymore.

Comparing critics of the “fixer's arc” to Tav, who thinks Astarion is bad (“More worse than better, I'd say.”), is pretty funny because it's like a projection. Like, if AA haters have “Astarion's split personality,” — as if there were two different characters in the game — then fans of the Ascension path (especially those who hate the very choice of refusing the ritual) should also choose one of the two Astarions born from the “pre-ritual ancestor” during the dice roll/helping Astarion without a dice roll, and criticize the “other twin.” Analyzing the events happening to Astarion, evaluating his behavior and reactions to certain events in the game, and criticizing Astarion as a person in the style of “is he good or bad” are completely different things. To make it easier to understand, imagine a kind of multiverse where the same people live different lives, find themselves in different situations, and behave differently depending on what happens to them (as in the cartoon Rick and Morty). And imagine that you find yourself (or peek into) another version of the multiverse where you don't exist, but your loved one does, and they live in much worse circumstances or conditions than in your multiverse, and instead of you, there is some bastard next to them (this is my attitude towards Tav when I play through UA's path for analysis, maybe it's because I didn't play games specifically for analysis before, didn't test nasty lines, but played just for fun, choosing only “my lines”). If you start evaluating what is happening in this multiverse, will it be a criticism of your loved one? Rejecting them personally for finding themselves in such circumstances? I'm not going to come up with headcanons about what Astarion would say in response to criticism of his “fixer's arc,” but it's clearly not the same as what he says to Tav, who considers him “More worse than better,” lol.

“For heaven’s sake, reducing a character this strong to that just to make one’s arguments sound smarter is absurd.” – I return the author’s argument to them: “The Ascension literally changes him—turns him into something he’s not, into a type of unnatural vampire that didn’t even exist before. And it’s in that exact moment that he becomes a true monster with no chance of redemption—because he chooses to go from victim to predator.” If I have absurdly denied the strength of Astarion’s character on the UA path, please feel free to throw that back at me too. I will explain what I actually meant, or publicly admit that I am a hypocritical bastard—I'm ready. Here is my attitude towards Astarion:

💬 3 🔁 14 ❤️ 61 · Astarion is a strong character. In any case and regardless of what happened to him. · I've seen statements online like “A

Astarion's refusal to leave his beloved in the case of Durge or Tav - half-illithid (incidentally, in both cases, Tav/DU themselves do not want to break up, but experience problems due to fear of causing harm in the case of DU, or rejection of their new form) does not negate those scenes where Astarion himself should have left his toxic partner. Astarion loves and accepts Tav/DU regardless of almost anything, but he also idealizes this person who is special to him. Here's another example of Astaron idealizing his partner and not valuing himself enough, the line: “Oh shit. I - did I do something wrong?” which he says to Tav, who wants to leave him. He did nothing wrong, absolutely nothing. But he doesn't think that Tav is a traitor; he immediately thinks that he did something wrong, that he “didn't please” them. This is probably the same Tav who said to him in the graveyard scene, “Then don't mess it up,” and Astarion replied, “I will endeavour to please.” The willingness to please, to adapt, and to be vulnerable to those who don't deserve you is, in my opinion, something else entirely, not “personal growth.” Especially for someone who was a slave for 200 years and was forced to please and adapt. Astarion is emotionally dependent on Tav, and this is a consequence of his trauma, in my opinion. Tav is the only person he loves. Tav is the best thing that has happened to him after two hundred years of torture, pain, and humiliation. He doesn't know what a real relationship is or what true love looks like. He doesn't think he deserves better. But that doesn't make him a “spineless, clingy weakling.” — it's the cruel reality of the consequences of his PTSD. It's painful to watch someone who is so vulnerable to the one he loves, like Astarion, fall into the clutches of the predator Tav, who may drag him into a brothel, forcing him to experience PTSD and dissociation again.

“Maybe it’s better if we’re friends for now? You’re precious to me, and I don’t want to lose you—but this is a lot…»

In the romance, it is also evident that after the Ascension, Astarion honestly tells Tav-illithid what he thinks, while UA thinks the same but is apprehensive and says what is “expected.” And “Maybe it's better if we're friends for now?” is a classic softened and veiled version of the words, “I don't want to be with you.” The Ascended honestly explains why it's better if they're friends for now.

“Haha! Oh darling, please. I can't have something like this as my lover. The mechanics alone...” - yes, Astarion hides his emotions behind sarcasm, but really, how is that even possible? How is it even possible to do that with an illithid (without having some kind of special fetish)? At the same time, AA says that Tav was something special: “It is a shame, though. You were something special.” And “I'll never forget the person you used to be - the beauty I bedded, the warrior I fought beside, the hero that saved this city.”

Becoming an illithid is truly foolish, and it is also essentially a betrayal of your loved one. In romance, Tav doesn't care about their loved one or how they will feel about it. In their opinion, they really should hug and kiss and see an illithid every day (remember the Emperor's advances, how disgusting it is when a half-naked illithid offers you that). Even though there is Karlach in the group, and there is also Orpheus, and Astarion himself is very concerned about his beloved, who is ready to become an illithid, and insists on finding other options. But when someone very close to you does something that you might judge negatively, it's unlikely that you'll be able to start despising them for it. Astarion clearly dislikes the idea of possible intimacy with an illithid, but he can't immediately fall out of love with Tav, no matter which path you choose. The illithid can sense the love hormone from the Ascended Astarion (if Tav remains his ally in the epilogue, Tav-illithid will sense the love hormone and learn that Astarion loves them). If you choose the line “Yes, I can work below the surface - you can work above” in the dialogue with AA, Astarion will be delighted and say that you can rule the world together. But since Tav is an illithid, you won't be able to achieve physical intimacy. It's the same as with UA's offer of friendship. Only on UA's path, Astarion is more uncertain about their future together: “Perhaps we'll adjust, perhaps we won't, but you mean too much for me to walk away.” It sounds like when a person no longer wants to continue a relationship, doesn't want such a relationship, but isn't ready to let go yet. When feelings are still too strong, forcing them to cling to a straw, but they no longer want to be with this partner, they may not fully realize it, but “Perhaps we'll adjust, perhaps we won't” can only end with “we won't.”

“And I hope we can find some place for love in our new... whatever this is.” Astarion doesn't directly say what it is, it's “our new” and he can't find a suitable gentle word, so he pauses: “whatever this is.”

“But even if we can’t, I’ll never forget the person you were.” – It seems that Astarion already acknowledges that “we can’t,” but softens it with “but even if.” And “I'll never forget the person you were.” - The same as with AA: “I'll never forget the person you used to be - the beauty I bedded, the warrior I fought beside, the hero that saved this city.”

AA also offers friendship (or rather, platonic love, since at the party he also calls Tav-illithid “my love,” and his hormones indicate that he feels love), but here Astarion shows a clear desire to continue the relationship as it is, without “perhaps we won't” and “but even if we can't.” It feels like either on the UA path, Astarion perceives the illithid more as a threat, or he is already feeling bad, and now there is the illithid on top of that... Or on the AA path, Astarion loves Tav more, and his feelings are stronger (the love hormone is still secreted, despite the impossibility of an intimate relationship with the illithid), and he definitely wants to stay together. Yes, he speaks more honestly and harshly at times, but who decided to become an illithid in the end? It was entirely voluntary, of their own free will. It would be interesting to see Astarion's reaction if the ceremorphosis with Tav had happened as a tragedy, without their consent. I think Astarion would be sympathetic and suffer because of it either way, but in the game there is only voluntary foolish altruism (and selfishness towards the beloved; feeling like a hero who sacrificed themselves is more important to Tav-illithid than the feelings of the person they love most). And here—on the UA path Astarion, torn between the desire to break up and the unwillingness to let go right now, on the path of AA—Astarion continues to love, but for understandable reasons is only ready for a platonic relationship (which he honestly admits).

“Astarion isn’t jealous — we know this, because not only is he open to polyamorous relationships when it suits him, but he doesn’t say yes to everyone. He makes distinctions, he has preferences, and he expresses them — Tav/Durge just has to deal with it: Gale no, Shadowheart no, Lae’zel no, Halsin yes. The point with Mizora is the betrayal. The lack of communication. The fact that it wasn’t discussed, that there wasn’t transparency, that he wasn’t given a voice.”

IT “suits” him:

"But when you meet his eye for a moment, there's a look about him that reveals he's a million realms away."

DISSOCIATION. “there’s a look about him that reveals be’s a million realms away”.

“Dissociation is a mental process that severs connections among a person’s thoughts, memories, feelings, actions, and/or sense of identity. Dissociation can also occur during severe stress or trauma as a protective element whereby the individual incurs distortion of time, space, or identity. This is a common symptom in traumatic stress reactions.

Dissociation helps distance the experience from the individual. People who have experienced severe or developmental trauma may have learned to separate themselves from distress to survive.

Potential Signs of Dissociation

Fixed or “glazed” eyes (“there’s a look about him that reveals he's a million realms away”.)

Stereotyped movements (“Astarion lavishes attentions on everyone present with flawless technique, unfazed. It's all pure instinct. But when you meet his eye for a moment, there's a look about him that reveals”). – Unfortunately, this “flawless technique” can easily be considered “stereotyped movements” for him.

“A significant part of Astarion’s defense mechanism is dissociation, the ability to separate himself from the terrible things that have happened to him—or that he has done.” © Michanvalentine. Here:

💬 5 🔁 18 ❤️ 103 · I was asked if I had any thoughts on Astarion's character development in terms of taking responsibility and making choic

I think that information from psychology about PTSD should be applied in all cases, not just when it suits the “narrative,” but that's just my opinion. This is the only time he agrees to an orgy. I don't know if an orgy in a brothel can be called a “polyamorous relationship”; I'm not an expert on that. Without the brothel, Astarion himself does not sleep with Halsin, but only lets Tav go. Preferences? Hardly, although I have read a rather logical opinion that Astarion allows this relationship with Halsin for Tav's sake because he does not consider Halsin to be something long-term. Maybe that's the difference. And yes, in the case of Halsin, Tav tells Astarion that they are going to cheat with Halsin, but in the case of Mizora, they do not inform him. Perhaps Astarion was also hurt by the lie—the fact that Tav is doing something behind their back (and if they are cheating behind his back, then they could do anything else).

As for “Gale no, Shadowheart no, Lae'zel no, Halsin yes” — this is just the structure of the game, as it is written. None of the main companions are going to get involved in a love triangle with each other for good — Tav can start a relationship with two of them, but then they will have to choose one of them. Only when Halsin appears in the game is it possible to have polyamorous relationships until the end of the game. And only with Astarion and Shadowheart. Gale and Lae'zel themselves will not enter into polyamorous relationships. In BG3, there is no option for one to agree and the other to refuse—both companions refuse in Act 1, and everyone refuses Halsin except Shadowheart, who wants it, judging by her banter, and Astarion allows Halsin and Tav's relationship. Shadowheart, who, in theory, could agree to polyamory with Astarion, since she agrees with Halsin, nevertheless sees and understands Astarion very well: “You overestimate Astarion's willingness to share, he may seem like the carefree hedonist, but there's something fragile beneath the facade.” By the way, Shadowheart is the only attentive and observant companion (when it comes to romantic relationships). She is the only one who notices the existence of our relationship with Astarion at the party in Act 1 (she has a line about it).

My opinion about the scene with Mizora:

💬 2 🔁 4 ❤️ 20 · A comparative analysis of Astarion's reactions to cheating with Mizora on both routes. · The scene after the Ascension: S

“Otherwise, the persuasion roll wouldn’t exist — hell, the entire post-betrayal scene wouldn’t exist, if Astarion truly “swallowed any abuse silently,” as some claim.”

You can play through this scene (while maintaining the relationship) using Deception, and without rolling the dice at all. Choose the lines “Jealous?” “Don't be like that — it didn't mean anything.” “I'm sorry, I truly am.” — and the romance is saved. That is, Tav just needs to say that it was nonsense that meant nothing, and after hearing Astarion's response, apologize. They don't even have to promise not to do it again. Astarion will just say, “All right, we'll put this behind us. Just let's not do it again, hmm?” Of course, I'm glad that if the persuasion check fails or there's an extremely nasty line, like, “You're one to talk, after how you've treated people,” (the answer will be the same) Astarion opens his eyes to this partner and leaves them, but I personally (and none of the AA fans) did not write that he “swallowed any abuse silently.” I gave specific examples with quotes when Astarion accepts abusive behavior from Tav. There are different situations and, again, different degrees of acceptance of bad treatment. Cheating is not abuse, cheating is cheating (there is a line for the abuser in this scene: “You're one to talk, after how you've treated people,” then Astarion breaks off the relationship). A person with trauma may not notice or consider emotional abuse towards them to be such, as in the line: “Then don't mess it up” (especially since Astarion didn't know anything else, he doesn't even remember what true love should look like: “Love? I don't remember love.") He may not consider neglect towards him and his needs (no one ever cared about Astarion) to be unacceptable, which happens on the UA path. But it is impossible not to recognize cheating.

Overall, I find it a bit strange to claim that the scene after fucking Mizora “encapsulates” the entire UA's journey". It somehow greatly diminishes the whole meaning of this journey. And it would be strange from the developers' point of view to cram some super-important meaning into the game in such a way that in order to see this “meaning,” the player would have to fuck some NPC. Yes, of course, this scene is part of each companion's story, and each companion has their own reaction to cheating with Mizora, since there is sex with Mizora. And they all differ in one way or another — with Karlach, the PC can also maintain the relationship, break up, or even permanently exclude Karlach from the group after that. Gale will break up in any case. Lae'zel also breaks up. Shadowheart is not happy about cheating with Mizora, but she masks her feelings with a facade of acceptance rooted in her traumatic Sharran training. While she says it's “fine” and asks you not to forget her, her passive-aggressive comments and lines like “if I wanted something pure and loyal... I'd find a swan” reveal her hurt and insecurity. On the AA path, you can also get a dialogue in which you can see Astarion's trauma (for this, Tav must start talking about how they felt during sex with Mizora, line: “I'm honestly not sure. Good in the moment, but afterwards...”). UA's path reveals Astarion's attempts to put on a “mask of acceptance”: “And if anyone should believe in forgiving and forgetting, I should,” even though his feelings tell him he shouldn't: “I... I don't know if I should believe you, but I do.” With Wyll, everything is clear; it couldn't be any other way. Halsin also could not have reacted any other way than to preserve the relationship, saying he is proud of them for being able to explore more of their desires without him. Romance with Minthara will end because of cheating. We can see that for characters with sexual trauma in their past, this trauma affects their reaction to cheating (Astarion, Shadowheart). It is logical that after the Ascension, Astarion will not break off the relationship because of this, and on the UA path, the opportunity for Astarion to open his eyes to his partner (which again only happens in the case of a frankly nasty line or a failed dice roll) is also due to the contrast between what Tav preached to him and what Tav does. On the AA path, Tav did not preach anything that would create such a contrast and reveal hypocrisy. Usually, all preachers are caught in their deeds. The fact that the developers took into account the difference in relationships with Astarion on both paths is good and realistic, but the idea that they couldn't show the true meaning of why you have to fail your beloved character's main quest choose “good” and some kind of ‘morality’ instead of the happiness of your loved one, in the main scenes, and made the possibility of a breakup after sex with Mizora “encapsulate” the entire UA's journey", well, I don't know, hardly. Then it would be a rather strange writing. This scene may say something additional about each of the companions, but no one in it has the “main meaning” of their path.

“Exactly the kind of selfishness people love to criticize in so-called “fixers,” who get what they want at the expense of Astarion’s happiness and agency.”

Heh, but isn't it the fixers who want Astarion to change? To “try to be better”? At the cost of depriving him of the opportunity to live a full life. And he really has no agency in the ritual scene. He just doesn't.

Astarion on the UA path, if the PC decides to take control of the Brain, is also perfectly logical. The player did not help Astarion, fed him “moral nonsense,” did not allow him to gain the power of the ritual, and chose this themselves.

“He’s standing his ground — emotionally and ideologically. He protests, passionately and sincerely, even compared to his ascended counterpart, who approves of and revels in the carnage.”

What ideology, what protest? Astarion definitely understands that he doesn't have long to live. Who in his place wouldn't understand that? All that's left to do is laugh: “Ahahaha. Maybe this is what I deserve for all my sins: a front-row seat to the end of the world...” That's it. There is nothing that can be done, it is all over, there is no “ground” to stand on. All that remains is to laugh. And, of course, at first he is in shock - betrayal, anger, and bitterness, of course. But he cannot help but understand that he will now become a victim, like everyone else. If DU helped Astarion Ascend, then he still naively loves them, believing that they will rule together, and supports his beloved, trusts them (the ending for DU in the romance is awful) — in the case of Tav, yes, the same thing, but there really is a possibility for a shared future. It's logical—if your beloved (or ally) helps you gain power, get what you need, and then takes another power for themselves—yes, you can continue to be allies. Betrayal may happen, but it is not necessary; it seems that you can “revel in the carnage” together. But if this person told you about the “traps of power” or about who “can be proud” of what, and then takes much more terrible and destructive power, then that's it—you're dead. A priori, this cannot be misunderstood. This Tav/DU who becomes the Absolute, but before that does not help Astarion Ascend—this person will destroy or enslave everyone, a priori, they will not tolerate “competitors,” they do not need any alliance. It can only be such a person, it would be strange if Astarion did not understand this.

Vellioth's memoirs are really interesting—you can see how Astarion doesn't follow any of Vellioth's rules after the Ascension. For example, "Vellioth's second lesson is that power comes from solitude. To share with others is to be weak, and to be weak is to fail ... and die.“ Astarion immediately shares his power and immortality with his consort, and they also win because they are together and work toward a common goal—Astarion's revenge and victory. Astarion knows this: ”I did. We did." He always says “we.” Just as Astarion does not follow any of Casador's “rules,” of course. It can also be noted that Casador's rules and Vellioth's rules are completely different things.

The conversation between the Unascended Astarion and God Gale is, of course, very interesting. Astarion perfectly maintains his dignity in front of this arrogant asshole (Gale even suggests praying to him?). God, it looks like you're at a class reunion and you meet someone who (as you thought) was dumber than you, didn't have as high grades as you, and so on, but now they're the owner of a large business/have a high position thanks to connections, whatever, in short, a “god” level, and they arrived in an expensive car... And you once showed such promise, but then you took an arrow in the knee... Of course, no one is going to give this former classmate a reason to rejoice in the form of envy and will politely be happy for them. And, naturally, your self-respect won't allow you to accept handouts from this person, regardless of whether you need them or not. The only thing I don't understand in this dialogue is someone's Origin? Gale's Origin? (In the game with Tav/DU, there is no dialogue between companions at the party).

“We could have tried. We could have given them the same chance I had. I’ve been able to go out into the world and make better choices, to go against my nature and become more than a bloodsucking monster. Maybe they would have done the same.” – Oh my God, how awful... Directly “to go against my nature.” In this version, with this line, it's simply the worst story in all the RPGs I've ever played, to be honest. It's good that there is a choice, otherwise the game really wouldn't make sense. Again, we must not forget that Astarion is very cautious; he knows how to assess the dangers of the world around him. And this Tav, who killed the spawns—the “bloodsucking monsters”—that is, who prevented Astarion from Ascending not out of sympathy for them, is dangerous to Astarion if he considers Astarion to be “just like them.” Of course, Astarion should convince this crazy paladin that he was able to “go against my nature,” that he is not like that, so as not to paint a “target on his back.” If Astarion is so unlucky in this version of the world that he is in a relationship with this Tav, then he tries to wear the mask that is required even more strongly. And he surely thinks about what will happen if he reveals his vampire nature.

And so, without all this “corrective” crap, is Astarion just “a mere bloodsucking monster”?

“He’s a vampire who has fought against his nature and reclaimed the "human" (elf?) part of himself—the one that was stolen away—and who is now learning to make better choices.”

Where? That's a direct lie—Astarion didn't get back anything that was stolen from him. Why the hell should he “fight against his nature”? He was a vampire and is still a vampire, only after the Ascension does he become a living vampire, and indeed, he gets back everything that was stolen from him. “Learning to make better choices” — to be honest, I don't want to offend anyone, but it sounds like what fraud usually sounds like in reality — everything that some “hot air” offers (words, ideas invented by someone, ideals, any blah-blah-blah) and you are offered to give something real for this “blah-blah-blah.” Religious preachers have been trying to “teach how to make better choices” for centuries. For them, because the church needs followers. Fraudsters who offer people to “clean their chakras” or treat them with some other nonsense, anything, instead of going to a real clinic, also repeat a lot of “beautiful” and virtually non-existent things. What cannot be accurately “weighed,” cannot be refuted, and cannot be proven, simply because it is impossible to understand something that does not exist, that is fictional, that exists only as an idea, will never be on the same level as real physical facts and phenomena.

“Below is the screenshot of what he says to a Tav/Durge with whom he shares a friendly relationship — plain and clear: he’s no longer willing to be defined by anyone else’s choices. Period. Straight from his own vivid lips again. He’s the one choosing, now and forever. So much for being “controlled” by a romantic partner!”

Well, yes, Astarion's choices were already determined by others (and during the ritual as well, he had to choose between “being persuaded” or leaving the group), but from now on he will act only on his own. What is the correlation between lines in friendly relationships and relationships with romantic partners? Gale, who is not in a romantic relationship, does not even have a dialogue about whether or not to take the crown of Karsus. Gale, without a romance, can make the choice himself and say in the epilogue that he will return the crown to Mystra, and you will not even have a line to offer him to take the crown for himself (depending on your communication with him throughout the game, but nevertheless).

The channel recommended by the author of the post is known for its fakes on the Ascension route. A high-quality refutation of the fakes can be found here:

💬 16 🔁 10 ❤️ 60 · I spotted something. Here The same devnote for mortal and immortal Tav on AA tag even lol okey. Interesting. Oxford L

I can say that the author of the quoted post undoubtedly demonstrates a brilliant knowledge of the material (quotes and scenes), which makes you see (and find in the game) some moments that can easily escape the player's gaze if they don't test the game in its entirety. The author also brilliantly refutes the extreme and simplified caricature of Astarion on the UA path as a “spineless, clingy weakling,” “doormat,” etc., which they themselves created. Even the offensive words were invented by them for the sake of this caricature. Not a single quote or reference to “critics” who “simplify” Astarion in this way is provided. The goal is to simplify and caricature the position of those who criticize the UA path (the path itself and the idea behind it), reducing it to a few absurd statements. The statements are invented by the author and brilliantly refuted by them. As one of these critics, I completely agree that Astarion is a strong personality on any path, including the UA path, and I am glad that he can leave Tav after cheating with Mizora. But the path itself — the overall situation, when Astarion is put in a position where "Astarion's fate is sealed. He will be a vampire spawn for the rest of his days.“ - this path, by its very nature, leaves him in the position of a victim for the ”world," a world that hates vampires. And Astarion must also “go against his nature” to make something better for this shitty world, “make better choices” for whom? For what? Evidence of strength of character does not negate this narrative and existential vulnerability. And it also does not negate the fact that no one will now give him back what was taken from him. You can make a “straw man” out of your opponents, please. The main thing is that in the game of these opponents, Astarion will always feel much better. He will feel better, specifically him. Not “what kind of person he becomes,” what behavior someone likes/dislikes. I like his true behavior, when no one can “fix him” and he won't “get better” for anyone. When things are better for him, not for someone else. When his “desire to be utterly and free for unshackled by other people's opinions of it” (Neil about Astarion) is satisfied, and he says to the mirror: “Hello again. Gods, I missed you.”

Previous posts on this topic:

The right to "live a full life," "the freedom to do anything" versus "radiant hoax." Part 1.

The right to “live a full life,” “the freedom to do anything” versus “radiant hoax.” Part 2.

The right to "live a full life," "the freedom to do anything" versus "radiant hoax." Part 3.

The right to "live a full life," "the freedom to do anything" versus "radiant hoax." Part 4.