✨RWBY 9✨

{any pronouns} mostly my RWBY cave + other fandoms

[astralwukong]

RWBY HAS ME IN SHAMBLES 🖤

"Stay strong user, we'll make it through this hiatus together! 😭"

NOT SPOILER FREE

Spoilers tags 🚨 -> #rwby spoilers #rwby9

My account is safe from explicit/graphical material but for "borderline" things, nudity, jokes/innuendos and/or "implied" content please filter #nsfw and #implied nsfw 🧍

Triggers format 🤲 -> #tw[space][topic] idk, for example, #tw gore

i don't use them often anymore but:

Additional filters 💔 -> #discourse #vent #drama

NEW

• spoiler tags for rwby x jl movies (depending on which one comes up to my mind first so block all):

# rwby jl # rwby justice league # rwby justice league spoilers # rwby/jl spoilers

[astralwukong]

Do you guys think Viz plans a remake of RWBY?

[yangfanbb]

Naa no way they are still trying to wait out the WB contact to end in some locations from what I have been told. I doubt they want to start the story all over again.

[astralwukong]

ooooh i see, i thought wb was already fully out of the picture. this gives me hope tbh

[astralwukong]

imo V3 was the best time to be around as a RWBY fan. the joy of seeing the series not stop after Monty passed, RT going strong and producing so much rwby side content, the absolute shock and excitement that the final episodes of the volume brought, more and more people getting in, so many unanswered questions bringing so many discussions theories and hype, not knowing what the main team would do from there, so many possibilities. I do think that despite everything that might have been the best time to be in the fandom.

[astralwukong]

Do you guys think Viz plans a remake of RWBY?

[haibarashiho]

This is legendary

[yangscowlick]

[dae-stuff]

[astralwukong]

is it just me or B slaps cause

[stelmarias]

for @twelveclara​

[astralwukong]

when i remember person of interest exists.

[astralwukong]

this was so burning the candle coded of them....

[astralwukong]

sometimes i think with how people still say blcksn wasn't cut off the right way and what not, maybe the best thing to write it off at the beginning of V6 would have been for sun to attempt a kiss and getting gently rejected with a clear explaination as to why between the two of them. crude as heck, sure, even a little out of character for sun at that point of the story, but maybe it would have put the little romantic arc to a definitive rest and wouldn't leave people wondering. What do you think?

--------

Edit: sorry, i probably should have given more info about what i was going for here lol

First premise: idc about blcksun shippers complaints (they are shippers, they were gonna complain anyways, naturally). i am talking about the fact that no average viewer ever got to know for sure what kind of feelings were involved between blake and sun and whether there was still a chance between them after that goodbye (that's because unlike bees no one ever said i love/like you to each other nor they have ever discussed what they are). i didn't like the send off from that perspective, personally, because as with many other things in rwby, things aren't stated properly and that's a general complaint i have.

Secondly of course, as i've said, thats out of character of sun and clashed with the little "development" he got in those 3 seasons. My question is mostly a what-if scenario focusing on viewer perception of a potential almost-blcksn-kiss + rejection in that particular part of the show, but it could have played out in any other scene at the begining of V6 or end of V5.

The real question i was going for, i guess, is this:

would an almost kiss + rejection (whatever way you wish for it to happen) have helped the average viewer understand what went down between blake and sun since V1 and properly motivate why the ship isn't going to happen in the future?

[astralwukong]

[astralwukong]

fellow bees shippers i have a question. what is your own criticism to the ship? like, things you didn't like or you would have done different or added or removed ecc. including the interplay with blcksn and/or adam, not just blake and yang's relationship alone.

[tumblingxelian]

If I had to pick something it'd probably be giving hem lil V1 arc, like when Velvet's been bullied, Blake slinks off to try and comfort her but isn't very good at it.

There's some political discourse, & Yang arrives to help with the feels.

There's insinuations that she suspects Blake's nature as a Faunus but is leaving that in Blake's court and culminates in them establishing a rapport with Velvet.

Otherwise, I'd either remove Sun or downplay his presence in V4 so Blake's conversation with Ghira doesn't get interrupted or she can have a chat with Kali like from the comics. I actually like his role as a red herring romantic rival, but am unsure he's strictly necessary.

[astralwukong]

Few thoughts on this. I absolutely agree that bees required a V1 arc, not even to push the romance but in general to push the dynamic overall right off the bat. Do i think the racism plot should have something to do with it? Hmm i don't know. I fear it would have made Yang pass as a white saviour if not done right, i generally think they should have cut the whole racism thing from the faunus plot and re-imagine the WhiteFang as another type of organization. From this pov we could have had a mini-arc about them focusing on Blake's abusive past with Adam and the fear of trusting team RWBY and her new partner. I think we can easily re-write V1 to accomodate this small but massively impactful change, but i guess we're talking about a different show at that point.

I say it in spite of my love for Sun, but if we're gonna have a character that is so empty even after 5 seasons of his continous presence in the show...might as well not have him at all. To me this is just so...frustrating. If only he would have his own arc, his small romance with Blake and subsequent "break up" would be so much more tollerable. Since all he is to the show is a shadow of Blake, for apparently no reason other than his crush on her, obviously, people are gonna think he's bound to get with her. To me his V1 scenes should be re-written to accomodate a bumbleby mini-arc and he should be introduced (mutual crush on blake or not) only in V2. His presence in V4 is completely useless and his role could have easily been passed to Kali and Ghira (i also don't like how Blake is apparently "princess" of menagerie but that's another story). He could pop up in V5 with some excuse and accompany Blake's fight against the WF and generally keep his supportive role, but in V4 his presence only takes away from Blake's relationship with her parents for him and Blake to argue ALL the time, and its a shame.

So yeah full on agree, maybe i'd be best to cut him overall if you're not gonna give him his own tasks and depth. He's fun and chill and a loveable character but he's like a curriculum with only soft skills on it....

[astralwukong]

fellow bees shippers i have a question. what is your own criticism to the ship? like, things you didn't like or you would have done different or added or removed ecc. including the interplay with blcksn and/or adam, not just blake and yang's relationship alone.

[anthurak]

I feel like we're kind of 'missing' a Blake and Yang focused episode/arc in Volume 1 where they really lock-in/establish their dynamic as partners. Essentially something equivalent to what Ruby and Weiss got in The Badge and the Burden.

Obviously, this wouldn't necessarily need to take the form of some conflict or overt friction between Blake and Yang like what happened with Ruby and Weiss, rather I think all we'd need is some proper focus on Blake and Yang together for an episode. Like on rewatch, it is rather noticeable that after Blake and Yang become partners, we don't actually GET proper focus on their dynamic until Burning the Candle in Volume 2. Again, it feels like we're kinda missing a Blake-and-Yang equivalent to what The Badge and the Burden did for Ruby and Weiss.

Incidentally, I think such a plot would have made much better use of episodes 13 and 14 of V1 compared to what we got. Like especially in hindsight, Jaune's focus in V1 really should have concluded with his talk with Pyrrha on the dorm roof where he admits to forging his entrance papers and Pyrrha offers to train him.

On Sun's side of things, looking back I think Blake having any kind of actual crush on Sun and/or actually entertaining any kind of relationship with him feels kind of unnecessary. Like, Sun having a crush on Blake? That works just fine, and plays very nicely into his character arc post-V3 of moving past that crush and seeing Blake as a friend.

But Blake having any real feelings for Sun when Bumbleby was endgame from the beginning feels a bit superfluous, especially when any focus on that could have been spent on providing more focus/setup for Blake and Yang. Say, showing Blake feeling conflicted and second-guessing any growing feelings she has for Yang after what happened with Adam, which in turn would provide even better setup to Blake's and Yang's encounter with Adam during Volume 3.

[chaoticevilspacewitch]

I agree with everything @anthurak said. The time Jaune got early on would've been much better spent giving us a few moments of friendship building between Yang and Blake to set up more context for the Burning the Candle scene and Adam's attack.

Would've loved to see their whole dance together! Maybe they start off with a fun, faster dance, but the next one is a slow dance and they kind of look at each other nervously, clearly thinking about it, almost reaching for each other, before Sun barges in.

I also really wish we'd gotten something in V5 or 6... sometime before confronting Adam... where they actually talked about Blake running away. Yes, there's plenty of context for establishing that Yang figured it out and forgave her, but it would still be a nice, and important, conversation to see. It could even set up the Adam fight by having Yang still be hurt and angry, saying something like "I'm glad your back... for now. But how do I know you won't leave again?" Make her dramatic entrance into the fight an even bolder declaration.

[crybabysatan]

I pretty much agree with all of this. I’ve been a fan since the day the red trailer dropped. I’ve always been so sick of Adam stans having a valid point about the slow burn being *really* slow in vol 1. Because yeah there is a lack of real buildup until vol 2 and it does in fact suck yes.

I think having read the comics makes me even saltier about the lack of vol 1-2 bee crumbs. This is mainly because, if you’re a rwby fan that was on YouTube in 2013, you know that the show was already pushing it by existing. People were still using “women can’t fight” jokes unironically. We hadn’t quite yet reached the okay stage, gays and women were still getting punished pretty outwardly(he says, cringing at the fact that it’s only gotten worse) in spaces like YouTube. I get why. I just look back and miss the things we could have had.

I think some of the later/younger fans might not see this perspective often, especially since legacy fans seem to be rare in the FNDM(if I’m wrong please find me I’m so tired of having to expose new people to the red trailer😭). Now, I’m also not chronically online like I used to be because real life unfortunately demands more of my short attention span than I want it to, so I could be totally off base with these assumptions, and I swear I’m not trying to be a hipster or an elitist of any kind when I reference legacy fans. I just think there is a pretty big difference between the “millennial skinny jeans and pewdiepie” era of YouTube and the “professional polished corporate turd” era of YouTube now. And while the treatment of the aforementioned people hasn’t gotten much better, more people actually look for and are making that content now(so capitalism has no choice but to include it anymore).

All this to say that god I wished Monty would have gotten what he probably wanted to do, but he also built the story that he did within certain social limitations at the time. Which makes sense since he definitely was not quiet about his support of people from every walk of life outside of the show’s voice. (This is not to imply the lack of racial diversity in the show isn’t still an issue🫡)

The good out of this though???

The slow burn left every single one of us touch starved gays hanging for nine whole volumes for payoff, so he definitely got what he wanted there and for that, I have to give the man so many standing ovations.

Tl;Dr I absolutely believe we should have at least gotten the scenes from the comics animated into vol 1, I know they probably weren’t even made until later, but I’m still salty. I also remember what 2013 YouTube was like and it makes entirely too much sense why we didn’t get more early bee set up when you think about it.

[chaoticevilspacewitch]

Those are some really great points about how revolutionary the show was, just by existing and treating its heroines seriously. I mean it still is, but women warriors are getting a bit more acceptable these days.

I still think the show could benefit amazingly from a remake of the early volumes that brought some polish to the storytelling and incorporated material that developed later on, while patching holes and addressing criticisms.

On a final note, while I completely agree that the show lacked racial diversity and really appreciate how they've tried to fix it (but still, a remake could give us a darker toned Blake with a clearer global south origin), I do find it interesting how Monty often saw the characters much of the audience reads as white as Asian. I know at least that Ruby, Yang, and Cinder were all supposed to be seen as Asian. And a lot of that truly was the limits of the original Poser software, I think.

[astralwukong]

Unpopular opinion i guess....we all skimmed over RWBY IQ because of its other problems, but if we're talking Bumbleby only, i think RWBY IQ represented V1 bees better than V1 itself...like fr. What do you think?

[astralwukong]

fellow bumbleby shippers i have a question. what is your own criticism to the ship? like, things you didn't like or you would have done different or added or removed ecc. including the interplay with blcksn and/or adam, not just blake and yang's relationship alone.

[novandor]

I personally would’ve liked to see more of Beacon Bees relationship a la school and hanging out and stuff. Why didn’t Blake know Yang’s semblance for a while? Also maybe see Blake help Yang with school or smth. Showing Blake trying to keep her past away from her loved ones and Yang trying to find a direction? Just showing those things as well as telling. As for blacksun showing a second time her prioritizing Yang over Sun could help setup what happens later.

Maybe also a bs convo about her having hurt Yang and facing the fear of her reaction to returning. That and a talk after the Apathy fight with both explaining their feelings would maybe help things flow somewhat better though V6 is pretty good as is.

[astralwukong]

excellent points. one of the major holes in their narrative imo is the lack of a solid face to face conversation about blake leaving. blake feeling bad about it for all of V4 and yang talking to weiss about it simply isn't enough to provide closure, they had to discuss it face to face and i will always stand by that.

I've always been less concerned with bees starting the romance late but few more moments in V1-V3, even just platonic, would have definitely given a strong boost to the bees side of the V3 finale.

[novandor]

Hm I’ve thought about this A LOT over the year or so since I’ve watched RWBY and I don’t think it’s a hole as much of a weaker point that could have been made stronger with an addition.

Yang knows it was a misguided attempt to protect her and others because Blake thought being around her would put them in danger from Weiss. After this she’s not mad, just sad. Yang finds out that she realized she was misguided and returned (also to fight Adam) at end of V5.

Yang communicates that she understands what happened and doesn’t need to apologize for it but she needs time to get used to her being back in V6C1 (All That Matters expands she’s afraid Blake’ll leave again). Over the course of V6 she sees that Blake is trying to be there for her via empathy, physically being there in and out of combat, comfort, and listening to her. Blake also (indirectly) acknowledges that her misguided actions hurt Yang both by trying to make up for them and promising that she’ll stay indefinitely.

Nothing more fundamentally needs to happen for it to be resolved but my point was imo it would narratively feel more smooth if they got to talk about their feelings and what happened over the last few volumes after Apathy fight but before Adam fight.

[astralwukong]

that's fair and yeah i partially agree. the apathy episode should have unlocked something more, absolutely. not a confession imo but something...tender? that would eased them into romance.

nonetheless to me this missing moment (yang and blake talking about V3 aftermath) weights heavily on their development, mostly because it plays into this sometimes weird approach that rwby writers have had to character dynamics, were things don't always get talked through, just nodded to. bees are the most developed dynamic of the show and this means that they're also the biggest victims of this way of writing. another good example is the fight with adam 2. they kill a man and neither of them feels like breaking down about it eventually? despite how bad adam is and how much his disappearence must have been a relief to blake particularely. im not saying she should be crying about it because trauma response is different for everyone, but i was definitely expecting more talk from them than just "we did what we had to do". on this one i may be alone so maybe its just me, but as for the blake leaving conversation i still think it was so much more important and should have been given its space. also because talking about blake leaving would have also opened to the adam conversation and given yang on-screen closure on the 5 Ws that she has had for entire volumes (V4-V5), so its like, an overally very needed and awaited moment (every newbie watching expects it for a reason).

i feel like the writers all too often chose to leave things unsaid or only mentioned instead of the good old long conversations that i liked so much about rwby. to me obviously something must have changed since V7 because rwby became extremely "plot-based" in that the characters no longer drag the plot, its the plot that moves the characters, leaving no space for casual conversation lasting longer than a minute. All the characters talk about since V7 is plot-related things, and rarely something else. This is my overall criticism to later rwby, but its so much more prominent when we talk about bees. Some people say they feel underdeveloped, i fear this has to do with the lack of propention by RT to investigate in depth their "falling in love arc" V6-V9 and as usual they compensated with blushes and flirting to get the point across....I'm afraid that doesn't work very well with bees though. It's not early-blcksn, a souless ship (sorry blcksn) that only needed flirting and sun trying hard to be considered realistic, bees are held to a much higher standard, not just by the haters but by the fans too. In this sense i think bees deserved so much more from V7-V8, but its clear that plot and budget are to blame for the lack of effort in that direction.

Like idk to me its crazy that in V8 blake and yang had two whole important moments (not a lot) and they didn't conversate once in between them. i'll say it again casual blushing and silent flirting can't be pretty much the only thing happening between them in the two volumes leading to a confession....as much as i loved these moments.....

Sorry i got off topic but i really think this exposes my general problem with late-RWBY's style of writing. the change in management to Viz Media (only kerry is still involved afaik) can certainly give new life to the writing...or ruin it for good 😅

[novandor]

No worries whatsoever! I absolutely love discussions like these and I find it interesting to see different people’s takes on this.

My main difference of opinion is that its okay as it is, as every small moment seems to do a lot. However I do absolutely agree with the criticism that the writers leave stuff unsaid. This is one of my major issues with the series as it is as we the audience don’t know how much information the characters know or how they feel about it and must infer what conversations must have happened from observing how characters react. We especially see this in the untouched on moments that must have happened the in between of volumes.

I don’t think the bees are underdeveloped either but I also agree with you how I can see people come to that conclusion. Imo the V7 stuff has a special place in my heart cause each moment tells us more about a. where they stand now with each other b. How they navigate conflicting points of view c. How they’re moving forward together and d. Their relationship outside of stressful moments

Nonetheless I do for the most part agree: They deserved more in all volumes (especially V6-V9) and I would’ve loved to see a conversation about their relationship and experiences in V8.

I can only hope with downtime, a new relationship and Raven’s return we get longer conversations and reflections about their relationship in the hopefully forthcoming V10.

[astralwukong]

Sorry for the late reply but yeah i see we came to pretty much the same conclusions.

Bees are such a good ship, genuinely, the text and subtext/symbolism around them is literally perfect and has so much potential. I guess its just frustrating when budget and/or writing style gets in between and breaks the linearity of their story 🙃