She/her, bi, American, 30s; this blog is created as a place for me to dump all of my black butler hyperfixation, mainly story and character analysis. Currently read through chapter 99 (at the end of the green witch arc).
This is not a sebaciel blog (i.e., I don't thirst for this ship; I'm not physically attracted to Ciel or his sexualization), but it's not antiship either. I support anyone in how they perceive the source material because it's fictional.
A friendly reminder that the views expressed here are personal and subjective (as they are for all of us). As such, the views expressed here are not intended to be implied as superior or more accurate/correct to anyone else's. The meaning of a piece of media is in the eye of the beholder; we all get something different out of it and that's okay.
CW for this blog: topics will include CSA, trauma, violence, pedophilia, shotacon/lolicon (this is not pedophilia because it's fictional), sex/sexuality, overall themes of morality versus immorality. If any of this makes you uncomfortable, please block this blog.
Welcome to my humble abode where all the crazy hyperfixation goes. A quick glimpse at what I plan to dump here:
Analysis of story themes, plot, characters, and symbolism
Chapter by chapter analysis (from time to time... probably won't always be consistent, especially as I catch up on everything)
Anime versus manga comparisons
Reblogging of other blogs' metas and/or ideas as well as expanding on them at times
All of these will be done randomly when the muses move me (also I am full-grown, seasoned adult with many responsibilities and interests and very little time). This isn't really meant to be taken super seriously, but of course it will cover very heavy and controversial topics.
Just a heads up, I don't ship 13 yo Ciel and Sebastian, it gives me the ick because of the age thing (future Ciel and Sebastian I'm cool with, because it's fiction and we can do that). However, let's be real and recognize that this story and it's artwork does possess shotacon and BL themes and that they are a part of the story. The presence of this content will be analyzed through the lens of the story narration and structure, and how it ties in with its various heavy topics. It will likely have some innate biases in it because I'm American and not Japanese, so I'm experiencing this through a Western lens; however, I am doing my best to learn more and gain a better understanding of the history and culture that this fiction is born within.
Overall, I'm here for the critical analyses, no matter how uncomfortable, and for the discussions, no matter how differing. Thanks for checking out my blog!
Something that absolutely cracks me up in the Green Witch arc is THIS scene:
Because the ENTIRE TIME this is happening Ciel is FREAKING OUT and keeps saying "WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?" AND "I DON'T UNDERSTAND!" and at first, because all the dialogue is in English, I was thinking, "oh, silly Ciel and his silly innocence..." BUT THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL. Sullivan and Sebastian are speaking German to each other this entire time! So poor Ciel is stuck in this room with both of them talking back and forth in German while this strange girl LAYS on his bed, GROPES him...
OMG, poor guy. 🤣
And Sebastian is just like "Yeah, this is fucking hilarious. Let's add some kindling to the fire..."
Something that absolutely cracks me up in the Green Witch arc is THIS scene:
Because the ENTIRE TIME this is happening Ciel is FREAKING OUT and keeps saying "WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?" AND "I DON'T UNDERSTAND!" and at first, because all the dialogue is in English, I was thinking, "oh, silly Ciel and his silly innocence..." BUT THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL. Sullivan and Sebastian are speaking German to each other this entire time! So poor Ciel is stuck in this room with both of them talking back and forth in German while this strange girl LAYS on his bed, GROPES him...
OMG, poor guy. 🤣
And Sebastian is just like "Yeah, this is fucking hilarious. Let's add some kindling to the fire..."
I finished reading the Green Witch arc a few weeks ago, and my mind has been mulling over it ever since. I absolutely loved it, so many different things I want to talk about! Today, however, I will focus on only ONE thing, because, well, it's a big one and I write too much for my own good.
What is it, you may ask? Well, it is the dichotomy shown between Sullivan and Ciel when it comes to sex/sexuality.
Sex stuff AGAIN? YES. Because this shit is everywhere, mixed in with all of the trauma this show has, and it's fascinating to stare at it under a microscope.
TW: discusses the sexuality/sexualization of minors, implied/brief references to Ciel's trauma, and Sebastian is an immoral bastard (but we love him).
How fascinating to have Sullivan, an 11-year old who is OBSESSED with the idea of sex, contrasted to Ciel, a 13-year old, who often turns a blind eye or straight up refuses to think about sex (that we explicitly know of, of course).
First, let’s look at Ciel. He is VERY resistant to sexual advances, comments, or themes in general. It doesn’t help that these advances/comments are often coming from adults (e.g., his clothing designer, that creepy sex-trafficking guy I can never remember his name…). But it’s there with Sullivan too, of course (understandably… anyone would be uncomfortable with how she treated him). He keeps a certain level of innocence about himself, which I see more as a trauma response rather than an actual lack of interest. It’s not that he likely doesn’t have thoughts about sexual things, but that the concept of sex at all is something that is deeply bound to what he went through, and so he avoids it like the plague. We all know that typically 13-year-olds are well into exploring their sexuality and attitudes/desires around sex. But Ciel doesn’t seem to have any interest at all.
On top of that, he is often treated less like an adolescent and more like a prepubescent child by others, including Sebastian (at least with the topic of sex). I don’t think Sebastian sees Ciel as an innocent child like the others; instead, I think he does this for two reasons. First, he ‘shelters’ Ciel to maintain his butler persona in the presence of others. He has to follow the cultural rules and expectations of the times, which includes protecting his master’s “innocence” (an innocence that Ciel was long ago robbed of). Second, he does it to rile him up, to strip Ciel of his “adult” persona that he wears around others and make him feel vulnerable in front of Sebastian. We all know that the two of them love taking jabs at each other and getting under each other’s skin, and this is no different. Sebastian didn’t point out the inappropriateness of Doll sleeping next to him out of concern/kindness of his master’s reputation. No one was there to see it or report on it. No, he did it because he knew it would irritate Ciel.
But, I digress. Point is that Ciel is particularly sheltered and infantilized both by himself and by those around him. Part of it is the trauma (aka Ciel’s age regression that I described in a separate post), and the other part of it is due to his cultural upbringing in Victorian era England, where morality and purity of the soul were big at the time.
By contrast, Sullivan is the total opposite. The parallels between them are very obvious - they both have male butlers as their primary servant/provider, they are (mostly) isolated amongst adults, and they’re close in age. In this sense, Sullivan acts and Ciel’s foil during this arc.
Sullivan is two years younger than Ciel, and yet she is far more comfortable with the ideas of sex and sexuality than he is. She’s very forward with what she wants, very direct, and has no hangups/issues around the topic. She’s also still very young and immature, evidenced by how she doesn’t understand the inappropriateness of her questions and comments, as well as her physically grabbing Ciel without his consent. It shows that while she’s comortable exploring her sexuality, she’s still obviously very young and immature.
Sullivan’s hyper-sexuality may seem odd/uncomfortable at first, especially for those of us from western cultures where media doesn’t portray the sexual side of pre-adolescent/pre-pubescent minors. But portraying the sexual/attraction side of minors (both as the subjects and objects of desire) has been present in anime for forever. Some examples that come to mind off the top of my head are Becky’s crush on Loid in Spy x Family; Young Yosano (age 11) from Bungo Stray Dogs being crushed on by the older soldiers in her platoon; and Reg and Riko from Made in Abyss. Sometimes these things are used for comedic effect, utilizing that discomfort to cause a laugh. But other times, it’s entirely serious/genuine (as a side note, Sullivan’s scenes do both.) But that doesn’t make it bad… instead, the sexual exploration of minors in fiction within anime is often portrayed as something natural. These aren’t instances of children being taken advantage of; in fact, they are often turned down either by characters or circumstance (e.g., spy x family), or they themselves shut down those who exhibit interest (e.g., bungo stray dogs), or the exchange/situation is with someone their own age (e.g., made in abyss).
And I think that’s a distinction I’ve noticed between Japanese and Western media. Minors, specifically pre-adolescents, are often portrayed as active explorers of attraction and sexuality. Which, when we really sit down and think about it, is entirely natural and a part of overall development. Sullivan being obsessed with sex at her age, while exaggerated for humorous effect, is typical. (As a side note, I chuckled at the fact that she got her information from romance books, because I have very clear memories of being 11 years old and sneakily reading the sex scenes from my mom’s harlequin romance books when she wasn’t home!). But, as I said above, while her curiosity and desire to experience this aspect of her body that is meant to bring pleasure is normal, her approach is very immature and inappropriate.
Which brings us to a very important point: While it is normal for minors to be curious and want to explore sex, the responsibility, in the end, falls on the adults (and older minors) to maintain healthy boundaries. Sullivan is allowed to have her curiosity, but she is regularly shot down by those around her, and her sexual advances are written off as a misunderstanding due to her lack of social and cultural exposure.
It’s also worth noting that I found Sebastian’s reaction to the whole thing very interesting AND very on-point for a demon. Sebastian is far less appalled by Sullivan’s advances as well as her overall curiosity. In fact, he finds the entire thing hilarious. There is even a point where he points out “Is Mr. Wolfram not a man?” I felt like this had a double meaning. The surface level is pointing out that Wolfram is a man, even though Sullivan says she’s never seen one before. But also implies that if she were so curious about men, then why not go to her butler who is one?
Sebastian is not bound by human rules of morality. He’s a demon and sees all humans as inferior. Food, insects… you get the idea. And as a demon, I don’t think he cares much about age/age differences, either. In fact, to be honest, I think all humans likely seem like infants to him because he’s immortal. He’s been around far longer than all of them. It’s the same way someone in their 40s will see someone in their 20s as young, or the way someone in their 80s may see someone in their 40s as young. Young, old… it’s all relative to oneself, and for Sebastian, he’s the oldest there is. What he does know is that humans are very sexually motivated (he uses this to his advantage, after all). It’s just a part of their nature. He doesn’t care that the sexuality is coming from an 11 year old versus a 25 year old. To him, the solution is simple: if you want it, take it. If Sullivan wants to experience sex, then she should reach out to Mr. Wolfram because he is a man. There’s nothing sinister about, nothing predatory… it’s just the logical solution that Sebastian came to due to not being restricted by human thinking. As long as both parties are consenting, what does it matter?
Which why it is so perfect that it’s Sullivan who shuts him down. But not because Wolfram is an adult and she’s a child, but because she doesn’t think of him “that way.” She sees him as a guard dog. He’s a loyal servant, there to protect her, and in that way, is more of a parental figure to her than a romantic one (as it should be). It’s not that she can’t be attracted to an adult; she’s obviously attracted to Sebastian. Which, once again, is normal. I distinctly recall having crushes on adults as a preteen. And let’s be honest, EVERYONE crushes on Sebastian, he’s literally sex on legs.
But what’s so great about this exchange is that Sullivan, while still being a child, is given agency as a character within the story. It’s not that she can’t, but it’s that she doesn’t want to. And that, in itself, is powerful. While she may be young and immature, just starting out her sexual journey, she gets to decide what she does/doesn’t want to do with her body, who she does/doesn’t want to share it with. And she’s able to make that choice within a safe space because those around her, who are older than her, maintain that very important boundary of appropriate/inappropriate behavior, not letting her cross that threshold that can lead to a potentially damaging outcome (mentally, physically, emotionally).
We often try to maintain a strict dichotomy between “child” (no sexual agency) and “adult” (full sexual agency). However, that’s not how it works in the real world, is it? We have that transitory period of adolescence, and we can’t prevent the sexual curiosity of minors from happening. We may create this dichotomy as a way to protect children from ill-intentioned adults, but at the same time, doing so strips children of their own autonomy and ability to learn about themselves - what they like, what they don’t like, what feels safe and what doesn’t. A child without agency is a child without control, and in that sense, is at greater risk for harm when they do eventually cross that legal threshold from minor to adult.
Additionally, this binary viewpoint either promotes, or is in response to, the fear that if a child is allowed to be their own subject of sexual desire, then it will open up the allowance of them becoming the object of someone else’s sexual desire, which can increase the risk for harm. In a way, this almost puts the blame on the child, rather than the adults, as being the one responsible for maintaining healthy boundaries. It’s the same tune of “women shouldn’t dress provocatively because it might entice men to assault them.” Let us not put the blame on the victims, shall we? Allow and acknowledge the natural sexual development of children and adolescents; provide a safe space for them to be curious, to ask questions, to get things wrong. It is OUR responsibility as adults to honor and protect their space and teach them boundaries for safety.
Oops, I got sidetracked…
To tie this back to Ciel, in this sense, he’s still very much stuck in that dichotomy of “child” (no agency) and “adult” (full agency). He’s forced to occupy both spaces due to his culture and his circumstances. In that sense, he’s grappling for control within himself, his past, and the world that he is both physically bound by and yet emotionally separate from. It demonstrates how he’s still shackled by his past and by his need for revenge, and ties into his voluntary age regression that he still relies on in response to his trauma. And if Ciel has any hope of ever truly healing beyond it, then him coming to terms with his own sexuality and desires will likely have to be a part of that.
I have much more to say regarding Ciel’s sexuality within the story overall, Sebastian’s role in it, as well as how that relates to us as the viewers…. but that’s a post for another time. This post is already long enough. 💀
ANYWAAAYYYY, Green Witch Arc. Loved it, it was fantastic, so much going on in it, can't wait to see it all animated eventually! I have more ramblings to write for it, so hopefully I can get those jotted down soon!
The Black Butler revival will, of course, in this day and age, be the complete embodiment of pro-ship vs. anti-ship discourse, given the subject matter.
But for those of you who are watching this for the first time in 2024 (which includes myself!), there are certain things about the show you simply must understand, for the sake of media literacy.
The first is that Black Butler is supernatural gothic romanticism at its core. This genre alone should tell you that the relationships integral to the plot will be complex, messy, and toxic, by default. That is not only a huge part of this genre’s appeal, but very much the point of the story.
The themes are dark, the terrible things that happen to the main characters are dark, and therefore the relationships at the forefront (and in the background) will reflect that.
The gothic genre has been alluringly popular for over a century (longer, if you know your history) because audiences are entranced by the macabre, the tainted antiheroes, the monsters who live inside us all. It’s popular for a reason.
That being said, understand that whether you, the viewer, ship Sebastian and Ciel or not is irrelevant. Their bond doesn’t need to be understood as romantic or sexual, but it sure as hell isn’t normal. It isn’t healthy. And the audience knows that. That’s the draw. It’s what makes them compelling to watch.
Ciel and Sebastian’s relationship mirrors many gothic novels, poems, and penny dreadfuls written in the Victorian Era (the very same time period in which Kuroshitsuji takes place). The Victorian folks who read these tales for the first time ate that shit up, because it was tantalizing. It was shocking. It was inappropriate, and monstrous, and violent, and erotic, and went against societal norms. But that was the point.
A huge part of gothic romanticism is the blatant sexualization of the relationship between the “monstrous” characters and their human counterparts in the story. Sex itself doesn’t need to take place for their bond to be sexually charged. The forbidden nature of their relationship—which typically involves layers of social taboos, moral ambiguity, or simple infatuation—is what makes their interactions erotic. Sexual contact rarely ever actually happens in these stories. It’s the taboo nature of their bond that creates the tension.
One of the many reasons audiences love this genre is the constant question of morality in its themes. Who, between them, is the real monster? Could the human character have ever been saved? This genre is often associated with tragedy, because the bond forged between the characters in these stories are destined to end in death and destruction. The reader knows it can’t end any other way. How can it?
But an integral element of these gothic tales is the catharsis that comes with this tragedy. The corrupted human often gets what they want in the end, even if it’s at the cost of their own life. Whether they regret their choice to foster this monstrous relationship varies on the story, but it doesn’t change the trajectory of their descent.
Sebastian and Ciel’s relationship is the whole plot of Black Butler. Their closeness bears a grotesque ick factor, but it is deliberate. It is a constant reminder of how unnatrual their bond truly is. Rationalizing or watering down how abnormal they are about each other misses the point entirely. They will never have a normal, healthy relationship, and that’s what moves the plot forward.
Something that constantly catches my attention as I read Black Butler is the emphasis on Ciel being a child. It’s brought up constantly in how other characters perceive him, and it also presents itself at times within his behaviors, particularly during traumatic events. It’s intentional and vital to the story and the themes and messages within it would not be the same if Ciel were an adult.
Ciel’s childlike nature and presentation is an integral part of the overall story and his development as a character. It serves three purposes:
It symbolizes that he is not yet past the trauma he endured when he was younger.
It serves to contrast against his more mature qualities and how others underestimate him because of it.
The presence of both mature and immature qualities provide symbolism for the transient stage of adolescence and how adults respond to it.
For the first point, Ciel’s persisting youth serves as a symbol of being stuck in one’s past trauma. He is thirteen years old, and yet he looks younger, likely due to his time in captivity where malnutrition was one of the many cruelties he endured. Additionally, he maintains some child-like characteristics within his personality and actions, such as being carried often by Sebastian, having Sebastian watch over him as he falls asleep, and an avoidance/ignorance around sex/sexuality. His childlike behavior is heightened during traumatic events, such as witnessing the slaughter of children within a replicated space of where his trauma occurred (Book of Circus arc), his near-death experience with Sebastian where he had to be forcibly restrained to receive treatment (Green Witch arc), as well as when he has PTSD nightmares. He comes across as very sheltered and avoidant of topics around sex, which at least partially correlates to his cultural upbringing within Victorian era England; however, his blatant lack of awareness of sexual topics/concerns pushes even beyond his cultural restrictions into the atypical (this will be expanded upon in a separate post).
Most, if not all, of these moments show a behavioral age regression in response to trauma. He may be 13 in the present, but the scared 10 year old still lives within him.
Age regression is typically divided into two types: voluntary and involuntary.
Ciel demonstrates both of these. He demonstrates voluntary age regression by allowing Sebastian to carry him around, as well as explicitly ordering him to watch over him while he sleeps. Although I’m not entirely sure on what are considered typical butler duties, one might even see the act of dressing and washing as babying, although this also seems an appropriate duty since I’m sure Ciel never had to dress himself as a young child. Still, none of us can deny that the act of dressing and washing are an intimate and personal form of care between Ciel and Sebastian, regardless of what side of the ship/no-ship fence you’re on. The number of frames/scenes of Ciel being dressed/undressed are evidence enough that these moments hold weight for both characters. Within all of these situations, Ciel is in control; he decides how he wants to be treated, and anyone who oversteps that boundary is met with hostility (e.g., Sebastian attempting to spoon feed him). By contrast, the involuntary age regression occurs during moments of trauma, which was already described above.
Either way, the childishness of Ciel communicates the message that while trauma may happen in a specific place and time, the impact of it is lifelong and takes years to overcome.
For the second point, it’s also important to recognize that while Ciel is childish in many ways, this youthfulness of him is always put in contrast to other aspects of him that are very mature. He’s an earl and has the responsibilities of an adult, the heaviest of which is to fulfill the Queen’s orders as her watchdog. Additionally, his intelligence and wry humor are very mature for his age, partially thanks to Sebastian’s influence and education - we saw on the flashbacks how little he knew at first and how much Sebastian had to teach him. If it weren’t for the childlike aspects present (physical smallness included), he could easily pass as an adult character.
The fact that he is technically a teenager and not a preadolescent is an important one. He knew early on that he would be perceived as a younger than he was due to his small stature. In order to carry out his vengeance, Ciel knew he had to integrate adult society. He had to work particularly hard to grow up as quickly as possible, which was why he allowed Sebastian to educate him so strictly. It worked; the queen recognized his position and maturity and allowed him to take his place as her watchdog, granting him the ability to pick up his father’s mantel and become part of the dark, seedy (and very adult) underworld.
However, it goes without saying that his youth is never forgotten amongst the adults that surround him. He is constantly looked at/treated as a child by others, including his enemies, and as such, they think they can either manipulate him or don’t see him as a threat. Ciel uses this to his advantage to best his enemies with his superior intelligence and Sebastian’s supernatural skills. He’s throwing their assumptions of him back into their faces. He isn’t a child; not anymore, and especially not after what he went through. Within the world of Black Butler, children are often treated as less than human, not worthy of respect or autonomy. They’re often compared to tools, dolls, or animals. Children are ‘things,’ created by adults and for adults. It’s a beautiful irony that it’s the cruelty of adults that has transformed Ciel into the very thing that’s going to destroy them (i.e., the adults responsible). Their hubris and the fact that they underestimate him due to his youth will be their downfall.
Of course, the conversation of whether Ciel is a child or adult is, in a way, a false dichotomy. The reality is that he exists somewhere in the middle; Ciel is neither fully a child nor fully an adult, and it’s this power struggle between his trauma and the world he lives in that provides symbolism for what it means to be an adolescent. Adolescence is a transitory period that is often overlooked or de-emphasized, particularly in western culture. Adolescence is often lumped in under the category of “child” with emphasis on the younger years of childhood, especially when it comes to topics of sex/sexuality (again, this will be discussed in a separate post). As such, there’s an invisible divide that exists in western culture between being a “child” and being an “adult.” This, of course, does adolescents a disservice, as adolescents are also going through major physiology changes, as well as dealing with a change in expectations from those around them. It’s a combination of adults restricting personal autonomy and self-identity for the adolescent paired with the pressure/expectation of the adolescent to behave as an adult and provide adult-level results.
This is what makes Ciel and Sebastian’s relationship so interesting. Due to the nature of the contract, Ciel is the one in control, rather than Sebastian. It’s a strangely balanced relationship between them, where Ciel is the master and Sebastian is the servant; and yet, at the same time, Sebastian is the mentor/guardian and Ciel is the mentee/apprentice. Sebastian is able to teach and establish rules that follow his role as his butler and play along with the game of upholding Victorian values (mostly), but in the end, Ciel is the one who has the final say on what happens. In this sense, their dynamic grants Ciel the autonomy and control that he craves, while also providing him with the support that he continues to need. In this way, Ciel is able to exist in both spaces at once: being a child in some ways, and being an adult in others. Both are central to who he is, and both are important.
I've updated the info in the blog profile as well as how my rules and introduction are written, as I realized that the word choice in them didn't accurately convey my intent for this blog. Some of it may have come across as animosity I think, which wasn't my intent (I was going for boundary setting, but I could have worded it better). To be honest, as I'm new to the fandom, I didn't realize how emotionally charged the words proship/antiship are, and I don't think either really fits for me because I'm not here to take sides or argue.
(As a sidenote, I feel like a boomer learning the young kids' lingo.)
So please take another look to ensure that this is a blog you'd still like to follow/engage with.
I do have some interesting drafts written up that I'm hoping to post very soon, especially as I finish up the green witch arc; but work and life have got me busy, so I'll get to it when I can! :) In the meantime, I hope everyone is having a good week!
Something that antis who "analyze BB as media that is meant to 'cause discomfort' by displaying shotacon themes" forget is that creative texts (be they in visual, textual, or audial form) are highly psychological in the sense that you can't perfectly measure out every bit of the emotional reaction you will get from your audience.
Yes, there are writers who will specifically want to make their reader question certain moral dogmas, concepts, and ideas. There are also writers who end up writing particular concepts into their story by sheer accident.
In case of BB, though, one can't say that Yana is trying to "make her audience uncomfortable" by showing Sebaciel dynamics because nothing about it is uncomfortable. She definitely wrote it in on purpose, but claiming that it is supposed to cause some sort of a deep discussion on how Sebastian is a Bad Guy is laughable; because S/C relationship is a positive one.
Sebastian is presented - directly, indirectly, symbolically - as Ciel's only source of comfort and protection. Yes, it is a tainted liaison because it's the Devil's sacrament. It's erotic, sensual, intimate - and it's utterly comfortable.
Sebastian is the only person whose touch is comfortable to Ciel. He's among the few adults he trusts being in his vicinity. He's comfortable being alone with him. Ciel heals through his sickened bond with Sebastian. Yes, Sebastian craves him in the flesh-based, primal way. Whether you view it as erotic, beastly, or morbid does not matter: Sebastian craves Ciel. And Ciel is comfortable with that.
Yana did not fucking write it for nearly two decades to have some goddamn idiot who knows nothing about PTSD come in and say that Sebaciel is meant to be a "gross thing causing people discomfort". Sebaciel is a part of the story in the sense, "Sebastian and Ciel have A Relationship: whether it's predatory, romantic, sexual, or anything along the lines doesn't matter, but it's ultimately positive."
I think there's also an element of cultural ignorance to this notion of the shotacon elements in Kuro intending to exclusively cause "discomfort". Like, of course Westerners are uncomfortable with it because they can't just walk into a bookstore and buy shotacon manga. Yana's intended audience (JP) however has a different level of exposure to the genre and are not going to have the same response. Assuming authorial intent purely off of one's own very subjective discomfort is super silly from jump but it's even more silly when you're not even the target audience.
I presented on eroticism in Kuro at an academic conference recently, and I was surprised to see a few people in the audience were familiar with the series. As a result, I did receive one question about whether or not it's okay to consume media that seems to be "promoting" erotic themes that involve underage characters, and if the author (Yana) is intentionally writing eroticism about underage characters. And while I think OP's point is definitely valuable, it's also valuable to understand why that "discomfort" from Western audiences is also important. If we engage in discourse and analysis that solely focuses on Japanese media ethics and readership, we lose a lot of potential ground for some fascinating explorations in Western literary theory and what Kuroshitsuji is accomplishing as a text in English-speaking markets.
My answer to the question from the conference was, in essence, similar to what OP said. That it's not about being "intentional" or not, but rather how the reader perceives it and what they decide to do with the information given to them. What I do think is intentional is what is plainly written in the manga, which is an unsettling, "problematic" relationship between two characters, something that Western fiction in the 21st Century seems to have a phobia of. And that phobia inhibits some readers from being able to see the romance within that relationship, and why it matters to the plot.
I've seen a lot of people reference Game of Thrones as an example of breaking barriers (through blatantly heteronormative and oftentimes reductive ways) within Western media, but I think Kuro does this in a much more covert way. I would liken it more to the way that Studio Ghibli films subvert from Western narratives and cause "discomfort" in some of its audiences because it does not follow storytelling formulas that American audiences are familiar with.
As for Kuro, if Western fans can look beyond their discomfort with the use of Ciel as a subject of desire, then they might be able to understand the deeper criticisms about Victorian-British culture that could be at play, whether intentional or not. Rather than trying to force Western readers into consuming the story in a way that it was originally written (which is, culturally, very unlikely and appropriative), I think we should sit in that "discomfort" and explore it! In other words, it's okay to localize your reading of fiction and figure out how it relates to you culturally, ethically, and apply your own biases to it. And it's also a fascinating point to perhaps look at what it means for a Japanese author to write about those criticisms; perhaps it is coincidental, but as a Western reader, I think it's fascinating to see what happens when you place the relationship dynamics commonly found in this subgenre of manga in the setting of a neo-Victorian Britain, and how acutely it criticizes the very social structures it romanticizes.
Which is where I personally disagree with OP's statement on defining SebaCiel as resolutely "positive." I think it sits within a really gorgeous ambiguity that conflates comfort with codependence (both ways) and romance with violence. And to define it as positive or negative distracts from the consistent theme of Black Butler which is that nothing is black and white, good or bad. And Sebastian and Ciel's relationship is the ultimate culmination of that ambiguity.
If there is one thing I know about Yana Toboso, it's that we really don't know anything about her process, and I don't think she does either. I believe that she is incredibly intentional with her writing and storytelling, as hints about the twins were revealed even in the very early volumes of the series. At the same time, she has openly stated that she often does things by accident, or doesn't know much about what she's writing about but has a deep fascination with it either way. So, to claim that she is completely unaware of what she is writing is just as unfair as saying that she is completely aware of it. Ultimately, the readers have a lot of agency in interpreting the story, and that's simply the nature of fiction. Also, while the intended audience was once Japanese, it would be remiss to deny that Kuro has since gained international recognition that Yana is very aware of. And I think the increase in historical research that goes into this story, and arguably sets it apart from other Neo-Victorian manga, plays heavily in its Western media influence.
TL;DR, this is not all to say that we should enable antis to "cancel" Black Butler, but I don't think it's a bad thing to acknowledge that discomfort. I think the discomfort is a good thing, that propagates further investigations that makes our readership, and the conversations about Kuro, more robust.
I am the blog in question, so I hope it's okay that I respond. But I wanted to thank you for your clear and concise response to the discussion, and I agree with a lot of the points you've made, actually. (Also, I wish I was a fly on the wall for that presentation, it sounded fascinating!)
While I don't ship the two characters together (at least not at Ciel's current age), I am also not trying to erase or ignore the very obvious BL and shotacon undertones that are so obviously present. Honestly, to read black butler and NOT acknowledge them does the fiction a disservice, and I don't think it's only there to provide discomfort; it serves many purposes, I just haven't had a chance to post about it yet. I can recognize that it is a part of the story while also allowing myself to be uncomfortable with Ciel's child-like presentation through a sexual lens.
But the post in question was not meant to be an erasure or to speak for Yana's intent in any way, so if it came across that way, then that's a failing of my own writing, and I apologize. I was specifically looking at that particular scene and how it felt to me personally, and I understand others might see it differently.
To expand a little, I'm not saying there wasn't a sexual energy present, there obviously was, and I attributed it to Sebastian's enticing, demonic nature (I do think he's meant to be attractive to us as viewers, and that's played upon). I didn't see Ciel as sexualized in that scene (he is in others, but not that one), because of how he was drawn; yes, he had vomit that looked like drool and his mouth was open, but his eyes were closed rather than open or half-lidded, his cheeks weren't flush - signs that I usually see when a character is sexualized in anime/manga (the corset scene is a good example). To me, he seemed more in agony, and the way he behaved was more childlike (in my eyes). As such, I didn't see him as the object of Sebastian's desire, at least not in a carnal way. To me, it felt more like a demon checking the wellness of his dinner and giving the pot a lil' stir, which is why I was describing the scene as uncomfortable. I did not say that Ciel was uncomfortable or that his and Sebastian's relationship to each other is uncomfortable for them as characters; merely that it was uncomfortable as a viewer.
(I feel like I'm still not explaining it well, ugh... I did make a separate post on my blog where I tried to clarify better.)
I have actually been reading up a lot on homosexuality in Japan (the history of it, current culture, etc.). As well as the culture around BL/yaoi and shotacon/lolicon. So I am educating myself on this topic where I can, and I actually am hoping to share a bit of what I learn in a separate post on my blog at some point.
Personally, for me, I enjoy the show because of their dynamic and Sebastian's character specifically, even with the BL undertones present. But those sexualized aspects are not as important to me in the sense that I don't have the desire to have them be physically intimate together as a cornerstone of their relationship, which has me look at the story a little differently.
I'm still making my way through the manga; I'm not caught up like everyone else, and my stance on things are always flexible. So that should also be taken into account when I'm making my posts. My blog isn't meant to be the end-all-be-all of Black Butler analysis. It's not at all meant to be "my way is correct and your way is wrong." It's simply a place for me to think through everything, a place to dump my hyperfixation and talk about the themes that I notice, etc. I hope that at least clarifies things a little bit.
Recently there was a post that was obviously related to what I recently wrote regarding the PTSD scene in Book of Circus. That person chose to make their own (not so) vague post rather than communicating directly via the ask box or a reblog, so I’m not going to reblog it because I’m guessing they don’t want to interact with me (totally fine, btw).
But I do want to make a new post to clarify what I apparently did not communicate correctly before, in case others are curious for a response.
First and foremost, I actually DO understand PTSD. I have a history of CSA and child abuse that persisted across multiple years, and it most definitely is an important part of who I am, and something I am still working through. So please refrain from making accusations about a stranger online just because you’re upset.
Now, about the post….
When I was describing the discomfort I felt between Sebastian and Ciel during the PTSD scene, I was not doing so as a generalization of “this is how their dynamic always is” and “their relationship can only be toxic/bad,” etc. I was only referring to that scene specifically. The discomfort I spoke of was referring to the viewer (which is subjective - I never said it wasn’t), not to the characters’ relationship.
It felt uncomfortable because of the contrast between Sebastian’s manipulative, predatory nature (which was very soothing and calming) and Ciel’s fragile mental state, emphasized by his regression in response to trauma. It’s about finding (as the viewer) Sebastian’s sensual actions arousing contrasted with Ciel’s obvious suffering that makes the scene have an underlying layer of unease. The dichotomy of arousal and discomfort would be there as well if Ciel were an adult, because the manipulation is the same. BUT, the discomfort is worsened because in this moment, Ciel’s behavior is more childlike than the way he usually is. It’s not to make Sebastian out as a pedophile/groomer, but to show Ciel at his most weakest, and Sebastian is taking that opportunity to push him over the edge into violence. Additionally, Ciel’s childness is also there to remind us that he’s not out of his trauma yet; that, in many ways, it’s still ongoing for him.
Of course not everyone has that reaction to the scene… maybe others find it protective, which I can also see those undertones, especially when Sebastian carries Ciel while fulfilling his orders, instead of simply leaving him on the floor by himself. Maybe there are those that find it romantic, a white night coming to save. I personally don’t, but if you do, then good for you! We can agree to disagree and leave it at that. I’m not here to cast moral judgment on others over fictional characters, and I’m not here to speak for everyone. These analyses are simply my own and so it’s about how the message comes across to me.
I had never said that Ciel didn’t find comfort in Sebastian. In fact, it’s the very reason that he finds comfort in him that Sebastian’s tender approach worked, and got Ciel to finally open his eyes and give him the orders that he wanted. But I did find the lip touch to be something that felt out of place, more the indulgence of a hungry demon inspecting his future meal rather than something done to console, and Ciel’s lack of reaction to it demonstrated how far gone he was in his panic attack. Yes, Ciel allows Sebastian to dress him, bathe him, carry him, etc.; but he also at times expresses boundaries either through body language (frowning, pulling back slightly) or verbal protest (e.g., when Sebastian tried to spoon feed him). Just because Ciel lets him care for him in some ways, doesn’t mean he’d give Sebastian a free pass to touch him in other, more intimate ways outside of his butler duties. That was why that moment felt unnerving.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that their relationship is largely positive. I wouldn’t call it entirely negative, either. In actuality, I would describe it as complex. Sebastian, first and foremost, is a demon and his purpose is to cultivate Ciel’s soul. Yana herself has described him as elite trash, hyper-narcissistic, and that he enjoys seeing Ciel struggle. And it’s because of this characterization that it’s so interesting to see Sebastian slowly evolve into someone who does care. There are absolutely clues of him learning to “care” in his own weird way. He’s been shown to be protective, and will do kindnesses that he doesn’t have to do, for Ciel and others, and worry when Ciel is in danger that seems to go beyond losing his meal. These glimpses contrasted with scenes where his demon side really comes through is what makes him such an interesting character to begin with.
Yes, in a strange way Sebastian is helping Ciel heal, but it’s in a warped sort of way, like a broken bone that never gets set properly and heals wrong. Sebastian’s goal isn’t to truly heal Ciel; it’s to help him complete his vengeance and ripen his damaged soul in preparation for eating. And yes, he’s likely going to grow attached to it by the end of it, which will make the act that much more personal and meaningful if/when it does happen.
The entire thing is complicated, dark, beautiful, and yes, in some ways toxic. The discomfort is there (for the viewer - or at least some of us), and that’s okay. It’s literally a part of dark fantasy, and, if you want to go there, dark romance. It’s the moral ambiguity of decisions and motivations, that blurring of lines between good and evil, and finding comfort in darkness and violence. If that discomfort wasn’t there, then the story wouldn’t be what it is. It wouldn’t be Black Butler at all.
Analyzing Book of Circus: Sex, Attraction, and Physical Touch Are Simply Tools for Sebastian
There are two things we know for certain about Sebastian. One, he is a demon, and as such, isn't bound by silly things such as human morals and human standards of right and wrong. Two, he's hot as heck and everyone knows it. This is intentional, of course... it's a key part of his design and a big part of what makes him such a desirable character. It's a theme often found with dark supernatural characters (vampires, demons, werewolves, fae, etc.) and it's that call of temptation, exploration of sex and sexuality, looking taboo in the eye, and following that dark lure of danger that makes such characters so enticing for so many of us.
So, of course we see how this comes up and presents itself throughout Black Butler. Specifically, this post is looking at how Sebastian utilizes his attractiveness as well as physical touch to manipulate those around him.
So, first, let's look at how he seduces Beast and manipulates her to gain information. He manipulates Beast's loneliness and pain combined with her attraction towards him to sleep with her and get the name of "father." It was a few heavily spoken words, promising relief from the ache she felt, and choice hand placements. Gripping her wrist, a hand on her hip. But every moment of that entire scene, from the moment he approaches her to when they are in her tent, was him being calculating and emotionally barren. There was no kissing, hardly any face to face positioning. Even when he first comes onto her, he's behind her, with eye contact at a minimum. The parts that we do see of him touching her during the act are primarily when he's undressing and touching her prosthetic rather than her actual skin. Even the shadows on the wall are only of her and her reaction to what he's doing to her, symbolizing how he's really not "there" with her. He's removed entirely from the exchange, and he talks through the entire thing. It's just another work day for him.
It's not the first or last time that Sebastian uses his attractiveness and sex appeal to manipulate. There are other points throughout the series where it happens as well, and with good reason - his entire characterization is centered around his sex appeal. He's meant to be irresistible, attractive to the point of distraction, possessing an otherworldly beauty and air of mysterious allure that humans are particularly susceptible to. William describes him as much in Book of Circus. He's a predator specifically designed to lure his prey into a false sense of security before striking, and his prey are humans. It doesn't matter their age, gender, sex, or race. Souls are souls, and they are made for devouring.
Which brings us to the PTSD scene where Ciel is having a full on panic attack/mental breakdown, drool and all. Sebastian is very close to him, grinning like the cat that caught the canary, and the entire vibe of it is uncomfortable due to how close and intimate it feels, all while Ciel is suffering and Sebastian is looking and nefariously seductive. Every action and angle of him in that scene is sensual and intimate (his finger swiping Ciel's lip, untying Ciel's eyepatch, etc.), while Ciel is obviously not. His eyes are closed, his face contorted in misery, drool/vomit down his chin… this moment is about his suffering. In fact, he hardly registers the way Sebastian is touching him, which makes this scene verge on noncon; after all, how would Ciel react to having his lips touched if he wasn't in the middle of a panic attack? It's this crossroad of Sebastian's predatory sex appeal and Ciel's trauma that makes this scene so uncomfortable. This is exacerbated even more so by the fact that Ciel is a child which is made even more obvious during this scene. Ciel is having flashbacks of his trauma from years prior, when he was younger and smaller, and he is pleading for Sebastian in the way a child may call for their parent during a nightmare. Ciel in that moment wasn't "13 year old going on 30" as he often portrays himself. He was a small little boy, once again trapped in his cage.
Meanwhile, Sebastian is simply relishing in Ciel's suffering and seizes the opportunity to change the power dynamic between them. Ciel may be his master, but Sebastian is the one pulling the strings in this moment. Sebastian's gentle, his voice is smooth, his touch is soothing. He holds his outstretched hand, wrapping his arms around him. He fills up Ciel's vision, making him focus on the demon's physical presence rather than the horror that's unfolding. And Ciel allows it, even the touching of his lips, unaware of the boundary it's crossing because he's literally in the middle of a panic attack and needs to be saved. It's manipulation, plain and simple; Sebastian is fostering codependency as a tool to further corrupt the soul he will eventually get to devour. He's using this close proximity and intimate contact to push Ciel to call on his demon and slaughter everyone. Sebastian may be the sword, but Ciel is the hand, and in the end, this act of violence falls on him. In the end, it's his soul that suffers, which is just how Sebastian wants it to be.
Even the touch of Ciel's lips is a predatory one; it may seem to drip with sexually charged energy, especially since the lips are an erogenous zone (imagine if he did that to an adult… tell me that wouldn't immediately seem sexual); however, this sexual presence is largely in part to that just being a part of Who Sebastian Is. As stated before, that allure is a part of his design as a hunter, so of course it will be the strongest/most noticeable when occurring in the presence of human weakness.
The way he draws his thumb along his lip is like checking the ripeness of fruit. The way he stares down at him is like a chef checking a pot of stew simmering on the stove. It's almost as if he can smell the corruption brewing through Ciel's open mouth. (Also, I'd bet money that the soul is "removed" from the body through the mouth, as this was also implied at the end of season 1, even though that episode wasn’t technically canon). This doesn't really surprise me, because creatures of the night devouring their victims through physically intimate situations is a pretty common theme (e.g., vampires biting necks/thighs). It all ties into Sebastian's dark nature. Once again, it's intended to be uncomfortable.
And once he gets Sebastian's permission, the discomfort of the scene immediately ends, Sebastian’s predatory sex appeal is muted (but still present - always present). Ciel is carried in Sebastian's arms like a child being carried off to bed while Sebastian slaughters everyone. Sebastian's manipulation worked; his food gave into the rage and Sebastian gets to kill for him, thus bringing him closer to completing his contract.
Contrast this with the times when Sebastian is not trying to manipulate Ciel, and his touches are far more tame and appropriate. Wiping the water off of Ciel’s body, feeling his forehead for a fever, etc. It’s usually when he’s fulfilling his butler duties, or when Ciel’s life is in danger, that he almost forgets his predatory nature and behaves almost normally. Perhaps it’s through these gentler, everyday interactions that helps Sebastian gradually grow an attachment to his young master. He still sees him as food, but less predator/prey and more farmer and his livestock, a steward for a broken soul until it’s ready for slaughter. But I feel like if there’s any chance of Sebastian growing beyond his demon nature, it’ll be through these mundane but meaningful moments.
Hello there♪! I've just discovered this blog and it peek my interest 👀
And since the askbox is open.., what's your opinion on the fourth arc, Noah's Ark Circus/Season 3/Book of Circus?
Yessss! I love LOVE Book of Circus! It's honestly my favorite animated arc so far, and I really think it's because of how dark the content is and how we learn more about Ciel's past and his trauma.
Some things that I found interesting and/or loved about this arc:
The theme of good people doing bad things, and overall a human's capacity to both love and commit atrocities simultaneously (the circus orphans and their relationship with the Baron; also Ciel's decision to burn everything to the ground, including the lobotomized children).
The theme of childhood trauma and how it warps one's ability to identify toxic/damaging relationships, familial or otherwise (Joker's relationship with the Baron, Beast being seduced and manipulated by Sebastian for information)
The way that sex, sexual tension, and overall physical touch are merely tools for Sebastian; it's a means to an end (oh boy do I have an entire essay on this already typed up, just based on this arc).
Ciel's PTSD panic attack scene - so uncomfortable but also SO FREAKING GOOD. It was uncomfortable on purpose, because Sebastian is a manipulative fucking demon. There was so much happening with this scene, so much nuance in it... UGH. Definitely need to write an entire post about this scene specifically.
The ever present nuances of the gray areas that Sebastian has. Does he care or does he not care? Is he doing kind things to manipulate or because he's genuinely concerned for his master? Could it be a little bit of both?
Oh man, so much to say... but Tumblr doesn't give me enough characters to put it all into this ask, so I'll have to do a more in-depth analysis in a separate post.
I'm really glad you made this blog, I've just gotten back into Black Butler after not being able to get my hands on the manga and only watching the anime + movies when I was in like middle school?? I've been having a hard time finding any blogs that catch my interest and also aren't s3baci3l weirdos so I'm happy to know this place exists, once I'm all caught up on the manga I will definitely be back because I have so many words in my brain about this series.
Hello! Welcome to the blog, I'm happy to have you here! I understand the discomfort around the sebaciel shippers; I'm glad this can be safe space for you within the fandom. Keep in mind, proshippers are welcome to interact with this blog as well, so long as they follow the rules I posted, so I may receive asks from them at times and engage in discussion with them. Just wanted to make that clear for you in case that's an issue.
Feel free to drop by as you make your way through the manga! I might update my blog profile to include where I'm at in the manga so others can come talk about it up to that point. Also I'm a sucker for spoilers, so some stuff I already know. But I'm waiting to read it myself before I comment on it.
BLOG RULES (yes they're long, please read them anyway)
1. All discussion is to remain civil. No accusations, cruelty, or threats will be tolerated. If there is anything here that you do not like or that is triggering for you, please block this blog.
2. To support rule 1, the anon option will be turned off for this ask box. Either say what you would like to say with your whole chest, or don't say it at all.
3. This blog is not a sebaciel blog. I have nothing wrong with what other people ship, but for me, I don't thirst for Ciel and therefore do not want any Ciel or sebaciel thirsts in my askbox. I am more than happy to discuss the shotacon and BL themes from a literary and cultural standpoint, but that's as far as I'm willing to go with it.
4. This blog is not antiship. I am not here to villianize sebaciel shippers. Everyone is to be treated with respect.
To elaborate, shotacon does not make someone a pedophile. One involves fictional characters that don't exist, while the other clearly involves the violation of actual children. This distinction between fantasy and reality is crucial. Such triggering and damaging labels should not be thrown around lightly and will not be tolerated here (I am very serious about this and will likely make a separate post about it later because it's important to me).
Therefore, I will not be blocking pro-shippers from engaging in fandom discussion. If that makes you uncomfortable, then protect your peace and block me. What we will not do here is bring out our pitchforks.
5. If things get too heated in the comments or the reblogs (i.e., name-calling, personal attacks, accusations, etc.), then I will lock the post and block the offenders. I know this fandom is heavily divided between the proshippers and the antishippers, but this is gonna be a drama-free space, so help me.
6. I will not take writing requests or headcanons. This is not a fanfic blog. It is for story and art analysis only.
7. On the flip side, asks about my thoughts or you wanting to share your thoughts are always welcome! I'm not here to scream endlessly into a void. I'm here to see if the void answers back!
