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You don't ship women with their abusers but you ship Rhaenyra with Daemon? And no, just because they are married does not make them functional, marriages are abusive too.

I hate Rhae#icent or Rhae#aria both are nonbook slop but Nyra was used and abused by every relationship she had in canon, even those she thought her own.

Laena was her proper love in the book she met as equal. She was minor when she was involved first with Daemon, then Harwin. (I ignore Cole and Laenor she did not love them like that.) then she met Laena and it was a happier time.

So yes Rhaenicent is ew but so is Daemyra. He cheated on her and left her for a younger girl in the book and choked her and psychologically abused her in the show.

Stop performative bs#

Okay, first of all; I don't fuck with the show. I hate it. It has lazy, empty writing and bad characterisation of the characters. I also greatly dislike show daemyra because the writers done fucked up the dynamic of daemyra.

Onto the book. The argument that daemon was a creepy old man grooming his niece does not track because he was away at war from 106AC until 111AC. Rhaenyra was 9 when he left, and 14 when he returned. The thing to realise when reading a fantasy series based on medieval England is to read it without modernisation in mind. Is it gross for a grown man to court a 14 year old today? Yes I'd call the cops and beat his ass. Was it gross back then? Unfortunately not.

Anyway, for six months Daemon was back in Viserys' good graces and spent time with Rhaenyra surrounded by others, and no one reported any problems between them (we cannot trust Mushroom because he's a naughty unreliable narrarator). We also can't trust Septon Eustace's account because he's a fanatic Green supporter who would have done anything to discredit Rhaenyra has heir so Aegon could be named instead.

Daemon then left, exiled once again, and only returned in 115AC when he married Laena and they both left for Essos to avoid Viserys' wrath, only returning after Baela and Rhaena were born, and during this time 116-117ish, were Daemon and Rhaenyra were likely reunited.

I also agree that Laena and Rhaenyra were likely lovers, and that's the only woman I'll ship with Rhaenyra.

Then Laena died - rip my girl :( - and Laenor in 120 and Daemon and Rhaenyra married when she was 23 and he was 39, and they had 2 kids together. Only thing about this that annoys me is that they didn't wait longer to grieve Laena/Laenor, but I digress.

In the book, its Mushroom - unreliable as they come - who insists that Daemon and Nettles were lovers, but many more contemporaries insist that Daemon doted upon her like a father and taught her many lessons she may not have had as a commoner. There's more evidence that she was his bastard daughter, or perhaps a surrogate daughter after the deaths of two of his children plus the stillbirth of Visenya, that he used to cope with his grief.

Mysaria is the one who twisted the narrative that Daemon and Nettles were lovers, and she's oh, so reliable.

So yeah. Show!Daemon is barely Daemon Targaryen, and book!Daemon may have been a rogue, but he isnt the monster so many people paint him as and I love book!daemon idc

darklinaforever

The fact that Daemon killed his wife is something the show made up. But even if he did... how does that stop us from viewing Daemon as a feminist icon just for the fun of it? Daemon kills whatever stands in his way. Without distinction. Woman or man. Just as he might team up with a woman. Defend her. Or fight alongside her. He literally treats men and women as equals. That’s the feminist principle. Even if it extends to his murderous logic. And for fuck's sake... RHAENYRA WAS NEVER 13?! In the show, she’s 19 when Daemon fingers her, and they have full sexual relations six years later. An adult the whole way through. In the book, Daemon courted a 14-year-old Rhaenyra. But this was feudal times, and Rhaenyra was already being courted by other men. That’s just how things were back then. It had nothing to do with Daemon having a thing for young girls. But nothing sexual happened. Officially, they only had relations when Rhaenyra was an adult! LIKE!? STOP MAKING SHIT UP!

@lizzie-queenofmeigas

@kittenfangirl20

lovl3igh

grateful for the episode where we see why six men or sixty, he is still daemon targaryen. after s2 nightmare it is truly a blessing.

lovl3igh

the question was who would rule westeros better - rhaenyra or aegon

"i'll say aegon even tho ik he would be a shit king" is what you're saying, sarah

the fastest this fandom will understand that team green and team black is not about who you like more, who you enjoy more on screen/page and which character you find more interesting, but about which monarch should sit throne by right and morals, the closer will get to utopia. is not so hard to say "yes, rhaenyra is rightful queen, but i like aegon's character more", "rhaenyra has bigger rights but she was not perfect queen. also alicent is more interesting" or "jacaerys is rightful heir to the throne but i don't enjoy his character as much as aemond's".

you took political factions of the show and turned it into popularity contest. and y'all still losing.

lovl3igh

the other reason why I don't listen to "vaemond was right, lucerys had no right by blood to driftmark" blah blah blah is because we all know that vaemond was there just being greedy and hypocritical. "you may run your house as you see fit" as if he didn't agree to support aegon and fight against rhaenyra if alicent and otto made him a ruler of driftmark.

he did not care about "the right". by right luke was never a bastard cause he was never declared one by the only people who could actually say who conceived him - rhaenyra, laenor and harwin themselves. by right luke was the driftmark heir bc corlys, current lord, named him that. by right rhaenyra was the heir to the iron throne as king's eldest child and as the named heir.

he didn't care about his house. his actions were also against house targaryen. him naming rhaenyra a whore and declaring help for hightowers were against house targaryen. against the whole realm actually.

i will never take seriously anyone who defend vaemond there. you know he's a fucking liar and greedy bitch and you excuse his actions to hate on rhaenyra.

lovl3igh

"rhaenyra thinks she has a claim because her daddy said so" yeah... that's... that's kinda how it works... when your daddy is a king

novaursa

And just like that Andal Law Of Succession is forgotten... Please Google it...

lovl3igh

1. targaryens aren't andals, they're from old valyria. they're also called rulers of the andals, the rhoynar, and the first men. rhoynar do not follow male primogeniture, and why would you assume valyrians follow andals' law over other cultures of all kingdoms they rule?

2. male-preference primogeniture is not binding for the westerosi nobles. grrm himself confirmed that westerosi law is purposefully modelled the way to be "vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations, and often contradictory" so it would be always the highest authority (viserys in that case) to state the law. not stating certain law (eg not stating targaryens follow andals' law) give men more power to change customs which works perfect for targaryens who are considered more gods than humans so then not all humans' laws apply to them (they can practise incest, aegon was legally married to both his sisters)

3. andals' law says that daughter goes before brother. so if targaryens follow that law and not just had male preferernce (i'll remind you that alysanne herself confirmed that daenerys had right to rule before aemon until jaehaerys made him his heir) daemon would never be considered to rule before rhaenyra

4. alysanne's widow's law actually does apply to targaryens and it says not only that after father inherits eldest daughter (if there's no son) but the child from previous marriage cannot be disinherited in the favor of child from next marriages. viserys did not have living son with aemma, then he named rhaenyra his heir, so any child from his second marriage had less rights to inherit than rhaenyra and her children

5. even if you didn't understand all that, both in the book and the series both sides - blacks and greens - confirmed that rhaenyra is the rightful heir and aegon is the usurper. let me provide you some examples:

these are the people who knows their law. there's a king, many times reminding who's his heir, asked to change the line of succession. why if aegon became the heir the moment he was born? alicent, aemond and aegon, queen and princes, all using the word "usurp". the hand confirming that not only rhaenyra has a claim, but also that the only thing against her is being a woman. rhaenyra's loyalist and antis both calling her the heir or already queen. like this is literally right in front of you. but where is stated that targaryens follow andals's law?? that's right, nowhere

lovl3igh

"corlys is right, he gave up everything for rhaenyra, he lost his children, wife, fleet, high tide, he only asks for alyn and addam to be legitimized" a, a, i will stop you right there!

first of all this is not my book grandpa corlys, cause he was still awful in book as a man (yk marrying 16 yo and cheating on her later on), he was THE grandpa to velaryon boys. and he def not said "if this be victory, I hope I never see another" like he just found out he lost a pencil.

corlys is NOT right arguing with rhaenyra. idgaf he's heartbroken and tired. he has no right to speak that way to grieving mother and his queen. he can speak all he wants about keeping her side and upholding her lies but he did that for himself, for his pride, bc he rather lie in front of everyone that the crowned heir's children are his blood that admit that his son failed to give rhaenyra heirs or that he's gay. he kept his mouth shut when it fitted him, now he speaks up.

rhaenyra is not at fault for corlys losing his children. obv had nothing to do with laena, and with laenor - i don't see him protesting against her plan. and surely she had every right to get rid of him since he was useless at court. corlys happily was pushing for that wedding knowing damn well that laenor is gay.

rhaenyra is not guilty of rhaenys' death. first of all - that was aemond who killed her. second of all rhaenys volunteered to go. no one made her. she had no problem to risk her life for rhaenyra btw. and anyway - both for her and corlys - they could have choose to support aegon or to do nothing. it was not just the matter of fighting for someone but also to fight for future for themselves, were they rather live under the rule of rhaenyra or hightowers?

he lost his fleet and high tide bc he's a fucking loser. triarchy didn't go after rhaenyra. they don't give a fuck about iron throne. they came to get revenge on corlys. they burn his treasure to hurt corlys. and jacaerys died protecting the fleet and corlys' granddaughter that day. why triarchy wanted revenge? daemon stooped fighting them after the stepstones. rhaenyra (the only sane person apparently) suggested fortifing and garrisoning it. alicent suggested doing nothing and that's what viserys did. corlys went off fighting triarchy again on his own wish.

also the excuses that he was angry or upset... s1 corlys wanted to back off from war and keep close ALL his grandchildren together. s1 corlys told rhaenys to shut up about velaryon boys and kept the succession line to go through laenor. s1 corlys declared for rhaenyra shortly after vaemond's death. s2 corlys wanted to make baela his heir. s2 corlys almost cried seeing dagger made for luke. s3 corlys is just completaly different person and it's not bc he changed, it's because of shitty writing. unless he hit his head reallyyyy hard during that damn battle. like wtf to you mean with luke and jace's deaths your line and name ends?? name - there are vaemond's children. line - there's baela, rhaena (and joffrey) who can also pass the name velaryon to their children.

also he has some nerves demanding from rhaenyra to legitimize alyn and addam immadietaly while he himself was waiting 30 years to admit they are his sons.

maybe it's good thing luke's dead, cause his heart would be broken from all that hatred.

lovl3igh

"rhaenyra should have legitimized jace if she wanted him to be heir" baby, he was her heir. and she didn't have to legitimize him because according to law he was trueborn child of laenor. laenor claimed so and so did rhaenyra. as long as these two or harwin didn't say anything velaryon boys ARE actual velaryon boys and the rest is just rumors. what more, the only people that should be concerned with jace and luke's parentage - so viserys and corlys - didn't give a fuck about whom rhaenyra fucked to give them heirs. they just didn't. so i'm sorry, random jenny from storybrooke, but you can shove "they don't have silver hair" paternity test in your ass

darklinaforever

"Daemon emotionally and sexually manipulated his 15-year-old niece."

Why does everyone forget that Daemon returns after four years in Episode 4? In Episode 1, Rhaenyra is 14. By the second episode, a few months have passed, and she is 15. In Episode 3, Daemon has been gone for three years, and in Episode 4, it is stated that he has been away for four years! Rhaenyra can't possibly still be 15 in Episode 4! It’s crazy, this habit of deliberately making female characters younger just to victimize them even more. Even Emma D'Arcy says Rhaenyra is 15 in Episode 4, when she clearly isn't!

But I suppose it’s easier to tell yourself that than to accept the idea that a nearly twenty-year-old Rhaenyra decided to give in to her crush on Daemon—her uncle. And easier to convince yourself that Daemon must have manipulated her into accepting incest, as if people in Westeros couldn't just marry their uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, or cousins when they want!

@lizzie-queenofmeigas

@kittenfangirl20

ladystoneshart

I can't with the double standards in this fandom when olenna tyrell weaponizes her gay relatives to terrorise a blonde woman and put her bloodline on the iron throne everyone calls her "queen" and "woke grandma" 🙄 but when I, otto hightower

lizzie-queenofmeigas

I just find it abhorrent how Alysmonds claimed that Aemond “scored a hot milf” when he actually took a lowborn woman as “a prize of war” after slaughtering her household (including the children) and conquering her home. Alys had no choice in the matter. That’s a dragon riding commander-prince who’s taken her home and she’s a wetnurse. Women historically treated as “prizes of war” were sex slaves to conquering commanders.

And Aemondwives/Greens love to argue semantics to whitewash crimson chin, but let’s look at how GRRM uses “prize of war” in another context: Jon Roxton, one of Ormund Hightower’s men, takes Sharis Footly as a “prize of war,” rapes her, and murders her husband. Jonos Bracken takes Hildy, a lowborn woman as a “prize of war” after he beheads her lover, a sellsword fighting for the Blackwoods during the War of the Five Kings. Theon claims that in other circumstances he’d have followed the Ironborn tradition and take the Myraham captain’s daughter as a “prize,” “kept [her] to wife whether [she] willed it or no,” as a “salt wife,” “captured on raids.”

In Westeros, that lowborn women and even highborn women are linked to material goods as “prizes” is an emblem of dehumanization and the treatment of women as property, particularly during war. Women whose homes are sieged by commanders and their soldiers are at the mercy of those men. They have no power to consent and there is no equilibrium in the relationship for consent to even be possible in such situations.

Aemond’s stans are mostly incels and male centered pick me’s so they won’t care of course, but it is always amusing that the loudest voices on team feminist media literacy constantly glorify Aemond and Alysmond and tauntingly overlook that he’s a rapist. Where did all the analyses of power imbalances, patriarchy, wartime sexual violence, brutalization of the smallfolk go ? Or is that only applicable when they want it to be applicable ?

One would think that the same people waxing lyrical day in and day out about how Targaryens are genocidal colonizers would surely think of a Targaryen prince ruthlessly raining fire and death upon the Riverlands and taking a lowborn woman as a sex slave an act of said colonialism ? Or will the refrain be that “it’s just fiction, you don’t have to approve of it to stan him” ? Then why go after Rhaelyas or Team Black for their ships and favorites ? Is that not the height of hypocrisy ?

I challenge Aemondwives to find a meaning of “prize of war” that isn’t “sex slave,” that under these conditions Alys would be able to consent to Aemond taking her as a concubine without believing that refusal could have severe consequences for her life, that Alys would be able to end the relationship without fearing retaliation, that Alys herself didn’t exercise her agency by knowingly sending her captor and rapist to his death.

Period.

sassyfoxunknownn

its very funny to me how whenever we see a villian's 'tragic backstory' we are supposed to sympathize with them and they are shown as misunderstood when the protagonists are literally right there going through the same stuff, especially by the villain's hand, getting traumatized in real life and still being good. the more the people try to woobify villians these days the more i am getting tired of this 'anti hero' and 'morally grey' characters archetype. its just boring to me now. i can never root for them.

nrilliree

Fans defending that Aemond was completely innocent and in no way deserved what happened in Driftmark remind me of parents who consider their children to be innocent angels and blame the whole world for the fact that the child was bitten by a dog after the child was beaten dog in the face with a stick.

Green stans and Aemond stans you can block me now. You don't have to make an effort to read the post. I'll make it easy for you - do it.

The children attacked first, but it was Aemond who escalated the fight. It's Aemond, who threatened to kill them. It was Aemond who reached for the weapon first (yes, heavy rock is also a weapon).

1) Aemond knew perfectly well that he was doing something wrong, so he sneaked into Vhagar in the middle of the night. He didn't wait until the next day to get it right. No, he sneaked out of the castle and go to Vhagar because he knew it was WRONG. But he did that anyway.

2) He was acting like a complete dick towards the twins, who had never done anything wrong to him, and who had their mother's FUNERAL that day. A mother who died burned by a dragon. The dragon that Aemond threatened them with!

Yes, Rhaena hit him. Baela hit him after he hit Rhaena much harder. He was a boy a few years older than them, a preteen who mocked Rhena for saying that Vhagar was his and she could have a pig. She had no idea about the joke Aegon had made! All she knew was that Vhagar was her mother's dragon, the dragon that had burned her mother, and now Aemond was threatening her with the same thing. Of course two grieving children will react emotionally.

2) Luke, the youngest of these children, only attacked Aemond after he hit Jace. He didn't attack him first like some beast. Aemond choked him and then threatened the seven-year-old that he would smash his head with a rock and Luke would die in the flames. A seven-year-old, if he wasn't younger. Of course Luke will be terrified. Especially since Aemond hit Jace on the head with that rock and then threatened him with it again, looking at the twins with a smirk on his face. He enjoyed the twins' and Jace's fear. Unlike the others, Aemond was not terrified. THIS is not scary. This is a glimpse of what Aemond will become - a coward who murders children, surrenders old men, and burns innocent people.

Luke was defending his older brother and the fact that he injured Aemond's eye was an accident. To Luke, Jace and the twins were in real danger because it was Aemond who had led him to believe so!

lovl3igh

i wanna make it extremely clear before june 21. I am team black. no, i don't care what rhaenyra will do in s3. no, i don't care if she's passive, agressive, innocent, evil, fanatic, saint, or whatever else. i will support her right to the throne bc she was rightful heir and is rightful queen. i will be annoyed and mad about her behaviour and it will not shake my loyalty. and since you don't care about aegon being the rapist and aemond being kinslayer and mass murderer while supporting them in their usurpation, i do not think i need to hear your "you're tb while she's evil" blah blahs while she's taking what's hers back from rapists usurpers.

formerlyluckymanticore

Reblog if you will never. Ever. Use AI in your writing.

rhaenin-time

Daemon: War is bad. Unlike many of the men of the realm itching for combat, I actually have been to war and I really don't feel like doing it again. I think we should do our best to end this conflict with diplomacy, and possibly a little assassination, in order to avoid a war. Especially a war pitting dragons against dragons. I've read extensive histories of the wars of Valyria and I'm saying right now, we should do our very best to avoid outright combat both on land and in the sky.

HBO: Ahh... so he's a warmonger!

darklinaforever

Hotd is really a bad adaptation.

hllywdwhre

Hey, if Alicent was a childbride at 15 and that’s the excuse you use to justify why she can’t be held accountable for her horrible actions, then Daemon was a child husband when he was forced to be married to a woman who he hated and hated him at 16 and can’t be held accountable for any of his actions either🫶🏻

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