The Hellish Todoroki Family: Final
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The Hellish Todoroki Family: Final
even if it's hell⊠you've got people watching you.
flashfire fist!
Did Enji atone to Touya (and his family) and stepped up on his role as a father?
Boku no Hero Academia has a grave 'flaw'. The fact that's strongly tied to Japanese culture and Buddhism makes it a very interesting work but also makes it a hardly international work because way too many cultural things are left unexplained because they're assumed to be a given. Only they're not when the work is read by foreign readers. And this lead to confusion.
The Todoroki plotline is an example of this.
In the west many feel Enji did nothing for Touya or did too little because the little he did is a given in the west. The point is... it's not a given in Japan. In Japan is a BIG DEAL. So let's go though it.
This post is interesting and well-researched, so thank you for putting in the effort to try and understand the character.
That said, I disagree with several points. I hope you're open to discussion? If you're not feel free to ignore this reply.
Sure I'm open to discussion! (though the day after tomorrow I'll have to leave for a travel, I'll be pretty busy and I won't have with me my pc so I'll likely won't reply to messages or, if I'll manage to they'll be pretty short).
I think you're under the impression I don't live in the west. I do, by when I was born. And I've seen the opposite. On the news I've seen families still sticking for their criminal relatives, not forgiving what they've done but wanting to still be there for them. I worked in a area near to an ex-prison. The houses there used to be all of people who had a relative in prison. They moved there to be close to their familiar because otherwise visiting became too troublesome. I've known of people who kept visiting their loved ones in jail.
I've even seen people who're not relative forgive the one who murdered their loved ones.
And I've heard way too much people should forgive. Forgive, forgive, forgive. Not condone but forgive.
I'm a bad sheep, an odd one as I'm not really pro forgivance in real life. It's not I don't understand it's importance and all, it's just not my cup of thing.
I don't know if I would be capable to forgive a relative if he were to end up in jail and I hope I'll never find out.
Of course you can complain I've generalized maybe a tad too much. The west is a BIG area. Countries in the west are more similar among them than with countries in the east but they're pretty different among them.
And people in the same country are different among them.
In truth I don't know if there's a country in the west in which people who has a criminal son would find normal to do like Yagami Soichirou and say 'fine, I'll kill him and then kill myself' (BTW, just to play safe, I've said I'm not forgiving but I still wouldn't be all right with this either).
So I guess the best thing we can do is to agree our experiences are different and formed our opinions, instead than trying to tell each other who has the experience that's more valid and general and fitting of the rest of the west population or who of us as an opinion that fits the most of the fandom and therefore can talk for the whole of it for this little discussion.
Now... could Enji save Touya or not?
I think you agree with me that the story want us to believe that Enji loved Touya. We have this as a common ground.
Now here it's were our experiences differ.
My experience teaches me that people who love other people have an extremely hard time letting go of them. They insist on doing CPR even when there's nothing to do, or are at the hospital and are told the hospital will shut down the machine that keeps their loved ones alive because there's no hope and they don't just get the memo and insist they can't. They search for crazy ways to heal incurable diseases, everything as long as there's hope, they dig into the dirt to pull out people who were buried under a building crash and keeps on digging even when there's no hope to find them alive.
My family experienced it, losing someone and refusing to just accept it at first.
Credits, when it's due we have some people that accepts death calmly... but they're considered uncommon.
This is of course a story and in the story Horikoshi wanted Shouto to save the day so no one else could do something but, for me, Rei's attempt at cooling Touya, which is impossible from the start because Rei just has nowhere near enough power, is much more my cup of tea than Enji's 'okay, nothing can be done'.
What's more BNHA is not a story of a consequential series of facts that happened to real people.
It's a story split in more arcs, in which the characters are tasked with accomplishing something.
In Enji's specific case he was given an arc of atonement toward the family members he had hurt. His role as a character is this, in the same way as Luke has to face and 'save' Darth Vader.
Narratively speaking, Touya being a mass murder who doesn't want to repent and wants to ruin his life and murder him is an obstacle in Enji's arc of atonement to his whole family (which includes Touya).
In the same vein Darth Vader being a giant size mass murder who destroyed planets and lead an army that invades them and put people under a fascist regime is also an obstacle. Dath Vader too doesn't want to redeem himself, he asked Luke to join him, he told him if he weren't to join he would try it with his sister.
In real life Enji has the option to say 'who cares, I don't have to atone to someone who's doing me that, actually scratch this, I don't have to atone to anyone, no one is pointing a gun to my head. telling me to do it'.
In real life Luke too has the option to say 'nope, not going there' or 'fine, I'll kill him'.
In the story, that's their role and if they try to escape, they're failing their role. It's game over. The story can tempt them because that's what are stories for but they've to overcome temptation.
The real question in Enji's arc is WHAT CAN HE DO TO ATONE TO HIS FAMILY FOR WHAT HE DID?
WHAT CAN HE DO TO ATONE TO TOUYA?
If we start to say 'no, but afterward, Touya did this so Enji doesn't have to atone to him anymore...' we abort Enji's quest.
If anything what Touya does afterward enriches Enji's quest because it made it more difficult. It's not much of a quest with Rei and Fuyumi, who basically immediately say okay, but in itself is not much of a quest with Natsuo either as he just say 'stay away from me'.
It's Touya who's the challenge and, at the same time, the consequence of what Enji did (by the way, I'm keeping this reply specifically about Enji, there's more to say about Touya but that's not the place).
Some people who complain he didn't do enough aren't necessarily Enji haters... they just wanted to see him do even more. I've met some people who wanted HIM to be the one who were to save Touya, not Shouto, they wanted another quest for Shouto.
Sometimes you just want a character to get a perfect score in his arc. Each of us is different.
Enji's actions had drastic consequences for his family but, at first, no real negative consequence of equal value for him.
Enji's sorry now and I think it's beautiful because in real life too few people get sorry about it. But in order to atone for what he did, he had to narratively pay a huge price. That's why he gets the harsher ending out of all the Heroes. Because he had all the power in his family, the family he was meant to protect, that it was his duty to protect, and instead he hurt it beyond belief.
For some the price he paid might feel enough. For others it will never be enough. It's not biased, it's life.
If I hadn't misunderstood you, you wouldn't forgive a murderer. Another person can chose not to forgive an abuser, even if said abuser says he's sorry.
I'll also clarify that I don't think Enji is forcing his presence upon Touya. I'm sure Touya wanted him to be there. I've said this in another meta. Horikoshi foreshadowed Touya wanted more time to talk with his family, Touya said he wanted his family to see him, his heart speeding up is clearly a sign the fact his father is willing to keep on coming to see him touches him, the fact he ultimately talked to Shouto showed he was willing to engage... but again between you and me is a matter of different experiences.
I've read way too many takes of people saying he's forcing himself upon his son to assume my take is the one of the majority.
Yes, undoubtedly there are many bad takes on Enji, fanfictions love to pin on him crimes he hadn't committed... or, on the opposite, completely absolve him saying Rei was actually the abuser and he was a poor victim and a perfect dad (some even went and blamed one or all the kids).
There's extremes in everything, bad takes are among both his lovers and his haters, and there's not really just two sides of the fandom, there's not my part of the fandom and yours.
I've noticed that too many think if you like one character you can't like the other, if you like Touya you can't like Shouto or Enji, if you like Shouto you can't like Enji or Touya.
In truth we can like multiple characters or just one, we can agree on something and disagree on something else and our opinions can shift, change.
I find all the Todoroki characters EQUALLY interesting.
I don't find Enji boring or hate him as a character.
And I think that understanding his culture (or trying to as I'm not sure I've a good grasp of it) and where he comes from help to understand him and why he does things a certain way or why he doesn't get punished in a certain way, which doesn't mean you can't like him even if you don't understand Japanese culture or that you can't hate him even if you understand it.
And funny enough in this blog I often end up talking about him instead than all the other Todorokis... it's not a complain it's just it feels a little odd.
Said all this, yes, I'm open to talk if people are willing to be polite about it. Comparing opinions, even different opinions, broad perspective and improve the understanding of a story. Though as I said at the start, I'll soon be away for a while so I might end up finding hard to do it until I'm back home.
Hey, first of all, sorry for not putting that wall of text under a cut. I've been away from tumblr in a while so looks like I forgot⊠--' And thanks for the polite reply, I really do enjoy these debates.
Loooong reply under the cut!
PSPSPSPSPS NEW ANIMATIC GO WATCH
Crazy because Enji didn't even wrong Touya, the only child he abused was Shouto, Touya was nothing more than spoilt brat and nothing more or less.
Anon, yes, yes he did. Enji absolutely wronged Touya.
As Touya's father, Enji had a duty to care for him and help him whenever he needed him. But in spite of Touya's desperate and very obvious calls for his attention, Enji refused to spend time with him ("all I can show anyone is the world of heroes"). Instead he foisted him on Rei - who also didn't properly look after him by her own admission.
Touya might look like a spoilt kid on the outside since he was lacking for nothing materially (huge house, good food, excellent education) but the truth is that his basic emotional needs weren't met: he felt abandoned, he didn't feel like he mattered to his father, he was having an existential crisis as a kid. That's emotional neglect. Emotional neglect can have a severe impact on a kid's mental and physical health - which was obviously the case for Touya, who was continuously self-harming.
In addition to that, after Shouto was born Enji started violently training him against his will and brutalizing his wife when she would try to stop him. We know Touya at least saw him abuse Shouto. So while Touya wasn't a direct victim of the physical abuse, he witnessed it. That's an extremely toxic environment to grow up him, and amounts to psychological abuse. Children can't feel safe in a home where their helpless relatives are being put through the grinder by their own father.
Finally, Enji picking an heir and choosing to focus solely on him and his development is the kind of favoritism that is considered abusive, since it seriously hurt his other kids' sense of self-worth - especially Touya's. It's extremely damaging for a parent to shower one kid with attention (no matter how terrible that attention actually was) and ignore the others' desperate attempts to please them.
I mean, look at this:
Here Enji's son is telling him word for word that he thinks Enji isn't glad that he was born. He's in visible distress and hurting himself. It couldn't be more obvious that he needs his father to reassure him and care for him. That's Enji's duty, and he failed to do it. He failed Touya.
Anon, I think you sent me this ask because you saw that I'm an Endeavor fan. You know that I read him with compassion, so you know I'm not trying to hate on him here. I'm also absolutely not trying to excuse the crimes Dabi will later commit - I do not believe that this backstory excuses anything and I hold him responsible for his own actions.
What I believe is that understanding that Enji did wrong Touya as a kid is essential to understanding MHA as a whole. And more than that, it's important to get it in order to be able to help families like the Todoroki's in real life - and that includes men like Enji (*).
(*) Because the tragedy of their story is that Enji did love Touya, but was too fucked up himself to give up his obsession and didn't know how to handle his own emotions let alone his son's. He was obviously extremely distressed by the situation which was only making him even more abusive. At this point, the family needed outside help.
I really do think showing this story to young boys in a Shonen magazine is a good way to teach them how NOT to act or how to recognize abusive behaviors even in people who aren't necessarily malicious.
Rip todoroki family you wouldâve hated celebrity gossip columns
Did Enji atone to Touya (and his family) and stepped up on his role as a father?
Boku no Hero Academia has a grave 'flaw'. The fact that's strongly tied to Japanese culture and Buddhism makes it a very interesting work but also makes it a hardly international work because way too many cultural things are left unexplained because they're assumed to be a given. Only they're not when the work is read by foreign readers. And this lead to confusion.
The Todoroki plotline is an example of this.
In the west many feel Enji did nothing for Touya or did too little because the little he did is a given in the west. The point is... it's not a given in Japan. In Japan is a BIG DEAL. So let's go though it.
This post is interesting and well-researched, so thank you for putting in the effort to try and understand the character.
That said, I disagree with several points. I hope you're open to discussion? If you're not feel free to ignore this reply.
đ„ Happy birthday, Endeavor! đ„
Happy Birthday Endeavor! [insp]
Just passing by to share the cover of my zine ~ and try to be more active here uvu
Anyways I'm trying to forget abt twitter being mean to me, it keeps suspending my accounts for no reason and its stressing me out
Also i dont like him in blue so i made endeavor wear black weee
Boku No Hero Academia Light Novel Vol. 3Â âAnother U.A. Questâ Official Fantasy AU Story
The Boku No Hero Academia Vol. 3 Light novel comes with a long chapter that is based off of the popularity poll art and the Season 2 Ending 2 sequence featuring the characters in a fantasy setting. The story is probably one of many since it does not end and seems to set the stage for an epic continuation! One of the most notable things to highlight from this story is that Kirishima is officially revealed to be Bakugouâs dragon who has committed to serving under Bakugou since he lost a duel against him. I translated the entire chapter from the light novel, so please enjoy this epic prologue~Â
Keep reading
"Nice move you got there"
"Wanna be my partner? Not too late to say yes"
They say no
*Smirks*
Oh My Godddd!! They made Endeavor more of a smooth flirt than he should be capable of!
(On the other hand it's that irritating egotical boaster trope where hes repeating how he told Shoto making him his sidekick one day as if tha would be the greatest thing(not the rest of Shoto stuff just that one line alone to see base characterization))
It's a very different thing with Shouto. Shouto is supposed to be his successor and he is his son. Of course, Enji wants him to be his sidekick! He lives through his kids, it feels natural that Shouto must be his sidekick one day
But look. Horikoshi says that Endeavor's main issue is the inferiority complex. Which means he feels inferior. He is insecure. Which, of course, can manifest through boasting. "I can't be the worst, I must be the best, everyone actually wants to be my sidekick". I can see him *suggesting* this to someone either jokingly or seriously but I can't possibly imagine him being ok and smirking at a clear "no". Does he look like a man that won't throw a tantrum when he is refused something? I know he changed but I can't believe he wouldn't grumble or say something like "I was joking anyway, it's not like I need you" (that would make it more ship-y, point taken, but more in-character)
That's my opinion idk. If Horikoshi wants an inferiority complex to be his base characterization then Enji must act like it. He can't be both confident and insecure. You can say it's only about All Might but that's shallow and lazy. Would Endeavor be a happy person if All Might didn't exist? I don't think that is true since the problem isn't in AM, it's that Enji isn't a "natural", a "superhero". His hatred and competitiveness towards AM is a symptom, not the disease
That is why that scene annoys me so much. Who is it for? It's not in character! Omg I am a ĐŽŃŃĐœŃла about this đ (a killjoy perhaps)
Personally I think people really can have both a superiority and inferiority complex, and in fact they often go together, from experience? It's just what happens when you keep judging your worth by comparing yourself to others. I think early manga Endeavor did feel superior - you can sort of feel it from the way he carries himself around others or talks about himself, etc. He boasts but also he's not wrong - he just knows his ability.
So like the inferiority complex for me was about All Might specifically, because he was the only he saw as above him (and now there's also Deku). The way I see it, his base characteristic isn't that feeling of inferiority, which is contextual, but rather his feelings of inadequacy and insecurities. Or even more precisely, his fear/disgust of his own weaknesses (which originally stems from his trauma, his disgust/shame/horror at his father's corpse and failure). In order to not feel weak (fragile, human), Endeavor needed to be perfect (super-human), and All Might was the everyday reminder that no, he's just another hero. He can die and become insignificant.
I think if All Might didn't exist, Endeavor would have been Number One, and he wouldn't have that terrible inferiority complex - he'd probably feel superior to his fellow heroes - but he probably still would have felt insecure like hell, like he's not a good enough Number One, and felt upset at every small perceived failure (and like if he ever felt threatened the inferiority complex would rear its head again).
Back to the added scene, I don't think it was OOC because I really didn't interpret it as a rejection (I agree Endeavor wouldn't handle a real rejection with a smile, like lol he's not that good). I really don't think his mid-battle job-offer was meant seriously. Like he knows Eraserhead already has a job?? As his son's teacher, no less. Why would he want to join his agency? And if Enji really was making a serious proposal he'd have brought it up after the fight.
No, this was just battle banter, like he does with Hawks. He was joking. He was enjoying the team-up with Eraser so he gave him a kinda cheeky compliment. And Aizawa's response wasn't even snarky - like he didn't even say he wasn't interested in being Enji's sidekick, he said he had lousy students to take care off (so Aizawa was throwing shade at 1A here not even Endeavor, but it was also clearly very much not serious). Idk it's like when you say "marry me" to someone after they've done you a favor, and they answer "no thanks I'm married to my job" or something. It's banter.
Endeavor's smirk for me just shows he really enjoyed Aizawa's answer actually. Because of course he'd appreciate that his son's teacher cares about his students. And Enji's also come to truly respect and feel some affection for Deku and Bakugou too, so it probably feels good to know him and Eraser are on the same page. I think for me that was really the point of this scene: just showing two of the main "origin trio" mentors teaming up and bonding over their kids.
Happy Birthday Endeavor! [in.sp]
bnha dump from twitterÂ
[Failure]
Drew this in reaction to Chapter 350! If Touya heard Enji call him an almost perfect creation, I get that he wasnât ecstatic about returning.
fun fact, the font used for this is called âI know a ghostâ