“Oppression is the systematic mistreatment, exploitation, and lowering in status of a group (or groups) of people by another group (or groups). It occurs when a group holds power over others in society by maintaining control over social institutions, and society’s laws, rules, and norms“
By this definition, cishet aces/aros & cis aroaces are not oppressed. “Allos” or whoever don’t cause the “systemic mistreatment, exploitation, and lowering in status of [cishet aces/aros]”. Also, key word here. Systemic. S y s t e m i c.
Cishet Asexual people feeling alone and being called embarrassing on the internet is not systemic mistreatment
“If an asexual person agrees to marry, her lack of physical attraction for her husband does not absolve her of having a sexual relationship with him (1 Corinthians 7:3) unless he is in full agreement of having a celibate marriage.” —Compelling Truth
This is more misogyny than anything else. It’s not proof of systemic exploitation of cishet aces.
“Asexual people often experience what is called corrective sexual assault, a hate-crime where people are raped because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. These crimes often occur when the victim explains that they are asexual, and the assaulter wants to ‘show’ the victims that they are wrong.” —Genevieve Jeter, UT Daily Beacon
Corrective rape is made for and by lesbians, we’ve been over this.
“Heterosexuals: (a) expressed more negative attitudes toward asexuals (i.e., prejudice); (b) desired less contact with asexuals; and © were less willing to rent an apartment to (or hire) an asexual applicant (i.e., discrimination). Moreover, of all the sexual minority groups studied, asexuals were the most dehumanized (i.e., represented as “less human”).” —MacInnis and Hodson study
That’s because so many cishet asexuals lead with being asexual instead of being cishet. If cishet asexual people said “hey I’m straight I just don’t experience sexual attraction” which is true, probably none of this would happen.
“By deviating from the typical, average, or normal sexual interests, sexual minorities are considered substandard and thus easy targets for disdain and prejudice.” —Gordon Hodson, Psychology Today
Oppression doesn’t have to be violent or about legal discrimination to count.
Let’s go back to the dictionary definition, shall we. ““Oppression is the systematic mistreatment, exploitation, and lowering in status of a group (or groups) of people by another group (or groups). It occurs when a group holds power over others in society by maintaining control over social institutions, and society’s laws, rules, and norms.” Systemic. Systemic. S y s t e m i c. When one group holds power over the other. That means that oppression does have to be about one group being more powerful than another group, which means that violence and legal discrimination are included in that definition of oppression.
Under this definition, being refused housing is not oppression, having limited places to gather is not oppression, and children’s books never featuring gay identity is not oppression.
How is being refused housing not oppression? Being refused housing for being LGBT+ is due to a “group (cishet people) holding power over [another group (lgbt+ people)] by maintaining control over social instituations”? Having limited places to gather isn’t oppression? It isn’t “lowering [the] status of a group”? Children’s books never featuring gay characters is not oppression, I agree. However, the lack of LGBT representation in the media is the result of hetero and cis-normativity and due to cishet people “holding power” over LGBT people so it comes back to a kind of oppression in the end.
If you think there should be some kind of ranking system to see who is the most damaged by oppression, you would have to examine each individual that enters the community. You would have to exclude gay men that live their lives practically unaffected by negative consequences due to their sexuality. Even then, people are oppressed in ways that aren’t as obvious to you, perhaps.
This is completely misunderstanding exclusionists arguments, lol. Our argument has always been that the LGBT+ community is for people who are oppressed by specifically homophobia and transphobia and its subsets biphobia and nbphobia. A gay man is oppressed by homophobia. A cishet ace/aro isn’t.
This argument says that people who don’t have the absolute worst problems don’t matter.
No, it doesn’t. It just says they’re not LGBT. Ace/aro people matter, and deserve to have a community. The cishet ones don’t belong in the LGBT community though and there’s really no reason why there can’t be a separate ace/aro community besides the fact that ya’ll refuse to create one.
“LGBT” has never fully encompassed the actual makeup of the community it entails.
How does this prove cishet aces/aros and cis aroaces are LGBT+? Again, the LGBT community is for people who experience homophobia and transphobia (and their subsets biphobia and nbphobia).
, establishing ‘queer’’s reputation as a gay slur.”
Exactly. A gay slur. A slur used against people attracted to the same gender. A slur that is not used against cishet aces/aros or cisaroaces. Glad we can agree.
And if you want to use existing definitions to say cishet asexuals are straight, then here you go:
conventional in sexual behaviour; heterosexual —Oxford English Dictionary
So cishet aces aren’t conventional in sexual behavior because ya’ll don’t have sex? But anyway, the word heterosexual is right there. If a cishet ace/aro is either heterosexual or heteroromantic they’re straight. End of story.
The LGBT+ community has historically focused on the rights of gay, and to a lesser extent lesbian, people. This does not mean that this is a good thing, or that there are not other people within the wider LGBT+ umbrella that require assistance with problems other than homophobia.
Trans people helped found the LGBT community. Cishet aces/aros didn’t. The LGBT community is for people who are oppressed under homophobia and transphobia and their subsets. “Aphobia” isn’t included.
Gay people used to exclude trans people, too.
Trans people helped found the LGBT+ community. Some LGBT people being transphobic doesn’t change that. The LGBT community has always been just that, the LGBT community. Trans people and gay/bi people were together from the beginning. See this post.
Q: Will allowing cisgendered heterosexual/heteromantic people into the “community” be damaging?
A: It depends. But it’s already happened. And it’s not exactly relevant.
“It’s not exactly relevant.” It’s not relevant if cishet people, people who oppress the entire LGBT community being in the community is harmful? I have no words for how cruel that is.
If you’re in a campus club for LGBTQIA+ people, it’s likely that your club welcomes “allies.” These are generally straight people that want to help or learn. The majority of “LGBT” related organizations try to include straight allies in some way because one of their goals is to advance the position of their community in society, and advancing their position relies on having straight people care about them.
I don’t know how to explain that this is completely different from what you cishet aces/aros and cis aroaces are doing. A good straight ally will never claim to be anything but a straight ally. A straight ally will not take resources that do not belong to them away from LGBT people. A good straight ally will not tell LGBT people to shut up about their sexual/romantic attraction because “ew gross”. Cishet aces/aros on the other hand want to use LGBT specific resources and want LGBT people to shut up about our attraction because it grosses you guys out.
Another argument is that cishet asexual people will steal resources of which they aren’t worthy.
If a queer scholarship receives an application from a cishet asexual person, and the scholarship is not looking to provide resources for cishet asexuals, they will simply reject the application.
Exactly. Cishet aces/aros will take LGBT specific resources away from LGBT people. That’s a bad thing.
As you said above, the majority of LGBT organizations include straight allies (in some capacity and not as part of the community). You really think that LGBT scholarships are going to be able to say no to cishet aces/aros that easily? That LGBT homeless shelters or hotlines are going to be able to turn away cishet aces/aros that easily? That ya’ll will shut up about “aphobia” for a second and let actual LGBT people access LGBT resources? I don’t think so.
Ideologically and practically it doesn’t make sense to say “asexuals are not part of the queer/GSM/MOGAI community.”
You haven’t proven that at all. And just in case you didn’t see it before, I’ll say it again. The LGBT community was formed by and for those who experience oppression due to homophobia and/or transphobia and their subsets such as biphobia and nbphobia. Even if asexual/aromantic people were oppressed, they are not oppressed by homophobia and/or transphobia or any of their subsets. Therefore they don’t belong in the LGBT community since they don’t fit into what the community was made for.
TLDR: This is all a mess and still does not prove or give any good reasons why cishet aces/aros & cis aroaces should be allowed into the LGBT community.
