[voice of a person who’s never watched it but loves haterisms] you should yap more abt D20 and the rat grinders and kipperlilly and the horrible terrible ending
Hi candle!! I love you and whenever you send asks that allow me to ramble about nonsense I care way too much about. I'm literally about to write a whole essay about this (bc it’s so much. I’m truly not kidding when I say this makes the entire season fall apart) so if you want a tldr: just look at these two posts or you can listen to the authors of those posts talk about fhjy/the rat grinders/kipperlilly for 2 hrs
Cw for discussions of grooming, mainly in the section titled “the kipperlilly of it all” but there are references throughout
Disclaimer that I haven't watched any of junior year since it aired (and if I ever say that I'm rewatching junior year something has gone horrifically wrong and you need to call for help/put me down. I'm not joking) and hating keeps the memory strong but not that strong so some of my details might be wrong. I’ve put links w/ transcriptions/better elaboration where I think is necessary tho
Also, it’s really hard to explain 45+ hrs worth of dnd live play I watched 2 yrs ago so feel free to ask me any further questions and sorry in advance if this is hard to follow!
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The Story
The very basic premise of fantasy high (fh) is “dnd high school” where the central setting is an adventuring school where students learn to become adventurers. Fantasy high junior year (fhjy) is the 3rd season taking place in this universe following these students. Okay I think that’s truly all the fh context you need
Before talking about into how the rat grinders (aka trg) are failed by forces beyond the story I think it’s important to establish that they fail even from a more casual “taking-canon-as-it-is” perspective
When the rat grinders are introduced, in episode 3 of the season, they’re clearly set up as a rival party and foils to our main characters, the bad kids (tbk). Not only is their party makeup the exact same (fighter, barbarian, wizard, bard, cleric, and rogue) but trg are literally gender bent w/ personalities (kind of) that reflect tbks. This paralleling is apparent enough that multiple npcs point out that kipperlilly copperkettle (klck)(a type-a overachieving teenage girl type who I love dearly) is what riz (tbks rogue) could’ve been
Eventually, trg move from being school antagonists when they’re revealed to be working with the season’s big bad (bbeg), one of their teachers (porter). Porter’s ultimate goal is to harness to the power of a corrupted rage goddess to turn himself into a god. In order to do so he imbues ppl with “rage-stars” which magically heighten emotions and make ppl more murderous/violent (think cursed amulets). The process of being rage-starred includes killing a person whereupon they’re given the choice to live w/ eternal or eternal death (since revivification spells won’t work). I don’t think it’s necessary to point out that “choosing” something when the other choice is death isn’t real consent, but I will anyway :). I think you can see where this is going. Trg, teenagers might I remind you, “choose” to be rage-starred while working for porter which is why they’re as violent and mean towards tbk as they are. Which is all good and fine for porter, but what reason do trg have?
Trg’s motivation for working with porter and, occasionally, being mean towards tbk comes from a jealousy towards tbk. Trg perceive the tbk as being advantaged by the school due to their tragic backstories which give them connections to world-saving quests, whereas trg have none and are relatively normal adventurers offered much more mundane quests. The most important example here is that kipperlilly is jealous of riz’s dead dad bc he died to the bbeg of season 1, giving riz a “plot-hook” for that seasons conflict. Rather than do mundane quests, which still include risking their life btw, trg killed rats behind the school and are, horrified noise, xp grinders. It’s all very meta and funny, tbk are main characters while trg are npcs, so they turn to xp grinding. Lol. Eventually porter recruits trg in sophomore year (<- this is the nice phrasing; we’ll get into the grooming later) by bringing higher lvl enemies into the woods for trg to get the last blow and thus the xp. This is a lot of set up but I promise this part (for some godforsaken reason) is really important
And, well, I say it’s trg motivation but it’s mainly kipperlilly’s motivation. We don’t know why the other members went along with porter’s plan, which, is a real mark against the storytelling of the season! Porter is reserved for being the twist villain meaning we spend most of the season dealing w/ trg while never learning their deal. In general, there are very few direct and meaningful interactions between trg and tbk, which is incredibly strange! Some players, like emily axford (my beloved) and ally beardsley, spent time interacting w/ their parallels and got nothing out of it. During the finale emily rolls a 30 on a performance check with the promise of it coming into play later and nothing happens! Not only is this bad dming (call me crazy but I think players should be rewarded for investigating and interacting with major antagonists) it’s also just boring. I want to understand who trg are and learn who they were before they got rage-starred bc it makes the story more interesting to have villains that feel like real characters. Additionally, we get small glimpses of who trg were before they got rage-starred and it’s deeply compelling! They used to be the “high-five heroes” (isn’t that such a cute name?), their metal bard used to play the ukulele, their wizard used to be a nerd who got buff over the summer.
These are compelling details that not only show who the kids used to be before they got rage-starred but also makes use as the fact they exist as character foils. In this I can see where they used to be like tbk and think about what made them different but there isn’t enough of it bc trg are kept so separate from the audience. I just don’t understand the point of making trg parallels if the story was never going to engage w/ them as such
Because in the end trg aren’t treated better than any other enemy tbk fight (which is a whole other issue w/ the structure of d20 and dnds existence as a combat ttrpg but). When the final battle comes trg are killed as indiscriminately as the nameless dragons the ep prior with basically no attempts to interact with them. The fact that trg been acting under the effect of rage-stars this whole time is, also, never acknowledged. Instead, the cast laughs at their incompetence bc lvl grinding left them unprepared for actual battle. Tbk killing trg is truly the last we get to see of them and after the battle when all of them (minus kipperlilly bc fuck her ig) get revived w/o the rage-star they’re immediately just niceys :). No lingering emotions about being rage-starred or killed by your classmates or having your other party member/close friend left for dead, isn’t that great storytelling?
When most of our final interaction w/ trg is focused on their inexperience rather than anything to do w/ rage or parallels it leaves their purpose in the story even less clear. Were they just characters bc brennan wanted to poke fun at exp lvling? It’s hard to conclude otherwise when everything about them is seemingly boiled down to this one point. Their motivation is a lack of motivation, their ultimate flaw was that they didn’t care enough to put in the work to go on real quests and I think that’s just plain boring! Why even show who trg were pre-rage-stage, even paralleling them to tbk, if they just existed to make a quick joke at xp grinders?
It’s baffling and a waste of potential on the most basic story lvl which, of course, does nothing to speak on the themes the season’s finale completely demolishes
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The Themes
Or, hi leftist man! Where's the structural critique in your ostensibly leftist work? Where is it? Where’d it go?
For context, I'm not just randomly asking for insightful political commentary from some random dnd live play (tho I think it'd be cool if every ttrpg live-play did that), brennan loves talking about how all his big bads are actually capitalism or the church or some other acceptably hateable institution. This is one of fh’s most famous moments and one of their other shows literally has the American Dream as the bbeg so ! I don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to assume that there might be some deconstruction of the US education system in a season centered around school. And I mean, brennan’s fans called him a “decolonial philosopher” for this season so pardon me if I'm expecting too much
With that being said, looking at trg on a more thematic lvl only makes the season worse!
Starting at the most basic lvl, trg existence as character foils. The point of having as such close parallels (and parallels in general) is to highlight who your main characters could’ve been under different circumstances which is almost universally ignored when it comes to trg. In a more coherent story, which was interested in structural critique, the differences both parties had in their school experience would not just boil down to “haha these guys are xp grinders” but extend into commentary on schooling as a whole. That trg (cough kipperlilly cough) are unable to see past their jealousy to realize that tbk’s “privilege” in the system hurts them (the season literally starts w/ them saving the world only to receive no thanks and having to go to class the next day) is the perfecting jumping off point for critique. Similarly, just as trg don’t see the ways the system disadvantaged tbk, tbk miss the ways trg got fucked over by the school and that their lvl farming was in reaction to that. What are trg supposed to do when they don’t have immediate connections to a Real adventuring quest? What’s the point of putting themselves in danger for low-level quests when they can gain the same amount of experience (points, haha) from killing rats? You can say it’s on trg to put in the effort but the fact both avenues come w/ the same reward is a failure of the system. Yet, somehow, this is seen as a moral failing on the part of trg and what makes them antagonists. We come to this conclusion despite the fact there’s the real world parallel of schools encouraging students to brute-force memorize their way through school rather than coming to any kind of deeper comprehension. But no, xp lvling bad
Another important theme (as you might notice from the rage-stars and a corrupted rage goddess) is the malleability of rage which, could, work hand in hand with the critiques of schooling. The lack of adult support in trg’s is equally at the forefront here. It was glossed over in the story summary, but it cannot be overstated that rat grinders were did all their villainous actions while being rage-starred bc of porter, their teacher. We know porter’s influence directly made them worse through the glimpses we get of trg as the high-five heroes. Kipperlilly in particular is shown, even pre-rage-star, to have anger issues that she worked through with the school counselor (who, sidenote, literally lives w/ and got his job bc of tbk)(so probably not the best person to be counseling her) but she was never violent until after the rage-star. Kipperlilly’s file explicitly states there was a change in her behavior during sophomore year, around the time she got rage-starred. Don’t ask me how the counselor never did anything about this, idk either. Her rage was intensified bc that’s what rage-stars and, in some ways, the school system does. High school is literally a pressure cooker where you’re expected to stay on top of 5 different things at once while also navigating your personal life and identity. Additionally, kipperlilly’s jealousy towards tbk is very real to the way that school, and teachers especially, often pit children against each other. I can only imagine this is doubly true in an adventuring school where only so many ppl can save the world each semester
Kipperlilly is, in some ways, correct to be angry about this (the dad thing is admittedly fucked but that’s what makes her interesting and fun). It isn’t fair that her party doesn’t receive the same opportunities as tbk and spend hours grinding for levels in the woods. Her error isn’t that she’s angry but that her anger is directed towards individuals rather than the actual power system. Rage shaped by negative forces (rage-stars, porter, the school system) isn’t a good thing but it can also be used for good. There exists an uncorrupted version of the rage goddess just as there’s a rage that can be a force for change when sparked correctly
However, the story doesn’t attempt to deal with any of this. It doesn’t want to talk about the artificial dichotomy between these two parties (orchestrated by the adult man porter who has power over all of them I might add) and deconstruct it. What it wants to do is have a final battle which completely throws all of the above out the window
Rather than engaging in any of themes about parallels or rage or the school system tbk just kill trg (as I’ve mentioned above). They’re also really mean during this fight, like kind of disgustingly mean. Like when one of them said he’d skin a girl and turn her into a rug he can lose his virginity on top of. Or screaming to cut the head off the wizard to make sure he can’t be revivified. Tbc, this isn’t me having a moral problem with the violence (the rug thing is kinda yikes tho) but the tbk are this violent w/o rage-stars destroys any other message the season might’ve been trying to send. If you wanted to say the ultimate theme/message was that giving into senseless rage is bad (I would first point to porter’s influence over trg and existence of rage-stars as proof trg didn’t really choose, but after that) I would ask how are tbk any different? In a world where trg worst crime is killing like 2 ppl (legitimately, that’s all they’ve really this season except sometimes be mean) I don’t think they’re the ones representing senseless rage! Not only does this battle not engage w/ any kind of structural force in a meaningful way it renders any other theme incoherent
(The fact the potential good side of rage is never addressed/fully explored is personally upsetting to me bc tbk have a barbarian on their team w/ an incredibly interesting and nuanced relationship to rage and how it intersects with his identity as a half-orc adopted by gnomes!!! Completely unnecessary to mention but I love gorgug and this truly was his season even if it sucked ass okay)
It's genuinely insulting how every single theme gets thrown out the window in the name of senseless violence in the finale. A season of fhjy that attempted to be consistent with its themes exists, really easily! Like imagine a world where trg (bc of porter) and the corrupted goddess represent a misplaced senseless anger. Rather than be angry at the school system as a whole that doesn’t provide them with the proper adventuring resources (i.e. quests) they instead focus that anger on individuals, tbk. Tbk, on the other hand, represent a more reconstructive anger. Anger at the school system that fucked over bad kids and rat grinders alike! A system that offered no support to the bad kids when it came to multiclassing, neurodivergence, monetary troubles, or even the fact one of them got expelled because a single teacher didn’t like her. A system that didn’t catch on when trg had notable changes in their behavior, which allowed porter so much control over them. Then, in some kind of final battle, tbk and trg coming together to harness that rage as motivation to change the school system rather than just damning kids to hell
I just think it's crazy that trg are failed by every single adult in their lives (from seemingly non-existent parents to the other teachers to the guidance counselor) and it’s not meant to be commentary on kids that slip through the cracks in the US education system? It’s not even a moment of “this is who your main characters could’ve been if they weren’t supported”? Because, actually, it was never about systems at all. Instead, it was about how being lazy and angry is bad except for when our main characters do it
Trg aren’t bad kid parallels bc brennan wanted to say smth beautiful and true about kids failed by the school system in different ways or even how rage can be beneficial when harnessed correctly, they’re just meant to be gender bent evil funhouse versions of tbk who deserve to die for being lazy; for being failed by the system
How thematically thrilling. How leftist of you.
What’s even worse is that I don’t expect flawless storytelling from d20. Most of the time I barely trust it to handle its own themes well (norman takamori I’ll get to you)(and a court of candy… just head in hands)(also neverafter, wow they’re really shit at this) but truly everything about the season up to the finale was pointing in this direction. Egg on my face for wanting coherent themes in seasons that set themselves up to tackle complex topics I suppose!
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The kipperlilly of it all
Kipperlilly copperkettle was preyed upon and groomed by porter and the only crime she ever committed was being an annoying teenage girl with anger issues and for that she deserves eternal damnation, apparently. There are going to be a lot of links in this section bc it’s not even funny how textual this is
When we learn about kipperlilly’s anger issues and the motivations for trg (cough kipperlilly) it’s because tbk stole her file from the school counselor. Not even touching on how unfair it is to pass moral judgement on kl for the thoughts she privately expressed in therapy (IE THE DEAD DAD THING) it’s also basically stated porter also went through her file and sought her out specifically bc of her anger issues (<- this entire thread is a really great example of the textual grooming porter did of all trg from targeting to isolation). Because, of course he did, kipperlilly’s the perfect victim for him. Not only is she already angry but she’s so desperate for approval to become a world-saving adventuring. She’s a high-achieving kid whose parents are just run of the mill townsfolk, of course she would latch onto anyone saying that’s she special or promising greatness. Porter knew this which is why he “recruited” trg and started w/ kipperlilly
As mentioned previously, kipperlilly isn’t violent until after she gets rage-starred, and when she gets rage-starred it’s different to the rest of trg. Rather than being forced to choose b/t eternal rage or death (already a fucked up decision for 15 y/os to make) kipperlilly undergoes a different version of the ritual where she “willingly” accepted the star. A star she would’ve never accepted (on account of her being a non-violent person prior) if not for porter’s influence. Additionally, porter needed a willing victim for his plan to work at all. She was, quite literally, groomed into “wanting it” bc that’s what porter needed. That’s what’s stated in the show itself
The reveal that kipperlilly was “willing” happens quite literally as she dies when brennan says “when you ask for it and accept it willing, it's a very different ritual.”
I could say about a million different things here but, I’ll contain myself to saying that all of trg were groomed, to be perfectly clear, but kipperlilly especially was
These are important facts to highlight bc the fact that kipperlilly “chose” her rage-star is why the rest of trg get revived and she doesn’t. Kipperlilly, canonically (bc there are some deaths the fandom likes to argue over) killed just as many ppl as the rest of trg and only ever while under the influence of the rage-star. The only thing that separates kipperlilly from the rest of her party, the only thing you could use to justify leaving her in hell, is that she “chose” to be rage-starred (and that she was mean sometimes but come on). Saying kipperlilly deserved to die bc she was groomed into choosing a rage-star is, by no exaggeration, asking for it rhetoric. Brennan literally says it. Everything done to kipperlilly by tbk at that point, whether it was justified or not, is forgiven by the narrative bc she “wanted” it. Not once, ever, is the reality of porter’s power over kipperlilly brought up. Not when she’s alive, not when she’s dead. We extend situational sympathy to an adult who chose a rage-star over death but nothing for kipperlilly
This is why I say kipperlilly gets victim-blamed by the narrative. Because even though she was manipulated by a teacher specifically for her undiagnosed anger issues, to be “willing” the fact she “asked for it” is used to justify everything done to her
I straight up don’t understand how you can read kipperlilly’s story as anything other than one of grooming and abuse which makes the way ppl talk about and treat mostly disgusting
I don’t believe this is some kind of fringe reading that somehow managed to slip by unnoticed by everyone playing. For one, brennan, who would’ve written or at least known about all of this, is a fully grown adult man who should understand what grooming is when he sees it in his own story. Secondly, he’s explicitly compared kipperlilly to tracy flick from election (1999), another teenager groomed by her teacher. He knew, on some level, what was happening and completely ignored it. If you’re going to bring up themes like authorial abuse and grooming, I think it’s your responsibility as a storyteller to treat those subjects with the respect they deserve and, at the very least, not promote harmful ideas about abuse victims
I dont even think the story needed to be radically changed to deal with it appropriately. I just wanted any kind of acknowledgement from anyone that kipperlilly was a teenage girl who was failed by the adults around her and preyed upon and not assign her the same lvl of evil as the guy who groomed her. Just any kind of indication that I wasn't the insane one for picking up on very obvious themes and ideas
The worst part is that I’ve seen d20 be kind to abuse victims, seasons 1 and 2 had tbk redeeming abused teenage villains who went on to be fan-favorites, which makes it all the more frustrating when they refuse to be kind to kipperlilly
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Brennan lee mulligan hated those fucking kids and I hate him
You can say I’m assigning a lot of malice to brennan for no real reason, or that maybe he did intend for trg to be sympathetic, and the players just didn’t pick up on it. I don’t think that excuses how he handled the grooming but they’re fair enough concerns which I counter with post-season interview
In this interview h talks about the villains of the season. Or, more accurately, he talks about porter (who was a twist villain about 5 yrs in the making) for about 2 minutes before spending 6 to talk about trg (cough kipperlilly cough). During those 6 minutes he says that kipperlilly choosing the name high-five heroes for her party was “sinister.”
What.
To be clear, he’s talking about what happened pre-rage-star. He’s talking about freshman kipperlilly, someone who has literally done no wrong, picking a name for her friend group and calling it “sinister”. Notably (as the linked post points out) the tbk also choose their party name on the first day of school and it’s also incredibly generic. So, what about kipperlilly is so uniquely evil that naming her party is considered “sinister”?
The answer is the same reason why the themes are incoherent, the parallels never went anywhere, and kipperlilly was blamed for her very real grooming. The rat grinders aren’t the bad kids so everything they do is inherently bad. It’s as simple as tbk being the heroes and trg being the villains and you don’t need to think harder than that
Trg weren’t evil for killing ppl or giving into rage or anything even remotely related to the themes of the story; they were evil for “following the letter of the law but not the spirit.” Whatever that means, thanks brennan. Really awesome moral story you have there dude
The fact we see glimpses of the high-five heroes or are shown anything the pre-rage-starred rat grinders wasn’t to build sympathy within the audience. It wasn’t so we could see tbk reflected and think about who they are as characters. It wasn’t so we think about deeper themes like the school system or rage or any of that. It was so brennan could talk about how sinister kipperlilly was for choosing a fucking party name. For how sinister it was that she was a teenage girl
And ultimately ! all this does is prove kipperlilly right! The bad kids are given special privilege by the god of the world himself and no one else gets a chance. When tbk like someone every past crime can be forgiven and kindness extends into infinity and when they don’t like someone everything, they do is evil up to and including getting groomed and choosing a party name as a freshman. She was literally proven right by the meta-narrative through brennan’s lack of care (apparently) for any of the actual themes or ideas tackled in the season. If he meant to do or say something otherwise, I would’ve loved to see it present and expanded upon in any kind of meaningful way, either during the show or the years afterwards
It might feel like I’m assigning a lot of blame onto brennan instead of the players, and that’s because I am (in a sense). I don’t think the players are entirely innocent (they also were confronted w/ all the information I’ve given you and refused to treat trg with any respect in the final battle) but they didn’t have the same bird’s eye view that brennan did. From the start brennan knew who trg were, he knew their backstories, the timeline, everything that happened w/ porter and he still facilitated a story which treated trg like none of that existed. He still said kipperlilly “asked for it.” D20 (and fh especially) is big enough that seasons are planned months to years in advance whereas the players are truly reacting in the moment. I believe the players should’ve been more curious about trg but brennan didn’t encourage that and rewarded them (with bits and jokes and funny reactions) for being cruel to trg. Mainly I’m upset that he let the grooming thing go unacknowledged. How do you let that happen? Truly
Anyway, I don't believe in hell, but I do believe brennans going there for what he did to trg and klck in particular. Brennan lee mulligan when I fucking catch you.
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This only barely scratches the surface of how the fandom treated klck btw, bc holy shit was it rancid. Ppl said she was against affirmative action bc she was jealous of riz's dead dad. She's an in-universe minority btw
Wtv, god forbid, you’re a high-achieving teenage girl who maybe killed a couple ppl and was rude and fucked up but mainly needed to listen to “are you satisfied” by marina. #freekipperlilly
Also, it’s not relevant to this specific discussion of trg/klck (bc I needed to leave out like 20 things to not make this literally 5 years long 😭😭😭) but I need everyone to know that kl was in a doomed homoerotic friendship w/ her bsf who she accidentally got killed bc lucy (her bsf) didn’t accept the rage-star. Now imagine her being torn apart by that grief coupled with the fact she’s always had anger issues and lucy was shown to be her opposite, okay, thank you for your time
Anyways don’t u just love when there’s two girls and they’re being so hurt and destroyed by Large Societal Forces but the suffering that matters the Most to both of them is when the hurt is being inflicted by each other <333
ScremWhenYouSeeMe [MOD]: Hey guys my kid is dunking a witch in front of the king today. Would it be okay if I took the day off and just let you starve a bit?
my problem is if i enjoy something enough i will be nitpicking. i Will have things to say about where and how it failed. out of nothing but love straight from my heart. unfortunately this often makes me indistinguishable from a hater who has never experienced joy or kindness. such is the amateur critic's burden.
ZAM: "And um, I was telling him [suasage] about this interesting feeling I've been feeling all day today."
GRAECIE: "Yeah?"
ZAM: "Um, ueah."
ZAM: "It's like in my chest where, I feel all like warm and fuzzy and happy and I keep smiling and, uh, stuff like that."
GRAECIE: [Quiet gasp] "Me too."
ZAM: "Mhm, yeah, yeah, and uh. Well, uh, um, uh. You feel that way too?"
GRAECIE: "Mhm!"
ZAM: "Really?"
GRAECIE: "Since you've woken up, yeah."
ZAM: "Okay... yeah, I-I mean, I-yeah, I-I feel the same way too. Um, yeah. Mhm."
GRAECIE: "Yay!"
ZAM: "Yay. So that's really good."
GRAECIE: "I'm glad because that's a happy feeling."
ZAM: "Yeah, it's a really nice happy feeling and I feel like, um, like my um-like my chest is gonna explode and, but like in a fun way."
GRAECIE: "Oh! Okay, okay. I was gonna say if it was in a bad way-"
ZAM: "Mhm."
GRAECIE: "It-that would be really- that'd be really dangerous. That wouldn't be good, I wouldn't want that."
ZAM: "Mhm, mhm, mhm. Yeah"
GRAECIE: "But I like you happy-"
ZAM: "Thank you-"
GRAEICE: "- that makes me happy."
ZAM: "-I like you happy too, that makes me really happy too."
[Graecie giggles and zam says yay a bunch]
GRAECIE: "I had this crystal and I held it the entire time you were asleep."
ZAM: "Mhm, really?"
GRAECIE: "Mhmm."
ZAM: "Awww."
GRAECIE: "It made me feel a lot better."
here’s this figure that is vulnerable and easily abused and what’s admirable about it is that it doesn’t fight back and it doesn’t try to defend itself and it’s suffering is noble because it just sits there and takes it. pain is beautiful when you surrender to pain, suffering is godly when you don’t question or try to protect yourself and survival is ugly… like it is just me or is anybody else’s fucking skin crawling rn!!
