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Some of my thoughts about Grindeldore in The Secrets of Dumbledore

So, im REALLY obsessed with this movie and i wrote some of my thoughts and i decided put it here.

First of all, english is not my native language, so im so sorry for any mistake, and obviously, in this post there are spoilers. LETS GO

The Restaurant scene

Their smiles kill me btw

I love the restaurant scene for how Gellert insists over and over that it was both planning a revolution, that Albus not only followed him because they were in love, because HE helped make their plans and HE turned his back on them. Phrases like "It was you who said we can reshape the world" and "Committed to me, to US" it makes that clear

I think that Gellert was so angry with Albus because, in his perspective, he went on with his life as if nothing happened and that bothers him, he has so much anger and bitterness in his heart that he doesn't see beyond appearances

He doesn't want Albus to make excuses, he wants the Albus he MET in 1899 in his side , but he hasn't realized of THAT Albus died with Ariana and only at the end does he realize that Albus left his arms forever

And Albus, this is where I asked myself what was his point in being there, did he just want to try and convince Gellert to break the pact or did he want to see if there was a way to deal with this situation without breaking it? Albus doesn't want to let Gellert go either (even though he knows that isn't the Gellert he fell in love with anymore), he wants to save Gellert and try to save what they have.

Gellert was hurt after Albus said "We can free each other", which is why i think he acts so mean to Albus in the rest of the scene (and in the movie!). Gellert loves and cares about the pact, he carried the Troth with him everywhere for about 28 years, that he had it in a chest pocket, that he sacrificed and risked his escape in order to get it back at the start of COG, it's very obvious that. I think he uses the pact all the time because it's a palpable reminder of the one time he felt understood and loved by an equal. He uses it because it makes him feel close to Albus.

This scene was perfect, and I thanks so much to Jude and Mads performace <3

How they talked about the other in the movie

Someone doesnt feels weird the way they talked about the other with another people in the movie? Like, sometimes it feels like their relantionships was not a secret. Gellert explicity admits to his acolites and Kama he knew and was a Dumbledore´s close friend.

I personally think that Gellert doesnt hide their relationship to anyone, he is very pround and selfish about their conextion (another reason for he posibble cares so much about the troth!). But Albus is the contrarian.

He talks about his realantionship but with a few people, talks about it with Thesus but only for convinced him. And says THREE times he loved Gellert (and one of it was to Gellert himself).

ALSO, Gellert and Albus are so obsessed with each other in the movie, like Albus mentions their love every time he can and Gellert have visions about Albus and look at him with the most look of longing have ever see, THEY'RE OBSESSED WITH EACH OTHER AND I LOVE IT!!

For next, my favorite part of the movie

The almost duel

Frist of all, THE SOUNDTRACK OF THS SCENE IS PRECIOUS AND GORGEOUS, thank you James Newton Howard.

And then, can we talk about Gellert's face in this frame and how he trembles at the mere thought of touching Albus after 30 years and realizing he can't hurt him because he still loves him so deeply?

When they put their hands on each other's hearts, Albus keeps his hand outstretched, Gellert presses his hand to Albus's chest as if he wants to hold on to it, trembles at the thought of hurting him and clings to him in the face of it. His face of him is one of absolute despair, this is the moment where they realize that their destiny is inevitable and that they will repeat this duel one day.

Now something that I find interesting is how Gellert trembles at the idea and lets his guard down for a moment, and Albus holds his wand up, he doesn't like the idea, but he's more determined to do it, that's the moment where he chooses to do what is right and not what is easy.

And Albus, he doesn't even know how to feel about all of this. Should he feel angry with Gellert for left him? Should he be glad that he was stopped in that summer in the worst way possible? Would he be willing to give up the best two months of his life for his sister? He can hurt to the man he loves?

They both love each other, but that is the moment where they have lost each other and their reactions to it kill me. Gellert seeks to emotionally harm Albus and Albus just walks away, he does not seek to harm Gellert with his action from him, but the fact that he turns his back on him and shows a certain indifference after tremendous emotional shock hurts Gellert more and seeks to harm Albus more with his next action

"Who will love you now Dumbledore?, you're all alone" Those words seem more directed at himself than at Albus, he feels alone, and the only proof that someone really loved him lies broken on the ground.

It is also interesting how Gellert goes from calling him "Albus" at the beginning of the film to calling him "Dumbledore" at the end of it

I think Albus was more prepared for the idea of confronting him, from the beginning he raises the idea of getting rid of the troth and Gellert is resistant to the idea, he doesn't want to, it is the only physical proof he has of his and he clings to it. Item.

Gellert is an emotional wreck and unlike Albus, he doesn't have people who love and support him unconditionally, he's alone.

He is a man who does not know how to deal with strong emotions (and it has been shown since fbwtft) and that is his greatest weakness. Dumbledore always talks about how love is the most powerful magic because he thinks it is what we don't know. He doesn't even feel lovable, but he keeps thinking about it.

And every day I am more convinced that Gellert's feelings for Albus are the reason why he loses THE duel, that Gellert's love for him is enough for him to repent and let him win, and thats why Albus locks Gellert in Nurmergard, because he has faith that he will regret it because he already showed signs of it

The end of the movie

"I was never your enemy..." says Gellert to the public, and then proceed to search Albus, look at him to the eyes and says "...then or now"

I was speechless at first, THIS MAN hurts Albus firts and he feels betrayed and emotionally hurt by him, BUT HE STILL WANTS ALBUS ON HIS SIDE. I HAVE NO WORDS FOR THAT.

The end of the movie is so sad, Albus promeses to Thesues find and captured Gellert after have that moment is so hurtful. See the pact broken is a hurtful pain and he cant explain that.

(btw Newt is a great friend for Albus in this movie, all the time he helps and supports because he knows that this hurts him, he doesn't judge him and that's why i adore Newt so much)

At the very end see Albus seeing the wedding was so sad, i cant belived how that scene is so painful and so happy and the same time. I actually refuse to belive that they dont invite Albus to the wedding, but the fact that he stays alone in the street see something that nows it will never be able to live it's a very hurtful moment, and a very sad ending for him.

#grindeldore #albus dumbledore #jude law #secrets of dumbledore #gellert grindelwald #mads mikkelsen #sod spoiler #the secrets of dumbledore #fantastic beasts #i wrote this with my Grindeldore playlist and im get so much inspired #i actually so proud for this #ggad #they gonna ruin my life #if you read all the post #thank you

fr1gate8

awound2close

lashton make me want to kms

tobythetrashyartist

when i saw these screenshots from tiktok i knew i had to draw this ksjsk

kazuza-art

More old GGAD PLEASE! PLEASE!

Old grindeldore cutie style xD

bennu-the-bee-deactivated202408

you can call me a hater if you want but i refuse to believe that gellert died a reformed man

sorry but all he did was defend albus, that’s something that he would have done both at the age of 16 and 50….

that doesn’t show remorse or concern for the ongoing war, in fact i would go as far as to say that he was acting exactly like he did that summer, where he teased and degraded someone on what he deemed to be albus’ behalf

spot the difference besties 🥰🥰🥰 :

humlesnurr

I do think that scene with Albus in the afterlife, and the following scene of Harry and Voldemorts final duel, sort of implies that he had some remorse in him, though? Everyone will feel different about it, of course, but I don't really think these lines would be included in DH if JKR didn't want to hint at Gellert being capable of love (And therefore some remorse) to contrast him against Voldemort

Here I think the sentence really needs to be broken up into two, really. Albus talking about how there were rumours about his remorse in Nurmengard, and Albus speculation about why he lied to Voldemort. Albus thinks that the rumoured remorse is the reason for him dying as a way to make some sort of amends, but Harry, while not discounting Gellert's capability for remorse, thinks that his lie has more to do with an attempt at protecting Albus tomb. BUT I still think those first lines are important. Voldemort is throughout the books shown incapable of feeling remorse, Harry even noting on it when Voldemort kills Snape, the one Voldemort at this point think has been the most loyal to him.

The whole discussion around remorse is a constant in DH, like in Snape's motivation of protecting Harry

And it is also said that remorse is the one thing that can heal ones soul after ruining it with horocruxes. I just personally find it hard to think that they would set up the concept of Gellert perhaps feeling remorseful after some time in Nurmengard if they didn't want to separate him from Voldemort in that manner and imply that he, unlike Voldemort, was capable of change because he understood love the way he did.

bennu-the-bee-deactivated202408

maybe i didn’t explain myself very well 😭😭😭

i don’t think he was without remorse nor do i believe that he was incapable of it

my point is that there exists this idea in the fandom that gellert did a complete 180 and was a good man all of a sudden when nothing in the text supports that

i certainly believe that he regretted some of his actions and i certainly believe that he was capable of change but i don’t believe he died a good person, i don’t believe in the slightest that he fully understood and regretted all of his actions

i believe he regretted what they cost him, a life with albus for example and i believe that he probably regretted how violent his actions were but i don’t believe he fully understood and felt remorseful for the extent of his cause…. i don’t believe he died viewing muggles and wizards as equals

and i don’t believe his sacrifice in the tower was selfless, him dying for albus wasn’t a new idea, teenage gellert would have done the same thing… viewing his death as proof of immense remorse and humility doesn’t work when gellert would have made that choice at the height of his blood supremacist political campaign, it doesn’t work when that choice was arguably more about albus then the war

i also don’t believe it’s a coincidence that in both the photos i had chosen gellert is mocking someone by telling them that ‘ they don’t understand ‘ it could arguably be showing how little he had changed, he was still conceited and he still enjoyed mocking people, he enjoyed inciting chaos and violence

humlesnurr

Think to me, I have trouble seeing him sacrificing himself for Albus pre-duel in 1945. I think he loved him, that he desperately wanted him back and that he would protect him from others should he need to, and that he didn't want to kill him, but I think the movies don't really showcase him as someone who at that point is selfless enough to sacrifice his life for Albus, I mean, despite how half-heartedly it was, he did plan to kill Albus to get him out of the way before that moment in Bhutan when they touch again, thats a part of the complexities of their love, I feel. I think teen him definitely could imagine himself dying for Albus, but his teen self isn't as rotten yet as his older self. I don't think he's fully reformed, I think that is something that is common with many of the characters in Harry Potter, that they seem stuck in time and are unable to overcome their past in different ways and for different reasons. He's arrogant and gleeful towards Voldemort in prison, just like he was mocking and arrogant towards Abe, but there the contexts are so different to me. In one he's facing the one who was Albus biggest enemy and in the other he was facing his brother, same sort of traits sure but two people on the opposite side of their meaningfulness to Albus.

Again, I do think that the line from Albus really sets up at least the interpretation of him regretting his actions in the war, and that if he could live life over again, he wouldn't do all that he did because of that remorse. Seeing him as someone who in the end only cared about Albus still is valid, but I think seeing him as Albus seems to hope for, that he understood the horrors of his actions, still has textual support.

ourgreatergood

I absolutely agree with humlesnurr on everything above, even though ofc it is a valid interpretation to view him as only caring about Albus.

If I may offer an interpretation that kind of ties it both together - as it is also discussed together in the text:

I would argue that Gellert was able to show remorse only because of his love for Albus. As we have established, he’s not a good man in any sense and never could be given that he was a violent facist for half his life. Even if he showed genuine remorse I’d still argue that still would not put him in the good man bracket. We also don’t see him show much, if any, genuine empathy, compassion or love for anyone or anything other than Albus - at least not enough to keep him from acting violent - and his cause.

(Now one could make a point of arguing that the way he views his cause, he could have some absolutely misguided love for wizardkind - something akin to how (excuse the irony in this similie) radfems/terfs genuinely believe they are helping women and are the only one truly caring about women’s health and rights, when in reality there is so much deep rooted misogyny that is actually harming all women. But I won’t get into that, just a sidenote.)

The thing is, as @humlesnurr has pointed out, to me Gellert doesn’t seem like he’d actually sacrifice himself for Albus post 1899-pre 1945, because during this time, probably also fueled by what he probably saw as a betrayal on Albus’ part and their estrangement during that time (and almost 50 yrs is a damn long time), his cause, the Greater Good is obviously more important to him than Albus. Which is not to say that he doesn’t still care about and loves Albus, but he very obviously chooses his cause over him. I think - and this is also supported how soul/love/magic/killing work together in world - that during this time of his most violent and cruel crimes, he is least in touch with that part of him that is able to love and actually loves Albus. Which is kind of a downward spiral since we know how killing damages the soul and therefore affects the emotional ability, yet in turn, you have to be able to really mean it to kill or torture someone.

What saves Gellert in Nurmengard (again in 50 damn long years of solitary confinement), imho, is not his theoretical ability to love, but the reality of loving Albus. While it is implied that Voldemort never had the ability to love to begin with, I think it could be argued that Gellert might very well have lost it during his campaign and the subsequent inevitable magical altering of his soul, if he had not preserved this love for Albus, if he had not at least once in his live actually experienced love and being loved in return.

I think, if he didn’t have that, he’d never been able to show remorse and thus save his soul. Because here I think is the most important point and also the most glaring difference between him and Voldemort as it is made in DH - remorse has a magical impact on the soul. It is arguably one of the strongest magical impacts right next to love, as is demonstrated in arguably the most selfless act in the whole series, namely when Harry tells Voldemort in the final duel:

“[…] But before you try to kill me, I’d advise you to think about what you’ve done… think, and try for some remorse, Riddle…”

“What is this?”

Of all the things Harry had said to him, beyond any revelation or taunt, nothing had shocked Voldemort like this. Harry saw his pupils contract to thin slits, saw the skin around his eyes whiten.

“It’s your one last chance,” said Harry, “it’s all you’ve got left… I’ve seen what you’ll be otherwise… be a man… try… try for some remorse…”

[DH, The Flaw in the Plan, p.812]

I could go on about why exactly this scene makes Harry so special and Master of Death etc. but the point for my argument is, Harry has understood - because Harry is so capable of love and compassion - what Voldemort can never understand because he is not capable of it at all: That remorse mends your soul. It’s the only way to not become whatever that pathetic thing was in limbo.

And therefore genuine remorse is not only an act of personal growth, it is also a magical remedy - which is, btw, why I think Dumbledore hope Gellert had experienced it as well.

And to come full circle now: Harry gave Riddle the chance to save his soul in this final duel, just like Albus gave Gellert the chance to save his soul when he imprisoned him in Nurmengard, instead of killing him or robbing him of his soul or sanity in Azkaban. Riddle could not repent because he had no way of understanding love or remorse or the importance of the soul (“…there is so much you do not understand…”). But Gellert had a way of understanding it, because he had done it before, he had loved Albus, he had probably regretted Ariana’s death even if he wasn’t brave enough to deal with the fallout. (“Gellert was there in the house when it happened, and he came back to my house all of a dither, […]”) He might have forgotten about it for half of his life but in the end in his love for Albus he was able to remember it again, to understand from it, to grow from it and to save his soul because of it.

His lie to Voldemort was simply the (perfectly) culminated expression of that. Gellert does not want to conquer death anymore, he is not afraid of it anymore, because he had probably understood what Albus and Harry had, too - that death with an intact soul is nothing to be feared (while Nurmengard was not a nice place for the living, probably why he ‘welcomed death’, too). Which is sign of growth and understanding which he could not have made only out of his affection for Albus only without any further introspection. That he is lying to Voldemort is all three things combined: His last and only possible attempt at making amends because he felt remorse, his attempt to protect Albus’ grave because he loved Albus AND a remainder of his character, arrogant and taunting and preventing someone unworthy from getting a Hallow.

So, in the end, I’d argue that Dumbledore’s - the great champion of love, while considering himself so inadequate with it - love is what saved Grindelwald. That does not make Gellert a good man but it makes him a better man than Voldemort. And it grants him an intact soul. Which is what DH is really showcasing.

(Or you could phrase it like this: In the end he still only did it all because he loved Albus.)