Cairn About Tabletop Games

newish GM hacking away until it feels right loosely inspired by OSR/NSR frameworks but not beholden to them collecting my thoughts here, not trying to be an expert or a teacher

[dicegetic-musings]

About the game

loosely based on Cairn and Errant rules

3 players

Played over text chat on discord

Theater of the mind, except for hex crawl

Emphasis on mapping and time tracking

Homebrew world, aiming towards more deeply incorporating actual medieval elements without worrying about being exactly historically correct

Mostly sandbox play

Ecological and religious themes

Pitched as Princess Mononoke meets Pentiment

[thydungeongal]

If you feel so inextricably bound by the narrative cruft around an RPG ruleset that you can't imagine doing anything nuanced or interesting with it, that seems like a you problem.

I don’t know what this is about but I suspect it’s about my “you shouldn’t try to reframe the text of D&D as something it is not” post, in which case my reply to you is “if you can’t understand the point I was making with that post, that seems like a you problem.” :)

Cause I explicitly say that you should do whatever you want with D&D: but that you should also be aware of what kind of assumptions the text itself presents and what the expected gameplay loop is. Because once you start to deviate from the assumptions presented in the text and the expected gameplay loop without stopping to examine how rejecting the buy-in will change the game, the game itself is bound to suffer. You silly goose. :)

[thydungeongal]

Also new rule, anytime someone misunderstands my extremely cool and well-articulated post and goes like “how dare you say D&D can’t be about a plucky found family killing goblins for heroic reasons” I’m going to pet a kittye or a doggye. Because I like aminals and I think I deserve good things even when people are being silly and not being able to read right.

[thydungeongal]

Also I’m going to fire mind beams at you

[thydungeongal]

Also also trying to do “something nuanced” with the “black and white morality killing undesirables for the greater good” game (or for old-school editions, “morally grey tomb robbers doing morally grey tomb robber things” game) doesn’t sound like my idea of a good time when there are better games out there for doing “something nuanced.” I like D&D as a cool arcade beat ‘em up game. I don’t want to hack the arcade machine into a more nuanced, morally grey experience when I can play Apocalypse World or Dream Askew or Monsterhearts or Blades in the Dark or Eureka: Investigative Urban Fantasy or any other game with mechanics and writing that doesn’t actually explicitly resist nuance. If you want to do that with D&D, cool, but I’m a “play a different game”-pilled “game systems encode assumptions that you may not even realize affect the gameplay even when you wish to reject them”-cel.

[dicegetic-musings]

2nd session last night, it was awesome!

We moved from discord to harpygg, and this was such a good decision. I'm glad I pitched it to the group and they enthusiastically agreed. One player saying, this is so much more immersive than discord, and I agree.

The group is starting to get the hang of the game loop and the mechanics of play, so we got a lot more done this time than last. And they're still alive!

I may have impressed upon them too significantly that the cairn combat rules are pretty lethal because they saw my quest hook and said, no that looks dangerous lol 😆

The inventory management stuff I was worried they would find tedious but the more I sprinkle interesting or useful items around the more fun tension it creates for them when they can't carry all that they want to. Hearing them discuss strategies is great.

The characters interacted with an angry fire spirit. Their first impulse was to put out the fire, but then they realized they could talk to it since it's a spirit. Having support for that through reaction tables was so nice, and I think my players really broke out of the video game mindset of "every encounter is combat" during the interaction. They attempted to redirect the spirit down to the dungeon underground but instead sent it trailing off into the woods after the creature that emerged from the dungeon. So the forest may end up being on fire. I think that'll be an interesting scourge to track.

One of the characters experienced smoke inhalation, so I got to use the wound mechanic for the first time, loved it.

My players really make this an amazing experience. They are very kind and supportive and really engaged. They want to learn the rules and play. They said their favorite parts have been the world building and how they are rewarded for being curious about things in the rooms. I love that. Looking forward to future sessions.

I gotta flesh out the surrounding hexes more in case they really do nope out of the underground dungeon I prepared.

So far they have

Been conscripted by a knight into a "monster" fighting group

Saw said knight be swallowed mid sentence by a giant worm bursting from the ground

Helped pull a man from under crushing bolders and then amputated his leg with a demonic knife

Delt with a fire spirit possessing a woman. Successfully de-possessed her but accidentally sent the fire spirit raging into the woods

Developed smoke inhalation wounds from putting out the fire caused by the spirit

Became enthralled temporarily by a corrupted holy water font

Explored an experimental laboratory and a chapel to learn more about what's really going on here

Seen men drown while not being in any water

Decided they need to handle whatever is below them

[anim-ttrpgs]

Excerpt from Unchained Mysteries, a treaties on investigative TTRPG gameplay that shares a lot of points with Eureka: Investigative Urban Fantasy, and a relevant excerpt from Eureka: Investigative Urban Fantasy side-by-side.

[anim-ttrpgs]

You're working on a medieval setting?! Wow! Will there be universities? Where can I get more information on this? How do I support it?

Yes, Death Bed: An Impenetrably Medieval Dungeon Game. One of the ideas for it is that it is so medieval as to be practically an otherworldly fantasy setting of its own ("impenetrably medieval") before you even factor in any actual fantasy elements, because the medieval world as portrayed in pop-history and thus in most medievally-set media is so completely different from the real thing that showing as-close-as-we-can-get to real medieval culture is going to come off bizarre and alien. Most of what people "know" about medieval culture is really from 1700s England and America.

There won't be functioning universities, but a university might make a good location to set an adventure module. Even though the setting is medieval, it is also post-apocalyptic. The few, few survivors all led historical medieval lives, and thus their culture is medieval, but that society has fully collapsed, which is one of the reasons it's a dungeon crawling game. The PCs are plunging into abandoned crypts, castles, etc. full of undead and mutated monsters to bring back items of value to their small survivor settlements. This is usually less gold and jewelry like typical dungeon crawl loot, and more books, games, art, and other things to make life in the settlement more pleasant. Because the "survivors" are also undead. They hardly need food and water, but rather something to do besides literally sit there and rot.

The whole thing is very much inspired by Dark Souls as well as historical medieval culture.

You can find more information, and support it, by subscribing to our patreon for $5 or more. We have a pre-alpha preview of Death Bed available to download there.

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[frozenthoughtbox]

Ok I know it’s supposed to be “so authentically medieval as to be bizarre and alien” but as a medieval enthusiast I do desperately hope you will throw in at least a few rare and scattered Tiffany Problem elements

[anim-ttrpgs]

Making it as medieval as possible is going to necessarily include a bunch of "tiffany problems."

There's already a few parts where the game has basically been like "yes, they actually did already have this technology/idea pre-1500."

One of the biggest hurdles is guiding players (who will be responsible for much of the fine details of the game world since it is a TTRPG) in understanding that this world has clocks but not beartraps, relatively advanced and survivable surgery but not "race," that they had wildlife preservation regulations (distinct from the king just saying "nobody but the king is allowed to hunt deer") but had not yet decided that women are never ever meant to hold weapons or military positions.

[dicegetic-musings]

Following a road

If players follow a road they have been down before, they can choose to skip the hex to hex, watch based travel. And instead "travel along the road."

- they will not discover any landmarks or hex features

- can travel 4 hexes a day (roads through difficult hexes count as 2)

- roll 1 binary encounter check a day, 1-3 encounter, 4-6 no encounter

- no chance of discovery or supply harvest

- party is assumed to finding accommodations to sleep at along the way. Must pay the cost of rations and waterskin in silver.

- loses out on the ability to roll 3d6 to automatically cover food, water, and shelter.

- loses the ability to roleplay at the sleeping locations along the way (taverns, monasteries).

- they can't be stealthy, I may roll to see if factions make note of their travel along the road.

Essentially, they can expedite travel between locations along known roads, in exchange for paying for the trip in silver, having no supply gathering or landmark mapping, and having no roleplay opportunities outside of the random encounters, which have a 3 in 6 chance each day. Time is tracked in days.

*this proper roads only, not trails, paths, tracks, etc.

[dicegetic-musings]

Revising this slightly in light of the newly finalized currency rules.

When traveling along a road, rations and waterskin will not deplete. The party will have to pay for accommodations by adding appropriate stars to the debt log each day.

Need to decide if standardizing accommodations, in which case it would always cost 2 stars-ish per night or if I want to roll to see what accommodations level is available and charge 1-3 stars depending on the level of accommodations provided by the roll.

Tempting to just standardize to a single star rating since this is basically a fast travel mechanic that I've already established removes nightly roleplaying, so the exact quality of the accommodations won't provide variability in roleplaying opportunities.

[dicegetic-musings]

Following a road

If players follow a road they have been down before, they can choose to skip the hex to hex, watch based travel. And instead "travel along the road."

- they will not discover any landmarks or hex features

- can travel 4 hexes a day (roads through difficult hexes count as 2)

- roll 1 binary encounter check a day, 1-3 encounter, 4-6 no encounter

- no chance of discovery or supply harvest

- party is assumed to finding accommodations to sleep at along the way. Must pay the cost of rations and waterskin in silver.

- loses out on the ability to roll 3d6 to automatically cover food, water, and shelter.

- loses the ability to roleplay at the sleeping locations along the way (taverns, monasteries).

- they can't be stealthy, I may roll to see if factions make note of their travel along the road.

Essentially, they can expedite travel between locations along known roads, in exchange for paying for the trip in silver, having no supply gathering or landmark mapping, and having no roleplay opportunities outside of the random encounters, which have a 3 in 6 chance each day. Time is tracked in days.

*this proper roads only, not trails, paths, tracks, etc.

[dicegetic-musings]

Getting Lost

Experimenting with what getting lost looks like for my players.

I wanted to have them navigate by landmarks as described in this blog article; however after play testing, the author is right in recommending this technique only be used in areas with the same terrain type.

It did not mesh well with allowing players to see adjacent terrain types due to either 3 mile hex distance to horizon or terrain type being mountainous (high vantage) or plains (open vista).

Partly because we're playing online, I could not find a way of updating the hexes with the terrain type in adjacent areas while also not immediately alerting players that they were lost by changing the terrain tile.

The goal of the article seems to be that there's some player skill involved in backtracking where they went off course based on landmarks. I like the player skill part and the chance for them to get it wrong.

This was not doable if the terrain type was immediately visible as being different than previously revealed.

I had to either give up letting them see adjacent terrain types or having them strategize to get unlost. I decided on the latter. I think strategizing would be too complex for our virtual game.

Current lost rules

- every hex traveled has a 2 in 6 chance of getting lost

- 1 in 6 if traveling to a discovered landmark (or maybe also if traveling along a trail or path?)

- 0 in 6 if following a road (rare)

- lost means roll 1d6, 1-3 = no progress out of current hex. 4-6 = move back to previous hex.

- party can see adjacent hex terrain types if in mountain or plains hex

I think this has simplifies the process while also still rewarding seeking out landmarks. PCs will be encouraged to seek out high points or clear areas to gain information about surrounding areas. While also weighing that mountain hexes take 2 turns to leave.

They will be encouraged to seek out and mark down landmarks on the map because, in the absence of roads, traveling from landmark to landmark is their best chance at not getting lost.

If they get lost twice in a row, they will be considered pixie led, which is for a different post.

Using Landmarks in Wilderness Travel

 I've been continuing work on my Jorune: Evolutions ruleset. Recently I've been working on wilderness exploration rules. One thing I've been

[dicegetic-musings]

The map my players see

Versus the maps I use to keep track of things