they're just fictional ships, chill @discoursecatharsis - Tumblr Blog

Hello and welcome!

This is a fandom discourse blog.

Basically in 2017, I got really annoyed with anti-shippers (namely anti-Otayuris) because I just wanted to find cute Otayuri art to reblog, and instead was met with anti-ship posts every day calling us shippers pedophiles for enjoying the ship, which is absolutely ridiculous. So I made this account to complain about them. Then I noticed this behavior occurring in other fandoms and now it's everywhere and I'm a person of spite so complain I will. So now this blog has spiraled into *gestures* this. Basically I just complain about anti-shippers of all sorts and talk about why their arguments are flawed.

My main beef is that antis harass people over fictional crap and I hate that because fandom is suppose to be fun. I'll spare the rant, but you can find my general thoughts and stances on fandom discourse here:

https://discoursecatharsis.tumblr.com/post/187632614682/twitter-about

I'm not as active on tumblr these days. Honestly the Great Purge of 2018 made me lose interest in tumblr in general so I haven't used this site much at all since.

My inbox is open though, but honestly I don't check it anymore. As my accounts have grown, I've gotten far too many messages over the years, and as one person, I feasibly can't keep up with all of the messages at this point. I apologize if I never answer your question or see your message.

That said, I want to leave my inbox open because I started this blog as a "anonymous venting" blog of sorts, and I want it to always serve that purpose, even if I don't post the anons. So feel free to use my inbox to vent! I hope it's ~cathartic~ for you.

I'm more active on Twitter though, but only somewhat, as lately I've been trying to be less involved when it comes to discourse for my mental health. If you would like to follow me there though, here's my account:

https://twitter.com/lizcourserants

I also started a Youtube channel and make videos sometimes on these topics if y'all are interested in that:

https://www.youtube.com/c/discoursecatharsis

And actually I'll just end this with the carrd I made for Twitter because it's a nice tl;dr:

https://lizcourserants.carrd.co/

Thank you for reading!

Remember fandom is for fun, learn how to mute/blacklist terms, don't hesitate to block people, and be kind to others~

#pinned #personal #pinned post #about

wolveria

Do not let the antishippers find the Got or House of the Dragon fandom cause they'll cry

Or Labyrinth, or Flowers in the Attic, or any one of Stephen King's books. It's almost as if the wider public understands that fiction can be both fucked up and entertaining without the need for a moral lesson following after, or that it's an indictment that you're going to partake in the things you read about.

Antis are so far removed from reality, and they have to remain that way in order to not have their beliefs constantly challenged and torn apart.

conniferusblack

The focus should really be on people learning how to consume a wide range of media in a healthy way, and that includes being able to process feelings of disgust, rage, and discomfort in cases where the narrative absolutely is intending you to feel that way!

It feels like we're witnessing a lot of people now grow too comfortable with what they are familiar with that they project their inability to process negative feelings on others and blame the content itself.

For instance, I am aware that I cannot handle very explicit and violent scenes of SA, and had no warning when I first watched The Flowers of War movie. I remember being so affected, I was haunted by those scenes for days. But I don't condemn the movie for existing just because it contains a subject and content that makes me uncomfortable and upset. Especially for what was a war movie.

Ugly things deserve to exist. The critical focus should be on the execution and narrative intent, and even if those end up being bad, people are allowed to make bad things! People can suck at writing! They exist!

We cannot be wishy washy when it comes to creative freedom, especially when you try to commit what is "morally good" to paper under such a subjective perspective.

sweetlavenderdarling

Multiple things can exists at once, and in this case it's also the fact people are getting too comfortable with the thought of normalizing certain topics and not in a media literacy type of way, but more of a

"Fiction doesn't equal reality!" Or more disturbingly "So long as they only do it behind close doors and doesn't effect me I don't see the problem"

No one has any issues with horror, or disturbing media, and before anyone says anything I say this as an English literature teacher who focuses on Post war literature so you can IMAGINE the things I have to teach and share understanding with

To word as simply and crudely as possible look below

And not to demonize, but if you are watching say Lolita, and rather than understanding that this is from the POV of a predator and has layer of layers to the story, and instead ingredients IDOLIZING and making this sad story out to be sexy, chic, or god forbid, romantic, then you need to stop and question why and see if you have any further issues adding to it

And as much as people hate to acknowledge this, authors DO infact need to be watched and criticized when needed. It's incredibly easy to make CP, romantic violence, bigotry, and hate filled works, and simply slap a genre label on it and then cry "THE ANTIS A RUNING EVERYTHING AND TRYING TO CANCEL ME 😭😭😭😭"

Splatterpunk ESPECIALLY has this issue and is happening with more frequency this last few years

To simply call someone an anti without even stopping to think why and to ignore the same critical thinking you demand others to use is sad at best and bitterly pathetic most of the time

wolveria

Perhaps you're not getting the point of the original post, so I'm going to back up a bit. You may not have been in fandom spaces for long enough to know that "proshipping" is a term created by antis so they could carve out an "us vs. them" space in fandom.

Proshipping was the default. "Live and let live" was the motto most fans lived by, at least when I first got into fanfiction in the 90s. This is how I (and a lot of people) define it.

Proshipping is anti-censorship. It says nothing about being unable to criticize said media. It says nothing about romanticizing, normalizing, sexualizing, etc. It only means "you shouldn't ban and persecute artists and those who consume their art."

That being said, there is nothing inherently wrong with having fantasies, no matter how dark and taboo. Thoughts are not actions. Literature will not "poison" the mind or the soul. "Getting off" on dark content is not a sin. These fears and talking points are steeped in conservative Christian values. Perhaps you are a conservative/Christian, but that has nothing to do with me, or with anyone else.

Allowing "bad" content to exist doesn't mean you can't criticize it. The problem is, many antis seem to think stalking, harassing, and doxxing someone until they disappear off social media is the socially acceptable way to criticize fellow fans and artists.

By stating proshippers don't want you to criticize or scrutinize anything, you either don't know what proshipping is, or you're moving the goalpost.

"Antis are trying to cancel me!" We aren't afraid of antis cancelling us. We're afraid of being stalked, harassed, having our workplaces called on us and accusing us of being predators, etc. (Yes, this does happen, I have real world examples of it). I don't think you realize what a toxic, unsafe environment fandom has become because of this fanatical obsession with "good behavior" when it comes to literature.

How do you define romanticize? Who gets to decide what is romanticizing and what isn't? What if you think I'm romanticizing something, while I believe I'm writing it in a non-romantic way? Who gets the final say?

"Authors need to be watched" Authors are not here to teach you moral lessons, let alone need to be watched (whatever the hell that means). If you want moral lessons, go to church. I'm not being facetious. If you want your literature to "teach right from wrong" (and I say that very generously because I'm no longer religious), then controlling authors is not the way.

"We're not against dark subjects, we're against romanticizing and getting off on it." Got it. No one is allowed to be horny from sinful fantasies.

"So long as they only do it behind close doors and doesn't effect me I don't see the problem" I'm not sure what you find wrong with this statement. What do you care what consenting adults do behind closed doors? These talking points you're coming up with are reminiscent of right-wing, historically anti-queer language. Whether intentionally or not.

"We're not against writing/exploring dark topics!" That's. That's exactly what antis are against. Because they can't agree on HOW to explore those topics "tastefully" or "correctly." They can't even agree amongst themselves what content is problematic. It's a goddamn train wreck of hypocrisy.

I know exactly why antis think they way they do. I was Mormon once. You don't get more pro-censorship, thought-policing than that. So, yes, I have years of personal history and critical thinking when it comes to considering the media I consume. Don't worry about me, I'm doing just fine.

What I worry about are young people growing up in this environment where fantasies aren't only considered sinful, they're considered harmful, and they're being told to purge them from their thoughts if they want to be a good person. I can't even begin to describe how harmful that is to children and adults alike.

#reblob

mysharona1987

I do maintain that partly why Israel is losing the PR war is that they can’t stop the IDF acting like fucking idiot monsters on instagram and tiktok.

Makes you wonder what would have happened if social media had been a thing during the Iraq war.

#this is just unreal like i can't believe how heartless these people are #this is just evil #reblob

donuteater13

Reblog to kill it faster

#reblob

I think Musk finally killed Twitter cause nothing will load lol

I had a bunch of tabs opened, stepped away for a while, went back to retweet the tweets in those tabs and boom, got this

This is just *chef's kiss* a beautiful example of environmental storytelling

#personal

discoursecatharsis

I've noticed this pattern with antis in fandom where, in their attempt to distance themselves from anything and everything "problematic" in their fandoms, they refuse to acknowledge when they DO enjoy something problematic. Therefore, they don't recognize the problematic elements of the ship, character, media, etc. They'll also heavily downplay or deny any problematic. aspects of their favorite fandom thing.

I just saw an example of this and it is blowing my mind right now and I need to share this with y'all.

It involves the comments on this video.

Some context for Princess and the Frog: the blonde girl is Charlotte, also called Lottie. She's the main character Tiana's best friend. Charlotte's goal was always to marry a prince, and she almost marries (who she believes to be) Prince Naveen, but once she sees that Naveen and Tiana are in love, she tries to help them turn back human so they can be together.

At the end of the movie, Tiana and Naveen get married, and this scene plays after. Charlotte dances with Naveen's kid brother, and says "I've waited this long" in response to him saying that he's 6 and a half years old.

Now Charlotte's line here, if you look at the context clues of her story line, implies that she's saying "I've waited this long for a prince to marry, so I can wait longer for Naveen's younger brother to grow up." It's just a joke. Albeit, a joke that many will find to be very uncomfortable and inappropriate, but a joke nonetheless. I highly doubt Charlotte is actually going to "wait for" this child to grow up to marry him. She's making a joke at her expense, about her desperation of her dream to marry a prince.

BUT FOR SOME REASON.... many of the comments are like "she means that she's been waiting to DANCE with a prince."

I'm completely and utterly serious y'all. Here are some of the comments along those lines, with thousands of thumbs up each.

If you've seen this movie, you'll realize that these comments make absolutely no sense for more than one reason.

1) Charlotte danced with Prince Naveen (or at least with the villain disguised as him) earlier in the movie. She danced with a prince already. Why would that still be her dream if she already accomplished that?

2) Lottie speaks multiple times (during her childhood and in present day as a young adult) about her dream of "marrying a prince." Not dancing with a prince. Not meeting one. No, she wants to MARRY A PRINCE AND BE A PRINCESS.

This video has some clips of her saying this, at the time stamps 0:20, 2:52, 4:08, and 5:21.

Charlotte does give up her dream of marrying Naveen specifically for Tiana, because she see that he makes Tiana happy. But with how she jumps in like a wide receiver to catch the bouquet at Naveen and Tiana's wedding, it's clear she still has her dream of marrying *A* prince, just not Naveen.

But back to the comments on that video.

The comments seem to be downplaying the actual implication of her line. It's almost like they're desperately trying to ignore what she actually meant and make it more wholesome because they don't want to admit that their favorite movie has an uncomfy and inappropriate joke.

It's disturbing that this is yet another example where people in fandom (who are fantis or have been influenced by that fanti mindset) are downplaying a scene (or a ship, trope, etc) that is ACTUALLY problematic because they personally like the movie or the character and they don't want to admit that it has some issues. Instead of just admitting "yeah that scene/line was kinda fucked up and gross," they are jumping through HOOPS to make it seem more innocent than it was. And this is completely blowing my mind and is honestly concerning.

If you want to personally interpret it in a different way, in a way to make it more palatable to you, be my guest. That's what fandom and fanon is all about and I do that a lot too. But to see so many people outright deny the actual implications of this line is... bizarre af. It's one thing to be like "hmm yeah I don't like that, so I'm going to personally interpret this ship/trope/scene differently so it's more comfortable to me." It's another thing entirely to be in complete denial and ignore the actual context of the character and their story.

Also, so many of the other comments on the video aren't even commenting on the actual scene or on what Charlotte said. They're just generic comments on how much they love Charlotte as a character or how they miss this 2D animation. It's like they're trying reallyyyyyy hard to ignore the joke that's being made.

On the grander scheme, this is concerning because these people are refusing to acknowledge something that's inappropriate at best and predatory at worse (an adult "waiting" for a child to grow up) because they don't want to be caught enjoying/supporting something "bad."

All their talk about normalizing and normalization, but they're the ones kinda normalizing bad things by downplaying them or being in denial of it when it's in THEIR favorite media. And that is very concerning and a big issue.

shippery-slope

This is some fascinating analysis! This is, like, basic text comprehension, and it's scary that so many people are training themselves out of using it.

discoursecatharsis

For real! And this is a Disney movie too. Not to say that Disney characters can't be complex, but many characters from a Disney princess movie are going to be pretty simple, simple enough for kids to comprehend at least. So the fact that so many people in these comments are completely missing Charlotte's pretty simple motivations is concerning.

#reply #reblob

Hello! Gonna try to be more active here again. At the least I figure I could copy-paste my twitter threads here so I'll try to start getting in the habit of that.

Gotta say, I do love the fact that tumblr doesn't have a character limit, I've missed that.