Sheepdoge Sidebloge

This started as a ZDK12 theory sideblog, then went through a few passing phases as a (cringeworthy) reblog dump. Now, it's basically an Undertale theory and datamining sideblog. I'm more interested in speculation about Chara and their role in the game I am about Gaster stuff, so expect a lot of Big Time Fucko.

[elf-hollow]

I think people (myself included in some cases) in this fandom are really too willing to say something that they've fully imagined would be narratively dissatisfying. it's like idk. I think it depends

maybe it's just an extension of that "why would I imagine a game I like is going to be bad" thing I talked about awhile ago, but it genuinely is starting to bug me how many posts I see that dismiss a vague idea because it "wouldn't work narratively" (even when I agree). it's just like.. well idk maybe it could. maybe the narrative isn't going the way you think it is based on the half of the story you've seen. maybe it would use that idea in a completely different way than you're imagining and it would rule. maybe the writing would rise to support the idea instead of getting shoved to the side in the way you're imagining.

and that's definitely not to say that there aren't some things that would genuinely be unsatisfying, no matter how they're written. it's just that I think what a lot of people are grasping for in these posts is something more like "I wouldn't like (this specific scenario I've imagined for) it"

[elf-hollow]

related to that last post actually, it's been bugging me to see people conflate the idea of toby fox 'not making characters Pure Evil' with the idea of 'never portraying a character as "villainous"'. or frankly even just 'always having a sympathetic motivation'. like to me the key to not writing Pure Evil into your story is to give your characters like. depth and motivation. and not to suggest that they're like, completely irredeemable (whether they're actually 'redeemed' within the story or not). whether or not you can sympathize with or justify their goals, actions, and/or reasoning yourself has very little to do with whether or not they are actually being portrayed as Pure Evil

[doge-w-a-bloge]

#I know I was talking about FRIEND before but in this case I actually think about this a lot with carol #like personally I find carol a wildly compelling character and simultaneously do not find her very sympathetic at all #like sure she 'lost' her daughter. but there is all evidence in the world that carol did not treat her (or noelle) well #and that dess would have left eventually anyway #like carol 'losing' dess was kind of a foregone conclusion and it's only really the circumstances that makes carol at all sympathetic for i #but just because I can't sympathize with carol doesn't mean she is suddenly irredeemably evil #because she is still very much written as an actual person reacting poorly to a bad situation #so like. whether or not there is /actually/ a world where she /does/ become a better person doesn't really matter #so much as the fact that she is written in a way where it is even possible to begin with

[elf-hollow]

you are one ant

[glacierclear]

i'm SICK for a HOME that i'll never DESERVE

[elf-hollow]

I find any insistence that gaster encounter in deltarune would be "too confusing for casual fans" a little silly because like. even the most casual fan, the fan who's never seen even a single pixel of undertale, who boots up deltarune will immediately be confronted by the gonermaker sequence right. and they'll probably also see the same very distinct text show up on death screens/the knight fight/the chapter four credits and like. wonder who this mysterious voice is. so then if the Guy From Voice shows up and says Hi I'm Guy From Voice then I think the casual player is gonna be like ohhh okay it's Guy From Voice

like if the writing of this purely hypothetical gaster encounter did lean very heavily on the assumption that everyone playing already knows him because he is Gaster from Undertale then yeah that probably would confuse some people! but also why would that be what you assume would happen

[lightning-witch-jenny]

I did not even know people were saying this what? This would be like saying Dess encounter would be too confusing for people who didn't pick up on all the hints she's gone missing

[elf-hollow]

you'll never believe what some people say about dessknight

[lightning-witch-jenny]

YOU'RE JOKING

[elf-hollow]

I find any insistence that gaster encounter in deltarune would be "too confusing for casual fans" a little silly because like. even the most casual fan, the fan who's never seen even a single pixel of undertale, who boots up deltarune will immediately be confronted by the gonermaker sequence right. and they'll probably also see the same very distinct text show up on death screens/the knight fight/the chapter four credits and like. wonder who this mysterious voice is. so then if the Guy From Voice shows up and says Hi I'm Guy From Voice then I think the casual player is gonna be like ohhh okay it's Guy From Voice

like if the writing of this purely hypothetical gaster encounter did lean very heavily on the assumption that everyone playing already knows him because he is Gaster from Undertale then yeah that probably would confuse some people! but also why would that be what you assume would happen

[elf-hollow]

I was never a fan of universal mother theory but I like it even less now, and you might be thinking "oh, because people use it as a way to insist that toriel is abusive/neglectful/alcoholic/etc?" and like that is part of it yes. but also I think it's such a shame because it means a bunch of people are just like.. ignoring what queen's relationship to kris could imply about their relationship to carol?

like I think it was always a stretch to say that queen acted anything like toriel, but "You Do Not Do Crazy Things Like "Have Opinions"" is something I could almost believe carol would say to kris verbatim. the relationship between queen & kris is just way more comparable to the relationship between carol & kris than it is to toriel & kris

I mean. the entirety of the screentime queen and kris have together where it's just them is spent with queen trying to force kris to work together with her. with the goal of finding her surrogate daughter figure who's actively trying to run away from her. who kris also happens to know the exact location of and is keeping from queen. does that not ring any bells. any at all

[elf-hollow]

I do absolutely think there's something funky up with "aborted" weird route just because "why was your hair all wet?" is so.. specific? like. their hair would dry faster than their clothes, wouldn't it? wouldn't you notice if their clothes were soaking wet? something up with that

[elf-hollow]

interesting wording

[elf-hollow]

something something kris being a "cheater" < flowery "cheating" by giving himself 999 in every stat > chara's whole thing with the number 9

[mossy-garden]

Where is the hype for Pink Deltarune huh everyone care more NOW

[jaronofthebored]

Okay so if aborting the weird route leads back to the normal beach scene, it can be assumed that clock time-wise, the weird route lake scene happens at an earlier time than when the normal scene starts

with this in mind, it's notable that even though rudy is already off the ladder by the time kris and susie explore the post-festival on the weird route, Noelle still gets the call he fell at that same moment. (Nothing changed.)

I just feel like this is worth considering in relation to the future of Rudy. even though he'd been off the ladder for potentially hours it's still urgent. something to consider.

[jaronofthebored]

I just saw someone saying Susie is "losing it" because she's calling light world money "light dollars" and wondering if she "hurt" noelle's phone as if it was a darkner

yep. that means she's really lost her mind. you got it. it has nothing to do with the themes of treating the dark world and objects with respect. you understand the ideas of deltarune and are not at all profoundly stupid.

some people make me wonder what game they played 5 chapters of

[doge-w-a-bloge]

#I HATE HOW PEOPLE TALK ABOUT SUSIE. #i dont fucking know why after ch5 it's pivoted so much to being so disparaging towards her #when it's been a big part of her growing kindness and love for others #and the dark world literally matters. what is the point of this damn game if it isn't

[friskibitz]

i seriously think there's an issue with some fans not expressing the imagination/sympathy required to engage with some stories. it's getting particularly bad with deltarune but i've seen it with others too, like someone who didn't see the robots as people talking about mega man. i really do think with some things you need to put real world ideas aside to some extent and engage with the ideas of personhood in the story

[friskibitz]

more susie fandom complaining. it feels like such a weird switch from ch4 where susie's like, really concerned for tenna and finding him a home. and i feel like everyone was in agreement of that. heck, mettaton refers to the tv as tenna too, and tenna apparently reciprocates the interaction. and now people are acting like susie is "crazy" for seeing the dark world as real and considering darkners?

furthermore, doesn't it just spit in the face of ralsei's entire arc? unless the idea is, ralsei matters and the rest of the darkners don't because ralsei's special? but that doesn't work either because ralsei's worldview includes all other darkners, and it would be really weird for them to be right about that. again with tenna, that's what his whole post-boss scene was about. what gives

[elf-hollow]

I literally cried during the ending of ch5 going "oh my god susie.. ohh.. her home.. ohh susie she loves all of the darkners so much.. ohh she finally has a place to live where she can be happy and loved and safe" so finding out that apparently people were seeing this as like a deeply tragic "oh no susie has gone too far and started seeing the Fake World as Real, how sad" moment makes me feel fucking insane. huh? huh? what? how could this chapter possibly have nailed it in harder that dark worlds are real places full of real people and real consequences that matter deeply and not just "kris and susie's fun pretend adventures"

[deepfrieddeltarunememes]