Our fourth solo interview is with Shinya, who is the foundation of the band. Shinya has been focusing on simple phrasing and groove in recent years, so how did he approach his latest album "Oboro"?
Basically I don't think about the details, I just do what comes to my mind and I don't worry about it.
-It seems that the songwriting process started very early on, but did you have the new album in mind from the beginning?
Shinya: That's right. I've been working on the songs for the new album. So we decided to release a single, and we talked about which of our existing songs we should release as a single, and "Oboro" was chosen.
-In your case, I personally feel that you've always written songs with a lot of energy or beauty. When you were thinking about the album, what kind of ideas and images did you have in your mind in the early stages of composition?
Shinya:I didn't really think about it before I wrote the song, I just started writing it, and as a result, I couldn't write anything but intense stuff.
-When you say "intense," do you mean songs with a fast BPM?
Shinya: That's right.
-There are several ways to compose a song, how did you do it this time?
Shinya: Recently, I've been using a plug-in guitar instrument that I really like. It has a lot of heavy sounds in it, so I just play it and think about what I want to do.
-What kind of composition system do you currently have at home? It is known to your fans that you are an Apple fanatic, and you seem to be changing to the latest version every year. Do you use the same kind of system for your compositions?
Shinya: It's the other way around, I'm very minimalistic now. I only use one laptop for composing.
-Do you want to install all your DTM software on the computer?
Shinya: That's right. I don't play guitar anymore when I write songs, so I've removed the audio interface. It's a very compact period.
-At the time of this writing, you are touring the country with the "Meguro Rokumeikan Gig", but if you take that computer with you, you can compose music in your dressing room?
Shinya: If I wanted to, I could, but I don't think I will (laughs).
-Did it change the way you came up with the ideas and the process of shaping the songs?
Shinya: That's right. When I used to compose, I used to play my guitar at home and write riffs by myself. But now I don't have a guitar and I'm working on it, so I think the guitar phrases I make have changed.
-So the intense songs you wrote were not chosen for the single, but do you have any plans to make it into the album?
Shinya: The song wasn't selected when it was written, so it was probably rejected (laughs).
-That's not something to say while laughing (laughs). By the way, Shinya, you're the type of person who actively goes to see other people's live performances. I think the main reason is because it's your favorite band or artist, but I also think that seeing a live performance can stimulate you in terms of calligraphy and creative therapy. Now that I have become a member of Corona, I can no longer go to live concerts, and DIR EN GREY has almost completely stopped performing. What do you do for musical input in such a situation?
Shinya: Hmmm... I don't think so at the moment (laughs). Especially when it comes to music.
-Do you ever go through various albums and videos by yourself?
Shinya: No, I don't. I just use what I have inside me right now.
-Shinya's musical tastes are well known to his fans, but is there anything new that has resonated with you during this composing process?
Shinya: Hmmm... I haven't explored anything new in the other solutions.
-Did you go back to your roots and what you like?
Shinya: No, I didn't think about that too much, I just made the songs naturally.
-How did you spend your time at stay home, as a musician and as an individual?
Shinya: I was doing nothing but editing videos (laughs). That's why I was spending most of my time on my YouTube channel.
-I've been watching it for a while now, and I'm also a subscriber to the channel, so please answer me politely (laughs).
Shinya: Oh, thank you very much (laughs).
-Of course it's fun to do, but is there anything exciting about it?
Shinya: When I was working on it, I thought that it was very similar to songwriting. You can keep working on it, and it never ends.
-If you want to be particular, you can go all the way.
That's right, even for a single video, there are endless things you can do.
-The timing of inserting a subtitle, the choice of font, etc.
Shinya: Yes, yes (laughs). Once you start paying attention to the details, there's really no end to it. It's similar to songwriting..
-Is Shinya the type of person who spends a lot of time focusing on various aspects of a song, even when he's writing it individually?
Shinya : With DIR EN GREY, I always bring the original songs to the studio before I've finished them. I know that as the members' ideas come in, it will definitely change from the shape I've created. That's why I don't go into too much detail (laughs), I only make it to a certain point because it's going to change anyway. I try to make it so that the members can understand the side of the song.
-You said that when you select songs in the band, you don't know who wrote which song. Do you ever get feedback from the band members afterwards?
Shinya: I was asked afterwards about the songs I wrote this time. "That's Shinya's song." Then, he said, "Oh, I liked it."
-So you've had that conversation? If you listen to the demo, do you know who made it?
Shinya: Yes, you're right. Yes, I don't have a definitive answer, but I can vaguely tell.
-Although it wasn't adopted, it's nice to be told that it's your favourite song.
Shinya: Well...yes, but the song selection is a majority decision.
-There are always multiple layers to a song, but each time you're inspired to write a new song from a different angle?
Shinya: No, I don't have any particular plans at the moment, since I'm in the middle of an explosive screening (laughs ). Once the songwriting starts again, I'm sure I'll be motivated like you said. I still have my computer with me, but I'm not writing songs, I'm collecting videos (laughs).
-That's a good point (laughs). You've been working on the album for a long time, what do you hope to achieve with it?
Shinya: Up until now, I've been thinking of songs that can evolve in a live setting, but this time, even if we make an album, we don't know if we will be able to perform live or tour like we have in the past. So I've been thinking about it with that situation in mind.
-In other words, rather than evolving through live performances, do you have a sense of construction that evolves completely during the production process?
Shinya: Well, to put it simply, it's a nuance.
-Do you want to take a different approach to the drums?
Shinya: No, when it comes to drum phrases, I don't think about the details, I just do what comes to my mind. I don't worry about it too much.
-What was your impression of this single, "Oboro", when you heard the original song?
Shinya: Well... I was working on several songs at the same time, and I don't remember what the original "Oboro" song sounded like.
-Were the other songs that you were arranging and pre-producing at the same time too strong for you?
Shinya: It was all very strong. The drum approach for "Oboro" was just what I thought of when I heard the original song, without any worries.
We're going to do a live performance for an audience on the 6th of May, but we don't know what's going to happen after that, so we're going to do it as if it might be our last one.
-You said that you often set up an electric drum machine at home and make drum arrangements while playing, is this the same style you used for "Oboro" and the new songs you were working on?
Shinya: When I'm thinking of drum phrases, I don't use an electric drum but just use the mouse. In the past, I used to focus on the basic groove of the song, and I used to add drum phrases while actually playing the drums. But the period of thinking while playing is over now…
-I didn't know you had such a time frame in mind (laughs). Thinking with the mouse is a way of avoiding the first days of DTM, isn't it?
Shinya: Yes, it's the way we did it in the beginning. I think the period of time I was thinking about it while I was in the city changed my way of thinking about drum place. It's hard to describe it in words (laughs).
-I'll take care of that. I'm a subscriber to the Shinya Channel, so be nice to me (lol).
Shinya: Well, I guess I should say I've got it all figured out. I've learned about the advantages of using an electric drum and the differences between using a mouse and thinking with an electric drum, and now I'm able to create phrases and grooves with just a mouse while playing the electric drum, so I think it's not a problem. I can now type in rhythms and phrases with the same time signature as if I were actually playing.
-Do you find it easier to come up with something unexpected by not thinking of phrases as you play?
Shinya: Yes, one of the advantages of playing the piano is that you can create phrases that you can't edit. You can create phrases that you can't edit with your own hands. That's why I started thinking about drum arrangements by typing with the mouse in the early days. In this song "Oboro", I used the mouse a lot in the A melody and other phrases. The demo phrases that I came up with using only the mouse were much stronger and weaker, but when I actually played them on live drums, I couldn't get that level of intensity.
-Do you mean simply the volume?
Shinya: That's right. The core of each sound has to come out properly in live drums, so even if you add a strong instrument, if it's too weak, the core won't come out. The image was different from the one I had in the mouse, but it turned out good, so I didn't have any trouble. I also thought a lot about the guitar in the drum braise of "Oboro". It's the solo part.
-It's a drum approach that is making a difference.
Shinya: Yes. I tried to make a good movement when I hit it. The form of the striking and the movement of the arms are flowing.
-You have a large number of cymbals anyway, and they are set up around the effects cymbals. Effect cymbals have a shorter blue sustain than normal cymbals. That's why when you use a lot of cymbals, do you consider the tendency of the sound of each cymbal and the length of the sustain while constructing the phrase itself?
Shinya: That's what I'm trying to do, to make it so that it's smooth and the previous movements flow. But when we were recording, we didn't talk about it that much. At the live show, I think "I used this cymbal on the recording, but I'll use that cymbal at the live show", so at the live show, I try to pursue the movement more.
-You‘re a drummer who can go beyond. You mentioned that you bring the same cymbals and settings to your recordings as you do live?
Shinya: There are as many cymbals as there are live, but the tycoons are more like two thimbles, two toms and one floor. It's a set of two toms and one floor.
-I think it's important to be careful when making drum sounds.
Shinya: Yes, it is. The drums are the most important part of the sound. I leave it to the tuner. I asked the tuner to listen to a demo of a drum phrase that I typed in with my mouse, and then I asked him to create a drum sound that would fit the phrase. I didn't start working with the drum tuner on recordings until 2019 (The World of Mercy), and he also joined me on several occasions during the tour. The sound on that tour was so good that we started asking them to play on 'The World of Mercy'. It's easier to make a good sound in a live setting, but if the tuner can make a sound that I'm happy with, then I can trust him for the recording. For the recording of "Oboro", they tuned it to the sound I had imagined from the beginning.
-I get the impression that you always do your recordings without getting bogged down, but this time?
Shinya: Just like that. We also recorded the coupling song "T.D.F.F." at that time, but we didn't get stuck. But I recorded it part by part, so it took a bit longer. If I'm happy with the intro, I'll go on to the A melody, and so on, starting from the beginning of the song. It takes a lot of concentration to record each part. Also, sometimes the song isn't written until the day before, so I haven't memorised the phrases yet (laughs). The structure of "Oboro" wasn't even ready until the day before we recorded it. So when I played it, I put the recording side by side and concentrated on each part.
-What did you think of the coupling track "T.D.F.F."?
Shinya: I didn't change much in terms of drum phrases, but I tried to give it a bit more energy. As a result, there are a little less detailed snare phrases than on the original version.
-When you do a self-remake, do you tend to go in with a different stance than the original?
Shinya: It depends on how it's arranged. If the whole arrangement is completely different, I'll consider it a controversial piece and work on it. But basically, I try not to change the original phrases. When SUGIZO joined X JAPAN, he said, "Classical phrases are all different depending on the performer, even if the phrases are not changed“ . That's why SUGIZO said he was playing the same phrases as HIDE. That's why I want to show that although the phrases are the same, they are actually different.
-It's all luck. Even though the phrases are the same, each note is different, and this progression is the growth.
Shinya: Yes. It's a bit embarrassing to call it growth, but I think it's different even though it's the same phrase. But there are things that only the ward of that time could do, but there are also things that only the ward of today can do.
-What mode are you in as a drummer in 2021?
Shinya: I don't really think about it, I just want to play a good drum.
-When I started thinking about the phrases in Mouse, it was also the time when the Band started performing and touring overseas, and the Band's drummers and musicians that I played with at festivals and other events were always saying, "The drums in DIR EN GREY are so circular and amazing. I wondered if Shinya had some kind of special meaning behind the way he phrased the songs“ .
Shinya: Even if I say I've gone back, the way I put it on is completely different from back then. I was thinking of doing something complicated back then, but now I'm thinking of making it as simple as possible. I'm saying that now, but I think it will change depending on what kind of new songs I'm going to play. I'm going to release "Oboro" as a single, but I don't think you can see the spirit of the album from this song alone, in fact I think the album will have a completely different feel. In addition to "Oboro", the other songs on the album will have more impact in the direction of things. I may have done something uncomplicated before the drums... (laughs).
-By the way, today was the first time you met your fans in Osaka, are you getting more excited about the show?
Shinya: Yes, I am. We're going to play to an audience on May 6th, but after that we don't know what will happen. So I'm going to do it with the mindset that it might be my last live. I'm looking forward to seeing how it will be expressed in the actual live performance.
Let's start with an interview with Kaoru, the main composer of the Band. He has been steering the Band in the direction of what he feels is new and interesting musically, but in what mode has he been working on the music now, and how did he complete the new song "Oboro"?
Nothing is interesting if it's exactly what you think it is at the beginning, but it becomes interesting if you think "it could look like this" and continue drawing.
-Since we're doing this remotely, I'm also curious about where you are now... Is it your home studio?
Kaoru: It's like a studio, a place where I write songs and draw pictures.
-A place where you can concentrate on one work. Have you had a studio for quite some time?
Kaoru: About five years ago. I've been using it since I started writing songs for 'The Insulated World' (released September 2018).
-I'm also curious about the monitor screen behind you, which I assume you're still writing songs on.
Kaoru: No, this is just the data for "Oboro". There's also a guitar in the composition.
-It's a studio that you can use freely 24 hours a day, are you the type of person who sets aside time to write songs?
Kaoru: Basically, I do, but it depends on the moment. When I'm in the mood, I don't need to set a time to write.
-I've heard that you've been writing songs for your next album for quite some time?
Kaoru: Yes. We started writing songs before we had finished "The Insulated World." I don't know if they will end up on the album or not, but I started writing them anyway.
-The style of your previous work was also key in terms of what inspired you to write a song and how you think about it, but what did you see in "The Insulated World“ that made you want to pursue it further?
Kaoru: To put it simply, I wanted to create something more intense. The last album was made with the intention of creating something intense, and the album before that "ARCHE" (released in December 2014), was a straightforward package of what we had created at that time. For the next album, I want to make sure that the songs I've chosen are the only ones I can think of. In that sense, I want to make a very intense album. I don't want it to be an intense album, or a slow album, or anything like that, but I want it to be a whole piece of work.
-Do you write your songs with the whole album in mind, rather than just one song at a time?
Kaoru: Yes, that's true. But when we first started writing the songs, I had a feeling about it, but I hadn't told the band yet.
-What kind of sounds and phrases come to you as a starting point when you are conscious of wanting to make something strong?
Kaoru: The way we create doesn't change much. It doesn't matter what the starting point is. I just start writing and then somewhere along the line I start to betray myself. I'll put in a phrase that sounds different. It's all about making the song more interesting. It's more like if you start off with the right idea, the song won't expand from there. I'm trying to find songs where I can find the unexpected.
-Do you also do some kind of input work to draw your own inspiration?
Kaoru: I do input, but I don't know if it's open or not. When I sit down in my studio and think "Come on, let's do it", I don't really think about anything else.
-Do you feel that starting to draw together has given some kind of feedback to your music?
Kaoru: I thought there would be, but not really (laughs). It's still the same, both in terms of salary and songs. If I tried to create it myself, I'd end up thinking in a very unorthodox way. The more I draw, the more I think the same way as I do when I write songs. It's not interesting if it's exactly what I had in mind from the start, but if I start drawing randomly and when something comes out, I think "it could look like this", and then I go on with it and it becomes interesting.
-So you don't like the fact that you can predict what you are going to do?
Kaoru: Yes. But in the case of a song, you can say "I've tried it, but I think I'll redo it", but with a picture, once you've put in one stroke, you can say "Oh, it's not the same", so the tension is different in that respect.
-Returning to the subject of one song, last year DIR EN GREY released "Ochita Koto no Aru Sora" as a download. When was this song born?
Kaoru: Last spring...well, it's been around for a while. It was a song that we had been working on. We reworked it and made it again.
-Were you in the mode of "I want to make it strong" from that point on?
Kaoru: I think we were in that mode, but I have an image of that song as a single, so it's a bit different. I wanted to put it together as a single, but with an unexpected twist. So it's a mixture of mellow, loud and core.
-But I think you felt you were able to move forward with one new song. Was there anything that came out of that?
Kaoru: It's still like we're trying to get our hands on something that's shrouded in mist. I'm still struggling with it.
-From what point did you start to make "This Single"?
Kaoru: Unusually for me, I started with a chord progression. I thought it would make a beautiful song. But as a song it was just a chord progression and I didn't have a definitive image yet. So I gave the members a listen to the song and said "Let's try it".
-Did you write the chord progressions while playing the guitar?
Kaoru: No, the keyboard. I thought it would be easier to understand the development of the song if I added the guitar when I played it for the members, so I did, but I hadn't added it before.
-A single keyboard is an instrument that makes it easy to visually see how the notes are stacked. Do you find it easier to move on to something unexpected if you use such an instrument?
Kaoru: When I'm creating phrases on the keyboard, I'm only imagining how the song will go. It's not that I'm trying to make the sound pile up purely because it's on the keyboard, but simply because it's easier to see than playing the guitar. This was especially true for "Oboro" and nowadays I always review the notes once on the keyboard. I also created "The World of Mercy" (released in September 2019) on the keyboard at first. When I added guitars to it, the song changed drastically.
-"Oboro" is finished in an arrangement that incorporates strings, but is the rough phrase of strings in your head from the beginning?
Kaoru: I didn't include it in the demo stage. In fact, I was thinking of not including it. But when I created the guitar solo and was thinking about what to do before it, I came up with the idea of strings. I put them in, and it worked out well, so I decided to put strings in the second half as well.
-So the guitar solo led to the string arrangement.
Kaoru: To put it coolly, yes (laughs). For a while we were trying to get rid of the guitar solo, but recently we've been trying to add the flavor of the guitar solo to the songs. I was struggling with this until about halfway through, when I really thought the guitar solo was necessary. Even now, there are times when I don't think it's necessary. But this is the same idea I had when I started adding guitar solos again. I grew up with that kind of music, and I was always impressed by the cool guitar solos of my favorite artists. I don't think solos are really necessary in this day and age, but as long as it's not too dull, it's okay. That's why I think about the phrases I use in my solos, but it's not like I have any deep feelings about them.
-When you were thinking about the phrases and melody for the guitar solo, did you have a song in mind yet?
Kaoru: I had a tentative song in mind, but I hadn't finished the verses yet.
-Oh, really? It's a solo with a melody and tone that fits the color of the poem very well.
Kaoru: So maybe it was my mouth that called up this poem (laughs).
-I'll say it, brother!
Kaoru: That's a lie, a lie (laughs). When I was thinking about the guitar solo, I felt like I was drawing a picture. I was trying to figure out what kind of sound I wanted the chords to make while creating a certain atmosphere. It's like I'm trying to figure out what emotion I want to put into it. The general idea was to keep the first phrase as it was, but change the nuances in the details.
It's limited, so you can't do something like a power collision, but it will surely be a live that is nothing but DIR EN GREY's live.
-You're a real romantic when you can get away with this kind of melody and arrangement.
Kaoru: Yeah, that's right (laughs).
-Another thing I noticed was how few guitar tracks there were. Is this a result of your desire for a change in the construction of the sound?
Kaoru: I think a lot of people feel that this song is easy to understand, but we just didn't make it easy to hear everything. If you listen to it carefully, it's actually not an easy song to understand at all...let's just say that (laughs). If you listen to it thinking that you can hear everything that is in it, you will never hear it. In fact, there are many "sounds" that are far away. I put them in such a way that you can't hear them. So I'm trying to make you feel it. I think the guitars in this song are meant to be felt. I don't want you to listen to it, but to feel it. That's why it doesn't come out with a bang, but there's something there. The number of tracks is smaller than in the days of "Dum Spiro Spero" (Continued in August 2011), but I thought it would be more interesting to let the listener hear that there are actually various sounds at key points. In that sense, I want the album to be dense.
-Did you come up with such a clever method while struggling with the music in your secret studio?
Kaoru: I'm basically twisted (laughs). But when I think something is not interesting, I naturally come up with something like that. When the album finally comes out, I think it's OK as long as everything is interesting and fits together. It's not like I haven't done this before, but this time I took the plunge.
-In this case, I think you have to be very careful about sound awards and mix balance. What kind of instructions did you give during the recording process?
Kaoru: I didn't make any detailed instructions. I just recorded it normally, reamped it in the studio, and at the last minute asked the engineer, "This is how I want it". The rest was left to the mix engineer. However, I had already talked with the members at the pre-production stage. I wanted the whole thing to sound like a warble, and the guitars were relatively up front. When it came time to mix it, I tried to make it more of a feeling than a sound.
-Neil Avalon was the mix engineer, was it easy to convey the subtle nuances?
Kaoru: Neil seemed to understand. Even so, it was difficult to convey even the most recognizable nuances, and I had many exchanges.
-You said you were going to have him play the guitar, but could you give us some pointers on "this part is actually the guitar"?
Kaoru: To make it easy to understand, in the A melody, there's a kind of arpeggio that goes back and forth. It's like a single note phrase.
-Is it an echo-like effect with a lot of depth?
Kaoru: Yes, yes. That's the one that's actually getting straightened out little by little (laughs). But you can't tell unless you listen carefully. The first shot is a bit choppy, so you can understand it, but the second half is very year-round and you may not understand it. It's interesting to understand.
-As I unraveled Oboro, using what you taught me as a hint, I felt like I was getting deeper and deeper into it.
Kaoru: Yes, I think it will be fun, so please listen carefully. Well, I'll try not to make you sit down (laughs).
-I'm a passenger, though, lol.
Kaoru: It's just something I came up with. But it wouldn't be interesting to have a song where everything is played, or where all the voices are heard, or where all the sounds of the five players must be heard because it's a band. If that's the case, then the guitar doesn't have to be played loudly.
-Did completing this song make what you wanted to do for the album clearer?
Kaoru: It's just that now that "Oboro" is done, I don't think there will be any more songs like this one (laughs). But we originally wrote this song as a ballad, and the album's ballad will be released as a single first. "Oboro" exists in my mind only as a single song, so I think I need a song with a different selection.
-Are you starting to give shape to it?
Kaoru: No, it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of time for me and my team members to get to know each other. It's hard to find something that says, "Oh, you don't have to think that hard". So I try not to think about it (laughs).
-That's just like Dr. Den who is in album production mode (laughs). I always send the best car with the best machine to the landing place.
Kaoru: It's true. I can't decide, or rather I don't want to decide. I want to use the possibilities to the fullest as they grow. The members say to me, "Shouldn't you decide what kind of album you want to make?“ I usually answer, "No, I'd like to keep it a little more vague“. This always lasts until the second half of the album production (laughs).
-Since last year you haven't been able to perform live as much as you'd like, does that put you in a better frame of mind to concentrate on writing songs?
Kaoru: We haven't toured for a year now, we used to tour twice a year. Now I think there were hints in the casual conversations I had with the members in the dressing rooms before the gigs. I would get an idea for a song from a casual conversation, like "this song might fit this way". So I think it would be better if I had a chance to talk to the band members.
-Conversations with the members are different during the writing period and in the dressing room. In the dressing room, they might express their honest opinions, so it's easier to understand what they are thinking about.
Kaoru: Yes, that's true. It's hard to see because we don't have that now.
-Is your biggest input from your members?
Kaoru: I want to make decisions myself, but there are many things I can't decide. If the members say "it's good", I think "oh, it's good". I don't know if it's the right answer on my own.
-At the audience concert in May, I was asked to start by talking with the 5 members in the dressing room.
Kaoru: I don't think we have time for that (laughs). It's been a long time since I've been to a live concert.
-When the magazine goes on sale, the live performance will be in a few days. It's been a long time since you've done a live power exchange with the audience, how are you feeling now?
Kaoru: I sent my ideas for the setlist to the members just the other day, but no one responded, so I don't know if they think it's okay or if they'll think about it after rehearsal (laughs). I'm not sure how that will feel. But I'm not worried at all. I'm sure it will be nothing but a DIR EN GREY concert. Also, in a situation like this, everyone has their own opinion, and it doesn't mean that those who come to see the show are right. It will be the first one, or the beginning, or if it is the first step to get something, it will be the second step, so I would like to think about it after we try it.
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