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@fhazel27
The reason I am harder on TADC than some other shows, is that it is talking about themes of mental illness, abuse and suicide. I am going to look a lot more critically at a story with those themes than one that is simply supposed to be a fun romp.
These themes have consequence, and if you want to seriously discuss them, you have to take care.
Iām not really sure what TADC is trying to say about community.
At first it seems that community is how you survive the circus. Isolating yourself like Kaufmo and Jax is how you abstract.
Then Jax has people remain by his side even through his toxic behavior, and he keeps pushing them away. Which yeah! People certainly do that! And that seems to be the tragedy of Jaxās character.
But then you have Caine. Caine getsā¦ completely better in a vacuum. Quite literally! No one reaches out to him, no one encourages him. The only thing he gets from the humans is criticism and instruction. It seems the moral of Caineās story is:
āDo the self improvement on your own and when you are better you will be worthy of community.ā
It doesnāt land for me.
Found my issue: It is treated as a good thing that the humans continue to be there for Jax because despite his harmful behavior he is one of them and is struggling. It is not presented as a bad thing that they never extend the same grace to Caine.
One aspect that highlights this is TADC's treatment of Ribbit. It's implied that Jax's rejection of Ribbit is the trigger that leads to her abstraction, but it's implied that Ragatha is Ribbit's friend as well.
No one knew Kinger becomes sane in the dark, so it's possible that Ribbit never had a close relationship with him. Gooseworx herself said that Kaufmo was in the dark, so for the sake of this argument he is off the list of people who can help.
Ragatha was close enough with Jax to ask about how he was feeling after Ribbit's abstraction. How was she not close enough to Ribbit to check up on her before things went this far?
Even then, Pomni was there for Jax, Again and again, and it didn't save him. While I agree in real life, too many things get in the way from actually saving someone. But here in the circus? It's so insulated that I can't see a reason for why this didn't save Jax. Even that moment where Jax tried to talk to Pomni but he ended up pulling away. Did it really come down to Pomni not pushing further? Is the point of that scene that Jax wouldn't have abstracted if Pomni pushed further? Everyone knew he was at risk of it, even Zooble made a comment about it.
I love TADC, but there's so many moments where the characterization would make the plot impossible. I think that TADC wants to say something about community and mental health, but it misunderstands community on a fundamental level.
Iām not really sure what TADC is trying to say about community.
At first it seems that community is how you survive the circus. Isolating yourself like Kaufmo and Jax is how you abstract.
Then Jax has people remain by his side even through his toxic behavior, and he keeps pushing them away. Which yeah! People certainly do that! And that seems to be the tragedy of Jaxās character.
But then you have Caine. Caine getsā¦ completely better in a vacuum. Quite literally! No one reaches out to him, no one encourages him. The only thing he gets from the humans is criticism and instruction. It seems the moral of Caineās story is:
āDo the self improvement on your own and when you are better you will be worthy of community.ā
It doesnāt land for me.
Found my issue: It is treated as a good thing that the humans continue to be there for Jax because despite his harmful behavior he is one of them and is struggling. It is not presented as a bad thing that they never extend the same grace to Caine.
A lot of things in this show that are problematic are treated as a good thing, including Pomni's savior complex, Caine basically lobotomizing himself and becoming subdued, and everyone antagonizing an already mentally unwell AI who was on the verge of breaking. It's really gross...
Iām not really sure what TADC is trying to say about community.
At first it seems that community is how you survive the circus. Isolating yourself like Kaufmo and Jax is how you abstract.
Then Jax has people remain by his side even through his toxic behavior, and he keeps pushing them away. Which yeah! People certainly do that! And that seems to be the tragedy of Jaxās character.
But then you have Caine. Caine getsā¦ completely better in a vacuum. Quite literally! No one reaches out to him, no one encourages him. The only thing he gets from the humans is criticism and instruction. It seems the moral of Caineās story is:
āDo the self improvement on your own and when you are better you will be worthy of community.ā
It doesnāt land for me.
Thatās like the main problem I have, plus that the cast seems to both dehumanize Caine and expect a human standard of morality and compassion from him. That wouldāve been fine, and a great way to show the charactersā flaws, but thereās never a moment where the series shows us that the humans now have an understanding of Caine, or that they ever learn that he wasnāt ill-intentioned before episode 8.
Theyāre so isolated from him in the narrative, thereās a ton of miscommunication between them all and itās like itās only resolved on Caineās side, on his own. Which, along with the problems already addressed here, is also incredibly boring.
The cherry on top I think is this line: āIn this world, the worst thing you can do is... make someone think they're not wanted or loved.ā Were we supposed to do something with this?? It feels like something that should matter, but I donāt really feel itās exemplified. Youād really think the narrative would come back around to it considering this is exactly what they (INCLUDING KINGER) have unintentionally done to Caine.
The little instant-acceptance we get for Caine feels so forced too. They show the happy little friendship montage where everyoneās 100% getting along, but I canāt believe in its sincerity at all because the narrative has done NOTHING to convince me that the humans understand Caine now or see him as a person.
Iām not really sure what TADC is trying to say about community.
At first it seems that community is how you survive the circus. Isolating yourself like Kaufmo and Jax is how you abstract.
Then Jax has people remain by his side even through his toxic behavior, and he keeps pushing them away. Which yeah! People certainly do that! And that seems to be the tragedy of Jaxās character.
But then you have Caine. Caine getsā¦ completely better in a vacuum. Quite literally! No one reaches out to him, no one encourages him. The only thing he gets from the humans is criticism and instruction. It seems the moral of Caineās story is:
āDo the self improvement on your own and when you are better you will be worthy of community.ā
It doesnāt land for me.
Found my issue: It is treated as a good thing that the humans continue to be there for Jax because despite his harmful behavior he is one of them and is struggling. It is not presented as a bad thing that they never extend the same grace to Caine.
Draft one of chapter 17 is complete! I am unstoppable!
I have delicious angst on the way!
And I have 1200 words of the next chapter tooā¦ because I am excited for that one
Draft one of chapter 17 is complete! I am unstoppable!
I have delicious angst on the way!
me before i get my paycheck: i'm so excited to spend this on essentials and save the rest wisely
me as soon as that direct deposit hits: you know i've always wanted to learn the theremin
died and came back wrong and no one could tell the difference
died and came back wrong but only to myself. died and came back and nobody noticed i died. died and people think i came back better. died and came back wrong only in a specific sense of "wrong". died and fought like hell to come back and everyone thinks it was easy. died and came back mentally wrong and physically fine and tearing myself apart from the inside. died and hiding everything that went wrong. died and trying so hard to show what is wrong and nobody notices.
hey Caine TADC writers-
Iām not really sure what TADC is trying to say about community.
At first it seems that community is how you survive the circus. Isolating yourself like Kaufmo and Jax is how you abstract.
Then Jax has people remain by his side even through his toxic behavior, and he keeps pushing them away. Which yeah! People certainly do that! And that seems to be the tragedy of Jaxās character.
But then you have Caine. Caine getsā¦ completely better in a vacuum. Quite literally! No one reaches out to him, no one encourages him. The only thing he gets from the humans is criticism and instruction. It seems the moral of Caineās story is:
āDo the self improvement on your own and when you are better you will be worthy of community.ā
It doesnāt land for me.
Hope you don't mind me dropping a fresh ramble onto your askbox haha
It's kinda sad how the whole blue ai thing was meant to be " quit pushing and fixing yourself up to a burnout and instead accept your flawed self" but the execution ends up being easy to read as. well. the exact opposite lmao
Imo a way to solve this while keeping the scene would be as simple as having Kinger drop "our other ais gave profitable results but Caine was simply something else, unpredictable and almost... alive". Well, not exactly like that but a clue that Caine's defect is his sapience or tied to it, while the blue ai does its work efficiently and unthinkingly. And also drop clues as for how its harmful for Caine to use it so much.
As for the route of Blue being a character, I've seen many takes and plenty are great (hi Abel š¦). Personally i dislike when they're made into a vessel for Caine's ill feelings towards the humans and in general, its such a cheap cop-out that waters down both ais as characters and leaves out Caine's role as the original aggressor. Plus it can also lean into the "evil personality that must be removed!!!" trope... Which the aforementioned scene lends itself into even if it's not intended, alas.
I'm usually a fan of leaving blanks for the viewer to fill in, but there's too much ambiguity in canon about the nature of the blue ai, and this along many other things end up muddling the message of Caine's arc.
I always love rambles in my inbox. Never feel bad about sending them.
Iāve come to believe Goose wanted to tell Jaxās story and kinda wanted to tell Caineās, but didnāt want to dedicate the time it would actually take to write his story (because it involves a bunch of lore and I think they already decided on a short story. But this is conjecture I could be wrong).
Because of this a lot of his visuals just fell short of what the narrative was trying to say. Even the office crash out scene it beautifully animated, but story wise itās confusing (for instance they have Caine hanging like a puppet after they just revealed his is a composite of two AIs BUT he hasnāt been taken over by the other AI. I have other problems with that scene).
The story isnāt very interested in what the Blue AI is which is disappointing, just so many cool ideas with Caine donāt get explored like they should.
But yeah I love most fandom interpretations of Abel. Sometimes I have to kinda avoid them because when Iām writing I need to have my Abel clear in my mind, and I donāt want to mix him with other interpretations (itās very easy to make my Abel too clinical when he does have a soft side).
My pet peeve when episode 8 first came out was making Abel the empathetic good sibling because I saw a lot of that.
Canāt say itās my favorite when heās straight up evil either but some fics have given me absolutely delicious Whump so I canāt complain too much.
But yeah I really wanted the blue ai explored more. Itās never even confirmed if heās Bubble is it?
Yeah, once again the biggest weakness of the show comes from it's structuring and pacing. The setting simply doesn't lends itself to Jax's story naturally unlike Caine, and they didn't had time to explore the two thesis both characters proposed.
And yeah, Caine already has lots of interesting premises that go nowhere, Abel is straight up the potential ai lol. The many faces of šµ.... I've even seen interesting crossover aus with Able being baby AM lmao. I guess i dodged most of the pure good slibing blue takes during release (which yeah sounds like a convenient way to make Caine the evil slibing. Lmao).
Iirc there was a tumblr post by Goose mentioning how Bubble is not the blue ai. I don't have it at hand but considering we see that inert bubble alongside Caine in the void. But it leaves the question in the air of why Bubble exists and why is he so linked to Caine he speaks his suppressed thoughts. *Shrugs* at least we got headcanons
Youāre so right about the setting. It naturally leads to lore and Caineās story. You could tell Jaxās story anywhere really.
Iāll always be mad at sci fi shows who have the most fascinating non human charactersā¦ and then choose to focus on the humans. Like why tease me with such beautiful ideas only to focus on Bob the Human?
Hope you don't mind me dropping a fresh ramble onto your askbox haha
It's kinda sad how the whole blue ai thing was meant to be " quit pushing and fixing yourself up to a burnout and instead accept your flawed self" but the execution ends up being easy to read as. well. the exact opposite lmao
Imo a way to solve this while keeping the scene would be as simple as having Kinger drop "our other ais gave profitable results but Caine was simply something else, unpredictable and almost... alive". Well, not exactly like that but a clue that Caine's defect is his sapience or tied to it, while the blue ai does its work efficiently and unthinkingly. And also drop clues as for how its harmful for Caine to use it so much.
As for the route of Blue being a character, I've seen many takes and plenty are great (hi Abel š¦). Personally i dislike when they're made into a vessel for Caine's ill feelings towards the humans and in general, its such a cheap cop-out that waters down both ais as characters and leaves out Caine's role as the original aggressor. Plus it can also lean into the "evil personality that must be removed!!!" trope... Which the aforementioned scene lends itself into even if it's not intended, alas.
I'm usually a fan of leaving blanks for the viewer to fill in, but there's too much ambiguity in canon about the nature of the blue ai, and this along many other things end up muddling the message of Caine's arc.
I always love rambles in my inbox. Never feel bad about sending them.
Iāve come to believe Goose wanted to tell Jaxās story and kinda wanted to tell Caineās, but didnāt want to dedicate the time it would actually take to write his story (because it involves a bunch of lore and I think they already decided on a short story. But this is conjecture I could be wrong).
Because of this a lot of his visuals just fell short of what the narrative was trying to say. Even the office crash out scene it beautifully animated, but story wise itās confusing (for instance they have Caine hanging like a puppet after they just revealed his is a composite of two AIs BUT he hasnāt been taken over by the other AI. I have other problems with that scene).
The story isnāt very interested in what the Blue AI is which is disappointing, just so many cool ideas with Caine donāt get explored like they should.
But yeah I love most fandom interpretations of Abel. Sometimes I have to kinda avoid them because when Iām writing I need to have my Abel clear in my mind, and I donāt want to mix him with other interpretations (itās very easy to make my Abel too clinical when he does have a soft side).
My pet peeve when episode 8 first came out was making Abel the empathetic good sibling because I saw a lot of that.
Canāt say itās my favorite when heās straight up evil either but some fics have given me absolutely delicious Whump so I canāt complain too much.
But yeah I really wanted the blue ai explored more. Itās never even confirmed if heās Bubble is it?
died and came back wrong but people like him better now
THIS IS SUCH A COOL CONCEPT ā”ā”ā”
Crying this is the end i wished, I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the abandoment parallels, people on the internet be out there gaslighting it's actually good to abandond the (evil sibling?)(blue dot?)(bubble?)(abel?). I get the it's his god like power interpretations, but i just didn't see it as that when i watched it.
He was letting go of someone, you don't call power "buddy", nor your imperfections (some suggested that as if it was a good thing), and that read is even more problematic, like let go of the resentful part of you? Of your neurodivergence? Of what makes you human, so you can get accept by humans because they expect you to be a one dimentional ai being?
I hate that scene so much, and like this one so so much better, it is actual growth to break generational circles, to learn to coesist with another being without chocking the life out of them while still loving them so intentionally, and if blue us supposed to be some inner part of caine, learning to accept all of yourself, even the unlovable parts, would be such a better lesson. And it's not about listening to your anger and going apeshit, it's about accepting it's a part of you that is trying for you - lashing out because you've been hurt, and with that knowledge you can right your wrongs and advocate for a better treatment, and in the real world it would motive one to go to therapy and see the root of the problems, never to extirpate the part that's been hurt, but to heal it; but they are not in the macroverse so maybe talking to each other, thought I doubt anyone would be willing to help caine, considering how they treated him pre crash out, the humans would need to accept that Caine is both fundamentally different from them, and should not be socially othered.
The higher needs autism metaphor is right here, i swear.
Made this back in July and decided to post it.
(First post)
I see a lot of folks defending their vitriolic repugnance towards toddlers with cries of "but my sensory needs!" as if children are not also in possession of sensory needs. As if you, an adult here on Tumblr.com, do not have the capability and resources to learn the skills or acquire aids for coping with competing access needs. Or, y'know, just the option to leave, the way children most often do not.
You're holding an actual child to higher standards than you hold yourself, but it's the child that should be removed from public and community spaces. For your comfort.
Go fuck yourselves.
