One Hundred Arms Grasping In The Dark

She/her | Blog for rambling

[formlessnight]

If voicelines are like, a canon diegetic element of Deltarunes world, how do they work any differently to speaking?

Like, wouldn’t they just sound like regular talking to a character within the game itself? And yet even Susie, with no little to no meta knowledge, knows and hears the difference in Flowery when they are turned off.

This is tripping me up, Menus are least explained as another layer to reality that you can see sometimes if you try. But do characters within the fiction of Deltarune just see the text of dialogue boxes and the text sounds when normally speaking?

[formlessnight]

Given the revelation that there have been Dark worlds in the past, and given that it seems likely Dess made them (at least one, given one confirmed was cyber city which is very connected to her), AND given that a human soul would’ve still been needed to close them (plus some implications that Kris has been in darkworlds before chapter 1) I must imagine Dess Kris (and asriel?) had Dark world adventures of their own in the past

There needs to be more fanart of this, i will do what i can.

[formlessnight]

Its kinda sad if you read into the fact that both times Kris has made a Dark world they know will potentially be used for the Knight to kidnap one of their parents, the manifested leader of each dark world (born from the will of the person making it) both times has been a powerful darkner deeply and strongly personally invested with keeping that parent as safe and happy as possible.

[formlessnight]

I definitely find Kris’s relationship to each of the flowers interesting.

I agree with wider sentiment that each (maybe minus flowery?) represent aspects of Kris as a whole.

I’ve seen people try to draw a deeper connection between Aqua and Kris specifically, but i mostly just think the reason for the similarities is that Aqua represents a kind of carefree and childish “play” for Kris, being the reason their darkworld form has a similar colour pallet, because the darkworlds are a form of play. I think that even explains things like Aqua’s similarities to both Jevil and even ERAM, both being symbolic of ideas of freedom and play, both even potentially being made by Kris, if you think Kris made the first chapters fountain that is.

Seth obviously parallels them in an intellectual sense, Kris is both shown to be fairly smart at school, being the third best in class, and serves as the fun gang strategist/leader. Though is also slightly insecure in that role maybe. Obviously Seth parallels Kris in terms of gender too, being explicitly somewhere on the non-binary spectrum.

Green is fairly basic too in some respects. Obviously Kris knows how to bake, specifically learning it from Toriel, so it makes sense that they might associate that part of themselves with Kindness. Green is also non-verbal, and while its hard to say how non-verbal Kris usually is, as we don’t see them much out of our control, its certainly implied based on dialogue from Noelle that Kris is a quiet person normally.

Orange is obvious in the fact that she parallels Kris’s uncomfortable relationship to their humanity and the insecurity they feel about it. Orange insists they are human like the others, but has the “wrong parts”, and in general feels very insecure about a lot of aspects of herself. This insecurity also manifests as hostility, which feels fitting for Kris as well. Theres even a parallel in the fact shes a mouse, something Noelle used to be afraid of, like she was afraid somewhat of “humans under her bed” as a child. She even doesn’t like Ralsei, who makes her particularly insecure, which if Ralsei is Kris’ childhood monster-sona as the theory goes, would make a lot of sense.

People have already pinned Yellow as a manifestation in part of Kris’s guilt. Already we know Kris has double allegiances, and seems deeply conflicted by them. Similar to how Yellow is easily put into a state extreme guilt and personal responsibility to which the only solution is self-punishment. Certainly Kris also is in a state of self-punishment, if you consider that they took on the soul willingly, a soul which forces their actions, and which they will willingly go long periods without to carry out their plans, which seems borderline fatal based on the chapters opening.

Blue has a direct parallel to Kris’ initial title in this chapter being the “Blue Rose”, Blue certainly shows similar traits to Kris’s own flirting and charming nature, as they are explicitly good at flirting. Blue is a bit harder to pin down though, we don’t get much screen-time with him.

Pink isn’t a flower, but people have pointed out how she parallels Kris and the soul specifically. I dont have much to add on that front.

I’ve mentioned gender for some of them, but basically all of them defy or deviate from gender norms. Aqua barely seems to know what names or gender is, Seth and Green are they/them, yellow doesn’t really seem to care, Blue is heavily gender non-conforming.

Also notable how each fail somewhat at their assigned trait, Aqua isn’t at all patient, Seth isn’t really very Perseverant running away quite easily, Orange isn’t brave, Yellow sucks at delivering justice, and Blue does lack integrity at times, acting morally mighty but still lying and fighting the fun gang at the end. Green is kind, but also cant commit to any side because of it, and does harm because of it.

And it makes sense why Kris is the one standing against them at the end, matching even the flowers combined strength, as Kris kinda IS their combined strength.

There obviously more to analyse here, I’ve only played the chapter once. So if anyone else has thoughts i’d be interested to hear.

[formlessnight]

Did anyone else take note of this? Cause it scared the fuck outta me, so ominous, but i haven’t seen anyone talk about it.

[formlessnight]

I loved this chapter of deltarune, it tried to be very fun and silly and it was, and that resulted in a lot of fun new characters and dynamics and visuals and great moments in general. The secret boss was amazing, the gameplay was great, the characters were perfect.

…but im of the opinion that it kinda bungles the pacing of the whole game.

Like, chapter 3 already was very much the “one last proper lighthearted adventure before we step into the darker and grander elements of the story” which fit perfectly with chapter 4, which brought to light so much new conflict, so many new stakes, exposed so many new mysteries, and had the characters meaningfully grow and learn.

In chapter 4 every character feels so serious, but in a way which develops naturally.

In chapter 5 nothing feels serious. Susie feels a lot less serious, in a way which is really jarring to the way she developed last chapter, Ralsei’s arc isn’t bad, but its treated quite goofily a lot of the time throughout. The stakes feel low through a lot of it, the threat of the knight, the roaring, Kris’s double allegiances, Ralseis secrets, the prophecy, the danger it all presents, it all feels really distant -almost absent- compared to last chapter.

I knew going in that on some level this would be the last calm before the storm, the whole “lets have one last adventure before the sun goes down” but to be honest i thought that meant the looming darkness would be felt at least. That this chapter would be the gang trying to have an adventure while the dread of whats to come seeps in throughout, the anticipation of what Susie and Ralsei know is coming, what Kris knows is coming.

But its almost not there at all…

It tries somewhat with Asgore, but it starts that quite late, and barely shows much of him for a lot of its duration, and solves his problems quickly at the end.

And i kinda feel like chapter 3 had a more dread over it in general, the sword route was ominous, the dread of Tenna slowly taking things too far, etc. This chapter genuinely felt the most lighthearted out of almost every single one, and its the 5th.

Also its weird route is probably the most dark of any chapter, but its hard to give it points for that when it ends so quick.

Even the secret boss, ok i would never say anything bad about mew mew, Toby fox’s most perfect creation, I loved fighting her at every turn, i was overjoyed to see her. But again, so unlike the tone of every other secret boss, which often carried such grand implications for the world and story. That would’ve been fine if not for the fact that no other part of the chapter picks up the slack.

In conclusion, this chapter was brilliant, no doubt, I liked a lot of it.

But its really out of place in my opinion.

[formlessnight]

Flowery is the perfect character, i love how much he sucks, he sucks so bad at least two characters improved themselves explicitly because they didn’t want to be like him.

He tries so hard to be charming and it literally never works once in-universe, except on Susie somewhat, but shes had like 6 people be nice to her in her life total, her weakness is any positive attention. Even then she thinks he’s a jerk pretty quick.

Thank you mr.fox, never bring him back.

[formlessnight]

Frankly, Noelle should have been in this darkworld.

It just felt to me that Susie’ character this chapter took a bit of a hit, in that her focus on her romance with Noelle throughout the chapter means she isnt really bouncing off of the other characters much, her romance is a very self contained thing, it doesn’t add to or play off her dynamics with Ralsei or Kris much at all. It felt like she was just… less present overall.

This would’ve been fixed if she and Noelle could have interacted throughout, maybe her dynamics with Kris and Ralsei would’ve still taken an unfortunate hit, but it would’ve given her someone to have a dynamic with this chapter.

Susie was such a strong presence in previous chapters, i just didn’t feel that as much here, in the dark world at least.

Again, could just be me

[formlessnight]

“You only need to see her once. And you’ll move on” and other complete lies to tell yourself!

[formlessnight]

Its kinda funny how different interpretations of Kris and Frisk generally are, given the fact that, sprite wise, they are basically identical.

Exact same skin and hair colour, hair style is very similar, though Kris’s is longer.

Obviously Kris has red eyes, but its hard to say about Frisk, given their sprite gives the impression of fully or mostly closed eyes, though that could just be their eye shape. Plus we don’t see Kris’ eyes regularly either, they could usually be similar, though thats speculation.

Personally I’m inclined to the idea that Kris and Frisk are the same, that Kris is the Deltarune Frisk. But even outside of that idea, it seems strange people see them so different. Nothing wrong with that, just interesting.

[formlessnight]

What if instead of being of Kris’s creation made specifically of what they wanted to be as a kid or something similar, Ralsei instead is a dark world manifestation of all of Hometowns positive thoughts and ideas, their desires, you might even say their… hopes and dreams?

Theres just been quite a lot of emphasis on how Asriel specifically is like the whole towns goldenboy, so it would explain the connection between the two, why Ralsei looks like him, because the town itself looks to Asriel as an example of its core ideals.

It even parallels the way Undertale Asriel took on the souls of all of the underground, could feel their hopes and dreams within himself.

I’ve seen theories before about Ralsei being a sort of anti-titan, an incarnation of positivity/comfort as opposed to fear, this would fit pretty well with that.

It would explain why Ralsei is even the prince of the darkworlds, all of hometowns desires which shape the individual darkners fall under Ralsei’s purview as a form of the entire collective desire of the town.

It might be why Ralsei’s outfit kinda resembles the church clothes, a thing that might manifest on the avatar of the collective ideals of a small religious town.

Ralsei also knows a lot about the town, the people in it, knows who Noelle is even though they haven’t properly spoken, who Kris and Susie are before ever meeting them.

I dunno, do i think this theory is absolutely true? I don’t know, I think its an interesting idea to play with, hard to say how much it would fit Ralsei as a character

Also bonus for Transfem Ralsei theory (cause i said so) Hometown does have plenty of trans character for that aspect of Ralsei to draw from, Mettaton and Mad Mew Mew especially currently are shut away and lack confidence to be themselves from what we’ve seen so far. Also Kris, obviously, plus shoutout Dress Lion. And even beyond directly drawing from trans characters of hometown, anyone can struggle to be their authentic selves, Noelle in particular parallels Ralsei in this way. Ralsei drawing on peoples hopes, including the hopes of being able to be who you are, something plenty of Lightners seem to feel.

Plus obviously even in the scope of this theory, Ralsei doesn’t need to draw straight from Light world influence, especially in regards for being potentially being trans, that can just be a thing that is true.

Again, just a fun bit of speculation

[formlessnight]

I feel like a lot of people in the Deltarune fandom don’t fully get Asgore. But im mostly talking about the people expecting some form of cathartic “crash out” from him in chapter 4.

I like Asgore as a character, but what i like about him is his blatant flaws. Toriel at the end of Undertale pacifist is right about Asgore in the sense that he’s prone to falling into stagnation easily, often not very good when it comes to being proactive. Its why he waits for humans to fall down in Undertale and waits at the edge of barrier instead of seeking them out or even crossing the barrier as soon as he had one soul, Its even why in genocide he doesn’t take the other souls to stop you, its why Toriel is right that he didn’t want another human to come, that he couldn’t handle the idea of being free from the Underground.

Its clear he cant really handle change, and while he can be a good guy, he’s not completely morally bankrupt or anything, he has a good heart, he’s also kinda a bad leader when it comes to anything but Morale. In Undertale (and in Deltarune) the people around him ultimately suffer from his stubbornness whether he intends it or not.

The same is true of his situation in Deltarune, he’s become stagnant and stuck in the past because he cant move forward at all. Not all, but honestly most of his current situation is self caused, he’s stuck in his own way. I think the prophecy panel reflects this “the flower man trapped in asylum”. While Asylum is often associated with a mental hospital, more broadly it means a place safety. In that sense Asgore is trapped in the safety of stagnation, the reliability of the past he wont move forward from.

Its probably why his relationship with Toriel fell apart, its why he doesn’t seem to have a relationship with Kris (since that itself would require adapting to his new situation), its why he cant get back on his feet at all.

And him harassing Toriel is some rough shit, I hate watching that, i want him to improve, i believe he can, but his improvement is all self-involved. Nobody has really done this to him, theres nobody to crash out at. He just needs to see that its time to move forward, that it has been for a long time.

And again Asgore has redeeming qualities, this isn’t Asgore slander, but to really appreciate Asgore as a character is to appreciate his flaws, not ignore them.

[formlessnight]

I’ve not seen anyone else talk about the idea that the voice in the code which messed with Kingers attempts to reset Caine and caused him to delete Caine instead might’ve been Scratch.

Not only is the other identified as $ or an S as its username but it seemingly tries to refer to Kinger by his real name, something Scratch would know. It would also make sense for Scratch to want to delete Caine, since Caine messed with his plans for the other AI and the entire program in general seemingly.

Obviously Scratch abstracted but based on the context in which Kinger brings up Scratch as the first abstraction in episode 7, it seems like something was unique about it. He brings it up in the response to Caine saying that if he did more to the humans minds than add temporary modifiers that it “wouldn’t end well”.

Maybe Caine DID try on Scratch, and more than just abstracting regularly, he got trapped in the code itself, or became a part of it, or something similar. At the very least maybe he didn’t have the access himself to delete Caine, so needed to trick Kinger.

The personality of other voice in the code is quite malicious, obvious on it trying to get Caine deleted. Maybe some part of Scratch was always like this, maybe through abstraction itself or Caine messing with his mind he went more crazy.

Maybe if Scratch did abstract physically but can still access the code somewhat, he wants out of the basement where Caine banishes the abstractions, and knows by deleting him he’ll be free from there at least.

Idk, that was just my first thought watching through the episode.

[formlessnight]

Maybe the real reason Caine didn’t want NPC’s to exist outside their allotted adventures was because he was afraid if they got too sapient and existed too long they could potentially overpower him and even usurp/absorb him the way he did to the blue AI in his origins.

I mean, as the “Able” npc in episode 7 asks for a raise from Caine, Caine even says “oh you’re getting too smart, time to delete” hmmmmmmmm

This is my first digital circus post on here but i feel like im onto somethin

[formlessnight]

The only two types of deltarune theory that exist are ones which make sense if you forget that Deltarune is meant to be a satisfying and compelling narrative, and ones which are narratively satisfying if you forget all established characterisation and setup.

Almost every bad theory I see about the Knight is the first kind, almost every bad theory I see about Ralsei is the second kind. Thank you.

[formlessnight]

if the Deltarune community has shown anything its that if Undertale released slowly in chapters Sans is Ness is the exact type of insane theory that would be seriously discussed in a not insignificant part of the theory community.

[formlessnight]

I’ve touched on it before a little, but im really not a fan of the idea that the Knight is Dess but soulless. And its just become so invasive, i see it everywhere.

Mostly I just think its kinda boring and basic. The reason Flowey worked as a compelling villain was that despite being soulless he wasn’t some empty monster who was cruel and selfish because “thats what being soulless does”

He couldn’t feel but it was clear he still could care, maybe not on a fully. emotional level but he could still try in spite of that. I think what we see in the cut Alarm clock dialogue shows that pretty well.

On top of that he didn’t become the way he did just because he was soulless, he tells us about the first loop where he was just scared and confused at what was happening and how empty he felt. But being soulless on top of being in an endless no-consequence time loop situation, plus the trauma of having just lost his best friend to a brutal death before quickly dying a brutal death himself (both of which clearly effected him since a lot of his motivation in the game is based on thinking Frisk is Chara)

I mean he literally ends the first loop taking his own life, he doesn’t know at that point that would reset him. We don’t even know how long he spent looping no consequence before doing anything bad. Before becoming who we see.

Flowey was a really interesting and compelling character who I love, not the least of which is because of the way his character challenges the idea of being soulless as something which makes you an instantly cruel and uncaring irredeemable monster, something a lot of media does.

So i find the notion that Dess as the knight must be soulless kinda sucks ass, the specific way its parroted is used as basically a stand in for compelling motivation. The Knight is doing all that bad stuff because being soulless makes you a chaotic selfish monster who does not care about anything or anyone.

Its not just boring it throws out everything Undertale says through Flowey.

Dess isn’t in a time-loop- i guess she could be, but that would be complete speculation at this point- so it just doesnt make nearly as much sense as it did for Flowey as a character.

This is in the same vein as people acting like Kris and the Knight’s goal is to start the Roaring. Its not, i’ve made a post about this but if they wanted to they could do it whenever they wanted, anytime, starting the roaring is easy, it takes like 3 or 4 fountains and the Knight is clearly capable of making them quickly.

Is it so impossible to imagine, that Toby “has never written a pure evil character even once” Fox might intend for the Knights goal to be more than just some evil scheme? The game even tries to get you to think about it in chapter 4 when Gerson gets Susie to consider why she might think the Knight does what they do. Its clearly done in a pointed way.

Idk I’m just frustrated, I want the Knight to be a interesting and complex character. I get that we don’t have a lot to go off right now for their goal so its easy to resort to assuming its just something basic and evil. But I would personally not love that, i want a character.