Lurking Around Mostly

31 (for now; way too old already) Minors Do Not Follow Please

[swkbiggestdefender]

enough about wukong mistakes the show and the fandom should also focus on all the good wukong did because he did alot he saved kingdom people men and women and children he made an end to demons who roam around eating or kidnapping people or celestial being who gotten rogue or even from other people he did alot of good that's why he's loved because he's a hero who did alot of good things that's why mk want to be like him and live up to him

[frozen-flame02]

Good thing on that end is that…I do think season 5 was just proof that, from now on? Whatever happens will not be coming from Wukong's past like that. No more villains trying to claim vengeance or continue plans that were put on hold by his doings.

Xiangliu couldn't care less about Wukong. He has a single moment where he focuses on him, and then moves back to what he was doing careless and heedless of the Monkey King.

That was proof of concept on how things will be from now on to me. For good and for ill, because I'm not sure if it will be better or worse for Wukong then as long as it keeps hurting the people he loves so much.

In fact, if nothing, with how season 5 went, it will likely tear him apart even more, if he isn't able of stopping it once more just as with MK throwing himself into the Pillar despite his best efforts.

[swkbiggestdefender]

I love macaque but if my ex-best friend tries to steal my identity after i worked so hard to change and became better I'll probably be pissed of too because wtf

like I don't get why is it such a hot take to say that wukong anger towards macaque is justifiable because it is

macaque was also going to kill his companions and replace them with clons (at least in jttw) like yeah wukong definitely did some mistakes but that doesn't mean he's not allowed to be angry about this like lmk fandom need to understand that this anger is not one sided for a good reason

[frozen-flame02]

I...honestly can't help but feel off about trying to use material from JTTW to justify things over at LMK.

Especially in this case when, from what we have, it seems like the situation channels more from 2009's Monkey King in regards to the Six Eared Macaque than anything from the novel; with however it ending very badly in this case with his corruption arc winding with him dead or something similarly bad (or worse), rather than managing to purify and save him.

To go back with another example, it would be like also using the instance of the feast of the monkey demon killed by Sha Wujing and eaten by the SEM and the rest of the monkeys, to then try to say that the LMK monkeys would then have cooked and eaten MK's corpse had he fallen in battle against Azure Lion at Flower Fruit Mountain, and that the show is written around having to see them as so because it happened in the novel.

Especially if not then applying all the novel unless explicitly contradicted. It means Demon Bull King must somewhat justifiedly hate Pigsy because his former incarnation, Zhu Bajie, killed off his consort and the accompanying household, and also Nezha for dragging him off to the Celestial Realm to redeem him/force him to comply under the judgement of the Jade Emperor, for example too.

It means we have to see Red Son as either still a monk who is thus potentially getting in trouble over his seeming growing relationship with Mei as it may interact with his vows, or that he forsook them long ago to return to villainy alongside his family, walking away from (granted, tightly enforced as well in his case too) redemption.

Or it means having to take into account the aspect of Wukong slaying the group of bandits as he did just before the Macaque encounter, utterly horrifying Tripitaka to the point he explicitly then told the disguised Macaque he would rather die of thirst than drink water brought by him being what finally leads to the attack before leaving with the scriptures, just like Tripitaka also used the fillet in a prolonged form when Wukong himself tried to apologize before until he left, to also note on this very scenario.

But it very much doesn't seem to at all be reflected in the show, which is certainly inspired by the novel and definitely is made by people who are fans of all it's many divergent adaptions, but is very much it's own work, as something done by people who cherish all it's different versions and poured into doing a new incarnation of it's spirit; especially so in the characterization of the cast and the very deliberate changes it does to the background.

So on so forth, until the characters start looking very differently from how the series treats them as being from what we have (limited on purpose as it may have been). There are quite good reasons already in the show for having Wukong angry with Macaque, be it being left underneath the mountain while sealed rather than keeping him company regardless of responsibilities and potential further context because it was such a dire situation all over, as well as the whole of Macaque's actions over the first three seasons.

I also similarly can definitely understand using it for personal headcanon, for specific fanfic takes, fanarts, and so on. But using it to justify and judge for the show's take on the characters as said...it feels quite awkward, and prone to lots of cherry picking from the novel all over.

[swkbiggestdefender]

To be fair the show itself cherry pick from jttw and people always use jttw to justify hating on wukong i know lmk is deferent from jttw but some stuff from jttw is cannon in lmk so I feel that this is as close to cannon plus my point is that people victimise macaque when he isn't a victim I mean he literally tried to kill mk

[frozen-flame02]

You are absolutely right on both accounts.

The show totally cherry picks from the novel, but it is so as to craft a new version, rather than just backport; as is a good fair tradition for the folktales and myths of China being taken into new incarnations and retold over and over into new shapes to both remain fresh and new to those who know older adaptations, and to reach new people, generation after generation getting to enjoy the tales of the Great Sage Equal To Heaven. And even further so for LMK seeing it isn't an adaptation at all or even a continuation, but rather a work inspired by the characters and ideas of the novel, but rather a full on reinvention in a very different time.

To go back to the point of the use of the novel to backport justifications; it to me feels like trying to use for example, the Injustice version of Superman, who is internally coherent in his own story and specific tale and follows on it's ideas from the premise (even if we can totally disagree with it) to craft that specific variant, to then argue that all versions of Superman are just one really bad evil plot away from snapping and becoming an evil dictator in the name of forcing down peace on everyone, when that flies against the characterization and stories of hundreds of Superman tales and variants through time.

Attempting to do that to any of the characters of LMK just...it just feels wrong for the same reason to me. The novel shouldn't be used to shame on the canonical LMK Wukong, nor to cast doubt into his connection with his version of the Pilgrims he visibly cherished and still cherishes warts and all, or to try to break the DBK and PIF romance, and so on. Especially not coming fresh from Season 5; where we even learn the world can and has been destroyed and reborn countless times, and yet MK and the groups risked it all, even the potential doom of the Great Cycle, because this is the world and the specific version of the people they have learned to cherish from the bottom of their hearts; and so it can be for us, knowing of the many retellings, and yet loving and enjoying this or many specific of them, on a personal level because they are the ones that have touched us.

Finally on the aspect of the victimization. I am a firm believer that one of the most complicated elements of the relationship between both Macaque and Wukong, is that both have victimized one another in different accounts in different ways; out of, well, them just being young when they met likely and then never learning to better their issues, and having their bond stress tested with a war alongside many long festering problems from before leading it to detonate as it did, and then keep exploding further down the line. It certainly is my wish for Season 6, to address all the complexities it has, and also to indeed all the wrongs unaccounted, both between themselves, but also with others (and Macaque has a very much quite larger debt to pay there by far. I do suspect something is up there in what I think is a very disturbing way, but that is a different matter). And I think the writers do acknowledge it, as why they cut off the attempt between both to reach out at the almost end of the world: because there is too much to get into for it to be fixed by a handhold and they should get to it in an environment not pushed along by the pressure of imminent death. It just wouldn't be fair to anyone at all to do that, especially with the next season being set to fully engage with it, after two seasons fully invested into identity and memories and the secrets of the past and how it made the people around into who they are.

I admit my view on the fandom is somewhat limited, as I arrived to it quite late; after season 4, and thus further skewed in my favor by knowing actively of all revealed in-between, of the mutual harm and pain done from both accounts (even if not evenly of course, as said, Macaque's debt count is bigger). But this is to me, it always has been, the centerpiece of how love and pain are so interlocked together, which also heavily ties into Wukong's arc of learning that he deserves to be loved, just because, not because he is useful and fixes problems, with and without errors and failures, being or not the strongest; that he isn't just a living, not weapon, but shield, who has to eat the hits from anything to keep all others behind him and safe, the last (monkey)man standing on who everything has to ride by the end always. That he should allow others to just love him as it is, because they choose to.

The fandom can certainly do it's own takes then, yes, and maybe they manage to do something else that is engaging too, I can even enjoy it on the side as a snack or on it's own merit separately in my case, while I keep it separate from the series...but the show itself, I do hope it keeps speaking to me by doing as said above, with all the love it has for it's story and characters.

And...that's it, I think...

[swkbiggestdefender]

I agree with you but I also feel like it somewhat implied that macaque did try to replace wukong like in season one where he trick it mk into replacing wukong with him as a mentor and shapshifting into wukong in season 2 to tell mk that he did choose wrong (though mk thought he was just hallucinating) also the whole thing of macaque thinking that wukong replaced him with the pilgrims so he's trying to replace him I don't know if I'm reading to much to it but it feels a bit implied at least

[frozen-flame02]

No, no, I get it with all the oblique references to it, and Macaque himself even being the one to note to MK to read on the novel about it.

But, while this is also my reading here, the thing is that the myths themselves also seem shifted. See for example Tang blanking on who Guanyin's enchanted vase was used on, when they know quite well about Red Boy/Son, who it was used on.

And moreover, my interpretation of it, is that Macaque's worst quality, the one that is core to his villainy?

It's him being a spineless coward. When he tries to kill Wukong at his angriest and most violent, he punches down and goes after MK and his powers first because. When he trauma dumps, he does it on MK first and Tang later, who aren't threats to him at that point. The entirety of season 3 is him working of being such a coward he does as the Lady Bone Demon says and doesn't even try to ally with the Monkie Kid gang to work together and take her down out of being such a doormat, who also bizarrely seems to think working with Wukong is going to kill him faster than fighting against him despite that maybe killing him in the past (thus part of why he only joins when he is possessed; it is a very genuine belief there that allying with him will almost immediately kill him off).

It even extends to the past, even if maybe it teetered between caution and cowardice more, into both him and Wukong settling into their roles of leader-follower out of both of their personalities and interplay, and not talking more against the plan of the Rebellion, and with the potential hint that he either left mid-fight or didn't save Wukong from when he called him out on seemingly not rushing to help him underneath the mountain.

And then he...goes from wanting to feel out and talk about the situation with Wukong, to trying to kill off the Pilgrims while the Monkey King is guarding them without a beat, while still remaining as the aforementioned coward, and sticks around to the point where it kills him rather than flee as he consistently does so when things go wrong on him until the season 3 special with the very powers he has that excel at it?

And while we now get the reveal that his powers may not be his, but rather granted through deal as additional detail? While it gets extra attention put onto it by having MK also get the other similar powers granted to him? It...feels very off all over.

It gives me too much of a similar vibe to how, the nature of MK and his powers as heir of the Monkey King were just meant to be taken at face value until season 4, which then goes out of it's way to hit us with a tomato on the mirror and call out that we, alongside the characters, should totally have questioned it a lot more over, as he is revealed to be a celestial primate, and then season 5 revealing even further.

I hope it makes sense there with this specific subject.

[swkbiggestdefender]

I love macaque but if my ex-best friend tries to steal my identity after i worked so hard to change and became better I'll probably be pissed of too because wtf

like I don't get why is it such a hot take to say that wukong anger towards macaque is justifiable because it is

macaque was also going to kill his companions and replace them with clons (at least in jttw) like yeah wukong definitely did some mistakes but that doesn't mean he's not allowed to be angry about this like lmk fandom need to understand that this anger is not one sided for a good reason

[frozen-flame02]

I...honestly can't help but feel off about trying to use material from JTTW to justify things over at LMK.

Especially in this case when, from what we have, it seems like the situation channels more from 2009's Monkey King in regards to the Six Eared Macaque than anything from the novel; with however it ending very badly in this case with his corruption arc winding with him dead or something similarly bad (or worse), rather than managing to purify and save him.

To go back with another example, it would be like also using the instance of the feast of the monkey demon killed by Sha Wujing and eaten by the SEM and the rest of the monkeys, to then try to say that the LMK monkeys would then have cooked and eaten MK's corpse had he fallen in battle against Azure Lion at Flower Fruit Mountain, and that the show is written around having to see them as so because it happened in the novel.

Especially if not then applying all the novel unless explicitly contradicted. It means Demon Bull King must somewhat justifiedly hate Pigsy because his former incarnation, Zhu Bajie, killed off his consort and the accompanying household, and also Nezha for dragging him off to the Celestial Realm to redeem him/force him to comply under the judgement of the Jade Emperor, for example too.

It means we have to see Red Son as either still a monk who is thus potentially getting in trouble over his seeming growing relationship with Mei as it may interact with his vows, or that he forsook them long ago to return to villainy alongside his family, walking away from (granted, tightly enforced as well in his case too) redemption.

Or it means having to take into account the aspect of Wukong slaying the group of bandits as he did just before the Macaque encounter, utterly horrifying Tripitaka to the point he explicitly then told the disguised Macaque he would rather die of thirst than drink water brought by him being what finally leads to the attack before leaving with the scriptures, just like Tripitaka also used the fillet in a prolonged form when Wukong himself tried to apologize before until he left, to also note on this very scenario.

But it very much doesn't seem to at all be reflected in the show, which is certainly inspired by the novel and definitely is made by people who are fans of all it's many divergent adaptions, but is very much it's own work, as something done by people who cherish all it's different versions and poured into doing a new incarnation of it's spirit; especially so in the characterization of the cast and the very deliberate changes it does to the background.

So on so forth, until the characters start looking very differently from how the series treats them as being from what we have (limited on purpose as it may have been). There are quite good reasons already in the show for having Wukong angry with Macaque, be it being left underneath the mountain while sealed rather than keeping him company regardless of responsibilities and potential further context because it was such a dire situation all over, as well as the whole of Macaque's actions over the first three seasons.

I also similarly can definitely understand using it for personal headcanon, for specific fanfic takes, fanarts, and so on. But using it to justify and judge for the show's take on the characters as said...it feels quite awkward, and prone to lots of cherry picking from the novel all over.

[swkbiggestdefender]

To be fair the show itself cherry pick from jttw and people always use jttw to justify hating on wukong i know lmk is deferent from jttw but some stuff from jttw is cannon in lmk so I feel that this is as close to cannon plus my point is that people victimise macaque when he isn't a victim I mean he literally tried to kill mk

[frozen-flame02]

You are absolutely right on both accounts.

The show totally cherry picks from the novel, but it is so as to craft a new version, rather than just backport; as is a good fair tradition for the folktales and myths of China being taken into new incarnations and retold over and over into new shapes to both remain fresh and new to those who know older adaptations, and to reach new people, generation after generation getting to enjoy the tales of the Great Sage Equal To Heaven. And even further so for LMK seeing it isn't an adaptation at all or even a continuation, but rather a work inspired by the characters and ideas of the novel, but rather a full on reinvention in a very different time.

To go back to the point of the use of the novel to backport justifications; it to me feels like trying to use for example, the Injustice version of Superman, who is internally coherent in his own story and specific tale and follows on it's ideas from the premise (even if we can totally disagree with it) to craft that specific variant, to then argue that all versions of Superman are just one really bad evil plot away from snapping and becoming an evil dictator in the name of forcing down peace on everyone, when that flies against the characterization and stories of hundreds of Superman tales and variants through time.

Attempting to do that to any of the characters of LMK just...it just feels wrong for the same reason to me. The novel shouldn't be used to shame on the canonical LMK Wukong, nor to cast doubt into his connection with his version of the Pilgrims he visibly cherished and still cherishes warts and all, or to try to break the DBK and PIF romance, and so on. Especially not coming fresh from Season 5; where we even learn the world can and has been destroyed and reborn countless times, and yet MK and the groups risked it all, even the potential doom of the Great Cycle, because this is the world and the specific version of the people they have learned to cherish from the bottom of their hearts; and so it can be for us, knowing of the many retellings, and yet loving and enjoying this or many specific of them, on a personal level because they are the ones that have touched us.

Finally on the aspect of the victimization. I am a firm believer that one of the most complicated elements of the relationship between both Macaque and Wukong, is that both have victimized one another in different accounts in different ways; out of, well, them just being young when they met likely and then never learning to better their issues, and having their bond stress tested with a war alongside many long festering problems from before leading it to detonate as it did, and then keep exploding further down the line. It certainly is my wish for Season 6, to address all the complexities it has, and also to indeed all the wrongs unaccounted, both between themselves, but also with others (and Macaque has a very much quite larger debt to pay there by far. I do suspect something is up there in what I think is a very disturbing way, but that is a different matter). And I think the writers do acknowledge it, as why they cut off the attempt between both to reach out at the almost end of the world: because there is too much to get into for it to be fixed by a handhold and they should get to it in an environment not pushed along by the pressure of imminent death. It just wouldn't be fair to anyone at all to do that, especially with the next season being set to fully engage with it, after two seasons fully invested into identity and memories and the secrets of the past and how it made the people around into who they are.

I admit my view on the fandom is somewhat limited, as I arrived to it quite late; after season 4, and thus further skewed in my favor by knowing actively of all revealed in-between, of the mutual harm and pain done from both accounts (even if not evenly of course, as said, Macaque's debt count is bigger). But this is to me, it always has been, the centerpiece of how love and pain are so interlocked together, which also heavily ties into Wukong's arc of learning that he deserves to be loved, just because, not because he is useful and fixes problems, with and without errors and failures, being or not the strongest; that he isn't just a living, not weapon, but shield, who has to eat the hits from anything to keep all others behind him and safe, the last (monkey)man standing on who everything has to ride by the end always. That he should allow others to just love him as it is, because they choose to.

The fandom can certainly do it's own takes then, yes, and maybe they manage to do something else that is engaging too, I can even enjoy it on the side as a snack or on it's own merit separately in my case, while I keep it separate from the series...but the show itself, I do hope it keeps speaking to me by doing as said above, with all the love it has for it's story and characters.

And...that's it, I think...

[swkbiggestdefender]

I love macaque but if my ex-best friend tries to steal my identity after i worked so hard to change and became better I'll probably be pissed of too because wtf

like I don't get why is it such a hot take to say that wukong anger towards macaque is justifiable because it is

macaque was also going to kill his companions and replace them with clons (at least in jttw) like yeah wukong definitely did some mistakes but that doesn't mean he's not allowed to be angry about this like lmk fandom need to understand that this anger is not one sided for a good reason

[frozen-flame02]

I...honestly can't help but feel off about trying to use material from JTTW to justify things over at LMK.

Especially in this case when, from what we have, it seems like the situation channels more from 2009's Monkey King in regards to the Six Eared Macaque than anything from the novel; with however it ending very badly in this case with his corruption arc winding with him dead or something similarly bad (or worse), rather than managing to purify and save him.

To go back with another example, it would be like also using the instance of the feast of the monkey demon killed by Sha Wujing and eaten by the SEM and the rest of the monkeys, to then try to say that the LMK monkeys would then have cooked and eaten MK's corpse had he fallen in battle against Azure Lion at Flower Fruit Mountain, and that the show is written around having to see them as so because it happened in the novel.

Especially if not then applying all the novel unless explicitly contradicted. It means Demon Bull King must somewhat justifiedly hate Pigsy because his former incarnation, Zhu Bajie, killed off his consort and the accompanying household, and also Nezha for dragging him off to the Celestial Realm to redeem him/force him to comply under the judgement of the Jade Emperor, for example too.

It means we have to see Red Son as either still a monk who is thus potentially getting in trouble over his seeming growing relationship with Mei as it may interact with his vows, or that he forsook them long ago to return to villainy alongside his family, walking away from (granted, tightly enforced as well in his case too) redemption.

Or it means having to take into account the aspect of Wukong slaying the group of bandits as he did just before the Macaque encounter, utterly horrifying Tripitaka to the point he explicitly then told the disguised Macaque he would rather die of thirst than drink water brought by him being what finally leads to the attack before leaving with the scriptures, just like Tripitaka also used the fillet in a prolonged form when Wukong himself tried to apologize before until he left, to also note on this very scenario.

But it very much doesn't seem to at all be reflected in the show, which is certainly inspired by the novel and definitely is made by people who are fans of all it's many divergent adaptions, but is very much it's own work, as something done by people who cherish all it's different versions and poured into doing a new incarnation of it's spirit; especially so in the characterization of the cast and the very deliberate changes it does to the background.

So on so forth, until the characters start looking very differently from how the series treats them as being from what we have (limited on purpose as it may have been). There are quite good reasons already in the show for having Wukong angry with Macaque, be it being left underneath the mountain while sealed rather than keeping him company regardless of responsibilities and potential further context because it was such a dire situation all over, as well as the whole of Macaque's actions over the first three seasons.

I also similarly can definitely understand using it for personal headcanon, for specific fanfic takes, fanarts, and so on. But using it to justify and judge for the show's take on the characters as said...it feels quite awkward, and prone to lots of cherry picking from the novel all over.

[inkdot-deactivated20200219]

This weekend I was told a story which, although I’m kind of ashamed to admit it, because holy shit is it ever obvious, is kind of blowing my mind.

A friend of a friend won a free consultation with Clinton Kelly of What Not To Wear, and she was very excited, because she has a plus-size body, and wanted some tips on how to make the most of her wardrobe in a fashion culture which deliberately puts her body at a disadvantage.

Her first question for him was this: how do celebrities make a plain white t-shirt and a pair of weekend jeans look chic?  She always assumed it was because so many celebrities have, by nature or by design, very slender frames, and because they can afford very expensive clothing.  But when she watched What Not To Wear, she noticed that women of all sizes ended up in cute clothes that really fit their bodies and looked great.  She had tried to apply some guidelines from the show into her own wardrobe, but with only mixed success.  So - what gives?

His answer was that everything you will ever see on a celebrity’s body, including their outfits when they’re out and about and they just get caught by a paparazzo, has been tailored, and the same goes for everything on What Not To Wear.  Jeans, blazers, dresses - everything right down to plain t-shirts and camisoles.  He pointed out that historically, up until the last few generations, the vast majority of people either made their own clothing or had their clothing made by tailors and seamstresses.  You had your clothing made to accommodate the measurements of your individual body, and then you moved the fuck on.  Nothing on the show or in People magazine is off the rack and unaltered.  He said that what they do is ignore the actual size numbers on the tags, find something that fits an individual’s widest place, and then have it completely altered to fit.  That’s how celebrities have jeans that magically fit them all over, and the rest of us chumps can’t ever find a pair that doesn’t gape here or ride up or slouch down or have about four yards of extra fabric here and there.

I knew that having dresses and blazers altered was probably something they were doing, but to me, having alterations done generally means having my jeans hemmed and then simply living with the fact that I will always be adjusting my clothing while I’m wearing it because I have curves from here to ya-ya, some things don’t fit right, and the world is just unfair that way.  I didn’t think that having everything tailored was something that people did. 

It’s so obvious, I can’t believe I didn’t know this.  But no one ever told me.  I was told about bikini season and dieting and targeting your “problem areas” and avoiding horizontal stripes.  No one told me that Jennifer Aniston is out there wearing a bigger size of Ralph Lauren t-shirt and having it altered to fit her.

I sat there after I was told this story, and I really thought about how hard I have worked not to care about the number or the letter on the tag of my clothes, how hard I have tried to just love my body the way it is, and where I’ve succeeded and failed.  I thought about all the times I’ve stood in a fitting room and stared up at the lights and bit my lip so hard it bled, just to keep myself from crying about how nothing fits the way it’s supposed to.  No one told me that it wasn’t supposed to.  I guess I just didn’t know.  I was too busy thinking that I was the one that didn’t fit.

I thought about that, and about all the other girls and women out there whose proportions are “wrong,” who can’t find a good pair of work trousers, who can’t fill a sweater, who feel excluded and freakish and sad and frustrated because they have to go up a size, when really the size doesn’t mean anything and it never, ever did, and this is just another bullshit thing thrown in your path to make you feel shitty about yourself.

I thought about all of that, and then I thought that in elementary school, there should be a class for girls where they sit you down and tell you this stuff before you waste years of your life feeling like someone put you together wrong.

So, I have to take that and sit with it for a while.  But in the meantime, I thought perhaps I should post this, because maybe my friend, her friend, and I are the only clueless people who did not realise this, but maybe we’re not.  Maybe some of you have tried to embrace the arbitrary size you are, but still couldn’t find a cute pair of jeans, and didn’t know why.

[hungrylikethewolfie]

This post is one of those things that I will reblog every time it appears on my dash.  This is so important, and no one ever tells you about it.

[skeletree-blog]

I almost didn’t read this but then I did and I’m really glad that I did.

[theopinionatedartist]

Super important

[deafinatlyme]

Tldr: The reason clothes never “looked right on you” is because models and celebrities always had their clothes tailored to fit them perfectly.

[plucky-passerine]

I love this post but it always frustrated me just a little because I can’t even afford to buy new clothes let alone get the clothes I have tailored. But then I remembered that a lot of things are easier to do than you think they will be, so here’s some resources on how to alter your own clothes!

[cats-eye-galaxy]

Please read this, it’s an opportunity to learn about yourself, possibly a new skill and why it isn’t you, it’s the industry.

[lilboreddev-blog]

reblog if your name isn't Amanda.

[thatblackwatchdouche-blog-blog]

2,121,566 people are not Amanda and counting!

We’ll find you Amanda.

[world-heritage-posts]

world heritage post

[thrandilf]

was thinking abt what the og shadowpeach fight could've been and like

it really does make sense for Macaque to have gotten overwhelmed by his own powers/corrupted/consumed by them (I think @imminent-danger-came was the first person to float this by me) "As the Hero's light grew, so too did his shadow. And soon, the Warrior was cast in that shadow. In the darkness, the Warrior was forgotten by the Hero."

and with what we got in S5 it makes even more sense since Macaque has an unpredictable at best connection to chaos now, as does the staff so the staff and MK are extra concerns this time around

so Macaque being corrupted before and Wukong killing him (or thinking he had)

to now Wukong has Macaque in trouble again AND MK in trouble in a similar way if the show makes the chaos connection a true problem

with the "they will destroy you, harbinger of chaos" line hanging over us, it would be a golden opportunity to go into what happened in the past to the current situation where Wukong has made the mistake and hurt someone close to him before, and now he has to figure out how to stop that nightmare but even worse from happening again

[frozen-flame02]

There also seems to be something of a fitting sense to the quote too.

Some of the main themes since season 4, have been identity and the secrets of the past.

But characters that seem tied to chaos? Theirs is always unknown, and it stays so until something manages to focus on them and draw attention to it usually by literally taking a dive into their blocked memories or seeing into their past.

MK's birth, which was unnaturally hastened by what likely was chaos magic from Xiangliu, and function was hidden even from himself until first the Scroll and then the Hundred Eyed Demon peered into them, and barely anyone seemed to even realize about him having copied Wukong's powers not really fitting.

No one spotted the Nine Headed Demon being a creature of the chaos beyond, a seeming survivor of former Cycles, staying right amongst the Ten Kings of Diyu, and he himself has to come out with his backstory.

We don't actually know anything about Macaque, be it his birth, how he met Wukong, whatever he was involved when Monkey King was training be it or not going with him, or while Wukong was bound, or inbetween their battle, or even when he was brought back by the Lady Bone Demon.

And if potentially the Samadhi Fire may be also tied to chaos magic too, sharing in color scheme (black surrounded by a color) and lack of seals to it's use, then weirdly too, the Pilgrims and Ao Lie somehow being missing and presumed dead and reincarnated too as well could be tied too.

And finally, from the Hundred Eyed Demon instance, Wukong's memory seems also to be disrupted too; with the intrusion into his memory of his fight with Macaque being obscured when by contrast the Scroll seemed to have no issue looking into and through almost everything else in the season beforehand.

There is something about the chaos, which it seems, eats memories, that sunders connections, and which instills carelessness and reckless apathy by those who embrace it that ends with the case of something like with Xiangliu. The whole thing of being left in the shadows, forgotten? It may well be literal, where everyone may start forgetting anything about MK and how much they care about him, something he already deeply fears from the case with the Shadow Play at it's best example where he genuinely can believe it by himself.

The worst enemy of friendship and love is nothing if not being condemned to oblivion and being ignored regardless of any attempt against it; and the freedom of chaos taken to it's ultimate extreme, of being wholly untethered from anything and anyone, is nothing if not just another word for isolation.