Reblogging this post as it might just be the thing that gets me to write my BTR complete rewrite fanfic. It managed to simultaneously remind me of both how much I love that show and how many qualms I have with it.
Because the thing is sometimes I think about lomille too and what it could have been if the writers actually care to give them depth.
And if they had a dynamic that was more than the product of a time in which a guy getting slapped for no apparent reason was considered comedic. Because, to the writers, that's all that was, nothing more a recurring "funny" bit.
And aside from the fact that there really isn't anything funny about it, there's also the fact that, despite being the first thing she does on screen, her randomly slapping people is actually heavily out of character when you look at all the other traits that Camille has that are much more consistent, she is shown time and time again to be empathetic, kind, loyal, caring and protective of those she loves and now tell me why someone like that would hurt people without a second thought? Especially the boy she is very obviously head over heels for?
Like given how positively down bad she was for Logan (which as a Logan girlie myself, valid) did anyone seriously expect me to believe that when confronted with the possibility of not seeing him again, she would choose to slap him instead of kissing him senseless? There was absolutely no reason for her to slap him when he asked if she was gonna "give him something to remember her by" other than the fact that the writers thought it would be 'funny' and 'not that deep'.
I genuinely hate when you can tell that the writers thought something along the line of "It's a kids show, it'snot that deep" because it is, storytelling is complex and it should be, arguably it should be even more so when you are writing for kids because the media we consume when you are young are more often than bot the ones we geow more attached to, especially when they become a refuge from everything else and give you joy and comfort. And when that happens you find yourself coming back to it even as you grow and wouldn't it be beautiful if that show that meant so much to you when you were younger grew up with you in a way? If you could rewatch it and all those deeper layers of the story unveiled themselves before your eyes?
Btr was one of my comfort shows, I would watch it every time it came on, I saw it in multiple languages, I would watch every episode I came across even if it was one I had already seen, so it isn't a stretch to say I saw every single episode at least 30 times at the very least.
And when you see something that much you can't help but overanalyze it. And when you have a writing degree that overanalisis also results into recognizing all of the times in which the rules of storytelling and character writing and development were overlooked in favor of cheap 'comedy' and drama all because someone thought no one would notice.
So when I think about Big Time Rush now, when I rewatch an episode because I'm feeling the nostalgia (which is atm just a symptom of post concert depression) I can't help but think how it could have been so much better if its characters were treated right and allowed to be tridimensional. Because they weren't, at least not most of the time, we were often shown more than just one aspect of one character, only for them to be once again reduced to a stereotype the very next episode.
Lomille could have been a great passionate love story between two people that seem too different to be together, but then you look closer and see they actually complement each other really well.
That is if Camille hadn’t been introduced to us as this caricature of a method actress and if she had been written as an actual tridimentional character.
She would have been so great as a driven theater kid who wants to make characters come to life but went for tv/movies instead of theater because it would reach more people and who channels her emotions through the characters she plays because she feels more confident when she isn't "just herself". And I don't think that would have been a complete rework of her character, because the base is there, her passion for acting is still there, her drive and bubbly personality, but, contrary to canon this way we would also explore the side that's only hinted at, the insecurities that are sometimes shown but never actually discussed properly but would have been, if done right, yet another thing bringing her and Logan closer, deepening their understanding of each other and their connection.
They would see through each other because they would relate to each other.
Logan isn't the most confident, especially at first, it's clear he is used to being in his friends' shadow, and we see it in the way he puts himself down constantly, he is smart but he doesn't trust himself to get out of situations instead he turns to Kendall because he is more confident, then there's Carlos who can be naive and very much gives 'youngest of the group' vibes, but at least he isn't afraid to put himself out there, and finally James, who I think is very obviously the main reason why Logan doesn't think of himself as the kind of guy that can get the girl. That is not to say James intentionally puts him down, I don't question the boys' bond as I think them being the chaotic caring brothers they are is one of the best parts of the show [which is why I refuse to acknowledge the whole beat about the boys bullying Logan until 3rd grade, it's not funny and it taints the thing that is at heart of the show just...Why even include it?], but it wouldn't be a stretch to think Logan might have had girls approach him just to get closer to James, which would explain and add layers to both why in canon he doesn't seem to fully realize Camille's interest for him at first, even going as far as asking for James's help in asking her out despite the fact that she has explicitly called him hot and shown interest in him and why he said he's never asked a girl out. [It might also explain why he would break up with Camille over the kiss despite forgiving her, and despite still being very much in love with her, as it might have triggered memories and sparked intrusive thoughts about how she might end up liking James better, just like everyone else but this is another thing I choose to completely ignore because it was so forced, nothing but wasted screentime that could have been used to develop the relationship]
And even in the show as it is, there is a parallel between Logan and Camille in this sense, only difference is, in her case, it was never fully stated or explored. Camille isn't shown to have had any meaningful, impactful friendships from before the guys came into the picture, then she gets a best friend in Jo who came to Hollywood long after she did but landed a role first despite the fact that she had originally wanted to pursue music - which might have just been the writers changing their minds about Jo's character but still - and I don't doubt that she was happy for her friend but are we supposed to believe it didn't make her doubt her talent in the slightest? Then there is Lucy who isn't in the same field as her so she doesn't compare to herself professionally, but personality wise Lucy has the kind of confidence Camille would like to have as herself, not just when in character.
And if you were to add to this the fact that both Jo and Lucy - and even Stephanie - got the boys' attention right away, the parallel becomes even more striking.
But this last aspect I want to ignore because the boys competing for the same girl was gone one too many times, and that is to say it should have never happened.
They might have had quite a few things in common but they have such different personalities that it's beyond umbelievable that they would fall for the same girl once, let alone multiple times.
Granted, the writers probably just thought "they're teenager boys, they'll fall for the first pretty girl they see". But I think that is stupid. I think it is stereotypical and disregards the backgrounds that they themselves established for the characters. Based on what we are shown of their parents, especially their moms, I can't bring myself to believe any of them would view girls in such a shallow way.
Two of them were raised by single mothers.
Kendall saw his mother struggle to raise two kids alone, his father is never mentioned, but the way the whole dynamic is framed, and the way Kendall tends to want to take control of situations and make sure everybody is taken care of, makes me think that he didn't die, he left without looking back. And Kendall saw that and vowed to be different, to always care, to never leave any of his family behind, which is why he refuses to go to L.A. without the boys.
Then there is James, whose father was around until the divorce, he says his parents haven't spoken to each other since, doesn't elaborate on whether or not he still sees him, but I think the fact that James didn’t feel like he could get his father to help him stay in L.A. in Big Time Moms speaks volumes. It's not hard to imagine he would avoid seeing his son just so he didn't have to deal with the ex, and the divorce is implied to have happened long before the show so it's safe ro assume Brooke was James' primary caretaker for most of his life. And while James is shown to be really scared of his mother, I think despite the overly exagerated bit of "no one says no to her", that stemmed mostly from not wanting to disappoint her, not wanting to let her down, not wanting to remind her of his father. It's obvious that Brooke was James role model growing up, there are a lot of his traits that could be traced back to his mother - even though I highly doubt the writers put that much thought into it - including the protectiveness. Brooke wasn't the perfect mother, she had shircomings and needed to learn to be better, but there is no denying she was a driven capable powerful woman who his son looked up to, and you can't grow up with an example like that and not see girls/women as more than pretty things to look at.
Then with Carlos we meet both his parents, albeit at different points in the show but it is clear they are both very present and there are no signs to indicate an unhealthy dynamic between them. Also I rewatched the ep recently and I couldn’t believe I forgot how much of a badass Carlos' mom was.
Logan's family life we know the least of, but from what we see of his mom, she seems like a really strong-willed, smart, capable woman. And it isn't unclear if she is the only parent present in his life but it's easy to identify the positive traits she instilled in her son and he seems to think extremely high of her.
All in all, I think it's safe to say Jennifer Knight, Brooke Diamond, Sylvia Garcia and Joanna Mitchell all seem like the type of women that wouldn't let their sons get away with being disrespectful or superficial, and even if the writers of the show didn't think that much into it, it doesn't mean I have to accept a stereotypical "boys will be boys" portrayal of four characters that are in reality really well rounded and deep, or at least have the potential to be.
The cards were all there, they were just played wrong and I refuse to accept it because all four of the boys deserved better.
For one I think they all deserved consistent love interests. Because the only relationship we really saw develop a bit more was Jendall and even that wasn't done properly in my opinion.
They kept having him and Jo butt heads as if they were too different to be together when in reality they were a great match, like in the episode where he finds out that she lied about having a boyfriend, they had such great chemistry there but after that, it's not that I stopped liking them as a couple, but it was like they had dulled that chemistry because they also dulled Jo's personality. She had fire and drive and just the right amount of attitude to match Kendall's kinda leader of the pack energy. But instead of using that,they had them have miscommunications all the time.
And that was just mind-blowing for me because Kendall and miscommunication don't go together.
This is Kendall "let'stalk it through and find a solution" Knight.
The whole Jo being surprised that he thought they were boyfriend and girlfriend during the dance ep was stupid because, seriously, he was a goner for her from the beginning and did nothing to hide it. But also, this guy went above and beyond to get her to go out with him, am I supposed to believe he wouldn't have made a gesture to invite her to the dance? Because I don't not in the slightest.
All of those moments would need fixing to actually be true to the characters and do justice to yet another relationship that was good but could have been great.
So, first of all, Kendall would be the only one interested in Jo when she gets there, and instead of the "any kind of guy" being used to showcase all for trying to all get her attention, it's Kendall trying to figure out the best way to approach this girl that he really likes.
Maybe she still lies about having a boyfriend or maybe she avoids him because she does also feel drawn to him upon their first meet but she is trying to dismiss those feelings to focus on her career and she fears how complicated relationships in the spotlight can get. But he is determined to get to know her, and the more they interact, the more she can't ignore how hard she's falling, but the fear also dissipates upon realizing that among the chaos of trying to make it in hollywood, it is really grounding and comforting to be with someone who understands. Someone like Kendall.
Also, since the whole Kendall and Camille going behind everyone's backs to figure skate together was pointless and didn't lead anywhere (they could have at least have it be what makes Logan realize he is not over Camille and they decide to try again but...) let's mayve cut that out and instead have Jo have a background in figure skating as a child and then the opportunity presents itself of and audition in which a figure skating routine is required and she asks him for help and he hesitates at first because of the reason that we are given in the show as to why the boys don't like figure skating but then he finds that she had had a similar experience but in reverse which is really the reason why she's hated hockey for the longest time but she also said that meeting him showed you can judge a whole sport based on some mean people and so they have a date a rink and he helps her with the audition. And not only do they grow closer but she ends up getting the role. And maybe there is some tension with the guys over the whole thing because of the pact they made as kids, but ultimately they are supportive because they see how happy Kendall is because of Jo, and that they can't begrudge him for doing that for her and maybe a little for himself as well just like in the show.
Then, as much as Worldwide is one of their best songs, I think if you have a plotline either you have them doing long distance, as the ending and the song implied and then actually do the movie and then come back so they can "pick up right where they left off", or she ultimately decides that the role is not worth the risk that is leaving a show in which she is one of the main characters and she stays.
In both cases, there is no Lucy/love triangle drama. Instead, when Lucy gets to the Palm Woods, James is the only one that goes after her, and instead of Kendall, he is the one that ends up suggesting they make a rock song because he wants to impress her, but also because, let's be real, I think he would actually be the most prideful in relation to their music and the band's image [I'm not saying it didn't make sense for Kendall to be like that, because it was pretty in character but it would make such a great opportunity to explore James' character and showcase his dedication to music]. And he actually ends up coming up with Paralyzed while on a rant about how Lucy is the first girl that makes him second guess his charm, cause he is usually confident and straightforward when trying to get a girl's attention but Lucy catches him off guard and he can't get her out of his head. Having James playing an active part in writing the song would make it even more meaningful and that way the whole "the guys want to be more involved in the writing process" plotline stays consistent.
Lucy isn't swept off her feet right away regardless, but her respect for the guys as artists grows and she seems impressed when one of the guys compliments James for helping Gustavo with the song. She appears intrigued and willing to see if there is more to him that meets the eye. Meanwhile he figures that the only way he might actually have a chance, is to dial it down on his usual flirty ways and take the chance that their friendship offers to show her the James that his friends know.
The real turning point for these two comes with the Big time Double date episode. He is the one that ends up going to dinner with her and her parents and try to make them see how amazing she is, and in between he shares with her what he went through with his mom, says it's not exactly the same as to what she is facing but he gets what it means to have to fight to be seen as your own person as opposed to what your parents would want even if for him it was more making a name for himself away from his mother's business and reputation.
And just like that, we have the perfect 'he fell first, but she fell harder' set-up.
As for Carlos, I am not considering Alexa because that was a choice dictated by the actor's relationship, and this is about the character. I did like his interactions with Curly haired Jennifer in the double date episode and before that when she went to listen to the All Over Again performance by the pool, but not enough to completely ignore the way she treated him before that.
Or, more importantly, to ignore the fact that Carlos's perfect match was a character that appeared very early on and that would have greatly improved the show had she been a series regular. Stephanie was the perfect girl for Carlos, quirky but not in an exaggerated manner, energetic, outgoing, good sense of humor, and would have allowed him to be unapologetically himself. I genuinely cannot forgive the crime that it was to write her out of the show and then have an episode about finding Carlos' dream girl when she was right there. Also, when I say she would have improved the show I mean it, she was friends with Jo and Camille, fit right into the group, and her talent for special effect would have been extremely useful in so many of the boys crazy antics and schemes. Wasted potential on all fronts.
Finally, to get back to my two favorite characters, the ones that kickstarted this whole rant/kind-of-essay/fanfic outline brainstorming: Logan and Camille.
Standing behind what I said at the start, they are actually really compatible and have a lot of parallels that makes for a great dynamic, if we take their actual character traits instead of the overexagerated stereotypes they were made into whenever it was convenient. I went in-depth about Camille, so no reason to repeat myself, but Logan had this problem as well.
Sure, he subverted the "smart one" trope in a lot of ways, he was shown to athletic both with the fact that he was a hockey player and he backflips, he is a talented singer and rapper [I love Cymphonique feature on I know you know, but I wish we would have gotten a version with the original rap part sang by Logan], and he is quite popular, not to mention, out of all of them he is the first one to get a girl's attention right away.
Still, even with all of this, they still made him stereotypical by making him overly-rational, and not even all the time, just when the plot they wanted to push demanded it. Like, they made him break up with Camille over statistics (and that happened twice) having him display this exaggerated rationality of someone who quantifies everything.
That was big time out of character, and that's a hill I will die on.
So, if I was the one writing this show, none of that would be happening.
Instead, when the boys first get to the Palm Woods, she is too engrossed in going over her lines and clashes into him, he catches her as she is about to fall and they lock eyes [I know it's cliché but a dramatic movie-like meet cute fits them so well] until Camille phone rings and it's her father saying he is waiting for her out front to bring her to an audition. She quickly apologizes to Logan and leaves as he stares in the direction she went in until Kendall or one of the guys come get him because they need to go to the studio.
He sees her again when the boys return to the Palm Woods after Griffin approved of them. The guys have jumped in the pool, he's thinking of joining them but he overhears something from one of the tents that catches his attention, when he gets closer and sees the girl he hasn't been able to get out of his head sitting there a copy of Midsummer Night's dream in hand while she recites the line out loud and scribbles down in the book. He is captivated.
He wants to talk to her, but he doesn't want to interrupt her, so he just stands there. She goes into Helena's monologue (I made this more specific that I had intended, but 1 Midsummer's Night's dream is my favorite play, and 2. I think Camille "I've never been asked out before and I'm most confidentwhen in character" Roberts would find that monologue really cathartic) closing her eyes, indicating that really she knows it by heart and the text is just for annotating. She goes through the entire monologue before opening her eyes once again and that's when she notices him.
He panicks and goes on rambling about why he was there and how he is sorry if he scared her/freaked her out but she was amazing and he didn't want to interrupt and she cuts him off by asking if he really thought she was amazing. He looks down blushing and nods. She giggles at how bashful he looks and invites him to take a seat. Saying they didn't really get a chance to introduce themselves. So they do. Then the conversation shifts to them talking about their jobs and just getting to know each other until his phone rings and it's Kendall wanting to know where he is, because they thought he had gone back to the apartment but when they got there they didn’t see him. In the meantime she has also gotten a text from her dad telling her to come updtairs for dinner. They get into the elevator together. As they reach his floor he bids her goodnight and say they will be seeing each other around but before he can get aut she stops him and gives him a post it with her number on it. He walks in the apartment smiling like won the lottery, when questioned about why he is so happy, he just says he's really glad to have come to L.A. with them and makes something up about a call home when asked where he was.
I think it would be really in character for him to want to keep Camille "to himself" for a little while, after all, for the first time a girl had noticed him first. A really cool girl he can't wait to see again.
He winds up texting her that very night, they text and they meet a couple times at the park when he can get away from the guys. Maybe he helps her run some lines (I have stated that I think, despite her outgoing personality, Camille is also rather shy and insecure, and maybe she used to be a full-on introvert but acting helped her, and I think Logan would also find confort in it, not to the point of wanting to pursue it as a career but I think he'd find it a huge help in finding a way of expressing his feelings, and then later when he needs to find his swagger, also, let's be real, if there is one thing Logan Mitchell definitely doesn't lack is dramatics). And it is from Camille that he finds out about the Palm Woods School and tells the boys, though he doesn't mention her at first.
He is falling for her, and it's the first time he's felt this strongly about a girl before, and, yeah, part of him wants to go talk to his brothers about it, but the other isn't quite ready to deal with the teasing.
Aside, from that, I'm not saying things would stay the same, because in my version they meet differently and the crush isn't one-sided from the start, so of course I would change some stuff accordingly in regarding to their already existing interactions and add more (there are a lot of situations in which it didn't really make sense to me that she wouldn't be involved) and also replace all the ones they had while broke up because there is no stupid break up and on again-off again mess and certainly no 'triangle' with miss "thinks she can manipulate people into dating her without consequences", Mercedes Griffin wasn't a broken hearted victim and I ain't making her one - and just to be clear I have enough ideas that I could make an episode per episode list of all the things I'd change and or/add but I am stopping myself because this has already gotten out of hand as it is - while keeping most of the episodes the same, aside from what I already said should be different of course.
WE GET LOMILLE FIRST REAL KISS WITHOUT THEM BREAKING UP FOR INSTANCE.
LET'S KEEP THIS BEAUTIFUL CHEMISTRY AND NO DRAMA [Also little me believed they had gotten back together after this, they were messing with my baby shipper heart fr]
Another one of the things I would absolutely change is James' interest in acting mostly because the only time it's brought up it's Big Time Break and then the whole "getting to lost in character and hurting Logan mess" and I believe I made my feelings about that whole debacle abuntantly clear already. Also I feel like it takes away from James' character, among the four is the only one that is really and solely focused on music, he's wanted it since the very beginning. Sure he craves attention and fame, but he specifically wants that through music, and taking that away I think would deminish his dedication to the craft, redicing it but just a means for fame. And I don't wanna do that. Especially because it's part of the reason why him and Lucy are a really good match in my opinion.
Also, since Lomille starts off differently and interacts a lot more, I think he would find his own way to ask her to prom, while James helps Carlos ask Stephanie, because, while I do like that she espressed interest in him and asked him herself, I want to take the Jennifers mess out the way, not erase it, just having it play out differently, so James is helping Carlos and still accidentally ask a dozen different girls in the process, but then the Jennifers approach Carlos with their crazy scheme of pretend famous boyfriends and James 'takes the fall' by offering to do it in his stead. Carlos is really rouched he'd go through something that hurts his pride (I mean he is the James Diamond forced to pretend to be anyone but his awesome totally datable self so it really is a struggle) just for him, and James says that they are friends, no, brothers so of course he would - it would be a relly nice way to really show that James isn't just in it for himself - but that he better make sure it wasn't in vain and ask Stephanie out, she overhears and asks Carlos if he really wants to go with her and he ends up confessing that not only does he want to take her to the dance but he'd love to take her out on a date as well.
Another thing is, I feel like I'd add more moments of Katie interacting with the guys' girlfriends, we see her struggle to make friends, and struggle with the fact that the only female precense in her life is her mother, so I think it'd be nice to see her have a chance at having big sisters to go to for advice. Not just that, but none of the girls are shown to have a present mother so it'd be nice to see Jen be there for them, and you can bet if I was in the writers room Jo, Camille and Stephanie would have madd an appearance in Big Time Moms.
I'm ending this with a very personal headcanon that I'm not sure I would include if I did write the fic but I need to get it out there: I feel making Camille an ambulatory wheelchair user who needs some type of momility aid at all times would really add to her character, and give a better reason to her struggling to find jobs that's not "she's so crazy about acting she can't do her job right". It wouldn't need to become a major plot point either, as a disabled girlie myself the best kind of rep is when the character is allowed to just exist as a person aside from the disability which is but a part of who that person is, of course the struggle isn't ignore but it isn't the whole point.
Either way she is not a method actress, it's not something you need to be a good actor and the show made it extra weird.
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