granitegrumbles

Another Critique/Rewrite blog of Helluva Boss (and sometimes Hazbin Hotel)

[granitegrumbles]

Hello! You can call me Granite! She/they please!

This is a blog meant to air out my complaints on the Hellaverse as a fan who has ended up slightly disappointed by the direction both shows took. While I still enjoy most of it, there are certain elements that warrant a discussion about, and no other place but the critical community seems to be interested in seeing it.

[granitegrumbles]

One of the main problems with Octavia’s writing is that she barely exists outside of Stolas. Her character arc is a constant cycle that never changes: She loves Stolas, but his recent behavior spawned from the affair and divorce has driven a rift in them. Octavia gets upset and runs off, Stolas runs after her, they have a heart-to-heart, and then she’s back on the shelf until next time he needs to be sympathetic to the audience.

We don’t know anything about her day-to-day life beyond that she’s upset by the conflict in her home. She listens to angry music and is moody. Great. What else? Is she being tutored in magic because she’s their heir in case anything happens and that’s her inheritance? Is she upset that Stolas is so careless with the object that will define her future? Does she have to take etiquette lessons? Does she ever leave the house or is she stuck there for safety reasons? Well, she wakes up, she eats breakfast, and she does something if Stolas is around for it. The one major change in the cycle is pretty lackluster too.

Her anger at Stolas in Sinsmas for breaking his promise and leaving her for Blitz lacks impact because the root of the conflict is the medication Stolas was taking, and Octavia feeling like she’s the source of his depression. This feels unnatural and tacked on as a way to soften the blow of Octavia cutting contact with him, and provides an easy way for them to make up later because it was all a big misunderstanding and actually Stolas doesn’t have to do any reflection on his failures as a father at all! They have a scene where Stolas says that the only reason he stayed with Stella was for “that girl” to have a normal life; if Octavia had heard this conversation it could’ve set this conflict up more naturally, but that brings us to the next problem with her relationships: she doesn’t have one with Stella.

Stella’s cartoonish evilness creates a very weird plot hole that she show hasn’t explored yet, and I don’t think it will. Octavia says that there was a time when her family didn’t fight all the time, to which Stolas awkwardly fails to explain the truth to her. Beyond You Will Be Okay, we never see what her upbringing looked like and this means that either Stella and Stolas managed to cover up the true nature of their relationship until the affair happened, or Octavia is in denial of some kind, or she genuinely didn’t know the abuse was that until she got older and wiser. We know the last one isn’t true given how she says that there was a time that they didn’t fight, and if they fought before when she was younger she would have noticed. She has access to the internet, unrestricted from what we’ve seen. Being in denial wouldn’t fit given how she genuinely recognizes that there’s a huge rift between them as early as Loo Loo Land, so that means Stella and Stolas must’ve covered it up. The only problem is that season 2 has made Stella into a cackling madman who outright tells Stolas that she likes tormenting him and that she’s too stupid to understand that she needs Stolas alive for her inheritance. We never see what Octavia thinks of her mother beyond a couple uncomfortable expressions and surprised when Stella hugs her during Mastermind. It’s a huge missed opportunity to flesh both of them out and add a lot of nuance to the situation.

Octavia’s only meaningful relationship outside of her family is her friendship with Loona, and even then it’s small. Seeing Stars spends most of its time on Blitz and Stolas on a sitcom set and have Loona and Octavia talk at the very end despite the fact that the two of them are front and center on the thumbnail. Their friendship is set up as early as episode 2 of a 12 episode season, and the only time they interact again is in Blitz’s dream vision of Stolas and him as a proper family. It could’ve been worked into episodes naturally; in Unhappy Campers the reason she doesn’t go on the mission could be because she’s taking the day off to go hang out with Octavia, or in one of the scenes where Loona’s on her phone she could be texting Octavia.

A good way to flesh Octavia outside of her father would be to have Seeing Stars focus on the two of them properly. Loona and Blitz get into the same fight that they do at the start of the episode minus the physical violence when Octavia, upset at the fact that her father has forgotten about a special event she’s clearly still excited about given how she had it on her calendar all those years later, sneaks into the office and steals the grimoire. Stolas shows up and the five of them head to the human world to find Octavia like how they do originally, except this time Loona splits off on her own because she’s still upset from the fight.

She finds Octavia much sooner and when she explains why she took the book, Loona empathizes with her complicated feelings on her father and asks her if she wants to hang out given how it’s still early in the day and the meteor storm will be during the night. Octavia, who doesn’t have any friends her age and has been pretty miserable thanks to all of the fighting, accepts and the two go off. A montage of Loona and Octavia in human disguises getting to be normal teenagers, something they weren’t able to be before thanks to the pound and royal upbringing respectively ensues while Blitz and Stolas search for them plays. You can still have a scene with Blitz and Stolas talking about wanting to be a good parent for their daughters, just cut the flirting since they haven’t made up from Ozzie’s. Make it clear that it’s still an elephant in the room but they can genuinely relate to each other because of this. Blitz calls Loona after this talk. Loona says that she hasn’t found Octavia but Blitz says that this is okay, and that he’s sorry for threatening to replace her as a receptionist. Loona apologizes for being so careless with her duties, having a clearer head and better understanding after hanging out with Octavia. They make up and Loona ends the call, turning to Octavia to ask her if she wants to watch that meteor shower now. Octavia is choked up after hearing the talk between Loona and Blitz, and they have a similar heart to heart to the one they did in Seeing Stars.

The episode resolves in the same way, and we get hints of Loona and Octavia’s friendship throughout the rest of the season. Maybe Octavia thinks about calling Loona during Sinsmas because of her complicated feelings but remembers that Stolas is staying over and reluctantly gives up. Maybe Loona tries to call her after Mastermind to check if she’s doing alright but doesn’t get any reply. It’s a shame because Octavia has two interesting dynamics to develop and Helluva Boss isn’t interested in exploring either.

[granitegrumbles]

So, I’ve decided to rewatch Helluva Boss to prepare for the upcoming release of Season 3, and one thing stuck out to me in particular: Stolas still hasn’t apologized to Blitz, or at least not in a genuine way where he accepts the harm he has done. A common defense of this criticism is that Stolas has already apologized, moreso he has literally sacrificed his status, riches, power, and family for Blitz. Why would he have to apologize after such a clear display of his devotion? Because his actions don’t reflect that in Apology Tour, Mastermind, and Sinsmas.

Disclaimer: Stolas’s hypocrisy is an intentional character flaw. The problem is not that this problem exists, but that it is brushed over by the narrative at this point in time.

Apology Tour comes hot off the heels of Full Moon, both characters still reeling from what just happened. As a reminder, the night ended with Blitz citing all of his grievances with how Stolas has treated him so far, saying that Stolas plays with his feelings because he’s not as important as a royal and demanding that they talk right now. Stolas… teleports him outside of his palace, saying that he thinks so highly of Blitz, and didn’t know that Blitz thought so low of him.

Emotions are running high; Blitz wants things to go back to their impersonal relationship of transactional sex because that’s all he’s seen of it so far and he hates himself so much he genuinely cannot comprehend that Stolas would want him, Stolas is emotionally hurt after he opens up to Blitz and is rejected and doesn’t want to tackle with the very real way he has treated him. Both of them are pretty bad here, but there is one difference. All of Apology Tour is dedicated to showing how Blitz messed up. Stolas has a throwaway line in a song and goes right back to being seen as the victim.

In All 2 U, Stolas is backed up by the entire party as well as it’s host, telling them about how much he has dedicated to Blitz and how much of a mistake that was. He has a line or two when he wonders if some of the blame was to him, (“But maybe it’s all on me for missing every sign and every glance and every turn… What if I came on too strong, what if I read this all wrong, what if we just don’t belong?”) which is immediately stoped by Verosika and Vortex. The episode then has Blitz go to apologize to Stolas, confessing that he’s the only person Blitz actually feels like deserves one out of all the people he’s visited today. Stolas… talks about how he wants the type of love found in romcoms and romance novels. He does not say that he wants Blitz, just that he wants someone to love him. He says, “I want you to go away.”

Stolas is also drunk here, but that theme of self-centered conversation appears multiple times through the series. In Murder Family, Blitz is literally being shot at and running through the woods when Stolas calls him. The first words out of his mouth are how this is not a good time, and Stolas continues onwards anyway. In Loo Loo Land, he drags Octavia out there despite her wearing her dislike on her sleeve and hires IMP as their bodyguards so he can flirt with Blitz. Truth Seekers? He calls Blitz his “impish little plaything” and says that they are not real demons. Which. In Ozzie’s he hides his face when getting called out even though Blitz is getting verbally attacked by Fizz and Verosika. He does not try to help him like how Blitz stood up for Moxxie. Seeing Stars has him put Blitz (who is panicking at the thought of performing again and is worried about their missing daughters) on stage and flirting with him in an extremely sexual manner as Blitz is doing so despite the fact that the sitcom would provide absolutely nothing helpful towards their goal. That leads us back to Full Moon.

Stolas immediately shoots himself in the foot by saying that Blitz give him the book first without any explanation. Again, a use of an “I” statement. He then reveals the Asmodian Crystal and explains its use, saying, “This transactional thing we have… it isn’t right.” We. Stolas does not say, “This transactional thing I did to you… it isn’t right.” He does not take accountability for the situation he put Blitz in, immediately following up with how he sees the situation. He then continues, saying that Blitz should keep doing IMP… and that he wants Blitz to stay because he loves him. Another “I” statement. Their conversation continues, and this is where framing starts to come into play.

This conversation is ultimately focused on how Stolas feels, not Blitz. We are given a direct look into Blitz’s perspective, but all of the fallout is about how Stolas views it. The culmination of Blitz’s speech is not his moment of confession about the way he feels, it is Stolas saying that he didn’t know Blitz thought so low of him. The show drops all notions of addressing Blitz’s very real points, ending with Blitz apologizing to Stolas for… (checks notes) finally communicating honestly. Apology Tour focuses on how Stolas was hurt by this, and never letting up on the Blitz hate train to the point where they are burning effigies of him. Granted, Helluva Boss and background gags are their own can of worms that I will eventually get into, but as of now there is nothing short of putting Blitz up on the Literal Actual Cross that would be harsher than the party. We are not told about how Blitz views all of these people that we have never been shown that apparently loved him so much they were hurt by his actions aside from general guilty looks. We are never given the impression that some of these people might just be here for the free food or something; this episode plays the hatred 99% straight, and in the end the message is that Blitz needs to be good enough for Stolas. That leads into Ghostfuckers, and there isn’t as much to say here aside from the fact that Blitz is so broken up about Stolas he has been driven to bankrupting IMP, and the ending further reinforces that Blitz has to get better for Stolas.

Mastermind does not punish Stolas for using his position as a prince with power and status to coerce someone into a sexual relationship. Stolas losing his powers and status is a direct result of Andrealphus manipulating the court against him by using false testimonies and coming up with an excuse as to why Stolas is unfit to serve. He doesn’t accuse Stolas of being unfit to be a prince because he made the deal with Blitz, and he doesn’t argue that Stolas is unfit for lending out his grimoire irresponsibly, given how that is likely what the court of hell would care about more. He only has a token line about Stella and Octavia. This is not the show calling out Stolas’s flaws through people who have genuinely been hurt by him, this is the show using a villain to make us feel bad for Stolas and put him in Blitz’s custody. Stolas takes the blame, yes, but the entire time he was playing up the angle that he was so insulted that the court believed Blitz was the mastermind that he had to come down and reveal himself.

This is not Stolas admitting that he was the problem and facing the consequences of his actions, it is Stolas nobly sacrificing himself to save Blitz. The show is obsessed with having him as a constant victim, and never lets Stolas be in the wrong. He has still not apologized to Blitz.

[granitegrumbles]

I’ve been thinking about Lute recently, and it really strikes me how easily her plot could’ve been fixed by just moving Gravity to the last episode and have it be the teaser for season 3 instead of another Lilith reference.

When we see her again in Season 2, Lute has just come back from the death of Adam. Heaven is in disarray because of the reveal that sinners can be redeemed, meaning that the Extermination have gone from a necessary evil (in the eyes of Heaven) to a genocide of people who are the same as them. The Exorcist army is disbanded immediately, leaving Lute without a “purpose” and consistently denied the vengeance that she thinks will stop the turmoil in her soul. She has a massive musical number where she declares that she will make Charlie and Lute feel the same pain as her by taking the person they love away, and for the rest of the season she does… nothing. She lurks in the background, has a couple inflammatory lines towards Vox that lets him fully sway the public opinion of the sinners, and then Able calls her a bitch.

Imagine if instead she isn’t taken to apologize to the Sinners because Sarah and Emily know that she’ll make things worse, so Lute sneaks along. When Vox starts to speak, she storms out of hiding and threatens him. Sarah and Emily frantically swear that she isn’t with them, but Vox spins it as Heaven not trusting them and taking one of their Exorcists to keep them in line. Heaven retreats, and Sarah snaps at Lute for the damage she’s caused; go on to the scene with Sarah and Sir Pentious as Lute staggers away, beginning to imagine Adam out of her desire to be heard by someone who sees things from her perspective.

Vox attacks Heaven and Lute sees this as a final confirmation that she was right, the sinners were all evil and this was just one giant plot to get them to lower their guard, and she plunges into battle eagerly. Sarah intercepts her as Hear My Hope happens, finally using her power as an authority in Heaven to stop further violence against Sinners and make reparations. Lute demands to know why; doesn’t she see that Vox was going to kill them all? Sarah yells that they can’t condemn millions of people just because of the bad actions of a few, especially when Heaven has been acting the same for seven years. Lute is forcibly sent back to Heaven, where she finally succumbs to her pain and sings Gravity after everything at the Hotel wraps up. It’s not a perfect fix and would require some further tweaks to fit properly into the story, but it’s better than having her lurk around in the background and then get called a bitch by a male character with two minutes total of screentime.

[granitegrumbles]

This isn't related to Valentino and Ik you probably haven't talked about Lucifer in a long time, but I wanna talk about my thoughts on him in S2 and S1, mainly because people on Twitter are arguing over whether or not Hazbin Hotel's Lucifer should be a good guy. I just wanted to talk about my feelings with a crit blog that cares a little more about the writing aspect of the Hellaverse from a functional level, because the way these shows fumbles plot lines that should easily write themselves is something I have to get off my chest and want to do so without harassment or having this tied to my main account.

Arguments of "Making him the devil would be boring because that's what everyone does!" aside, I think the reason I don't care about Lucifer being a good guy in Hazbin Hotel either is ultimately because his good moral compass doesn't add onto the themes of the show regarding redemption. Not in the way him being a villain, or even just an antagonist, who comes around to being there for Charlie sincerely would. And I think him being morally gray is fine, since most interpretations are, but he's not currently morally gray now in any interesting way that suggests a character arc where he'll grow, which is literally what the show and the hotel is all about.

Is he a good guy who loves his daughter, but suffers from depression and hates sinners, which makes him seem like an indimidating and heartless figure from a distance despite him actually being very goofy and sweet? Is this a source of insecurity for him? Is it what drove Lilith away? Does he choose then to stay at the hotel after S1 to support his daughters dream, and is encouraged by her to participate with the guests in group therapy due to his own mental illness, then grows to like and relate to them over the season in the background or in an episode, thus tying back to the themes of found family and redemption? No.

Is he there to prove Charlie wrong about the fact that she can redeem sinners at all by staying at the hotel and purposefully antagonizing Alastor, who is trying to help her (or at least is forced to), because he wants her to fail and have less support if it's not his support, due to his own Pride blinding him? No. This version of Lucifer isn't evil enough to do something like that.

Does he drag his ass in being a decent father for Charlie for the first half of the season pre-episode 5 (Like how in the first episode of S2 when Charlies stressed out by the press, she asks for advice from the literal king of Hell who's been ruling since the beginning of time, and instead of giving good applicable advice for what she's dealing with like even Fraudlastor could, Lucifer just goes, "Idk Lol XD. I miss my wife Charlie. I miss her a lot", or how he didn't know Vox was publicly antagonizing his daughter until Vaggi told him, or how he ragebaited Alastor for no reason and instead created a domino effect of Alastor and Husk leaving which only makes Charlie spiral in episode 6, or how Lucifer didn't use alternative methods to get rid of Vox since he can't kill him like using the Goetia that he canonically made, meaning they aren't fallen angels in this canon so they don't have the restriction/punishment from Heaven that he does, or by hiring an IMP Assassin with angelic weapons to kill Vox, etc,) on PURPOSE, in order for him to have a moment to show Lucifer trying to be better for Charlie by NOT killing Vox, after Vox not only throws back Liliths protests TO EMPOWER SINNERS, also Lilith is a sinner? But Lucifer canonically hates sinners? Why doesn't anyone in this show ever mention that to him? in Lucifer's face, but his daughters dream of wanting to make sure no other sinner is ever killed by an angel ever again? No.

And does he at least get a moment with Charlie in the finale where she acknowledges all that he went through for her, and that she's sorry for blowing up at him, and helps him to his feet after he's been visibly and deeply hurt for what can only be assumed to be hours by Vox's machine? No, of course not, fuck you,

Like he honestly makes me so mad to think about. At least most of the characters this season focuses have connections relating to redemption and what they'll do in response to it, and to those who won't want it, or who want revenge against their opposing side for their own justified reasons. (Vox, Sera, Charlie, Lute kinda) Lucifer could honestly be removed from the season and nothing of value would be lost. Sera, Emily, Lute, and/or Vaggie all could've been used to power The Might of Lilith instead. He isn't even really a character to me - he's more like if someone wished for there to be a character like GIR again at Hot Topic for the current era of The Rawring 2020s by using a monkeys paw. He sucks so bad.

Hey, no problem! I’m always down to talk about any aspect about the Hellaverse, and Lucifer is one particularly strange thing considering how easy it should have been to get him right.

Hazbin Hotel is a show that has a severe lack of interest in its overarching themes, skimming the surface level but never going any deeper. Sir Pentious goes to heaven because he died doing the opposite of his sin (taking direct action and sacrificing himself to save his friends instead of hiding and staying silent), but how would that work for characters with different sins? Charlie says to Vox that she believes anyone can be redeemed, but she never tries to redeem someone as bad as Vox. Whenever the show tries to give an argument against redemption that the cast could meaningfully grapple with but ultimately overcome, it’s always said by comically evil characters like Adam or Lute who are defeated without a deeper exploration (EX: Lute and Adam argue that a soul already had their chance up on Earth to do good and the people in hell failed. Charlie does not investigate the circumstances that led people to sinning in the first place or show that change is possible; instead Adam gets killed).

Lucifer is one of the characters that feels weaker because of this. The writers want him to be their silly guy who’s actually trying really hard to be a good dad and is goofy sometimes, but they’ve established that he and Charlie are distant and need a reason why without making him look bad, so they come up with him being depressed by Lilith’s disappearance and seeing the evil humanity has done with free will. This isn’t a horrible reason for a sympathetic take on the devil, but it’s never properly explored either. Lucifer’s depression just kinda goes away once he reconnects with Charlie which makes it feel more like an excuse than a full facet of his character.

Furthermore, Hazbin Hotel kind of shot itself in the foot by making Lucifer reconnect with Charlie so early. Yes, they didn’t know if they’d have more than one season, but by introducing a character that powerful they immediately have to find a reason why he can’t just deal with it immediately. The reason is that he can’t hurt sinners, but that opens up way more questions. Why can he hurt Adam, an angel, but not a sinner’s soul? Why can’t he find a workaround; trapping Vox in a cage or teleporting him away wouldn’t be hurting him. Why can’t he call up any of the Deadly Sins or Ars Goeita to do the hurting for him? The answer is two things: One, a lot of Vivziepop’s writing comes up with cool ideas first and molding the rest of the story around them. She had the idea of Vox Populi and Vox Die first and needed a way to make them happen, so Lucifer can’t hurt sinners and he can’t do anything to stop Vox. Two, making him a figure that can command respect and find loopholes around the rules keeping him in place would go against the image of a goofball father trying his best.

It’s also why she can’t do anything deeper theme-wise with him than “He wanted to do something good by giving humans free will but those big meanie angels didn’t like it because they’re too strict!” because then that would mean Lucifer would have had to do something worthy of redemption. Maybe if he gave the apple as a spiteful or actively encouraging sins on earth (you know, like the devil he’s based off of) in order to get back at heaven for stifling his ideas, but Lucifer as he is now can’t meaningfully contribute to the theme of redemption beyond supporting Charlie. Maybe in season 3, but I wouldn’t get my hopes up.

[granitegrumbles]

I just watched the latest Helluva Boss short and with the exception of Hell’s Belles and Whacked Off (and even then that last one is a stretch), the shorts feel like a microcosm of everything wrong with the show’s humor.

Hell’s Belles is a look at Mille and Sally May’s relationship and how Sally worries that she no longer has a place in Millie’s life with all the excitement of I.M.P. It’s a sweet look into something that desperately needed fleshing out and it builds upon one of Millie’s bonds (something she is still severely lacking in, but it lays the groundwork for later exploration). Whacked Off is about Moxxie projecting himself onto a target but ultimately managing to untangle his personal biases when he realizes that the environment around people doesn’t give them excuses to act poorly. It’s a way better handling of his backstory than Exes and Oohs, and I would have liked to see this as a full episode if only so we could see Millie and Blitz go leeching together.

Mission Antarctica is about I.M.P having to fight penguins who say slurs. Weaboo-boo is about Blitz having to kill a client who’s really into it. Chupacabras is about Blitz getting mistaken as a chupacabra and having to escape when a shootout happens. Orphan Time is an extended joke about Blitz and Loona having to kill a comedically nice guy and results in that guy getting a brutal, drawn out death. Bad Drivezo is about Blitz having road rage and being justified in it because haha that guy wanted to blow his son. Big Boss is about Blitz getting mistaken for a CEO and getting caught up in running the place until haha epstien joke. Bigfoot is about I.M.P missing the fact that the mayor is Bigfoot because they’re so stupid and kill an innocent man. The plots in all of these boil down to “Haha sex” or “Haha violence”, and it’s usually five or six whole minutes of the same joke being repeated again and again.

Why didn’t we have a short showing how Verosika and Blitz fell in love, or at least how they broke up? Why don’t we see Octavia and Loona hanging out together after Seeing Stars? Why don’t we see Fizz rise the ranks in the entertainment industry? Even if they’re only jobs I.M.P takes, there’s so much there too. Show us Millie choosing to take the battleaxe as her signature weapon, or Loona’s first experience with combat outside of the pounds, or a target that fights back. The main strength of the shorts is that they are bite-sized bits of information about the world of Helluva Boss and the characters within it, so why are you wasting six minutes of animation, voice acting, scripting, editing, scoring, on the same “character curses and makes a sex joke” humor you’ve been doing since your PILOT?

The shorts feel like a dumping ground of sloppy jokes and excuses for merch, and if I’d have to chose between them existing at all or more time spent working on the main show I would choose the show.

[granitegrumbles]

Yes, characters like Valentino are not real. Yes, depiction does not equal endorsement. Yes, the crew are making jokes, but the way those characters are treated show such a lack of care for the real people who have suffered things similar to their victims.

It isn’t impossible to humanize an abuser while still making it clear that they’re in the wrong. To cite Vivziepop’s major source of inspiration, Bojack Horseman, we are never meant to think that Beatrice is blameless because of her backstory or her worldview, but we are given a significant look into her upbringing and the trauma she’s suffered that shaped her into an abusive mother. She is complex and multifaceted, and that is not an excuse for the way she’s treated the people in her life. Valentino’s only character traits are being an abusive rapist. He manipulates Angel Dust in an attempt to cut him off from those who offer him space away from him, and when that doesn’t work he gets physical, choking Angel Dust and throwing him around. He should, by all rules of writing, be treated as a serious threat to Angel Dust’s health both physically and mentally. Instead, he is framed as a goofy yet loveable villain. He’s too stupid to understand Vox’s plans, he’s plastered onto merchandise like mugs or t-shirts, the crew jokes that he doesn’t know what consent is, he gets a sad lines in a song where he laments that Vox is no longer paying attention to him.

Valentino is not humanized, he’s exempted. The cast do not want to portray him as a monster, not because it would be a more impactful story if they showed how even the worst person you know is still a person with their own thoughts and feelings, but because then they couldn’t sell things with his face on it. We are shown how unabashedly horrible he is in Masquerade, and he is never taken seriously again (as of writing this). He fires a fucking care-bear-stare friendship beam in the big song number about everyone coming together to save the day with the power of hope. Angel Dust leaving to hotel to stay with his abuser is treated as a sad thing for Cherri and Husk for a little bit, but Charlie quickly breezes past him on her phone call to Lilith.

Time and time again, Hazbin Hotel and its sister show have proven that they don’t care about taking abuse seriously. One joke, no matter how short it is or how lightly it is framed, compromises your integrity, and there have been far more than merely one joke. Moxxie getting assaulted by Verosika and her succubi. Pentious getting dragged into the club while screaming no. The slapstick montage of Angel Dust getting abused, complete with sound effects and a yaoi paddle. Blitz being uncomfortable with the way Stolas speaks to him multiple times, but never being listened to when he tells him to stop. It proves that either Vivziepop and her crew willingly put this in even though they fully knew what it would mean, or no one in the crew noticed how this would come off, or if someone did bring it up then it was ignored. Either way, it all points to a massive lack of care, respect, or concern for the way Spindlehorse and the people behind it think about abuse, and that is absolutely something that should be condemned. Depiction does not equal endorsement, but you can’t ignore the framing or way characters are treated by the narrative at large.

[granitegrumbles]

A strange pattern in Vivziepop’s works are sentiments made by her critics are said by antagonists or mocked figures. Most recently is this drawing in the eighth short, but it has a frequent history.

Andrealphus brings up Stolas cheating on Stella as a reason as to why she deserves compensation in the divorce. Stolas refutes that because he and Stella were never in love it doesn’t count as a betrayal. The client in Sinsmas says that her husband cheated on her. Blitz says that cheating isn't a big deal and the resolution of this plotline is tossing her out a window.

Striker brings up how Stolas treats Blitz like a plaything and that not everyone was raised in luxury. The show reframes him as a homophobic supremacist (not what that word means) who is upset that Blitz and Fizz are in relationships with royals because he’s bigoted against them.

In S2E7, Fizzaroli’s stalker is a jilted fan who believes that they could help “fix” his act, portrayed as an acne-ridden slob who drives poor sympathetic Fizz to tears.

When Adam is fighting Alastor, one of his lines when getting attacked by Alastor’s minions is “too much red”. Velvette reprises this statement, calling the hotel tacky and bringing up, once again, too much red.

Katie Killjoy and the rest of Voxtech criticize Charlie for “enforcing her puritanical beliefs” and “only protecting her favorite characters”, things I have seen multiple people bring up when discussing the first season.

This entire thing, to be honest, reeks of insecurity and bad faith. A lot of people who make criticism of her shows do it out of the hope that she’ll improve or to point out flawed messaging of some of her writing. Instead of listen to genuine advice like “Write your female characters as something other than evil bitches who need to be destroyed by the main character or bland, supportive props there to help the male characters” or “Alastor’s writing as a serial killer cannibal who practices voodoo is racist, actually”, she just frames her critiques as bigoted haters who just don’t want to see an LGBTQ show do well.

[granitegrumbles]

When people say that Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss feel like fanfiction, a lot of the people who watched and enjoyed the show get defensive because they usually are part of fandom. I myself write fanfiction, and I think the main reason why people say this is because Hazbin Hotel is an incredibly self-indulgent show that assumes the viewers are already familiar and invested in their world.

Fanfiction’s primary purpose is to allow the writer and readers to expand into the world of the source media. This could be anything from a rewrite of something the audience found disappointing or seeing two characters enter a relationship or an alternate path not taken by canon. As a result, the author of a fanfic usually doesn’t have to establish the setting or characterization or worldbuilding, as the audience will already be familiar with it. You don’t have to do a lengthy explanation of Character A’s backstory and why that gave them attachment issues, you can just write that oneshot where they open up to Character B about it. You don’t have to explain the system of magic in the world and how it effects the people inside of it, you can just have that cool fight scene between your favorite characters.

Hazbin Hotel was in a unique position as a fandom, because all it had was a pilot, a couple comics, and lots of sketches to go after as its canon. In order for a pilot to get picked up, especially an indie one put onto the internet, it has to either have an interesting enough premise and/or large amounts of support. In this way, sharing facts about the world on drawing livestreams was a good way to keep the fanbase engaged until it got picked up; you could properly put it into the worldbuilding later and keep your fans interested to prove to studios that there was a large group of people following your work. The problem is that it never got implemented into the show.

While we don’t know what went on behind the scenes in the production of Hazbin Hotel, it’s pretty clear that they didn’t know if season 1 was going to be all they had, and as a result tried to cram everything into one before it got more. For those already heavily invested in Vivziepop’s works, this wasn’t much of a problem. There was disappointment that there weren’t more episodes, yes, but people had already gotten to know these characters, their designs, their backstories, why Hell was like this, etc. The introductions are less “The show established a character’s personality, background, and skills” and more “Look! It’s the character you like!” Vivziepop herself has said that some of her characters have existed since middle school, and it certainly shows.

Hazbin Hotel is a show that is very fun to daydream about, and I think that’s why it got as big as it did. It has an incredibly interesting concept with a unique artstyle and, regardless of what you think of it now, a ton of passion put behind it when the pilot first aired. It was a labor of love, and that attracted fans that had the same love of the world they were shown. The show’s problems seemed like they could be fixed with Vivziepop gaining more experience as well as resources present in a studio. Unfortunately, they did not get fixed.

One of the pieces of writing advice I see get tossed around a lot is “kill your darlings”. Hazbin Hotel is one of the biggest examples of this problem. It doesn’t literally mean to kill off your characters (or not all time time), rather if a plot point, power, scene, character, setting, or any number of things that you really like is unable to make sense in the story, it’s best to cut it out instead of trying to fit it in unnaturally. Hazbin Hotel does not kill its darlings. It wants to have every plotline, every song, every side character, and makes the show feel rushed and bloated as a result. Again, this is fine when you are writing fanfiction, because it is primarily done as a way for the author to see what they want to see.

It’s fun to be self-indulgent; I know that there are moments in my writing that exist primarily because it is what I wanted, regardless of if it would actually happen. Shows can do self-indulgence well; it’s when the show prioritizes that over cohesive writing that it becomes a problem, and it plagued Hazbin throughout both of its seasons. It doesn’t bother with actually writing the characters getting to know each other and opening up beyond one or two episodes, instead it timeskips to five months later in which everyone is friends already. It doesn’t bother explaining how sinners work in hell or how they gain their powers, instead showing flashy battles where they use those powers. It introduces conflicts and resolves them almost instantly because it wants to move on to the next big moment. It handwaves away things like that because you should already know it from a livestream or tweet or old comic.

This treatment seeps into her online presence as well. Vivziepop is incredibly intertwined with the fandom of this show, often liking or retweeting posts that she agrees with. It feels like exaggeration when I say this, but I think this is one of the reasons why the Hazbin fandom is so toxic. Her close proximity to it allows her to directly see and respond to criticism, and her fans will back her up regardless of what it is. She is directly in the thick of it, surrounding herself with an echo chamber of people who will defend and support her no matter what, and it impacts both of her shows. You’d know this character’s backstory if you watched a livestream from seven years ago. You’d know how hell’s hierarchy worked if you saw the chart she posted on twitter. You’d know why none of her female characters get an even amount of screentime as her male characters if you saw a post she made. Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss are shows made for the fans, and that is for better and most certainly for worse.

[granitegrumbles]

Not only is the “rivalry” between Alastor and Lucifer pointless and takes time away from more important plots, it detracts from all characters involved.

Lucifer and Charlie already have a paper-thin excuse as to why they’re estranged, and they make up in the span of one episode. The closest the show ever comes to creating conflict between them is Lucifer not believing in her dream of redeeming Sinners because of all the time he’s spent watching them, only being able to see the worst things people do with their free will. Charlie rebuts this, they sing a song together, they hug, rocky relationship over. This plot is centered entirely around themselves and also kinda Lilith, who appears as a faceless flashback who takes a young Charlie away from her father. This is a Morningstar family affair, and any other character’s knowledge of it is surface level.

Alastor does not need to be involved, and if he did because Rosie was actually Lilith/working with Lilith, there were far better ways to go about it than “Lucifer and Alastor argue over who’s the better father”. I’d like to make it clear that Alastor doesn’t actually think of himself as Charlie’s father figure, and is rather doing it as a way to get a rise out of Lucifer. This is still a stupid plotline. I can see why it exists: Alastor exists as the main powerhouse around the Hotel, with connections to help staff it and defend it from enemies. Lucifer showing up directly threatens that position as he outranks Alastor in every way and has a deeper personal connection to Charlie as her father, so he has to do something to make her think that he’s the better choice. The execution, however, causes it to fall apart.

Alastor has done nothing fatherly to Charlie prior to this, so the angle of him being a replacement Lucifer feels hollow. At best he’s been slightly nice to her inbetween all of his failed aurafarming attempts, and that still misses the mark on why she told Lucifer about the Hotel. Charlie didn’t want to see him for his power, she wanted to see him to prove herself to her father and reconnect. Alastor, an alleged master manipulator who’s pulling strings in the shadows, doesn’t go for an easier sell, instead taking a convoluted route to piss off Lucifer.

Second, this whole rivalry completely ignores Charlie’s feelings. She’s reduced to something two male characters are fighting over instead of having her own views on the situation, blindly falling for Alastor’s angle of him caring for her like his own daughter. What does she think about her father coming over to the Hotel to see her, and then spending most of the time beefing with Alastor instead? Does she feel conflicted on the points made in the argument, and how Lucifer presents himself as the best option despite not seeing her for years? Has she warmed up to Alastor seeing all he’s done to help out the hotel, but she’s unable to tell if it was done out of genuine goodwill or an attempt to curry favor with her? Does she get fed up with their petty one-upping and leave, letting Lucifer realize that he’s gotten distracted from what actually matters: seeing his daughter again? No. The plot moves along with Charlie having no deeper thoughts on this matter.

Third, Alastor already has significant screentime with a rival. Vox is not only better suited for the role but there’s an actual reason for them to butt heads. Alastor and Vox are both Overlords, and in the power vacuum left by Alastor’s seven-year disappearance Vox and the other Vees have tried to fill it. Alastor reappearing threatens him, and on a more symbolic level they show the way time changes effect the denizens of Hell; do they cling to what they lived in when they were still alive, or do they enjoy new technological developments? Alastor and Lucifer are in completely different weightclasses as Lucifer is the literal king of Hell, even if he can’t harm Sinners. It feels strange that a being from almost the creation of the universe is stooping to argue with a random radio host.

Moreover, it muddles the intended portrayal of Lucifer as an awkward but trying father. Regardless of how much you like it, Viv is very much trying to make him sympathetic and mostly blameless, with the apple being given as an attempt to give humans free will instead of trying to get them to get kicked out of Eden. He’s anxious and obsessed with making rubber ducks in a drive to regain the spark that once made his daughter happy as a child, and after Lilith left, getting depressed. Having him come to his daughter’s passion project only to spend his time arguing with one of the people there over who’s the better father really makes the whole “He’s trying to be a better parent” thing fall flat. It makes him look petty and more interested in Charlie as a source of affection than as an actual person.

There’s a pretty huge missed opportunity here, and that’s the found family Charlie’s made at the Hotel. Alastor has one line about how “They say the family you choose is better”, that Lucifer swiftly interrupts by calling them a bunch of losers. While the show skips over most of the bonding between the Hotel residents with a timeskip, by this point they’re supposed to be close. Alastor might not be a replacement father, but he’s been around the Hotel through the good and bad, even helping get it off the ground. Despite the seeming allergy to showing any scenes between them, we can assume that they’re at least on good terms even if Charlie finds his worldview distasteful. What does she think about her father, a man who’s been absent from her life for quite a while, calling the friends she’s made a bunch of losers and expecting her to choose him as the “true option” despite his general disinterest in the Hotel? Is this one of the reasons why they haven’t talked for a while? Did Lucifer’s pride get in the way of having a meaningful relationship with his daughter?

The answer to those questions is nothing, because this show would rather have a plotline that should focus on one of their main female characters get interrupted and derailed by Vivziepop’s favorite tumblr sexymen. It’s a pointless conflict that exists for no deeper meanings than the creation thinking that it would be funny.

[granitegrumbles]

A lot of people outside of the critical community wonder why people like Stella but hate Stolas, and a huge aspect of that comes down to realism.

Stella is undeniably, proudly evil. She gleefully tells her friends about how bad Stolas is in bed at her “Not Divorced” parties, she demands that Striker kills Stolas at the dinner table for her whole family to see, she tosses entire Imps at him when she’s upset, she loudly yells about how much she hates him to anyone who will listen, and perhaps, most obvious of all, tells a post-cry Stolas that she likes tormenting him. For all intents and purposes, she is on the same level of evil as a disney villain like the Wicked Stepmother or Evil Queen, someone who does horrible things without a single care in the world for how much harm it causes just because they can. She exists less as a character and more as a plot device to make Stolas miserable.

More pressingly, the show never makes an attempt to delve deeper into her abusive tendencies and the way it affects the people around her. Yes, sometimes abusers don’t have any reason to be abusive beyond just wanting power. Perhaps that’s the case with Stella, but the show unknowingly presents a different view. We are expected to sympathize with Stolas because he was forced into an arranged marriage with someone he never loved as well as having to raise a child. Stella is in this exact same scenario, but this is never adressed. Stella is also low in the Goeita hierarchy, with the divorce originally going to result in all of Stolas’s possessions going to Octavia, his heir, instead. Andrealphus is constantly patronizing her and making disgusting comments towards her about how she’s lucky she’s attractive. When Stolas does get stripped of his privileges as a prince, Andrealphus takes over his castle and Stella lives there.

Octavia says that when she was younger, her parents didn’t fight all the time. That means that Stella’s abusive tendencies were either not present when Octavia was a child, or they were hidden somehow. Yes, sometimes children raised in abusive households think that said abuse is normal for a family. This is clearly not the case, given how Octavia says that there was a time when things were “normal”. Furthermore, in Ozzie’s, it is stated that Octavia is out with her mother, having a girl’s night. This is played at full face value; it’s a throwaway line meant to explain why Stolas could go on this date in the first place. We are never meant to be worried if Octavia is facing the same abuse as Stolas here. Does that mean that Stella is kinder around Octavia? Well, we don’t know anything about their relationship. We are never given scenes where they do something together more meaningful than exchange a couple lines about how bad of a father Stolas is, something the show frames as Stella and Andrealphus trying to manipulate Octavia.

Vivziepop’s shows consistently fail to think of the deeper implications of their plots, and as a result have written a noblewomen with no power of her own get forced into a marriage with a man she hates, forced to have a child with said man, and then has to watch her husband jeopardize the honor of their family for a cheap fling with one of Hell’s lower class demons, who has access to the most important inheritance item Octavia will get. The only person on her “side” is her brother who views her as a pawn and flirts with her, and she is unable to rebuff his advances because it would mean being cut out of his scheme. We are never intended to feel an ounce of pity for her, or view her as a character beyond Stolas’s evil bitch wife.

Stolas, on the other hand, is constantly defended by the show. It bends over backwards to erase or downplay his mistakes. It frames Blitz’s unwillingness to be in a romantic relationship with the person who coerced him into sleeping with him for essentially the lives of himself, his family, and friends as Blitz being so full of self-loathing he couldn’t believe that anyone could ever want him. It has any criticism against him or his actions as coming from bigoted haters who are always defeated in the end, or good guys who have stumbled into a misunderstanding. It never expects him to apologize or take accountability for what he’s done, treating the Asmodian Crystal as being enough to wipe the slate clean. It gives him overwhelming amounts of screentime and songs while neglecting characters like Loona and Millie, who are instantly willing to accept and defend him no matter how he treated them in past episodes.

Stolas comes across as a far more realistic depiction of an abuser than Stella as a result; someone who always frames themselves as the victim of a situation while refusing to ever accept responsibility for what they’ve done in the past. Any promises to be better are broken later and are replaced with more promises until the person they’re speaking to gets sick of it and leaves. They briefly reflect on their actions, wondering if they’re the problem, before doubling down on being blameless. They give their victim the illusion of free choice, but immediately react poorly when the victim unknowingly makes the “wrong” one. There are a thousand other posts, some of my own, pointing out Stolas’s flaws and hypocritical nature, so I won’t go deeper here.

Stella exists as a cartoon villain who isn’t treated as anything other than a cackling, bitchy wife to make Stolas miserable despite the way the deeper implications of the story show someone dealt a horrible hand in life. Stolas is presented as a flawed and complex character, but because of the way the narrative twists itself to absolve him of any blame it ends up making him feel predatory and more like an abuser than the cardboard cutout that is his wife.

[granitegrumbles]

Hazbin Hotel’s missed opportunities and lack of thinking out the implications of things shines extremely heavily in its treatment of Vaggie (and also Lute).

Vaggie used to be an Exorcist, one of the best, actually. When she suffers a moment of weakness and lets a sinner escape, her superiors take notice and cut out her wings as well as an eye, turning her into a fallen angel. They leave her to bleed out and die when Charlie Morningstar, who assumes that she’s a wounded sinner, finds her, heals her, and takes her in. When we see them again, they’re in a happy and supportive relationship.

This immediately raises a ton of questions for her character. How did a previous Exterminator adapt to life in hell, to the point where she’s dating the Princess of Hell? How did she move away from the militaristic and conservative setting of the Exterminators that would have been baked into her mind? What about suffering two major disabilities; Heaven’s residents are constantly shown flying around, so how does losing major body parts affect her? Did she go along with Charlie’s dream of redemption because she wished to ascend back to Heaven, or did she think it was doomed to fail and didn’t want to discourage the person who saved her at her lowest?

Her first plotline is about how Vaggie feels like she’s nothing without Charlie. Okay! A former Exterminator, lacking in a purpose, latches on to the person who showed her kindness when she first fell, and is now heavily devoted to her. That lines up with everything established so far. How will we expand upon this? Well, it doesn’t really. They have a heart to heart, Vaggie sings a duet with Carmilla, this whole plotline concludes with her still being supportive of Charlie and her goals. Her time as an Exterminator is done more as a shocking twist than an explored plot point, with Charlie forgiving her shortly after.

It gets a brief reprise with Out For Love, with Carmella telling Vaggie she needs to stop fighting with hate, and instead fight to protect. Except… she has already been fighting to protect Charlie. That’s what this plot was about. She inexplicably regains her wings at the end of this, and goes against the Exterminators with no further issues This is where Lute comes in. She’s Adam’s right hand man, and is our best reference for what an Exterminator is like beyond the brief scene where Adam rallies the troops and they start booing Vaggie. She is cold, calculated, and enthusiastic about the slaughter of sinners, serving as the straight man to Adam’s more immature personality. When the Extermination starts, she and Vaggie fight against each other, resulting in her losing an arm (despite the fact that the arm was trapped under rubble that was not angelic in any regard). Adam is defeated, giving one genuine smile to Lute before he dies, and the surviving Exterminators retreat to Heaven.

From what the first season has given us, it’s safe to say that one of the only meaningful relationships Vaggie has with another character is with Lute, with the other two being Charlie and Carmilla. Lute is the one who cut her wings off as well as her eye, and now has suffered a disability of her own because of Vaggie. Does Vaggie see what she used to be reflecting back at her with Lute, someone who slaughtered without mercy and was proud of it? Is that why she fought with hatred? With the added detail in season 2 of Vaggie having a lesbian lover before falling, and being separated by Lute and Adam, how does that change their dynamic further? How did she fall in love with this Exorcist, and how did she grapple with her lesbianism, given that the Exorcist army is implied to be homophobic by Lute saying, “Their love is vile and blasphemous.”? Did that cause any struggles when her relationship with Charlie was still forming? How did she deal with that?

The hype for season 2 culminated in a music video being posted: Gravity, sung by Lute about how she was going to get revenge on Vaggie (and also Charlie, but less so) by making her watch as she lost the person she loved most. In the context of the episode it appears in, this number starts after Lute has been dismissed and mocked by most of Heaven’s court for wanting Adam to be avenged, and having the position of leader given to Able instead of her. She seems to hallucinate Adam out of a desire to feel seen and heard by someone who will support her unconditionally, ending the song in a room that used to belong to him, almost all of its contents wrecked. The rest of her screentime up until the finale is spent with her angrily waiting in the background for the order to attack, often trying to convince Serah into doing so.

During the finale, Lute attempts to fight during Hear My Heart before being stopped. By who? Do Charlie and Vaggie fight her together, proving that the strength of their love will triumph over Lute’s hatred? Does Serah get her to back off, finally using the authority she had as a powerful figure in Heaven to right the wrongs she first started when she authorized the Exterminations all those (seven) years ago? No. It’s Able.

Able, and there is no beating around the bush about it, is a side character. He has incredibly short screen time, spends most of it being a chiller version of Emily who is anxious and soft, and his relationship to Adam is pretty much in name only. Lute says that Able was his least favorite son, and Able accepts this before calmly moving on with the meeting. There’s never a scene later where he expresses any deeper emotions until the finale. Able realizes that he has to be more like his misogynistic father, and gets Lute to back down by calling her a bitch. There are no apt words that could have described my anger at this scene, but perhaps this giant post helped express it a little.

Yes, they’re probably saving Lute to be a villain later, given how the show has two more seasons to go. That is no excuse for writing what you hyped up to be a secondary antagonist getting told to stop by a character that barely matters over your actual, already established in season 1 characters. There had to have been a better way than calling a woman who had been dismissed and belittled by her peers a bitch, and this being framed as the correct action by a likeable character.

Vivziepop’s works, again and again, have shown that they are willing to prioritize male characters regardless of their importance over female characters and their arcs. It’s present in their treatment of Millie and Loona, it’s present in their treatment of Stella and Octavia, and it is overwhelmingly present in season 2 of Hazbin Hotel, with Charlie, Vaggie, and Lute all getting shafted in favor of whatever male character Viv likes at the moment.

[granitegrumbles]

Hello! I’m going on anon because I mostly browse the hazbin critical tag for fun and for justification to not bother with s2 despite the few cool scene clips I’ve seen - your long post about show over storyline really dug into the heart of what I feel a lot of people are upset about, and what I felt from s1 - let’s erase the impactful/plot-building moments for a cool fight scene instead! Really enjoyed reading your critiques - you’re very articulate and I was saying ‘yeah!!’ in agreement the whole time I was reading them. kudos!

Thank you! I feel like that’s something Vivziepop doesn’t realize when she talks about her critics: that a lot of them used to be former fans who were put off by the writing decisions made in both of her shows.

The pilot became so huge because it had an incredibly interesting concept, beautiful and charming animation, and characters ripe for exploration. It promised a story about sinners from all walks of life and time who have landed in hell attempting to better themselves in a bid to reach heaven, and all of the struggles that would entail. Even the rougher parts of the pilot like the hurried introduction of Husk and Nifty could be overlooked, because it was a pilot. This was Vivziepop’s second major project, any mistakes could be ironed out in production with the help of more experienced writers as well as her learning as she went.

In the time between the pilot and the show, she would mention elements of the plot and characters in speed draws or interviews, and had two supplemental comics to help flesh out Angel Dust and Alastor. These were bits of information that were important to understanding the worldbuilding or a character, and they would surely be expanded off of when the show finally released. While it seemed like there would have been a fight with heaven eventually, a lot of people thought it would be in a later season and that the first one would be dedicated to just the characters and the worldbuilding.

The problem with Hazbin Hotel, when it finally released, is that she hadn’t learned from her mistakes made in Helluva Boss and instead seemed to double down: tonal whiplash, female characters not getting enough exploration, too many plotlines, and most glaringly of all, how rushed everything was.

I am willing to give a bit of grace here; it’s clear that she didn’t know if she was going to get another season, so she tried to push what should have been the climax of the show or at least season 2 into eight episodes. The modern industry usually doesn’t allow for more than that, and it’s a shame because Hazbin Hotel is one of those shows that desperately needs twelve or more episodes.

That being said, the problems are still there. Any amount of knowledge on what was going on behind the scenes doesn’t stop a show from being poorly written. One of the things I noticed going into episodes 1 and 2 was that the show clearly expected you to be familiar and invested in its characters already, throwing out the looming threat of a sooner Extermination… with most viewers not really caring because they either only watched the pilot and didn’t get in the fandom, or having this episode be their first-ever introduction to Hazbin Hotel.

The show barrels on, more concerned with what the AUTHOR would enjoy than what would make sense for the first season of a show. A lot of the scenes with the hotel cast feel begrudging, like filming the commercial and fighting together, were only there because they had to be. Only Angel Dust gets a focus episode diving into his life (in hell) and problems, and after this there’s a timeskip of FOUR TO FIVE MONTHS in which the hotel cast have probably gotten closer together, but we aren’t shown anything. That’s when the rest of season 1 switches heavily into the fight against Adam, but it still leaves so much lacking.

Do Pentious and Angel Dust have any unexpected shared interests? What about Vaggie’s hobbies? Does Husk have any friends outside of the hotel that he misses? Is Nifty ever going to be anything other than a one-note gag? These are the things that make a character feel alive, and I can’t name a single thing aside from the most surface level “they like to build machines/gamble/have sex”. Aside from Angel Dust’s episode, we never have any scenes where the hotel cast opens up to each other, and I’m excluding Charlie and Vaggie because they’re already dating when the show starts. It makes the dramatic stakes of the Extermination feel hollow because aside from the surface level, we don’t know anything about these characters! It’s why the big, triumphant number at the end feels unearned; the show wants us to see it as the hotel defeating the Exterminators with the power of the bonds they made, but because they’re so underdeveloped it lacks impact.

[granitegrumbles]

I am so fucking mad

[granitegrumbles]

One of Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss’s biggest problems is that it will neglect foreshadowing, preestablished themes, and logic in favor of making something cool, dramatic, or funny.

Vox has a spy inside the Hotel! Ignore the fact that there has been absolutely no mentions of a spy before this scene; it can’t be Pentious because he was redeemed, so then who? Well, Baxter is pretty obviously connected to Vox: he used to work at Voxtech before coming to the Hotel, is constantly taking notes on everyone and everything, and has had no other story significance aside from a little bit of backstory with Pentious. While it might not be shocking, it’s been built up between episodes and- nope! It’s Angel Dust! He was hypnotized inbetween scenes and has been secretly been reporting everything to Vox despite the fact that Cherry Bomb has been spending a lot of time with him and Angel has been showing his phone to other characters with no sign of foul play! How dramatic!

Inside Hell, there are groups of sinners that have risen the ranks and become Overlords. They own souls and usually certain industries, boasting a variety of powers with them. The show, however, doesn’t explain much about what an Overlord is beyond that. How do soul contracts work and how are sinners able to make them? Not answered. How do Overlords get their powers in the first place- does it correspond to how many souls they have, and if so, what determines what your powers are? Not important. Come look at this fight scene between Alastor and the Vees where they throw each other into buildings and use their respective theming! Isn’t that cool?

Heaven doesn’t know how to make peace with Hell now that they’ve discovered that sinners can be redeemed. Due to their distance and naivety, Emily and Able propose that they bring down gift baskets as a way to apologize for letting the Extermination happen. So funny!

This would be okay in moderation. All shows are built upon reaching certain points in their story, and those points are often funny or cool or dramatic. I’m not saying that your story shouldn’t have things that are any of the above without extensive planning. However, there are times when both shows sacrifice what would be good for their story because it would elicit a temporary moment of instant gratification that falls apart when you look at the rest of the show.

Rosie has actually owned Alastor’s soul this whole time and has been using him to do her vague bidding! How dramatic! Except… there are no bits of foreshadowing to this being the case. Sure, Husk mentions that he’s not the only person on a leash when Alastor confronts him, but that’s very vague and unspecific. There are no scenes in Hello Rosie that hint of something more sinister going on underneath the smiles; Alastor appears to genuinely value her company and advice. There’s never a moment where Charlie’s out of earshot and the conversation gets more tense, or a moment where Alastor privately expresses disdain at having to come to the person who own his soul for help. He’s the one who proposes going to Rosie in the first place! It’s a big reveal, but beyond shock value it lacks logic. It’s also super racist, but I’ve made a different post about that.

Lucifer goes to intimidate Vox and get him to back down, showing up with a rock number and giant firey snake! Vox reveals that Lucifer can’t actually hurt anyone and flips the song with a rephrase where he declares himself the king of Hell and gets a newer, bigger form! How cool! Except… Lucifer being unable to hurt sinners makes no sense when he’s clearly able to hurt angels. If Heaven’s way of punishing him was forcing him to see his greatest failure and all of the bad he’s brought into the world without being able to do anything about it, why would he be able to beat up Adam? Arguably making sure that he can’t hurt angels should be the bigger priority because if he ever tries to get Hell to rise up, he’ll probably be the one leading the charge. Whatever! Look at this song!

There’s a montage of Vox doing a bunch of petty things to spite Alastor like hosting a parade or ordering a milkshake with two straws and drinking it all in front of him. This montage ends with the reveal that Alastor, a sex-repulsed asexual, was tied to a chair and forced to watch Vox and Valentino have sex. Funny, at least if you’re Vivziepop. Not only does this ruin an alright joke, it further contributes to the rift between how Hazbin Hotel treats sexual assault. In Episode 4 of Season 1, we’re shown an incredibly serious portrayal of the abuse Angel Dust suffers at the hands of Valentino. This “joke” and the one made where Pentious gets dragged into a room against his will where he screams no and claws at the floor, completely undercut the message they’re trying to show with Angel Dust. But it’s only a joke!!! People are so sensitive nowadays!!! God forbid the bad guys do bad things!!! (Yeah, no. Depiction may not be endorsement, but framing something as serious as sexual assault as a haha funny certainly is).

I’m sure there are plenty more examples of moments like this, but these are just the most recent in my memory. When you’re working on the second season of your second show, it stops being a beginner’s mistake and becomes just bad writing.

TLDR:

[granitegrumbles]

The thing about Hazbin Hotel is that it’s a show that presents very interesting questions and then consistently takes the most boring option.

Can people who have already done horrible things when they were alive find redemption in the afterlife? Can anyone be redeemed, or are there certain things that can never be forgiven? How does heaven decide what counts as redeemed or not? Yes, but the only character to get admitted into heaven so far’s sin was incredibly minor and any discussion on what redemption requires mostly boils down to “don’t do drugs and sleep around”.

How does heaven judge things like violence in self-defense or people trying to redeem themselves when they’re still alive? What about the people in heaven who have been hurt by the sinners attempting to redeem themselves? Do they view the exterminations as a necessary evil or is it revenge for those once alive? Well, heaven doesn’t know about the exterminations. They also don’t know what gets someone into heaven. It was just the Bad Angels that liked the exterminations, and now that they’re gone all of heaven is cool except for the important characters. The extermination was also only for seven years, so it really wasn’t THAT bad.

How is a cast of people from across the decades with different backgrounds and nationalities going to deal with each other and reaching redemption? Does their culture or time period lead to them having tension with others? Do they miss their era or do they enjoy what the future has brought? Well, aside from a couple background details like their favorite food or what they fight with, their previous lives and what landed them in hell are barely mentioned, the show more interested in what they’ve done in hell than their life before.

[granitegrumbles]

Another problem with Charlie even if you chalk all of the Episode 3 problems up to pride or an intentional writing decision is that she’s still in the same place she started in the beginning of the series.

Episode 1 of Season 1? Charlie needs to prove to heaven that redemption is possible and sinners can change. Episode 3 of Season 2? Charlie needs to prove to Vox and the rest of hell that redemption is possible and sinners can change. We as the audience might know that she’s right, but watching the show rehash the same drama makes it lack the original’s impact. We’ve already seen her panic and attempt to rush redemption to get a sinner into heaven to stop the extermination, so watching her pressure and rush Angel Dust to prove to all of hell that redemption is possible just feels frustrating to watch. It feels like we’re retreading old problems when there’s so much new stuff going on.