Protector against Pride

My OTPs are Kallura, Zutara, Sorato, Michi, Daikari, Kenyako! Please do send me asks - I love to chat.

[guardiandua91]

Re-introduction: Hi everyone!!

So there's a few things I felt I was a bit harsh on in my original introduction because I came across as arrogant and God hates arrogance.

My fandoms are pretty much the same: Digimon, Voltron: Legendary Defender and sometimes Avatar: The Last Airbender. Oh! I also love the show 'Sirf Tum' still, I just write for it less because I like using Hanan and Abeer as inspiration in general for when I write romance.

I also love the other versions of Voltron and can even admit they did a lot of things better than VLD. Yeah, I no longer see VLD with the rose tinted glasses that I used to. I still love Keith and I still love Allura's potential as a character and the show in general. But I'm more aware of it's flaws and I'm definitely aware of how toxic this fandom is now.

I will say this though: if you see a character a certain way (gay, straight, bi, ace), you have every right to even if the canon says differently. I do the same for Shiro - I make him straight despite being gay in canon. I don't support LGBTQ+. It's against my religion but I forgot one thing which is mostly why I'm redoing this intro post.

My religion is also against arrogance and judging people. It doesn't matter if I disagree with your path in life. I'm a sinner - I have sinned and will probably continue to sin, so who am I to judge anyone? So you will not be seeing any of that from me. I do not support it, I will not support it but you do you and don't take away from people who disagree. I see so much hate towards non-toxic pairings like Keith x Acxa or in the Digimon fandom, Matt x Sora. Like people, it doesn't matter what is canon or not. Fandom is supposed to be a space that makes us happy. So, please don't be desperate - love what you want as long as you're not hurting anybody and don't engage with what you don't like. This is something I have to learn too so I'm not just lecturing anyone.

I struggle with OCD and severe anxiety and that can lead to spirals/intrusive thoughts into a loop/cycle.

I love Keith/Allura. Keith is my favourite VLD character and I believe he's sorely underrated. Yes, I like Black Paladin Keith.

I love Matt/Sora (Digimon Zero Two). I'm not sure how popular Matt is but I could always relate to him as a kid.

Lastly, a message to Klance fans: You guys need to stop being so insecure of Kallura and Kacxa. I've seen it more with Kallura but I have heard of the hate poor Acxa gets. Ship Klance. Write fanfiction. Do fanart but please stop harassing those who don't ship the pairing.

I don't know if Sheith fans are that bad - I've mostly seen the worst from Klance fans. Sheith fans tend to ship quietly at least on Tumblr and I don't ship the pairing so I don't interact on AO3.

So, ship and let ship. It's fictional and we're all sinners in some way or the other, so let's believe in God's Mercy and I also promise not to spread any more hate or be arrogant about anything. I will continue to do what I do quietly and hopefully He can guide me towards the right path.

[guardiandua91]

Evie has Covert Narcissistic Personality Disorder

I normally don't like diagnosing fictional characters but I see people casually call Ben and Audrey narcissists when Evie is the actual narcissist.

"These women may initially appear charming, generous, or even self-sacrificing. But underneath that surface is a strong need for admiration, control, and power over how others see them. Their tactics can feel confusing because they often play the victim or the “perfect” woman, making it hard to spot what’s going on."

Evie appears sweet and generous. Oh, she wants to help the Isle kids, that's so amazing. She's such a good best friend to Mal - and she totally loves her. Evie appears very charming. Helping the Isle kids is generous and being with a Prince was Evie's dream but she's super supportive of Mal being the one to cast the love spell on Ben.

Covert control: Instead of yelling or demanding, she might use guilt, silent treatment, or play the victim to get her way.

"Please don't ruin this for us."

"We're Auradon girls now."

"I didn't know what you were going through."

Evie guilts Mal into shutting up in Descendants 2. She plays the victim that she didn't know later despite Mal telling her.

Image obsession: She may work hard to be seen as the “perfect” mom, wife, or friend, and lash out if anyone challenges that.

Evie did not appreciate Carlos stopping her from taking Mal away at the end of Descendants 2. She accepted it but she didn't like it at first, quickly covering her tracks to be the sweet, supportive friend again.

Emotional manipulation: Narcissistic women often twist situations to make others feel confused, ashamed, or responsible for their emotions.

Evie does this a lot! In Descendants 2, the most. She literally laughs at Mal when she talks about missing the Isle. She makes Mal feel ashamed for using the spellbook despite knowing her struggles.

Jealousy and competition: She may seem supportive on the outside, but secretly compete with friends, daughters, or peers.

Now, I know what people will say - Audrey gets way more jealous! Audrey's jealousy in that meet the VKs scene is so obvious that even a toddler could see it. Same with the scene "but where will I be?" there is no secrets in that lol, yes she's being vain but she's upfront about her insecurity. Yes, you could make an excuse that she's upfront with Ben. But people can hear, they're in public. On the contrast, Evie acts so supportive of Mal and Ben, but practically yanks Mal away from Ben after the reporters scene, later gives him a flirty smile and hello to the point where even Mal glares at Evie and this is her best friend. And the moment Mal is out of the picture, Evie is so touchy with Ben.

Lack of empathy: She struggles to truly understand or care about others’ feelings, unless it affects how she’s perceived.

Evie had no care on Mal's feelings in Descendants 2 - and going away from Mal for a bit. By the time of Descendants 2, Evie has been in Auradon for six months. She's forgotten the Isle, she doesn't even want to go back there for Mal. But the moment Dizzy butters her up and is sweet to her, she's like I can be a hero in this little girl's eyes and immediately starts worrying about the Isle kids out of nowhere and it becomes her plot point more than Uma's. Uma doesn't mind being the bad guy if it means saving these kids. Evie wants to look good.

I realise as I'm writing this I see a lot of these things in other characters too but not Ben and Audrey.

Yeah, I know Ben did follow a cycle of love bombing, devaluation and then hoovering in Descendants 2 but I don't know if it was something intentional from his end because he doesn't feel like a narcissist but yeah that was written dangerous.

Audrey is jealous and entitled but she does not lack empathy. You could argue she's obsessed with image sometimes but at most, she meets that one and she's really upfront about her feelings. You're never guessing when it comes to Audrey and this girl was meant to be the evillest of them all.

Chad could also potentially have NPD but he's written as such a comic relief that I think he's just meant to be an obsessive moron.

[descenderintofantasy]

This needs to be said! If people think they can call Ben and Audrey narcissists and get away with it. Then we should be able to say this about EVIE as well!

[guardiandua91]

It's more that people who are NPD are different in private and public. Ben made his proclamation in private to his parents before making it public. He's consistent. Audrey is a mean girl in public and we don't know what she's like in private, though judging by her date photo with Ben, she's nicer in private.

[guardiandua91]

Evie has Covert Narcissistic Personality Disorder

I normally don't like diagnosing fictional characters but I see people casually call Ben and Audrey narcissists when Evie is the actual narcissist.

"These women may initially appear charming, generous, or even self-sacrificing. But underneath that surface is a strong need for admiration, control, and power over how others see them. Their tactics can feel confusing because they often play the victim or the “perfect” woman, making it hard to spot what’s going on."

Evie appears sweet and generous. Oh, she wants to help the Isle kids, that's so amazing. She's such a good best friend to Mal - and she totally loves her. Evie appears very charming. Helping the Isle kids is generous and being with a Prince was Evie's dream but she's super supportive of Mal being the one to cast the love spell on Ben.

Covert control: Instead of yelling or demanding, she might use guilt, silent treatment, or play the victim to get her way.

"Please don't ruin this for us."

"We're Auradon girls now."

"I didn't know what you were going through."

Evie guilts Mal into shutting up in Descendants 2. She plays the victim that she didn't know later despite Mal telling her.

Image obsession: She may work hard to be seen as the “perfect” mom, wife, or friend, and lash out if anyone challenges that.

Evie did not appreciate Carlos stopping her from taking Mal away at the end of Descendants 2. She accepted it but she didn't like it at first, quickly covering her tracks to be the sweet, supportive friend again.

Emotional manipulation: Narcissistic women often twist situations to make others feel confused, ashamed, or responsible for their emotions.

Evie does this a lot! In Descendants 2, the most. She literally laughs at Mal when she talks about missing the Isle. She makes Mal feel ashamed for using the spellbook despite knowing her struggles.

Jealousy and competition: She may seem supportive on the outside, but secretly compete with friends, daughters, or peers.

Now, I know what people will say - Audrey gets way more jealous! Audrey's jealousy in that meet the VKs scene is so obvious that even a toddler could see it. Same with the scene "but where will I be?" there is no secrets in that lol, yes she's being vain but she's upfront about her insecurity. Yes, you could make an excuse that she's upfront with Ben. But people can hear, they're in public. On the contrast, Evie acts so supportive of Mal and Ben, but practically yanks Mal away from Ben after the reporters scene, later gives him a flirty smile and hello to the point where even Mal glares at Evie and this is her best friend. And the moment Mal is out of the picture, Evie is so touchy with Ben.

Lack of empathy: She struggles to truly understand or care about others’ feelings, unless it affects how she’s perceived.

Evie had no care on Mal's feelings in Descendants 2 - and going away from Mal for a bit. By the time of Descendants 2, Evie has been in Auradon for six months. She's forgotten the Isle, she doesn't even want to go back there for Mal. But the moment Dizzy butters her up and is sweet to her, she's like I can be a hero in this little girl's eyes and immediately starts worrying about the Isle kids out of nowhere and it becomes her plot point more than Uma's. Uma doesn't mind being the bad guy if it means saving these kids. Evie wants to look good.

I realise as I'm writing this I see a lot of these things in other characters too but not Ben and Audrey.

Yeah, I know Ben did follow a cycle of love bombing, devaluation and then hoovering in Descendants 2 but I don't know if it was something intentional from his end because he doesn't feel like a narcissist but yeah that was written dangerous.

Audrey is jealous and entitled but she does not lack empathy. You could argue she's obsessed with image sometimes but at most, she meets that one and she's really upfront about her feelings. You're never guessing when it comes to Audrey and this girl was meant to be the evillest of them all.

Chad could also potentially have NPD but he's written as such a comic relief that I think he's just meant to be an obsessive moron.

[rickybowen]

like mother, like daughter.  descendants 3 // sleeping beauty

[askauradonprep]

See, look at that top row and tell me the sceptre wasn’t screwing with her head.

You can’t. It totally was.

[guardiandua91]

I did love that she took full accountability though.

[fantasyloverforever]

Something I made on/with Picsart.

[guardiandua91]

This! Omg this!!! Thank you so much for bringing this up.

[descenderintofantasy]

Can we talk about the fact that Ben RESPECTS Mal's rejection?

Okay yes it was pretty obvious that Mal was being playful, plus Ben doesn't really have time to pout or say anything. What's more is it's BEN OF COURSE he would!

But STILL the fact that they have a show of non consent/rejection being respected. TWICE in fact. Because he also backs off during Did I Mention is a REALLY good thing for young kids to see, in my eyes.

[kitkat404]

This is also my main argument when people try to demonize Mal for the love potion. Not ONCE while she thought Ben was under that spell did Mal try to take advantage of his affection. In fact she actively avoided it.

Let’s give Ben some agency here—that spell lasted all of 24 hours before he swam in the enchanted lake and it washed off. But did he say anything? NO. He had every opportunity to report her, as would have been his right given she did briefly steal his autonomy, and yet he actively CHOSE to not only not tell her he knew about the spell, but remained in a relationship with her in spite of it. Because, and this is what people hate to admit, HE. LIKED. HER.

Did he draw the wrong conclusions about why she put him under the spell? Yes. But I would argue that if consent is the thing people are so up in arms about, Ben’s assumption is worse. Mal used the spell so she could be his girlfriend and stand closer to the wand at the coronation—she had no intention of pursuing an actual relationship with him, especially not a physical one. BEN assumed that Mal liked him and used the spell to get him to break up with Audrey so they could be together.

The fact is, Ben was interested in Mal from the moment they met. He trails off mid speech when he shakes her hand, when he’s handing the VKs off to Doug and he says “I’ll see you later, and if you need anything…” he is looking DIRECTLY at Mal. He comes up to her at her locker to see how she’s doing, notably not asking about Evie who was just with her. He offers to sign her up for art class when he sees she has vandalized school property instead of idk telling her that’s against the rules??? And later shows up at HER DORM to check if they need anything, and proceeds to only speak to Mal even after he realizes all four of the VKs are there. He repeatedly went out of his way to cross paths with this girl because HE WAS INTERESTED IN HER. Before the love spell ever even entered the equation his eyes would find her whenever she was nearby and follow her when she left.

And yes obviously emotional cheating is bad but it’s also pretty clear from how stiff he is around her that Ben wanted out of his relationship with Audrey. He barely looks at her when they’re together. If you watch the conversation they have right before Mal gives Ben the cookie, it almost sounds like he was trying to break up with Audrey. His tone gets all serious right before she cuts him off, and he seems frustrated when she leaves. I firmly believe that had Mal not given him the love spell when she did, it was only a matter of time before Ben would have ended things with Audrey on his own, he was just too polite to be harsh about it.

He should have broken up with Audrey as soon as he became interested in Mal and decided not to ignore those feelings, that I will agree on. He was rather disconnected from her and sometimes dismissive. But Audrey also was not a saint. She insulted his parents to his face and was outwardly unsupportive of his goal, and is also shown to talk over him and dismiss him, and that’s just what we can see in the brief glimpses we were given of their relationship.

Audrey wasn’t a good girlfriend to Ben, but Ben was also not a great boyfriend to Audrey. They weren’t a good match. And especially after we see more of Audrey’s relationship with Leah in D3, it becomes very clear that Audrey was mostly clinging to their relationship simply because she had been pushed to reach for higher titles. Neither of them were actually invested in the relationship at least by then time we see them in D1 if not earlier, and Ben developing feelings for Mal strained that even more.

TLDR; Ben chose to stay in what was clearly not a happy relationship until the girl he was actively crushing on gave him a love spell that pushed him to end that relationship and get with her instead. Mal did it to get closer to the wand, not because she wanted to actually be with him, and avoided taking advantage of any attempts at physical affection on Ben’s part. After the spell washed off, instead of confronting her about it, Ben chooses to continue dating her because he already had an interest in her before the spell and thinks she likes him too. And then Mal catches feelings, drama happens, and she decides to remove the spell only to find out that he actually liked her the whole time, so they start dating for real.

Don’t try to rescue Ben, he’s exactly where he wants to be.

[guardiandua91]

I mean I do feel you still shouldn’t defend the love spell, it’s still kind of messed up but despite being a Ben x Audrey shipper I do see most of your points well except the insulting his parents one because she was kind of right anyway. Her parents’ story is different to Belle and Beast. I like Mal, I do but using magic on Ben is kind of bad. I’m more forgiving for the love spell now because D1 she’s learning to leave her toxic upbringing behind. But the thing in D2, she tries to erase his memories which bothers me a bit more to be honest.

That said Ben did like being with Audrey too, they were drifting apart due to the VK program. Otherwise this be canon:

Yeah it was in Queen of Mean.

[plantsandpies]

I guess I’m in a posting mood where I post crack posts, theories and takes. I have way more. But I’m talking about descendants right now.

I hate people that hate on mal. NOW, she did do a lot of fucked up stuff. Drugging someone and attempting to erase their memories is wrong. I’m not denying that nor am I excusing her actions.

However, Auradon doesn’t know how to handle mental health. All their people are happy and well adjusted. As far as we know, they all had good parents and happy childhoods.

The isle (at least in the books) had vicious child abuse. Carlos was locked in a room filled with bear traps and had to get furs. Evie obviously grew up with huge insecurities due to her mom’s thing on looks. I think Jay slept on the floor (though out of all of them I think he had the best parent. Not an award because you’re the best of the worst, but whatever). Mal’s mom was constantly manipulating her and controlling her. She created this narrative for mal. Love is evil and weak, people not inviting you is slighting you, you have to be the strongest on the isle, your mother’s daughter. The books went into more detail and it’s been a while since I read the book, so excuse my mis-remembering.

But the isle was not a fun place and aurdon is so, they don’t deal with mental health issues. So none of the vk kids have dealt with that.

So when we start at d2 it’s been six months and they just threw mal into that position. They gave her no time to adjust, put all their stuff on her (blonde hair vs. purple) and just expected her to be okay with it.

Now, a child with a parent that forces them to try and be the best and puts all their worth on impressing people for love (aka mal and her mom’s whole situation) is going to carry that even when realizing their mom sucks. So they put mal into a huge amount of responsibility maybe six months later without any sort of therapy or support system, because the isle kids are messed up and the aurodan kids aren’t so they don’t know how to help. So magic becomes her sort of safety net.

Her friends and Ben obviously love her. That’s true, but from what we’re shown in the beginning of the movie, they aren’t helping with the pressure. Evie is trying to have her give up magic and Ben is giving her gifts and helping the paparazzi but none of them are actually getting to the root cause. No one is helping lift the pressure she’s putting on herself. No one seems to even notice that that’s the problem.

Mal is trying so hard to be perfect and what everyone wants her to be, so she’s using spells to help her. She wants them to know she’s trying and she wants to love her. She might know they do, but it’s unconscious at this point. She was sixteen in the first movie. So she’s like seventeen. This is something in her mind, ingrained for sixteen years. They gave her less than six months to undo that herself.

Obviously her actions are not justified or right, but saying she’s evil and awful when what happened was a very traumatized teenager who was shoved into responsibility she wasn’t ready for, snapped, is also wrong. She’s not right, but her snapping was inevitable. This entire thing could’ve been solved had her friends and loved ones talked things out with her. If they could see the stress before it boiled over. Maybe it was because of it being a movie but her stress wasn’t really hidden. Maybe from Ben, but from Evie? This could’ve been solved had they intervened or had aurodan grew a brain and realized villain kids aren’t evil but they sure are messed up.

[sparklingichigo]

List of character (gender neutral) that has the same vibe (just some if you have more please add some in the comments)

1. Zen - mystic messenger

2. Asmodeus - Obey me

3. Veronica Park - the secret life of my secretary

5. Cheon Song Yi - My love from the star

6. So Yi Jeong - Boys over flower

7. Jinguji Ren - Uta no prince sama

8. Laito Sakimaki - Diabolik Lovers

9. Stella - Winx Club

10. Evie Grimhilde - Descendants franchise

11. Sharpay Evans - High school musical

12. Regina George - Mean girls

13. Cher - Clueless

So why are they here?

Reason number 1 why they got the same vibe : Flirty lil shts-

Reason number 2 : Divalicious fabulous beings with 1000% sass

Reason number 3 : ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) we all know why

Reason number four : Their self love and ✨ confidence ✨

Reason number five : ✨ fashion ✨

[guardiandua91]

Omg ok Sharpay and Evie having the same vibe is perfect @descenderintofantasy look!

[descenderintofantasy]

Omgs your right! Their both 'I want I want' and 'how can this benefit me?'

[guardiandua91]

Oh and Regina George too! I can see so many parallels now that it's been pointed out.

[descenderintofantasy]

If UMA or evie or even Audrey had been the main female lead of descendants instead of Mal. Do you think THEY would be as unforgiven and dragged over the coals the way Mal is by the fandom?

(If EVIE had love spelled Ben in D1. Or had been using magic to help herself be perfect for Ben in D2. If she had made the decision to close the barrier in D3 If Audrey had done them. if UMA made all the decisions that Mal did...would THEY be as unforgiven for those decisions as Mal is?)

[akinginblue]

... YES of course they would. hell Audrey and Uma would get more hate. Mal as a character is always painted in the best light and have actively protection from both the movies and the fandom. Do you really think the loud and proud revolutionary, the classic mean girl, and the girl who defining characteristic is that she smart, manipulative, and pretty, would get less hate? Hell the fandom activate still tread uma and Audrey like shit. And that is not even going into the whole racial part of this discussion.

[guardiandua91]

Where? I can see hate for Audrey but where is the Uma hate? I have not seen one person hate her honestly.

[aceyjujube]

Audrey in D3: I never thought of myself as mean

Audrey in D1: lmao lemme make fun of you the poor disefranchised Isle kids and tell Evie she's nothing for no reason.

[descenderintofantasy]

I mean to be utterly FAIR to Audrey at that moment evie was OUTRIGHT FLIRTING with her boyfriend. Was what she said HARSH? Absolutely. But I think evie needed a jolt that that Prince was taken.

[guardiandua91]

See this is why I like you. Even before we met you were fair to our errr can we call her awake beauty?

[sparklingichigo]

List of character (gender neutral) that has the same vibe (just some if you have more please add some in the comments)

1. Zen - mystic messenger

2. Asmodeus - Obey me

3. Veronica Park - the secret life of my secretary

5. Cheon Song Yi - My love from the star

6. So Yi Jeong - Boys over flower

7. Jinguji Ren - Uta no prince sama

8. Laito Sakimaki - Diabolik Lovers

9. Stella - Winx Club

10. Evie Grimhilde - Descendants franchise

11. Sharpay Evans - High school musical

12. Regina George - Mean girls

13. Cher - Clueless

So why are they here?

Reason number 1 why they got the same vibe : Flirty lil shts-

Reason number 2 : Divalicious fabulous beings with 1000% sass

Reason number 3 : ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) we all know why

Reason number four : Their self love and ✨ confidence ✨

Reason number five : ✨ fashion ✨

[guardiandua91]

Omg ok Sharpay and Evie having the same vibe is perfect @descenderintofantasy look!

[ginnyrules27]

Okay....everyone knows I'm not exactly the biggest Audrey fan. I have my reasons, the biggest being she reminds me of the girls who wrapped me in a gym mat, tied it up with a jump rope and tried to shove me behind a door before getting caught by the gym teacher and only having to half heartedly apologize as punishment when I was in middle school. However... ya'll couldn't have given the girl some socks? Slippers? A blanket to cover her feet?

Please don't tell me her punishment for the coup was cold feet while they waited for Hades to come revive her!

[guardiandua91]

I never noticed this…

[here-i-am-again-god]

the creepiness of unaddressed love spells is the dead carcass this fandom is gonna be circling until this website's servers close down BUT imma pick at it a little more anyway just to say--I think criticism of the writing should focus on the lack of autonomy of Ben and not Mal v. Uma and who wore it (the guilt of a love spell) worse.

to be clear, the movies don't address the fact that either girl spelled him and how fckin weird that could turn, and super quickly. I don't think the movie blames Mal or Uma tbh. Mal gets off with little more than a laugh from Ben in the carriage and one quip from Audrey, and Uma's crime is centered around her bid for the wand, not her spelling of Ben. In fact, p sure they never mention it again.

the irony is at the time of the spells, neither girl was really in it to control Ben romantically / long term? they both just needed a date to a big event so they could have wand proximity. then in the third movie we get a villain who does feel a desire to control Ben romantically and long term, and when extortion doesn't work, she curses him to turn into something where he'd lose control of his body / faculties in a different way???? something that will also remain unaddressed in the conclusion of this film?????

weird weird stuff afoot sorry. weirddddddd weird stuff.

[guardiandua91]

I feel Audrey love spelling Ben would have made more sense. Though in her diary, she mentions she wants Ben to hurt…Audrey is scary in her diary

[here-i-am-again-god]

forever disappointed by the weird eleventh hour reveal that Audrey's rampage was the result of some enchantment from the staff when keeping her a villain would have better served the narrative

first of all, girl is singing this long before she gets anywhere near that staff

I always thought that I'd be the queen and there's no in between if I can't have that then I will be the leader of the dark and the bad

she's making a choice here (and I like that). then she had a 3 mile walk across town carrying an iron poker to commit a b&e at the museum before she sees the scepter

it feels like a missed opportunity to emphasize that it's our choices that make us heroes or villains rather than where we come from (which was the whole point of the trilogy, was it not?). we've already seen villain children make good choices and prove they're not like their parents. let's see a hero child prove the same in reverse via their bad choices. but instead we get a weak ass three line apology that seemed to mean she wasn't a real villain after all. her hero parentage overshadowed her villainous choices for how we're meant to see her. ya hate to see it :/

[guardiandua91]

So you want the girl who’s been abused her whole life to stay a villain when her boyfriend was stolen due to Mal’s love spell and she had no support from anyone. Victim blaming much?

[here-i-am-again-god]

abused her whole life? what? we see Leah say one (1) mean thing to her at the proposal, to which Audrey responds with something snappy. when Maleficent is cruel, Mal is more likely to have a fear response ("I'll do better. I promise" or "I won't let you down" vs. Audrey's irritated "Don't you think I feel bad enough, grammy?") Mal actually tells Evie that she's afraid of her mom and that she gets "so angry with me". We never see any indication that Audrey is afraid of her grandma, her parents, her friends, etc. at any point.

Not to mention Maleficent magically bends Mal to her will when she doesn't get her way with the glowy-eye trick, so Mal's autonomy has been taken away literally on the regular, her entire life. do I think Audrey's parents were without fault, esp with the high expectations they put on her? definitely not. but abusive, esp compared to Mal, is a stretch tbh.

as for the boyfriend stealing, it's a question of magnitude of wrongs here. like yeah. that sucked for sure. but not "kill a whole bunch of people" bad. to be clear, someone can break up with someone else for any reason, at any time. we might consider them a dick for how they've done it, but we're allowed to expect the injured party not to go on a violent magical rampage. if Audrey needs "support" to not kill a bunch of people, then....idk man, sounds like a villain to me.

also reiterating my point with the og post--the moral of the trilogy is that regardless of our pasts, we have the chance to rise above the things our parents did to us or how they raised us and make better, kinder choices that shape our lives. The core 4 (and Uma's crew, to some extent) prove their willingness to do that. Audrey, when faced with a similar choice, chooses to hurt people. I think she's an important narrative foil to show how when we make bad choices, those shape our life too (again, showing that there's no such thing as "born good" or "born bad" and that a heroes kid can be the real villain and a villain's kid can be the hero).

but alas. dcoms.

[guardiandua91]

You don't have to like Audrey - but she was told at age six that her grandmother was proud of her - not everyone responds to abuse the same way. People can mirror their abuser - Audrey is an abuse victim. If you want a foil to Mal or an AK choosing evil, Audrey is not the right choice. I am a Mal defender. I am a Ben defender. But emotional abuse is still abuse. Audrey standing up to Leah does not make it less abusive of her. You can like Mal more. I don't really care. That comes down to preference. But Audrey replying "don't you think I feel bad enough already?" means she's so conditioned to believe Leah's crap because it's what she's been taught. She's not even defending herself even though Mal love spelling Ben was genuinely not her fault. But she takes the blame albeit a bit defensively like I already feel bad enough please show me some mercy. The above excerpts are from Audrey's Diary, a diary which is referenced in the canon. And Uma? You're really going to use Uma as an example? And Evie? Are you honestly for real right now? Uma kidnapped and tried to murder the King, then love spelled him and tried to harm Auradon. And she never apologised for this - in fact she was only helping to gain an ulterior motive. But her or Harry never apologise. Evie was borderline toxic to Mal throughout the movies especially Descendants 2 and Descendants 3 and shamelessly flirted with Ben in front of both Audrey and later Mal. Evie was ok for Ben to remain under the love spell - and her initial interest was to find a prince too so why the heck is she sympathised when my Audrey is torn to shreds by you people? I get it - Audrey's writing sucks. But even with her sucky writing, she apologises, she expresses remorse.

Did Audrey go too far with her revenge spree? Yes but making Audrey a permanent villain is rewarding Leah for her abuse. Audrey's entire identity is tied to Ben, to being his Queen and she doesn't even lose Ben fairly. He is quite literally stolen from her via a magical cookie. I don't defend Audrey's actions in Descendants 3 but if she can't be forgiven then I refuse to forgive Uma too. I don't care how sympathetic her reasons. If Audrey can't be forgiven then neither can Uma, neither can Mal and neither can perfect princess Evie whose a borderline toxic bitch.

Oh and if you’re going to say Audrey’s diary is non canon, Queen of Mean is canon. And little Audrey looks like she’d rather be anywhere else than with Ben.

Also no Kate met William as an adult. That’s just people theorising based on a Netflix series.

[isleofdarkness]

Two questions.

Do you think that the whole Descendants fandom is pro Bal and pro Mal and anti Audrey?

Would you like Mal if she was wrong in her actions and confront to Ben about it?

Yes, very much. I can get shipping Bal- I ship Bal- just not the canon version. But most people ship the canon version and it's kinda creepy because, you know, she drugged him. Mal was not a good protagonist but the fandom acts like she's never done anything wrong in her entire life. Audrey was a bit of a mean girl, sure, but we've all seen my rants. We all know how I feel about her. But the fandom hates her despite her being a lot more of a sympathetic character than Mal. I don't think it's the whole fandom, just enough of it that I have to stay out of the main tag

Here's the thing- I do like Mal. I think that, if canon had done it properly, she would be a very good character. I think that she would be extremely interesting if written properly- I mean, she would be a very good anti-hero. I just don't like her in canon, because her character wasn't handled properly and that made her very hard to like. I've seen a lot of fanons that handled her properly, and I choose to think of those as canon. However, in canon, I don't like her. If she were, in canon, to feel genuine remorse for her actions, to apologize, to have legitimate reasons, and to actively try to help people instead of shooting her allies in the foot, yes, I would like her in canon. But we all know that's never going to happen, so I take solace in my fanon versions of Mal.

[guardiandua91]

Ok but Mal did show genuine remorse for her actions. She made Ben an anti love potion, she gave up her spellbook, she apologised to Audrey. Bal is complicated though because Ben is written badly. Even before the love spell his writing is really bad.

[guardiandua91]

Queen Leah literally groomed Audrey to be Ben's wife at age six (Descendants)

Ok, so I felt this even before I read Audrey's diary based on how the writers read out Queen of Mean table read and how there's a picture of Ben and Audrey at age five in Audrey's room, with little toy crowns but Leah groomed a little girl to be another boy's wife at age five or six.

Telling a little girl you're proud of her for setting herself up to be the future Queen. That is so damaging to a child's brain. I see a lot of people saying Audrey should have remained the villain because it'd bring the message back full circle that AKs can choose evil. Ok, then make Chad choose evil and have him be irredeemable, he's the actual spoilt one. Dating 11 girls, having the perfect family and a good life emotionally too. And it'd show the downside of spoiling your child too.

But I feel like telling a five year old that she's doing well by lining herself up for the throne and for Ben is a form of sexual objectification. You're making her see a certain guy as her partner before she even understands what romance let alone sex and marriage mean. She's just happy to be with her best friend. Thinking about it, it may have been that even when I hated Audrey and saw her as a sexual predator for Ben or being toxic towards him, in the back of my mind, it was because Leah had groomed her but at the time I didn't know from when. Granted, that was also misinformation my part because children who are sexually objectified aren't at risk of becoming offenders.

A lot of people blame Ben and Mal for Audrey's crash but they only slammed the last nail in an already built coffin. I'm not saying Ben and Mal are saints. But all 3 characters are abuse survivors (yes even Ben because if Leah groomed Audrey, Beast and Belle emotionally neglected Ben or at least were very hot and cold). In fact, I would argue Mal turned out better because of Ben yes but also because she had a support system in Evie, Jay and Carlos which is more than Ben and Audrey had. They had each other and it helped them survive for awhile but they worsened each other's defense mechanisms I believe.

But my point is Leah objectified Audrey reducing her to her body and what she could be to Ben rather than loving her unconditionally.

[descenderintofantasy]

Can we talk about the fact that Ben RESPECTS Mal's rejection?

Okay yes it was pretty obvious that Mal was being playful, plus Ben doesn't really have time to pout or say anything. What's more is it's BEN OF COURSE he would!

But STILL the fact that they have a show of non consent/rejection being respected. TWICE in fact. Because he also backs off during Did I Mention is a REALLY good thing for young kids to see, in my eyes.

[kitkat404]

This is also my main argument when people try to demonize Mal for the love potion. Not ONCE while she thought Ben was under that spell did Mal try to take advantage of his affection. In fact she actively avoided it.

Let’s give Ben some agency here—that spell lasted all of 24 hours before he swam in the enchanted lake and it washed off. But did he say anything? NO. He had every opportunity to report her, as would have been his right given she did briefly steal his autonomy, and yet he actively CHOSE to not only not tell her he knew about the spell, but remained in a relationship with her in spite of it. Because, and this is what people hate to admit, HE. LIKED. HER.

Did he draw the wrong conclusions about why she put him under the spell? Yes. But I would argue that if consent is the thing people are so up in arms about, Ben’s assumption is worse. Mal used the spell so she could be his girlfriend and stand closer to the wand at the coronation—she had no intention of pursuing an actual relationship with him, especially not a physical one. BEN assumed that Mal liked him and used the spell to get him to break up with Audrey so they could be together.

The fact is, Ben was interested in Mal from the moment they met. He trails off mid speech when he shakes her hand, when he’s handing the VKs off to Doug and he says “I’ll see you later, and if you need anything…” he is looking DIRECTLY at Mal. He comes up to her at her locker to see how she’s doing, notably not asking about Evie who was just with her. He offers to sign her up for art class when he sees she has vandalized school property instead of idk telling her that’s against the rules??? And later shows up at HER DORM to check if they need anything, and proceeds to only speak to Mal even after he realizes all four of the VKs are there. He repeatedly went out of his way to cross paths with this girl because HE WAS INTERESTED IN HER. Before the love spell ever even entered the equation his eyes would find her whenever she was nearby and follow her when she left.

And yes obviously emotional cheating is bad but it’s also pretty clear from how stiff he is around her that Ben wanted out of his relationship with Audrey. He barely looks at her when they’re together. If you watch the conversation they have right before Mal gives Ben the cookie, it almost sounds like he was trying to break up with Audrey. His tone gets all serious right before she cuts him off, and he seems frustrated when she leaves. I firmly believe that had Mal not given him the love spell when she did, it was only a matter of time before Ben would have ended things with Audrey on his own, he was just too polite to be harsh about it.

He should have broken up with Audrey as soon as he became interested in Mal and decided not to ignore those feelings, that I will agree on. He was rather disconnected from her and sometimes dismissive. But Audrey also was not a saint. She insulted his parents to his face and was outwardly unsupportive of his goal, and is also shown to talk over him and dismiss him, and that’s just what we can see in the brief glimpses we were given of their relationship.

Audrey wasn’t a good girlfriend to Ben, but Ben was also not a great boyfriend to Audrey. They weren’t a good match. And especially after we see more of Audrey’s relationship with Leah in D3, it becomes very clear that Audrey was mostly clinging to their relationship simply because she had been pushed to reach for higher titles. Neither of them were actually invested in the relationship at least by then time we see them in D1 if not earlier, and Ben developing feelings for Mal strained that even more.

TLDR; Ben chose to stay in what was clearly not a happy relationship until the girl he was actively crushing on gave him a love spell that pushed him to end that relationship and get with her instead. Mal did it to get closer to the wand, not because she wanted to actually be with him, and avoided taking advantage of any attempts at physical affection on Ben’s part. After the spell washed off, instead of confronting her about it, Ben chooses to continue dating her because he already had an interest in her before the spell and thinks she likes him too. And then Mal catches feelings, drama happens, and she decides to remove the spell only to find out that he actually liked her the whole time, so they start dating for real.

Don’t try to rescue Ben, he’s exactly where he wants to be.

[descenderintofantasy]

If we want to be honest UMA is FAR more touchy with Ben while under the love spell then Mal was. Which honestly makes her love spell far more toxic in my eyes.

[guardiandua91]

Also Ben choosing a toxic girl (I'm sorry Mal and Audrey are both toxic for him) doesn't mean he chose right. It just means like many people in real life, he chose the toxic girl.

[blade-liger-4ever]

Yep

[guardiandua91]

I have met so many couples in real life who are reminiscent of Ben/Mal and to some degree Ben/Audrey as well (separate couples).