Very interesting when Antis call Neil beating Billy unconscious, âa fight,â and then calling it Billy âyellingâ at her when Billy tells Max âto stay away from himâ after heâs been beaten in front of her - especially when Max expressing concern for Billy in front of Neil resulted in Neil beating him harder.
Very very interesting how Billyâs refusal of Maxâs help is considered ârude.â Almost like you think abuse survivors have to be nice in order to deserve support, huh? Almost like you would allow someone to continue to be abused because they werenât nice to you while they were suffering and in pain? I hope you never work with abuse survivors in any capacity. Ever.
Reading that scene thinking Billy was being ârudeâ for refusing help from a child who couldnât actually help him⊠Christ, your priorities suck.
if you're bipoc and stan billy hargrove you deserve racism đ€·đ»ââïž
Interesting how you think racism is acceptable under certain circumstances - that people you think are "bad" deserve it. You cannot ever claim to be anti racist with this attitude. đ
Wait, I got so used to the headcanon that Billy's younger then Steve, while canon-wise, he's actually one month older ?? (Billy's Bday March 29, 1967, Steve's Bday April 29, 1967) Billy was already 1 month old when Steve was born đ
So I guess when Harrington is looking down on Billy: You're one inch shorter, man
Hargrove has the full right to say: But I'm one month older than you, baby
Abuse in 'Runaway Max': A Stranger Things criticism
One thing I know to keep in mind is that the book is told from Maxâs perspective, so it's her eyes we experience the world from, and her opinions that guide us through the story. For that we have to value her as a somewhat unreliable narrator, considering she is thirteen at the time and dosnt understand certain things.
A quick timeline to keep in mind because the book handles time very messily:
Billy has just turned 17 by the time Max and Billy first meet.
After Halloween in season 2, Max says sheâs known Billy for 7 months, which takes us back to early May.
They move in together three weeks after the wedding in late June, meaning Max and Billy have lived together for a total of 5 months by the time they get to Hawkins.
Neil confiscates Billy's car keys for two months in June, so Iâve taken an educated guess that Max first witnesses Neil's abuse somewhere around august, then in September/October Billy breaks Maxâs friends arm, leaving for Hawkins late October.
Now onto the deep dive:
In 'Runaway Max', we learn about the terrible Hargrove family dynamic, and how the Mayfield's learn to navigate that. Max gets a very graphic front row seat of Billy's abuse in chapter 10, and during that chapter Max responds to that situation as any 13 year old would, scared and confused. Despite this however, Billy's image doesn't change in Maxâs mind. She has no visible compassion for Billy at any point of the book except from this chapter, and after that she states that sheâs actively trying not to care about âhis stupid life and his cruel dadâ.Â
From a writing standpoint, choosing this to be a part of Maxâs character takes away from her complex experiences in an abusive household. Yes Max is a hardened character, but not exploring these difficult topics of disliking Billy while also feeling sorry for him makes her feel like just another pawn for the audience to make them dislike Billy. The writers could have made the step-siblings dynamic much more interesting to have them navigate this terrifying experience together. But I understand the duffers just wanted another one dimensional antagonist for season 2.
"I'd watched the Hargroves in action. Neil standing over billy with the belt - calling me a stupid little girl - making it clear that he thought I was weak and pointless. Knowing Neil believed that still wasnt as bad as the way Billy had hated me for trying to help him"
I have mixed feelings about this. I feel this description Max gives dutiful to anyone going through that situation, that they would feel disheartened by someone rejecting their help, and verbally berating them for it. However, itâs vitally important to understand the context of Why Billy reacts to Max this way.
During the assault on Billy that Max witnesses, Max calls out and interrupts Neil, trying to diffuse the situation. Neil responds not to Max, but to Billy âIs this the son I raised? A worthless loser who needs a little girl to fight his battles for him?â And then strikes billy again.Â
Max assumes this to be an attack on her, however that's not what's happening at all. Neil is using Max against Billy. He takes Maxâs intervention as a sign of Billy's own weakness, a softness. âAny hint of softness and he would never let me forgetâ In a way Billy had been trying to teach Max to harden herself so that Neil couldn't find anything to target her for, Billy had been making her more likeable for Neil. And now this softness that Max is showing for Billy, by standing up for him, is getting him punished. Itâs been implied before that this was the case, but now we are seeing it explicitly that Billy is being punished for Maxâs actions. This chain reaction forces Billy into a position where he cannot be on Maxes side, he cannot be friends with Max, because siding with anyone other than his father equals punishment.
After Neil leaves, we circle back round to the sentence âSometimes Billy acted like we were in on some big, crucial secret together / like we were in some sort of secret club together - like we could be on the same teamâ Billy had been trying to tell her from the beginning, they were both members of a club trying to navigate life with Neil Hargrove, bonded by shared experience. They were supposed to be on the same team too, victims of Neil, but Neil has made that impossible by using Max against Billy. âI could see all the ways he hated meâ Neil isolates one from the other, Billy resents Max for getting him hurt, and Max resents Billy for rejecting her.
During most of the sections of the book that happen in Hawkins, Max continues to call Billy a âMonsterâ. However, never Neil. Itâs not untrue that Billy has a mean streak, he can be cruel and heartless, most notably when he breaks the arm of one of Maxâs friends. The only time this level of violence is seen in Hawkins is during the fight with Steve.
Both of these big outbursts of rage are built up by attacks from Neil. Note: Billy is still an asshole, these are not excuses for his actions only explanations.
Yes, there are two occasions in which Billy grabs hold of Maxâs arm, but there is an argument to be made that this is just normal sibling behaviour. Have you never pushed or shoved your sibling before, or been on the receiving end of that physicality. Itâs not always pleasant, but itâs not uncommon for siblings to get physical during disagreements. Max is also only distressed by this on the first occasion, âHe caught me by the arm, and it wasn't the first time heâs ever touched me, but other times had always been to push me out of the way in the kitchen or flick me on the end of my nose. This time, his fingers closed hard around my elbowâ - however the second and last time goes like this âHe reached out fast and caught me by the wristâ. Those are the only times Billy is ever physical with Max.
Despite this, Billy is still the monster. âBilly was the closest thing to one that I had ever known - this was what it meant to live with the monster.â Monster singular. Billy is the most terrible thing living in the Hargrove home, not the man who beats his son.
Personally I find something off putting with Max ranking Billy as a worse monster than Neil. During the night at the byers she says "I understood now that Neil was in his head, and that meant he was just as dangerous as his father. Worse because Neil was cruel and frightening but he cared how things looked on the outside. Billy was crazy" Max isn't stupid, she knows Neil is a bad person, and maybe from Maxes point of view Billy is worse than Neil because Neil hasn't ever physically hurt her. But from a writer's point of view, to say that the victim is worse than the abuser? That is both dangerous and honestly disgusting. To call Billy crazy, and insinuate that heâs acting like a âbad victimâ because he doesn't pretend that everything is normal is so hurtful to victims of abuse who see themselves in Billy.Â
Continuing this thought, Max then goes on to compare Billy to a recently possessed Will. Which, first off, comparing abuse is never okay. But what Max says is almost worse, "Will had turned into something terrible and frightening, but even with the mind flayer working through him, he was trying not to let it. He'd almost gotten us killed, but you couldn't blame him because he didn't ask for this. He was trying so hard to stop it" Is the author trying to say that Billy should try harder to not let the abuse he has been experiencing at the hands of his father since before he was ten, affect him? Because if Brenna Yovanoff is using Will as a âgoodâ example of a victim of parental abuse, and using him to discount Billy's own experiences, then Iâm sorry but who let this book go to print?
Obviously as a character Max choosing this comparison means very little to her because she doesn't know about Lonnie, but the writers do. Comparing Billy to will is a choice.
Billy and will have both experienced physical abuse from their fathers. Will is on one side of the spectrum of victims, quiet, timid and apologetic. Billy is on the opposite end of that spectrum, his experiences have hardened him, made him angry about what's happening to him. Billy isn't quiet, heâs an asshole and he has issues with authority, but the one thing that sets Billy and Will apart is the fact that Billy is still experiencing that abuse.
Will is a survivor, Billy isn't.
To imply that "you can't blame Will because he didn't ask for it", but itâs okay to blame Billy, does that mean we are supposed to think Billy is asking for it?
There are choices writers make in the information they reveal to their readers, the phrasing that is used and the comparisons they make. It speaks volumes that while Will is praised for his experiences and bravery with his dad, Billy is called a monster for acting out because of those same experiences.
I mean, tell me you're a writer who doesn't understand the complex reactions to abuse without telling me you only care about âgoodâ reactions to abuse.
There are some scenes where Billy looks⊠painfully young, and it just hits you how much heâs been suffering and how no one protected him. Billy arriving on his first day of school, anxious and disoriented. Billy crying, pinned by Neil. Billy cowering in the shower. Billy sobbing above Eleven. Billy staring up at the Mindflayer like a young animal abandoned by their parents. Having not known their comforts or their love, but longing for them anyway in the moment theyâre cornered by a predator. Being made easy prey because no one is going to chase the predators away. Feeling made to be abandoned. Feeling made to die. You see him and you just want to hold him. You want to tell him itâs okay. You want to will any adult in the narrative to notice his suffering. To love him. To protect him. It makes me so unwell.
Having Nancy only be nice to Robin after she's been reasured she's not dating Steve sure was a choice. What if they had gone with the original plot for Steve and Robin to be a couple? Would Nancy have just been a bitch to her the whole season? Would Steve still have been eyeing up his ex but this time while dating someone else? Did they just revert back to the love triangle because Robin became a lesbian? Seriously what a shitshow
Billy has way more experience being parentified than Steve as well, but no one wants to acknowledge that eitherâŠLike, yeah, Steve should not have to be the de facto âadultâ / guardian in these scary, supernatural situations. However, what Billy experienced was pretty realistic and unfortunately common. He lost his mom, and heâs expected to not only take care of himself while being abused and neglected but he is expected take care of his new step sister a few years later. His resentment towards her isnât her fault, no, but itâs also not random. He is punished by being parentified and he is punished further for failure, so when it matters most Billy does technically know how to âcareâ for a child. He just doesnât want to. No one wants to acknowledge how parentification isnât just some funny circumstance a teenager could wind up in where they take on the role of dad and/or mom when the real parents leave or neglect their duties. Itâs traumatic. Billy needed a parent, too.
Not only is Billy being parentified, Max is being infantilized. Billy said it himself - sheâs thirteen years old, and doesnât need a full-time babysitter. And yet heâs expected to drive her home from school when thereâs presumably a perfectly good bus, and actively watch her every afternoon like sheâs six. Howâs that gotta feel? When Billy was Maxâs age, he was already expected to take on a parent role. He was beaten and humiliated by his father and (again, presumably) abandoned by his mother. Now not only does he have to sit and watch her get coddled, heâs expected to do it as well.
It also didnât escape my notice that Billy, for all his faults, treats Max like more of an adult than her own mother, who doesnât even call her by her preferred name.
Will never forget the time I joked about how if I ever saw cara at a con Iâd be like âso why do you think itâs appropriate for a married housewife to pursue a teenage boyâ and two Karen stans got so mad at me acting like I was really out here throwing red paint on the woman or like she hasnât vocally been in favor of that plotline herself likeâŠ. Going to a con and asking actors about canon plotlines is not weird sorry. Tell the writers to write better if you donât wanna be confronted by how awkward that shit is idk
Don't forget Cara was okay with Karen and Billy's storyline and think that's sexual and she was not uncomfortable about it at all. Her only concern was that "it's a family show" so they had to keep it pg-13.
Not only her but also Duffers and producers though it was a perfect story to tell. Reminder Billy was 17 when he first met and flirt with Karen. And he was 18 when she nearly go to a date with him and decided not to not because he's barely an adult but because "she has a perfect family".
The fandom will villify Billy for being an abused groomed teenager but still say Karen didn't do anything wrong because she "didn't go through with it" like that makes up for the fact that she memorized Billy's schedule. What the fuck. She was a bored middle aged housewife with a dead end life and a boring marriage not a fucking martyr. She knew what she was doing and the Duffers are fucked for pulling that shit. Dacre deserved better.
People headcanon a lot to justify why she felt the way she did towards Billy. It's common for people to think that she was groomed, too. The reality is that The Duffers thought it would be hot. That's why they did it.
There's no deeper meaning behind Karen's desire to fuck a teenage boy and while the impact this had on Billy isn't explicitly acknowledged for that reason, it still has horrifying implications. She's a predator. It is that simple.
People will say being abused is no excuse to be violent or abusive and then they will argue that they have a right to be violent or abusive towards fans of Billy and condemn this teenager to death because they were abused. We are hovering over the point here⊠yâall would Get It if you were more self aware. Youâre not like this because youâre right. Youâre like this because youâve been conditioned, like Billy, to think that this is normal.
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