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@helizi
Tuon & Seanchan- artist unknown
I think what bothers me about all the ace/aro Sun headcanons is that it’s based on a very narrow interpretation of her character. Sun rarely displays emotion, so it’s easy for those of us from more demonstrative cultures to write her off as not feeling them. But in fact Sun feels very strongly - it’s just that she can only express it physically, through action. I find Sun the most emotionally intense character, even moreso than Lito, and I wish fans would explore that more.
Sun: This is what life is. Fear, rage, desire... love. To stop feeling emotions, to stop wanting to feel them, is to feel death. Kala: What would you suggest I do? Sun: I take everything I'm feeling, everything that matters to me... I push all of it into my fist, and I fight for it.
This doesn’t mean she can’t be aro or ace, of course. But I don’t think it’s a coincidence that it’s the least emotionally demonstrative character who’s been pigeonholed this way.
I have no idea why people would think Nomi is lesbian: www(.)themarysue(.)com/why-sense8s-nomi-and-amanita-are-everything-to-me/, www(.)afterellen(.)com/tv/437287-sense8-star-jamie-clayton-talks-trans-representation-nomanita-lgbt-leads, sense8(.)wikia(.)com/wiki/Nomi_Marks. Idk maybe because everyone from the shows creator to the actor says she is? So yeah, it's corrective rape alright no matter how people try to explain it away and excuse their lesbophobia.
What? How is it corrective rape? Seriously? All of the characters involved in the scene enjoyed it. If she didn’t want to be involved in it, I’m sure the other sensates would have felt her vibe or whatever. Also, all the characters appear monosexual but they were all in the scene and kissing on each other.
But I still haven’t seen why you think Nomi is getting raped?
Nuance completely eludes some people. (Some of) the sensates shared/blurred during a sexual experience and this was depicted in the orgy scene. But it’s a metaphor, not something we’re meant to take literally. At no point did Nomi actually have sex with anyone other than Amanita.
Huh. Amanita really doesn’t like Bug. It’s not the first scene, it’s the second when he’s in the apartment - the look she gives him...
Alright real question What was Capheus’ sexuality? It’s just something that always confused me. Is he gay? Just a genuine question
We’ve never seen him in any kind of sexual situation so it’s impossible to say. But he did seem quite disturbed by the involuntary boner while watching Van Damme.
Then again I’m a weirdo who half-seriously ships Sun/Rajan, so don’t listen to me.
I’m not bashing or trying to rain on anyone’s ship but I think I would have preferred Will/Riley as a friendship. Meaningful f/m friendship is surprisingly rare, especially new-formed friendship rather than existing-established. When I was watching the last few episodes it was obvious that Riley and Will had formed a profound connection, but it never felt particularly sexual to me.
Wish-list for Sense8 Season 2
**Spoilerrific**
1. Of course, that there is one.
2. That the various characters keep their respective arcs in situ, dealing with the various problems in their lives, rather than find all their individual stories subsumed within the war against Whispers. Lito’s very public coming-out, Capheus’s ambivalent relationship to the Nairobi criminal underworld, Sun’s Shakespearean conflict with her brother, and Kala’s situation with the religious extremists involved in the assassination attempt on her maybe-future father-in-law are all far more interesting than yet another paranoia-conspiracy struggle against a shadowy international organization. More of that please, and less of the stuff that really could be interchangeable with the X-Files or any of a dozen dull-as-dishwater hour-long dramas on the major networks.
3. That the Sensates face shared threats other than Whispers. Even asides from what I say above about the balance between the individual arcs and the overarching story, there is a benefit to facing multiple threats rather than just exhausting the suspense of the one primary, ever-present villain. One of the keys to the way Orphan Black has maintained momentum over three seasons has been by focusing not just on the primary evil corporation but giving us a real rogues gallery of enemies (Neolutionists, Proletheans, and Project Castor) that have evolving relationships to our protagonists and to each other but at the same time all come out of the same basic science fiction concept of the show.
So, while obviously Whispers will be with us for a bit, I would love for us to see other threats. I would especially love for us to encounter other clusters. Think about how amazingly our guys and girls switched in and out of Will as they made their way through enemy HQ in episode 12. Now imagine the terrifying efficiency with which a cluster would operate if it had perhaps ten years’ experience on our heroes and heroines. And imagine that group against ours. Thrilling stuff.
4. That the basic mode of dealing with physical conflict (basically, keeping Will, Sun or Wolfie on speed-dial) gets seriously fucked with. While part of the fantasy fun of Sense8 is, yes, being able to dial-up your personal internal Jean-Claude or Arnold, beyond a certain point that should create its own really interesting conflicts and issues within the group.
I really wanted by the end of season one for there to be a moment when Sun had a moment on the order of “You know what? I’m on the toilet now, and do not particularly feel like saving you the fifth time today. If you want to learn martial arts I’ll be glad to teach you, but we’re not going to keep doing this indefinitely. Best of luck handling the guy with the machete. Over and out.”
Or, alternately, for the Sensate who gets called in to do something that really does not jibe with the ethics of the Sensate who placed the call. For example, imagine a hypothetical interaction between Nomi and Wolfgang: “Why did you think I would be okay with you using my body to kill all those people?” “I didn’t. But neither did I care.”
Essentially, I would love by the end of season two for Nomi, Kala, Lito or Capheus to have to fight their way out of a situation just as themselves, without help from the other Sensates, and for that to be a serious character moment for them.
5. That the connections get used in ways other than physical conflict. This would have been a much bigger deal for me had Kala suddenly not become so crucial in both saving Wolfgang from his uncle and getting Will and Riley out of harm’s way. Likewise, Wolfgang using Lito to tell a lie that Wolfgang literally, psychologically, could not himself tell, was one of the storytelling masterstrokes of the first season. I would love season two to have more deployments of the Sensates like that. For Sun to be called on for the negotiation skills she learned as an executive in Seoul. Or, for example, to reverse a familiar trope in season one, for Sun to call on Capheus to charm someone, and to win their friendship, in a way she probably cannot. The more creative the deployment of a fellow Sensate and the reason why they are needed, the better, basically.
6. That at some point serious rivalries emerge within the Sensates, but that they do not play out in any way as an expected consequence of their racial, sexual,or class identities. I loved when Will did not get the Conan reference and Wolfgang took that as being somehow explanatory of Will’s character in a clearly uncomplimentary way (the opaqueness of that moment, and what specifically set Wolfie off, whether it was Will-as-American, Will-as-policeman, Will-as-do-gooder, or all the above, was pure splendor, script-wise).
As they progress further into the fight against Whispers, let’s see differences of opinion arise as to how to proceed and who should decide. That needn’t dominate the story, and needn’t play out like Stark Trek: Next Generation-style bridge debates, but it could make for some fascinating character moments. Let’s see when, and under what circumstances, Kala ceases to be the group pacifist, what it takes for the group to understand that Capheus actually has a better sense of interpersonal strategy than Sun, and which one figures out first that calling in Wolfgang to deal with crushingly violent situations all the time actually verges on a kind of abuse.
7. Yes, I’ll say it. More psychic-domino cluster sex. Or even them figuring out ways to put the Sensate necktie on the door, so to speak, to keep other members of the cluster out. Think about it: Riley and Will are getting into it for the first time, aaaaannnd, without even consciously wanting to, Lito shows up. And then Kala. And then Sun. “We gotta get a system in place!!!!”
8. Last but not least, don’t forget the practical stuff. The worst weaknesses of Sense8 are the lapses in its realism about practical things. People in a hospital room do not argue over who is going on whose insurance like they argue over a restaurant check because health insurance does not work like that. When negotiating with a fence over stolen diamonds, you decide to turn and leave in a display of your impatience, you do not leave the diamonds in his possession. When on the run from a super-secret organization that literally wants your brain, you do not return to the apartment where it knows you live, even if the plot provides a convenient, if not quite believable, fig leaf explanation. And said super-secret organization, when it is in possession of your loved ones (like Amanita, or potentially Riley’s father) would probably be inclined to keep them for leverage rather than just letting them go with no evident purpose. Seriously, there should be zero tolerance for this sort of thing.
So this is a lot of “I want” “I want” “I want”, I know, but the fact that I am now so obsessed about the future of this TV show and where its stories go is, entirely, a measure of its success. I love Sense8. I want more. And I cannot wait to see what happens.
...tell me you write fic. I need ALL of this!
Headcanon: Lito agonizes about telling Hernando about the cluster, but when he finally does Hernando is completely, even weirdly, chill about it. Everything is fine for a while until they realize Hernando believes the ‘cluster’ to be a particularly intense set of muses/characters that Lito is drawing inspiration from. The day one of them turns up at the door is...memorable.
(spoilers follow)
the number eight, obviously
clusters of eight
all born august 8 (8/8)
i think riley’s husband and daughter died in 2008
8 turned sideways is the infinity symbol, which rolls into…
the cycle of birth/death
obviously this is a huge motif for the show
it’s never explicitly…
It’s obviously all interpretation but I thought some meanings were:
- Nomi: born through surgery (Michael was later reborn as Nomi)
- Kala born in the temple of Ganesha. It was also raining, water dripping down the curtains - possible connection to Wolfgang?
- Capheus was the only one of the eight to be born without a man present in some capacity. Foreshadowing for him growing up without a father?
- Wolfgang: water, purification and cleansing, hints at future redemption?
hmmmm that’s a good point about kala, i didn’t recognize it was the temple.
for nomi i think that one might do double-duty, i’m sure it was meant to at least partially reflect the disconnect with her mother. those are also pretty valid for capheus and wolfie too.
It’s possible but I kind of hope not. It implies that women who have c-sections are bad mothers, and I vehemently disagree with that.
(spoilers follow)
the number eight, obviously
clusters of eight
all born august 8 (8/8)
i think riley’s husband and daughter died in 2008
8 turned sideways is the infinity symbol, which rolls into…
the cycle of birth/death
obviously this is a huge motif for the show
it’s never explicitly...
It’s obviously all interpretation but I thought some meanings were:
- Nomi: born through surgery (Michael was later reborn as Nomi)
- Kala born in the temple of Ganesha. It was also raining, water dripping down the curtains - possible connection to Wolfgang?
- Capheus was the only one of the eight to be born without a man present in some capacity. Foreshadowing for him growing up without a father?
- Wolfgang: water, purification and cleansing, hints at future redemption?
Awwww
Van Damme is sooooo sweet! And the woman has her ring. <3 Am I allowed to think Sun’s mom is kinda awful? Like…emotionally abusive much?
I think Sun’s mother was a product of her culture and genuinely meant well, but yes that she did Sun a lot of harm.
Nomi gets rescued by Will. Riley gets rescued by Will. Sun stays in jail. What’s up with that? Writers painted him as the white knight but he can only save the white women??
Yes, lets make interesting and thoughtful…
losithhappened:
She is rescuing herself. But prison is the least of what she needs to be rescued from. You don’t get over a lifetime of duty and obligation easily. I still don’t think Sun has reconciled how much she loved her mother with the fact that her mother was wrong and set her on the path to a lifetime of unhappiness.
She still doesn’t need to be in prison to do that. Lol everything you see and want to see happen can take place somewhere else. She doesn’t need to be in prison for half of a season for any of this to happen. Why do you want her to be locked up so badly? Like, why do you keep talking like her being in jail is such a minor detail? She’s confined, and while she’s making friends (which is great and all), she’s literally trapped in jail for a crime she didn’t commit while her murderer of a brother is free. Hell, while the other sensates are free. It’s not right and you can’t use character development as an excuse. !!She doesn’t need to be in jail for that!!
It’s precisely because being in prison is so terrible, and yet there are still ways in which it’s better than her life before. That’s the point. The contrast and the absurdity. Of course her being there unfair and unjust and wrong, but bad things happening to good people is pretty much a staple of...all fiction, throughout history. The fact that something is unfair or morally wrong does not make it a bad narrative choice. Often the reverse.
Nomi gets rescued by Will. Riley gets rescued by Will. Sun stays in jail. What’s up with that? Writers painted him as the white knight but he can only save the white women??
Yes, lets make interesting and thoughtful...
losithhappened:
She is rescuing herself. But prison is the least of what she needs to be rescued from. You don’t get over a lifetime of duty and obligation easily. I still don’t think Sun has reconciled how much she loved her mother with the fact that her mother was wrong and set her on the path to a lifetime of unhappiness.
Nomi gets rescued by Will. Riley gets rescued by Will. Sun stays in jail. What’s up with that? Writers painted him as the white knight but he can only save the white women??
Yes, lets make interesting and thoughtful character development - Sun going to one prison to learn to be free of another (her family), an internal journey and not one she needs anyone’s ‘help’ with - into an issue of imaginary racial prejudice.
losithhappened:
Yes very imaginary. Skin color and race are imaginary. The lack screen time the poc in the show get is imaginary. The plot lines catering more toward the white characters is imaginary. Sun could’ve had that internal journey anywhere. The jail metaphor is fine BUT the fact that she stayed in jail for at least 6 episodes while any of the other captured sensates were freed within one or two episodes is imaginary. It’s all made up by me and I didn’t watch the show. I just like talking shit to annoy you. :)
Nice sidestep. I wasn’t arguing about poc representation, I was arguing that Will not charging in on a white horse to rescue her is not racist. Honestly I’d be more annoyed if he did.
And if you really think that Sun in prison was a waste of screentime where nothing happened I can only assume you didn’t watch very closely. In prison she met the ‘worst’ of people - criminals, murderers - and yet they treated her with more kindness and respect than her own family. Sun spent years hiding and denying her love of fighting, in order to stay ‘respectable’: in prison she was not only able to use it, but do good with it, protecting others. These are subtle but important steps for her, not something to be rushed. Prison is Sun’s journey towards freedom.
Nomi gets rescued by Will. Riley gets rescued by Will. Sun stays in jail. What’s up with that? Writers painted him as the white knight but he can only save the white women??
Yes, lets make interesting and thoughtful character development - Sun going to one prison to learn to be free of another (her family), an internal journey and not one she needs anyone’s ‘help’ with - into an issue of imaginary racial prejudice.
from my understanding, when the sensates are interacting with the scenery where someone else is, it's usually something they're procuring from the memory of the other ? when sun smokes hash with riley she says it tastes "like a memory". so kala can only interact with wolfgang's underwear because he has a memory of having done so before ?? if that makes sense
I can accept Riley x Sun’s interaction better than I can Kala x Wolfgang.
Because Wolfgang is just as surprised/ confused as she is in that scene so none of it gives off an impression that its being constructed from memory.
He’s also observing her go through his things, and interact with them as if they are completely foreign, so if it were something like she was tapping into his memories than she would have a better understating of where she is because he has one
That is not what we get in this scene.
This scene is set up like Kala is actually in his space and he is just observing her go through his belongings without any knowledge of him at all.
What I took from that scene was that Kala was going through her own clothes but seeing them as Wolfgang’s. Wolfgang definitely isn’t doing anything. When they stop visiting I would expect Kala to find (her own) clothes on the floor and Wolfgang not to find anything.