How now, you rogue @hownowyourogue - Tumblr Blog

So I'm reading Pandora's Jar which goes over 10 female figures in Greek Myth; it analyzes these figures from the earliest examples of their story we have from Greece, others from Rome, "lost" stories if they are mentioned in later works, medieval works, touches on modern views; compares them to their male counterparts; and points out themes of how people ancient, medieval, and modern view women.

I'm currently on Medusa's chapter, I have never felt so sympathetic to Medusa before this. Especially since I tend to disregard Ovid and see her born-as-a-monster form. This chapter, even though I'm not finished, has done an amazing service to Medusa without any ahistorical made up hogwash like "her head = women's shelters in Greece" and without making you pick which version (born-monster vs transformed-to-monster) you view her as.

I also find in incredibly interesting what Haynes posits about this myth: that Perseus was invented to explain decapitated Gorgon head imagery, rather than Medusa being invented to give a Hero™ an Enemy™.

#greek myth #greek mythology #hellenic polytheism #medusa #perseus #helpol #this is so interesting!#it makes total sense that the myth was created to explain the imagery people were using #a lot of myths seem to exist to explain a practice

jinjanomatome

Instagram / X

#what a wonderful little shrine

herb-on-a-stick

Greek Mythology Sources

Interest in greek mythology rises anew with the new number of retellings and adaptions...and misconceptions all around...

Claims like "that never happened" or "that's the roman version" are around a lot...but even if you wanted to learn more, where would you even start looking? Where do you begin your research for your next fic, or next discussion? Well...That's for you!

Here's a list of source names, links to access them, maps, family trees & more

Where to access the texts:

ToposText

Database, interlinks all names and places, has almost all sources translated, can find all name mentions of place or character in the sources, has a map with the places

Perseus Collection Greek and Roman Materials (and Scaife Viewer)

Digital Library, nearly all main greek and roman sources, including OG language text and dictionary for those languages (is instable at times, try coming back a few hours/days later and it should be up again)

Theoi Greek Mythology

Database, has summary posts for individual heroes, creatures, gods and events, as well as many translations, has a search function

List of Ancient Sources

Homer's Iliad (8th BC)

Homer's Odyssey (8th BC)

Epic Cycle (and Theban Cycle) fragments (8-6th BC)

Homeric Hymns (7th BC)

Orphic Hymns (2nd BC/2nd AD)

Quintus Smyrnaeus’s Posthomerica (3rd AD)

Tryphiodorus’s Taking of Ilium (3rd AD)

Apollonius Rhodius’ Argonautica (3rd BC)

Nonnus’ Dionysiaca (5th AD)

Hesiod’s Theogony, Works and Days, Catalogue of Women (8th BC)

Statius’s Thebaid, Achilleid (1st AD)

(More under cut)

#greek mythology #resource

pomorama

I find it incredibly funny from a meta/author perspective, that Ancient Greece decided to name their protagonist that angers many people “Anger Bringer” but, even funnier, is the in universe understating that anyone who meets Odysseus must have had the thought “oh dear, how unfortunate to be named hateful/hated” and then they have exactly One conversation with him and go “Ah I see now”

For reference, Odysseus’ name sounds very much like the Greek word odussomai, which can roughly mean “I am angry at” or “I am the cause of anger” (or simply “to hate” or “to dismiss”), a fact that is used for ironic effect frequently in the Odyssey.

It’s also specifically stated in Book 19 that Odysseus’ grandfather, a master thief and one who has also pissed off a lot of people, specifically named him this because “I am disliked by many, all across the world, and I dislike them back. So name the child Odysseus.” 19.428

Bro looked at his grandson and thought “Ahaha, this one’s going to be a troublemaker like me. Better get him started early.”

It’s like a terrible allegory for cause and effect or something.

mikkeneko

Assigned Problem At Birth

#Odysseus

wisdom-devotee

not to sound stupid but like how do you spell their names??

i've seen so many people be like "oh you have to spell it athene not athena" or "it's apolloN not apollo"

new to helpol sorry :(

This isn’t stupid at all! Basically there’s just multiple ways to transliterate the names. I don’t know Ancient Greek yet so I couldn’t tell you which ones are more accurate. Personally I do use Athena, Apollo, etc, and I’ve never ran into problems, so I don’t think those spellings are inherently wrong. I’d say use whatever spelling you want

sag-dab-sar

Wiktionary is perfect for this if you type "[deity name] wiktionary" in google you'll usually be able to get the Ancient Greek entry. The entry will be in Greek script, example, it would be the second one:

There are many many spellings for all the major Gods. Those demanding you use one spelling over the other is just a controlling person.

Apollon vs Apollo is simply Apollo is Latin and Apollon is Greek. But even with Apollon there are many variations

(kept in the cuneiform because its a super cool tidbit)

ombrokharis

Where did the idea of the 12 Olympians come from if every city had their main pantheon that varied from each other

Tbh, idk!

If I absolutely had to guess, I'd say that there's probably a reception-related answer to this question, since a lot of the preconceived notions modern people have about the gods started cropping up post-Antiquity.

Off the top of my head, there was an "Altar of the Twelve Gods" at ancient Athens, but Athens hardly represents the whole Greek world.

In reality, Greece wasn't a politically coherent entity during the Archaic and Classical periods, and there was no dogma within the nexus of ancient Greek religion, so independent groups had a lot of room for variation.

sag-dab-sar

Anon you might find this interesting

The Twelve Gods of Greece and Rome by Charlotte R Long 1987 — Link, account is free just make one and click borrow on this book.

It has a list of other Theoi including in "The 12" at various times and locations included those not in what we consider the "standard". It has two pages worth of "Gods Identified As Members of The Twelve" on page 360-362 it is over 50 identified

Example:

"In the fifth century B.C. the Twelve Gods possessed six double altars in the Altis. According to Pindar, at least one Olympic victor, Psaumis of Kamarina, sacrificed upon them (T 13 A); it may have been the usual custom. According to the scholia on this passage (T 13 B), Herodorus, the logographer of about 400 B.C., listed the gods to whom the double altars were dedicated as Zeus (or Olympian Zeus) and Poseidon, Hera and Athena, Hermes and Apollo, the Charites and Dionysos, Artemis and Alpheios, and Kronos and Rhea." on page 154

hownowyourogue

I did a lot of research on this once, but it was a long time ago, so my memory is a little hazy. Bear with me!

My notes say that altars to the Twelve Gods as an idea were associated with ruler cult, political power, and the deification of the individual. One thing to keep in mind is that there wasn't necessarily a specific twelve deities people had in mind in most places, and definitely not a consistent twelve from place to place. I saw a study referenced once that had apparently found that 54 different gods were included in some set of The Twelve. I think this makes sense because the number twelve carried a sense of "all" in ancient Greece, so in some sense worship of the Twelve would probably have been seen as all gods. My guess is that when people in a specific place thought about their local altar to The Twelve, they might speculate that the most important gods locally were who was meant.

I'm still not really sure when people switched from just calling them The Twelve to The Twelve Olympians. Certainly, the common set from Athens are all gods who live on Olympus. But, just as certainly, not all of the 54 gods included in different sets of the Twelve live on Olympus, and there are also many, many more gods described as living on Olympus than just twelve. My guess is the switch to calling them The Twelve Olympians happened in Rome at some point. I couldn't ever find clear evidence that that term was used by ancient Greek people themselves, though sometimes translators will read it into the texts they translate when The Twelve is mentioned.

#hellenic polytheism #the twelve

hagoftheholler-deactivated20260

i understand historically why it happens (colonization and wars and genocides and such) and im not here to argue that but hot take, i honestly wish Greek/Roman gods and goddesses weren't so popular and weren't so talked about. i think Percy Jackson and Marvel has made it so much worse but i get tired of running into polytheist/deity worship blogs that all honor the same like 5 gods. not intending to be mean but i get so bored reading 34758695 posts about how Aphrodite's light and love will cure self esteem and self love or whatever and lists of correspondences to rocks you need on your altar to honor loki

Valid. It does feel like there is clique-y behavior in witchcraft and pagan communities online where the same 5 deities are talked about constantly.

I also feel this popularity makes it hard for those interested in paganism to branch out and find what deities catch their interest. There are hundreds of deities. But I can only think of... less than 10 that get talked about consistently online.

khaire-traveler

No shame to people who do follow "popular gods" (I am one so like lol), but for sure, it does get frustrating how deities (specifically in helpol, with my perspective) such as Demeter, Hephaestus, and Poseidon aren't talked about pretty much ever, despite being literal Olympians themselves. Don't even get me started on deities such as Nike, Eros, and Thanatos - they've basically been erased entirely.

You obviously do not have to worship and/or talk about every deity on the face of the earth, but it certainly wouldn't do any harm to look into them, research them, and just see what's out there.

sag-dab-sar

I think one of the reasons Greek & Roman deities are so common is because of the absolute boat loads of ancient literature we have on them and the very large academic field about them. Compared to Celtic, Germanic, or Slavic deities— especially since a lot of info comes from Roman, Greek, or Christian sources. And even more so how all Celtic Gods are lumped together despite there being multiple independent Celtic cultures & languages. Its just harder. And the information on Greek & Roman deities is so readily available you can easily debunk bullshit occult, neo-pagan, or pop culture fabrications about these gods. Not so easy with say Tiāmat in a video game or dumb "dragon magick" book. Try to find literature/information on Ĝeštinana that isn't a singular page from Oracc or behind a pay wall .... now try it with Apollo .... oh wait, Apollo has multiple Theoi Project pages full of ancient literature quotes, references, and images.

I don't know if I've mentioned it on this blog or just my old one but research is hard. Finding & vetting sources is hard. And in the US imo, high school is MUCH more focused on making sure you can write dumb pointless essays tailored specifically to the SATs than they are actual source driven research. I didn't get a good education in that until undergrad when I didn't have to focus on bullshit tailored writing; you'd think it would be better at the advanced level in HS, but nope then you're just learning to pass the AP standardized test again not source driven research papers. I don't think enough pagans/polytheists recognize or admit that research is hard. It just is. Finding sources is a skill, vetting sources is a skill, reading sources (especially dense academic ones) is a skill, synthesizing the various sources you've read into a cohesive understanding is a skill. A lot of new pagans/polytheists are in high school or may not have university education for whatever reason; I'm not saying these people are dumb I'm saying that these are skills that need to be taught and learned. Yet many of us, including myself sometimes, just kind of forget that when we answer an ask or reblog with "just do research! find out about lesser known Gods!" The person on the other end might think "okay.... but how", then do a google search and land on triplegoddessblog.net or whatever and be taught Inana is a triple moon sky Goddess and Lilith is the strong anti-patriarchal bestest edge Goddess, when both are bullshit. Not to mention all the pagan sites that list deities like correspondences with absolutely no cultural or historical information. Everything surrounding finding, reading, and understanding academic & historical sources is a skill. And frankly academics can be fucking difficult even when you have those skills. We need to stop treating research like its a power you suddenly gain when you become a pagan/polytheist. Being a pagan/polytheist will eventually necessitate research but that doesn't mean a person magically gains the ability.

hownowyourogue

Totally agree with sag-dab-sar about research skills, of course. But also, I feel like I exist in a different universe from the above comments. I suppose this is all about online people, mostly Tumblr and tiktok I guess? I do see mostly Greek stuff on Tumblr, though I'm a Hellenic polytheist, so that's mostly who I follow. Tiktok seems to me full of people who have no idea what they're talking about, so I don't engage on paganism there and I have almost no idea what's going on there, but maybe it's all full of people talking about 5 Greek gods.

In my real life pagan community, as a Hellenic polytheist I'm in the teeny, tiny minority. Far, far more common are Norse and Celtic polytheists. It has taken me over 10 years living here and being out in the pagan community, running rituals and talking to people, to finally find about 4 people interested in Hellenic polytheism, and for all but one of them it's a side interest. We might get hundreds of people out for a big pagan festival and virtually none of them are interested in Greek or Roman gods. So, I guess if you want to see almost no one talking about Greek gods, get out into your local pagan community more and you'll probably succeed!

(Also I'm not sure how Marvel pushes people towards Greek or Roman polytheism? Don't they barely have anything with those gods at all? It definitely does push people towards Norse polytheism, with Thor and Loki. I've seen so many new Norse polytheists attracted by Marvel movies. I guess Hercules is a Marvel comic but he's hardly a marquee character in the Marvel universe. Certainly Percy Jackson has, though, I'll give you that!)

hellenismnow

Just a small help, the Ancient Greek word for hearth IS Hestia. Same as Thanatos meaning death, Hypnos means sleep and Nyx means night etc. - so Honor Hestia and Honor the Hearth is 100% the same.

Ohhh okay, see I suspected that because Ouranos means sky, Selene is moon, Tyche means luck and so on but the name of the Olympian Gods tended to not be the literal name of what they were the God of.

soufre-de-paris

I have a possibly unanswerable question then.

Were the ancients then aware of the connection? When they spoke of Hestia, did they do so aware of the (at least) dual meaning of the name? When they would say things like, “Make sure you leave an offering by the hearth,” would they know that to mean that the hearth is a physical manifestation of Hestia in the home? Or at the very least a between the hearth and Hestia, like a portal-type situation?

Or would there have been a different way of saying the name to signify whether you meant the Goddess Hestia as opposed to the mundane hearth that everyone had in their home?

(Perhaps I should tag @sisterofiris in this?)

sisterofiris

Thanks for tagging me! I’m happy to answer!

As far as I know, there was no difference between the way the hearth and Hestia were pronounced. The spelling is exactly the same, so I’d say the pronunciation was too. You could tell the difference by saying ἡ ἑστία for “the hearth” and Ἑστία for “Hearth” (i.e. Hestia) but really, it didn’t matter.

When we try to separate the hearth from Hestia, death from Thanatos, the sun from Helios and so on, we’re making a modern person’s distinction. In ancient times, the thing was the God. Our monotheistic culture has influenced our idea of what a God is supposed to be, but in many polytheisms, a God is just something greater than you - maybe all-powerful, maybe not. The logic goes that if it’s greater than you, you want it on your side, hence you appease it through worship. That’s why the sun, Helios, is a God. He’s powerful, he gives us light and warmth, but we are at his mercy because he can vanish anytime and leave us to die. To prevent that, to keep ourselves on his good side, we honour him as he deserves.

The same goes for Thanatos - scary, could kill us any moment - and Nyx - dark, mysterious, steals our senses - and Ouranos - above us, changing and seemingly infinite - and yes, Hestia too. She is fire, one of the most destructive elements of our planet, tamed and contained in a neat space, and used to benefit us. Isn’t that amazing? Isn’t that godlike?

And that’s one of the things that I love the most about Hellenic polytheism. The Gods aren’t distant beings that govern tangible things. Nyx isn’t a voice that whispers in the night. She is the night. The only difference that you could imagine between Nyx and the night, or Hestia and the hearth, is that the latter is just this one right here - this hearth, this night - whereas the former refers to all of them - Night, Hearth in their absolute sense. Hence each object or concept would be both divine in its own right and a manifestation of something greater at once.

I’d like to take a paragraph or two to address the question of the Olympian Gods and their names. Like hellenismnow said, their names aren’t literal descriptions of what they govern - but that doesn’t mean they aren’t meaningful. The reason you don’t hear Apollon and immediately think “oh, Archer” or “oh, Destroyer” or “oh, Musician” as you would with, say, Hypnos, is because the word is so ancient that even the Ancients didn’t know what it meant. Apollon is attested in a Hittite treaty from the Late Bronze Age as Apalunias, and Artemis is written in Linear B inscriptions from the same period as A-te-mi-to. For millennia, people have guessed at the origin of the names, and any encyclopedia page about the Gods will be full of possible etymologies. But nobody knows which one is correct.

What we do know is what those Gods govern over. Artemis, for example, is mistress of everything wild and untamed, from the hunt to little children to virginity. Hermes is the one without boundaries - he travels above, on and below Earth, he speaks and lies, he accumulates wealth both honestly and dishonestly. Think about each of the Gods for a while and try to guess what’s at their essence. That’s what they’re God of, just like Selene is Goddess of the moon. They may not rule over something as tangible or well-defined, but does everything need to be? Love and sleep aren’t well-defined, and yet we experience them, we know they’re powerful, and so they’re Gods. Likewise, many of the Olympian Gods govern - and are - abstract concepts.

(There’s also the issue of syncretism, in which a foreign God is equated with a Hellenic God and makes the Hellenic God’s essence harder to define, but that’s a whole other subject.)

Long story short: the God is what they govern, both in the small sense (this hearth right here) and the larger, abstract sense (the Hearth). This also goes for the Olympian Gods, though being greater and more ancient than other Gods, they are harder to define. That’s why we have names like Hypnos and Hestia for some, and Apollon and Artemis for others. But the origin is the same.

#polytheism #helpol #hellenic deities #hellenic polytheism #i love this

thegrapeandthefig

Hey, can you go over more about why hellenicgods sucks? I mean I know they’re already racist by saying that pagan is the same as the n word. Like what the fuck. Talk about racist trash lol

Buckle up.

To make sure no one accuses me making shit up, I will be screenshoting the stuff from the website’s FAQ and commenting it. No I won’t be going through all of it, because there’s a lot that is really just his opinion that he’s trying to pass as fact.

1.

Why only mention the Orphic theogony? The Orphic theogony is in fact, not the *mainstream* one and was NOT the mainstream one in Athens. It would have been more honest and accurate to say there are *many* theogonies and at least include Hesiod’s.

2

I know you saw it but maybe others haven’t. This is alarming AF. I shouldn’t need to explain why.

3

The funny thing about this point is that there is another page somewhere in the website that tries to go around this -because obviously he’s stuck with the historical existence of oracles. So he lists them, Delphi, Dodona etc... and somehow manages to come to this conclusion:

And the reason he comes to this conclusion is by tactfully ignoring all kind of historical and archeaological evidence and focusing on the stories in myth. He uses the Yes but No fallacy where he starts by acknowledging historical evidence but then uses myth to strike them out of the discussion. The wording in this conclusion should also make you react: he is being purposefully alarmist and fearmongering. He also subtly protects himself from all criticism by saying things like “the author of this little essay” and later “In the tradition this author follows”. He’s making it sound like this only is about him, all while subtly implying “you’re wrong, I’m right. Fear for yourself”.

4 Orphism

It’s not “some scholars”. It’s actually 40 years of peer-reviewed scholarship. NO ONE EVER SAID THAT. The thing is that, he actively chooses to ignore scholarship and chooses instead to interpret himself the (incomplete) material he has. Which leads us to this:

To recap: he chooses to ignore the scholarship that regularly brings new elements to the surface by deciding that the gods dictate what we have access to. This is the dumbest take I’ve ever read. If scholars before us had had that logic, no advancement in research would have been made. I’ve written a small post trying to clear some shit up about Orphism because it’s the topic every single wannabe cult leader is trying to use and I’m fucking tired.

5 Bonus

The fucking 12 days of Dionysus are not historical, like he claims. I’ve debunked that shit last year.

So yeah, come to your own conclusions but there’s SO MUCH on this website that makes me want to go feral that this post is barely scratching the surface.

#hellenicgods #ugh #i hate to see people just repeating what this guy says like it's historical truth instead of one guy's opinion

sag-dab-sar

📖 Myth & Sacred Scripture 📖

In Hellenic Polytheism and Mesopotamian Polytheism (and others but I don't want to speak for them) there is no sacred scripture where the words of a God are given to a myth writer and that writing is then declared holy by some form of religious authority.

The idea that myths are the literal actions of the Gods come from a concept of sacred scripture. Sacred meaning the words have holy implications or they have a fundamentally important connection to the divine. This understanding of religious writings is demonstrated in:

Protestant Christianity where the Bible is divinely inspired (usually derived from 1 Timothy 3:16 & 2 Peter 1:12). Additionally, in Trinitarian Christianity Jesus is God making his words in the Gospels the literal words of God.

Islam where the Quran are the words of God given to Mohammad via the angel Gabriel over the course of his life.

Judaism where traditionally the written Torah are the words of God given to Moses at Mt Sinai.

**There are more examples but I'm not going to try and talk about something I did not study.

This pervasive idea of scripture being the words of God embeds itself into a general view of what religion supposedly is because:

Christianity is the largest religion in the world.

Christianity is the dominant religion in English speaking countries, so when we have these discussions in English it tends to have that cultural Christian viewpoint.

Islam is the second largest religion in the world.

Islam considers the Jewish and Christian scriptures to also be given from God, but they have been corrupted in one way or another. This combination can put a mistaken emphasis on sacred scripture being a fundamental aspect of religion.

Even though Judaism is a very small religion the the written Torah is considered part of the Christian Old Testament (first five books). Christians interpret the scripture completely differently but the idea of Moses receiving the Word of God at Mt Sinai continues into Christianity from Judaism.

In many "dead religions" the closest you can come to the "words of the gods" might be the writings of ancient oracles or those who communed directly with spirits & gods. However, in Greece and Mesopotamia there was no centralized religion or continuous tradition to overview and canonize them into sacred scripture. Additionally, those are not usually what people are talking about when they refer to myth.

Myth is extremely important, but mythic literalism is a misstep people make, often due to our preconceived notions of sacred scriptures and their connection to the divine.

-dyslexic not audio proof read-

-I hope this makes sense-

#paganism #hellenic polytheism #polytheism #helpol #myth #sacred scripture #pagan #polytheist

bathroomsink101

Alright heres another question about hellenism, ive been stalling on this cause uh i actually dont know. Anyways, so a friend of mine, shes follow hellenism. She said "dont put altars of gods / goddess's that dont like each other". Getting to the point, what about Eris and Ares? Everything says that they were companions and siblings. So I assume they can be next to each other? Ive only just made a small altar for Eris, and I wanted to know if I make one for Ares, if they can even be next to each other. Thats all, have a good day, guys !!

sag-dab-sar

I have never comprehend where on earth this take comes from. "Gods who don't like each other" what are we basing that on, myth? Can someone point me to a source that says you can't have X gods and Y gods together on a home altar.

I can see some people prefering to split altars between Chthotic (underworld/ rustic) vs Ouranic (heaven-ish) Gods mainly because some prefer to give offerings in different ways. But those two groups are not a clear cut as people would like them to be because many Theoi can have both roles for example Hermes in his role as herald of Zeus and Hermes in his role of guider of the dead.

Having separate altars for Gods who "don't like each other" has no credence. Eris and Ares can go on the same altar. As can Ares and Athena, Hera and Hephaistos, Aphrodite and Artemis... or whatever combo of Gods people claim don't like each other.

If you, not anyone else, not your friend, just you have personal experience or feelings where you believe the Gods have made it known that they would be unhappy sharing an altar (aka UPG) then act accordingly and have separate altars. Other than that there are no rules in Hellenic Polytheism (note: not Hellenism) dictating which Gods can and can't go on a home altar together. Your friend is mistaken, and if she insists demand an ancient source that proves her claim.

Side note: You also don't need an altar or shrine if you don't want one or can't have one, and thats not offensive to the Theoi at all.

My smarter than me academic friends if there really is an actual ancient precedent let me know. Am I subtly summoning @olympianbutch ? Yes

ombrokharis

Yeah, there's literally no precedence for keeping altars to the gods separate. And, in fact, doing so goes against foundational polytheistic belief.

The Greek gods exist in a pantheon. That pantheon is structured like a family. Already, it is implied that the gods interact with each other. There is no breaking up the divine family because that means dividing the cosmos. You can't divide the cosmos because all of it works together.

Think of it like a cell. You can't just isolate one part of the cell from the rest because then the whole system falls apart.

(Side note: As mentioned above, it's Hellenic polytheism, not Hellenism. Hellenism refers to Greek secular culture.)

#polytheism #hellenic polytheism #helpol

bathroomsink101

Alright heres another question about hellenism, ive been stalling on this cause uh i actually dont know. Anyways, so a friend of mine, shes follow hellenism. She said "dont put altars of gods / goddess's that dont like each other". Getting to the point, what about Eris and Ares? Everything says that they were companions and siblings. So I assume they can be next to each other? Ive only just made a small altar for Eris, and I wanted to know if I make one for Ares, if they can even be next to each other. Thats all, have a good day, guys !!

sag-dab-sar

I have never comprehend where on earth this take comes from. "Gods who don't like each other" what are we basing that on, myth? Can someone point me to a source that says you can't have X gods and Y gods together on a home altar.

I can see some people prefering to split altars between Chthotic (underworld/ rustic) vs Ouranic (heaven-ish) Gods mainly because some prefer to give offerings in different ways. But those two groups are not a clear cut as people would like them to be because many Theoi can have both roles for example Hermes in his role as herald of Zeus and Hermes in his role of guider of the dead.

Having separate altars for Gods who "don't like each other" has no credence. Eris and Ares can go on the same altar. As can Ares and Athena, Hera and Hephaistos, Aphrodite and Artemis... or whatever combo of Gods people claim don't like each other.

If you, not anyone else, not your friend, just you have personal experience or feelings where you believe the Gods have made it known that they would be unhappy sharing an altar (aka UPG) then act accordingly and have separate altars. Other than that there are no rules in Hellenic Polytheism (note: not Hellenism) dictating which Gods can and can't go on a home altar together. Your friend is mistaken, and if she insists demand an ancient source that proves her claim.

Side note: You also don't need an altar or shrine if you don't want one or can't have one, and thats not offensive to the Theoi at all.

My smarter than me academic friends if there really is an actual ancient precedent let me know. Am I subtly summoning @olympianbutch ? Yes

#polytheism #hellenic polytheism #helpol

witchcraft-system

The idea that some pagans have that you cannot view a deity as a lover, a close friend, as your child, as your parent, is so funny to me as someone who is both Hindu and pagan

In bhakti, there are different types of Bhava, or feelings. There is Shanta Bhava, where the devotee is peaceful. Dasya Bhava, where one serves the deity wholeheartedly and finds joy and bliss in service. Sakhya Bhava, where the deity is a friend of the devotee. Vatsalya Bhava, where the devotee sees the deity as their child. Madhurya/Kanta Bhava, where the devotee sees the deity as their lover.

And to call these practices "humanization of deities" just feels disrespectful to me. If you don't understand it then that's completely fine. But to disrespect forms of devotion just because you think it's "too weird to be real" is just not okay.

undeadmagick

I think people focus too much on one way or the other in terms of how to treat a deity. To treat them as much higher and supreme to you so it assures your respect or to treat them as a partner/friend/parent/etc so you trust them and develop a great relationship to them.

But people forget that both of these are important. You should revere them as gods but also welcome them as friends within your life. There is a reason in several pagan religions, there are deities referred to as “mother” or “father”.

arlechinav-blog

How I Convert an Orphic Hymn into Song

First of all, you are going to start off with something that looks like this. (This is Orphic Hymn #30 to Dionysos.)

Κικλήσκω Διόνυσον ἐρίβρομον, εὐαστῆρα, πρωτόγονον, διφυῆ, τρίγονον, Βακχεῖον ἄνακτα, ἄγριον, ἄρρητον, κρύφιον, δικέρωτα, δίμορφον, κισσόβρυον, ταυρωπόν, ἀρήϊον, εὔϊον, ἁγνόν, ὠμάδιον, τριετῆ, βοτρυοτρὸφον, ἐρνεσίπεπλον. Εὐβουλεῦ, πολύβουλε, Διὸς καὶ Περσεφονείης ἀρρήτοις λέκτροισι τεκνωθείς, ἄμβροτε δαῖμον· κλῦθι μάκαρ φωνῆς, ἡδὺς δ’ ἐπίπνευσον ἐνηής, εὐμενὲς ἦτορ ἔχων, σὺν ἐυζώνοισι τιθήναις.

🗣️ Step #1 is: Identify rhyming patterns and divide into according sections.

Take a look at the ending letters of each line and group them into whatever patterns you see. This step can be a little tricky so pay attention to all possibilities.

Κικλήσκω Διόνυσον ἐρίβρομον, εὐαστῆρα, A πρωτόγονον, διφυῆ, τρίγονον, Βακχεῖον ἄνακτα, A

ἄγριον, ἄρρητον, κρύφιον, δικέρωτα, δίμορφον, B κισσόβρυον, ταυρωπόν, ἀρήϊον, εὔϊον, ἁγνόν, B

ὠμάδιον, τριετῆ, βοτρυοτρὸφον, ἐρνεσίπεπλον. B Εὐβουλεῦ, πολύβουλε, Διὸς καὶ Περσεφονείης C

ἀρρήτοις λέκτροισι τεκνωθείς, ἄμβροτε δαῖμον· B κλῦθι μάκαρ φωνῆς, ἡδὺς δ’ ἐπίπνευσον ἐνηής, C

εὐμενὲς ἦτορ ἔχων, σὺν ἐυζώνοισι τιθήναις. C

🗣️ Step #2 is: Identify elision.

Usually where a word ends in a vowel and the next word starts with the same vowel. Sometimes it can be a little more tricky, especially when dealing with Latin but this time I didn't see any obvious uses of it so we can just check this off for now and come back to it later if we find something sneaky.

🗣️ Step #3 is: Count lines and syllables.

You can take quite a bit of liberty in this aspect because what you want to do is establish a pattern. There were a few places where a line could read as 15, 14, or 16 but I'm looking to identify the overall pattern. So, I make note of the tricky syllables in question (usually where there is an elongated or shortened vowel) and use those to help construct the rhythm and melody later.

I counted 9 lines--which is super important and I will explain why in a moment. As for syllables per line, I counted: 14, 16, 16, 15, 17, 15, 15, 14, 15

14 Κικλήσκω Διόνυσον ἐρίβρομον, εὐαστῆρα, A 16 πρωτόγονον, διφυῆ, τρίγονον, Βακχεῖον ἄνακτα, A

16 ἄγριον, ἄρρητον, κρύφιον, δικέρωτα, δίμορφον, B 15 κισσόβρυον, ταυρωπόν, ἀρήϊον, εὔϊον, ἁγνόν, B

17 ὠμάδιον, τριετῆ, βοτρυοτρὸφον, ἐρνεσίπεπλον. B 15 Εὐβουλεῦ, πολύβουλε, Διὸς καὶ Περσεφονείης C

15 ἀρρήτοις λέκτροισι τεκνωθείς, ἄμβροτε δαῖμον· B 14 κλῦθι μάκαρ φωνῆς, ἡδὺς δ’ ἐπίπνευσον ἐνηής, C

15 εὐμενὲς ἦτορ ἔχων, σὺν ἐυζώνοισι τιθήναις. C

This has revealed some preliminary patterns, which will help me anchor some sound.

🐍 Things that stand out to my eyes.

9 Lines. Numbers are rarely ever random when they appear in folklore and they are definitely not random in something like a religious hymn. As we have discussed many times in here before, the number 9 is tied to transition and it often appears in both the cults of Artemis and the cults of Dionysos. Which is absolutely to be expected since their music and dance patterns are nearly identical. Dionysos takes over where Artemis leaves off.

Dionysos and Artemis both like to hang out in the background festivals of other gods. Dionysos particularly likes to hang around in the background of occasions relating to agriculture and romance/marriage. So, even if he is not listed as officially a part of a festival, chances are that if the festival intersects on one or more of those topics there will be some related ecstatic shenanigans going on somewhere. This is important in understanding how the wider cult and associated living traditions have advanced over the years into the modern world.

🗣️ Step #4 is: Identify the load bearing syllables.

These are the syllables that hold the emphasis for pronunciation. When I am writing this out by hand, I usually underline each syllable and then for this step I will come back in and underline the stressed syllables a bit darker. When making notes in type, I just bold the syllable.

Κικλήσκω Διόνυσον ἐρίβρομον, εὐαστῆρα, πρωτόγονον, διφυῆ, τρίγονον, Βακχεῖον ἄνακτα,

Remember that this is just a rough draft so it doesn't have to be perfect. Call it "guidelines." Gotta start somewhere. 😉

🗣️ Step #5 is: Look for internal rhyming schemes or patterned syllable breaks.

This is the part where it really starts to differ from poetic recitation. We are looking to break up each line with some built in rhythmic pauses. You have 4 couplets to compare for a pattern so turn those sharp eyes on and see if you can spot it. I use a / to indicate where I think the natural breaks are going to land.

14 Κικλήσκω Διόνυσον / ἐρίβρομον, εὐαστῆρα, A 16 πρωτόγονον, διφυῆ, τρίγονον, / Βακχεῖον ἄνακτα, A

16 ἄγριον, ἄρρητον, κρύφιον, / δικέρωτα, δίμορφον, B 15 κισσόβρυον, ταυρωπόν, ἀρήϊον, / εὔϊον, ἁγνόν, B

17 ὠμάδιον, τριετῆ, βοτρυο/τρὸφον, ἐρνεσίπεπλον. B 15 Εὐβουλεῦ, πολύβουλε, /Διὸς καὶ Περσεφονείης C

15 ἀρρήτοις λέκτροισι τεκνω/θείς, ἄμβροτε δαῖμον· B 14 κλῦθι μάκαρ φωνῆς, ἡδὺς δ’ / ἐπίπνευσον ἐνηής, C

15 εὐμενὲς ἦτορ ἔχων, σὺν / ἐυζώνοισι τιθήναις. C

Internal rhyming schemes will usually divide each line into a repeating pattern. Only once you have done this part can you then start to figure out where the weight of the melody is going to be. Poetic recitation can just blow past this part but songs need pauses for dancing and breathing.

🗣️ Step #6 is: Consult the encyclopedia of folk music knowledge!

As you try to figure out what kind of melody the piece can be set to, ask yourself a few questions to help narrow it down. I have gone through and answered these questions for Orphic Hymn #30.

Q: What family of music and dance should this hymn belong to? A: Single Handed Frame Drum patterns used in ecstatic and partnership dancing.

Q: What are the possible rhythms and dances that could go with it? A: I know that Artemisian music and dance is very similar to Dionysian so I'm going to start with their pool of shared krotala dances just to try to cross that option off of my list. I already tried it with the Orphic Hymn to Artemis and it worked so if there is a running theme, this is probably our best bet.

Q: Do these patterns stand out as one of those options? A: Actually, they do.

Q: If yes, play it and sing it several times to see if it will cooperate with that option. A: Holy carp, it works! First try!

Q: If no, take the topic of the hymn and compare to folk songs with similar topics that fall under this style of music & dance. A: I will still do this later but I have a working melody and rhythm for now. If I am not satisfied with it after playing it for a while then I will stretch out further.

This involves actually being familiar enough with folk music and music history from this part of the world that you can have something to lean on and lace this to. If you are not there yet, you can start building a familiarity by listening to music. The two genres that I have found most helpful are Dimotika and Rebetiko. It is very easy to find on your own, you just have to take the time to get acquainted. Dimotika Tragoudia (δημοτικά τραγούδια) - Folk music up to the 1930s. Rebetiko (ρεμπέτικο) - The Greek Blues, taverna music of the 1920s-1950s.

You can also go a little bit deeper into the topic by reading the works of Alkis Raftis (dance ethnologist) and Elias Petropoulos (folklorist). Also check out the work of ethnomusicologists like Christodoulos Halaris.

🗣️ Step #7 is: You better record it before you forget it and lose your hard work.

🗣️ Unofficial Step #8 is: Proceed to be haunted for the next month (at least) by the spirit of the song you have created. You did this to yourself.

#hellenic polytheism #trance work #orphic hymn #dionysus #music

whatsupbeanie

I was reading one of my childhood diaries the other day and there was a whole paragraph saying how hopeful I was that my writing will help the archeologists in the far future. Then it proceeded to describe my lunch that day and how my dog was probably secretly able to talk.

thecottageinthedark

#it IS of historical value#children's experiences are underrepresented in historical sources#it doesn't need well written or profound to be of historical value#comic#funny#art

charlesoberonn

bemusedlybespectacled

there is a fucking statue of a kid who lived sometime in the 1200s, around 800 fucking years ago, because we have pieces of his homework that he doodled on while learning how to write. this is one of his drawings:

when I was googling him (because I couldn't remember his name), I stumbled across this twitter thread about him, which includes a different doodle by an italian boy in the 1400s of knights besieging a castle:

It's at the back of one of his schoolbooks for learning Latin.

ALL WE KNOW OF THESE KIDS IS STUFF THEY DREW WHILE THEY WERE BORED AND IT'S STILL HISTORICALLY IMPORTANT.

ldeag-art

Nyx, goddess of the night 🌙

I painted this illustration for the course of Karla Ortiz in Schoolism that I followed alongside my study group 😊

(The noise in the image is because it is glazed, program to protect from A/I)

#hellenic polytheism #beautiful art #nyxdeity #nyx

lunarphoria

☽☾ The Huntress ☽☾

This is a devotional piece I drew for my beloved goddess Lady Artemis ! I'm really happy with the outcome even though I wish I could've done more with the background :/ but also this is the first fully colored piece I've done in a while and I'm glad I could do a more complicated one for my lady ! I hope she likes it , and you do too I hope <3

ALSO please cut me some slack on the rendering of the dog , I never draw animals and fully color them even less so , but I tried my best .

The little "print" on her clothing is supposed to be cypress branches & the white spots on her shoulders & cheeks are referencing the white spots of fawns ! The fur around her shoulders is from a bear and the bandages are stained with Ichor , the golden blood of the gods ( hunting isn't an easy job after all )

This piece was heavily inspired by one of my favorite paintings called " Diana the Huntress " by Gaston Casimir Saint-Pierre which I used as a reference :3

( the divider was made by @ vibeswithrenai ♡ )

#beautiful art #hellenic polytheism #artemisdeity #artemis

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