Revolving Obsessions

Fandom, political happenings and some novel nonsense

[my-arya-underfoot]

The problem with the show's Northern Plot

It amazes me how replacing Sansa’s Vale plot with the Northern plot has fucked over every one of the Stark siblings.

The Northern plot of the books encompasses Jeyne Poole’s story, the North actually remembering, Stannis rallying it’s lords, Davos going to find Rickon, armies marching for “Ned’s little girl”, Jon’s personal connections with Ramsay and dying to save Arya…. all of which was wrapped into Sansa’s mishmash of a plot in s5-7.

And god did that screw everything up for the Starks.

I mean on Sansa’s side she loses her entire training arc. Post ASoS/s3-4 is so clearly the “training montage” phase for the Starklings preparing them for the next stage of their journey. (Which makes sense with the original 5 year jump). Bran’s training with the 3 Eyed Raven, Arya with the Faceless Men and Jon with the Night’s Watch as Lord Commander. Cutting out Sansa’s Vale plot means skipping the part where she actually learns things – politics, manipulation, “playing the game”, even running a freaking household – in favour of being abused for yet another season.

Sure D&D still gave her all those skills – and more – in s6 and 7. But all that ended up doing was raise criticisms of Sansa being a Mary Sue and that she was pulling all these random abilities out of a hat. How is Sansa this amazing politician? Why should she be Lady of WF with no experience? How does she know how to prepare WF for winter? Or lead all the Northern lords? Why is she the only person who knows how to design armour?

Which leads on to the screwing over of all the other Starks roles. Putting Sansa in the North has completely undermined all her sibling’s importance to the Northern plot. What’s more, D&D removed attachments Jon, Arya, Bran and Rickon have to the North and Winterfell, while increasing Sansa’s despite her having the least in the books.  

Because, and I can’t believe this is still a debate, in the books Sansa was always the least Northern and most Southern of all her siblings. That’s not an insult or implying she’s lesser because of it. That’s how her character was designed.

Let’s play Which of these characters is the most logical to become ruler of Winterfell and the North:

a) The Builder: Every-Stark-generation-must-have-a-Bran, training in ancient Northern magic basically, been in the North the whole time, was actually taught how to rule WF as it’s lord, was “the Stark in WF”, knows parts of WF that no one else does and literally compares himself with it, trueborn son, warg, wolf living.

b) Literal Queen of the Wolves: Only trueborn child to inherit the Stark look, her wolf/other half leading a giant pack, has the most wolf imagery/association of all the Starklings, has “the wolf blood” refers to people as her pack, Northerners marching in her name, has casual chats with the old gods, dislikes the South and Southern ways, constantly meeting and helping Northeners on her journey, warg, wolf living. 

c) Lord Commander: Spent the whole time in the North, had a ton of leadership training, serving Northern institution, alliances with Wildings, inherited the Stark look, warg, wolf living.

d) The Lady: Learned Southern ways and Southern politics, married off to a Southerner, struck out of succession, few references/connections to the North,  no warg, dead wolf. 

I mean really, how is this a discussion.

But in the show, Sansa is the one who returns first, gets speeches about how Winterfell is her home, persuades Jon to retake their home, attempts to rally the Northerners, kills Ramsay, gets a shit ton of focus as Lady of Winterfell and negotiates with the Northern lords. Her Southern connections, Robb striking her out his will and even as far back as her actions betraying Ned to Cersei are removed.

Meanwhile her siblings…

Rickon – Plot with Davos searching for him to rally the Northern lords? Gone. Rickon is a pawn to get Sansa and Jon to face Ramsay and killed off.

Bran – Intimately connected with Winterfell and still clinging to his identity? The significance of having the Stakiest of Stark names? References to his place as heir to WF? Gone. Bran of the show is a living google search bar, largely it seems to justify why Sansa remains Lady of WF/Ruler of the North when he rocks up again.  

Arya – Jesus christ where to start. “The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives,” Jeyne Poole posing as her, the Northern lords rallying for ‘Ned’s little girl’? Even further back, every Northener she meets along her journey, her warging abilities, link with Nymeria, her taking on Northern justice of passing the sentence/swinging the sword and her conversation with the actual old gods of the North? Gone. But Sansa gets the lone wolf line, passes judgement, reclaiming WF, leading the charge against Ramsay.

Jon – Implication he was made Robb’s heir, his personal hatred of Ramsay because of Arya, dying because he tried to save Arya from Ramsay? Gone. Yes he was made KitN but in a way that made him look like a dick and to get the audience on Sansa’s side thanks to her moving with no justification because Sansa was in the North instead of the Vale and they removed Robb’s will which would give Jon justification. Instead of working against Ramsay to rescue Arya, it’s connected to Sansa and what Sansa suffered at Ramsay’s hands.

Also, the general fact that Sansa sets up home base at Winterfell with all its people…. while Arya and Bran just get welcomed home by her then fade into the background so she can get on with being ruler of Winterfell.

Not only does is all the pack/family emphasis of the Starks go to Sansa but she’s acknowledged as the leader as well. Which utterly undermines the rest of the Starkling’s abilities, characterization and importance.

Now, obviously not every removal of Jon, Arya, Bran and Rickon’s Northern connections was because of Sansa. But it’s pretty damn obvious that D&D weakened all of their significance to prop up Sansa. Because apparently her actual plot wrapped up in the South and politics and the game wasn’t good enough.  

So, when people ask why I get pissed off at the idea of Sansa as QITN? Because D&D had to take down every single one of her more Northern-leaning siblings to justify her getting that position.

[empiregalaxy]

I disagree. 

The Northern plot of the books encompasses Jeyne Poole’s story, the North actually remembering, Stannis rallying it’s lords,Davos going to find Rickon, armies marching for “Ned’s little girl”, Jon’s personal connections with Ramsay and dying to save Arya…. all of which was wrapped into Sansa’s mishmash of a plot in s5-7.

You are right in the sense that the Northern plot’s complexities were boiled down to a simple plot but you are neglecting to mention that Jon was also part of the plot ‘mismash.’ Also don’t like the implication that Arya played a role in this plot, considering, she’s you know- in Braavos. Also, you are failing to mention Theon, and how he was a center point for the ADWD plotline. D&D made changes, that I disagree with, but you can’t say Sansa was propped up considering she was raped and abused. That’s far worse and more grievous than not including a line about ‘Ned’s little girl.’

It should also be said, in the books, JEYNE was abused at the hands of Ramsay. Not Arya. The awful abuse Jeyne experienced has not impacted on Arya’s plotline in any way. In fact, a central point to it is that the only thing protecting Jeyne is that people think she’s a Stark as well as Theon’s attempts at keeping her safe. Once people realize ‘hey, that’s not Arya’- they won’t care. That’s the sad, miserable point GRRM is trying to make but I have a feeling it flew over your heads. It doesn’t matter if Arya is connected in ‘name’ to the plotline in ADWD- she’s not the one getting raped and abused here. Jeyne is. Gosh, can we actually care about those who suffer from rape?

And god did that screw everything up for the Starks.

I mean on Sansa’s side she loses her entire training arc. Post ASoS/s3-4 is so clearly the “training montage” phase for the Starklings preparing them for the next stage of their journey. (Which makes sense with the original 5 year jump). Bran’s training with the 3 Eyed Raven, Arya with the Faceless Men and Jon with the Night’s Watch as Lord Commander. Cutting out Sansa’s Vale plot means skipping the part where she actually learns things – politics, manipulation, “playing the game”, even running a freaking household – in favour of being abused for yet another season.

Sansa’s training is a mixture of informal and formal- the point is that Sansa is constantly learning. She watches people govern and rule. She goes through war environments, murderous weddings and she learns. Being a politician or a Queen does not require formal training- it’s not a requirement in the way being a Faceless man is. Sansa’s been learning during the whole damn series. The Vale was an opportunity for her to put these pieces together, and lead in a new direction. In the show, she is left to her own devices to do that.

At least you acknowledge she was abused in Season 5. 

Sure D&D still gave her all those skills – and more – in s6 and 7. But all that ended up doing was raise criticisms of Sansa being a Mary Sue and that she was pulling all these random abilities out of a hat. How is Sansa this amazing politician? Why should she be Lady of WF with no experience? How does she know how to prepare WF for winter? Or lead all the Northern lords? Why is she the only person who knows how to design armour?

Which leads on to the screwing over of all the other Starks roles. Putting Sansa in the North has completely undermined all her sibling’s importance to the Northern plot. What’s more, D&D removed attachments Jon, Arya, Bran and Rickon have to the North and Winterfell, while increasing Sansa’s despite her having the least in the books.  

Now we are into the content that really pisses me off. 

Sansa was an amazing politician because of her life experiences. The argument that she should be the Lady of Winterfell is because of her being the oldest living Stark and her contributions to the Battle of the Bastards. Even if the Will neglects the first point, it doesn’t neglect the second. The idea that Sansa has common sense and street smarts seems to mortify you. 

Sansa was always going to return to the North- I mean, what do you think Littlefinger is planning with the Harry The Heir plot? She was always going to return to Winterfell, it’s just the show writers took a different path. Blaming Sansa for perceived wrongs against your favorites is quite unfair. It’s not Sansa’s fault Arya’s writing is shitty. Your supporting evidence for that claim is weak, unconvincing and insufficient. Sansa has a lot of connections with the North- she built a castle out of snow, and frequently thinks about her past and her family. If you’ve read the books, you would know that.  

Sansa, in S6, was in a position of increasing power and support. I think people are so used to seeing her degraded and abused, that they are shocked when suddenly- she gets support and love from other characters. Quite telling, really. And even if you argue that Sansa has a ‘lesser’ connection to Winterfell- that doesn’t negate her suitability for leadership. When it comes to politics, it’s not always about who is the most patriotic or ‘connected’ to the land, but who would do the best possible job. We want Sansa as QITN not because of her ‘connection’ to the North (that’s a minor reason), but because we think she’s suitable for it and would do a damn good job.

Let’s play Which of these characters is the most logical to become ruler of Winterfell and the North:

Okay, I tried not to laugh too much, but you seem to be under a few presumptions:

That Sansa’s dead direwolf means that she is less of a Stark. Was Robb suddenly less of a king or a Stark before he died because Grey Wind got killed? 

Southern connections are negative and worth hating. Considering Ned, their father was fostered in the South, considering the real possibility that Lyanna could have been in love with Rhaegar, considering Ned married a Southerner…. this is a bad point to make. If anything, Sansa’s southern connections would make her able to see beyond nationalistic identity structures and forge meaningful alliances. 

Possessing magic does not, well, magically make someone more suitable for Lord or Lady of Winterfell which is a political position. 

Are we really going to argue, in 2019, that having certain religious beliefs / facial features makes someone more suitable to rule? Really? Cause I don’t think GRRM- who has spoken out against racism and imperialism, would agree with that.

You fail to mention any positives for Sansa- like her longing for home, her mourning her family, her praying, her building a castle out of snow, her calling herself ‘the blood of Winterfell’ nope, you are not mentioning any of that. Probably because it would deter you from your argument that Sansa is not really a Stark-like her Stark siblings.

Anyway, back to this rubbish…

But in the show, Sansa is the one who returns first, gets speeches about how Winterfell is her home, persuades Jon to retake their home, attempts to rally the Northerners, kills Ramsay, gets a shit ton of focus as Lady of Winterfell and negotiates with the Northern lords. Her Southern connections, Robb striking her out his will and even as far back as her actions betraying Ned to Cersei are removed.

You forget to mention that Sansa returns first TO BE RAPED and abused. I don’t know, but Sansa returning to Winterfell in S5 was not empowering for her arc or her character at all. And ofc she is going to make speeches about Winterfell being her home… it is? What D&D did to Sansa was cruel- turning her home where she played with her siblings into a place where she gets raped and breaks bread with the guy who murdered her brother. But I doubt you give a shit about any of that. When she finally escapes- and does stuff, that’s a good thing? I don’t see the problem with Sansa doing those things. And why would the show drench up things that were never in the show to begin with, such as Robb’s will or ‘betraying Ned’ (move on, fandom). As for her ‘southern’ connections, you’d be happy to hear that the show did not dismiss Sansa’s friendship with Brienne. Like… of course Sansa associates the South with all the abuse she has endured. Who wouldn’t? But you seem to want the narrative to drench that awful, traumatizing shit up. 

And considering Ramsay RAPED Sansa…. yeah, she gets to be the one who kills him. The only one who gets to, is Theon Greyjoy (who you’ve weirdly not mentioned, because by turning the Ramsay issue into an ‘Arya and Jon’ issue, you are also neglecting Theon’s abuse. Nice. 

Meanwhile her siblings…

You know what? I agree that Sansa’s siblings got shitty writing. I do, especially Bran Stark. But that’s got nothing to do with Sansa. It’s the problem with trying to compress an unpublished epic novel into 7 television episodes. Sansa getting nice things is not an attack on your fave! Jon also got alot of spotlight in S7, but I don’t see you blaming him.

Instead, you are blaming all your problems with Game of Thrones onto Sansa. It’s unfair, and I have an issue with it. 

But it’s pretty damn obvious that D&D weakened all of their significance to prop up Sansa. Because apparently her actual plot wrapped up in the South and politics and the game wasn’t good enough.  

So, when people ask why I get pissed off at the idea of Sansa as QITN? Because D&D had to take down every single one of her more Northern-leaning siblings to justify her getting that position.

Your evidence is flimsy, as is your assertation that Sansa is to blame for the diminishing role of her siblings. You aren’t backing up your claims with solid or substantial arguments. 

And keep in mind… I think all the Starks would make great Kings & Queens. Actually, an endgame alot of Sansa fans have is a co-ruling situation. If we prefer Sansa, it’s because we are excited about what she’d bring the political atmsophere of the North. 

But because she has a dead direwolf… I suppose that doesn’t matter. 

[minisa-whent]

I wish these people would just say they hate Sansa and they’re jealous she’s doing what they wish their faves could do and go.

[i-the-drop-bear]

Can we all just admit S07 was mistake ridden to its very core?

Oh and that Sansa by most accounts an awesome character. It became the Dany and Jon love story last season, it messed a lot of stuff up. Sansa being QITN is really super plausible. Bran is......not wholly present. Arya is her younger sister. Aaaand Jon is a not Ned Starks child. As much as I would like to see him be the KITN some more.

[adobochi]

finally drew some more wondersoka ✨

[i-the-drop-bear]

I can get behind this for sure

[incorrectfmadialogue]

[dragonfire00002]

@icameheretowinry

[i-the-drop-bear]

[millennial-review-deactivated20]

[i-the-drop-bear]

Hah yeah typical assholes

[mapsburgh]

Let’s not kid ourselves – if J.R.R. Tolkien were alive today, he would have written about 75% of the story of Beren and Luthien in the form of bredliks, then gone back and re-written the first bit three different times. My names Beren And wen is dark And father has Been killd by orc Thru monsters feerce And full of wrath I make my way To Doriath. Im Luthien And wen I pleese To dance at nite Among the trees Wile Daeron plays His harp again I do my dance I charm the man. My names Thingol (Or Tinwelint) Watever, yu kno wat I ment. If yu would wed Tinuviel Then yu must steel A silmaril. My names Finrod And from my cave To help the sonn Of ally brave Disguised as orcs We jorney long To beat werewolves I sing the song. My names Sauron And wen attakt By elf or man I must fite back A better song I then kan sing I send my wolf To eat the king. My names Huan From Valinor. Three times I speak And then no more. When Luthien Needs help I’m on the job - I come And bite Sauron.

[for-le-revolution-deactivated20]

@sar-kalu @i-the-drop-bear He would.

[i-the-drop-bear]

Confirmed

[nyangibun]

but real question why are all my OTPs so extra?

mike radioed eleven every night for 353 days.

clarke radioed bellamy every day for 2,199 days. 

sansa hand-stitched jon a cloak. 

zuko took a lightning bolt to the chest for katara.

no wonder i’m always such an emotional wreck.

[i-the-drop-bear]

Trooper 👍

[blackness-by-your-side]

The sign of high quality is the fact the book was banned by the government. Trash literature NEVER EVER had any troubles with the law.

[bezosbaldhead-deactivated202007]

I am in awe that in 2017, so many books (classics even) are still banned or censored by schools. Some of these books provide great historical context or provide excellent social commentary. These school boards ought to be ashamed of themselves.

[orangen-saft-deactivated2019050]

Banning Fahrenheit 451 just feels so ironic…

[i-the-drop-bear]

The irony is strong with this list

[nyangibun]

Do you think Katara would make Zuko feel safe with her? Do you think he would be able to feel she loved him unconditionally? That he would feel loved with her? Valued? Respected ?appreciated? Special? Irreplaceable? He never got any of that with Mai.

Absolutely!! 

It’s no big secret I’m not a M@iko shipper. I think she’s incredibly unsupportive and dismissive of Zuko’s feelings, which might work with another person, but considering the trauma Zuko went through as a child, he needs someone who can help him grow emotionally, be there for him in a way his family never was and just listen to him. Mai did none of that. 

With Katara, even in canon as platonic friends, she showed him support both physically (thus why Zuko chose her to accompany him to face Azula) and emotionally (as she does with all the other characters). She pushed him to be better than he is. It’s in her nature to be nurturing and loving. I can’t imagine Katara not loving her significant other unconditionally. 

Unlike Mai, Katara would listen to Zuko. You can see the basis of that in the Catacombs when they connected over their respective grief of losing their mothers so early in their lives and that was when they were enemies. If they were together, it’s safe to assume that that understanding and connection would deepen and mature over time. Katara would make sure Zuko knows that she’s always there for him, as a confidante and a friend. She would make sure he knows his feelings are valid and that she loves and respects him, which imo, Mai never did. When Zuko so much as starts talking about it, she dismisses him. Not to mention what Mai did in the comics (ie. basically aid her father’s assassination attempt on Zuko by lying and staying silent).

But what I love about Zutara is not just what Katara could do for Zuko, but what he could do for her too. She’s had to grow up so fast when her own mother died and she became a mother to Sokka then Aang and Toph. Yes, it’s in her nature to be nurturing, as I’ve said, but she’s also a person who has undergone a lot in her life and she needs to be taken care of too. What Aang never gave her was that support. Throughout the show, all Katara did was cater to him, give him unconditional support, try to shield from the harsh realities of life, try to weather his tantrums and ensure he’s protected at all costs. Yeah, he’s the Avatar and he’s important and that would’ve been fine had they not ended up together. But they did and she did all that for him and what did he even do for her? They never ever have a meaningful conversation about Katara. In the comics, there was that one panel where he was teaching and Katara was in the corner looking sad and lost. That’s not who she is. This is the girl who forced the Northern Water Tribe to start teaching a girl how to bend (dismantling the fucking patriarchy singlehandedly). This is a girl who fiercely fights for the disenfranchised, who dons the Painted Lady mask to help people. She is not some idle trophy wife. She’s the most powerful waterbender to have ever been born in years. 

And you know who in the show actually listened to Katara and seen her grief and anger and pain? Zuko. He listened to her in the Catacombs and then helped her find Yon Rha because he knew she needed that closure. He withheld his judgment for whatever she wanted to do because it wasn’t his place to judge. This was about Katara and he was only there as support. Unlike the others, Zuko didn’t hold Katara on a pedestal. He recognised her as an equal, a flawed person, a grieving daughter, an immensely powerful bender and a loyal friend. If they had ended up together, I don’t doubt that Zuko would never have tried to hold her back and she would’ve done so much for the world in politics and bending and medicine. 

What Zuko would’ve given Katara is equally as important as what she would’ve given him. They would’ve been beautiful and healthy together. They would’ve had children that they loved as unconditionally as they loved each other and they would’ve supported them regardless of whether those kids were benders or non-benders. After all, Zuko would’ve encouraged all his kids to learn to fight non-bending styles as he once did. He would’ve instilled them a respect for those who can bend and those who can’t. Katara would’ve made sure they were all equally shown affection and love. 

Just shit, the missed opportunity here. I’m so salty I’ve made myself angry writing this hahaha xD 

But uhh… hope I answered your question? Lol

[i-the-drop-bear]

Forever be salty about Zutara.

It's the finest salt going around

[berniesrevolution]

[i-the-drop-bear]

Woah...like WOAH!

[womanaction]

blade runner 2049: BBBBWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

me, sobbing: thank u sci fi man

[i-the-drop-bear]

So so much bwwwaaaaaaaaaa

[jessiemariev]

[i-the-drop-bear]

Give me more dammit

[babyanimalgifs]

When that planned 15 minute nap turns into a 4 hour nap.

[i-the-drop-bear]

Every damn time

[we-kant-even]

i don’t even know what to do with this…

[for-le-revolution-deactivated20]

@i-the-drop-bear I can’t even

[i-the-drop-bear]

Even from you I was not expecting that at all. At fkn All!

[starks-in-the-north-deactivated]

The Stark Children Narrators as the Elements

Arya - Water

Is a skilled water dancer

Spends most of the series in the Riverlands

Gendry WATERS

She gives water to lots of dying people

Names her direwolf Nymeria, after a queen who crossed the waters of the Narrow Sea and potentially had water magic

Bran - Earth

is a greenseer

is training under the Three Eyed Raven to connect to the weirnet

“My sweet summer child” > summer is associated with the seasons, seasons = earth things

names direwolf Summer (see above for explanation)

Has met the Children of the Forest (= earth magic)

Jon - Fire

is a future dragonrider

R’hollor’s priestess will bring him back to life

Targaryens = Fire

Night’s watch vows: “I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn”

May end up wielding Lightbringer, a flaming sword

Sansa - Air

The Eyrie - a nest of birds of prey

Called “Little Bird”

Associated with Littlefinger, who’s sigil is a bird

Invents the Winged Knights

“The northern girl. Winterfell’s daughter. We heard she killed the king with a spell, and afterward changed into a wolf with big leather wings like a bat, and flew out a tower window. But she left the dwarf behind and Cersei means to have his head.“ Arya XIII, ASOS

[i-the-drop-bear]

That's pretty cool to think about

[redtearstonering]

do women follow the “jr” “3rd” naming convention

[redtearstonering]

i just realized ive never met a woman whos been named the exact same as their parent and i feel like that has to do with the fact that men are obsessed with themselves and their Lineage or whatever the fuck

[theartofangirling]

[i-the-drop-bear]

A lot, and I mean a LOT of women are named after their mothers. It just so happens that they also took their fathers surname. Which didn't help with the jr/2nd-3rd names.

Queen Victoria was named after her mother and her first child was also named Victoria. The main reason why it doesn't happen much if ever is the male surname is rather dominant.

[nyangibun]

if i see another fucking post that says sansa stark is weak and inferior to other female characters because she couldn’t defend herself from a rapist and a sadistic king who forced his guards to beat and abuse her then i’m going to go on a goddamn rampage. 

maybe you don’t like her for other reasons, fine. you dont have to love sansa. it’s okay. but i swear to lucifer if you use victim-blaming reasons to justify your hate of her character or jonsa as a ship, you’re a disgusting pathetic sack of human shit. 

NEVER BLAME A VICTIM OF RAPE/ABUSE FOR NOT STANDING UP FOR HIM OR HERSELF. NEVER FUCKING SHAME THEM FOR NOT LEAVING THEIR ABUSER. NEVER FUCKING SILENCE THEIR VOICES OR PRETEND TO KNOW WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH IF YOU’VE NEVER BEEN IN THAT SITUATION YOURSELF AND EVEN THEN IT’S DIFFERENT FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL HUMAN. 

DON’T YOU FUCKING PERPETUATE RAPE CULTURE, YOU SCUM OF THE EARTH. 

[i-the-drop-bear]

Legit my exact thoughts 👌

[str8-for-pay]

32 Faces You’ll Recognize If You’ve Ever Had Anal Sex With A Penis

[nicolekidmansgrinchhands]

[tanookitoes]

i want a public execution of the writer of this abhorent defience of god

[moonsofmoons]

This, was a journey.

[for-le-revolution-deactivated20]

@sar-kalu @kittens-of-kittenia @i-the-drop-bear

I suffer, you suffer, we all suffer

[i-the-drop-bear]

How dare you make me bleed my own eyeball blood!

What did they do to Winnie?

😅😅😅