One of my favorite aspects of Will and Hannibalâs dynamic is that Will perceives a truth about Hannibal that no one else does, which is that beneath his cruelty lies a strange kind of innocence, an almost mechanical purity in how he enacts destruction. Itâs childlike, as though a child were given immense power. There is no hatred in it, no moral evil, only impulsive creation and annihilation, born from frustration he cannot contain. It reminds me of that apocryphal image of the young Christ who, when angered, would strike others down for trivial offenses. Will recognizes this same quality in Hannibal, and that recognition breeds not fear or outrage, but a kind of reluctant tenderness.
He cannot truly despise Hannibal because he sees him as something to protect, less a man to be guided or redeemed than a force to be shielded from itself. Thatâs why Will forgives him so easily, why he moves past Hannibalâs atrocities with a disquieting ease. To Will, Hannibal isnât evil...he is pure destruction, untouched by corruption or self-hatred.
And that purity unsettles Will deeply, because Willâs own darkness is not pure...it festers. When Will kills, it is with venom, with emotion, with contamination. His violence is personal and vengeful, where Hannibalâs is almost ceremonial, detached, even refined. Hannibal acts like a samurai, never from emotional excess, always from precision and clarity.
Will, on the other hand, is burdened by his humanity. His cruelty is messy, tangled with guilt and rage. That is why Hannibal triggers him so profoundly: Hannibal mirrors his darkness but without shame, without poison. In standing before Hannibal, Will sees not another monster, but a reflection of what he could be if his own darkness were stripped of self-consciousness. And that horrifies him. Others in the show measure themselves against Hannibal and come away feeling morally superior, purified by contrast. Will cannot. Hannibal doesnât make him feel better about himself, he makes him see that his own darkness is uglier because it is emotional, corrupted, and human.
That, to me, is what makes their relationship so compelling and so rarely understood. Itâs not a battle of good and evil, but a conversation between two forms of darkness: one pure, one contaminated, each fascinated and repulsed by the other.
maybe hot take but i think that saying hannibal and will didn't care at all for abigail is boring to me. like i find the concept of murder family much more interesting if they all possessed some form of genuine care and maybe even fucked up love for each other, but the circumstances they were forced into and the nature of their personalities made it so that it had to end in tragedy.
both hannibal and will possessed care for abigail. neither of them only saw her as a pawn, but neither of them ever saw or had the capability to see who she truly was either. yes, they both severely projected their own ideals onto her and never quite saw her as the complex and multi-faceted person she was, but that doesn't mean they didn't care for her. it just means that care was harmful and toxic towards her, ultimately causing her tragic fate.
tbh, i think that most of the characters in hannibal, despite all the manipulation that occurs, do hold some sense of love and/or respect for each other. and that makes it more terrifying. because harming and betraying someone you don't care for is expected, but doing it to someone you love is so much more meaningful. it shows that in some cases, love simply isn't enough to save you.
The thing is, I feel like people understand how fucked up the idea of love is in this universe but often fail to realise that Abigail is a victim of it, too! That âloveâ towards her is as possessive and aggressive as when it comes to hannigram.
Of course she was a pawn both for G.J. Hobbs and Hannibal and she was highly unclear; we know about her as much as nothing really, but...
There was some form of fondness. I highly feel that Will rather thought he loved her because of all the stuff happening, however I WANT to believe that although Hannibal also was projecting onto her, with all his scheming, he genuinely became fond of her. Abigail reminded him of his sister after all. I will never be over the fact that script states he feels genuine sadness while holding her hostage to cut her throat. And it's said that Hannibal doesn't lie when it comes to his emotions. He felt SADNESS then!!! It means a lot to me.
Abigail might got herself into the same mess she was with her biological father, however while she was thrashing when G.J. Hobbs tried to kill her, she came closer to Hannibal and stand almost completely still. And let me remind that while Hannibal was faking her death, he told Abigail both that he would kill her the same way her biological father tried to and that she accepted her father and if it would be so different to accept him. With this weird logic of mine, let me write â she accepted him somewhat as her father.
I fully understand why she was so hostile when it came to Will; he killed her biological father and was pretty off-putting for Christ sake! What is more, he worked for the FBI and she was not only helping her biological father, but also killed someone on her own. Pretty risky to hang out with a guy like that, huh? However, Kacey said she believes, Abigail would forgive Will after all.
They were horrible family but they were a family and I will go down with this.
Sorry for rambling under your post op, I probably shouldn't do so especially when I'm so sleepy, but it made me so emotional because I love murder family as a concept. đ
OMG don't apologize for rambling you hit the nail on the head here, i definitely agree with everything you said. i feel like possessive and toxic love is a given considering the nature of the hannibal universe, i mean any "child" that will and hannibal take on in some way is going to be majorly fucked up by the end of it lmfao
one thing i hate (but it does make sense for the show) is that we never really learn anything about abigail truly. like we don't know what her favorite shows are, if she had friends, what her hobbies were, etc. she is constantly being reduced to ideals, and while i wish we could've known more about her it was a great narrative choice to convey that absolutely no adult in her life took the time to genuinely know and comfort who she REALLY was âčïž
totally agree w everything u said - hannibal was right in that he possesses more care for abigail than will. i think will genuinely started to care about her in the end too, but tbh he was just as selfish as hannibal in spending time with her and only using her for his own whims. i feel like a lot of people forget that will neglected to spend time with abigail on purpose, he was afraid of being with her and afraid of confronting her darkness. the only times he actually hung out with her were when he killed her father, when he tried to persuade abigail to not write that book w/ freddie lounds, and when he needed her help to catch the copycat killer. that's it. and that's also a part of why abigail resented him in the end so much. hannibal is the one that made an effort to take abigail in as a daughter, will thought of her that way (again, mostly due to GJH) but kept his distance on purpose, alienating her as a result. but i digress.
if hannibal didn't care for abigail at all he wouldn't have compared her to mischa. i mean hannibal does some pretty fucked up things to the people he loves and/or respects, so i don't find it hard to believe that he could love abigail and still choose to kill her. unfortunately will is always going to be more important to him than abigail, which is why he killed her. but the genuine care and sadness was still there.
also omg i didn't know kacey said that about abigail forgiving will, that's so fucking sad đ did she say that in an interview? i can totally believe her though, i think that a lot of abigail's animosity towards will in the end came from his disgust at what she did and his weird ass behavior towards her in the cabin. i like to think she didn't hate him, but was just quite scared of him. rightfully so, i mean he killed her father and hallucinated killing her, he really wasn't in a good state of mind to be around abigail at all. but if the three of them truly left that day abigail would definitely realize that hannibal is the more dangerous one, and might've even tried to get closer to will for protection
help me now i'm feeling bad because i went on an even longer rant than you đ so many interesting things to take away from these dynamics, they genuinely make me insane
I strongly believe the universe of Hannibal is a perfect example of the saying that love cannot save anyone; here love is both the driving and yet, at the same time, the destructive force. The line between these two is pretty thin.
Same! I wish we knew her better, but at the same time, I also get it as well as you do â she's only âher father's joyâ and it frustrates me deeply, and yet, I find it so satisfying! Because narratively she doesn't count as a person beyond anything else than being only the daughter of her father.
Oh! Now that you mentioned it! I often think about the scene in which Abigail tells Freddie that Will avoids her, because she reminds him of her father. I find it interesting, because yes, Abigail is right, but at the same time, she is also trying to keep the distance between two of them, understandable, given her reasons! However, she sounds somehow sad while saying that? I wonder, if it was genuine or was being manipulative. It's said she has a knack for manipulation, but... maybe, just maybe, on some subconscious level even, she wanted to be understood by him the same way he understood her father? She knew he could do that...
[EDIT, because I tried to add it, but then the tumblr went down]
On the other hand, in the same episode, she tells Will sharply that him killing her father doesn't mean he get to be him. Again, she is right, but... damn, it hurts anyway. Was the saddness earlier honest or was she only trying to play a poor victim being left also by her "saviour"?
[END OF THE EDIT]
Sometimes, I also wonder, if Hannibal saw only Mischa in Abigail. And let me explain. She was an orphan just like him, suddenly all alone, without her closest ones. She was capable of violence, just like him. Mischa was his innocence. Abigail? He wanted both protect and guide her, how to avoid or create chaos.
I remember, at least once I posted about Hannibal killing Abigail. In my opinion, even though he killed her like some child having a tantrum because of being hurt, I think that in his mind it was the only way. I meanâ just before killing her, he compared being in a prison cell to dying slowly. And let's be honest here, if he left Abigail alive, she would end up in a prison, since the FBI knew she was helping her father, killed Boyle, hid his body and faked her own death. It sounds like a looong sentence. Then, cutting her throat in that sense was almost like being a merciful, thoughtful father, wasn't it? It might have been brutal, but at the same time, can't it be labeled as love or fondness?
I believe she said so at RDC! I can find the link to some posts. As far as I remember, she said that Abigail would forgive Will he forgave Hannibal killing her, but she wouldn't forgive Hannibal, lmao.
[EDIT, so I can add the links]
Abigail forgiving Will, but not Hannibal
some Kacey's thoughts on Abigail and her families, part 1
some Kacey's thoughts on Abigail and her families, part 2
Kacey on how Abigail loves Will
[END OF THE EDIT]
But I think you are right. Sometimes I wish they would have gone to Italy together or that after gutting Will, he wouldn't kill Abigail, but given his love for Will was stronger, my headcanon is that even so, Abigail would be the one who would ended up as a valentine written on a broken man, because Hannibal wouldn't be able to bear the sight of her, knowing that he wanted the three of them to be together and Will isn't there!
I also think that what you write would be pretty similar situation to the one of Louis, Lestat and Claudia. Lestat knew he couldn't let their daughter go, because that would mean Louis could leave him too. And yeah, that situation would make Will and Abigail closer to each other. đ đ
oh my gosh THIS, literally everything you said is so perfect i 100% agree with you!!! imo a big part of the reason why i love hannibal is because love is a central force and common theme throughout the show, but it's portrayed as much more complex and grotesque than what we would imagine "true love" to be. like for example, we know that alana and molly would be good for will, but we don't really see love there. or if we do, it's a kind of love that we know will doesn't yearn for, and one that we as viewers don't root for either. i also love how hannibal and will specifically have very nonconventional ways of showing each other love, ways that in real life we wouldn't think of as romantic or even genuine. their love language is basically violence, they harm each other and yet are attracted to the harm they put each other through, because only they have the capabilities to hurt each other that way. in the real world most people don't want something like that. but in this world the show is written in a way where you start to understand and appreciate the intricate and yet tragic way love is portrayed. love is shown not as a way to save someone from harm, but rather as a reason to cause it.
yeah for sure, that's why i love perusing the script and rewatching s1 to see tidbits of her personality that come out besides her manipulating others or trying to save herself. i so wish we could've gotten more scenes of her before the whole GJH fiasco, i mean obviously it wouldn't make sense in the show but i just need to see what she was like before her father made her kill all those girls. she seems like a totally different person in episode 1, down to the clothes she wears and the way she presents herself (btw i love how clothing is portrayed as a narrative tool that gives viewers insight into the mental state of certain characters, i've seen so many good analyses on this).
that scene with abigail and freddie caught my eye when i recently rewatched the show!! i think that the reason why people's reasonings and understanding of abigail's motives are so different is because she is a very mysterious character, her motives are quite ambiguous and we rarely get genuine reasons for why she says certain things. it's also hard to pinpoint when she is being genuine versus manipulating someone, and i think it's hard for her to pinpoint that too. most of her scenes with freddie include some kind of manipulation, because she's trying to convince freddie she's innocent, but personally i feel like she was telling the truth there. i didn't really pick up on sadness from her when she told freddie that, just honesty, like she understands why will stays away from her and she understands that they're both haunted by her father. whether she resented him for that or was relieved by it is up to debate. perhaps it was a little bit of both.
additionally, in the scene where abigail tells will "just because you killed my dad doesn't mean you get to be him," im pretty sure there was actually more to that dialogue that they might've cut out. when will tells her that things will change for her, she retorts that "yes, things change. for instance, you're here. for a change." then will tells abigail she's important, and abigail replies with "now that i'm writing a book." then she gives her line about will not being her dad. i can't remember if they included that dialogue in the scene or not, but it seems like abigail is a little resentful of will's avoidance towards her. then again, it's up to debate because abigail also tells freddie that being with will makes her feel like her dad is still alive. so i get the sense that she has conflicting feelings towards him.
i definitely think that hannibal saw a lot of himself in abigail. they both went through significant trauma at a very young age, trauma that caused them to become darker, albeit for different reasons. he saw a lot of will in abigail too, as they both deal with conflict surrounding their darker behaviors and are afraid to fully face them like hannibal has. it makes murder family sadder to think about, because abigail was so alike will and hannibal, but that was also the reason why their dynamic ended in tragedy.
yeah i think that hannibal killing abigail was impulsive but also what had to happen. i remember seeing somewhere that the original plan was hannibal and abigail leave will and go to italy together (maybe?) but imo that would've never worked. abigail is so much different than bedelia, im not sure she would've been able to survive hannibal's darkness like bedelia was able to (at least for a time, lmao). also you're right, if he left her behind with will her life would've basically been over. it was his only choice, in a way.
oh my god thank you for those links, kacey's words are so devastating đ especially that last one, abigail not wanting to die but knowing it was her only choice and still feeling love for will in the end is the saddest thing ever i swear. kacey's use of the word "love" also makes me wonder how hannibal convinced her to eventually run away with him and will, since she resented will heavily at the end of s1. maybe hannibal framing will using her ear gave her a little bit of sympathy for him, lmao.
i haven't watched or read iwtv but i do know of the parallels. i like to read fics about murder family (even if some of them are quite ooc) but i'm not really sure how they could've worked out in canon. especially due to of the destructive nature of hannibal and will's relationship, i think that abigail might've still died. maybe if will hadn't betrayed hannibal they'd have a chance. but at the end of the day we'll never know
The main concepts that keep coming up in interviews of Bryan Fuller and some of the cast are:
"Will Graham's broken mind" and "memory palace bullshit"
"Inception meets Angel Heart"
an interesting return to season one dynamics, but flipped
deeper exploration of Will and Hannibal's relationship than in previous seasons
stuff from Hannibal the novel that no other adaptation has done yet.
we're in Cuba
So based on that, here are some possible story beats for S4 (picking up right after the Fall as if the show was never cancelled):
We start out in Cuba. The most obvious reason? To hunt down one of their victims that have fled the country, as Hannibal does at the end of Silence of the Lambs. Based on interviews, it's clear that Chilton would remain in the US to head the BSHCI again (how is he alive, let alone working?), so it's more likely that they're hunting Bedelia for the post credits leg scene.
Will Graham's Broken Mind
During the Fall, Will suffers a mental schism that splits his personality, similar to the detective in Angel Heart. I don't think he literally has a split personality disorder, but he compartmentalizes his killer/Hannibal self from his moral self. When he participates in murders, he's not quite himself, viewing it through a dream lens (we saw a little of this when he was killing the Dragon). It's possible that he takes on personality traits from killers in season one, or even has to fight against a Red Dragon personality ("You can always toss the Dragon to someone else." "Will Graham interests me.")
I think we'll see a return of the teacup metaphor relating to Will's mental schism, since their reunion represents the "teacup coming together again" the way Hannibal wanted it to in Digestivo. "Not even in your mind?" Well, the teacup HAS come back together in Will's mind, because there's no other way for him to accept his feelings for Hannibal. He mentally regresses back to season one/two and we see the return of the Abigail imago we last saw in Primavera, as well as Beverly and Hobbs and Gideon and all our other friends. Maybe Will thinks they're all alive again! Or maybe he thinks he's dead! This would be really poetic from Hannibal's perspective, since his arc in the novel is about dropping a teacup and "being satisfied when it does not gather itself together." So it would be perfect for the cup to gather itself in Will's head and for Hannibal to realize that's not at all what he wants.
Will hallucinating Abigail would be a fun way to get the "murder family" dynamic. "It's hard to grasp what would've happened, could've happened. In some other world⊠did happen." Well, we can see that world in Will's broken mind!
I don't have a clear guess of what a "return to season one but flipped" might mean. There are lots of possibilities...
1. Could refer to Will's encephalitis days when he wasn't sure if he was committing the murders or not, except this time he's committing them. Maybe he has a pendulum wipe moment and thinks he's reconstructing a murder instead of committing it (like a reverse of the Georgia Madchen murder in Buffet Froid). Going extreme in this direction, maybe he analyzes his own crime scenes with Hannibal in therapy. Maybe Beverly shows up at an actual crime scene and helps him "analyze the evidence."
2. Could refer to his dynamic with Hannibal. According to the rest of my bullet points, they return to their therapy sessions, but with memory palace elements and hallucinations, etc., but this time Hannibal is trying to fix Will instead of breaking him down.
Something from Hannibal the novel that no one else has adapted
This could be a few things, but I think it's most likely the end of the novel where he's brainwashing Clarice. Hannibal would use drugs and hypnosis ("therapy") to help Will merge his two halves and fully accept who he is. This happens in different places in their memory palaces, kind of like the white space dinner scene from Dolce, or when they were jumping around to different places in the Red Dragon investigation. To be clear, they're on friendly terms. Will consents to this. He has ample opportunity to escape and go back the US if he wants. We might get a lot of information on Will's childhood and backstory, maybe a "saving Hannah the slaughterhorse"/"silence of the lambs" moment. I'd like to see him as a cop working in New Orleans. The time he got stabbed. The time he didn't have the stomach to pull the trigger. This would be a nice reverse from the S3a dynamic where Will was delving into Hannibal's backstory. :)
Part of this "therapy" could be helping Will let go of Abigail the way Hannibal helped Clarice let go of her father. This plot beat has already been done twice in the show (1. The Primavera line "A place was made for you, Abigail. The only place I could make for you" refers to the place in Will's mind. 2. The WCWTS scene where Hannibal helps Abigail let go of her father. "What you need of your father is here, in your head.") BUT I still want to see it with Will/Hannibal. What I'm really saying is it would be cool if Hannibal showed Will Abigail's skeleton to convince him that she's dead and Will cried over her skull.
For the other half of Will's therapy, Hannibal has to get him to really delight in a murder when he's fully present as himself (Similar to how Clarice ate Paul Krendler's brain. Similar to how Hannibal wanted Will to kill Mason Verger.). Ideally the victim wouldn't be a criminal (Will is already fine killing murderers like Dolarhyde and Bedelia), but a representative of the corrupt judicial system. Someone who has personally slighted Will. An FBI official that Will HATES enough to eat their brain. The perfect option is Kade Prurnell (whose name is an anagram for Paul Krendler!). So yeah I think Hannibal catches Kade Prurnell and they have a dinner party where Will kills her and realizes, "Hey, I don't care what Jack or Alana or the FBI or anyone thinks about me anymore. My personal ethical code is good enough for me because I am MORE ethical than the law." And then he and Hannibal can be full murder husbands after that.
Side character subplots
While all this is happening, there's an international manhunt for Will and Hannibal going on. Jack/Price/Zeller are still at the FBI, probably beefing with Kade Prurnell to establish how awful her character is. Either Clarice Starling, Miriam Lass, or Alana Bloom are on the case. The murder/disappearance of Bedelia (or whoever) in Cuba is their first lead, so everyone gets to go to Cuba!
It's been nearly two seasons since Will interacted with Prurnell, so maybe they need to have a cat and mouse dynamic in Cuba to reignite his loathing. Idk why she would be in Cuba, when she works for the OIG... but who cares! She's there, motivated by greed, basically acting as Will's Pazzi. Maybe she's bullying her underlings in true Krendler fashion.
At this point, Jack is the only somewhat moral person in the entire cast. His primary motivation is saving Will. Yep, that's right, he still thinks there's a chance to bring Will back. He's leading the investigation, but he's hoping to catch Will alone before anyone else finds him so he can try to talk him back onto his side. This would continue the God vs. Devil thing with Hannibal, fighting over Will's soul.
Maybe Jack finds Will when he's in his broken state of mind and they have a chat. I'd want this scene to function like Clarice's hypnosis scene where she talks to her "father." Jack and Will address the vague father/son dynamic they have ("I'm not your father, Will." "Abandonment requires expectation." Jack as God/Will as the Lamb). Jack forgives Will for his crimes. Will forgives Jack for sacrificing him. The conversation helps Will along in his "therapy."
Last time we saw Alana, she was fleeing on a helicopter with Margot and their son. My first thought was "Omg they're going to Cuba! They're going to get Chilton'ed in Cuba!" but Fuller has mentioned that Margot would be actively managing the Verger meat packing company as a vegan girlboss lesbian so idk. (I personally don't see how a vegan could run a meatpacking company... maybe it transitions to tofu packing).
Anyway, I think Alana's character has gotten even darker since Hannibal's escape. She's given up on Will and is completely focused on protecting her family. Knowing Hannibal is going to come to kill her, maybe she sets up some sort of trap for when they come (or she puts Will's dogs under a cardboard box held up by a stick and waits). Maybe she catches Will and Will has to pull a Bedelia and pretend he was kidnapped and brainwashed (and he kinda was, if Hannibal used hypnosis and drugs like in the book). I think it would be fun for her to finally give into her "professional curiosity" about Will and try to study him (like a Bedelia/Mason hybrid character). Maybe she teams up with Jack to use Will to catch Hannibal. It would be wild if W+H actually killed her, but maybe! Maybe she gets the Chilton treatment and lives, but gets a nice facial scar like every other fallen character in the show.
Freddie Lounds would have to come back! And I want her DEAD haha. She's escaped punishment for too long, so in my ideal S4, she writes a book about Abigail even though Will asked her not to. Maybe she's investigating/contaminating Will's crime scenes in Cuba? She's definitely gonna die, but not before W+H use Tattlecrime for some shenanigans!
Chilton loses a limb (that's really all he has left to give). In an actual S4, I'm sure there would be a plot reason for this and some other killer would probably do it, but in my mind it's a comedy beat. W+H don't even set out to get Chilton. They don't hate him, they just find him pathetically entertaining at this point. Through Chilton's own incompetence or some karmic twist of fate, he runs into them (like Barney at the opera). W+H take one look at each other and go, "You know what would be funny..."
I have NO idea what to do for Molly. I assume she's living with Wally's grandparents in Oregon. Maybe Will mails her some signed divorce papers and that becomes evidence in the investigation lol. I'd rather leave her in peace!
More serial killers who used to be Hannibal's patients! W+H read about a former patient's murders in the news and go to catch him before the FBI can (running into the FBI in the process, of course).
Other stuff
I'd love to skip around to Brazil or Buenos Aires, the South American locations from the books. Maybe Hannibal gets injured and needs surgery in Brazil, and his medical records are another lead for the investigation. Maybe the season ends with a happily ever after in Buenos Aires. <3
They pretend to be recovering from plastic surgery to hide their faces in bandages. I just think that would be funny.
Will escapes Alana's clutches by using all the serial killer skills he learned in season one. He pretends to be a dead body, wearing someone else's face as in SotL. (This was actually in the Digestivo script but it got cut.)
They steal an ambulance (and turn off the radio!) again like SotL. And then the "This is very educational" line from Sorbet would come full circle.
Someone has to send a secret message using book code. What if W+H got separated and that's how they had to communicate? Or maybe they communicate to another killer that they're hunting? Or maybe they do it just to taunt the FBI?
Jack vs. Hannibal fight scene (round 3)! This time over Will's soul. Will watches, amused (maybe in broken mind state).
(If anyone else has thoughts I'd love to hear them!)
maybe hot take but i think that saying hannibal and will didn't care at all for abigail is boring to me. like i find the concept of murder family much more interesting if they all possessed some form of genuine care and maybe even fucked up love for each other, but the circumstances they were forced into and the nature of their personalities made it so that it had to end in tragedy.
both hannibal and will possessed care for abigail. neither of them only saw her as a pawn, but neither of them ever saw or had the capability to see who she truly was either. yes, they both severely projected their own ideals onto her and never quite saw her as the complex and multi-faceted person she was, but that doesn't mean they didn't care for her. it just means that care was harmful and toxic towards her, ultimately causing her tragic fate.
tbh, i think that most of the characters in hannibal, despite all the manipulation that occurs, do hold some sense of love and/or respect for each other. and that makes it more terrifying. because harming and betraying someone you don't care for is expected, but doing it to someone you love is so much more meaningful. it shows that in some cases, love simply isn't enough to save you.
The thing is, I feel like people understand how fucked up the idea of love is in this universe but often fail to realise that Abigail is a victim of it, too! That âloveâ towards her is as possessive and aggressive as when it comes to hannigram.
Of course she was a pawn both for G.J. Hobbs and Hannibal and she was highly unclear; we know about her as much as nothing really, but...
There was some form of fondness. I highly feel that Will rather thought he loved her because of all the stuff happening, however I WANT to believe that although Hannibal also was projecting onto her, with all his scheming, he genuinely became fond of her. Abigail reminded him of his sister after all. I will never be over the fact that script states he feels genuine sadness while holding her hostage to cut her throat. And it's said that Hannibal doesn't lie when it comes to his emotions. He felt SADNESS then!!! It means a lot to me.
Abigail might got herself into the same mess she was with her biological father, however while she was thrashing when G.J. Hobbs tried to kill her, she came closer to Hannibal and stand almost completely still. And let me remind that while Hannibal was faking her death, he told Abigail both that he would kill her the same way her biological father tried to and that she accepted her father and if it would be so different to accept him. With this weird logic of mine, let me write â she accepted him somewhat as her father.
I fully understand why she was so hostile when it came to Will; he killed her biological father and was pretty off-putting for Christ sake! What is more, he worked for the FBI and she was not only helping her biological father, but also killed someone on her own. Pretty risky to hang out with a guy like that, huh? However, Kacey said she believes, Abigail would forgive Will after all.
They were horrible family but they were a family and I will go down with this.
Sorry for rambling under your post op, I probably shouldn't do so especially when I'm so sleepy, but it made me so emotional because I love murder family as a concept. đ
OMG don't apologize for rambling you hit the nail on the head here, i definitely agree with everything you said. i feel like possessive and toxic love is a given considering the nature of the hannibal universe, i mean any "child" that will and hannibal take on in some way is going to be majorly fucked up by the end of it lmfao
one thing i hate (but it does make sense for the show) is that we never really learn anything about abigail truly. like we don't know what her favorite shows are, if she had friends, what her hobbies were, etc. she is constantly being reduced to ideals, and while i wish we could've known more about her it was a great narrative choice to convey that absolutely no adult in her life took the time to genuinely know and comfort who she REALLY was âčïž
totally agree w everything u said - hannibal was right in that he possesses more care for abigail than will. i think will genuinely started to care about her in the end too, but tbh he was just as selfish as hannibal in spending time with her and only using her for his own whims. i feel like a lot of people forget that will neglected to spend time with abigail on purpose, he was afraid of being with her and afraid of confronting her darkness. the only times he actually hung out with her were when he killed her father, when he tried to persuade abigail to not write that book w/ freddie lounds, and when he needed her help to catch the copycat killer. that's it. and that's also a part of why abigail resented him in the end so much. hannibal is the one that made an effort to take abigail in as a daughter, will thought of her that way (again, mostly due to GJH) but kept his distance on purpose, alienating her as a result. but i digress.
if hannibal didn't care for abigail at all he wouldn't have compared her to mischa. i mean hannibal does some pretty fucked up things to the people he loves and/or respects, so i don't find it hard to believe that he could love abigail and still choose to kill her. unfortunately will is always going to be more important to him than abigail, which is why he killed her. but the genuine care and sadness was still there.
also omg i didn't know kacey said that about abigail forgiving will, that's so fucking sad đ did she say that in an interview? i can totally believe her though, i think that a lot of abigail's animosity towards will in the end came from his disgust at what she did and his weird ass behavior towards her in the cabin. i like to think she didn't hate him, but was just quite scared of him. rightfully so, i mean he killed her father and hallucinated killing her, he really wasn't in a good state of mind to be around abigail at all. but if the three of them truly left that day abigail would definitely realize that hannibal is the more dangerous one, and might've even tried to get closer to will for protection
help me now i'm feeling bad because i went on an even longer rant than you đ so many interesting things to take away from these dynamics, they genuinely make me insane
maybe hot take but i think that saying hannibal and will didn't care at all for abigail is boring to me. like i find the concept of murder family much more interesting if they all possessed some form of genuine care and maybe even fucked up love for each other, but the circumstances they were forced into and the nature of their personalities made it so that it had to end in tragedy.
both hannibal and will possessed care for abigail. neither of them only saw her as a pawn, but neither of them ever saw or had the capability to see who she truly was either. yes, they both severely projected their own ideals onto her and never quite saw her as the complex and multi-faceted person she was, but that doesn't mean they didn't care for her. it just means that care was harmful and toxic towards her, ultimately causing her tragic fate.
tbh, i think that most of the characters in hannibal, despite all the manipulation that occurs, do hold some sense of love and/or respect for each other. and that makes it more terrifying. because harming and betraying someone you don't care for is expected, but doing it to someone you love is so much more meaningful. it shows that in some cases, love simply isn't enough to save you.
AU in which will has been secretly obsessed to the point of genuine (if not toxic) infatuation and lust with the chesapeake ripper as he starts to profile the case. even better if he feels so disgusted at himself for it that he begins to confide in hannibal about these urges (much to hannibal's delight). and as he starts to profile more killers he becomes more enamored with the ripper, starting to view his kills less and less like murder and more like art.
i suppose will has always viewed the ripper's kills as art in some way, but in this AU he strongly believes and embraces this conviction, and feels more self hatred for it versus vehement denial. perhaps under hannibal's influence he Becomes darker sooner, starting to kill alongside the ripper and sending messages to him through those kills.
hannibal, of course, is taking this in stride, simultaneously fervidly intrigued (elated) by this new development and slightly unsettled about how will is diverting from his original plans. in any case, the relationship between the two takes a wildly different turn
coldish take yellowjackets: shauna is HEAVILY mischaracterized by the yj fandom.
with season 3 and shauna's character development there's bound to be lots of discourse about her in fandom spaces. and it's also perfectly fine to dislike her character - after all she is written to be somewhat unlikeable and a generally terrible person. but i feel like especially on tiktok her character is EXTREMELY mischaracterized to the point where i'm wondering if some people even watched the show in the first place??
i just don't think the amount of hate or the characterizations she gets are really justified. a lot of people like to talk about shauna being "evil from the start" or purposefully making jackie sleep outside to kill her (which is absolutely ridiculous imo). others say that she's lacked empathy since season 1 or that she's incapable of feeling it, which is also completely untrue.
the major thing that ticks me off is how people treat her season 2 character, saying that she "deserved" to lose the baby or that it was "karma" for her sleeping with jeff. i simply don't understand how people can say this?? not only is it blatantly cruel but i also just don't understand how you can come out of watching the birth scene without feeling tremendous sympathy for shauna.
at the end of the day i feel like shauna is an extremely complex character and i absolutely hate when people call her a two dimensional villain or accuse the writers of butchering her character in season 3. yes, i agree that season 3 did have major flaws, but personally i felt like shauna's arc was appropriate and made sense for where the story went in the adult timeline. i don't believe she turned "evil" just for the sake of having a villain in the last season, i believe that all the girls had the capacity for such violence and used shauna as a conduit of sorts for that darkness within them. i also believe that other characters (specifically lottie) get excused for their actions and almost babied by the fandom while people fail to give shauna the same treatment, which is frustrating. but all in all i wouldn't even call shauna specifically evil, but rather a product of her environment and the immense trauma she went through in those months.
and again, it's perfectly fine to dislike a character. shauna's done terrible things especially in the finale and i understand why people would dislike her (especially if morality is important to you when it comes to thinking about the characters in this show). i just think that shauna is heavily mischaracterized and not correctly understood by the fandom. and it's a little silly to make your entire personality about hating a character when you can't even be bothered to understand them first
rewatching hannibal is an experience bc i'd truly just forgotten how bright season 1 (esp the first half of it) was in comparison to the rest of the series. it almost feels like an entirely different show with how different the color scheme is. but it's so creative to use the visual color scheme as a representation of will graham's deteriorating mind/removal of person suit.
and it's also equally interesting that most of hannibal's scenes were already dark from the get go. because hannibal has already embraced that he's a monster - there is no denial of self that is present in will's character for the majority of the show.
the notion that a relationship becoming romantic cheapens the value of prior bonds of friendship is so odd to me. not only is it completely inaccurate but it's so interesting that this kind of argument is almost solely brought up while talking about queer relationships.
i think it's interesting how some people in the hannibal fandom are just incapable of nuance in regards to will graham. like no he isn't an angel but that doesn't mean he's pure evil either (and vice versa). imo will's constantly divisive nature is part of what makes him interesting.
i also think will is oversimplified a bit as a character because he represents very abstract concepts in nature, like empathy, darkness, corruption, etc. because of this people predominantly either think of will graham as a symbol of darkness or a symbol of âgoodnessâ and empathy that leads to ruin. while both of these concepts are true to an extent, i think that either hugh dancy or bryan fuller said in an interview that will graham is a symbol for humanity, and that fits him better as a character.
will doesn't just represent one side of the morality scale, he represents morality in its entirety. he is a complex, fluid, ever changing character whose motives are never revealed to the viewers because he himself does not know where he stands. he adapts to change and situations in mere moments, never really sticking to one plan but rather testing both sides and constantly at war with himself on which side to choose. this dichotomy between will's "morally right" side and "true" self is emphasized in seasons 2 and 3, and really only wrapped up in the very last episode during hannibal and will's cliff fall.
what i'm stating is obvious to an extent. yes, will is an extremely indecisive character and both good and evil exist within him in equal measure. yes, defining will using extremes defeats the purpose of a contradictory and multifaceted character such as himself. this is true for several and i'd argue most characters in media. however i just find it funny that most debates about will's moral values are centered around whether he was "dark" or evil from the beginning. and i'm like, the amount of darkness or capacity for violence that will had didn't change much between seasons 1 and 3? yes, hannibal's manipulations played a HUGE role in will's Becoming, so to speak, but these manipulations were more in regards to helping will see and accept his true self versus developing or furthering his taste for violence.
so imo will was all at once evil and good, immoral and righteous, empathetic and cruel. and the cliff fall at the end of WOTL isn't will tipping his views all to one side, or choosing to solely indulge in evil, it's him accepting EVERY part of himself, no matter how dark they are.
also i use the term "evil" loosely and i could get into different explorations of how that word is defined and how it applies to hannibal but i wont bc im tired
anyways, in conclusion this bitch gotta die lowkey
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