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Stop perisex trans intersexism Lateral ableism sucks Radfeminism is a poison Free Palestine

[intersex-cpunk-wolfdog]

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You can call me Wolf here - any pronouns

This is my blog for any and all activism—from current events to everyday complaints about bigotry I face.

20s. Intersex. Queer. Disabled. MSN. Demiverbal. PASIC.

Original posts tagged #wolfs words, asks #wolfs answers.

Vetted fundraisers for Palestinians are tagged #Palestinian fundraisers. If everyone donated even a dollar, so many lives could be saved. Please consider doing so!

I am always open to answering any sort of good faith question I have the experience to answer, no matter how ‘dumb’ or even ignorant you might feel it is. As long as you show a willingness to listen, you can ask anything.

BYF

This blog will be political.

Free Palestine. Don’t forget about Ukraine, Congo, or Sudan.

Anti TMA/TME, transandrophobia is real, ACAB, anti-border, BLM, socialist, landback, eat the rich, vote, psych critical, pro-informed-self-diagnosis, cpunk, mad pride, neurodiversity-informed.

I only get involved in discourse if it actually impacts people (i.e., stuff like intersex issues in the trans community, lateral ableism discourse). I stay out of stuff like syscourse, flag discourse, shipcourse, etc.

I use the term transandromisogyny to describe my experiences with the intersections of transandrophobia and transmisogyny as a transfemmasc person.

More on who I am and my experiences, for the curious

Autism, ADHD, PD traits, CPTSD, OSDD-1b, a deformity, a chronic RSI. Mobility and disability aid user. Medically neglected and traumatised as a child despite obvious and significant support needs.

White American living in Canada. Supported by parents. Raised also by my aunt with her (Mexican) culture. Puedo hablar español! Pero estoy un poquito fuera de práctica, perdóname.

Queer. Intersex salmacian cistransfemmasc. I wrote a post about my experiences as an intersex transfemmasc, for any curious or wondering if they are also both. Bigenderflux binary wo/man. Nebularomantic lovequeer alloaro gay (men).

[shardsofglassheart]

I think the hardest part about addressing child abuse is getting people to acknowledge, not just intellectually but actually responding accordingly, is that the biggest threat to children, the biggest risk of abuse, is family and parents.

it is of course most often parents who are crowing about needing to protect children (often against far smaller threats than family), and pointing out that they are, statistically, the biggest threat to their kids is not gonna be received well.

[discoursedrome]

tbh I feel like most of society’s rhetoric around “protecting children” comes from the same place as deep-patriarchy rhetoric on “protecting women”, where the idea is that they’re sacred and valuable but also treated essentially as property, and the the desire to protect them is largely experienced as a desire to ensure that those property rights are sacrosanct

[lloydthevoid]

Wow thats it

[abearinthewoods]

Speaking as a trans man: I think "transmisandry" is a counterproductive term more often than not. 99% of the time whats being described is just misandry and the trans- prefix is unnecessary. Not to say that there are absolutely no valid uses of the term, but trans men need to realize that most of the bigotry they experience is a result of being men. If more trans men woke up to this fact and stood in solidarity with all men, we could make real social progress on issues such as homelessness, lack of domestic violence shelters, physical and sexual violence by women, etc.

Hope this doesn't come across as combative or contrarian, just giving my two cents. I agree with most of what you say and I appreciate what you do.

I agree with the basic idea that a lot transphobia can be tied to androphobia (a form of misandry), and sometimes trans men can think they are being treated like a trans man but they are just being treated like a man. I just disagree with arguing that point to people talking about their experiences. Especially those already getting it from the other side.

And when you think about it, Like ya, (some) queer spaces being anti-masc is misandry stemming from androphobia, but to a trans man feeling like his safe space turned on him, his transness does contribute to how he experiences that misandry, that androphobia. in the context of the space where one presumes they can go to escape hate, it can amplify the hurt and feelings of aloneness to receive it. Turns it into feelings of betrayal. This unique side of it is worthy of recognition on its own right.

[intersex-cpunk-wolfdog]

My issue with this take is the use of misandry for all men. I don’t think cishet, white, abled, well-off, etc. experience anything oppressive enough to be labeled something like “misandry” or androphobia. IMO androphobia only appears at the intersection of other minorities (how Black men are at risk for police violence, how disabled men are degendered and treated horribly because they can’t meet the expectation that men are supposed to provide for others, how Asian men are degendered and sexualised, how gay men are sexualised and seen as dangerous, etc.).

A man who is experiencing negative treatment solely on the axis of being a man (and not because it is intersecting with another of his experiences) isn’t experiencing androphobia, he’s experiencing toxic masculinity and/or oppositional sexism. Which are still bad things we should aim to get rid of! But I really don’t think it helps to use a term that does imply some level of oppression considering how privileged the patriarchy makes men (that it sees as men, on axes that don’t intersect with other minority statuses).

I also think transandrophobia is relatively unique from androphobia, if only because trans men and mascs are not actually seen as men by the vast majority of society. For example, when a trans man is beat for being in a women’s toilet, it’s not because people see him as a man; it’s because they see him as a dangerous gender deviant. And when a trans man tries to talk about how he was abused and raped and people tell him to, “shut up and make room for women,” and that, “that is what being a man is,” and he’s not allowed to complain, those people don’t have to actually view him as a man to say those things. They only have to view him as somebody who they feel betrayed them for not being a woman. And when I see people talk about how trans “AFABs” are, “dramatic and hysterical…” that’s obviously not because they’re being viewed as men. Transandrophbia is distinct from androphobia because transandrophobia does not necessitate being seen as a man. Somebody experiencing androphobia will likely be given (comparatively to women of the same attributes) some privileges under the patriarchy than trans men aren’t (more representation in medical research, a lower chance of experiencing domestic and sexual violence, more representation of their experiences in media, their voices being more likely to be heard) because they are actually seen as men on a systemic level and trans men… aren’t!

Transandrophobia also, imo, includes instances of misogyny and even ableism and sanism (because trans people are seen as mentally deficient).

And it makes sense for a trans man to call a lot of (or maybe even all of) the androphobia he experiences transandrophobia, because even if it is not done with the knowledge the individual is trans, it still disproportionately impacts them over cis men. Trans men being denied support for domestic and sexual abuse victims because they’re men is a far bigger issue than it is for cis men; over 50% of trans men experience those things at one point or another, and only around 30% of cis men do. Trans men are also far more likely to be trapped in domestic abuse situations. The absence of support for (trans) male victims is therefore a form of transandrophobia, even if it’s done only on the basis that they are men. It is still directly encouraging the erasure and abuse of trans men specifically.

[abearinthewoods]

IMO androphobia only appears at the intersection of other minorities (how Black men are at risk for police violence)

Go look into that then.

Here, let me do it for you:

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), a peer reviewed journal of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) - an authoritative

3 factors will, each on their own*, increase your chance for police violence.

Non-White-Race

Low income level

and can you guess the 3rd?

Being male is a higher factor for police violence then being a poc.

* the 3 things will also intersect, and in the case of black people and income level, cascade, to make it worse.

Anywho, I think this does enough to dispell the entire notion that their post should be taken seriously. oh wait, one more thing:

I don’t think cishet, white, abled, well-off, etc. experience anything oppressive enough to be labeled something like “misandry” or androphobia

Its interesting that you say this even thou you end your post pointing to things you say trans men face for being men, not trans men, that can be called transandrophobia. its that you think this is your call to make.

[intersex-cpunk-wolfdog]

… Yes, being male is a higher factor when combined with intersecting minority status, which was exactly my point. It’s not just being male, it’s being male AND being poor, or Black, or disabled, etc.

I would also like to point out that, in the case of wealthy white men, part of the reason they’re most likely to face police violence is because they’re seen as more capable. Part of male privilege is being seen as more capable, being seen as somebody who isn’t weak and inept.

Only in the intersection between other minority statuses (ex. Blackness or class) does maleness intersect further to become its own type of oppression.

Lastly, the erasure of an issue that disproportionately impacts trans men is absolutely transandrophobia, even if it is applicable to lower extents to cis men.

[sodomit]

The drastic separation between social positions of transfems and transmascs is a theoretical invention of writers who spoke to very few transmascs and tried to fill the gap by assumptions that stem from the "opposite gender" crap.

"Transmasculine transition is respected in the society because cis people see becoming a man as stepping up" is one of the most hilarious and sad examples of that, but there's also "coming out as a trans man leads to less sexual objectification" and "trans men are simultaneously respected more because they're men and protected more because they're afab".

None of it is real. This is just a calculated inverse of what transfems go through. We should abandon this framework for the sake of something that's actually rooted in reality.

[venice-1987]

For anyone wondering, the correct statements would be

"Transmasculine transition is not repected in society because cis people see "women" trying to forcefully occupy a position of privilege where they are not, and never have been, welcomed"

"Coming out as a trans man does not protect from sexual objectification, and adds a new complicated relationship with how society welcomes you into discussions of reproductive justice, sexuality, and pregnancy. Plus, you're a porn catrgory now"

And

"Trans men are simultaneously seen as failed men, and as failed women, and are neither respected nor protected."

[abearinthewoods]

Speaking as a trans man: I think "transmisandry" is a counterproductive term more often than not. 99% of the time whats being described is just misandry and the trans- prefix is unnecessary. Not to say that there are absolutely no valid uses of the term, but trans men need to realize that most of the bigotry they experience is a result of being men. If more trans men woke up to this fact and stood in solidarity with all men, we could make real social progress on issues such as homelessness, lack of domestic violence shelters, physical and sexual violence by women, etc.

Hope this doesn't come across as combative or contrarian, just giving my two cents. I agree with most of what you say and I appreciate what you do.

I agree with the basic idea that a lot transphobia can be tied to androphobia (a form of misandry), and sometimes trans men can think they are being treated like a trans man but they are just being treated like a man. I just disagree with arguing that point to people talking about their experiences. Especially those already getting it from the other side.

And when you think about it, Like ya, (some) queer spaces being anti-masc is misandry stemming from androphobia, but to a trans man feeling like his safe space turned on him, his transness does contribute to how he experiences that misandry, that androphobia. in the context of the space where one presumes they can go to escape hate, it can amplify the hurt and feelings of aloneness to receive it. Turns it into feelings of betrayal. This unique side of it is worthy of recognition on its own right.

[intersex-cpunk-wolfdog]

My issue with this take is the use of misandry for all men. I don’t think cishet, white, abled, well-off, etc. experience anything oppressive enough to be labeled something like “misandry” or androphobia. IMO androphobia only appears at the intersection of other minorities (how Black men are at risk for police violence, how disabled men are degendered and treated horribly because they can’t meet the expectation that men are supposed to provide for others, how Asian men are degendered and sexualised, how gay men are sexualised and seen as dangerous, etc.).

A man who is experiencing negative treatment solely on the axis of being a man (and not because it is intersecting with another of his experiences) isn’t experiencing androphobia, he’s experiencing toxic masculinity and/or oppositional sexism. Which are still bad things we should aim to get rid of! But I really don’t think it helps to use a term that does imply some level of oppression considering how privileged the patriarchy makes men (that it sees as men, on axes that don’t intersect with other minority statuses).

I also think transandrophobia is relatively unique from androphobia, if only because trans men and mascs are not actually seen as men by the vast majority of society. For example, when a trans man is beat for being in a women’s toilet, it’s not because people see him as a man; it’s because they see him as a dangerous gender deviant. And when a trans man tries to talk about how he was abused and raped and people tell him to, “shut up and make room for women,” and that, “that is what being a man is,” and he’s not allowed to complain, those people don’t have to actually view him as a man to say those things. They only have to view him as somebody who they feel betrayed them for not being a woman. And when I see people talk about how trans “AFABs” are, “dramatic and hysterical…” that’s obviously not because they’re being viewed as men. Transandrophbia is distinct from androphobia because transandrophobia does not necessitate being seen as a man. Somebody experiencing androphobia will likely be given (comparatively to women of the same attributes) some privileges under the patriarchy than trans men aren’t (more representation in medical research, a lower chance of experiencing domestic and sexual violence, more representation of their experiences in media, their voices being more likely to be heard) because they are actually seen as men on a systemic level and trans men… aren’t!

Transandrophobia also, imo, includes instances of misogyny and even ableism and sanism (because trans people are seen as mentally deficient).

And it makes sense for a trans man to call a lot of (or maybe even all of) the androphobia he experiences transandrophobia, because even if it is not done with the knowledge the individual is trans, it still disproportionately impacts them over cis men. Trans men being denied support for domestic and sexual abuse victims because they’re men is a far bigger issue than it is for cis men; over 50% of trans men experience those things at one point or another, and only around 30% of cis men do. Trans men are also far more likely to be trapped in domestic abuse situations. The absence of support for (trans) male victims is therefore a form of transandrophobia, even if it’s done only on the basis that they are men. It is still directly encouraging the erasure and abuse of trans men specifically.

[luxiomahariel]

"we're a community" until men describe their experiences in a way that parallels womens experiences, then its "cultural appropriation"

(this is about the term 'achillean', the vincian flag, and also about the term 'transandrophobia')

[baeddel-doc]

I was actually going to a silly post of all the things they've accused of us stealing (catboys, t4t and femboys) and end it with "they're gonna accuse us of stealing being trans"

And no. That already happened.

[luxiomahariel]

[baeddel-doc]

Oh it goes deeper than that. She constantly retweets that one person that says all trans men are mutilated women. And said trans men's existence is a "problem." And this just honestly pisses me off:

At least she's one word off of "transandrophobia truther" lmao. I think insinuating an entire group of people are zionists just makes you sound antisemitic, doesn't matter if you're pro or anti zionism it just sounds like you're calling them "da evil pooner jewz!!!11"

[intersexcat-tboy]

Oh oh can I add to these

This was asked for in comments so I thought I'd include it too ^

[luxiomahariel]

guess ill also throw the blahaj shit into the mix lol

[intersex-cpunk-wolfdog]

I’ve spoken to transfems who have gotten top surgery. I am a transfemmasc who has gotten top surgery. Getting top surgery as a transfem is not “conversion therapy” and it is honestly, in my opinion, transmisogynistic and exorsexist to say so. Top surgery as a transfem person does not somehow make you more cis/less trans/“convert” you.

Maybe let’s just stop the stupid infighting and love each other? Cis people hate us enough already.

[transfemme-shelterdog]

are you actually mtf? how many transfem friends do you have irl? why is so much of your activism focused on trans men rather than trans women?

Am I seriously getting poser checked for being... trans?

Yes, I am MtF, I've got bottles of Spiro, Prog, and vials of Estrogen suspended in Sesame Seed Oil in my kitchen at this very moment. Hell, I've even got an entire sharps container filled with used needles for both E and T (my husband shares my sharps container on occasion).

As for IRL transfem friends? There's a whole group of 8 of us (7 including me) that play MTG together on Saturday nights, at my LGS. Sure, I could have more, but I live in a very rural/conservative area, and don't really have many social outlets that are for explicitly trans women.

I do have a shit load of trans women and men who I am friends with online though, which tbh is where most trans women know each other from (trans people in general tbh)

As for why I speak up more about trans men than trans women? Well, trans men get way too much shit by both the trans, and cis community simply for being trans. Just look at the amount of transandrophobes that are trans women these days. Not to mention that trans men not only are being affected by anti trans laws, but also laws being pushed to abolish female rights in general (anti abortion measures affect trans men more than trans women, as they're the ones who have to carry the fetus should they ever be raped for being trans men, a thing that very much is an issue due to 'corrective rape' that so many trans men are subjected to). My husband, yes my husband, who I married legally, is a trans man, and I love him more than anything else in this world. So when I see how much shit his community gets, it really bothers me and puts a fire under my ass to want to speak up and out against trans men/masc people's oppression. Because I love him, and trans men are deserving of love and support. It's better that they hear it from another trans person, I feel. Even if I am on the other side of the track when it comes to my transition.

[discombobulated-mermaid]

"Autism isn't a disability" you tell me as my family are all considered carers for me,

"Autism isn't a disability" you tell me as i receive disability benefits for my autism

"Autism isn't a disability" you tell me as i have special needs so severe i cant even attend school

"Autism isn't a disability" you tell me as i am nonverbal

"Autism isn't a disability" you tell me as i can't regularly dress, bath, do grooming tasks without help or at all

"Autism isn't a disability" you tell me after I've spent months of my life requiring 24/7 1-1 supervision

"Autism isn't a disability" you tell me as i am housebound

"Autism isn't a disability" you tell me as i am officially diagnosed with nothing other than autism.

Maybe autism is a disability, and maybe you just don't want to accept you are disabled because of the stigma around disability? All autistic people are significantly impaired in areas of functioning, even if that makes you uncomfortable, that is the truth. And maybe you should spent 1 minute to go and read the diagnostic criteria for autism. That all autistic people meet.

Autism is a disability, and when you advocate that it's not, you are making real world harm, especially for people with substantial support needs.

They don't give disability services to non disabled people, so please, when your advocacy includes limiting services for those of us who need them the most, is it advocacy or are you just harming people who are already in positions that they can't advocate and be as loud as you.

[luxiomahariel]

i think too many people have bought into the terf talking points that trans men/mascs transition to "escape oppression" and "become oppressors"

[resisteverything]

FR some people think forcemasc is socially acceptable because society loves men so much. Have none of these people heard of the book irreversible damage? Forcemasc is the kind of fetish the entire UK would be fearmongering about like it's the plague if they knew what it was. Any attempt to deny this is just denying reality.

[hellish-undeath]

the world is a better place with trans women in it

[hellish-undeath]

this post is making the rounds again and people continually add on "and nonbinary people too, and trans men!" and let me be very blunt i absolutely agree! my life has been made better by the trans men and nonbinary people in it, in a way i couldn't articulate with words.

tho to also be very blunt this post escaped it's initial purpose and meaning (in very good and sorta annoying ways). the original post was in response to seeing a series of polls from a popular polling blog where users were asked if they were happy to see someone figuring out they were trans, with a different poll about trans men, transmascs, trans women, transfems, agender, and nonbinary people. out of all the polls the trans woman poll (followed closely by the transfem poll) were mostly "indifferent" or "no" responses when compared to every other poll.

And to be honest I just really needed every trans woman to know that they make the world a better place just by being here with us.

[agendercryptidlev-deactivated20]

Saying trans men have male privilege "because they're men" is actually in itself cissexism, it is based on the assumption that because cis men have male privilege that having male privilege is a requirement to being a man. Trans men are men but that doesn't mean they're rewarded for their gender identity by society, because trans identity is never awarded under the patriarchy.

[imtrying-ok]

I think the reason a lot of trans men say they "used to be women/girls" as opposed to the small amount of trans women who do the inverse is because people can just not comprehend the idea that there are men that face misogyny. So either you say you've always been a man (and you've never been affected by misogyny), or you used to be a girl (and the misogyny you faced was real).

[intersex-cpunk-wolfdog]

I honestly think it’s also about anti-masculinity, especially given how this happens so much in queer spaces specifically.

For trans women, saying they used to be a man/boy introduces a connection between them and the concept of man/boy, which is seen as somehow tainting. For trans men, saying they used to be a woman/girl can sometimes (in certain spaces) be seen as some sort of positive: “he’s a gross evil harmful man (negative), but at least he used to be a pure soft girl (positive)!”

This is why trans women who ARE connected to manhood and/or masculinity (butch and/or masc trans women, trans women who are/used to be male/men, bigender transfems, transfemmascs) are kinda seen as weird and ostracised.

Bc men are seen by both misogynists and radfems as gross and dirty, connection to manhood implies the individual is gross and dirty. But women are seen as pure and clean, so connection to womanhood implies the individual is… pure and clean.

TL;DR, I feel like this is just further enforcement of gender norms (men gross women clean) and radfem ideology (men are perpetrators women are victims) in action.

[venusssssssssss]

legit so annoyed about the way the corporate media wants to paint those women waiting outside the court as crazy and as only being there because Luigi is hot. I looked up pictures of them outside the court and they all held signs and were there to send a message: "health over wealth", "denial of medical care = violence", "murder for profit = terrorism", "the United States healthcare stole my livelihood", "insurance lobbyists line politicians' pockets", "healthcare reform NOW". Yeah, they're there because he's hot for sure. Also, there were a lot of men as well but hey, that's not helping the narrative right?

[intersex-cpunk-wolfdog]

There’s definitely something to be said about the transmisogyny involved in presenting your gender as a transfem. If you’re transfem, you have to be putting in 110% effort constantly. If you don’t, you’re either not trans enough, not woman enough, or, more likely, both. There is of course the general misogynist expectation to put in effort to perform femininity, but there is an additional layer—we’re expected to “make up” for any masculine characteristics we have, instead of being allowed to exist in our own skin. The idea that trans women are better at femininity than cis women is an extension of this transmisogynistic stereotype. Trans women are not any “better” or “worse” at femininity than cis women.

And while transmascs don’t have it easy either when it comes to passing, I definitely think there is a difference in how it’s approached for transfems vs transmascs.* For transmascs it’s very focused on passing by trying to emulate normatively “male” features (i.e. light no-makeup look contouring), but for transfems there’s this added layer of presentation (like there is for all women): on top of doing feminine contour, shaving in the morning and covering shadow, you also have to do an eyeshadow look and toss on some lip product. And make sure to wear a skirt or dress! It makes it very difficult to find the energy to present fem even when I am a woman.

*I’m coming at this from the perspective of an intersex transfemmasc who had mixed sex characteristics pre-transition, too, so it’s possible that I don’t experience the same pressure to pass that other transmascs who have more normatively “female” characteristics do. Feel free to add your experience if you want!

[eternal-echoes]

“"Intersex" is an umbrella term sometimes used to include more than forty different kinds of disorders of sexual development (DSDs). Most people who experience one of these conditions do not identify as trans. In fact, some resent being used to promote transgender ideology and being lumped into the LGBTIA category. After all, intersex conditions are not a reflection of a person's sense of identity or sexual orientation. Those are different issues altogether, and it's a leap in logic to believe that variations in biology support the idea that a person can be something other than his or her sex. Moreover, nearly all people who identify as trans were born with a biological sex that is anything but ambiguous, and this is precisely what those with gender dysphoria express dysphoric feelings about.”

-Jason Evert, Male, Female, or Other: A Catholic Guide to Understanding Gender

—

For more recommended resources on gender dysphoria, click here.

[intersex-cpunk-wolfdog]

This is a really dumb post considering I have had to transition to live as both male and female. Growing up I was not truly allowed to be either gender. I had girls bully me for being too masculine to be a girl and boys bully me for being too feminine to be a boy. I have taken both E & T HRT, and, without any form of HRT, my body starts to freak out and I get really bad abdominal cramps. I was born with ambiguous genitalia. No matter if I was a man or a woman, or both as it may happen, I had to transition into it. Physically and socially.

[drizzledrawings]

I love when platonic love and romantic love is so blurred that it doesn’t even matter anymore. All that matters is the devotion that’s there, the unwavering devotion

[luxiomahariel]

good review on shinigami eyes tbh