So I just finished Oro's POV from the new Duelling Crowns book, and I have thoughts -- actually, rants -- about how Oro is not the main love interest, because this man is literally a walking green flag.
You don't understand -- I literally picked up this series when in my shadow-daddy era, ready to be a Grim girly with all the publicity this series got that I got absolutely whiplashed when I found out that Oro was not only not the main love interest, but he is also not the favoured love interest. (I did not know the names of the love interests, only brief outlines of the plot; and idk that there were 2 LIs, I just thought that the second ship was with some kind of secondary character that people preferred over the main. I do not like spoilers)
Anyway, to right this injustice of Oro being constantly sidelined (dude was in like 20% of book 3 and somehow still carried the whole plot. Insanity -- even coming from an Oro stan), I have decided to compile an argument on why I believe, undoubtedly, that Oro is the better love interest:
Spoilers below, obviously.
The slowburn is real. There are so many parallels, so many connections and build-up in Oro and Isla's story. a) Her shooting and flicking his crown only for him to give it to her at the end of Book 1. b) Him saving her when she fell of her balcony and healing her head, then her saving him when he got exhausted and fell, dragging him into a lake so that he can heal himself. c) Him saving her from the vines and refusing to leave her to deal with the thorns alone, then her saving him when he was injured and bringing him into a cave and staying with him until the sun went down. d) Him hating his gilding powers then her getting him to use it on her dress, and then having their symbol be a gilded golden rose. e) Her looking at her wedding gown's gloves and immediately thinking about when she was shooting at Oro during one of their early encounters. The whole build-up in Book 1, when they slowly learned to trust one another and work together, and then them being so domestic in Book 2, was just pure endgame energy. You can really see the journey these 2 people took, from skeptical enemies to actual lovers. Meanwhile, Grim was just so handsy and touchy the entire time. I mean, I get that they were together for a whole year prior, but they aren't anymore (wholy his fault) so why does he keep trying to grab her whenever he is an arm's length from her? Also, everytime I try to read Isla's flashbacks in Book 2, it is just overrun with scenes of kissing and touching. Like, that scene in the hot air balloon could've been sweet, but then BAM, his hands are on her and they are in his room again. Everytime Grim begs Isla to "remember our love", I have to squint HARD at the pages because where is the love? I can't find it. *picks up megaphone* will the love please identify yourself in this room? Is it in the room with us? All I see are his hands and lips on her. That's not love, babe, that's lust in a trenchcoat waving candy at your horny ass. I read someone mention before that Isla was basically a lonely, touch-starved barely-adult when she left her room and "fell in love" with the first hot guy she saw and there really is no disputing that claim. But, please, dear Grim-stan reader, try.
Boundaries exist. In all my years of reading, there are few fictional men with Oro's levels of boundaries. I mean, Isla literally threw herself at him several times, but he never faltered, never gave in to his pants, and always took care of her. Remember when Isla wanted to sleep with Oro because she was plagued by dreams of Grim? She was down to her underwear, ready to replace the thoughts of Grim with thoughts of Oro instead. Yet Oro took a step back. He knew that this should not be the way their sex goes, that it should not be a blanket to cover something, that she was hurting and desperate, so he got on his knees and asked her what was wrong. Then he gave her his room because Grim has never been there, and she would not think of him when she was there. Oro could've just taken off his pants and went with her plan -- I bet Grim would've done that -- but Oro would not take advantage of her when she was down. Instead, he went to find out what was really the problem and solved it. He really went "let's unpack your crisis, not your clothes". Another example is when Oro and Isla were in that cave in the desert during the sand storm. Again, Isla got naked in front of him and tried to advance on him. Yet Oro used his limited powers to use Moonling magic to cool her down and get her to sleep, preserve her strength. His morals are literally through the roof and he would never give in to either of their desires when he knows that it is not right, not how their story should go.
He knows her. As mentioned, he was in like 20% of Book 3. He flew across the world to check on her in the middle of the book, then he was let in on the plan and action in the last few chapters. He was waiting with Grim for Isla to appear with Lark, but it was taking too long, and he suggested to go to her. Grim disagreed and told him Isla's plan. And. He. Was. Like. Wtf? Ain't. No. Way. In the 4 pages that is his POV, dude heard the plan, and immediately went "that's the plan?? That's a horrible plan. She must have another plan." And he was right. I cannot stress enough that Oro literally figured Isla's actual plan in seconds after he heard the BS that Isla fed Grim. I mean, Grim was literally around the entire time when Isla was concocting her plan and he did not think anything was amiss. Bro thought that he was so important that he did not realise that Isla already had everything she needed (with Oro's power) to open a portal elsewhere. Grim can spend a whole year and then some learning about Isla's favourite foods and whatnot, but it takes true connection to immediately hear something and know what she was actually thinking. Grim knows facts about Isla, but Oro knows Isla.
He would give up the world for her. One line that stood out to me from Oro's POV in Duelling Crowns is when the castle was in peril and he knew that Isla could not be the one responsible for it as she would never (willingly) do something that hurt innocent people. (I'm looking at you, Grim, person who started an entire war for Isla when she was just living happily in Lightlark. Jealous bitch. It wasn't as if she was kidnapped against her will when she stayed at Lightlark; but one can argue that she went against her will with Grim at the end of Book 2 just so that he would stop the whole stupid-ass war.) Yet, Oro was willing to give it all up for Isla when he refused to kill Grim to save his land, even when Isla was screaming at him to do it, because he chose her life over Lightlark's. I mean, they were this close to winning, this close to ending the war, this close to killing Grim -- but he could not do it, because killing Grim would mean killing Isla (literally the only romantic thing that Grim has done). Another -- less dramatic -- example is when Oro lets Isla take the heart of Lightlark. I mean, he literally entrusted the life of his island and his people to her. He thought that the Heart was what first spun the curses and he trusted her to use it's power for good. He put his island's fate into her hands.
He never lied to her. Do I even need to bring up how Grim a) stole Isla's memories against her will. b) betrayed her by working with Aurora/Celeste. c) kept secret of all that he knew about her past and father. d) gave her a forever binding marriage necklace without even telling her what it was. e) kept her guardians in his castle without telling her, even when he knew that they basically kidnapped and silenced her since young -- something he can definitely relate to as his own father was the same, just a lot more homicidal. f) (again) started a whole war to claim her back, killing thousands when he knew she would never want that. Meanwhile, Oro's only offence was not telling her about Lark -- but I would argue that this is also Grim's offence, and he kept it from her longer since he knew her longer. Oro has been nothing but truthful to her, telling her his plans and his secrets.
He protects her. One scene that gets me was when Isla went to Wild Isle, and used her emotions to fuel her powers to grow the plants there to trap Nightshade soldiers during the war. You know, the ability that would slowly kill her the more that she used it? The ability that Grim taught her? When Oro first found out that Isla was draining herself, he immediately forbade it and told her that losing her was not worth it, that they would find another way. But she was desperate, so she went back, and did it again. And what did Oro do? He found her, carried her back to the castle, and healed her. He didn’t scold her when she was down. He didn't berate her with I-told-you-sos when she became so drained that she was wavering between life and death. Oro had every right to be pissed and disappointed in her, yet he never lashed out, and just gently healed and took care of her, held her when she cried, when she realised her own mistake in using such power.
Their powers, together, are whole. Oro has Sunling, Moonling, Skyling, and Starling powers. Isla has Wildling and Nightshade -- and newly acquired Starling -- powers. That is literally all the powers that exist (that we know of, at least as of book 3). When Isla was saying that she, Oro, and Grim needed to work together to open the portal, I was literally screaming "No, you don't!". Isla and Oro are enough. They have everything they need when together. They complete each other. Periodt.
She hates the cold. There was this scene in Book 3 when Grim takes Isla to somewhere after their wedding, and she was shocked that she never knew that the place existed. And his response? "I thought we've established that you hate the cold." (This might not be verbatim, but the idea is there) Like. Bruh. That is not an excuse to just not show her things??? Meanwhile Oro, Sunling, is always warm. She will never be cold when she is with him. She will also not overheat with him too, like (again) when they went to that desert on sun isle and he used his limited strength to Moonling ice her to cool down. He literally warms her inside and out.
Sidenote, their metaphor is cooler and tangible. "We are infinite"??? What is that?? That's so vague. What does that even mean? Meanwhile, Oro compares them to the Forever Flame. You know, the fire that has been burning since the creation of Lightlark and will remain burning forevermore? The very real flame that has burned through disasters and withstood wars, just like Oro and Isla in Books 1 and 2? Alexa, play "Burn for you" from the Unofficial Bridgerton Musical by Barlow and Bear.
Lynx likes Oro, too, and dislikes Grim.
Need I go on? Oro is clearly the only choice here. As mentioned, I really did try to like Grim, and I literally went into the series ready to fall for Grim. But it did not happen that way. And that should say something in and of itself.
Omfg so many good points brought up here. I myself also lean more towards the Oro side of the leads, but I just finished reading the dueling crowns novellas as well, and am kind of high off of Grim’s pov. So I will just be using op’s post to kind of just add a few of my own thoughts
First of all, totally agree that Oro is an entire field of green flags, if not the forest itself. And I think what gives him such upstanding morals is how he was able to be raised — with a loving mother and friends surrounding him. A support system, people to teach him how to be a king who understands his people. He understands and can empathize with people who are completely different from him, which is why, at the core, I also believe that he “knows” Isla better than Grim does. In an objective sense.
Grim, who was raised in cruelty and isolation, would never be able to treat Isla like a complete human as his partner. Ofc he loves her, and he feels and expresses love in a totally different way, probably bc he has no idea how else to do it. He can only obsess over her alone in his head, without any support system or outlet to teach him how to treat a woman. Bc his kingdom doesn’t expect him to have a partner, so why would they teach him how to treat others? He should be the almighty one whose word is law, whose life is duty only. The only thing close to friendship he’s known is Oro during those short twenty years he was on Lightlark before the curses were spun. And even then, he lost it in an instant
I do empathize a lot with how he fell in love with Isla, simply bc he’s never had an opportunity to feel anything warm or loving or nurturing. So ofc he would latch onto the first woman who was different from all the cold detachment he’s been surrounded by his entire life. Centuries of it. And the “we are infinite” aspect of it does feel quite significant after reading his perspective from childhood to their marriage. And quite honestly, I really enjoyed seeing an old, emo, jaded man go through all of the stages of grief and love and pathetic groveling and change to the point of upending his entire life. It was how a man is supposed to yearn. To the point of pain and insanity!!
All that being said though, I do still believe that his choices thereafter are incredibly selfish. He admits himself that he was going to be selfish in regards to her in every possible way. Taking her memories, working with Aurora, withholding the truth countless times, the unremovable necklace without consent/knowledge, and STILL not being able to hold himself back from her after making those choices and hoping to work his way back into her good graces… All of that is entirely delusional of him. And yet, it is only reflective of what he knows/has to interpret for himself as how to navigate love. (It’s not like he’s ever seen it anywhere else)
In a lot of ways, he’s still so young and foolish because he never developed those pivotal relationships with people in order to become a rounded out human himself. And that’s why, even though I do like him and he’s clearly very favored by the author in this story, he is objectively not the better choice of the two male leads.
Ironically though, I guess with how this is going (I have not yet read crowntide), despite how Oro is the clear pick on paper, is fully fleshed out, has earned his place in her heart, actively works to help make her better, and is willing to take all the time she needs even while choosing her over his people and land, sometimes you can’t help the way your heart reaches towards another. Isla may caught between the two, but to me, in reading the author’s narrative, it seems that the painful choice may be to choose Grim in the end. (If this prophecy thing still ends up happening)
But who knows, she might end up surprising us in crowntide 🤷🏻♀️ there’ve been all kinds of loopholes and plot twists that led us here. Who’s to say we Oro lovers won’t also get what we want?
I'll try to work on the review asap, I have no idea how long it'll be. On one hand, no need to recap as much lore/plot as I usually do. On the other hand, holy shit. The repetition. The character assassination. The long rambling monologues. The kissing. The repetition. The misogyny.
I especially return to... if you are a legitimate fan of these books, and a legitimate Oro Girlie (as Aster appears to suggest exist and suggests she cares about)..... Imagine. You're gonna read GRIM too. The difference between these two and their relationship with Isla is comedically vast. The way they are treated is ridiculous.
Like. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Wonder who the favourite is. Wonder who will live and who will die. Wonder whose relationship is better, stronger, truer, in every way. Who ends with a wedding and affirmation of eternal unending infinite love and union through all of existence... And who ends with a plea to the unnamed gods to let Isla live, and if so, he will be happy no matter what to die or see her with someone else, because her existence is the only perfect true thing in the universe.
Hm. I wonder. I wonder who the author cares about. I wonder.
These novellas were sold as "Dueling crowns". Competing love interests. Equals, even in terms of the book social edition being doubled sided so you can read either one first. The book was announced as like, being for both grim and Oro fans.
If you are a fan of Oro and this series I'm so so so so sorry but Alex Aster just lied to you again. Holy shit.
So I just finished Oro's POV from the new Duelling Crowns book, and I have thoughts -- actually, rants -- about how Oro is not the main love interest, because this man is literally a walking green flag.
You don't understand -- I literally picked up this series when in my shadow-daddy era, ready to be a Grim girly with all the publicity this series got that I got absolutely whiplashed when I found out that Oro was not only not the main love interest, but he is also not the favoured love interest. (I did not know the names of the love interests, only brief outlines of the plot; and idk that there were 2 LIs, I just thought that the second ship was with some kind of secondary character that people preferred over the main. I do not like spoilers)
Anyway, to right this injustice of Oro being constantly sidelined (dude was in like 20% of book 3 and somehow still carried the whole plot. Insanity -- even coming from an Oro stan), I have decided to compile an argument on why I believe, undoubtedly, that Oro is the better love interest:
Spoilers below, obviously.
The slowburn is real. There are so many parallels, so many connections and build-up in Oro and Isla's story. a) Her shooting and flicking his crown only for him to give it to her at the end of Book 1. b) Him saving her when she fell of her balcony and healing her head, then her saving him when he got exhausted and fell, dragging him into a lake so that he can heal himself. c) Him saving her from the vines and refusing to leave her to deal with the thorns alone, then her saving him when he was injured and bringing him into a cave and staying with him until the sun went down. d) Him hating his gilding powers then her getting him to use it on her dress, and then having their symbol be a gilded golden rose. e) Her looking at her wedding gown's gloves and immediately thinking about when she was shooting at Oro during one of their early encounters. The whole build-up in Book 1, when they slowly learned to trust one another and work together, and then them being so domestic in Book 2, was just pure endgame energy. You can really see the journey these 2 people took, from skeptical enemies to actual lovers. Meanwhile, Grim was just so handsy and touchy the entire time. I mean, I get that they were together for a whole year prior, but they aren't anymore (wholy his fault) so why does he keep trying to grab her whenever he is an arm's length from her? Also, everytime I try to read Isla's flashbacks in Book 2, it is just overrun with scenes of kissing and touching. Like, that scene in the hot air balloon could've been sweet, but then BAM, his hands are on her and they are in his room again. Everytime Grim begs Isla to "remember our love", I have to squint HARD at the pages because where is the love? I can't find it. *picks up megaphone* will the love please identify yourself in this room? Is it in the room with us? All I see are his hands and lips on her. That's not love, babe, that's lust in a trenchcoat waving candy at your horny ass. I read someone mention before that Isla was basically a lonely, touch-starved barely-adult when she left her room and "fell in love" with the first hot guy she saw and there really is no disputing that claim. But, please, dear Grim-stan reader, try.
Boundaries exist. In all my years of reading, there are few fictional men with Oro's levels of boundaries. I mean, Isla literally threw herself at him several times, but he never faltered, never gave in to his pants, and always took care of her. Remember when Isla wanted to sleep with Oro because she was plagued by dreams of Grim? She was down to her underwear, ready to replace the thoughts of Grim with thoughts of Oro instead. Yet Oro took a step back. He knew that this should not be the way their sex goes, that it should not be a blanket to cover something, that she was hurting and desperate, so he got on his knees and asked her what was wrong. Then he gave her his room because Grim has never been there, and she would not think of him when she was there. Oro could've just taken off his pants and went with her plan -- I bet Grim would've done that -- but Oro would not take advantage of her when she was down. Instead, he went to find out what was really the problem and solved it. He really went "let's unpack your crisis, not your clothes". Another example is when Oro and Isla were in that cave in the desert during the sand storm. Again, Isla got naked in front of him and tried to advance on him. Yet Oro used his limited powers to use Moonling magic to cool her down and get her to sleep, preserve her strength. His morals are literally through the roof and he would never give in to either of their desires when he knows that it is not right, not how their story should go.
He knows her. As mentioned, he was in like 20% of Book 3. He flew across the world to check on her in the middle of the book, then he was let in on the plan and action in the last few chapters. He was waiting with Grim for Isla to appear with Lark, but it was taking too long, and he suggested to go to her. Grim disagreed and told him Isla's plan. And. He. Was. Like. Wtf? Ain't. No. Way. In the 4 pages that is his POV, dude heard the plan, and immediately went "that's the plan?? That's a horrible plan. She must have another plan." And he was right. I cannot stress enough that Oro literally figured Isla's actual plan in seconds after he heard the BS that Isla fed Grim. I mean, Grim was literally around the entire time when Isla was concocting her plan and he did not think anything was amiss. Bro thought that he was so important that he did not realise that Isla already had everything she needed (with Oro's power) to open a portal elsewhere. Grim can spend a whole year and then some learning about Isla's favourite foods and whatnot, but it takes true connection to immediately hear something and know what she was actually thinking. Grim knows facts about Isla, but Oro knows Isla.
He would give up the world for her. One line that stood out to me from Oro's POV in Duelling Crowns is when the castle was in peril and he knew that Isla could not be the one responsible for it as she would never (willingly) do something that hurt innocent people. (I'm looking at you, Grim, person who started an entire war for Isla when she was just living happily in Lightlark. Jealous bitch. It wasn't as if she was kidnapped against her will when she stayed at Lightlark; but one can argue that she went against her will with Grim at the end of Book 2 just so that he would stop the whole stupid-ass war.) Yet, Oro was willing to give it all up for Isla when he refused to kill Grim to save his land, even when Isla was screaming at him to do it, because he chose her life over Lightlark's. I mean, they were this close to winning, this close to ending the war, this close to killing Grim -- but he could not do it, because killing Grim would mean killing Isla (literally the only romantic thing that Grim has done). Another -- less dramatic -- example is when Oro lets Isla take the heart of Lightlark. I mean, he literally entrusted the life of his island and his people to her. He thought that the Heart was what first spun the curses and he trusted her to use it's power for good. He put his island's fate into her hands.
He never lied to her. Do I even need to bring up how Grim a) stole Isla's memories against her will. b) betrayed her by working with Aurora/Celeste. c) kept secret of all that he knew about her past and father. d) gave her a forever binding marriage necklace without even telling her what it was. e) kept her guardians in his castle without telling her, even when he knew that they basically kidnapped and silenced her since young -- something he can definitely relate to as his own father was the same, just a lot more homicidal. f) (again) started a whole war to claim her back, killing thousands when he knew she would never want that. Meanwhile, Oro's only offence was not telling her about Lark -- but I would argue that this is also Grim's offence, and he kept it from her longer since he knew her longer. Oro has been nothing but truthful to her, telling her his plans and his secrets.
He protects her. One scene that gets me was when Isla went to Wild Isle, and used her emotions to fuel her powers to grow the plants there to trap Nightshade soldiers during the war. You know, the ability that would slowly kill her the more that she used it? The ability that Grim taught her? When Oro first found out that Isla was draining herself, he immediately forbade it and told her that losing her was not worth it, that they would find another way. But she was desperate, so she went back, and did it again. And what did Oro do? He found her, carried her back to the castle, and healed her. He didn’t scold her when she was down. He didn't berate her with I-told-you-sos when she became so drained that she was wavering between life and death. Oro had every right to be pissed and disappointed in her, yet he never lashed out, and just gently healed and took care of her, held her when she cried, when she realised her own mistake in using such power.
Their powers, together, are whole. Oro has Sunling, Moonling, Skyling, and Starling powers. Isla has Wildling and Nightshade -- and newly acquired Starling -- powers. Those are literally all the powers that exist (that we know of, at least as of book 3). When Isla was saying that she, Oro, and Grim needed to work together to open the portal, I was literally screaming "No, you don't!". Isla and Oro are enough. They have everything they need when together. They complete each other. Periodt.
She hates the cold. There was this scene in Book 3 when Grim takes Isla to somewhere after their wedding, and she was shocked that she never knew that the place existed. And his response? "I thought we've established that you hate the cold." (This might not be verbatim, but the idea is there) Like. Bruh. That is not an excuse to just not show her things??? Meanwhile Oro, Sunling, is always warm. She will never be cold when she is with him. She will also not overheat with him too, like (again) when they went to that desert on sun isle and he used his limited strength to Moonling ice her to cool down. He literally warms her inside and out.
Sidenote, their metaphor is cooler and tangible. "We are infinite"??? What is that?? That's so vague. What does that even mean? Meanwhile, Oro compares them to the Forever Flame. You know, the fire that has been burning since the creation of Lightlark and will remain burning forevermore? The very real flame that has burned through disasters and withstood wars, just like Oro and Isla in Books 1 and 2? Alexa, play "Burn for you" from the Unofficial Bridgerton Musical by Barlow and Bear.
Lynx likes Oro, too, and dislikes Grim.
Need I go on? Oro is clearly the only choice here. As mentioned, I really did try to like Grim, and I literally went into the series ready to fall for Grim. But it did not happen that way. And that should say something in and of itself.
I like how Mo Guanshan’s arc in the "present" chapters revolves around small moments of growth in the face of what has been lost, and how he deals with He Tian crashing back into his life like a wrecking ball.
Guanshan's technically got what he longed for: having He Tian back. But so many years of absence have twisted that desire into a fear of He Tian actually returning to him, scared that if he 'succumbs' again to those feelings he's kept shut (inside a box), it will leave him vulnerable to being left behind again. And we know there is a precedent for this, since we already saw He Tian come back for Christmas only to seemingly leave all over again sometime later.
Until very recently Guanshan has been so cross with He Tian... And not to say he's now completely happy and comfortable with the current """""housemates"""""" situation, but he certainly seems to have mellowed out a little bit.
It feels like that's due Mo starting to understand the pain He Tian's feels when he shuts him out in order to have a veneer of control in the situation. He’s also realizing that even if He Tian's methods are VERY questionable, everything he does is legitimately for Guan Shan's well-being. It's no coincidence that we've seen some panels where Mo wistfully watches He Tian go. A self-fulfilling prophecy realized right in front him.
In the first instance, it's true that Guanshan is very much in denial about not being hurt by He Tian actually leaving when he pushes him away ("I don't wanna see you! You better not come again... I won't miss you...").
But then, look at my boy now, acknowledging that He Tian is trying to support him in his career and offering to cook him dinner, something that used to bring them together all those years ago. Drama-ass running included!
And in the latest chapter, on a slightly more humorous tone, Mo lashes out at He Tian for his antics, causing He Tian to (fake) sulk away. But immediately after, Mo takes the direct initiative to confess, making sure He Tian knows he is included when Mo said his life was going well. He looks apprehensive and worried. He's so very careful when he fesses up... He truly doesn't want any more fall outs between them.
(obligatory 'He Tian, you little freak idiot!')
Thinking about it, from the first very time we see them sleeping together in the current timeline, we catch a glimpse of said fear of He Tian leaving, even when they spent the night together:
He's scared, but we see him mature and change bit by bit (baaaaby steps) beyond his fears for He Tian. Changing, a bit like when he wanted to become a good student back in their school days to be "worthy" of being by He Tian's side.
Ah, my son(s) with abandonment issues. </3
(Will we see any attempt to address the several elephants in the room from He Tian's side now that Mo seems a bit more open to talk? Who knoooows, who knows. Pls. I'll go insane.)
I can't believe today is the last Witch Hat Monday for a while 😭
I don't want to see anyone become a brimmed hat but boy do I love designing brim hats for everyone. For Richeh I think she would look cool with her crystal ribbons forming the hat, and the scale wolf cloak would compliment it all.
Tetia is next for a hat design! I'm thinking something with clouds and either a dragon or a Brushbully ;)
The hours long painting video, HD image, and PSD file will be DMed on my Patreon
"What was it like to be loved in return?" @itsfinallybedtime - Tumblr Blog | Tumgag
