There was that bedroom that you didn’t want me to go into. That’s it. That’s where we’ll go. — Look, we don’t have to go back through it all again. We can just talk. I’ll tell you everything. I’m just begging you, don’t make us go there again.
I know this is a very wide question but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the differences between anthony's relationship with siena and his relationship with kate?
Sure. First of all we need to take into consideration Anthony's state of mind in s1. The guy had spent almost the last decade taking care of his family, his duty coming before anything else...except when it came to fullfill his duty with marriage. He wasn't ready to do that. He just wanted ONE thing in his life where he didn't feel trapped. Because having the responsabilities of all of his family members on his shoulders was EXAUSTING and he just wanted something in his life for himself and not binded by duty.
And here comes Siena. She was a way out of his responsabilities, an escape mechanism. And even better he knew in his heart he could have never married her, so eh, SAFE choice for a guy who was scared to marry for love. But what he felt for her was it truly love? Ehm, no. Don't get me wrong he did care about her, and I do believe at some point he also believed he loved her, but in reality they were both using each other. Not once he shared with her the burden he had to carry, not once he told her about his father, and she clearly didn’t understand his NEED to protect his family. They had great chemistry in bed that transformed into some feelings for each other, who both mistaken as love (expecially Anthony), but that was it.
The truth was Anthony would have never chosen her over his family. NEVER. Yes he did want to run away with her if he survived the duel with Simon, BUT the reason why he was doing that duel was BECAUSE of his family. Running away with Siena would have been a consequence of that. He never truly respected her or her feelings. He kept making promises to her and then had to take them back because his family came first. And huge points for Siena for calling out the BULLSHIT of her going to that ball with him at the end of s1. Because that was truly bullshit. Yeah, they were going to that ball together and then what? At the end of the day, he would have never married her or be with her without feeling the burden of his responsabilities. Siena knew it, we all knew it.
However the fall out with Sienna was the push he needed to make the decision to find a suitable wife. He TRIED to have something for himself, outside of his duty toward his family, and he failed miserably. He clearly was destined to be the viscount, the head of the family, to carry all these responsabilities on his shoulders, and nothing more.
And here we are at the beginning of s2. He treated the search for a wife as it was a business transaction, because for him it was. The Viscountess needed to have some requirements to be able to carry his family’s name. She needed to be perfect on paper, but also not provoking in him any kind of great display of passion. The last part wasn’t so hard, actually. I mean, he never felt truly attracted to any of these women even when he wasn’t searching for a wife. Too young, too boring, too proper. It was like they were truly a carbon copy of each other, their mothers all telling them how to act. His attraction to Siena in fact, showed us the type of women he was truly attracted to: wild, competent, intelligent, indipendent, and not afraid to speak their minds.
So he was ready to sacrifice himself once again, finding the perfect wife, but also one who could have never fell in love with. What about the woman’s feelings? Well there was no way she would have fallen for him. He was unlovable, Siena left him, hell even his own family despised him, so...yeah, NO WAY she would have loved him like his mother loved his father. The ‘Stay Away’s montage was the perfect way to showed to us where he was at this point in the story: resigned to his destiny, focused on finding the perfect wife, but also pretty much over everything. Happiness had never been his strong suit, even in s1, but in this montage we saw him worned out. He couldn’t find even a little bit of solace in his sexual encounters, because even them became more a routine than a way to find some pleasure outside his exausting responsabiities. He was becoming more and more dead inside, a shell of a person.
Than a miracle happened. Kate came into his life. This vibrant woman, full of life, and spunk. Since their first encounter, we began to see a different Anthony from the one we knew. It’s like she literally brought him back to life. We began to see the Anthony his family thought they lost when Edmund died. And the best thing: he didn’t know what the hell was happening to him. He didn’t know what he was feeling for her, until Daphne pointed that out to him in ep4. Because he had never felt that way before. He thought he loved Siena, but what he felt with her was nothing compared of what he was feeling with Kate. She challenged him to be a better person, she forced him to face his issues and overcome them. And even better: she understood him in a way no one has ever done before. They both shared the need to protect their families, their inability to choose their own happiness over duty, the traumas of being put into leader’s positions at a young age.
He wanted her so much that he was literally FERAL in her presence. Anthony has always been a very passionate guy, even with Siena, but the best thing with Kate was that even if he wanted her more than anything else, when he touched her he was gentle and reverant. She was literally the only one who has ever been able to tame the wildest part of himself. He also did respect her, in a way he had never done with Siena, or anyone else, really. Daphne said that to him in ep6, the fact that his father was the only one he truly respected, or listened to. But he did listen to Kate, her opinion, her feelings, what she truly wanted, they were all things very important to him.
He wanted her so damn much that DESPITE his family being on the brink of ruin all he could think about was running away with her, finally doing something for himself, his family be damned. And after coming to terms with his feelings for her and that there was no escaping them, he wanted to marry her even if he knew that would cause an even bigger scandal for his family, but again he didn’t care. He was choosing himself and what he wanted for the first time in his life and it felt good, it felt RIGHT.
In conclusion, the biggest difference between Anthony/Siena and Anthony/Kate, was Anthony himself and how those two women affected him. Siena was an escape mechanism from his duties, Kate saved him (they saved each other), she was his soulmate and the love of his life.
Anthony spent the last decade not talking about his father at all. That’s what not grieving properly do to a person. He can’t talk about it with his family, he can’t go visit his grave, the pure mention of him throws him off.
Then comes the scene in the library. Kate asks him how his father died and instead of closing himself off like he usually does, he just tells her. He also goes a little further in saying that his death was humbling. For Kate is the realization of why he reacted that way with the bee sting, but for the audience it is a lot more. He’s letting himself being vulnerable with her, something he hasn’t done in a long time. He feels safe to be himself, to let her see all the parts of him, the ones he even hides from his own family.
It’s a moment of pure vulnerability and connection between them, because if there is something that Kate truly understands is grieving and missing a parent. They don’t even need words to express the pain because the look in their eyes says it all. That’s why even if different from the book, I just love this scene so damn much.
what are your thoughts on Anthony referring to Kate as a thorn in the blossoming flower of our lives in that scene to Edwina in 2x06? He's clearly lying to her and himself, but I have complicated feelings about it.
I feel like we have to take into consideration what happened before that and Jonny's flawless acting to understand that scene. Actually truth be told the reason why I think Anthony was secretely pissed/annoyed at Kate after the end of ep5 resides mostly on this scene (and also when he was talking to his sister, with his totally not resentful, like at all, 'her plans dont include me'. That was passive aggressive resentment level 100).
I mean we can argue that the entire wedding charade was Anthony's fault since he was the one who proposed to Edwina in the first place, but he also did try to get out of it in ep5. Kate was the one who didn't want him to. Again he could have ignored her pleading, except he just couldn't. And even if she didn't force him to do that, for him it felt like that. And there was another thing that bothered him: her easy dismissal of what they shared. She basically described them as a fling that will pass with time like it was nothing. That hurt him deeply.
So if it was so easy for her to dismiss them like that, then he was going to do the same, he was going to return to marry for duty, for his family, nothing else mattered. That was always the plan afterall. And after the failed wedding he was even more resolute, because he knew he caused the entire mess by being a little too much obvious about his feelings for Kate in public. And he needed to fix that because now both of their families were on the brink of scandal.
So he went to Edwina with that mindset: fixing everything, no matter what. And when she asked him what place Kate would have had in their lives, his espression slowly hardened (Jonny the actor you are), he thought about her saying they were nothing but mere passion, her dismissing them so easily, so yeah, she was a mere thorn in their lives and that was what he knew NOT what he desired. That was what he thought Kate wanted. And you know we could also argue that he was right because later when Kate tried to convince Edwina to go through with the wedding, she said basically the same things just using different words, so much that Edwina herself was like: 'he said the same'. Of course she truly didn't want that, but she was telling herself she did.
So yeah, it would be easy to dismiss what he said in that scene as him being an asshole, but what I love about these characters and the reason why I cant stop talking about them, is that they have layers. They are deeply flawed, but also beautifully complicated. And Simone and Jonny did such a wonderful job at portraying all of that on screen.
the whole horse riding scene in ep4………just this entire little solar system of how kate and anthony interact with one another.
it actually starts back when edwina suggests kate accompany the men for the hunt, and kate is quick to take offence at athony’s hesitance in accepting her, and she thinks it’s cause he thinks less of her capability as a woman (going back to how she overheard him talking about women with his rando bro-ish friends/acquaintances back in ep1), when really it’s just cause it’s so counter to the social norms anthony typically likes to adhere to as a way of fulfilling his duties as a viscount. she says, “because i’m a woman?” and he immediately says, “i didn’t say that”—her quick to judge and accusing him, him denying it and wanting her good opinion (“you simply do not like me. tell me why. [desperately] have i done something to you?? why is it that you dislike me so???”).
then when they’re on their horses kate is the lone woman save her chaperone and she’s alone, as she so often is. anthony’s begrudging and sarcastic with his brother. but then she asks a pointed know-it-all question and he falls back and rides alongside her, and she’s not alone anymore. she’s smarter than everyone else and isn’t afraid to point it out, and anthony is exasperatedly charmed by it (like back when edwina says kate is an excellent shot and he says “of course she is”) and he tells her they should stay with the group and “if we find nothing, i shall offer myself up as target practice.” and the thing is. the thing is he’s only half joking. because later this same episode he *asks* her what she wants (“is that what you want, for me to reconsider?” “it does not matter what i want” “i do not think that is true”), and in later episodes he always does what she says she wants. it’s a half joke because while he says it in jest the core sentiment behind it—that he’ll indulge her, that he takes her ideas seriously and will make amends when he’s wrong—is real.
kate’s totally charmed, complete with a smile and a head toss and secret heart eyes. then anthony looks at her cause he can’t help himself, and she looks at him cause she can’t help herself, and they both look away, as if they neither of them recognize/acknowledge there’s this *thing* between them. and they both are like ‘let’s be normal and have a conversation with pleasantries like we’re normal cause that’s what normal people who are not attracted to each other do,’ and they both speak at the same time. a quick moment of awkwardness, because they are not normal people who are not attracted to each other. but it leads to kate telling him a bit about her past. and she says she used to hunt with a royal family back in india, “a family gracious enough to let me hunt with them.” an there’s a thanks in there, because ‘a gracious family letting her hunt with them’ is a mirror to anthony, however begrudgingly, letting her hunt with him. and anthony has no judgement about her hunting even though she’s a woman, and he makes a joke about her maid, which makes her laugh. and her laugh makes him smile and makes him *shy* for the barest second, makes him look down at his horse, but even as this is happening kate tamps down her laugh (her reaction to him) and stops herself, but again she can’t help herself and she breaks out in a smile again and looks at him and then again reminds herself, *makes* herself to stop smiling and they fall into silence. like there is so much self awareness and control in her, so much doing what she has already prescribed as “right” and in line with the parameters she’s set—to be wary of anthony because of what she overheard and because he’s courting her sister.
and then she says his name, and he responds *immediately*—a mirror to when she later drops her bangle and he immediately goes to help her with it (in front of their entire families while he’s on the altar about to marry her sister), to when no one knows where she is during a storm and he immediately knows where to find her, to when she’s worried about people judging them when they’re dancing together and he says “only look at me.”) and she recognizes his answering so immediately means something because she doesn’t answer, and they just gaze at each other in silence until it’s broken by someone calling him. and so in that shared moment she knows if she wants his attention he will give it to her entirely (remember: she steps out the carriage and smiles up at his home, and instead of making his way to the woman he is supposedly wooing, he goes to her—gives her his whole attention—and speaks to her before even greeting his other guests).
this ep (4) is when the show and their relationship swings from light barbs and banter to angst, and even though the angst becomes convoluted and drawn out, i really like how we get to it, and how much we see kate struggling. it’s not even a conscious struggle at this point, it’s just her trying to do what she thinks she wants.
Keep thinking about anthony continuously shaking his head when kate says this feeling will become bearable over time. I think that’s part of why anthony is pissed at kate in ep6 in some way because he knows it won’t go away. But because kate is not yet ready to let go and accept it for the love of her sister he’s forced to go through with this marriage for her.
The most heartbreaking thing of s2 was that those two were never on the same page. It happened multiple times, and it was heartbreaking every single time. Before this scene alone we had: Anthony being ready to leave everything behind if Kate said to him that she wanted him during their ball in ep4, Kate being ready to tell her sister the truth before him proposing to Edwina, Anthony asking her if she would have preferred a different outcome to their situation but her answering no.
And then we had the scene at the end of ep5. He was ready to call off the wedding, but she begged him not to because she didn't want to break her sister's heart. But again, in putting her sister well being first like always, she ended up breaking both their hearts. For Anthony it was unconceivable what she was saying: he did try to control his feelings, that was what he was trying to do with the proposal to Edwina, but it backfired because he figured out he couldn't. That his honor wasn't strong enough, that he would have continued to want her and love her, no matter if she was the sister of his wife. He had been able to control his feelings his entire life, but with Kate he simply couldn't. And the fact that she was able to say that, the fact that she dismissed them as mere passion...well it bothered him. He had never felt this way before, but clearly she didn't feel the same if she was able to say that so easily. It's not even that he couldn't understand where she was coming from. He did understand that she loved her sister very much, that's in part why he agreed to continue with the farce of the wedding. He could saw that was VERY important to her, and he would have done everything to give her what she wanted. But the fact that she dismissed them...yeah, that hurted.
That's why he seemed cold at times in ep6. If she could be so dismissive of them, then he could do the same. If she wanted him to play the part, then he would. He was hurt, angry, but also at the same time he couldn't stop wanting, loving and yearning for her.
I know we focus a lot on Anthony’s obsessed behavior when it comes to Kate, but Kate was as much obsessed as him (she was just better at hiding it). Let’s delve deep into it:
It took her just a ride in the park to follow him around obsessively at the conservative’s ball. Like for real, girl couldn’t stop looking at him. She even followed him outside, that’s how much she was obsessed by him.
The look she gave him toward the end of ep2. Like that was a longing look, because despite telling herself she hated him, he was the worst and so on, she felt that damn pull too. And once he looked away, focusing back on Edwina, she couldn’t stand it, so much that she left the room in such a hurry, it almost caused a scene.
Her enjoyment when her and Anthony were alone in the woods trying to retrieve their balls from the mud in ep3. She tried to not let him notice, smiling when he wasn’t looking but it was there.
That damn look she sent him when he was about to propose to Edwina at the dinner in ep3. She was on the verge of tears, guys. And she didn’t touch her dinner until the moment he didn’t propose. Then she ate after releasing a sight of relief.
Her watching with yearning both Anthony asking Edwina to dance and later them on the dance floor in ep4.
Her dreaming of their moments in the woods and their almost kiss in the library at the beginning of ep5, she was so overcome she had to literally fan herself.
The way Lady D. had to literally force her to go on a walk with Dorset and then the moment she realized Anthony was looking at them, she was all: ‘i’m having so much fun! Dorset is the best ever!’
Dorset giving her an hand to help her out of the boat, and Kate NOT noticing because she was completely focused on Anthony.
Kate saying: ‘I did not ask for this. To be plagued by these feelings. Hiding from my sister. Being driven to distraction every time you enter the room.‘
Kate being so nervous during the wedding she couldn’t stop touching the bangle, so much that it fell off.
Kate literally running away from Anthony in ep6. That was extremely funny but also showed to us that she didn’t trust herself in his presence anymore. In fact at the end of the episode, when they were alone again, she basically jumped his bones, kissing him passionately.
Her dreaming of their kiss, touching her lips, and getting extremely excited about it.
Their dance at the Bridgerton’s house. When it was over she didn’t know how to act anymore, so much that she began spinning on her own.
The nervousness when she realized that her and Anthony were alone together in the garden. Again she didn’t trust herself anymore, and since she was nervous she began to argue with him.
Kate saying again: ‘It has been you. It has been you this entire time. Spinning my world off its axis, making me reconsider everything I have ever told myself.‘ We always talk about Anthony’s lines but Kate had a bunch of great lines too.
Kate basically deciding that she had enough and she just wanted him to teach her all the ways a lady could be seduced.
Her freaking out later because well she couldn’t believe what she felt that night and how wild she had been.
Kate asking immediately about Anthony after waking up from her accident.
The way she couldn’t stop looking at him at the Featherington’s ball.
At the end of their dance she wanted to kiss him so badly, despite being in front of the entire ton, including the Queen.
Kate jumping his bones again after the second proposal, kissing him passionately once again.
The fact that she said that her duties were particular important to her after having sex for six hours with her husband, makes me think girl got even more horny after marriage.
In conclusion: they are BOTH obsessed with each other. And we love to see it.
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