In light of recent events with the Ithica Saga stream, Iād like to share this song of encouragement for us all.
2024 Wrapped
Jeez I hope this link works the preview keeps showing my wrapped
My mom and I were going to watch the stream together but since it didnāt happen, we started watching the Wisdom Saga stream instead. And when it got to Weāll be Fine, I thought āhuh, this is a good message for us right now.ā Hope if you see this it gives you some encouragement ā¤ļø and Happy Holidays!
Honestly most of the stuff I have to say about him deals with the next two songs instead of this oneā¦
Okay, but the more I listen to Antonius the more his voice is just āØāØāØ? Like Calypsoās voice being gorgeous was on SIGHT (onā¦ hear? Heard? Audio?), but Antonius keeps getting better the more I listen to him. Donāt get me wrong heās a bad dude, but his voice acting? Beautiful
I love the setup in this song, you donāt even notice because itās so catchy
ARGUS CRUSHED MY HEART IN THE ANIMATIC (like I knew he would) poor dog boiā¦ if Jorge doesnāt have Odysseus say hello to him in a song I will be heartbroken.
Little Wolf
This songā¦ the appearance of Athena in this song brought my prospective ranking of it from likely low to battling it out with Love in Paradise for top spot (Iām STILL not sure which one I like more).
When Athena first appeared in the livestream I (mentally) SCREAMED- MY FAV IS BACK SHEāS BACK AND I LOVE HER (very platonically)
I love the little interlude with her and Telemachus- speaking of which-
Iāve seen some people mention how Telemachus seems much younger than 20/21. Something about the portrayal of Telemachus as this naĆÆve inexperienced child? Iām not sure. But I have my own thoughts to share on this, because as someone whoās close to that young adult age, I think itās actually pretty accurate for Telemachusās character. Heās lived in the palace all his life, heās longing to adventure in the world beyond, but he doesnāt know how to fightā¦ I mean, I donāt specifically relate to Telemachus but I can see aspects of this in my own life. Iāve taken my first baby steps into the big adult world, and itās intimidating and scary, and I donāt know how anything works, but Iām trying anyways. Point being, I donāt understand how people think that Telemachus has to be younger just because he doesnāt have certain life experiences or knowledge yet. I think itās a very good portrayal of a young adult being unsure of his coming into the world but excited for it anyways.
Anyways back to ATHENA MY GIRL
I love that we get an in-musical explanation of Quick Thought!! I think itās really important for a musical to be self-contained with its important lore/information and Jorge does such a great job with that.
Athenaās entire speech about the suitors and bullies and inspiring Telemachus and reframing his āLittle Wolfā title CHUCKED THIS SONG SO HIGH IN MY BOOK I need to find a character of mine to associate this part to
The little āooohhhh, maybe I pushed him a bit to hardā is hilarious
Interesting thing weāre doing with transitions into the next songs with this saga. I do agree with some of the people who said it sounds kind of off in this song; I think it mightāve flowed better if it introduced the next one, but honestly, Iām entirely willing to ignore that because this song is *so* good
Weāll be Fine
I have one glaring complaint about this songā¦. WHY ISNT IT LONGER?!?! I NEED MORE OF THIS
I can honestly see this becoming a comfort song for me, it holds such great messages to remember
āCause I got in a fight, and I didnāt die!ā The bar is on the FLOOR with Telemachus
The voice actors are rocking their respective high notes! Jorge pushed them and they owned it!!
Speaking of those good encouraging messages- I absolutely adore Telemachusās chorus. Every time I listen to it, my brain auto-fills the lyrics ahead, and I hear, āmaybe itās all gonna be okay,ā but then Telemachus actually sings the verse and itās āmaybe itās all gonna turn out great!ā And thatās justā¦ such a good thing to think about. Yeah, itās gonna be okay in the end, but what if it was better than okay? What if it turned out to be absolutely amazing?? Thatāsā¦ such a positive way to view things and I need it more in my life. Of course it could get toxic but for me, itās a great reminder of how good things can become
Love in Paradise
I read a post that mentioned how the happiest song in the Thunder Saga is called Suffering, and the saddest song in the Wisdom Saga is called Love in Paradise, and I hate how accurate that is T^T
THE TIME DIVE MONTAGE WAS SO GOOOD- such a fun mini mash-up of the rest of the songs! I wish I had more to say about it because I want to keep gushing over it but Iām just gonna end up repeating myself saying itās so good
The little replay of the āCaptain?ā āI have to see herā ;-;
WANGUIāS VOCALSā I CANāTā THEYāRE SO GORGEOUS *unintelligible squealing*
āSheās my wifeā
āā¦ā
āā¦ā
āā¦ā
āā¦ā
āā¦ā
āAnyways-ā
Her voice is so pretty help I donāt approve of her actions but her VOICE HER VOICE
Can I also just say the animatic/visuals for this section were also gorgeous, such a great compliment to the audio
The way it goes from all sweet and bouncy to āoh ****ā and right back to sweet was so good
āLast I checked goddesses canāt die!!ā *cue the Wisdom Saga stream crash of 2024*
The cliff sceneā¦ oh my goodness itās so *good* itās all so *good* Jorge how are you so good at writing
He pays such close attention to characters and motifs and lines too- you can hear how Calypso triggers Odysseusās flashback.
NOT TO MENTION- when Odysseus yells his line āAll I hear are SCREAMSā, itās in response to Calypsoās line āIāll stay inside your heartā- which is Odysseusās momās lyric from the underworld!! I literally just noticed the connection between the line and his reaction and I havenāt seen anyone else mention it before so-
And Athenaās little āhe needs my helpā- aaaaaa we all feel the pain
God Games
Oh *boy howdy* this one is a doozy
The intro is great, I adore Zeusās voice- this cast is just FULL of talented voice actors man
āā¦ Hera!ā¦. Or meā ā¦. A-wha-huh? Iām sorry didnāt you used to be āandā???
I was intrigued what Apolloās grievance would be based on the whole āwhoās cowsā debacle- the sirens kinda threw me off guard xD
His voice is āØāØāØ though, I love listening to him
JORGEāS DAD HEPHAESTUS!!!!! Aghhh his voice was so good for the part! And I loved the commentary on trust too
Aphroditeās and Aresās parts are still amazing even after all this time- I LOVE the details of Aresās musical motif! He has the same melody as Athena, but played on this raw-sounding violin/cello? And he *also* has quick thought- but it still all feels different from Athenaās too! Because theyāre both gods of war but with different domains and attributes AAAA so good!
And Athenaās lyrics in response- I love the re-do and the little extra quirks in it, like the extra growl on āARES!!!ā And the little riff(?) on āhis sonās my FRIIIIENDā
Heraās part was amazing. 100/10. Her voice was a lotā¦ smoother than I was expecting honestly. It took a bit of getting used to but now I love it. And I am HERE for the dance battle
āNever once has he cheated on his wifeā
āRelease him.ā
10/10 āØāØāØ
I wasā¦ really excited for an Athena/Zeus debate in this song when listening to all the snippets. I couldnāt wait to see how Athena would try and persuade Zeus, what arguments he would use specifically, how it would all go downā¦ instead I got uh-
āI played your game and won! Release him.ā
Oh so, no Zeus round? Ohh this is why it got changed to āorā isnāt it-
āYou DARE to defy me?ā
Huh-
āTo make me feel shame?ā
Whatās happeni-
āNo one beats me, NO ONE WINS MY GAME!!ā
Oh boy howdy-
āTHUNDER BRING HER THROUGH THE WRINGER, SHOW HER IāM THE JUDGEMENT CALL, THE ONE WHO MAKES HER KINGDOM FAAAAALLāā
IāM SORRY THIS WENT FROM 10 TO 100 SO FAST WHAT IS HAPPENING?!ā
Athena in the flashback scene- holding baby Telemachus- the music- my HEART
And the end instrumental is so triumphant aaaaaa
āLet him gooooo! Please-ā JORGE WHEN I GET YOU JORGEā
Uh, so
My thoughts on God Games right after it came out were
Mixed
At first I was so absolutely frazzled from the livestream I could barely put thoughts together outside of incoherent screaming
But then I read a few tumblr posts about how some others were disappointed in how God Games ended and Zeusās character- and I found myself agreeing :/
I do have a propensity for latching onto different opinions because I think theyāre the āexpectedā one for me to have- and I totally think a bit of that was going on here- so I took some time off of tumblr/limiting my scrolling (which needed to be stopped anyways-) to really sort out how I felt on this
And I think I feel a bit stilted by God Games from its ending. The ending wasā¦ underwhelming? Which sounds INSANE considering the end of the stream but itās underwhelming less because of actual shock factor and more because of what specifically happens versus my expectations.
Zeus just kind ofā¦ blasts Athena in the face??? Without provocation?? Athena DID win his game, she passed the terms he set out, she did all of thatā¦ and he shocks her anyways. It just. Doesnāt really sit right with me.
But I love Epic, and want to enjoy every song I come across, and I REALLY didnāt want this view of the ending of God Games to taint the rest of the song or the rest of the musical. So in my next big post, Iām going to do a mini ārewriteā/reworking of God Games that Iāve been toying around with in my mind for a little while now!!
Iāll explain more about why and what and the details in that post but for now, just know that itās been a helpful exercise in enjoying God Games as it is too, and Iāll get to posting that the next time school isnāt absolutely crushing me with long homework assignments
Anyways, those are my kinda-in-depth thoughts about the Wisdom Saga!! Iāve been so excited to write this out and Iām happy to be posting it finally
Donāt mind this post being on Wisdom when Vengeance already came out school is a lot okay-
So in a previous post, I mentioned how I was a little disappointed by the end of God Games. It came down to a combination of my expectations for the Zeus āroundā versus the reality and some (well thought out) posts I read in my frazzled I-survived-the-wisdom-saga-livestream state critiquing Zeusās character in Epic. Iām not going to go into more details than that for now.
While I was grappling with how I felt about God Games and how that impacted my thoughts on the Wisdom Saga and Epic as a whole, I started thinking about what I would have done differently, or what I wouldāve liked to have seen done differently, in God Games. And this exercise turned out to be pretty fun and helped me with my thoughts and feelings about the actual God Games. So I decided to share some of my thoughts with you!!
So for my thought-scenario, I wanted to change God Games, but not drastically. I didnāt want to change any gods in the games or even alter how it ends. I just wanted to figure out how to tweak it just right. And I think I figured out the key: more time!
God Games is long by Epic song standards- at 5:19, itās the longest song in the musical so far! And thereās one small word in the published song thatās distinctly different from the drafts Jayās posted- Zeusās āand meā versus āor meā. I have a small theory that there was originally going to be more to the song, that Zeus was going to be the final round instead of Hera. But that part likely got scrapped due to how long the song was/couldāve gotten. But hEY, THATāS JUST A THEORY; A MUSICAL TH- Iām sorry Iāll go see myself out
So for my little re-imagine, the primary thing Iām doing is leaning *into* the length of the song! Make it longer! Honestly I was expecting more of an 8 minute song here and Iām impressed by Jorgeās ability to condense it all but still make it easily follow-able.
First change weāre making- turn that āorā back into āandā! Thereās no choose whom to convince situation here, Zeus is clearly the final round.
Moving swiftly forward to Apollo and Hephaestus! Both of these verses are great on their own, but for this Iām thinking we extend them by just a couple extra lines.
Perhaps Apollo doesnāt need more convincing, but he says an extra quip towards Athena to sort of pay homage to the Odyssey, where heās also watching over Odysseus (I think, Iām not a Greek mythology or Homer expert). Something likeā¦
Apollo: āYouāre not the only one whoās watched over himā ;)
Athena: āā¦ Thank you.ā
Apollo: āRelease him!ā
Or something similar. Hephaestus, now, I donāt have any specific ideas on how to make his verse longer, but Iād just add a couple other back-and-forth lines before he says to release Odysseus.
Aphrodite and Ares were perfect. They were great, I love them. Athena could potentially have an extra line towards Aphrodite about how, even though he missed his motherās passing, if heās released he wonāt waste another second to get home to the rest of his family he loves. Not entirely sure how to condense that into a witty verse, but there ya go š
Hera!!! Heraāsā¦ is perfect. I canāt see any good way to stretch it out, and I love how succinct it is. So leave that verse 100% as-is.
Now for the big one- Zeus! In this version of God Games, Zeus is the final round, so Athena hasnāt won yet. The verse even starts with Zeus instead of Athena. Iād pay homage to the original Odyssey again here, and have Zeus ask Athena why she desires to go against the fates, which is what ultimately landed Odysseus on Calypsoās island in the first place (by spiting Poseidonās son and the cattle incident, even though it wasnāt Odysseus who killed the cow in the first place) (once again, not an expert, Iāve read this part of the Odyssey only once, so I could be forgetting/misremembering some details).
Athena may reply with something like āheās paid his fair due, he deserves to go back homeā, and also challenges(?) fate as to leaving Odysseus on Calypsoās island for such a long time. Athenaās and Zeusās lines in this part are longer than most of the other godsā lines in their verses.
Alternatively, instead of saying āfateā is what led Odysseus to the island, itās Zeusās divine punishment to Odysseus for the mistakes heās made on the voyage home, and for the cyclops and cow and all the crew who died. In this case, Athena is (in)directly challenging Zeusās authority on the matter. Maybe thereās another couple lines back and forth here, but it winds up to Athena directly calling Zeus out for Odysseusās pain and demanding that Zeus release him as heās suffered enough. And *thiiis* is what sets Zeus off.
I imagine his lines here are pretty similar to the ones he actually sings, but tweaked (obviously) to fit this new situation. Something like
āYou dare to defy me?! To make me feel shame?! Your foolish pride is what will make you LOSE MY GAMEā
Iām not entirely sure on the pride line, I know thereās something in Greek Mythos about pride/hubris being a solely *human* thing, something that the gods just donāt have problems with? But on the other hand, to Zeus this is Athena rising above her place and defying his authority, something he needs to put out right *now*. What would it be if not some sort of pride? (Obviously it stems more from Athenaās friendship with/care for Odysseus but thatās not gonna factor into Zeusās perspective)
And from here on, the rest of the song goes as it was. Thunder bringer, the flashback, Athena standing her ground, and her making her final plea to Zeus.
And those were my thoughts on how I would expand God Games and fit a whole round with Zeus in it! I had a lot of fun coming up with this reimagining, and itās actually helped me enjoy the God Games we got more too! Iām always blown away by how musically Epic(TM) the songs are every time I listen to them and the voice acting is absolutely phenomenal. Maybe God Games didnāt go the way I originally expected it to go but itās a great piece of work, and I like seeing the depths of character Jorgeās able to convey in each song- even with Zeus!
And the biggest moral of the story for me is to not browse tumblr until my brain breaks the morning after a saga livestream. Good lessons, good lessons.
If youāve made it this far I hope you enjoyed my God Game ramblings and could see a little bit of my vision with expanding the length of the song!
Also no Athenaās not dead, itās not denial, itās called foreshadowing with Calypsoās line and the fact that Athena doesnāt even get *close* to death in the Odyssey- I know Epicās a loose adaptation but thereās no way Jay would deviate *that* much and kill her off, if Athenaās actually dead Iām gonna flip out probably Iām going to be *so* upsetā
So uhh. If you feel like talking about it. As someone who lives in the US, how are you being kind to yourself on this upsetting morning <3
Checked in with my loved ones first and foremost.
It's interesting. The vibe I've been getting from my circle is very different from 2016. Much lessā¦ dread and horror at a realignment of the understanding of what can and can't happen here, now, in this place and day and age. More "fuck, guys. again? whatever. enjoy your consequences, maybe you'll manage to learn something this time."
Frustration and anger is not the most positive feeling, or even the most fair one to express, but it is a protective one. It hurts a lot less than most alternatives.
And it's quite a shift. It was earthshattering back then. How could this have been allowed to happen? Why couldn't it be stopped? Why couldn't we stop it? Why couldn't I stop it? Why couldn't everyone see what this meant? Why couldn't I make them understand? Did they really not care? What did that mean about humanity as a whole? Were we so thoughtless? How could anyone be trusted?
It seemsā¦ much less earthshattering to see it happen twice. Disappointing, sure. Frustrating. But nowhere near as devastating as the first time I saw it unfold. We already knew it could happen. I've already had time to digest the implications. Now I'm just freshly disappointed.
It also feels less indicative of Crushing Truths Of Reality this time. We've seen shit get bad. We've also seen shit get better from here! We know both outcomes are possible, even inevitable. We know hoping for a better future is always worthwhile. This isn't the apocalypse. It's an unremarkably bad turn of events brought on by unremarkably self-centered well-documented human impulses. It's utterly mundane in its unpleasantness. It doesn't need to be dignified with despair.
A democratic election, no matter the outcome or the side we're on, makes us all acutely aware of how outnumbered we are by people whose worldviews and priorities are demonstrably incomprehensible to us. And the first time you get outnumbered, it's a shock. Defeat is haunting. It didn't matter how badly you wanted it; by the very function of democracy, you do not have the power to override greater numbers. (insert electoral college caveat here)
The second time through, I find myself focusing on a different facet that has dramatically reduced the amount of spiralling I'm doing. I don't expect this to work for everyone, but for me specifically, it helped to crystallize a few thoughts:
You don't have the power to control anyone else. You don't. You can't share your worldview and your revelations with them. You can't make them think or understand anything. You can lay it all out for them, but you can't make them listen, and you can't make it click. A mentor can't make their student learn a lesson; that's why teaching is so complicated and hard. An active choice must be made by the person to enable themselves to understand, and they must put the pieces together in their own mind before it makes sense to them, and the pieces must have been presented in a way that makes sense to them in the first place. Lead a horse to water, can't make them drink.
These elections highlight a disconnect in what different groups of people care about; and no matter how clearly you explain yourself or how passionately you perform, caring cannot be forced on someone. Understanding and connection cannot be forced. You cannot make anything or anyone matter to someone. They have to choose to see how it matters in order to internalize it. If they choose not to, that is not your failing. You couldn't have made them do it by just Explaining Better. They are not your responsibility. They make their own choices. You can't reach inside their head and connect the dots for them.
I'm a storyteller. I make stories and put them out into the world. I hope people get something good out of them, but I have no control over what that something is. I want people to be thoughtful and kind and compassionate and hopeful and see themselves reflected in stranges, no matter their differences. I can craft stories that I hope encourage this. But that is the extent of my ability and the extent of my responsibility. I control no-one's actions but my own, and so while I am not having the best day, I am at least content that I am doing what I can, and I am not shattering myself against impossibilities trying to control the things I can't.
Sometimes, people make decisions that I think are really bad. I can't make that not happen. All I can do is try to make decisions that will result in things I think are good. Today, that means checking in on people, and not assigning too much dramatic narrative weight to an ultimately mundane set of unremarkable bad decisions outside of my control. We'll take life as it comes and help each other out when and how we can. Everything else is out of our hands.
and thanks @deadunknownx @muffinthedestroyerofgods @lookimtryingmybest for the contributions!
image description & pictured text more clearly written out under the cut
[ID]: Venn diagram with three circles: a yellow one for Lin-Manuel Miranda, a red one for Jorge Rivera-Herrans and a blue one for Jonny Sims. Text in the diagram as follows:
Lin-Manuel Miranda: actual celebrity; Hamilton
Jorge Rivera-Herrans: EPIC: The Musical; very present on social media
Jonny Sims: British; The Mechanisms & The Magnus Archives; names characters after himself
overlap Lin & Jorge: Puerto Rican American; released concept versions of songs where they sang all the parts; plays piano; musicals
overlap Lin & Jonny: won awards with work; has performed live for an audience
overlap Jorge & Jonny: played Odysseus in Greek mythology inspired musical; cast both parents in work; character that's scared of becoming the monster becomes the monster; character goes through the Horrorsā¢
overlap all three: music; cast self as lead; played character from Greek mythology; writer of work that became popular on social media; played character with questionable morals
Honestly most of the stuff I have to say about him deals with the next two songs instead of this oneā¦
Okay, but the more I listen to Antonius the more his voice is just āØāØāØ? Like Calypsoās voice being gorgeous was on SIGHT (onā¦ hear? Heard? Audio?), but Antonius keeps getting better the more I listen to him. Donāt get me wrong heās a bad dude, but his voice acting? Beautiful
I love the setup in this song, you donāt even notice because itās so catchy
ARGUS CRUSHED MY HEART IN THE ANIMATIC (like I knew he would) poor dog boiā¦ if Jorge doesnāt have Odysseus say hello to him in a song I will be heartbroken.
Little Wolf
This songā¦ the appearance of Athena in this song brought my prospective ranking of it from likely low to battling it out with Love in Paradise for top spot (Iām STILL not sure which one I like more).
When Athena first appeared in the livestream I (mentally) SCREAMED- MY FAV IS BACK SHEāS BACK AND I LOVE HER (very platonically)
I love the little interlude with her and Telemachus- speaking of which-
Iāve seen some people mention how Telemachus seems much younger than 20/21. Something about the portrayal of Telemachus as this naĆÆve inexperienced child? Iām not sure. But I have my own thoughts to share on this, because as someone whoās close to that young adult age, I think itās actually pretty accurate for Telemachusās character. Heās lived in the palace all his life, heās longing to adventure in the world beyond, but he doesnāt know how to fightā¦ I mean, I donāt specifically relate to Telemachus but I can see aspects of this in my own life. Iāve taken my first baby steps into the big adult world, and itās intimidating and scary, and I donāt know how anything works, but Iām trying anyways. Point being, I donāt understand how people think that Telemachus has to be younger just because he doesnāt have certain life experiences or knowledge yet. I think itās a very good portrayal of a young adult being unsure of his coming into the world but excited for it anyways.
Anyways back to ATHENA MY GIRL
I love that we get an in-musical explanation of Quick Thought!! I think itās really important for a musical to be self-contained with its important lore/information and Jorge does such a great job with that.
Athenaās entire speech about the suitors and bullies and inspiring Telemachus and reframing his āLittle Wolfā title CHUCKED THIS SONG SO HIGH IN MY BOOK I need to find a character of mine to associate this part to
The little āooohhhh, maybe I pushed him a bit to hardā is hilarious
Interesting thing weāre doing with transitions into the next songs with this saga. I do agree with some of the people who said it sounds kind of off in this song; I think it mightāve flowed better if it introduced the next one, but honestly, Iām entirely willing to ignore that because this song is *so* good
Weāll be Fine
I have one glaring complaint about this songā¦. WHY ISNT IT LONGER?!?! I NEED MORE OF THIS
I can honestly see this becoming a comfort song for me, it holds such great messages to remember
āCause I got in a fight, and I didnāt die!ā The bar is on the FLOOR with Telemachus
The voice actors are rocking their respective high notes! Jorge pushed them and they owned it!!
Speaking of those good encouraging messages- I absolutely adore Telemachusās chorus. Every time I listen to it, my brain auto-fills the lyrics ahead, and I hear, āmaybe itās all gonna be okay,ā but then Telemachus actually sings the verse and itās āmaybe itās all gonna turn out great!ā And thatās justā¦ such a good thing to think about. Yeah, itās gonna be okay in the end, but what if it was better than okay? What if it turned out to be absolutely amazing?? Thatāsā¦ such a positive way to view things and I need it more in my life. Of course it could get toxic but for me, itās a great reminder of how good things can become
Love in Paradise
I read a post that mentioned how the happiest song in the Thunder Saga is called Suffering, and the saddest song in the Wisdom Saga is called Love in Paradise, and I hate how accurate that is T^T
THE TIME DIVE MONTAGE WAS SO GOOOD- such a fun mini mash-up of the rest of the songs! I wish I had more to say about it because I want to keep gushing over it but Iām just gonna end up repeating myself saying itās so good
The little replay of the āCaptain?ā āI have to see herā ;-;
WANGUIāS VOCALSā I CANāTā THEYāRE SO GORGEOUS *unintelligible squealing*
āSheās my wifeā
āā¦ā
āā¦ā
āā¦ā
āā¦ā
āā¦ā
āAnyways-ā
Her voice is so pretty help I donāt approve of her actions but her VOICE HER VOICE
Can I also just say the animatic/visuals for this section were also gorgeous, such a great compliment to the audio
The way it goes from all sweet and bouncy to āoh ****ā and right back to sweet was so good
āLast I checked goddesses canāt die!!ā *cue the Wisdom Saga stream crash of 2024*
The cliff sceneā¦ oh my goodness itās so *good* itās all so *good* Jorge how are you so good at writing
He pays such close attention to characters and motifs and lines too- you can hear how Calypso triggers Odysseusās flashback.
NOT TO MENTION- when Odysseus yells his line āAll I hear are SCREAMSā, itās in response to Calypsoās line āIāll stay inside your heartā- which is Odysseusās momās lyric from the underworld!! I literally just noticed the connection between the line and his reaction and I havenāt seen anyone else mention it before so-
And Athenaās little āhe needs my helpā- aaaaaa we all feel the pain
God Games
Oh *boy howdy* this one is a doozy
The intro is great, I adore Zeusās voice- this cast is just FULL of talented voice actors man
āā¦ Hera!ā¦. Or meā ā¦. A-wha-huh? Iām sorry didnāt you used to be āandā???
I was intrigued what Apolloās grievance would be based on the whole āwhoās cowsā debacle- the sirens kinda threw me off guard xD
His voice is āØāØāØ though, I love listening to him
JORGEāS DAD HEPHAESTUS!!!!! Aghhh his voice was so good for the part! And I loved the commentary on trust too
Aphroditeās and Aresās parts are still amazing even after all this time- I LOVE the details of Aresās musical motif! He has the same melody as Athena, but played on this raw-sounding violin/cello? And he *also* has quick thought- but it still all feels different from Athenaās too! Because theyāre both gods of war but with different domains and attributes AAAA so good!
And Athenaās lyrics in response- I love the re-do and the little extra quirks in it, like the extra growl on āARES!!!ā And the little riff(?) on āhis sonās my FRIIIIENDā
Heraās part was amazing. 100/10. Her voice was a lotā¦ smoother than I was expecting honestly. It took a bit of getting used to but now I love it. And I am HERE for the dance battle
āNever once has he cheated on his wifeā
āRelease him.ā
10/10 āØāØāØ
I wasā¦ really excited for an Athena/Zeus debate in this song when listening to all the snippets. I couldnāt wait to see how Athena would try and persuade Zeus, what arguments he would use specifically, how it would all go downā¦ instead I got uh-
āI played your game and won! Release him.ā
Oh so, no Zeus round? Ohh this is why it got changed to āorā isnāt it-
āYou DARE to defy me?ā
Huh-
āTo make me feel shame?ā
Whatās happeni-
āNo one beats me, NO ONE WINS MY GAME!!ā
Oh boy howdy-
āTHUNDER BRING HER THROUGH THE WRINGER, SHOW HER IāM THE JUDGEMENT CALL, THE ONE WHO MAKES HER KINGDOM FAAAAALLāā
IāM SORRY THIS WENT FROM 10 TO 100 SO FAST WHAT IS HAPPENING?!ā
Athena in the flashback scene- holding baby Telemachus- the music- my HEART
And the end instrumental is so triumphant aaaaaa
āLet him gooooo! Please-ā JORGE WHEN I GET YOU JORGEā
Uh, so
My thoughts on God Games right after it came out were
Mixed
At first I was so absolutely frazzled from the livestream I could barely put thoughts together outside of incoherent screaming
But then I read a few tumblr posts about how some others were disappointed in how God Games ended and Zeusās character- and I found myself agreeing :/
I do have a propensity for latching onto different opinions because I think theyāre the āexpectedā one for me to have- and I totally think a bit of that was going on here- so I took some time off of tumblr/limiting my scrolling (which needed to be stopped anyways-) to really sort out how I felt on this
And I think I feel a bit stilted by God Games from its ending. The ending wasā¦ underwhelming? Which sounds INSANE considering the end of the stream but itās underwhelming less because of actual shock factor and more because of what specifically happens versus my expectations.
Zeus just kind ofā¦ blasts Athena in the face??? Without provocation?? Athena DID win his game, she passed the terms he set out, she did all of thatā¦ and he shocks her anyways. It just. Doesnāt really sit right with me.
But I love Epic, and want to enjoy every song I come across, and I REALLY didnāt want this view of the ending of God Games to taint the rest of the song or the rest of the musical. So in my next big post, Iām going to do a mini ārewriteā/reworking of God Games that Iāve been toying around with in my mind for a little while now!!
Iāll explain more about why and what and the details in that post but for now, just know that itās been a helpful exercise in enjoying God Games as it is too, and Iāll get to posting that the next time school isnāt absolutely crushing me with long homework assignments
Anyways, those are my kinda-in-depth thoughts about the Wisdom Saga!! Iāve been so excited to write this out and Iām happy to be posting it finally
WAIT HOLD ON is that Circeās motif at around 1:48 of suffering? When āPenelopeā is talking about Scylla?
I canāt really tell, but if it is, oh my gosh!! That would be amazing and add yet another layer to the song! After all, in several versions of myth Circe was the one to transform Scylla into what she is now!! That would be a really neat Easter egg if it was-
No no, I think it *is*, the notes might be a little different but itās *definitely* there. I didnāt know about the Circe turning Scylla before this post (this is definitely making me want to brush up on my Greek mythology) but OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS HOW IS THIS MAN SO GOOD AT FITTING MOTIFS LIKE THIS INTO EVERY CORNER OF EVERY SONGā thereās just so many wonderful Easter eggs to find in this musical and I am LOVING IT
It emphasizes the Problem and not the Man, creates new tensions and makes every crack in Odysseus's sanity since the Infant, feel heavier. It introduces the videogame vibes earlier and also how Athena's time stopping works.
On the con side, it's a little less thrilling when everything is a flashback.
Yes I'm aware I'm saying something very obvious, changing the order in a narrative changes the narrative. But, what a fun exercise. 10/10 will do again.
...........
EDIT
Iām so happy there are so many people on board! I hope you enjoy the experiment. So, just in case you get lost,Ā I guess Iāll expand on my vision (youāll probably have more ideas, though):
We start on Ithaca, Telemachus, and the suitors. We meet Athena, weāre introduced to the time stop and the video game fights. We learn she regrets breaking her friendship to someone. Then, we learn this someone is Odysseus and we get BIG EPIC INTRO TIME through Athenaās mind travel (if you've seen the Phantom of the Opera, kind of like the chandelier intro moment). And now Odysseus is suicidal and we have all these voices that will make sense further in the musical. So, whatās the tea?
Ok, now weād need to imagine some kind of transition, but. Off to The Horse and The Infant we go. And now thereās a noticeable difference between the enthusiastic Odysseus that was back then and what he is now. And how cold Athena was. And itās kind of a punch to the gut. And then things get worse and worse. And then God Games.
And then we would be free to go forward with the story.Ā Ta-da!Ā Ā Ā
EDIT 2
Telemachus introducing the Monster theme in the conventional, fantastic way, and then the Actual Monster development of Odysseus? Arghh
Iām 12 years late to it but letās ramble about Scylla
Of course it took the Wisdom Saga nearly dropping for me to finally finish this
This may be a collective organized rant or itās (more likely) gonna be a super-ramble nonsense jumble pile of me trying to words
A bit of background- I got into Epic right around the time the Ocean Saga released; I quickly got obsessed (as one does) and have watched a bunch of Jorgeās older shorts on the making of different songs, including just about everything I could find on Scyllaās song. I was enamored by the vocals Jorge teased us with and as the Thunder Saga drew nearer, Scylla was hands-down the song I was most hyped for.
And BY GOLLY I WAS NOT DISAPPOINTED. I was blown away by Scylla on the livestream. Everything- the vocals, the instrumentals, the visuals- came together beautifully and Iām gonna ramble about it
But to really see Odysseus through this we gotta start with Suffering (which is an absolute bop); specifically when the siren tells Odysseus about Scylla. When she first says Scylla, Odysseus is repellent of that option, judging by his immediate ānoā. He isnāt immediately on board. He doesnāt want to sacrifice his crew. And (even though we all knew this was coming) it takes the rest of Suffering and Different Beast before we finally see that heās willing to go through with it in the opening of Scylla (what with him saying āthis is our only way homeā and all that).
Parts of Scylla sound like a waltz!! I havenāt noticed anyone else mention that yet. Maybe itās just me. But in the first section during the ādeep downās and Ody/Eury dialogue the chords all sound waltz-y to me.
Odysseus only has a few lines in this song as well as some interesting parts when he doesnāt speak.
His very first lines- āthe lair of Scyllaā¦ this is our only way homeā arenāt in the same harsh tone as Different Beast. To me it sounds like heās trying to justify his decision to himself. He has to go through with this. Itās the only way that heāll get back to Ithica.
Contrast this with his tone as he speaks to Eurylochus- ānot much to sayā. Itās back to being rough and hard. Heās closing himself off to the rest of his crew, including Eurylochus. Heās becoming the monster to them. (Rawr rawr rawr)
The confession scene- THE CONFESSION SCENE MY GOODNESS. Honestly I wasnāt exactly expecting Eurylochus to have opened the bag but Iām not surprised either. It was a very āahhhā moment for me. And Scyllaās words-
Iāve seen a few posts talking about how they believed Scyllaās words were directed to Eurylochus in this scene, but I never thought that was the case. I think Jay deliberately created the parallel there, but Eurylochus doesnāt seem like heās *hearing* Scylla yet. (Remember- later on, he says āsomething approachesā as if thatās the first heās seeing/hearing of Scylla.) No, these lyrics are meant for Odysseus, and what heās about to do. Not to say there isnāt any relevance to Eurylochus here- āyou hide a reason for shame ā¦ leaving them feeling betrayed / breaking the bonds that youāve madeā alternate with Eurylochusās apology, as they shed light on what Eurylochus *had* done as well as what Odysseus was *going* to do. There is a strong parallel here- but itās not Eurylochus Scylla is talking to. (This is also supported by the lyrics āyou know that we are the sameā and āwe both know what it takes to surviveā, neither of which have much relevance to Eurylochus here.) The lyric āyou know that we are the sameā is an interesting one, but Iāll get back to it later.
So Odysseus basically ghosts Eurylochus- and yes heās probably furious about the wind bag incident but I think another reason for his silence is because heās been hearing Scylla. Odysseus canāt forgive nor blame Eurylochus because heās about to betray Eurylochus right back. Maybe he just canāt face speaking to Eurylochus with what heās about to do.
Did anyone else at this point realize the sole purpose of the song āFull Speed Aheadā was for nothing more than to create a motif to be used absolutely everywhere
Then we get to Odysseusās first words to Eurylochus! When first listening I could feel my heart dropping, as did likely everyone else who knew about Scylla from the Odyssey. But the DELIVERY. The simple DELIVERY of those CONDEMNING LINES- Eurylochus doesnāt even react to this order. This is really how you know that he- and the rest of the crew- donāt know where theyāre headed. (Iāve seen plenty of people talk about Eurylochusās thoughts during this scene and afterward so Iām not gonna tread over that same ground.) All I can say is my heart sank.
Did anyone else think about the lack of a ādanger is nearā motif in this song? Iāve heard a possible modified version in the song (1:14 if anyone wants to listen for it), but it doesnāt fully fit, and nowhere else is a hint of this theme shown. And thereās clearly about to be danger in this song- for six of Odysseusās crew, that is. I think the reason we canāt hear a ādanger is nearā motif in this song because there isnāt a danger for Odysseus, and thatās who the danger is near motif is for. After all, the motif was present in āMutinyā, right *after* they got through the danger of Scylla. Just another something cool Iāve found that I havenāt seen anyone else comment on before.
āCaptain, something approachesā
āHello.ā
The DRUMS ON EACH BEAT, the VIOLIN RUNS, all with the background SHEPARD TONES falling and then rising, the SUSPENSE- THE ***SUSPENSE***
Before Scylla came out, I repeatedly watched the Scylla audition call video Jay put out, and from that I had the thought that the buildup section would be much shorter. Boy was that not the case and boy was that such a good decision the more I think about it. You really feel the suspense gradually build like it does for the crew, first seeing the vague shapes of Scylla and slowly having more and more revealed in the torchlight before the heads pounce.
Not to mention Scyllaās voice actor is amazing. She does a wonderful job of the smooth, almost angelic voice at the beginning and end, but in the chorus?! Jayās videos on it didnāt do this justice! The MONSTROUS way she growls, the HARMONIES that come in in the second chorus- not to mention the crazy drums and other music in the background adding to the chaos.
And in the background you can *hear* when each man is scooped up, when each man is being devoured. Once again youāre right there with the crew, hearing your fellow friends get eaten. Itās not something I would expect to hear in the official song when their deaths arenāt the main focus during the chorus (the main focus being Scylla herself), but props to Jay for adding that detail.
One thing I noticed in the amazing animatic done for this section that I havenāt noticed many people specifically point out yet, is how Eurylochus doesnāt seem to catch on itās the torches that are signaling to Scylla which men to eat until *after* he passes his own on. You can see it in the horror on his face as he looks at the second-to-last torch drop, then as he turns to the final man, the man heād given his torch to (as he presumably went to try and help someone else from getting eaten? Thatās how I interpret him leaving the torch with the final guy, like a āI need both hands for thisā kind of thing).
Then the END- after the rampage- the final āWe must do what it takes to surviveā- it quiets down, the waltzy pattern comes back out, and the final line- āWe are the same, you and Iā
Back to that previous lyric I mentioned, āyou know that we are the sameā. Near the beginning of the song when I heard it, the lyric recalled to my mind that villain trope of āweāre not so differentā (I think thatās a trope). And here at the end of the song that sentiment is repeated- and Odysseus SINGS WIRH HER. He AGREES. Up until now Odysseus hasnāt acknowledged Scylla talking to him, but here heās given into the thought that yes, now he *is* the monster - to both his enemies *and* his crew. (Rawr rawr rawr)
And thatās how Scyllaās become one of my absolute favorite songs from Epic
imagine jorge rivera-herrans on tumblr. imagine the shitposting. imagine if he could see all the crazy stuff we post on here. imagine him reblogging the cool art and overall just uplifting our community. imagine him answering our craziest asks. jorge rivera-herrans should totally get tumblr
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