Knight Of Balance: Redux @kob131 - Tumblr Blog

My doggo, Ezri, who rarely barks and mostly borks.

When I got her, she’d been abused and would cower and pee at almost everything, and had been mistreated when she’d barked, so she never would. One day months after I had her she got excited on a walk and borked at a bird, and then immediately cower-peed. I had to re-teach her to bark by gathering her whole human pack and having everyone bark and howl and feed her treats and pet her till she got excited enough to join in, and then got more treats. Took a while but I was able to teach her to bork on command (and she’s gotta be excited or she just stares at me like “Sorry, the bork system needs charging”) and she’ll do it happily when she’s excited to go for a walk or upon seeing a friend, and at birds. I love her croaky borking, especially when she started off terrified of making a joyful noise.

merak-zoran

corvigae

What kind of dog is Ezri? I love her!!

fire-is-her-water

I… did not expect this post to blow up this much but I am delighted at all the tags and replies and Ezri has been told the internet thinks she’s a Very Good Dog. :D

She’s a German spitz - in the same family as keeshonds and pomeranians. She might be crossed with something else as her freckled coat, non-pointy nose, and personality are not standard for her breed (they’re usually a lot more high energy and excitable - she’s super laid back and chill). She’s a bit less fluffy than breed-standard too, mostly because she’s grown out from her spring/summer trim (not usually necessary/good for her type of coat but she gets terribly itchy otherwise). It also makes her look like a puppy of a large breed:

Ezri’s best friend is Murder Cat, who is a gentle friend to humans and Ezri, but does things to mice that would make Hannibal Lecter go “Isn’t that a bit much?”

I got Murder Cat as a kitten, and she used to try to nurse on everything when she was small. Eventually, she settled on her favourite thing to nurse on, Ezri, who has never had puppies and a little confused at first but eventually went with it. She grew out of it, but they have stayed snuggly buddies ever since.

New Years here is full of fireworks outside and Ezri gets Vry Scared. I usually set her up somewhere with a snuggly spot right by me, and Murder Cat comes and does this all night:

She goes everywhere with me in my bakfiets (cargo bike) and lets me warm my hands in her fur on cold days.

And her ears disappear if I say her name to get her attention.

ok so great thanks for coming to my TED talk about my dog, good night, drive safe

hedwig-dordt

Wat een snuitje!

pmpknsoup

saintofpride201

Ruby: - And then Jaune came along on a horse sized bunny, turns out he was 30, and he touched a fruit that made him go back in time 20 years ago...

Robyn: May, it's not flickering...

Ruby: Then apparently we went through a field and found ourselves caught in a "punderstorm" which manefests metaphors LITERALLY and we appeared at a literal crossroads because the cat said "i guess we're at a crossroads"-

May: Still can't believe the cat fucking talked...

Ruby: According to Yang, her and Blake were sent to a fucking MARRIAGE PILLAR where they could only stand on it if they stopped beating around the bush and confessed already...

Fiona: Aww! Congratulations!

*yang & blake smile and wave*

Ruby: Then we made it to the village that jaune had protected for probably a decade, which was bad because he was halting their natural cycle of life & death so they tried to off themselves by drowning-

Robyn: IT'S STILL FUCKING GREEN!!!!

Ruby: Wait til i get to the part where I died!

Robyn: Wait, what?

Weiss: Yeah, she drank some magic tea, it was pretty traumatic for everyone involved...

May: Goddamn...

Fiona: Are you for real??

Robyn (reaching out for the rest of Team RWBY): GET THE FUCK OVER HERE AND TAKE MY HAND!!!

armedweiss

Fixing RWBY's hack of Penny sucks. Her canonical hack is deeply rooted in themes of her lacking control in her life, intersecting with Ironwood's own theme of control in him being a control freak. FRWBY completely lacks this because the hack ISN'T in the Atlas arc at all. This is the finale of RWBY's theme of control, how Penny and Ironwood interact with this theme, and how Fixing RWBY fucked it up

A lot of people give Ironwood shit for having Watts hack Penny, thinking he's stupid for trusting him to do this. For one thing he has Watts at gunpoint, if Watts does anything out of line without being extremely sneaky about it he knows he could get gunned down. But far more importantly, this action is the climax of this theme Ironwood and Penny share. Ironwood is forcing Watts to do what he wants so that he can force Penny to do what he wants, it's a deeply thematic action that ties into their character arcs. Ironwood's controlling tendencies hit such an apex that he wants to strip Penny of her ability to act on her own will entirely. He wants that vault opened yesterday and by the Brothers he'll get it NOW, methods be damned

According to Watts, he did exactly what Ironwood wanted and there's nothing to suggest he's lying. The orders Ironwood wanted? Make Penny open the vault and then "self-terminate," probably gambling on the maiden powers transferring to Winter, assuming the thought even crossed his mind. A complete violation of Penny's individuality and personhood

The fact that Ironwood decided to hack Penny also shows that even before deciding to bomb Mantle he's hit a turning point that's beyond redemption. He's the very person that signed off on the aura transfer technology, he once believed in the idea of a protector with a soul. Him deciding to hack her, to strip her of her free will to force her to obey him and then make her kill herself, is him betraying and throwing away the very ideals he once held. His paranoia, his belief that he needs to be as ruthless and monstrous as he perceives Salem to be, and most importantly his need to control everything by any means necessary now supersedes anything resembling the compassion and heart he once had

FRWBY's hack completely misses all of this. She gets hacked in the Beacon arc by one of Watts' viruses because doing so would be a "smarter, more complex" plan. Because it's the villains acting entirely on their own will, where being a control freak is far from integral to CEMNW as characters, this is so limp and weak compared to what we got in canon

The funny thing about hacking Penny in the Beacon arc is that it irreparably screwed Celtic in FRWBYV8. If he hacks Penny again due to Watts choosing to screw over Ironwood it's repetitive because we already have Penny getting hacked for similar reasons. If he has Ironwood order she get hacked for some reason then it completely misses the point of the original because Celtic threw away Penny's theme of lacking control in the Atlas arc, and Ironwood's controlling tendencies are downplayed in FRWBY compared to canon. If he doesn't hack her, it's another thing that makes Fixing RWBY increasingly unrecognizable from canon for no reason, a damning statement on a so-called fix fic

It's lose-lose-lose no matter which path he takes, and he has nobody but himself to blame. FRWBYV3 ended before canon V7 even started, he had no way to know that Penny would return let alone that she would get hacked. Not so easy to write on hard mode without the power of hindsight on your side is it Celtic?

kob131

Yeah, gonna have to call you out there.

This is the scene being referenced in Volume 8, Episode 5: "Amity"

Ironwood is looking at his Scroll, with which he attempted to call Penny. The screen says that it could not complete the call. Ironwood: And Penny isn’t responding. (turning to Watts) What did you do? Watts plays with Penny’s sword as he speaks, before turning to Ironwood. Watts: Exactly what you asked. It’s possible Penny’s systems are merely rebooting. As for the tower, well, perhaps Pietro isn’t the genius you thought-- Ironwood angrily throws his Scroll at Watts, who swats it away. The Scroll, now broken, lands on the desk. Ironwood: (sighs) We’re not waiting. You’re going to find her. Ironwood turns to address Winter Schnee who has approached the desk. Ironwood: Winter. Winter stares at Penny’s sword, giving Ironwood a delayed response. Winter: Sir? Ironwood: Until Penny either responds or is standing in front of that Vault, we can not assume her status. Take the Ace Ops. I want constant updates. Winter, Marrow, Elm and Vine salute him and then begin leaving the room. Watts picks up his tool kit and then begins rolling his chair along the desk, turning off the monitors. Ironwood heads for the exit while addressing Harriet. Ironwood: Get him back to his cell.

In this scene, it's quite clear that things aren't going exactly how James wanted them to go. Yes, it is logical that Penny would need a forced reboot for the virus to take effect but remember: Watts hates James with a passion. If he can get away with it, even if it means, say, working with a witch hellbent on destroying the world: He'll do it.

Another scene in the next episode, "Midnight", implies that whatever Watts was doing was well withing Salem's plans-

Salem: We have good news. Tyrian has heard from our dear colleague Watts. Although he remains in captivity, it seems that he has worked with Ironwood to gain some control over the puppet masquerading as the Winter Maiden. I suppose he remains useful after all.

And the famous Watts/Cinder scene in Episode 10, "Ultimatum", confirms this.

Cinder: You said in your message that you have control over Penny. Watts: I said I had Penny under control, not that I could telekinetically force her to do whatever I want. Cinder turns around, looking irritated. Cinder: What? Watts: I implanted a virus in her, you dimwit. She's on a set path now. At least, she should be. As much as I hate to admit it, there seems to be some part of her capable of resisting. (Cinder clenched her fist, as Watts turns away) Regardless, it's only the matter of time before her mechanical body succumbs to the virus. She'll open the Vault, then she'll destroy herself, and our little Penny problem will be do--

So if Watts is operating for the benefit of someone, it's Salem. And while James is doing a fantastic impression of a Salem subordinate at this time, he is still a distinct faction separate from Salem right now with his own goals. (for you Skyrim players, think of it as the same relationship as between the Thalmor and Ulfric).

So no, I don't think James wanted Penny to self destruct, especially since there's no gurantee that Winter will get the power (frankly, at this point it's more like, even by Penny's own admission, that Ruby would get the power. And that'd be awful for James). That's entirely a Watts/Salem move.

I find this a big hole because most of what you say here about canon is correct (I cannot confirm nor deny FRWBY). You are accurately describing the situation...but here, it seems you are taking the issue with James a step too far. He is already throwing out everything he once believed and stood for: Saying that the self destruct is in line with what James wants is just too far. Given how contentious this topic is, I believe accuracy is VERY important here.

armedweiss

Oh I see. My bad there. I forgot those details

Given Ironwood attempting to kill Oscar, murdering Sleet, bombing Mantle, and attempting to execute Marrow I thought making Penny kill herself was in line with his trajectory to villainy so I didn't think to check everything

Still doesn't take away from the larger points: Ironwood violating Penny's personhood, tying into their themes, and how FRWBY fucked it up. But when you screw up you admit fault

kob131

It happens.

Admitting a mistake is all that's necessary. Not like this is some grave sin or anything but you'd be surprised by how often people just refuse to just say 'Oops'. I don't disagree with you, mind you. But people get this topic wrong so often, I really don't like it when it happens.

armedweiss

kob131

Yeah, gonna have to call you out there.

This is the scene being referenced in Volume 8, Episode 5: "Amity"

Another scene in the next episode, "Midnight", implies that whatever Watts was doing was well withing Salem's plans-

And the famous Watts/Cinder scene in Episode 10, "Ultimatum", confirms this.

werewolf-cuddles

Anyway, if you want to ACTUALLY help, instead of just engaging in performative keyboard warrior bullshit, consider donating to Amnesty UK, the organization that JK Rowling's trans-exclusionary organization Beira's Place is threatening to destroy with legal action for having the nerve to criticize them in a report they already successfully intimidated them into withdrawing.

spectralpixelsredone

Not trying to defend RWBY here but would they even be seen as war criminals in-universe like I doubt anyone even knows them that well to know what they did

kob131

'What they did'

You act as if they did anything other than lie twice. Which cool, that's bad. But not a war crime. And if this is about the Fall of Atlas, to argue it is their fault is to basically say James has no agency and is only capable of acting on impulse.

spectralpixelsredone

Yeah, I agree Ironwood wasn't innocent. Like aside from lying to Ironwood and going behind their back, Ironwood did kinda go nuts, granted they def. didn't help. Also technically its everyone fault since RWBY added gasoline to a fire that was Ironwood, and Salem's group helped finish it off.

kob131

You know what? That is the most sane retelling of the events I have seen in a long while.

I'm taking that, thank you.

spectralpixelsredone

Not trying to defend RWBY here but would they even be seen as war criminals in-universe like I doubt anyone even knows them that well to know what they did

kob131

'What they did'

damnfandomproblems

Fandom Problem #15,868:

Fans don't like characters themselves, just the stereotype they can force them in

armedweiss

Penny's lacking control in her life and being forced to do things she doesn't want to is the central tragedy of her character. She's on the opposite end of the spectrum of Ironwood the control freak, she's the one who gets pushed around by others and having no real choices that she can make in her life. A lot of it is easily attributable to Ironwood's controlling tendencies. The real tragedy of her situation is that when she tries to take control over her life she suffers shortly after

Fixing RWBY completely butchered this aspect of Penny's character

Penny isn't allowed to out herself as a robot in the Beacon era because Ironwood believes that the world isn't ready for that information yet

In Volume 2 Ironwood forbade her from even speaking to her friends at Beacon in retaliation for her going off on her own

In Volume 3 Penny is planning to disobey Ironwood and stay at Beacon, to be with the people she cares about. Unfortunately, CEM had other plans. They rig the Vytal matches so that Pyrrha would be her opponent, and Emerald makes her hallucinate causing her to push her semblance to full power killing Penny in the process

FRWBY keeps this basically unchanged, although Penny gets hacked when fighting Pyrrha in addition to that

Come the Atlas arc and Penny has been rebuilt stronger than ever and is now the Protector of Mantle. While she takes a lot of pride in her duty as Protector, and she clearly wants to keep the people safe, due to Ironwood's lack of care for Mantle and the massive hole in its defenses she's on constant active duty. Penny is overjoyed at RWBYJNR arriving in Atlas in part because she can be with people that she cares about again. Her job as Protector of Mantle leaves her so busy she "doesn't have time for friends" according to Ironwood

FRWBY's version of the Atlas arc is where things start getting weird. While Penny is very busy in FRWBY as well, for one thing she's part of a dedicated team now, Strike Team 32 with Flynt Neon and Ciel as her partners and Clover as the leader. This entirely takes away from her being alone and "having no time for friends" that she had in canon

On top of this, Penny "being busy" is due to her actively avoiding spending time with Ruby. She's doing this out of fear of breaking their relationship because when she died at Amity her memory drive was destroyed, leaving her with almost none of her memories. In canon she basically has no choice but to avoid her old teammates and friends due to her duty as Protector of Mantle. In FRWBY, her avoiding Ruby is entirely her own choice

During the Atlas council meeting, Ironwood tries to appease the council's concerns about Penny by saying "Penny is under my complete control," something that Penny is clearly uncomfortable with and ends up being some devious foreshadowing for V8

Due to Penny not being framed for Tyrian's murders in this continuity due to the cut election plot, Penny isn't even at the Atlas council meeting. We also never get any sort of equivalent of Ironwood's statement either

While Penny becoming the Winter Maiden is for the best as we obviously don't want Cinder or Ironwood to obtain the power, she never wanted this power. On top of this her gaining the maiden powers and leaving Ironwood ends up putting a literal target the size of Atlas on her back which would begin a domino effect of choices that would end in her demise

In FRWBY Penny was Ironwood's choice for maidenhood from the start. She shows no moral problems with Fria's treatment, no doubts on if she should or even can receive the power, no feeling like she's trapped by her position into taking the power. Nothing

In Volume 8 we're even shown that Pietro can take full control of her, which he does to access the Atlas terminal. While he would obviously never do this without her consent, the fact that this feature was built into her is a worrying sign and once again plays into this theme. Penny even shows a lot of hesitancy right before this happens, she's clearly uncomfortable with it but knows this needs to happen

Throughout Volume 8 Penny repeats a sentiment similar to "I guess we all have things we do not wish to do that we must." When she gives ideas to Pietro, she gets shot down by him multiple times due to him worrying so much of her safety. Or other people will bring up the idea of Penny always being told what to do. All of these play into this theme

I won't be surprised when Celtic inevitably doesn't include anything resembling any of this material in V8. Or if he does include it it'll be out of nowhere and weaker than canon since he dropped this aspect of her character for V7

All these changes in the Atlas arc not only completely remove the theme of control from Penny, it pulls double duty by reducing Ironwood's controlling nature. The switch to memory loss doesn't play into this theme at all because everything Penny does in FRWBYV7 is entirely of her own volition. Unless you want to think of it in the most esoteric way that her lack of memories removes control because she wouldn't act this way if she had them, but I highly doubt that was the direction Celtic was going for. Celtic Phoenix either completely missed the point of Penny's themes, or he did know better but fucked it up regardless

armedweiss

Control is a core theme that surrounds Penny and Ironwood. Both act on the opposite sides of the spectrum for this theme which reaches its apex in Volume 8. Fixing RWBY completely butchered this dynamic they share. I had so much to say about this theme and FRWBY's handling of it that I split it into thee parts

On one side of this coin we have Ironwood, a man driven by paranoia that NEEDS everything to go exactly as he wants it or it's not good enough, and he won't have it any other way. In other words he's a control freak, and these tendencies only get worse as the series goes on

He brought an army to Vale as a show of force to try intimidating the Fang and other criminals into submission. He stabbed Oz in the back so that he could be head of Amity's security, thinking that it's for the best he be in charge

By having two of the five seats in Atlas' council he has disproportionate power and it would take the entire rest of the council to vote against him to say no to his policies. In Volume 4 he outright says that if Oz just did whatever he said the Fall if Beacon wouldn't have happened which is factually false since it was the robots HE wanted to show off getting hacked that turned the tide of the Fall into a truly unwinnable situation

He started a Dust embrargo due to fearing that Salem would take the resources for her own purposes, something that she isn't even hurt by. He then closed the borders trying to keep her faction out of Atlas which doesn't even work with with how easily they all slip in

In Volume 7 he turned Mantle into a police surveillance state so that he could keep an eye out for Salem's agents and any potential dissent against Atlas. On top of this he completely isolates Fria so that he could guarantee that her maiden powers would transfer to Winter. In other words controlling the next maiden and guaranteeing that she'll be his loyal soldier

He refuses to tell anybody anything about Amity or Salem outside of his inner circle and immediate allies until the big planned announcement, fearing that telling anybody else would leak this secret of Amity before it's done. When Robyn rightfully takes back the resources meant for Mantle that he's illegally repurposing, he decides to have RWBYJNR and the Ace-Ops arrest her rather than bend even a little bit on telling her what's happening. Jacques and the Atlas council rightfully point out that he's burned away any trust he had due to his policies and need for absolute secrecy. Ironwood needs complete control over the information on Amity's existence even when his secrecy hurts him

Ironwood's treatment of Penny ties incredibly heavily into this theme, refusing to allow her choices that she'd rather make. Either "for her own good" or the good of others. More for on this in her part

When he realizes that someone told Robyn about Amity, he considers it a betrayal of loyalty. Loyalty to him and his decisions, rather than a violation of trust or people trying to navigate a messy situation that they didn't agree with his approach. When RWBY stands against his decision to leave Mantle to die, rather than try to talk things out he puts out an arrest warrant on them JNR and Qrow because how DARE they not mindlessly go along with his plan. When Oscar tries to talk him out of the plan, he decides he's had enough of people disagreeing with him and literally shoots him off of Atlas

A lot of people consider Ironwood shooting Sleet to be character assassination so Volume 8 and CRWBY are bad because of this. Clearly, these people are stupid. He just tried to kill Oscar in cold blood hours ago for the crime of trying to change his mind, he was being entirely non-hostile or confrontational. Shooting Sleet also sends a clear message to everybody in that room, reminder that Winter and the Ace-Ops are there as well. The message being to not do or say ANYTHING that goes against his decisions, he is DONE hearing any contrary opinions. He is in control of Atlas now, and if you dare do anything against that then this is what will happen to you

FRWBY mostly retained this stuff in V2-4, but tries to sanitize Ironwood of this flaw in the Atlas arc. Despite this it still ends up retaining this theme in a strange way

Ironwood in FRWBY is considering becoming the Architect of Atlas, which would make him its dictator. Something he eventually follows through on. If anything embodies being in control of something, being dictator of a nation would do it. But it's so blatant compared to canon it's kinda laughable. In episode 2 of the Atlas arc FRWBY Ironwood's spelling out that he's going to become a dictator, it's so much less subtle and has so much less dread and tension on if the heroes can convince him away from his darker impulses

He doesn't turn Mantle into a police surveillance state until after he decides to go through on becoming dictator 2/3rds through Volume 7

He gets furious at Robyn for stealing from a Schnee supply ship, but doesn't try to get her arrested unless she's caught doing something like that again. According to him his position of having two seats on the Atlas council makes his orders and authority absolute unless the entire council votes against him. This is an incredibly strange thing in regards to this theme

On one hand he retains his canon disproportionate power and control over the Atlas council. On the other, he seriously doesn't try to arrest Robyn for this? He didn't know that she and the Happy Huntresses were looting from the ship he just sent RWBY there to investigate. But after learning she did that and abused her authority, he just yells at her and gets mad?

Any and all dynamics Ironwood had for his controlling tendencies of Penny in the Atlas arc are removed entirely

Of the three parts of this theme of Control, I'd say Ironwood retains it the best, as he ends up sticking the closest to canon. However, Celtic's rewrites still end up weakening this or makes it significantly stranger and unclear. Whether Celtic ever realized this theme exists himself or ended up retaining it on accident is unknown

kob131

I'll repeat: yay, the rotting of James' character.

First: "Thee". Might wanna fix that.

Second: Again, James is so weird in FRWBY-Atlas. Celtic is clearly trying to address the 'James was unfairly villainized!' crowd but he's also adamant that his work is better than the original that he HAS to villainize James. So he's trying to soften James up but not only is that not what those people want (at best, they want James to be equal to Team RWBY, at worst they want him to be right), the whole 'architect' thing just makes James look like he's power hungry. Because in canon, James took power out of a rash decision at the end of V7 in response to an immortal witch showing up at his doorstep, his men are exhausted. Now, Salem is a present but still distant threat and he's grabbing for power. Stop creating the problems people complain about.

His stuff even makes sense for him to do from his perspective. Who the fuck cares if he shoots Sleet? He shot the man he went down onto one knee to see: this means nothing to him. You don't need to remove the actions, just do what you always do and add more. Celtic had it so close and he bungled it.

Makima would absolutely despise me if she went to my house at Christmas time. Ever since 2020, my family has a Christmas tradition of watching 3 of the worst movies I can find. It started with Christmas movies, but in 2024 it graduated to bad movies in general. Santa and the Ice Cream Bunny, Theodore Rex, The Live Action Popeye, Battlefield Earth, and the Star Wars Holiday Special are by far the worst ones I've had us see.

Just gonna...jot those down. I could use a refresher on bad media.

Any thoughts on Reborn/Rejuvination?

I think maybe holding back the edge and doing things a bit more subdued would have helped Reborn.

Tbh what Pokemon Uranium gets right is exactly why I can't get into Rejuvenation or Reborn. Feels like they try way too hard to be "mature" and "edgy" and worst of all feel like they prioritize having an edgy jrpg plot line over focusing on the actual Pokémon themselves. Not even getting to how they handle certain topics.

Yeah...Insurgence's writing was...not the best in hindsight. Uranium's, once again, did have that quiet and subdued maturity to it that made it feel truly mature and serious.

I'm curious, since you don't like Saber Alter as she is, what do you believe a more accurate 'Alter' version of her would be like? Also, are there any other 'Alters' you think got the idea done better?

Funnily enough, as I've said before, I think LB Morgan is more like a Saber Alter. Granted, it's probably because she's meant to be narratively like an Alter to Castoria, and Castoria is already extraordinarily like Saber. And she does seem a lot like Saber Alter.

But the difference is that 1- Morgan truly went against her ideals and acknowledges she did. There's no attempt at saying she's still a hero or that her tyranny can build the kingdom she wanted: she is a tyrant, she knows that her methods cannot build that kingdom and the story acknowledges that.

2- Morgan actually does struggle with that side of herself. She doesn't like what she's become and feels a sense of shame and sadness at that. Salter just does a 180 and becomes a heartless king, no struggle required.

And 3- Morgan does actually emote and show humanity more than Salter does. That's actually a huge issue with me because a huge part of Saber's character is that she shows subtle hints at who she truly is underneath her persona, those small moments of kindness and warmth. Morgan does the same thing but recontextualizes it as her pain and suffering leaking out. Salter, again, didn't really do that in her original appearances. And the times she has have effectively been retcons.

Maybe that doesn't sound right. I recognize that it sounds a bit crazy myself. Well, what about the Lion King? The Lion King goes in the opposite direction of Morgan: Instead of being about abandoning one's ideals and how unsatisfying that makes things, the Lion King is about taking Arturia's ideals too far. The Lion King has the same on paper one that Arturia does: Save the people. But Arturia cared about the humanity in people while Salter only superficially doesn't (in reality, she's just a flat asshole). But the Lion King truly disregards the humanity of her people: she only cares about saving people. Whether or not those people are happy or not isn't really her concern. The Lion King also shockingly CAN show just a shred of humanity, at least towards Agravain in his final moments. It's just that she sees herself as above humanity, like the people of Camelot did with Arturia. She may not struggle with herself...but she doesn't NEED to as a villain. Salter, meanwhile, we're meant to see as a 'dark hero'.

Hell, even Mordred can work as an Alter to Arturia. Another key aspect to Arturia is her devotion to chivalry and knightly ideals. Mordred, at least on the surface, rejects chivalry and takes a 'do everything I can to win' approach. Arturia is reserved, kind and courteous; Mordred is wild, cruel and rude (again, on the surface). Arturia relates to the common man and treasures them, Mordred doesn't give a shit about the common man (once again, on the surface). If you took the base concept of Mordred and simply took a different direction, you would get an Alter of Arturia.

I've been saying for a while now but Salter's issues are that she's a flat as hell character. And not even a good kind of flat where she teaches other characters about themselves, or a fun villain that you want to see taken down. She doesn't struggle with her beliefs, former or current, at all. She tries pushing the idea that she's both a tyrant and a hero but she doesn't have the virtues of someone like Iskander: she's just an unacknowledged paradox. She was buffed to hell and back in Heaven's Feel by having Sakura as a Master...and then they chose to ignore her limitations in literally every other appearence she gets. And she keeps being treated as if she's some heroic character as all aspects of her go against that. She's the fucking Sung Jinwoo of Fate, except Jinwoo actually struggled at some point.

As for other Alters: ...Not many, really. Alters end up just being an excuse to slap a black and edgy paint job on an already well liked character. I'd say Arjuna Alter is the best simply because Arjuna always had those darker impulses and he has the capacity for heroism due to his trauma. Same with Marie Alter to a lesser extent, since this character and the OG Marie probably should have been fused together but eh.

Everyone else is just 'edgy black paint job' or 'intentional subversion of the Alter concept'. Says a lot that the OG Jalter is the most well liked...and not even an actual Alter.

kob131

"Aw man, isn't Saber Alter so cool?"

There is about 26 feet of intestinal track in the human body. If every inch of it was engraved with the word 'hate', it would not begin to fathom the hatred I have.

There is about 86 million neurons in the human brain. If every single one of them sent the electrical signal corresponding to 'hate', you would scratch the surface of the hatred I have.

There are 7x10*27 atoms in the human body. If etched on the nucleus of each one was the word 'hate', you would begin to see the depths of my hatred.

I hate Saber Alter. I hate her stupid edgy design with that dumb face mask. I hate her frozen face that never moves. I hate her 'black holy sword'. I hate her plain looking black armor. I hate how she gets treated as the strongest shit ever when a fucking child hooked up to as much mana as she gets could accomplish the same shit with half the smugness. I hate how the sword that once symbolized glorious victory gets darkened. I hate how the franchise tries to gaslight you into thinking she gives a shit about anything when she just acts like a stone faced bitch in her damn route. I hate how the franchise tries to act like the kind, noble Arturia is ANYTHING like that cruel fucker aside from stretching her king persona too far. I hate how surface level her take on a corrupted Arturia is. I hate that her fight forces Shirou to repress his memories of Arturia (as if I wasn't already upset at how it deletes his memory of Kiritsugu). I hate how she wins against Berserker not through any kind of clever tactics or strength of will but rather 'infinite mana go brrrr.' I hate how she openly abandons her ideals, that which makes Arturia WHO SHE IS and defines her entire character, with no god damn struggles or conflicts to show for it. And I hate how she's still around despite being outdated and outdone since 2012.

No, she's not fucking cool. She's some kid's idea of cool painted over an actual cool character.

armedweiss

I love Penny so much. She's such an unbelievably lovable character, with a beautifully tragic arc about a lack of control in her own life. Her death in the Atlas arc is the biggest gut punch in RWBY for me, I cried the hardest I ever have for the series there. Top 3 character in the series, I wouldn't change a single thing about her

Celtic Phoenix significantly changed things about Penny Polendina

She first appears about halfway through FRWBY Volume 1 rather than the very end, and she gets a few extra slice of life scenes in Volume 2. I won't exactly complain about more Penny, but this can only work with Celtic's bullshit infinite time money and hindsight scenario

Volume 3 is where her real changes start

During the FRWBY Vytal festival, Penny has an encounter with Pyrrha's semblance that causes her to start glitching out from the damage done to her circuitry. She goes to one of the Atlas' ships to get repaired, which leaves her open to get hacked by Neo using one of Watts' viruses

During Penny's fight with Pyrrha, the virus implanted in her forces her to try killing Pyrrha. She dies exactly like canon anyway, Emerald making Pyrrha hallucinate included

I hate this. A lot. FRWBYV3 aired in July 2019. Canon V7 started in November of the same year, so Celtic had no way of knowing about Penny getting hacked, meaning in hindsight he screwed himself over. Ironic considering how much Celtic relies on hindsight to cushion himself and pat himself on the back as better than CRWBY

If Penny gets hacked again in FRWBYV8, not only would it be redundant due to her first hack, but if he doesn't then it would be yet again another thing that makes FRWBY increasingly unrecognizable from canon. Celtic unwittingly put himself in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation

Far more importantly though, this hack is a complete thematic misfire. Penny's central motif is a lack of control in her life as others essentially make decisions for her. Her canonical hack is the apex of this theme as Ironwood the control freak robs her of her agency entirely

Now you could argue that Watts hacking Penny in FRWBY stems from bitter feelings since he made the aura transfer technology in this universe, but no. Again, FRWBYV3 ended before canon V7 started, Celtic had no way to know about Watts' canonical backstory and this would be over SIX YEARS before he would finally write down and change Watts' backstory from canon. So no, I'm not giving him a pass for this

I haven't seen any of his reviews, but between Celtic's obsession with things being "smart, pragmatic, or logical" and him using hindsight to "better plan out" FRWBY tells me that he's the kind of person that hates stories that don't have every major beat planned from the start and thinks it's bad writing. It's not one to one but there's significant overlap in that venn diagram in my experience. It doesn't inherently bother me when a story isn't planned super long term. But by his very own metric Celtic can go fuck himself for not planning this shit, at best this is a happy accident that fell into his lap

In FRWBYV7, Penny in addition to being the Protector of Mantle is part of Strike Team 32, Celtic's stand-in for the Ace-Ops since he wrote them out of the story. THIS is a complete misfire as well. Penny in canon and FRWBY is too individualistic to just be part of Ironwood's elite squad of yes-men. In canon she actively fights against the notion that you should suppress your emotions in order to be a better soldier, ideologically she's far closer to the main cast than she is to Atlas

Even from a character design standpoint, Penny and the rest of Strike Team 32 doesn't fit as Ironwood's soldiers. The Ace-Ops wear white and dark blue outfits with red and black accents, the same as Ironwood which is a visual hint of who they'll side with when he turns against the main cast. In canon and FRWBY, Penny's color scheme is nothing like the Ace-Ops. And yet, Penny in FRWBY stays fully loyal to Ironwood even at the end of the volume

In canon Pietro leaves breadcrumbs for the audience of Penny's return since he knows about team RWBY through his daughter. The main cast doesn't really know anyone else in Atlas, so who could it be but Penny? Penny kills all the remaining Sabyrs that the main cast were fighting, and once she realizes that Ruby's right in front of her she goes for a big tackle hug

Our first scene of FRWBY Penny in the Atlas arc is her killing a giant crab grimm in one blast of her lasers that's about to kill Ruby. After processing that she's back Ruby runs up to give Penny a big tackle hug giving us a big happy reunion. No sign of Pietro here. Rather strangely, when RWBYJNRQRN get arrested by Strike Team 32 Penny just plays along with it. The fuck?

Penny is Ironwood's choice to become the next winter maiden, completely isolating Fria just like canon. Come the end of the volume and that's exactly what happens

The fuck? Winter not becoming the next maiden by Ironwood's plan wasn't a mistake in canon's writing. Isolating Fria to try and force who the next maiden will be is a morally bankrupt method of trying to obtain the power, and Fria couldn't even remember Winter before her death but could remember the mission given to pass on the power. Penny in canon forged a brief but genuine connection to her, which is why she received the power which plays into the themes of the Atlas arc. Having her be the planned maiden and have Ironwood's plan go off without a hitch completely misses the point of what the original's going for

If anything Winter should be the one to receive the maiden powers at the end of the volume given how she's the one who has doubts of Ironwood a LOT earlier than she does in canon. Celtic seems to have flipped their roles in respect to their loyalties to Ironwood

During a political rally Robyn's hosting RWBY and FNCP work together as bodyguards. Ruby and Penny have a heart to heart about being happy to reunite, and yet Penny looks increasingly more hurt any time Ruby brings up the past

After Watts hacks a bunch of Schnee Dust bots to destroy every Schnee greenhouse, Ruby Weiss Penny Ciel and Flynt are sent to investigate it. Penny figures out that it was a hack that caused all the damage, and Ruby mentions how this brings back bad memories of Penny getting hacked. Penny looks briefly hurt and Ruby realizes what she said was insensitive, but Penny says most of her memories of her hack were corrupted and destroyed so she plays it off. Strangely, she refers to the Schnee Dust bots as her siblings, even though FRWBYV2 just like canon made it clear that the standard Atlas bots are nothing like her

We're given a brief scene of Penny looking at a bunch of merchandise themed after herself. I'm unsure of what exactly this is supposed to mean here. If it's trying to play into her status as Protector of Mantle, this is the only thing FRWBY does for this. Maybe some subtle foreshadowing since some of the merch includes a figurine of her?

Ruby and Penny work together with Pietro to find whatever it is that's leaking Atlas intel to outsiders, that being Robyn's thumb drive. However, this is where tensions between Ruby and Penny hit their boiling point. Throughout FRWBYV7 Penny is "unfortunately unable to spend time with Ruby" due to all the missions she's getting assigned, but Ruby can tell something's off. Ruby eventually confronts her on this, feeling like she's avoiding her which she is

The reason? Back when she died to Pyrrha, her memory core was split in half. We actually see this back in V3 but we're given the now false hope that she could still be salvaged. Nearly all of her memories from before getting rebuilt are gone, the only thing she has left of Ruby is a vague feeling of trust in her. Penny has been avoiding Ruby intentionally so that she can avoid revealing this because she's scared of breaking the friendship she can't recall. Neither of them can tell if this means that the Penny right now is a different person from the one who died at Amity, but they do reconcile at the end of the scene

Now if Penny were to make another return in canon with her memories wiped due to her dying as a human with no memory core, I wouldn't inherently be against this. The problem is that this entirely replaces Penny's canon Atlas arc and themes

On top of this Celtic, the author and narrator, goes so far as to call her THIS Penny once she reveals that she has almost none of her memories, and Penny refers to herself as "This Unit" after the reveal. In Celtic's own mind, the Penny we knew that died in Amity is truly gone. Maybe that's why she's acting out of character she's a different Penny entirely

To add to the strangeness, Penny refers to herself as "this unit" and Beacon Penny as "my previous self." RWBY as a series fully treats Penny as a person, it never uses this kind of techno-robotics language to describe her aside from the villains who obviously don't respect her personhood. In the Atlas arc Penny doesn't treat her Beacon era self as a different person by any means, she's just Penny. FRWBY Penny does even though she still has some of her old memories

To be fair to Celtic, Penny's memory wipe is clearly to act as a mirror to how Ruby could end up becoming, since Silver Eyes in this universe erase the user's memories. But I still hate the silver eye rewrite, and I hate this Penny memory wipe as well

In canon Penny acts as a contrast to Winter and the rest of Atlas' military. After Winter's outburst during the council meeting and leaving the room, she expresses frustration at "acting like a petulant child" by allowing her anger to slip out. Penny, the robot with a soul who was quite literally built to be a military arrest, thinks that she was simply speaking from her heart and sees nothing wrong with her outburst

When Penny and Winter learn about Ironwood planning to abandon Mantle to die their responses are drastically different. Winter tries to rationalize his actions as a "needs of the many" type of situation, even though she really doesn't like it. Penny though hates the decision at every level and "Fails to see what is good about any of this," a pretty clear hint that she'll abandon him once the opportunity arises

When Winter is falling to her death in their fight against Cinder, Penny saves her to Winter's indignation. According to Winter "My life doesn't matter," which plays into the military culture of being a worthless cog that's only as good as your usefulness, how you should be callously thrown away and replaced the microinstant you have no value left. Penny disagrees, she simply saved her because it was the right thing to do

Any relationship or dynamic that Penny had with Winter has been completely removed in FRWBY. The only scene they share real dialogue in is asking if she and Winter knew each other before dying at Amity, but they were basically complete strangers back then so no dice

Come the climax of Volume 7 and Penny gets sent to Atlas' vault with Winter to stop "Ruby" (Neo in disguise) from taking the relics inside. Despite the fact that Penny explicitly has feelings of trust in Ruby despite her lack of memories, and the two of them reconciling earlier this volume, we never hear her thoughts on Ruby's apparent betrayal. No doubts if it's real, no thinking that maybe Ruby has a reason for this, nothing. Fucking nothing. Just do Ironwood's orders like the mindless soulless robot she shouldn't be

They meet Cinder and have a fight with her, but unlike canon there's no dialogue or dynamics in the fight at all. It's just a fight, making it worse than canon. This is a rewrite that actually started including mid-battle banter starting in V5 too so Celtic just didn't think any talking was necessary here. Also, despite Fria being an active participant the entire time unlike in canon, Cinder still manages to escape once Ruby arrives

Fria dies, Penny becomes the winter maiden exactly as planned, tells Ruby that she's "Accepting her responsibility," and she flies after Cinder at Winter's orders. WHAT THE FUCK??? Ruby is RIGHT THERE and you don't have Penny confront her on her seeming betrayal? Okay Celtic

Unable to find Cinder she flies to Ironwood's office. Our final scene of Penny is her and Winter watching the Atlas military about to enact martial law in Mantle

As I stated at the start of the post, I love Penny so much. She's one of my favorite characters in anything. Seeing Celtic completely butcher her in every way possible hurts. A LOT

Now, obviously Penny isn't done in FRWBY, the Atlas arc is only halfway done. But I really, REALLY don't like the direction Celtic took with her

In a literal and metatextual sense, at every single level, this isn't Penny at all. Her central theme of lacking control was completely stripped away for a theme that Celtic completely made up in the form of memory loss. Her dynamics with everybody that isn't Ruby have been completely erased. Hell the narrative itself brings up the question if this is even the same Penny we knew

She went from someone who turns against Ironwood shortly after she hears of his betrayal of Mantle, to being as blindly loyal to Ironwood as the Ace-Ops did in canon despite Celtic's attempts to scrub Atlas of that military culture. We don't even see her thoughts on Ironwood becoming a dictator even though he makes the move to do so by the end of the volume

Penny in FRWBY shares nothing in common with her canon counterpart, and this time it feels intentional given the memory wipe and "this unit" talk. Just like Raven her central theme was destroyed for something completely unrelated. Just like Neo she had her agency and independence stolen. Just like Winter her arc is unrecognizable from canon. Completely overhauling one of RWBY's best characters like this, doesn't "fix" RWBY. To put it bluntly, this is Penny In Name Only

kob131

Okay so I'm gonna be starting this one off differently than usual: I'm gonna be criticizing canon here.

Penny's death in V3 was, frankly, kind of cheap. Not in a logical sense, as Pyrrha was clearly set up as being frightened and losing control. But rather- That it didn't feel like a good end to Penny as a character. So much of Penny's story, from developing her friendship with Ruby to exploring her connection to James to even the core of her character in the insecurity of her 'inhumanity'- none of that was properly finished...or even explored. Contrast this with Pyrrha, how she actually shows her feelings for Jaune and lives up to her reputation not just in strength but more importantly in nobility of character. There is a powerful irony of how Pyrrha feared being held on a pedestal because it removed her from others...when she was exactly the kind of person who should be admired. In comparison: Penny feels like she was killed off because she was the cute robot girl and it would be tragic.

Not only that, to go to bat for Celtic again: Penny losing her memories isn't something he pulled out of his ass. This was actually brought up in the V7 commentaries by Kerry as something they toyed with and explored, explicitly saying that it would be about Ruby trying to be friends with someone who didn't know her, but this was cut because they wanted an immediate satisfying moment and because V7 was, as always, overstuffed. This is actually why Yang was made to be an alcoholic in V1-3: She was described as a party girl in interviews about the Yellow Trailer. But unlike there, Celtic is actually doing his job and sticking close to a concept from canon...theorectially.

Issue here is Celtic monkeying with canon again.

Penny died from her own wires wrapping her up and cutting off her limbs because it was a fucked up but subtler way of showing how she was used by Cinder and co. She dies because she was basically severed by the strings controlling her, that's part of why her death hits so viscerally. People understand that symbolism intuitively. A hacking virus does carry similar weight...but is quite a bit less subtle. Fine in canon, as the virus doesn't kill her. Not so much here.

And Penny being folded into the Ace-Ops, killing her individuality, also fucks with James' character. James did pressure Penny to be a soldier in canon but violating her individuality didn't come until Volume 8. Because for a show all about that, violating Penny's individuality by having Watts hack her showcases how far James has fallen. Now while yes, James pressuring her into such a position isn't the same as James literally defying her free will: it still shows a kind of dehumanization that James in canon was less guilty of. Just more of an example of the rotting of James' character.

Then we have the memory loss and how it specifically interacts with Penny staying with James. We can't say much about canon here because they explicitly dropped this idea before it was even incorporated into the scripts but considering that the script ending in Penny siding with heroes wouldn't really be affected by this- it's pretty likely that Penny WOULDN'T side with James. Because Penny sided with Ruby and everyone only half because of her faith in Ruby. The other half is because Penny as a person does not want to sacrifice others for a mission. That fact is the reason why I think the connection you stated between Penny and Winter might actually exist: Penny follows her heart unlike Winter. So even if she doesn't fully remember Ruby, Penny wouldn't shove down her feelings about LEAVING HER PEOPLE TO DIE. If anything, Penny should fuck off and be a neutral party until a later date, returning when she's made a decision.

And going off if Penny does actually use that dehumanizing language for herself: I can actually see why people would object to the Pyrrha statue because of her stated fears, even if I think stuff is way more complicated. This is like the Pyrrha statue, except striking at the core of her character. Penny is deeply insecure about her supposed 'inhumanity' and her character is about the irony of that, that she was more human than several actual flesh and blood humans. Similar point to 'it's a parallel with Ruby's Silver Eyes': That's not what the Silver Eyes are meant to be, Celtic.

Now maybe there's a miscommunication here. Maybe Celtic did intend on a theme of losing control with Penny's memory loss, how she feels trapped to her duty to the general or something. This stuff can happen. ... I doubt it since Celtic actively talks about his decision making as a part of FRWBY's very concept so it's way easier to read unlike canon. And frankly: the memor loss things just sounds like using a discarded element from the planning stages in canon; discarded because of a lack of resources, Celtic; to justify having James not lose here. Might be my own bias talking and I'll admitr my view isn't worth much here. But fuck it, I don't care. There were easier ways of doing this. The story has literally been written for you Celtic, you're a supposed editor too: You shouldn't be fucking with the story THIS much. If you want to be creative: make another book. At least that would be YOUR work.

"Well, LB Morgan shows respect for Mordred!"

...Look, I don't wanna rain on anyone's parade or try to over-villainize LB Morgan. But Morgan in both iterations is meant to be a complex character without a lot of clear cut aspects. With LB Morgan and how she views Mordred...well-

Creating a copy of Artoria? Was the me from Pan-Human History so obsessed…!? ── Ah, no, forget it. I of all people lost my composure. Mordred… Quite a decent work. To fail after making such a pawn, damn me… No, I succeeded?

She made a copy of Altria!? Was the Proper Human History of me THAT obsessed!? …No, forget I said that. It was a slip of the tongue. Mordred… I must say, she is well made. How could I fail after crafting such an excellent pawn? Wait, I succeeded?

These are the lines LB Morgan has for Mordred, the first beinga translation of the JP lines while the second is the official localized English lines. There are some slight differences, but the overall meaning is the same.

Yes, LB Morgan views Mordred as 'competent'....the same way you view your car as competent, or your fridge as competent, or closer: a chair you made as competent. In other words: LB Morgan sees Mordred as an object rather than as a person.

If you don't believe me, here's her line for Gawain/Gareth:

My children from Pan-Human History, huh. I can't imagine myself taking care of children, but… Without taking after me, I raised some good knights.

My children in Proper Human History… I cannot imagine being blessed with children… But they seem to have grown into upstanding knights, unlike me.

Both knights are like undistorted rays of sunshine. There was more to the Proper-Human Morgan than just vengefulness, and those two can be taken as proof of that.

(The third is taken from Morgan's character materials)

As you can see, unlike with Mordred, her lines for Gareth and Gawain don't carry the same manipulative, object-like tone. She views them as people, unlike Mordred.

Now I don't think this means she's emotionally abusive towards Mordred like her PHH self was, in fact her character materials contradict this...in the saddest fucking way possible.

We sometimes pass by each other in the hallways, and every time we do, she passes by me gnawing her teeth with an expression that can be interpreted as either hatred, resignation, or sadness. It's almost vexing that I have nothing I can say to her.

Morgan is implied to just not interact with Mordred at all. Probably for the best, since Mordred doesn't even respect her mother like she does Arturia. But LB Morgan isn't abusive. It's likely because, since she considers herself a kind of 'continuation' of PHH Morgan, she just goes off of what PHH Morgan felt. So that's seething resent for Arturia, a kind of hidden love for Gawain and Gareth...and a detached, dehumanizing view for Mordred.

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