@lynee_ill (Instagram)
For those participating in the "Where did she smile" ARG or anyone interested in the question, I feel like what the answer is building up to is really really specific.
Obviously, it's not as simple as just Noelle smiling from happiness (we see her smile in her talk sprite). It has to be like, an authentic smile that somehow happens in the Weird Route, like a moment that finally cements Noelle's dedication to this path/the moment we take full control of her.
I'm 101% certain that the answer is where a massive sequence break in Deltarune's narrative occurs.
Noelle's source of unhappiness is a past she can't control and her perceived powerlessness in guiding her own future and destiny.
Meanwhile, Deltarune as a whole is about contemplating what it means to live in a world that is confirmed to be pre-destined. Metanarratively, this is the code of Deltarune and how stories, especially games, cannot change due to being constructed by static choices and consequences.
...And Noelle's special gift is to find glitches. To break games.
As the SOUL in the Weird Route, we're not just forcing Noelle to be our 2nd playable puppet. We're gaslighting her into believing she is becoming strong by our commands.
What I think the "smile" actually is, is the moment that Noelle's labor in the Weird Route pays off and she finally gives complete consent to our control. She's "smiling" because this is where she finally (or at least belives) she's become "strong" and can control her own fate.
Where does she smile? Where the narrative finally breaks apart through her own hands.
Massive AT fan, but I'm really not feeling it for Side Quests.
Adventure Time is all about growth and how the passage of time affects your life, so seeing things go backwards kinda bums me out. Together Again being such a great series finale that Finn's story really should've ended there.
Especially when Fionna and Cake has shown that Ooo is still extremely interesting in its current state, even without Finn.
Recently caught up with the JJK anime and heard that Gosso (the animation director for S2 and S3) isn't coming back and might be done with animation. It's a shame beyond words.
...and then I look up any fight scene on YouTube and they're ALL 60 FPS interpolated slop and then realize maybe we never deserved him.
Despite how popular it is, I weirdly don't see people mention my personal favorite justification for the SOMA Theory.
If the circus members are just digital scans of the real people they're based on, they are effectively AI that have been lost without a purpose. Just like Caine. Who could never fit in or talk together because of their fundamental differences.
And when Caine comes back (which he totally will), that'll finally be what allows Caine to befriend the group for real. All of them stuck in this shitty, but shared experience.
DELTARUNE THEORY: What is Darker Than Dark Pt 1– Ranking all Darker Than Dark Entities
PRELUDE:
Darker yet Darker.
Darker than Dark.
Ugh.
Ever since Entry 17 was datamined in Undertale way back, I’ve been obsessed with these words.
For. 9. Agonizing. Years.
Toby’s been screwing us with us for nearly a decade, making us do endless guesses about one of the most childish-sounding concepts ever.
Even knowing that Entry 17 was a teaser for Deltarune as a whole, the concept of “darkness” is still surprisingly ill-defined.
“Darkness” is weird in Deltarune. It doesn’t represent evil like it does in most fantasy stories since Darkners and Dark Heroes are treated as morally neutral. But it’s oddly also associated with some sinister things such as Dark Worlds being a parasite to the Light World that must be vanquished otherwise it will risk coating the world in darkness.
Our best frame of reference as to what “darkness” is, comes from Ralsei’s explanation of Dark Worlds in Ch 3.
A room with the lights off gives you nothing. But if you remove literally all light in a room – making it darker than dark, you can see an alternate world that has always existed but was inaccessible beforehand.
Darkness doesn’t obscure your vision. It instead allows Lightners to see another perspective of their reality.
This perspective is of an alternate world that co-exists with the Light World. One where objects react to and have detailed histories of the same events.
Despite Darkners being inanimate objects in the Light World, their personalities and histories aren’t invented by the Dark World, they are actively living their lives alongside them. Lightners just can’t see these events happen. Ex: TV World and Cyber World denizens know each other because of the time the Dremurr and Holiday kids snuck Queen’s laptop into their house.
Also Tenna wouldn’t be the most divorced man ever if he didn’t emotionally live through the Dreemur divorce.
So… problem solved.
Darker than Dark = The Dark Worlds. What is there more to talk about?
Yeah, about that…
What in the world is this room?
These guys don’t look like any Darkner I’ve ever seen. Or, what about these things.
They’re in a room that’s pitch black. In a Dark World.
And what about the Roaring? Isn’t that literally coating an existing Dark World with more darkness to the point where “darkness” becomes a physical object?
And who the hell is FRIEND and why do they keep showing up in the darkest areas of a Dark World?
Goddamn it.
There’s a third realm isn’t there.
@Ash-Veil Lane
Welcome to the theory-crafting nightmare that is the Darker than Dark World.
God this name is stupid.
(From this point forward, I’ll be referring to Darker than Dark as DtD for short)
ENTITIES
Let’s do something fun first.
Let’s identify everyone that could potentially be a part of this theoretical third realm. I think doing this will be a far more digestible way to understand what DtD is than word vomiting my personal thesis on it.
So, if we really wanna take it easy, let’s look at a couple of suspicious Deltarune characters that have unique properties in their biology. If you don’t act like a traditional Darkner or Lightner, you’re on the list.
For each, I’ll give them a “DtDE Likelihood” level that ranks how likely they are to be a DtDE. (DtDE standing for Darker than Dark Entity) At least within my arbitrary theory rules on what I think they are.
What are these rules? How do I know what a DtDE is?
Luckily we do have a template, and it’s exactly who you think it is.
FRIEND
DtDE Likelihood: 1000% aka. DtDE’s Mickey Mouse
FRIEND is DtD’s animal mascot.
Everything we understand or theorize about the concept of entities beyond Darkners all comes from this guy.
For anyone who hasn’t been in the trenches trying to wrap their head on this character, here are the reasons why FRIEND is inextricably linked to Darker than Dark: (P.S it’s literally all of FRIEND’S appearances)
Ch 3: Shows up when Ralsei says the words: Darker than Dark
Ch 2: Only shows up in the literal darkest room, the roots of Cyber World.
Ch 3: Only shows up in the literal darkest sections of the S rank Minigame as eyes or summoned by ERAM. Which is also in the darkest room of TV World.
Ch 4: Silhouette sneakily shows up in the literal darkest room of the Dark Sanctuary
Spamton Sweepstakes: Jumpscares you if you repeatedly click on the chair on a page literally titled “but what if it could get darker”
Sweepstakes and Ch 4 Mike Room: Has a strange association to being a rare glitch in Cat Petterz.
Like any other Deltarune theorist sniffing their farts, I have A LOT to say about FRIEND, but I’ll hold back for now and stay on topic.
Are they really a Darkner or are they something else that needs pure darkness to sustain itself?
FRIEND’s appearances all give off the impression that it’s potentially incapable of manifesting in front of us even within the Dark World. Even then, it’s only in glimpses and they can’t talk or be interacted with.
Based on their smile and the whole “I’m-messing-with-you” nature of its appearances, I think it’s also safe to say that FRIEND is an intelligent being that is stalking Kris just around the corner. It's always around… watching.
It’s also suspicious that FRIEND can seemingly move across Dark Worlds without being an object physically brought over. Even if we’re seeing multiple FRIENDS instead of just one, there’s still no explanation for what object it could be when every other Darkner is pretty clear from their design alone.
Analyzing FRIEND this way, we can try to work around its currently known rules to judge other candidates:
Are not traditional Darkners. They seem to bend both Lightner and Darkner rules such as potentially not being an object and moving across different Dark Worlds freely without a Lightner bringing them over.
DtDEs cannot physically manifest unless they are in the darkest parts of a Dark World, which is still only fleeting. However…
Even when uninteractable in the Dark World, they must show signs that they constantly exist outside of our view, potentially within another alternate view of the world.
With the rules in place, we can FINALLY get onto the speculative candidates. No better one to start off with than:
TITANS + Titan Spawn
DtDE Level: 70% Very Likely
Passes: Titans are absolutely not based on an object and have the unique ability to create lasting damage in the Light World with how busted the church looks after Ch 4. Ralsei calls it a primal being that doesn’t truly have intelligence unlike other Darkners.
Passes. Titans can only spawn from the Roaring, which is a Dark Fountain/concentrated darkness made within a Dark World. When purified, they vanish.
Somewhat Passes: Titans seem newly born, birthed from hardened Dark Fountain pillars and don’t show any sign of existing elsewhere… however, in the darkest rooms in the Sanctuary a lone Titan Spawn constantly chases you throughout Ch 4. If it is the same one each time, it may prove that Titans are being summoned rather than created.
The biggest difference Titans has with FRIEND is that Titans don’t seem to be sentient and only seem to be born anew from a hardened fountain. They act more like newborns, acting solely on primal instinct.
It only knows how to destroy and create more darkness, which could be for reproducing other Titans.
Do all Titan-like creatures act this way? Are they even alive? And can they grow out of their newborn state and become more like FRIEND?
I’m particularly interested in why the game records whether you “kill” Titan spawn vs purifying them. Almost as if it's wrong to attack them in the same way you treat all other individuals/Darkners you fight in this series. Hmm.
There is one more valuable thing to talk about and it’s how Ralsei describes a Titan:
It’s the fear-of-dark. It’s the bump-in-the night. The shadow of the backside of your mind.
Are Titans based on concepts rather than objects? The idea that Dark World entities can also be a manifestation of a Lightner’s emotions is kinda crazy.
I find it interesting that what Ralsei defines Titans to be is pretty similar to how FRIEND haunts us. When I think of an entity in Deltarune that represents the same fear of a boogeyman under your bed that vanishes once you try proving it's real… it’s not the Titan, it’s FRIEND appearing for 1 frame before vanishing from my screen.
Could FRIEND and DtDE’s in extension also be a manifestation of “fear” itself?
And if Dark Worlds create new physical forms out of objects, could Darker than Dark Worlds create new forms out of emotions?
One last piece of the puzzle is that the red waved monster that chases you throughout Chapter 4’s dark rooms is actually a Titan Spawn.
This is actually a HUGE deal, because it proves that the Sanctuary’s dark rooms have a similar environment to the Roaring where Titans can sustain themselves.
The Titan Spawn doesn’t die when the lights are turned on, they just vanish. Is this one Titan Spawn always there, only waiting for darkness to come back so it can manifest again?
These Things
If your first reaction to seeing this is “WTF is that?!!!”, please check out kesMadgik’s video which should illuminate where these are from.
DtDE Likelihood: 70% Very Likely
Slightly Passes: They don’t seem like any Darkner we’ve ever seen before nor can they talk.
Passes: These guys are only hidden within the darkness of the Dark Sanctuary’s water fountain. So hidden in the dark that you’ll never even know that you’ve bumped into them.
???: Again, hard to say because they seem barely sentient. I doubt we “kill” these things by turning on the lights, I’d like to believe that whenever the darkness is on they reappear.
Look, the fact that these are in the game and are so obscure that you have to mod the game or look into the code to know that these exist has to mean something big.
There’s not much I can say on what these things are other than that if these guys are DtDEs, it proves that the third realm isn’t entirely composed of hostile entities. Some are just malformed or similar to plants than animals or humans.
We are absolutely seeing these guys again in the future. I promise.
Evil Gerson Statue/ Sound of Justice
DtDE Level - 60% - Likely
Slightly Passes: Ralsei calls Evil Gerson a Darkner, though is admittedly a unique case with its lack of sentience.
Passes: Evil Gerson only shows up in the darkest rooms of the Sanctuary and is vanquished when exposed to light.
???: Evil Gerson seems to just die when the lights are turned back on. Then again, that’s because Ralsei breaks it and we never come back to this room, so who knows?
Evil Gerson’s fight is kind of interesting. This is what I feel like an encounter in the Roaring would probably be like. Completely alone in an endless darkness where only sound will help you locate anything.
Generally any of the fights that use the Darkness TP mechanic is a dead ringer for Darker than Dark shenanigans (except Jackenstein).
Evil Gerson’s raw malice makes him feel a lot like how Titans act. Barely sentient, and just out to destroy as if it’s his nature.
Though I put Evil Gerson’s ranking as pretty low, that’s only because we don’t get to see him much beyond his fight and it’s likely the only time we ever will… until we see another Dustner pop up in a later chapter with more DtDE-like properties.
Mantle Boss (ERAM)
DtDE Likelihood - 60% Requires some Speculation
Slightly Passes: There’s no evidence for ERAM being or not being an object since we only see it in the S Rank game. However, ERAM’s dialogue changes in a Weird Route file. Meaning it watched the events happen in Cyber World out of sight or can read Kris’s mind – either option is unheard of for the average Darkner.
Likely Passes: Every instance we encounter ERAM, they only show up within the darkest rooms of the S Rank Minigame… which also begin played in a dimly lit room. However, it doesn't seem to vanish when the lights are back on.
Passes. ERAM has a bizarre familiarity with Kris’s history and inner thoughts as if it's been monitoring them constantly out of sight. They absolutely exist and are watching us from somewhere else.
The guy summons FRIENDS in battle and shows up in rooms where pink and gold eyes show up, in a game that is played with a pink and gold controller.
Darker than Dark Entity theories aside, ERAM is 100% FRIEND’S friend.
Even if ERAM was an avatar being controlled by someone physically in TV World, this doesn’t explain how it’s capable of killing Kris through their video game avatar in its boss fight.
Like really think about that. The environmental conditions set by the S Rank Minigames gives ERAM and FRIEND a physical form that can directly harm Kris and hold a piece of equipment.
The whole fight is screaming that it’s a teaser for future FRIEND and Darker than Dark bullshit to come.
Not to mention that ERAM seemingly stole the Shadow Mantle from Seam either from the Card Castle or Castle Town Dark Worlds at some point, before ending up in TV World.
There’s one more thing I’d like to cover with ERAM, something that could theoretically be a huge deal in understanding not just Darker than Dark, but Deltarune’s entire world as a whole.
It’s the fact that ERAM, our first true encounter with a FRIEND-like entity, takes place within a fictional game being played within a metaphorically fictional realm, aka. TV World.
Deltarune is very specific about the way we and the characters interact with the Light and Dark Worlds.
The Light World is treated like the real world where everything is mundane, teens go to school and do homework, and everyone has to deal with messy familial issues.
The Dark World on the other hand is like a game where adventures can happen and magic exists. Inanimate objects are revealed to have histories and personalities and they exist for the sake of the Lightner’s enjoyment.
Creating a Dark Fountain, in this metaphorical context is like entering a video game. Being immersed in a fantasy with shrunken avatars that play with NPCs meant that exist to give the players an enjoyable experience.
Doesn’t that seem eerily similar to plugging in a controller, and immersing yourself into a game? …Which is already what we’re doing by playing Deltarune?
And if doing that in a Dark World, wouldn’t that be the same as going Darker than Dark? FRIEND too is also likely an in-universe video game character from Cat Petterz.
Under that interpretation, wouldn’t these guys also count?
S Rank Minigame Enemies + HERO_SWORD
DtDE Likelihood: 50% only w/ speculation
Passes by Technicality: They’re video game assets, you can’t physically see them or feel them. In reality they’re just lines of code. They’re not real……… wait.
Passes by Technicality: By booting up a game within a fictional world, you are creating another layer of darkness. A window into another realm where new entities can be seen.
Fails: The S rank characters don’t seem to exist until the game is booted up. With one exception…
Forgot if they’re even DtDEs, are these guys alive?
In the normal Legend of Tenna boards, every NPC and enemy are being controlled by Tenna’s cronies. Which is why you fight them when you encounter them.
But the S rank guys? They’re not being operated by anyone, they’re just video game assets.
…but if you’ve played Undertale, aka. The game that insists that inflicting control and violence onto lesser, fictional beings should be somewhat discomforting + the game increasing your LV when you grind these enemies + Deltarune’s more self-aware Darkners considering themselves lesser, disposable toys because they aren’t real…
Where this isn’t ambiguous is with HERO_SWORD (Kris’s avatar) popping out of its reality with undeniable sentience to torment Kris and Ramb. In a suspiciously similar way to Chara turning on their player and haunting other worlds once they’ve completed the Genocide route.
Are the video game assets “alive”?
Probably not, but Toby isn’t going to excuse mindless violence in any form.
ERAM and the S Rank characters potentially being DtDEs add so much texture to the concept. Are DtDEs a lower rank of sentience compared to normal Darkners, being completely absent of personhood?
Should we be questioning what we’re actually doing in the S Rank Minigame in the same way as what we’re doing to the Titan Spawns if we choose to fight them instead of purifying?
Ralsei
DtDE Likelihood: 30% Probably Not
Passes: Ralsei is known as the Prince of the Dark and was shaped by the Grand Fountain. He has the uncanny ability to travel across Dark Worlds without being brought over (maybe) or turning into a statue. Has a suspicious knowledge on… well everything despite existing in a broom closet all his life.
Fails: Um. Ralsei’s right there. You control him in normal Dark Worlds. (Though he does say that he was born from the Castle Town fountain…)
Invalid: By failing condition 2, we already know that Ralsei exists in the normal Dark Worlds, not the third realm.
So far, we’ve been covering mostly malevolent or borderline unthinking candidates so to have Ralsei on here might be a bit strange. (Trust me I don’t want Ralsei to be E V I L, please.)
But… what even is Ralsei?
Ralsei object theories are dead in the water after Chapter 3, with most of the popular candidates (the horned headband and the green crayon) being invalid because nobody in Kris’s house/ TV World recognizes him.
For Ralsei’s character to even work, he truly has to have been alone for years in that broom closet. The Prophecy even confirms this.
And it’s maddening, because how does Ralsei know the Prophecy so well? How does Ralsei travel between Castle Town and other Dark Worlds?? Why doesn’t Ralsei turn into stone in other Dark Worlds??? How does Ralsei know the layout of Kris and Susie’s school????
WHY DOES RALSEI KNOW THE PLAYER’S NAME?? WHY DOES RALSEI HUM IN-GAME MUSIC AND MISREMEMBER THE RED FOREST’S NAME AS SCARLET FOREST BECAUSE THAT’S THE OST FOR THE LEVEL??? WHY WON’T SUSIE QUESTION HIM ON THIS???? RAAAAAAAHH!!!
POINT IS. Ralsei is absolutely not your average Darkner and the game is teasing the shit out of the player on that fact.
Probably the most bizarre detail on Ralsei’s biology, though dubiously canon, is actually from the unused, readable manual back in Chapter 1.
Why
Why does it say this Why is it written like that
And a pillar that gives his body form? Darkners already have bodies in the Light World, they’re objects. But Ralsei gains form from a pillar? Was he perhaps born from it?
Hatched from a pillar of Darkness… like a Titan?
Again, NOT a “Ralsei is evil” interpretation.
If anything, I’m pretty into the opposite. If a Titan is a manifestation of negative concepts, could there possibly be a Darkner that is a manifestation of positive ones?
And if Ralsei is a DtDE, could there possibly be some good ones that are with you in the dark?
I swear to god Toby, if Ralsei is just unique because he’s just The Prince of the Dark and nothing else I will
The Roaring Knight
DtDE Likelihood: 10% Absolutely not… but…
???: Susie deduces that the Knight is a Lightner since it can travel through both worlds and create Fountains. But… are we so sure? The Knight is feral, shapeshifts, and is coated in darkness. It can’t just be a normal Lightner.
Fails: Everyone and their mother seems to have met the Roaring Knight before the heroes.
Invalid: Doesn’t pass condition 2. And if it could travel the worlds so easily, it wouldn’t have been so late while Tenna prepped Toriel in a literal gift basket.
It has FRIEND’s laugh.
That’s it. That’s why they’re on here.
…
Ok, that’s not an insignificant detail at all, it's actually a very big one in fact.
If you’re using the same SFX as the biggest mystery box in the game, when already being a mysterious entity with mysterious physiological properties, your natures are probably connected.
Though it's clear the Knight is not a Darkner, it's hard to say it’s a traditional Lightner either.
The Knight acts very feral, it drools upon seeing the heroes and gazes on the Prophecy as if completely unaware of its surroundings. Most DtDEs are behave in very raw, animalistic ways which could lump the Knight’s behavior with them.
However, the Knight does clearly have a mind. It can plan. It can be angry. It can mock. And most importantly, it can pose!
It’s also a shapeshifter. The image of a knight with a visor is just one form it wants to take. No character we’ve seen so far is capable of completely altering their body like how the Knight does. (well maybe Bloxer but they’re a Darkner)
If the Knight is some amalgamated form of Dess, (99.9% sure she is and I’m not going to spend too long explaining this) we could be dealing with a sort of corrupted Lightner with Darkner-magic properties.
Could Dess have come into contact with FRIEND or the Darker than Dark realm?
She’s already oddly knowledgeable on Dark Worlds and the SOUL based on what she wrote for Raise Your Bat. And if there’s any good place for her to have disappeared to, that absolutely no one has found, somewhere deep into a Darker than Dark realm could be our best bet.
Though my entry on the Knight is pretty barebones with little direct in-game evidence, nothing is truly concrete about them as of now.
@MiaoGo06
Aaand… I believe that’s everyone I can think of. I feel like we’ve gotten quite a lot from this. Hopefully.
To summarize, here’s some of the more interesting observations this list shows about Darker than Dark.
There is an entire new ecosystem of lifeforms that only exist in the darkest rooms of a Dark World. Most act on primal instincts and lack sentience.
These lifeforms are all potentially representations of emotions and concepts in the same way Darkners are reps for objects.
The Roaring and Video Games within Dark Worlds are proper conditions for FRIEND-like entities to properly manifest and interact with both worlds.
The Dark Sanctuary’s dark rooms may be extremely close to what The Roaring will actually be like. If it does happen, Titans and these dark entities will likely show up.
If the Roaring does happen, will it be full of hostile creatures, allowing not only Titans but monsters like FRIEND and ERAM to cause some trouble?
Or
Or is it just another world. With bad parts and good parts?
Is it even sustainable for a SOUL to delve into the Light World, into a Dark World, then further down into a Darker than Dark World? How many more artifices of reality exist in Deltarune?
Is the Darker than Dark realm nothing but pure darkness? Or is there something else you can see? Something that can drive you crazy?
@DrawVex
There’s so much more to cover but for now I want this first part over with because it's starting to get stupidly complicated again. I’ll be talking more about this topic soon.
But for now, I want to leave on this question:
If Deltarune follows this hierarchy of reality with Darker than Dark being the lowest, most artificial realm:
Then why is FRIEND called DEVICE_FRIEND, when the DEVICE tag is specifically used for Gaster bullshit in the HIGHEST layer?
Now, I know a bit about Thragg's hype from constant spoilers but until today's episode I had no clue what his actual personality was like.
And to be honest... I wasn't too hyped for him.
"Oh boy, you thought Conquest was bad? Wait until you see Thragg!"
Problem is, I didn't WANT to see another uber sadist Viltrumite. I didn't need Mr. 1000 times worse, because Conquest fulfilled that role perfectly. Just seeing another crazy Viltrumite rip someone out just a bit gorier wasn't all that exciting to me.
But now?
Thragg being this pathetic, Hamlet-ass leader who has no idea what he's doing because the only thing keeping the dude on the throne is that he's "strong" is PERFECT for the Viltrum Empire.
Now, I'm sure he's gonna start blowing people's brains out by poking them next episode, but I'm so happy that our first actual experience with the big bad of the series isn't just another glorified Triumph of the Will level fascistic glazing like so many other empire-busting series usually go about it. Thragg is literally holding onto a past mantra instead of helping his team because he's incapable of owning his own decisions because all of it is in sake of a fossilized ghost.
THIS is the logistical endpoint of the Viltrum Empire.
This is what happens when all legitimacy is based on "might is right" for a millenia, long past the exploiters who made these rules to loot every system across the stars have died off. All that's left is this big, stupid baby that only knows how to punch hard, leading a suicide cult.
Holy hell, DELTARUNE: Seraphim from @blazingPhantasm is probably the best fangame/interpretation of the Weird Route's ending and the potential Kris vs Noelle fight that I've seen so far.
Not only is it extremely unnerving, but it's uniquely theatrical and visually creative in in a way that's gonna stick with me for some time.
Link to play: Please, it's not very long.
SPOILERS below, cause I have to say more:
Dude. Noelle as a Mad Queen, convinced the SOUL is an angel fighting Kris as a Queen-slaying Knight, pleading that the SOUL is the devil...
One using Ice magic and the other using Fire magic (just like the Dremurrs when they've been insecure about having magic the whole game)....
Then PLUCKING THE SOUL OUT DURING THE BATTLE WHILE YOU DODGE BOTH OF THEM FIGHTING???
I genuinely cannot wait to see how this interpretation holds in the future with the actual Weird Route.
In the 2013 F&C comic series, Prince Gumball makes a new sword for Fionna.
The sword comes with three wishes, granted by pressing the buttons on the hilt. Fionna uses two of them but keeps one.
In the episode "The Limit" Jake uses his wish at the centre of the labyrinth to wish for a sandwich.
In "Jake the Dog", Jake almost uses his Time Room wish to get a sandwich, establishing the obscure running gag that if Jake is given access to wish magic he will inevitably wish for a sandwich.
In "Graybles 1000+", Jake uses the magic wand to wish for a sandwich.
In today's episode, Fionna is holding her sword with the unused wish when Betty's crown-wish removes magic from the world, and in the non-magic Fionna World, the sword has turned into a sandwich.
Today's episode implies that not only does Jake inevitably wish for a sandwich, but actually "sandwich" is the default result of an unused wish.
Understanding this joke/reveal requires you to be aware of a very obscure running gag that has only occurred like three times across six seasons of the show, and to have remembered an inconsequential detail from a 2013 comic book that was never brought up again, AND to even realise in the first place that the scene in today's episode was depicting the removal of magic from Fionna World, which I didn't at first.
Fionna has finally completed her parallel to Finn. Simultaneously an admired hero who gives everyone else their happy endings but incapable of navigating their own day-to-day lives.
Toriel and Asgore’s divorce, the Dreemurr and Holiday split, Carol’s worsened coldness, Asgore’s firing and downward spiral, and, most importantly, Kris and Noelle’s feelings of isolation.
Carol’s plan + Asgore’s black shard is 100% related to either finding Dess or uncovering the mysteries behind her disappearance. Even the looming threat of the Roaring centers on Dess, with The Knight explicitly being or heavily related to Dess.
It only makes sense that “the promise” revolves around Dess and trying to find a way to restore everything back to what it once was.
But why?
Sure Dess is family, but the degree to which Kris is obsessed with this goal is concerning. Why would Kris sacrifice their new friends, their autonomy, even the family they have left (Toriel in all routes and Noelle in Weird Routes)? Why do they keep putting the SOUL back in when there’s a new life right there for them?
In fact, let’s address all of the elephants in the room with Kris:
What is this mysterious guilt that’s eating away at Kris in the egg rooms?
Why did Kris isolate themselves from friends and family for years? Especially Noelle, their next-door childhood friend, even while going to the same school?
Why did they discard the red horned headband?
Who was Kris before we took them over?
Kris’s goals are the most difficult and vague part of the story so far. It’s the mystery that is so important to the story that I’m convinced that we’ll only really find out in Ch 6 minimum. As result, we can only really make crazy leaps to figure out a decently compelling answer.
And recently, I’ve been obsessing over a very big one.
I think Kris has been morbidly depressed for years because THEY are the main culprit of Dess’s disappearance, and only they know what really happened.
Yes pack your chair, your honor, Asgore is innocent.
… Lemme try to get you guys on board with this one. This time, I’ll start with my best piece of evidence from the get go.
During the S Rank minigames, you might recall a strange moment in the Ice Palace where you have to coordinate with a black monster to activate two switches.
Once you open the door, you suddenly take control of the black monster and drag them towards hero_Kris… who kills it.
If you check the files as to what this monster is supposed to be and read its file name, you’ll find out that this black monster is NOT its real sprite.
The real sprite, hidden behind the black monster, is a black deer.
Juice Cube's New DESS Lore Hidden in the Files
Spooky isn’t it? Even now, not many fans have settled on a solid answer as to what is going on here.
Here’s another:
In the Dreemurr House in Chapter 2 and 4, if you “borrow” the 5 dollars in Asriel’s drawer you can use this money to buy food for Kris and Susie.
Try interacting with the drawer again and you get this:
This is not about the money. This is personal baggage.
Even without the theory, there’s no way not to explain this as Kris having done or believing to have done something to wrong Asriel.
This is not the only time Kris has displayed a mysterious sense of guilt.
In Ch 4’s Egg Room, where Kris straight up goes to therapy, the blue Rudinn tells us that the hospital is “a place where we draw pictures, and don’t kill each other.”
Hell of a phrasing.
Once you complete the Egg task and have Kris draw… whatever they end up drawing, you can go to the sink again and-
I’ve read a couple of interpretations that Kris either had some violent past in human colonies, trauma related to the “tail of hell”, or that Kris had some intrusive thoughts that they needed to check a therapist about.
What if even this is tied back to Dess’s vanishing?
What if what Kris believes they have “taken enough" from Asriel was their closest friend and possible lover?
What if Kris was the one secretly responsible and EVERYTHING that has happened, and has been living with the shame ever since?
@StephsArtLab
Let’s be clear here, I don’t think Kris intentionally killed or vanished Dess… maybe.
It’s more likely that whatever went down with Dess is 100% accidental Dark World shenanigans. Hence why she looks more like an amorphous monster than straight-up dead.
My goal with this theory is less trying to solve the Dess vanishing case (cause honestly I can’t answer the why or how it happened without sounding like an Asriel’s dust guy) but rather try to understand Kris’s psychology and how this reframing of the events can help us analyze Kris better.
From this point on, I’m gonna start discussing aspects of this theory in categories for better organization because we’ve got a lot of ground to cover.
Kris and Dess’s Knowledge on Dark Worlds
“Raise Your Bat” elevated a lot of what we assume Dess was aware of before her disappearance. She absolutely knew about Dark Worlds, the SOUL, and even its capabilities in defeating the dark with her song.
Come follow me into the dark
With your heart as the ark
Which shall shine you the way
Dess likely delved deep into Dark Worlds, not just to have fun adventures but to accomplish something greater. It’s eerily similar to what we know about Undertale Gaster, a significant person of that universe vanishing due to an obsession with darkness.
Occam’s Razor would say that her disappearance simply ends there with an obsessed tomboy falling into her own creation...
...but I think it’s worth mentioning that Kris is also WAY TOO familiar with Dark Worlds prior to them meeting Ralsei.
In Ch 1, Kris walks back in fear when they see the Dark World in Ch 1 open.
When we access a save point for the first time, we save over Kris’s pre-existing file in the Dark World.
Kris always keeps a knife around to open Dark Fountains. Queen and Ralsei didn’t teach them how to open Fountains, Kris planned the TV World fountain pre-emptively to set up the perfect opportunity for the Knight to kidnap Toriel or Undyne.
Ramb tells us that Kris and a “girl” used to gather several toys together (possibly with some knowledge on Darkners) to play make-believe. Many guess that this could be Noelle but the ambiguity makes me guess that it’s actually Dess.
*Time flies... Seems like just yesterday you and that girl had everyone here lined up.
Queen on her side, King on your side, Tenna in back... Oh, it was chaos, CHAOS!
Heh, only kids like you two would take a laptop home just to play make believe.
How is she, Kris? Are you two...? Well, it's alright. Everyone changes. 'cept us.
The Two Rebels
@KillerPrince930
Kris and Dess are remarkably similar from what we can gather so far.
While Asriel/Dess and Kris/Noelle were definitely the closer relationships due to their similar ages, they’re strangely opposites in personality.
Kris and Dess were troublemakers. Kris because of a passion for pranking people and Dess as a rebellious, free-spirited teenager.
Kris and Dess are the odd one out of their families, one being a human who is fundamentally different from the others and the other being a punk living in an orderly, mayoral Holiday household.
And lastly, Kris and Dess are deeply tied to musical instruments as parts of their identity. Kris’s piano skills are so core to who they are that playing it is the one thing they refuse to show us. In regards to Dess… her canonical sprite might as well just be her guitar at this point.
And then there’s this Tenna dialogue:
“Oh, Kris! Remember DECEMBER? Oh, that little musical prodigy! Remember when she'd grab the remote and swap it from cartoons... to that WILD music video channel Toriel FORBID you to see? Dess, rocking her guitar and singing along with those nasty, nasty songs! Didn't you all think she was just so... COOL? HECK! Maybe you could get her to come back and watch again sometime?”
Ramb and Tenna’s comments tell me that Kris and Dess were a lot closer than we assumed. It’s even possible that a lot of Kris’s personality was inspired by Dess, with Kris even sharing a “knight design” with many shared poses.
Kris and Dess absolutely shared some experiences in Dark Worlds together. Once again with the Ramb comment, could it be that the two brought a bunch of toys together to play with them in Dark Worlds?
Regardless if that is the case or not, there’s a really fun idea behind every Deltarune chapter being an escalated version of Kris and Dess’s childhood adventures - with two knights simultaneously DMing and fighting each other on the backdrop of a real apocalyptic prophecy.
How cool is that?
The Divorce
Sorry, can’t help myself, let’s make another big leap.
What if Asgore knows and even a momentary accusation is what truly caused the divorce?
Asgore and Carol fell apart after Dess’s vanishing, but I can’t see Toriel not giving a couple chances to him while in shared grief.
We know that Asgore retired from the force around the same time, either through unlawful investigations or committing breaches of power that he would eventually come to regret. But again, I still see Toriel slowly drifting away in the marriage age but not totally unwilling to support him through this.
But once children start getting into the crossfire, especially an accusation to THEIR child, that would be nuclear.
This would complete their parallels to their Undertale counterparts as well. A leader of the monsters losing themselves to their duty and a mother splitting over an issue involving children.
This doesn’t seem very plausible with how Asgore treats Kris whenever they amicably talk in the present, but I think it’s likely that Asgore would’ve just dropped the issue entirely for everyone’s sake. Plus, it is his kid, I don’t think he would’ve come to his senses and not try to assume a kid did it (unlike me).
Where I’m REALLY convinced about this possibility comes from, yet another community headache scene, in Chapter 3.
Why does Toriel’s face contort when the FUN gang manages to “beat” the Knight before losing but not when you simply get your ass whooped?
Gee, thanks for the support.
My best guess is that Toriel can somewhat recognize Dess being masked as the Knight, and sensing her in pain, brings back such horrible memories that it even affects her unconsciously.
But operating under this theory, what if Toriel was bothered by even a dream of Kris cutting down Dess because of a lingering suspicion that she NEVER wants to believe?
What if this nightmare is the reminder of a dangerous thought for a mother to indulge in? That idea that your kid would kill someone?
Not totally relevant, but I want to share just one more cool fact about the black deer.
See, the black deer isn’t just an unused sprite. It’s ALWAYS present in the scene. It’s just hiding behind the black monster as a result of a variable that can be turned on and off.
And this variable’s name just happens to be “toriel.”
Is she hiding Dess from us or hiding for herself?
Even if this section of the theory is totally off, the divorce itself has a really sad implication under this framework.
If Kris was responsible for this whole case, it would mean that they caused their own parent’s divorce and watched in silence as everything deteriorated with full knowledge of the conversation.
Kris’s Personhood and the Importance of the Red Horned Headband
Kris lives between many worlds:
Hero and Villain.
Light and Dark.
Monster and Human.
And it’s clear that Kris struggles with each of these dichotomies.
Kris is torn between their role as a hero in the Prophecy and the FUN gang’s friend while also conspiring against them in secret.
Kris seems to enjoy being in the Dark Worlds, but like every other Lightner, has to stay in their own mundane reality out of responsibility.
But most importantly, Kris doesn’t seem happy as a human… as well as a monster recently.
@deltarune-au-domain
I’m really obsessed over the detail of Kris abandoning the red-horned headband. I feel like this is a much bigger deal than just a kid outgrowing an accessory - rather, it speaks to me as Kris giving up their identity as a monster.
Like Toriel says, Kris felt insecure that they looked so differently from their family and community. You can tell this still weighs on Kris if you check the human book in the library, with Kris shutting the book instantly the moment human are shown.
Even if the majority of Hometown is fine with Kris, an adolescent’s self-image issues are always going to feel extreme.
Kris isn’t just a human, they’re the adopted kid in the family. The headband wasn’t just a way to identify themselves as a monster, it’s an assertion that they are not a stranger.
That they belong here.
That they are valid.
And interestingly, we know that Kris discarded the headband years ago…. Most likely around the vanishing yet again.
And so we go back to the question: “what if Kris killed Dess?”
What toll would it take on Kris if they had to switch families, uncertain as to why their previous community rejected them… only to live in brief happiness in a new family that they end up destroying? Wouldn’t Kris see themselves as an invader, taking the Dreemurs and Holiday’s lives away?
The eldest child missing, both families breaking apart, their adopted parents divorcing, their father left jobless, their brother without his best friend, their family friend left sisterless. The paradise these monsters once had, all gone because a human had to come along.
Not good enough as a human, not good enough as a monster.
Not good enough as a hero or villain.
Not good enough as the youngest child nor a brother.
Not good enough as a family or friend.
Maybe Kris feels that they don’t belong in ANY world anymore.
Would it be any surprise that Kris is so willing to surrender their own freedom?
My Choices Don’t Matter
As Andrew Cunningham once said, Kris “living for days at a time as a meat puppet of an unknowable and potential extradimensional player entity is really fucking weird and abnormal.”
Having your body piloted by someone else, regardless if it's an eldritch entity from a higher plane of reality, has to be an extremely uncomfortable, dysphoric experience. Instant NOPE.
Ch 4: Also they're Tom and Jerry
A really popular theory before Ch 3-4 was that Kris willingly allowed the SOUL to pilot them so they could feel like a hero, have friends, and interact with others without being crippled with the personal baggage in their life.
Even with the reveal of darker forces ordering Kris to use the SOUL, I still believe this interpretation is true to some extent, there has to be something seriously wrong with Kris to accept a situation like this.
It all comes off to me as a sort of desire for ego-death. Very fitting with how much of Kris’s is associated with self-harm imagery. (Taking out the SOUL, the bloodstain near their bed, carrying a knife everywhere)
@poisonousboba
I don’t think it’s just Dess that’s driving Kris here. I think Kris lets the SOUL pilot us because they don’t trust themselves with their own life anymore.
As themselves, Kris earned no trophies, made very few friends, lived under the shadow of their brother, split from two families, and caused an insurmountable suffering to Hometown if Dess was really their fault.
It paints the picture of a kid so wrapped up in guilt and shame that they’ve become barely functional enough to go outside and speak to anyone again.
A “Forced” Friendship with Noelle
This comment Noelle makes about her relationship with Kris really hits me.
Even if it was just to have Susie not misinterpret her relationship with Kris, it’s kind of a sad thing to say about someone who (obviously) was once so close to you. She has Kris on her wallpaper and keeps a plant named after them in her room for crying out loud.
It’s pure disassociation.
The way Noelle and Kris treat each other currently is like people who’ve only recently met after having moved away or even just a friend of a friend that visits once in a while, when the two literally live right next to each other and are in the same classroom.
They definitely don’t “hate” each other.
In Noelle’s case, she’s respected Kris’s distance for so long that it’s stewing up a mixture of resentment and longing.
It’s so painful to think of Kris as not wanting to be around her anymore that she has to reinterpret their friendship as never having been real to begin with or accepting that they’ll never repair it again.
But whenever Kris or us try to do something to make Noelle closer, she’s usually overjoyed by the idea of their happier days returning again.
But with Kris… I really struggle to tell what they feel about Noelle.
In the Chapter 2 segment where Noelle and Kris walk around the city together, they seem pretty happy yet Kris also doesn’t seem to react very strongly to Noelle's presence.
In Chapter 4’s Weird Route, Kris appears extremely tender and protective of Noelle, but maybe that’s because it’s a bare minimum decency to undo those horrific events to anyone.
A lot of this imposed distancing started from Kris. Though Dess’s vanishing has clearly scarred her, Noelle is still outgoing and succeeds as a valedictorian while Kris seems to just stay home or out of sight most of the time. It’s implied that they haven’t even met Asgore or Rudy in a long time either.
Noelle still talks to and helps Kris with assignments but they seem to just… never want to talk back for whatever reason.
Kris still seems very welcomed by all of the Holidays, so it’s not like someone’s keeping them from visiting.
Something’s going on here too.
@duplicarto
If Kris believes they’re the one who took Dess away, then there is no one’s life who has been ruined more by them than Noelle.
Under this framework, Kris no longer feels that they’re worthy of speaking to their childhood friend again… completely oblivious that it’s their secrecy and distance that is making her life even more miserable.
If Kris and Carol end up finding a way to fix Dess, I wonder if that would be atonement enough.
Not just to fix all the wrongs they’ve caused, not just the pride to be a monster again, but even as the right to speak to Noelle again?
Closing Thoughts
Another bummer ass theory huh? I’ll try to balance it out with another (somewhat) optimistic note.
There’s an amazing analysis by @alexisaisu I once read about Kris from a pre Ch 3-4 thread that stuck with me:
“Kris on their own is bad with people, kind of pushes pranks too far, has a deeply mixed reputation in town, etc. They're not comfortable being hugged, they're not good with starting conversations, they maybe would just kinda like to be left alone a bit…”
“In contrast, possessed they're a hero and leader and savior and able to do everything we ask them to do. The silent cool protagonist who can face any challenge is much closer to how the lead "should" be. Objectively, we may be "better" at the role.”
“But it's not what Kris wants to be. Their struggle is for the right to be a messy kinda weird human person who gets to hang out with their friends and eat moss and just exist as themselves.”
When speaking to Kris as a character, this isn’t entirely accurate.
But when speaking about the “soul” of Kris as a character, this is what makes them one of my favorite protagonists ever.
The framing device of the Player being a separate entity from the character we control is so genius because it makes us latch onto the brief moments in which our playable character distinguishes us from them.
Kris has their own opinions on people, a liking or distaste of the ways we make them act, a preference on friends on food, a pride towards their piano skills, and recently, a desire for deeper connections with others. None of which are things a corpse or a person without individuality would have.
The silly arguments on Kris’s gender or if Kris is an extension of the player or not, ironically what makes Kris so special. They are always at the risk either by others or themselves to be invalidated of who they are.
Yet, despite the lack of accolades or the belief they have any individuality, to many watching from the outside, it’s perfectly clear that Kris is 100% their own person.
